Money, Dublin and the GAA

[Milltown Row2]

Will look forward to the spin on this...

[manfromdelmonte]

Don't Davy sponsor the GPA?

[Lar Naparka]

The Mayo team are one of the few teams in the country not afraid to take on Dublin. Its the whinging Mayo posters on this MB who are only interested in weakening Dublin

Absolutely. If you asked a Mayo or Kerry inter county player what advantages do Dublin have over Mayo and Kerry that potentially impact on match results, they would mention travel and perhaps the Dubs playing so often in Croke Park. They know that individually and collectively they are looked after pretty much as well as the Dubs are and the money argument is a complete red herring. 



The only way of 'making it fair' would be to split everything based on political constituencies.  A proposal which wouldn't get very far!

Hound, IMHO you are one of the soundest posters around-- especially on the Dublin side. In fairness, to the frequent Dub lads posting here, the two outstanding traits to be observed are sincerity but also perplexity.
To an incorrigible culchie you all appear to be in  a permanet state of self-denial.
Definitely no offence intended but there's little merit intrying to justify Dublin's present dominance by harking back to Kerry's achievements or Kilkenny's in more recent times.
Forget about splitting Mayo or Galway to give poor Leitrim a chance, all of this is a complete and utter non-sequitur- a red herring.
What exactly do you think Leitrim will be able to achieve if Mayo or Gawaly are weakened?
Will it give Leitrim a more realistic chance of winning an AI?
If Mayo can knock the crap outa Leitrim right now, what chance would lowly Leitrim have if they come up against Dublin/
The biggest flaw in this exercise in what aboutery is that, in weakening the likes of Mayo, Galway, and, by extension, all other counties in the same position, the chances of any county being able to mount a challenge to Dublin are greatly diminished.
At any rate, neither Mayo nor Gawaly threaten the very existence of the GAA  as we know it. Dublin does.
Dublin have won 15 out of 16 Leinster titles siince 2005, the year the county first got funding from the Sports Council, aka Bertie.
In  2011 the Blue Wave initiative was launched with financial input from the GAA and Dublin has won 8 of the last 10 Alll Irelands.
Dublin die hards will say that money as had nothing to do with their unprecedented run of AI successes but, to outsiders, it's a case of anything that walks like a duck and waddles liu,ke a duck, being a duck.

He has a point. If we are handicapping, follow it through.

And nobody is saying funding is irrelevant. What they are saying is funding without a plan and the right people doesn't work. And the funding mostly goes into areas that traditionally have had zero GAA presence to broaden the games.

People bristle at empty soundbites and the not infrequent spite

TBF, all the frequent Dublin posters make valid points at times but the crux of the issue still remains-- there is no other team capable of mounting a sustained challenge to Dublin.
That's not Dublin's fault as I have frequently pointed out. Dublin play by the rules but in doing so, they have used their inherent advantages to move well clear of the pack.
TO t**ker with handicapping is akin to trying to keep the Titanic afloat with a couple of Band Aids.
Money talks and this is the language the GAA speaks. Attendances are falling and gate receipts are diminishing so the coffers are beginning to look bare.
So we have mickey mouse stopgap measures to try and boost revenue. The super 8s are a super con, Irmo anyway.
There aren't eight super teams to begin with and the end result will, with possibly rare one-off exceptions, be the same. A two tier competition is an admission that the GAA belongs to the elite top tier few.
The days of Offaly or Down winning AIs are gone, probably forever.

So to be clear, if Mayo just had more money they would take it to the next level? Sam hasn't been won bevause of resources?

Agree re the super 8's and hurling has failed in removing most counties from the championship

I can't follow you here. To me, talk about splitting Mayo to give Leitrim a better chance of beating some as yet unknown region is skirting the issue. Neither Mayo nor Leitrim threaten the future of the GAA as we know it.
Handicapping of some sort deserves some consideration but I don't think handicapping is what Hound is talking about. If splitting Mayo in, say, two, is equitable in that it gives Leitrim a better chance of winning games, then what happens in the next higher tier?
If you follow that line of reasoning, what should happen to Dublin in order to give half Mayo some chance of winning anything? I don't think splitting Dublin into its four constituent counties would be enough.
What about Kerry or any other counties with pretensions to greatness?
You can't just split Mayo or Galway and leave it at that.
Anyway, the future of football in Leitrim is much more assured than it is in Dublin.
I don't understand your issue with Mayo's resources either. Funding is not where Mayo falls down when comparing them to Dublin. Lack of depth on the bench is, IMO, where Mayo consistently lost out in recent years. A logistical nightmare comes next.
Mayo spent roughly €1m in travel and accommodation costs in 2019. Having to trek half the panel to and from Dublin up to three times a week was another disadvantage also.

I don't want Dunlin, Mayo or Narnia split.

You suggested that its just about resources, but I am glad you changed your mind. Throwing money at counties alone won't do a thing

I can't recall ever saying that.
It certainly isn't my intention to claim that it is. There are a lot more factors involved and money plays an important part in preparing a county, any county, team. Throwing money at any team won't bring about miraculous results. Money can help alright but it is a means to an end, not the result itself.
Dublin is desperate for money and if the likes of John Costello can be believed they could do with twice as much as they are getting already.
It's hard for culchies to credit that, given the income stream big Dublin clubs have, the profit derived from the club bar and catering facilities etc. Income that 90% oif rural clubs can only dream about - not forgetting membership dues..
Dublin clubs, however, have one serious cause of expenditure that doesn't affect any but the larger urban clubs in the rest of the country. They provide a tremendous baby-sitting service for hard-pressed mammies in their catchment area.
Jimmy Grey (Club President) said recently that over 2,000 youngsters are catered for at weekends by his club, Na Fianna. The u7 and u8s show up for summer camps and the likes and the older ones do likewise but also take part in club competitions. They are well catered for by thousands of volunteers but the expense is still considerable.
Okay, country clubs have many volunteers also but the crucial difference is that many parents whose kids go to the local club are club members also and pay their way via club dues. That's certainly not the case in Dublin
I've been dealing with Dublin primary schools football and underage club levels for more than 30 years  and the dropout levels are horrendous by any standard.
Possibly 1% of Jimmy Grey's thousands will be still around at senior level. The most the likes of Na Fianna can expect from the people they provide an essential service for benign indifference. That, I imagine, is where much of the development funding winds up - like pouring wine into a glass with a hole in the bottom.
I can't see any immediate remedy.
It may also explain why rural clubs, fighting for survival, are being left short  year on year.
This post has veered away from the topics we have ben discussing but  we are still talking about resources or rather the lack of them.
So, unless we discover a hidden source of wealth it's a case of curtailing Dublin's philotropntic work or RI ignoring rural clubs' desperate pleas for survival.

[reillycavan]

How's Cathal McShane getting on his job that he turned down Australia for? Working hard I hope. I'm sure the fact he was a Tyrone footballer and the interest from Aussie Rules clubs had no relevance to him being offered the position and it was just a coincidence.

Do you know if anyone else applied for the role or if it was advertised?

My son in law played a bit of soccer with Dungannon Swifts and Neil Morgan turned down a lucrative contract with them to play for Tyrone.

[From the Bunker]

How's Cathal McShane getting on his job that he turned down Australia for? Working hard I hope. I'm sure the fact he was a Tyrone footballer and the interest from Aussie Rules clubs had no relevance to him being offered the position and it was just a coincidence.

Do you know if anyone else applied for the role or if it was advertised?

My son in law played a bit of soccer with Dungannon Swifts and Neil Morgan turned down a lucrative contract with them to play for Tyrone.

What would your Son in law be on a week? £200? if even that?

[GiveItToTheShooters]

Dean Rock has been given a nice little no show job from a big stockbroker firm I see.

Stockbrokers don't do no shows.

Its a financial advisory job. Regulated up the shit pipe. He isn't there for show

Some jump to go from managing a leisure centre to being a financial adviser.

He's there for show, roll him out to meet a few giddy clients for a couple of hours a week.

Just like Cathal McShane?

[Jell 0 Biafra]

The Mayo team are one of the few teams in the country not afraid to take on Dublin. Its the whinging Mayo posters on this MB who are only interested in weakening Dublin

Absolutely. If you asked a Mayo or Kerry inter county player what advantages do Dublin have over Mayo and Kerry that potentially impact on match results, they would mention travel and perhaps the Dubs playing so often in Croke Park. They know that individually and collectively they are looked after pretty much as well as the Dubs are and the money argument is a complete red herring. 



The only way of 'making it fair' would be to split everything based on political constituencies.  A proposal which wouldn't get very far!

Hound, IMHO you are one of the soundest posters around-- especially on the Dublin side. In fairness, to the frequent Dub lads posting here, the two outstanding traits to be observed are sincerity but also perplexity.
To an incorrigible culchie you all appear to be in  a permanet state of self-denial.
Definitely no offence intended but there's little merit intrying to justify Dublin's present dominance by harking back to Kerry's achievements or Kilkenny's in more recent times.
Forget about splitting Mayo or Galway to give poor Leitrim a chance, all of this is a complete and utter non-sequitur- a red herring.
What exactly do you think Leitrim will be able to achieve if Mayo or Gawaly are weakened?
Will it give Leitrim a more realistic chance of winning an AI?
If Mayo can knock the crap outa Leitrim right now, what chance would lowly Leitrim have if they come up against Dublin/
The biggest flaw in this exercise in what aboutery is that, in weakening the likes of Mayo, Galway, and, by extension, all other counties in the same position, the chances of any county being able to mount a challenge to Dublin are greatly diminished.
At any rate, neither Mayo nor Gawaly threaten the very existence of the GAA  as we know it. Dublin does.
Dublin have won 15 out of 16 Leinster titles siince 2005, the year the county first got funding from the Sports Council, aka Bertie.
In  2011 the Blue Wave initiative was launched with financial input from the GAA and Dublin has won 8 of the last 10 Alll Irelands.
Dublin die hards will say that money as had nothing to do with their unprecedented run of AI successes but, to outsiders, it's a case of anything that walks like a duck and waddles liu,ke a duck, being a duck.

Suppose that the Blue Wave money went to the Senior Dublin team (although my understanding is that most of it went to games development).  Most of the team that went on to win Dublin's latest run of AIs were either in the 2011 panel, or were in the 2011 minor panel.  For reference, here's the 2011 minor team that lost the final to Tipperary in 2011:

R O'Hanlon 6; G Hannigan 6, R McDaid (Capt) 7, R Real 8; E Lowndes 6, J Small 7, J McCaffrey 7; P O'Higgins 8, E O'Conghaile 6; C Costello 6, C Kilkenny 9, G Ivory 7; S Fulham 6, P Mannion 7, C Meaney 7. Subs: D Campbell 8 for Meaney (39), D Byrne 7 for Hannigan (inj, 53), N Scully for Fulham (59).

There are a lot of familiar names there, who have helped make up the backbone of the team as the 2011 seniors dropped away.   So the question I would have about the claim that the Blue Wave money is a factor in Dublin's success is  how did it work so quickly?  Most of the players who have underpinned the 8 AI in 10 years success were already in and about the panel already.  Money assigned to games development was way too late for these guys.

If the Blue Wave money is going to buy Dublin success, it's going to be over the next ten years.  Not this past ten.

[From the Bunker]

The extra funding goes back to 2003!

Most of those Lads who were Minor (2011) would have been 10 years old then and starting out playing serious enough club games.

It is what it is! Bertie, Bailey, Sean Kelly, Croke Park, AIG, Costello, the Leinster Council, The GAA, they have all contributed to this farce.

We have joined the other professional sports, there is no turning back. We hide behind an Amateur mask.

There are levels of volunteers, but most of these operate in the lower echelons of the game.

We are only 6 months away from Dublin winning 7 titles in a row. And 9 out of 11 out of nowhere! Recent History shows Dublin struggled to make AI Finals.

What is going on?

How did this happen?

Why do you still get money if you don't need it or it makes no difference?

[Jell 0 Biafra]

The extra funding goes back to 2003!

Most of those Lads who were Minor (2011) would have been 10 years old then and starting out playing serious enough club games.

I'm not as familiar with the history of extra government funding as some might be.  I was responding to Lar's reference to Blue Wave funding, which began in 2011.   That's the funding issue I've heard as being a reason for Dublin's current dominance.  That argument doesn't add up, as I've argued above.

Stick a link up to extra funding beginning in 2003, and I'll try to respond if I can.  It's honestly the first I'm hearing of it, and a google search didn't bring anything up for me, except for the Westmeath's player letter referencing Dublin having issues that needed funding in 2003.

[Lar Naparka]

The extra funding goes back to 2003!

Most of those Lads who were Minor (2011) would have been 10 years old then and starting out playing serious enough club games.

I'm not as familiar with the history of extra government funding as some might be.  I was responding to Lar's reference to Blue Wave funding, which began in 2011.   That's the funding issue I've heard as being a reason for Dublin's current dominance.  That argument doesn't add up, as I've argued above.

Stick a link up to extra funding beginning in 2003, and I'll try to respond if I can.  It's honestly the first I'm hearing of it, and a google search didn't bring anything up for me, except for the Westmeath's player letter referencing Dublin having issues that needed funding in 2003.

I can understand what you are saying and I will also accept what you say in your reply to me above.  I am talking about the facts you quoted, your conclusions are open to debate as mine are also.
I have tried to keep mine to a minimum and let the stats speak for themselves.
I had forgotten that the Bertie/ Bailey deal was struck in 2003. (Thanks FTB!)
I can't even say that the money which came via the Sports Council oof Ireland, was designed for the senior team's preparations or not but the fact remains that the team's remarkable improvement in form began in 2005 to the extent that they have dominated proceedings in Leinster ever since.
As for the Blue Wave, it didn't automatically produce players out of the, well, blue. The minor players you mention were there before this initiative was launched  but their continued development since then has to be a factor in the team''s performance.
It might be inaccurate to link outside funding with the success or otherwise of any team's success as this  assistance might not go directly to the team's preparations but that's,IMO, sleight of hand.
Following on from John Costello's annual reports, the costs of looking after Dublin teams were discussed here and, while I don't recall offhand what they amounted to in any year, I remember that they certainly well exceeded those of any other county.
Apparently, Mayo came next on the list, its transport and accommodation costs were by far the largest item of expenditure.
You need also to keep in mind that the cost of looking after a county's teams are the same for every county in the land. A gallon of diesel for the Roscommon team bus costs the same as ditto for the Dublin coach and an O'Neill's football will cost the same in Dublin as in Kiltoom or wherever the Rossies train.
So talking about pro rata development grants as if the size of the grants should correlate with a county's population is missing the point completely.
Put simply, to prepare both teams to the same level of performance, the relative costs should be relatively equal.
That's the theory anyway but the reality is very different.

[Angelo]

How's Cathal McShane getting on his job that he turned down Australia for? Working hard I hope. I'm sure the fact he was a Tyrone footballer and the interest from Aussie Rules clubs had no relevance to him being offered the position and it was just a coincidence.

Do you know if anyone else applied for the role or if it was advertised?

Everyone knows McShane was given a cushy job to keep him in Ireland. At least we won't deny it. Every county will have one or two players that has the same benefits.

Dublin have a full panel who can avail what Rock can avail of.

It's interesting that you first sought to deny, deny, deny before then resorting to deflect, deflect, deflect when you couldn't argue the facts.

Maybe answer the question on Rock now?

[dublin7]

How's Cathal McShane getting on his job that he turned down Australia for? Working hard I hope. I'm sure the fact he was a Tyrone footballer and the interest from Aussie Rules clubs had no relevance to him being offered the position and it was just a coincidence.

Do you know if anyone else applied for the role or if it was advertised?

Everyone knows McShane was given a cushy job to keep him in Ireland. At least we won't deny it. Every county will have one or two players that has the same benefits.

Dublin have a full panel who can avail what Rock can avail of.

It's interesting that you first sought to deny, deny, deny before then resorting to deflect, deflect, deflect when you couldn't argue the facts.

Maybe answer the question on Rock now?

The man who wrote the book on deflection is criticizing someone else. That's a laugh

We've been done this road before. Do you not remember the last time you came out with your idiotic claims the dublin footballers don't work and they all get free cars? At least you haven't brought that car nonsense up again.

Dean Rock was hired because his new employer thought it would benefit the company and he's the right person for the job. That's how things work in the real world. I don't know what Dean's role will be, but he's not getting paid to play football.

With the way Covid, Brexit is affecting businesses and employees and do much uncertainty only conspiracy nuts would think a company would hire  anyone at the moment to do nothing.

[Angelo]

How's Cathal McShane getting on his job that he turned down Australia for? Working hard I hope. I'm sure the fact he was a Tyrone footballer and the interest from Aussie Rules clubs had no relevance to him being offered the position and it was just a coincidence.

Do you know if anyone else applied for the role or if it was advertised?

Everyone knows McShane was given a cushy job to keep him in Ireland. At least we won't deny it. Every county will have one or two players that has the same benefits.

Dublin have a full panel who can avail what Rock can avail of.

It's interesting that you first sought to deny, deny, deny before then resorting to deflect, deflect, deflect when you couldn't argue the facts.

Maybe answer the question on Rock now?

The man who wrote the book on deflection is criticizing someone else. That's a laugh

We've been done this road before. Do you not remember the last time you came out with your idiotic claims the dublin footballers don't work and they all get free cars? At least you haven't brought that car nonsense up again.

Dean Rock was hired because his new employer thought it would benefit the company and he's the right person for the job. That's how things work in the real world. I don't know what Dean's role will be, but he's not getting paid to play football.

With the way Covid, Brexit is affecting businesses and employees and do much uncertainty only conspiracy nuts would think a company would hire  anyone at the moment to do nothing.

I just thought it was interesting that you first sought to deny and when it became clearly obvious Rock had no background in corporate finance in either his previous work experience or in his third level education, you then sought to deflect.

Deny and deflect, the typical Dub reaction to defending their unfair advantage.

Davy are a billion euro investment firm. Hiring a lad on 70/80k a year is not going to make or break them. The thing with Dublin is they have huge industries there other counties don't. You look at all the financial services firms in Dublin, huge billion euro companies, all contributors to Dublin GAA. The banks have no problem handing out a couple of cushy no show jobs to Small and McCarthy.

Brian Fenton a qualified physio working in another ambassadorial role with another billion Euro company.

All these companies make millions of profit every year? They are not going to feel a hit on salaries to Dublin players, in fact they probably feel it's a good deal for their brand association and are happy to pay a guy a good salary to do nothing as it portrays them as a donor to Dublin GAA.

Contrast with a county like Mayo, I think they have a big multinational pharmaceutical plant in Westport which employs a few high profile players but the majority of their panel will have to f**k off to Dublin to find a decent job. Every other county operates under different parameters than Dublin.

Care to tell us what Johnny Cooper does for a living?

We have it there in evidence now of the disingenuous and deceiving behaviour you will attempt to engage in when it comes to Dublin finances. You will try and muddy the waters and twist the truth at every opportunity. Dublin GAA are effectively a professional organisation who will have well paid roles created for as many of their key man as they can by their huge array of corporate partners.

This is what allows them to work harder in the gym which Bernard Brogan cites as the reason Dublin are better than the rest.

Corporate Dublin.

[Milltown Row2]

Jesus lad, you can't say Dublin players get better opportunities in work when the Tyrone county does it also!!

Its wrong if its happening whether its one or 6 ffs!

Leave this subject alone as Tyrone are not squeaky clean also.

On top of that you have no real evidence that these guys are actively doing nothing in the roles they have.. How they get them is not an issue... Thousands of people get jobs that way up and down the country.. Not what you know, its who you know

[Angelo]

Jesus lad, you can't say Dublin players get better opportunities in work when the Tyrone county does it also!!

Its wrong if its happening whether its one or 6 ffs!

Leave this subject alone as Tyrone are not squeaky clean also.

On top of that you have no real evidence that these guys are actively doing nothing in the roles they have.. How they get them is not an issue... Thousands of people get jobs that way up and down the country.. Not what you know, its who you know

I absolutely can.

Most counties will have a few players sorted out with a decent number.

Dublin can sort a whole panel out this way because of the economy in Dublin.

As usual, you are there licking the hole of Dublin GAA like the good little lapdog you are.

They are a professional outlet competing in an amateur game.