The Many Faces of US Politics...

Started by Tyrones own, March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

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screenexile

My favourite part of the weekend was when FoxNews had a segment discussing Trump supporters (the right) being racist... (y'know because the left are all falsely labelling them this way and they're not).

The dude told the the black contributor he was "out of his cotton pickin mind".

But yeah they're not racist though 🤷‍♂️

joemamas

Quote from: screenexile on June 25, 2018, 12:24:36 AM
My favourite part of the weekend was when FoxNews had a segment discussing Trump supporters (the right) being racist... (y'know because the left are all falsely labelling them this way and they're not).

The dude told the the black contributor he was "out of his cotton pickin mind".

But yeah they're not racist though 🤷‍♂️


My favorite one was the time magazine cover.
But, once more let's not let the truth get in the was of a "fake" story
Unreal

J70

I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

whitey

Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)

J70

Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)

Part of the issue is that people are jumping on such stuff because Trump has demonstrated through word and action that he is capable of what he is being blamed for.

You are upset about the story that went around for a day or two about the child immigrants being lost in the system which turned out to be down to the foster parents avoiding the authorities. Well the reality turned out to be even worse, even if THAT particular story wasn't their fault. Turned out they were intentionally ripping young kids out of their parents hands and now they're going to have trouble reuniting them all.

But I agree. We shouldn't reflexively react to everything before it is properly verified. There is enough heinous, callous and destructive shit going down to focus on without clouding the issue with stuff that had to be retracted the next day.

But that's probably the way it is going to be from now on with social media, blanket shoutfests on cable news and the resulting hyperpartisanship. Obama went through plenty of it too, albeit much more undeservedly.

I'm actively avoiding the news these days. I commented on the kids thing last week because it was too appalling to ignore, but in general I don't want to spend my life upset over what that shitstain and his minions are wreaking on the country and the world.

seafoid

Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)
What counts is what the administration does 
The Kochs are in charge

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/2/5/16966726/trump-show

"Like many American political journalists, I spent much of last week entranced by the drama surrounding Devin Nunes's memo about the origins of court-ordered surveillance of Carter Page. Then when the memo's text was finally revealed, I found myself surprised by what a pile of risible nonsense it was. And then I found myself moderately surprised that I'd been surprised about this — somehow suckered into believing for a minute that there was a shred of merit to this dog-and-pony show.

Meanwhile, Friday evening I got around to reading the Wall Street Journal's exhaustive review of FBI agent Peter Strzok's text message exchanges with government lawyer Lisa Page, which concluded there was no anti-Trump bias or conspiracy there after all.

When I caught up on the rest of my tabs from the week I noticed something else. There were a bunch of articles published recently about things happening in American politics that are making a real difference in actual people's lives. Stories that haven't attracted nearly as much discussion as the GOP's bad-faith pushback on Robert Mueller and the counter-pushback from Democrats, but that have the virtue of not being total nonsense. Stories that, frankly, paint a frightening picture of the direction in which the country is heading."

But a huge number of stories about things that have a real, concrete impact on people's lives came to light.

Ben Penn reported that Labor Department political appointees spiked an internal economic analysis of a new rule governing the handling of tips received by millions of workers in the food service industry. If the suppressed report is correct, the rule the Trump administration is promulgating could cost workers billions of dollars in lost income.The Centers for Disease Control reported that flu hospitalizations in the United States are taking place at a record pace, while Vox's own Sarah Kliff reported on how Congress's defunding of Community Health Centers is creating a crisis of health care access for 26 million Americans.In separate CDC news, Lena Sun of the Washington Post reported that CDC efforts to halt new outbreaks of exotic infectious diseases abroad are headed for an 80 percent cut.Kriston Capps reported for CityLab that the Department of Housing and Urban Development is considering new work requirements for recipients of public housing assistance, measures that would impose hardship on some of the most deprived people in the country.Separately, Rachel Cohen and Zaid Jilani of the Intercept reported on HUD consideration of proposals to raise rents for public housing users.Yet another HUD story has reporters from both the Washington Post and CNN uncovering considerable evidence that HUD Secretary Ben Carson's son, who does not work at HUD, is nonetheless intimately involved in HUD business mostly in ways designed to benefit himself personally.Mick Mulvaney, who is still serving as acting director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau while Trump fails to nominate anyone at all to fill the job on a permanent basis, stripped the CFPB's fair lending office of enforcement powers.Alan Rappeport of the New York Times reported that not only has the payday lending industry won a number of regulatory favors from the Trump administration, they'll be repaying the president personally by holding their annual retreat at the Trump Doral Golf Club.We had two significant train derailments, even as Trump revealed his infrastructure "plan" to be essentially a giant magic asterisk.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

@Laurie_Garrett

Stop whatever you're doing and read the @WhiteHouse plan for complete reorganization of the entire federal government. I have tweeted some highlights, but honestly can't begin to capture the horror. Overall, it privatizes a lot, cuts, & consolidates power. (link: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Government-Reform-and-Reorg-Plan.pdf)




Laurie Garrett

@Laurie_Garrett

·

Jun 22

Replying to @Laurie_Garrett

Under the Plan, the govt sells off the US Postal Service, FAA, eliminates more than a 1/3rd of the US Public Health Corps, restructures all foreign aid & development programs, and places every single domestic program for poor families & children under a single welfare authority.

249

4.7K

4.1K


Laurie Garrett

@Laurie_Garrett

·

Jun 22

The Plan also offers a real estate bonanza for developers, selling off federal properties en masse. And it cuts or restructures all the fedl progs that are meant to educate people about their financial rights & protect them from bank & mortgage fraud.

90

3.9K

3.6K


Laurie Garrett

@Laurie_Garrett

·

Jun 22

The #Trump plan cuts R&D @NASA and all forms of alternative energy development are consolidated under a single DOE agency. A Dept of Welfare is created, and all forms of support for health of America's poor leave @HHS & go to new Welfare authority.




Laurie Garrett

@Laurie_Garrett

·

Jun 22

Net impact of the #Trump govt reorg scheme is taking everything across govt that is for poor & needy people and consolidate it under single budgetary authority, cut science all over the place, eliminate the Census Bureau, reduce regulation &, as this closing shot shows, #MAGA .
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

whitey

Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 03:58:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)

Part of the issue is that people are jumping on such stuff because Trump has demonstrated through word and action that he is capable of what he is being blamed for.

You are upset about the story that went around for a day or two about the child immigrants being lost in the system which turned out to be down to the foster parents avoiding the authorities. Well the reality turned out to be even worse, even if THAT particular story wasn't their fault. Turned out they were intentionally ripping young kids out of their parents hands and now they're going to have trouble reuniting them all.

But I agree. We shouldn't reflexively react to everything before it is properly verified. There is enough heinous, callous and destructive shit going down to focus on without clouding the issue with stuff that had to be retracted the next day.

But that's probably the way it is going to be from now on with social media, blanket shoutfests on cable news and the resulting hyperpartisanship. Obama went through plenty of it too, albeit much more undeservedly.

I'm actively avoiding the news these days. I commented on the kids thing last week because it was too appalling to ignore, but in general I don't want to spend my life upset over what that shitstain and his minions are wreaking on the country and the world.

I wouldnt say Im upset about the "lost children" story, Im simply pointing out the rank hypocrisy and selective outrage from those on the left. Terrible things happened under Obama but we didnt hear a bloody word about it, until they tried to pin it on Trump a few weeks ago

As terrible as the current situation is, one must question whether the Democrats really want a solution, or if they are enjoying all the political capital they are gaining from it.

From my reading of the situation, many Democrats seem to be flat out in favor of open borders.  That is not a position middle America is on board with, much like middle America is not on board with Trumps zero tolerance enforcement and splitting of families

Remember, you only need ONE of these parents who crosses with a kid to comit a murder for this enforcement policy to swing back in favor of Trump

screenexile

Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 08:08:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 03:58:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)

Part of the issue is that people are jumping on such stuff because Trump has demonstrated through word and action that he is capable of what he is being blamed for.

You are upset about the story that went around for a day or two about the child immigrants being lost in the system which turned out to be down to the foster parents avoiding the authorities. Well the reality turned out to be even worse, even if THAT particular story wasn't their fault. Turned out they were intentionally ripping young kids out of their parents hands and now they're going to have trouble reuniting them all.

But I agree. We shouldn't reflexively react to everything before it is properly verified. There is enough heinous, callous and destructive shit going down to focus on without clouding the issue with stuff that had to be retracted the next day.

But that's probably the way it is going to be from now on with social media, blanket shoutfests on cable news and the resulting hyperpartisanship. Obama went through plenty of it too, albeit much more undeservedly.

I'm actively avoiding the news these days. I commented on the kids thing last week because it was too appalling to ignore, but in general I don't want to spend my life upset over what that shitstain and his minions are wreaking on the country and the world.

I wouldnt say Im upset about the "lost children" story, Im simply pointing out the rank hypocrisy and selective outrage from those on the left. Terrible things happened under Obama but we didnt hear a bloody word about it, until they tried to pin it on Trump a few weeks ago

As terrible as the current situation is, one must question whether the Democrats really want a solution, or if they are enjoying all the political capital they are gaining from it.

From my reading of the situation, many Democrats seem to be flat out in favor of open borders.  That is not a position middle America is on board with, much like middle America is not on board with Trumps zero tolerance enforcement and splitting of families

Remember, you only need ONE of these parents who crosses with a kid to comit a murder for this enforcement policy to swing back in favor of Trump

OK I'll indulge this . . . who has said that and where did you get information on it? From what I've seen it's Trump saying that Democrats are for open borders not Democrats saying it themselves.

Also if they were in favour of open borders why did they not introduce this when Obama was in charge and they had the house??

J70

Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 08:08:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 03:58:34 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 25, 2018, 03:08:43 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2018, 02:16:23 AM
I don't know what the Time issue is, but I think less time should be spent on Trump's bullshit and and outrageous statements and more on the outrageous policies and actions of his administration. Not everything will touch people like the brutal treatment of immigrant kids and parents, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be highlighted.

It should be highlighted, but the Democrats are also trying to blame him for stuff that happened during the Obama administration. Overplaying their hand is fraught with danger.

As Ive said on here many times, theres enough real stuff to be outraged about, that theres no need to invent stuff. (which is exactly what the left is doing)

Part of the issue is that people are jumping on such stuff because Trump has demonstrated through word and action that he is capable of what he is being blamed for.

You are upset about the story that went around for a day or two about the child immigrants being lost in the system which turned out to be down to the foster parents avoiding the authorities. Well the reality turned out to be even worse, even if THAT particular story wasn't their fault. Turned out they were intentionally ripping young kids out of their parents hands and now they're going to have trouble reuniting them all.

But I agree. We shouldn't reflexively react to everything before it is properly verified. There is enough heinous, callous and destructive shit going down to focus on without clouding the issue with stuff that had to be retracted the next day.

But that's probably the way it is going to be from now on with social media, blanket shoutfests on cable news and the resulting hyperpartisanship. Obama went through plenty of it too, albeit much more undeservedly.

I'm actively avoiding the news these days. I commented on the kids thing last week because it was too appalling to ignore, but in general I don't want to spend my life upset over what that shitstain and his minions are wreaking on the country and the world.

I wouldnt say Im upset about the "lost children" story, Im simply pointing out the rank hypocrisy and selective outrage from those on the left. Terrible things happened under Obama but we didnt hear a bloody word about it, until they tried to pin it on Trump a few weeks ago

As terrible as the current situation is, one must question whether the Democrats really want a solution, or if they are enjoying all the political capital they are gaining from it.

From my reading of the situation, many Democrats seem to be flat out in favor of open borders.  That is not a position middle America is on board with, much like middle America is not on board with Trumps zero tolerance enforcement and splitting of families

Remember, you only need ONE of these parents who crosses with a kid to comit a murder for this enforcement policy to swing back in favor of Trump

There was plenty of outrage over the initial chaos when the big influx of unaccompanied minors started in 2014. I don't know where you're getting the idea from that he suffered no criticism. Difference is he dealt with it quickly and also processed asylum claims first and criminal proceedings second. He certainly didn't go the Trump route of tearing families apart or trying his latest proposal to just deport them all without any court adjudication.

I don't know anyone in favour of "open" borders. Nor have I heard any Democratic politician campaign in favour of it (correct me if I'm wrong). It of course suits Trump down to the ground to depict it that way as his extreme position can then, in the minds of his supporters, be cast as a counter balance to the perceived extreme position of the supposed open borders crowd. It's like the insane not-an-inch position of the right when it comes to guns. Background checks, assault weapons bans and limits on magazine capacity does not equal the repeal of the second amendment.

seafoid

Open borders were orginally a Koch/GOP idea to drive down wages and deliver higher margins to capital. They went with the export of industrial capacity to cheaper locations. More money for capital. Very successful
Now the GOP is using fears about a white minority to drive a culture war.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

johnnycool


thejuice

If you can't understand what is going on in the USA or Trump If you listen to some of the right wing (not the Alex Jones looney toons variety) political podcasts you get a pretty clear picture of which way the wind is blowing.

It seems to me that these people simply don't care anymore, Rachel Maddow and all these media talking heads crying on TV is what they have for entertainment. They're not even watching Fox News except for Tucker Carlson. Crying left leaning liberals is comedy to them not Colbert or Jon Stuart.

The fact is people have been grumbling into their cornflakes about immigration and if you give them a vote on it they'll swallow it hook line and sinker. I don't know why the left haven't picked up on this. Most people don't care about gay marriage and things like that, that the old mainstream conservatives tried to play on, apart from a sizeable but limited number of more religious conservatives. but for most people it's like handing a bald man a comb. They don't particularly like it but at the same time they don't care.

And I'm pretty sure I said over a year ago when I probably last delved into politics on this board that calling Trump and his supporters Nazis won't help matters. How's that working out? All it does is buy him more wiggle room because anyone with a brain can see the gaping chasm between arresting illegal immigrants (and holding their children temporarily in a facility while they are being charged) and actually killing mass numbers of people. That's why they are laughing. That's why they are asking "aren't these people Mexico's responsibility not ours".

Immigration and demographic concerns are the real boiling points of the political right. I'm pretty certain of the left had kept demographics in check they could have almost every other social policy they wanted with only a few exceptions in the USA ie guns.

By the way, I predict the Democrats in 2020 will run with Andrew Yang as their candidate. It will be his UBI populism versus Trumps Nationalist populism. His message plays down identity politics and aims his message at the out of work or struggling working class voter. Effectively he will be offering welfare and unlocking potential where Trump will be offering you your old job back.

However on demographics this seems to be a lesson the left seem universally unwilling to learn and from what I can see there are some on that side of things that like to pat themselves on the back about how clever they are but somehow were (and still are) oblivious to the political freight train that was about to hit them.

My simple message is to any political party is simply do not f**k with the DEMOgraphic make up of your country especially in a DEMOcracy. A government should never vote for a change of electorate. It is political suicide.

If you don't want the far right to take control then learn this lesson. For all the accolades people lay at the feet of Angela Merkel she has single handily given stimulus to the far right all across Europe with her open borders and migrant quota proposals. Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Austria and now Italy have gone to the right. They are hinting at expelling Hungary under the Lisbon treaty for not respecting EU values. Well if they do that allow me to predict that will backfire spectacularly as I get the feeling that others will happily join them.

France wasn't that far off really and when you look at Macron, his manufactured rise and where the money care from you really see it was desperate measures.

In the UK ironically perhaps we have to give a big thank you to David Cameron (and Farage too) for deflecting the energy of the populist right into the bucket of shit that is brexit. In fact the only other thing stopping the far right taking power in the UK is the hate speech laws which are starting to penalise some very trivial occurrences but I'm pretty sure someone is going to figure a way navigate the politically correct mine field eventually. Just like the AFD has in Germany.

It's not far off here in England. Tommy Robinson even went to jail over these kinds of issues ie grooming gangs. It was premeditated, he knew he was going to break the law he said as much in an interview not long before he got arrested. Now he has people marching in the street for him while Teresa May was wishing everyone a happy Eid. The anger among the English working class is palpable as is the contempt for them in the media, the political class and the middle and upper classes.

Even my own wife could not understand as I explained to her, we are in a nice leafy middle class area among independent professionals. We just smile and wave at our neighbours of various backgrounds but we don't need each other or compete with them for anything either. We have the means and the economic freedom to avoid them if we so wished. If you are in a poor area, with few options, you are competing with other groups for housing, welfare, time at the GP etc it's a different matter. Or maybe it's the Asian gang across town that beat you up or killed one of your friends. That is the grim reality from which this emerges.

There is a line trotted out that patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel. However I would counter that it is the last thing the poorest can cling to if they ever want to feel a part of society. It is that fine line of belonging that links those from the bottom to the top. But once those at the top betray that trust or render it meaningless then you risk alienating a lot of people. That is what we are seeing now in England.

And Ireland will go that way too I predict. It just needs the demographics to start shifting and if there is to be a projected 1m population increase by 2040, Right wing scare mongering aside, it is safe to assume a sizeable % of this will be immigration on top of the growing ethnic minority communities that are already here. Someone like Justin Barrett will be waiting in the wings for the right moment. It happened everywhere else it will happen in Ireland too.

However I think I am pissing into the wind because the left won't concede on this one. But the only thing worse than letting the right have their way on immigration would be to not let them and for that reason I think America will tear itself apart before long and the EU will crumble too or itself will become a right wing institution.

You may not be a left or right wing person and you may not like identity politics (or racism if you call it by its proper name) then your best bet ironically would actually be to try and live as least an ethnically diverse country as possible because that way people are less inclined to think about their identity, race etc and would most likely feel a genuine sense of belonging to the place they live in.
It won't be the next manager but the one after that Meath will become competitive again - MO'D 2016

whitey

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/trump-immigration-trap-cnn/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/opinions/trump-immigration-gop-could-still-win-jennings-opinion/index.html


People will believe whatever they want to belive

While I think the recent crisis wont help Trump, it wont hurt him as much as Democrats think it will

FFS his support among Republicans has even GONE UP over the past few days according to CNN

Lets see what happens if theres a high profile murder by an illegal in any of these districts where seats are primed to be flipped from red to blue.

Gabriel_Hurl