Is the Donegal honeymoon over ?
Cassidy's future in doubt after breaking 'omerta'
Tuesday November 08 2011
A large crowd gathered in Teach Mhici in Gweedore on Saturday night last for the Donegal launch of 'This Is Our Year', the story of the GAA season through the eyes of 10 prominent players and managers from all nine Ulster counties.
The author, Fermanagh native Declan Bogue, spent considerable time on the road with the 10 individuals, among them Tyrone's Ryan McMenamin, Fermanagh's Barry Owens, Armagh's Steven McDonnell and Cavan's joint managers Val Andrews and Terry Hyland.
They each had a story to tell. Owens was a central figure in the rift that divided Fermanagh, while McMenamin was dropped by Tyrone in a year when Mickey Harte endured extreme personal bereavement.
But the main protagonist is undoubtedly Kevin Cassidy, who topped a redemptive season for Donegal by taking one of the county's three All Stars 12 months after announcing his retirement from the game in the wake of a heavy qualifier defeat to Armagh in Crossmaglen.
Cassidy has a reputation for being forthright in his views and opinions. In essence, he doesn't hold back and that's why he made such engaging company for the author throughout the season.
Even before the book had finished running off the production lines, it had set off a timebomb in Donegal with the criticisms of the previous management team headed by former All-Ireland winner John Joe Doherty, which appeared in an extract in the 'Donegal News'.
Criticising their tactical awareness, Cassidy intimated that the Donegal manager had lost the respect of the players "not as a person but just their belief in his team".
He suggested the management were "old style" and rooted to their success in 1992. It drew a stiff response from one of Doherty's selectors in 2009-10, another former Donegal star Tony Boyle, who himself said they had expected a far better degree of leadership from the senior players. He also pointed out their record in providing top names to help with strength and conditioning and mental preparation.
Cassidy qualified his position in relation to the previous management at the launch by stressing he never set out to disrespect anyone.
"There have been a lot of things in the papers this last couple of days, but before anyone judges it I'd like them to read the book and see that I'm not trying to get at anyone, nor am I trying to disrespect anyone. I spoke to the two boys, John Joe and Tony. Maybe they felt aggrieved at something that appeared in the press, but we discussed it.
"I didn't set out to hurt anyone with this book. It's just an honest account of where I felt Donegal football was and the great strides made to get us to where we're at now."
If Cassidy has quenched one bushfire, however, it seems there are quite a few more ahead of him over the fall-out from his honest contribution to the book. Enough to bring his inter-county career to an end? Some would speculate in Donegal that this may be the case. None of his Donegal colleagues attended last Saturday night's launch. Cassidy had personally invited them all by text but, on Friday night, Jim McGuinness apparently instructed them not to go. It seems McGuinness had no prior knowledge that Cassidy was co-operating with a book and that he would reveal as much as he did.
That went against one of the core principles of McGuinness' management from the outset, the omerta that he sought from the players that whatever went on in their own environment would not reach the public domain.
He has apparently taken a very dim view of the content released. For him, clearly, too much has been said. This led to him asking the Donegal players not to attend at a team meeting on Friday night, to which Cassidy couldn't attend as he was returning from America.
There are conflicting opinions about whether the players were happy to carry out the manager's instruction. Even Cassidy's own Gweedore club-mate Eamonn McGee wasn't present.
Ironically, Cassidy gushes with praise for McGuinness. But while the level of detail is wonderful for the reader, some of what Cassidy does reveal will be discomforting for the management.
For instance Cassidy goes into how they developed a tactic to develop a "nasty" streak before their Ulster championship game with Cavan.
"We weren't bad enough. That's not going out and hitting off the ball, but getting in people's faces. That's what the likes of Ricey (Ryan McMenamin) and them do, get inside people's heads, put people off their game, extra stuff that we weren't doing."
The author relates how Martin McElhinney, one of the Donegal midfielders, asked Cassidy had he ever seen clips of Brian 'Wolverine' Dawkins, an American football safety for the Denver Broncos. Cassidy hadn't but looked him up on YouTube before training one Sunday morning. For him it was the missing piece of the Donegal jigsaw.
"It just jumped out at me that this guy was exactly like half of our team, a lovely lad off the field, but an animal on it.
"I asked Maxi (Curran) to bring the laptop and put it on YouTube. I wondered if there was anything of this that we could tap into because we were too nice... we knew we had to be more ruthless and (Karl) Lacey and (Michael) Murphy asked Jim if we could introduce something like this."
McGuinness isn't implicated in developing the strategy but Cassidy admits for the Tyrone semi-final he himself directed a lot of 'verbals' at Peter Harte, who was their free-taker. That's detail that McGuinness would rather was kept within the confines of the squad and now has Cassidy in the firing line.
McGuinness was in making a presentation about last season to the Donegal County Board at a meeting last night and loose ends were being tied up about a team holiday to Florida at the end of November. He could not be contacted.
But after tightening Donegal as a unit, removing the propensity for creating headlines off the field and cracking down on indiscipline so effectively, this has the potential to cause division for the reigning Ulster champions.
Cassidy was Donegal's hero with that dramatic late point against Kildare in the quarter-final last July. He wears his heart on his sleeve. But in McGuinness' estimation, he has deviated away from the carefully choreographed script.
The omerta has been broken.
Don't think he's in any bother with the manager. He has simply been kicked off the panel ;D
i think jim mc guinness who was one hell of a party animal during his party days and his eternal college career has lost the run of himself by banning the squad from the book launch on sat night after all its an amateur sport in kevins case maybe not jim so get real and lighten up its only a book and maybe the truth hurts and nobody got injured from details in the book
Quote from: skeog on November 08, 2011, 11:43:06 AM
i think jim mc guinness who was one hell of a party animal during his party days and his eternal college career has lost the run of himself by banning the squad from the book launch on sat night after all its an amateur sport in kevins case maybe not jim so get real and lighten up its only a book and maybe the truth hurts and nobody got injured from details in the book
not sure Joe McMahon would agree :)
Skeog with your views you would be best advised to avoid the management lark. Infact he sounds more like a Derry player, pity derry didn't have a player who played like him. :D
The most controversial dynamite in the book is Cassidy's belief that Donegal need to score more points.
Donegal at it again,
Does not surprise me, A crowd of clowns including McGuinness,
Not a clue,
They win a very lucky Ulster championship and DIV 2 haha Big Deal,
Pure luck they got to All-Ireland semi-final, Kildare was robbed,
McGuinness has not got a clue
The panel members must be in real fear of Mc Guinness.
It's hard to believe that they all allegedly "obeyed" his instruction not to attend the book launch, even his club mate Mc Gee.
I hope Donegal don't sign this man Brian Wolverine Dawkins - it will take their defence to a completely new level.
And still they can't win the allireland, only end up with the whole country shouting for Dublin for the first time ever. Time to forget the books and nonsense and concentrate on playing real football and not forget that they are amateurs at the same time.
Yeah Mountain Gael they were lucky in every single match they won this year ::)
McGuinness gone a bit far here but much ado about nothing I suspect.
Quote from: Mountain Gael on November 08, 2011, 01:07:24 PM
Donegal at it again,
Does not surprise me, A crowd of clowns including McGuinness,
Not a clue,
They win a very lucky Ulster championship and DIV 2 haha Big Deal,
Pure luck they got to All-Ireland semi-final, Kildare was robbed,
McGuinness has not got a clue
Speaking of clowns...
How does Bruce Springsteen even know Kevin Cassidy?
Any chance of a summary of the opening paragraph, im not reading all of that :-\
Quote from: Christmas Lights on November 08, 2011, 05:53:35 PM
Any chance of a summary of the opening paragraph, im not reading all of that :-\
First few paragraphs are largely not relelvant.
Read the 2nd half of the article- you'll get the jist of it then.
Cassidy was Donegal's hero with that dramatic late point against Kildare in the quarter-final last July. He wears his heart on his sleeve. But in McGuinness' estimation, he has deviated away from the carefully choreographed script.
The omerta has been broken.
Those provincial papers are so dramatic
I see BBC Championship have tweeted that Cassidy has left the Donegal panel following a meeting with team management today.
He's left the panel.
Yes Kevin has been told to leave the panel by a man who drank the head of himself in his younger days while he was supposed to be playing football.
Some leader himself.
Never had nothing inside when he was playing but kevin had plenty
Another right mess handled badly
Quote from: Mountain Gael on November 08, 2011, 07:38:54 PM
Yes Kevin has been told to leave the panel by a man who drank the head of himself in his younger days while he was supposed to be playing football.
Some leader himself.
Never had nothing inside when he was playing but kevin had plenty
Another right mess handled badly
As someone was alluding to earlier...
Takes a man to learn from his mistakes not to allow others to follow his mistakes! He broke the circle of trust!
Just like the mutants in X Men Donegal footballers have struggled to be accepted by wider society because of their strange ways.
Maybe if they had studied Bullseye from the Daredevil movies they might have went a bit further!
While unfortunate for Donegal this is great stuff to liven up the off season. Had saw an extract from Bogue's book on McMenamin at the weekend, looked good and this controversy will do sales no harm.
Difficult 2nd season for Xavier McGuinness has just got a bit harder.
When's the last time a newly crowned All Star got the road from the county panel. Some mess in Tír Chonáill :-\
Going to be ahuge miss for us next year :( Personally think Jim is oout of order with this one.. Kevin Cassidy should be entitled to his opinion & what he said shouldnt affect his place on the pnale. either should his attendance a launch for a book he wrote part off ???
He wasn't kicked off for attending the book signing. He was kicked off for revealing things that the entire panel had agreed theyy wouldn't. Fair enough call by Jim I reckon. If you all sign up to the rules then you need to live by them.
Quote from: RMDrive on November 08, 2011, 08:42:27 PM
He wasn't kicked off for attending the book signing. He was kicked off for revealing things that the entire panel had agreed theyy wouldn't. Fair enough call by Jim I reckon. If you all sign up to the rules then you need to live by them.
Yea sorry only read that in an article there that it was about tactics... suppose Jim was fair enough, broke the trust. Still think he maybe deserves another chance...
a load of crap its only an amateur game jim is away ahead of himself i remember him with declan bonner in a headlock in an hotel in tyrone after a awards night when declan was manager jim will need cass before season is over?
Some publicity for Bogue. He must be laughing nearly as much as when he is jumping up and down in the press box when Tyrone are losing ;)
Quote from: skeog on November 08, 2011, 11:43:06 AM
i think jim mc guinness who was one hell of a party animal during his party days and his eternal college career has lost the run of himself by banning the squad from the book launch on sat night after all its an amateur sport in kevins case maybe not jim so get real and lighten up its only a book and maybe the truth hurts and nobody got injured from details in the book
Agreed, McGuinness could do with stop moaning all the time as well. After the Cavan win, rte were disrespecting his team, after the Kildare game, Geezer got it. Loves himself, show a bit of humility - man.
T'is november, Cassidy will be back with Donegal before he can say cad é mar atá tú
Quote from: RMDrive on November 08, 2011, 08:42:27 PM
He wasn't kicked off for attending the book signing. He was kicked off for revealing things that the entire panel had agreed theyy wouldn't. Fair enough call by Jim I reckon. If you all sign up to the rules then you need to live by them.
Do you remember the Blue book from a few years ago ??.
Jim's the manager and you have to play by Jim's rules however perverse they seem.
If Jim's got a better half back to take his place, fair play to him.
Breaking News...........
Kevin Cassidy real reason for being put of the team was because he crossed the line.
The half way line :D
If Jim thinks he has a better half back in Donegal then his decision can be vindicated. If he hasn't then he needs to go and look at the egocentric manner in which he protrays himself.
Kevin Cassidy is one of the finest players in Ireland, a fellow I have met on a few occasions, he wears his hearts and his mouth so to speak on his sleeve. I think this will have a poor effect on the Donegal squad rather than galvanise them
Quote from: spuds on November 08, 2011, 10:14:53 PM
T'is november, Cassidy will be back with Donegal before he can say cad é mar atá tú
Seo nuacht on Tuaisceart. Ta gach rud trina cheile i dTri Chonaill.
Quote from: Wee Roddy on November 09, 2011, 07:57:38 AM
If Jim thinks he has a better half back in Donegal then his decision can be vindicated. If he hasn't then he needs to go and look at the egocentric manner in which he protrays himself.
Kevin Cassidy is one of the finest players in Ireland, a fellow I have met on a few occasions, he wears his hearts and his mouth so to speak on his sleeve. I think this will have a poor effect on the Donegal squad rather than galvanise them
I wouldn't be made about seeing Donegal Paul Galvinised
McGuinness goes ultra defensive again on this one. Cassidy will be back by the end of the McKenna cup, wait and see.
Cassidy has heart, work rate and passion.. qualities that were sadly lacking in McGuinness when he was a player.
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 08, 2011, 08:36:53 PM
When's the last time a newly crowned All Star got the road from the county panel. Some mess in Tír Chonáill :-\
Paul Clarke - 1996
Quote from: ck on November 09, 2011, 08:50:06 AM
McGuinness goes ultra defensive again on this one. Cassidy will be back by the end of the McKenna cup, wait and see.
Cassidy has heart, work rate and passion.. qualities that were sadly lacking in McGuinness when he was a player.
What a complete dungbag of a post, what has his abilities as a player got to do with his ability to being a manager. It very clear that there were team rules. Cassidy choose to ignore them for his own personal gain at the expense of the team. He sound smore like a derry player the more I read. :D
Moving on into a more expansive theory, is it possible they have agreed to make a big deal out of this to promote the book, kevins pocket will swell as a result. Its not beyond the realms.
If all Cassidy has done is disclose that Donegal decided to get more mean and mouthy, then I don't see what he has said that wasn't that obvious to the outsider. It was clear that Donegal had changed their whole approach under McGuinness and he had applied methods to do so.
Quote from: Man Marker on November 09, 2011, 09:50:21 AM
Quote from: ck on November 09, 2011, 08:50:06 AM
McGuinness goes ultra defensive again on this one. Cassidy will be back by the end of the McKenna cup, wait and see.
Cassidy has heart, work rate and passion.. qualities that were sadly lacking in McGuinness when he was a player.
What a complete dungbag of a post, what has his abilities as a player got to do with his ability to being a manager. It very clear that there were team rules. Cassidy choose to ignore them for his own personal gain at the expense of the team. He sound smore like a derry player the more I read. :D
Moving on into a more expansive theory, is it possible they have agreed to make a big deal out of this to promote the book, kevins pocket will swell as a result. Its not beyond the realms.
I wonder if there were any team rules in place when half the Donegal team stayed in Dublin after their draw in the championship a few years ago ?
I'd say Cassidy may be happy enough to walk away from the County scence.
Quote from: Bensars on November 09, 2011, 10:18:57 AM
Quote from: Man Marker on November 09, 2011, 09:50:21 AM
Quote from: ck on November 09, 2011, 08:50:06 AM
McGuinness goes ultra defensive again on this one. Cassidy will be back by the end of the McKenna cup, wait and see.
Cassidy has heart, work rate and passion.. qualities that were sadly lacking in McGuinness when he was a player.
What a complete dungbag of a post, what has his abilities as a player got to do with his ability to being a manager. It very clear that there were team rules. Cassidy choose to ignore them for his own personal gain at the expense of the team. He sound smore like a derry player the more I read. :D
Moving on into a more expansive theory, is it possible they have agreed to make a big deal out of this to promote the book, kevins pocket will swell as a result. Its not beyond the realms.
I wonder if there were any team rules in place when half the Donegal team stayed in Dublin after their draw in the championship a few years ago ?
Mc Guinness was not manager then, ya dope!!! You would need to ask Moran that question or probably Cassidy, he seems happy to mouth off to the press about the internal going on's of a team.
Quote from: ck on November 09, 2011, 08:50:06 AM
McGuinness goes ultra defensive again on this one. Cassidy will be back by the end of the McKenna cup, wait and see.
Cassidy has heart, work rate and passion.. qualities that were sadly lacking in McGuinness when he was a player.
Very harsh assessment of him as a player. He was excellent for us in the mid to late 90s, arguably the best player in Ulster in '98. Lost his way for a while after that, but who wouldn't given the tragedy he was involved in right after the Ulster final that year. However, he got back to close to his best after a few years. Himself and John Gildea gave us a very decent midfield pairing, something we've lacked ever since.
On a wider note, if there is an aspect of Donegal's play I find distasteful, its the introduction of the deliberate McMenamin-style mouthing off that Cassidy refers to. I certainly didn't like it when the likes of McMenamin would be screaming at Devenney or whoever to try and put them off. However, its seems to be an accepted part of the game now.
Donegal used to everyones second favourite team, but they almost managed to become the most popular team in the country in the space of 12 months. The spoiling tactics, ultra defensive approach and communist regime have decimated the goodwill of the neutral fan.
Big story about nothing, it's no big secret really, they talk trash to the opponent? Who doesn't?
I have heard from a few lads that the abuse at county level can be savage, from fans and opponents.
Either way it's Going to be interesting to see what type of game donegal will play next year, now that there defense game is not a surprise.
Beating your opponent while saying nothing to them is the best policy, and a healthy shoulder is no harm either, just to leave them speechless.
In today's excerpt, Cassidy admits to trying to get Connolly sent off in the semi, even though he didn't know if he had struck Boyle. Apparently you have to use every advantage possible.
Cannot support that and I would hate it had that played a role in getting us to the final. And if he is dumb enough to admit to it, then the GAA should punish him. I don't care how widespread it is. That type of cheating cannot be condoned or tolerated.
Very naive by Cassidy to admit to that.
He would be an easy touch in the interrogation room.
The captivating book that has the GAA world talking
Tuesday, November 08, 2011
THEY'VE been getting a little bit hot and bothered over a book up in Donegal, if you haven't heard.
Last week one of the local papers ran an extract from Declan Bogue's This Is Our Year: The Inside Story of A Football Championship in which All Star wing back Kevin Cassidy detailed some of the shortcomings of John Joe Doherty's management. By the time Cassidy landed back on Saturday morning for the Gweedore launch of the book after a week in New York, he'd learned one of Doherty's selectors, Tony Boyle, had issued a statement defending Doherty whileDoherty's successor, Jim McGuinness, called a team meeting to instruct his players to boycott the launch and refuse to talk to the media for the upcoming season.
While that furore couldn't spoil the resultant launch — with Joe Brolly as the guest speaker, it was hardly going to be anything else but a serious night's craic — it was unfortunate nonetheless.
Since the book was a fly-on-the-wall account of this year's Ulster championship, the author and publishers felt it would be only right to salute Donegal's capture of the Anglo Celt trophy by having a launch and night of celebration in the county itself.
McGuinness at least owed it to Bogue and Cassidy to read the book before so pointedly objecting to it.
No matter; one of the ironies of it all is that McGuinness is one of the heroes of the book, and while that might not concern the Donegal manager as how revelatory Cassidy was about the inner workings of the Donegal dressing room this year, McGuinness should bear in mind the book will only add to his cult, aura and his team in much the same way Donal Óg Cusack's contribution to Last Man Standing enhanced not just Christy O'Connor's classic book but the mystique of the O'Grady-Allen regime.
The comparison is an apt one because This Is Our Year is to football what Last Man Standing was to hurling, with Cassidy as its Cusack.
Over the last few years most of the major sports and its followers have been well served by books which offer a vivid insight into how elite sports people now work.
In rugby, Paul O'Connell, Ronan O'Gara and their colleagues graphically detailed to Alan English and in turn the nation how the 2006 Heineken Cup and 2009 Grand Slams were won. Hurling had Last Man Standing.
In the meantime football had only the accounts of Mickey Harte and Jack O'Connor to give us an insight in real time in book form as to what 21st century inter-county football really involves — and even then only from the perspective of the manager.
Bogue's book gives us an extraordinary insight into the commitment, fears and hopes that goes with being an inter-county footballer these days.
We meet the 33-year-old goalkeeper Mickey Conlan who packs in his job driving a bakery delivery van to try to make a Rocky-style comeback with Derry. Barry Owens returns from heart surgery and two cruciate ligament injuries only to find Fermanagh football at war with itself and that during a dispute Croke Park didn't know about the GPA never consulted the players that stayed faithful to John O'Neill, only those who walked.
Paddy Cunningham reminds us how little we know what's really behind the under performance of certain players; Antrim's ace free-taker went into his team's opening championship game against Donegal having been in hospital only three days earlier suffering with the inflammatory bowel condition, Crohn's Disease.
Dick Clerkin reveals the lengths Banty McEnaney's Monaghan went to in search of that elusive Ulster title, from all going on a radical Caveman diet to Clerkin becoming an overly-robust player, something he now regrets.
Ryan McMenamin isn't quite as apologetic about his own past misdemeanours but his likeable side shines through as does his respect for Mickey Harte; the moment in which Harte shows up in a team hotel for a Dr McKenna Cup game, just six days after burying his daughter, is just one of many captivating scenes throughout the book.
There are plenty of laughs as well, courtesy of the garrulous and philosophical Cavan manager Val Andrews and the hugely personable Cassidy. McGuinness and Doherty might not be happy with his candour in some parts but there's no one Cassidy is harsher on or more frank about than himself. He admits to trash-talking opponents and his own troubles with alcohol and how he is now estranged from his father who he sometimes sees stumbling on the side of the street, bottle in hand, as Cassidy drives home from work.
All through Cassidy and the book is raw and honest, just like football itself. For supporters who love the game and value a greater understanding of it, Bogue has done some service. This Is Our Year is an inspired title but his book could just as easily be called This Is Our Sport.
http://www.irishexaminer.ie/sport/gaa/the-captivating-book-that-has-the-gaa-world-talking-173162.html#ixzz1dDKQb8Ze
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2011, 12:24:16 PM
On a wider note, if there is an aspect of Donegal's play I find distasteful, its the introduction of the deliberate McMenamin-style mouthing off that Cassidy refers to. I certainly didn't like it when the likes of McMenamin would be screaming at Devenney or whoever to try and put them off. However, its seems to be an accepted part of the game now.
Distasteful gamemanship, blanket defence, systematic fouling and now a "kiss and tell" book spilling the inside track from a recent (nearly) championship campaign. They are Tyrone Lite!
Quote from: ONeill on November 09, 2011, 01:21:02 PM
The captivating book that has the GAA world talking
Tuesday, November 08, 2011
Paddy Cunningham reminds us how little we know what's really behind the under performance of certain players; Antrim's ace free-taker went into his team's opening championship game against Donegal having been in hospital only three days earlier suffering with the inflammatory bowel condition, Crohn's Disease.
http://www.irishexaminer.ie/sport/gaa/the-captivating-book-that-has-the-gaa-world-talking-173162.html#ixzz1dDKQb8Ze
That puts a whole new perspective on things. I look forward to the research into the link between Crohn's Disease and hiding behind your man waiting for a soft free or a glory ball over the top. I hope they can find a cure before next year's championship.
It just gets weirder and weirder...
'He then revealed his grand plan to beat Dublin, which came within 10 minutes of working as they put 14 men behind the ball for most of the game.'
i.e. They went ultra defensive...so Jim put the phones in a bag so noone saw that coming :D
Someone must have forgot to tell Martin McHugh because I distinctly remember him saying that Donegal would be even more defensive.
'Every single day I think of Paul Galvin' ???
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/cassidy-i-would-never-have-tried-to-get-a-player-sent-off-until-this-year-16075170.html
Whole thing sounds like a pile of crap cooked up for the xmas best seller list. Expect Cassidy back come McKenna Cup after a satanic ritual service in Gweedore.
Sheamy in red below
Quote from: Man Marker on November 09, 2011, 09:50:21 AM
Quote from: ck on November 09, 2011, 08:50:06 AM
McGuinness goes ultra defensive again on this one. Cassidy will be back by the end of the McKenna cup, wait and see.
Cassidy has heart, work rate and passion.. qualities that were sadly lacking in McGuinness when he was a player.
What a complete dungbag of a post, what has his abilities as a player got to do with his ability to being a manager. It very clear that there were team rules. Cassidy choose to ignore them for his own personal gain at the expense of the team. He sound smore like a derry player the more I read. :D
Moving on into a more expansive theory, is it possible they have agreed to make a big deal out of this to promote the book, Kevins pocket will swell as a result. Its not beyond the realms.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/cassidy-i-would-never-have-tried-to-get-a-player-sent-off-until-this-year-16075170.html#ixzz1dDpDZtDW
"Every single day I think of Paul Galvin. I think he is the best looking wing-forward in the country and if we get to the All-Ireland final I hope we get them.
"I take a lot of pride in my own personal appearance and I want to come up against him. Every single day I think of him.
"If I'm at training and things aren't going well enough for me or even if I am training on my own and I want to get another few runs, I just think of him."
Truly bizarre. Even without my adding/changing just two words to make the meaning clearer (looking and appearance for the record ;)). I didn't touch "training" as I think that might be an intentional Mills-and-Boon-esque euphemism anyway... :o
Quote from: Man Marker on November 09, 2011, 03:32:00 PM
Sheamy in red below
Quote from: Man Marker on November 09, 2011, 09:50:21 AM
Quote from: ck on November 09, 2011, 08:50:06 AM
McGuinness goes ultra defensive again on this one. Cassidy will be back by the end of the McKenna cup, wait and see.
Cassidy has heart, work rate and passion.. qualities that were sadly lacking in McGuinness when he was a player.
What a complete dungbag of a post, what has his abilities as a player got to do with his ability to being a manager. It very clear that there were team rules. Cassidy choose to ignore them for his own personal gain at the expense of the team. He sound smore like a derry player the more I read. :D
Moving on into a more expansive theory, is it possible they have agreed to make a big deal out of this to promote the book, Kevins pocket will swell as a result. Its not beyond the realms.
yeah, saw that before MM. Just agreeing. It's the standard book selling thing. We had Jack O'Connor and Dara O'Se, we had Donal Og campin it up round Leeside etc etc.
Erm, and how is Kevin going to make any money out of this?
Quote from: ONeill on November 09, 2011, 04:52:47 PM
Erm, and how is Kevin going to make any money out of this?
Exactly, its the author and the publishers who will most benefit. Sure Cassidy is only one of 9 contributors to the book. Could be that its just his style to shoot straight from the hip. I'm sure he didn't think 'to hell with the dressing room omerta if I can get a quick buck out of this book'
Why would you tell anyone that you were trying to get a man sent off? I think Kevin better just stop talking before it gets messy.
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2011, 12:52:32 PM
In today's excerpt, Cassidy admits to trying to get Connolly sent off in the semi, even though he didn't know if he had struck Boyle. Apparently you have to use every advantage possible.
Cannot support that and I would hate it had that played a role in getting us to the final. And if he is dumb enough to admit to it, then the GAA should punish him. I don't care how widespread it is. That type of cheating cannot be condoned or tolerated.
Fair-minded as always. Sound man, J70 ;)
What a hanlin'.
"I knew if we watched Donegal for long enough this year, they'd finally do somehting entertaining," a southern pal quipped today.
I hope this is just a storm in a teacup, that McGuinness and Cassidy can sit down in the New Year and sort it out. Whether both men would be willing to do that is moot. Cassidy must be very sore about it. After all the effort he's put in since the manager bent his ear to come out of retirement, he gets dumped over a non-event like this.
I have only read the extracts of the book published in the press (it's sold out in my local bookshop!), but from what I can gather it's a complete overreaction from the manager. Are we really to believe that what's in this book will be more revealing that any smart manager will have seen with his own eyes in Donegal's performances this year?
As to Cassidy profiting from book sales, well that's just laughable. He might have got the odd cup of tea and a dinner with the writer. That'll be it.
The journalist who wrote it won't even make much on the back of it, other than a tiny royalty per copy sold. (Less than £1 per copy, I'd guess). The publisher won't even make much out of it. They'll get less than half of the cover price, and they will have had to pay the expenses (printing, design etc) out of their share.
Book distributors (Easons or WH Smith or Amazon or whoever) will take anything up to 60% of the cover price. They'll make a few quid from extra sales, but they'd make more profit from one day sales of Peter Kay's or Jordan's latest book than they'll make from all their GAA books combined.
The truth is, books sold exclusively in Ireland don't make much money. More of them probably lose money than make it and publishers are taking a chance every time they publish a new book.
I predict that this book will sell out its initial print run. And the publishers' big problem will be to get a reprint done and distributed in time for Christmas.
And after a couple of defeats for Donegal in the NFL Division 1 next spring, all the talk will be about the need to bring Cassidy back.
This time last year, McGuinness figured he needed Cassidy if he was to win Ulster. Cassidy had arguably his best ever season in 2011. Nothing has changed since. If Donegal are to build on 2011 - and win an All-Ireland - they need someone of Kevin's calibre on board.
I hope the break over the next couple of months serves his body well (he's 30 now). I hope he can put the humiliation this has visited upon him behind them. And I hope he's back in time for Breifne Park next May.
I think donegal are going to implode next season. This crazy stuff mcguinness is at is ridiculous. Who the hell does he think he is banning players from attending book opening, gagging players from giving info which is mildly interesting but hardly incredible. I have a contact involved in their panel and he has a load of them told to go to the gym 3 nights a week under supervision of a rugby trainer. They were told to be at this 3 weeks before the county final. He has fitness tests planned for them. I've been told a lot if them are sick of it and a few are skipping sessions which is not going down well. Mcguinness is going too far imo, these lads need to have some freedom and they don't need a 2nd father telling them what to do in their own time.
Typical dub - believe all the hype.
By the way can anyone remember the little blue book, battle of omagh etc. Short memories.
"THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!"
Jesus the over reaction about Donegal here is ridiculous lads! Greece won the Euros a few years ago playing a shite brand of football, Jose Mourinho has won titles playing shite football but in the end the teams like Barcelona come along and restore faith in the world. What McGuinness did is no worse than what the boul' Trap is doing with Ireland (And will be given the freedom of Dublin should they qualify for the Euros).
People need to relax and realise that fads liket these will happen and upset the applecart for a while but quality teams will undoubtedly overcome it!!
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 09:43:18 AM
"THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!"
Jesus the over reaction about Donegal here is ridiculous lads! Greece won the Euros a few years ago playing a shite brand of football, Jose Mourinho has won titles playing shite football but in the end the teams like Barcelona come along and restore faith in the world. What McGuinness did is no worse than what the boul' Trap is doing with Ireland (And will be given the freedom of Dublin should they qualify for the Euros).
People need to relax and realise that fads liket these will happen and upset the applecart for a while but quality teams will undoubtedly overcome it!!
Screenexile, I dont know about Donegal, but I am definitely overreacting about your avatar... I am looking at it with horror :o Is that your child? Do you have children?
Lol I like it!
It's nothing to do with me I stole it off the "animated gifs" thread on the Non-GAA section. The best of them by a long way!
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 11:07:42 AM
Lol I like it!
It's nothing to do with me I stole it off the "animated gifs" thread on the Non-GAA section. The best of them by a long way!
You don't have children or you're more disturbed than Cassidy then... ;)
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 10, 2011, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 11:07:42 AM
Lol I like it!
It's nothing to do with me I stole it off the "animated gifs" thread on the Non-GAA section. The best of them by a long way!
You don't have children or you're more disturbed than Cassidy then... ;)
I think its pretty purrr avatar!
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 10, 2011, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 11:07:42 AM
Lol I like it!
It's nothing to do with me I stole it off the "animated gifs" thread on the Non-GAA section. The best of them by a long way!
You don't have children or you're more disturbed than Cassidy then... ;)
If he's big enough to dish it out he's good enough to take it in return!!!
Whether Cassidy has revealed things about the Donegal campaign that we already know (or could work out) is not the point. Forget about all the parochial overblown hype about "omertas" and "vows of silence" sh*te (should Cassidy expect a donkey's head in his bed?). Bottom line is he broke a trust for his own personal gain, plain and simple. Whether that gain was money, personal glory, or a better chance of getting off with Galvin, he went on a solo run when it was agreed there should be 14 men behind the ball, as it were. He had to walk or be pushed, squads can't function with that level of distrust.
What is more disturbing is what it implies. He wants us to know...
- He idolises McMenamin and Galvin and their on-the-edge nasty tendencies. He "thinks" about Galvin everyday FFS ???
- He wants to emulate the tough-man, ultra hard hitting Brian 'Wolverine' Dawkins.
Yet, when he suspects that Connolly might have struck Bambi Boyle he wants us to believe that his instinctive reaction was to prance about like a soccer pansy figuratively waving a red card and thinking about the final? I have looked at plenty of Brian 'Wolverine' Dawkins clips and in not one does he prance about like aforesaid pansy. Any, self-respecting red-meat-eating Gweedore man worth his salt (and Cassidy was king of them until this year) would have instinctively floored Connolly with a shoulder. I said it at the time on here, I think the Connolly sending off incident was premeditated and rehearsed. Just another cynical gameplay to be rolled out if and when the opportunity arose or could be engineered. Look it again, Boyle, Cassidy and Kavanagh's roles in that wee cameo are not at all natural or convincing.
Cassidy is a tool but not the sharpest tool - that is clear. He didn't make up a masterplan all on his own. He didn't just wake up the morning of the Tyrone match and decide on the spur of the moment that he would get in Red Peter's face like he's never done before. Unless maybe McMenamin and Galvin spoke to him in a dream?
There is something distasteful, cynical, and corrupt at the core of the Donegal Project and the finger of suspicion is pointing firmly at McGuinness and his henchman Gallagher.
I am looking forward to watching the wheels coming off, one wheel at a time ;D
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 11:18:07 AM
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 10, 2011, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2011, 11:07:42 AM
Lol I like it!
It's nothing to do with me I stole it off the "animated gifs" thread on the Non-GAA section. The best of them by a long way!
You don't have children or you're more disturbed than Cassidy then... ;)
If he's big enough to dish it out he's good enough to take it in return!!!
You're not a parent then. A priest?
big exclusive in gaelic life...wow...never saw that coming ;D
http://www.gaeliclife.com/2011/11/10/cassidy-speaks/
nothing contrived here folks. Just like this photo...
(http://www.gaeliclife.com/files/2011/11/Kevin-Cassidy-Speaks.jpg)
Quote from: sheamy on November 10, 2011, 11:29:38 AM
big exclusive in gaelic life...wow...never saw that coming ;D
http://www.gaeliclife.com/2011/11/10/cassidy-speaks/
nothing contrived here folks. Just like this photo...
(http://www.gaeliclife.com/files/2011/11/Kevin-Cassidy-Speaks.jpg)
That photo looks like it's been taken off Paul Galvin's webcam. Is Cassidy Donegal's answer to Jordan? (and I don't mean Philip). Will he be releasing a new autobiography every 18 months too?
No big deal is right.
Cassdy spilled the beans.
Some people on here say he did it for personal gain, i.e money. No chance - Cassidy won't get a bob out of it.
Mc Guinness meanwhle continues to collect his salary from his full time job.
Peope on here are saying that Cassidy "sgned up" to a set of rules and he broke them - ok then, let's see what he did sign up - Cassidy was playing senior football with Donegal - a part time, amateur sport - we;re talkng about t as if he is some sort of professonal footballer who s paid thousands a week, who has some big contract. Tme for a reality check !
It's simple. It's a love triangle gone wrong...Cassidy and McGuinness were daddy and Gallagher mummy. Cass kept pining for Galvin so Rory got upset and threw the 'toys' out of the bed.
Quote from: orangeman on November 10, 2011, 11:48:54 AM
No big deal is right.
No argument from me. But it is fun to talk about.
Quote
Cassdy spilled the beans.
Yep
Quote
Some people on here say he did it for personal gain, i.e money.
More than one way to define personal gain - see above. He did it for some reason though.
Quote
No chance - Cassidy won't get a bob out of it.
And you know this how? And for the Gaelic Life article?
Quote
Mc Guinness meanwhle continues to collect his salary from his full time job.
huh? ??? And what's that got to do with the price of corn? I don't know if Cassidy is working, but he would continue to collect his salary too if he is.
Quote
Peope on here are saying that Cassidy "sgned up" to a set of rules and he broke them - ok then, let's see what he did sign up - Cassidy was playing senior football with Donegal - a part time, amateur sport - we;re talkng about t as if he is some sort of professonal footballer who s paid thousands a week, who has some big contract. Tme for a reality check !
I don't know what the amount of money has to do with anything or whether a contract is "big", or not, matters, but yeah, Cassidy can do and say what he wants as an amateur (within the law of the land). But so can McGuinness as manager - or would you not give him the same free will rights? Cassidy has no "right" to play for Donegal, and McGuinness doesn't have to pick him, that's the reality check.
Gaelic Life ?? We're not talking the News of the World or Sunday Times ( no disrespect to the GL ) but I'd be very surprised if he was getting much if anything from this article.
Cassidy isn't getting paid to play for Donegal - Mc Guinness may well be getting legitimate expenses to do the job ( happy now ?? ) - does Mc Guinness's job description say that he can kick anybody off the panel as he sees fit ?. Or is he operating his own set of rules that suit him ( which the players might or might not have been aware of ) ?. When Mc Guinness went back looking Cassidy to kick ball for Doengal, I'd be amazed if he sat him down and gave him ( and the rest of the panel ) a set of rules, one of which was that you're not allowed to speak to the press.
You're right - Mc Guinness doesn't have to pick him. Jim has built up quite a reputation and clearly sees that the Cassidy story has tarnished his and Donegal's image.
All this publicity might keep the Gaelic Life afloat for another few weeks
Quote from: orangeman on November 10, 2011, 12:44:06 PM
Gaelic Life ?? We're not talking the News of the World or Sunday Times ( no disrespect to the GL ) but I'd be very surprised if he was getting much if anything from this article.
So maybe a bob then?
Quote
Mc Guinness is being paid to manage Donegal - does Mc Guinness's job description say that he can kick anybody off the panel as he sees fit ?
I would have thought most managers with any self-respect, whether paid or not, would expect to have that discretion whether it is explicity laid out or not.
Time for a poll on whether Mc Guinness was right to kick Cassidy off the panel ??
What do you think ?
Kevin Cassidy Statement In Full:
"It is with great regret that following the events of Tuesday, it appears my inter-county career is over.
"From my debut in 2002, I always took an immense pride and gave my all when playing for Donegal, and I hope supporters appreciate that. I have also been blessed with the boys I played with and I wish them all the very best of luck with their efforts in the future.
"This time last year I had retired, but was persuaded back to give one more year for Donegal. It meant that I left my wife Sarah at home most nights with our new-born twins, Aoife and Nia. It was a huge commitment for Sarah to make as well, and given some reflection on recent days, it was one that would have been selfish of me to ask again for in 2012.
"Our achievements this year were incredible and the times we shared will stay with me forever. It was an incredible time to be a Donegal player. At the end of the season there was a sense of unfinished business, but due to present circumstances it will remain as that for me.
"Last January, Declan Bogue approached me and asked me to take part in the book, 'This Is Our Year.' It was something I was very interested in as I thought it was a good idea.
"I didn't run it by the team management because I was totally focussed on our goals for the year ahead, and didn't feel it would impact on the team. I don't believe it affected my performances.
"Anything I talked about in the book was only my opinion on where Donegal were coming from, and how we needed to change to reach the heights we did. I never intended any disrespect to any opponents or Donegal people.
"I don't regret my part in the book. It was with total honesty that I approached it and I don't believe I revealed any secrets within the squad. Anything that I discussed had been said before the publication.
"But it should also be noted that I was only one of ten representatives from the counties involved.
"While I am sad to leave the Donegal panel, I am looking forward to spending more time with my family and committing to Gaoth Dobhair CLG. I remain a Donegal man and supporter and wish the county all the success in the future.
"I wish to thank every manager I have ever played under, right until this point. I learned so much from them and appreciated all their efforts. My respect for them is apparent in the book, when read in its' full context
There will be no further media comment on this.
Thank you."
Kevin Cassidy.
Any suggestions on the advice being offered ??
(http://img.rasset.ie/00053573189r.jpg)
Quote from: orangeman on November 10, 2011, 01:31:40 PM
Any suggestions on the advice being offered ??
(http://img.rasset.ie/00053573189r.jpg)
Who's Your Daddy now?
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 10, 2011, 11:25:55 AM
Whether Cassidy has revealed things about the Donegal campaign that we already know (or could work out) is not the point. Forget about all the parochial overblown hype about "omertas" and "vows of silence" sh*te (should Cassidy expect a donkey's head in his bed?). Bottom line is he broke a trust for his own personal gain, plain and simple. Whether that gain was money, personal glory, or a better chance of getting off with Galvin, he went on a solo run when it was agreed there should be 14 men behind the ball, as it were. He had to walk or be pushed, squads can't function with that level of distrust.
What is more disturbing is what it implies. He wants us to know...
- He idolises McMenamin and Galvin and their on-the-edge nasty tendencies. He "thinks" about Galvin everyday FFS ???
- He wants to emulate the tough-man, ultra hard hitting Brian 'Wolverine' Dawkins.
Yet, when he suspects that Connolly might have struck Bambi Boyle he wants us to believe that his instinctive reaction was to prance about like a soccer pansy figuratively waving a red card and thinking about the final? I have looked at plenty of Brian 'Wolverine' Dawkins clips and in not one does he prance about like aforesaid pansy. Any, self-respecting red-meat-eating Gweedore man worth his salt (and Cassidy was king of them until this year) would have instinctively floored Connolly with a shoulder. I said it at the time on here, I think the Connolly sending off incident was premeditated and rehearsed. Just another cynical gameplay to be rolled out if and when the opportunity arose or could be engineered. Look it again, Boyle, Cassidy and Kavanagh's roles in that wee cameo are not at all natural or convincing.
Cassidy is a tool but not the sharpest tool - that is clear. He didn't make up a masterplan all on his own. He didn't just wake up the morning of the Tyrone match and decide on the spur of the moment that he would get in Red Peter's face like he's never done before. Unless maybe McMenamin and Galvin spoke to him in a dream?
There is something distasteful, cynical, and corrupt at the core of the Donegal Project and the finger of suspicion is pointing firmly at McGuinness and his henchman Gallagher.
I am looking forward to watching the wheels coming off, one wheel at a time ;D
God knows what other incidents were pre-meditated, such as the Joe McMahon injury in the Ulster Championship game that probably cost Tyrone the match?
You would like to think not. You wouldnt deliberately hit a man on the jaw when he was just back from a broken jaw. Id find that hard to believe.
Quote from: rrhf on November 10, 2011, 01:55:50 PM
You would like to think not. You wouldnt deliberately hit a man on the jaw when he was just back from a broken jaw. Id find that hard to believe.
Me too. Especially when McLoone was just back himself from an ankle break. No prize is worth that.
All the same he hardly going to be asked to turn on the xmas tree lights in Omagh this year.
What about the Cork Goalkeeper didnt he have a book out full of similar controversy and yet nobody dropped him.
orangeman - No, I think it is one of the most ridiculous acts ever from a GAA manager. Maybe if he were managing Man Utd and Cassidy was on 70k a week, then he might have a case. I think this whole Donegal team will fall apart as players start to lose faith. McGuinness in no genius, he just dumbed football down and used a pile of psycho babble to get to people to believe in him
Think he had the shits going into the game..
Quote from: rrhf on November 10, 2011, 02:29:27 PM
All the same he hardly going to be asked to turn on the xmas tree lights in Omagh this year.
Fair enough. I'm not defending what McLoone did. It was, at best, a very reckless and dangerous attempted tackle chasing a bouncing ball. He should have got the line. But whether it was deliberate, either by McLoone or, much worse, ordered by McGuinness, is a totally different charge and not to be made lightly.
Agreed
Cassidy is guilty of being naive. McGuinness could have handled it privately. Roscommon made a big deal of sacking the panel a few years ago and its only in the last 2-3 seasons the county team recovered. The taunting... the sending offs etc are nothing new but generally you dont openly admit that its part of the greater plan. Unfortuntely for McGuinness who built his whole strategy on negative football this year it only adds to his notoriety. I also think maybe Cassidy intended going anyhow and judging from his statement he wont be back. Big Loss.
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2011, 02:43:33 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 10, 2011, 02:29:27 PM
All the same he hardly going to be asked to turn on the xmas tree lights in Omagh this year.
Fair enough. I'm not defending what McLoone did. It was, at best, a very reckless and dangerous attempted tackle chasing a bouncing ball. He should have got the line. But whether it was deliberate, either by McLoone or, much worse, ordered by McGuinness, is a totally different charge and not to be made lightly.
But Cassidy's "revelations" do raise a question and cast an unflattering light on Donegal's tactics, perceived or otherwise. If Cassidy wasn't acting totally of his own initiative, it's a small step from "get in Peter Harte's face - it'll put him off his game" and "Connolly is a loose canon, wind him up and get the referee to send him off" to "McMahon is only back, he will be a bit vulnerable. Hit him a good rattle the first chance you get and take a yellow if you have to".
Its McGuinness' choice to pick who he wants the same as it his his choice to use whatever tactics he likes.
But mark my words..........it will all end in tears......in tears I say.
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 10, 2011, 03:32:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2011, 02:43:33 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 10, 2011, 02:29:27 PM
All the same he hardly going to be asked to turn on the xmas tree lights in Omagh this year.
Fair enough. I'm not defending what McLoone did. It was, at best, a very reckless and dangerous attempted tackle chasing a bouncing ball. He should have got the line. But whether it was deliberate, either by McLoone or, much worse, ordered by McGuinness, is a totally different charge and not to be made lightly.
But Cassidy's "revelations" do raise a question and cast an unflattering light on Donegal's tactics, perceived or otherwise. If Cassidy wasn't acting totally of his own initiative, it's a small step from "get in Peter Harte's face - it'll put him off his game" and "Connolly is a loose canon, wind him up and get the referee to send him off" to "McMahon is only back, he will be a bit vulnerable. Hit him a good rattle the first chance you get and take a yellow if you have to".
I don't mind the give McMahon a rattle stuff if its hit him with a solid shoulder or something legal. A box in the jaw is something else completely, especially for a lad who just broke it and has a job to go to the next morning. As for the verbal stuff, I can't stand it, but every team does it, so what are you going to do? Following from that I wouldn't mind winding Connolly up as much - its the telling the ref he hit someone when you don't know that is the problem.
McGuinness and Donegal will be in the spotlight from day 1 this season and they will have to refine the tactics that proved successful last year because this year the negative cat is out of the bag. Whilst they rode the crest of a wave last season, only an AI final appearance will be deemed as progress this year, a task that I feel is beyond this side. Last season they were the most pre-programmed side in GAA history, it will be interesting to see how they evolve this year.
I hope that any fresh gameplan will include playing Murphy close to goals and not as a sixth half back. Whatever you say about Donegal they always provide plenty of column inches for the scribes!
Quote from: yellowcard on November 10, 2011, 04:05:34 PM
McGuinness and Donegal will be in the spotlight from day 1 this season and they will have to refine the tactics that proved successful last year because this year the negative cat is out of the bag. Whilst they rode the crest of a wave last season, only an AI final appearance will be deemed as progress this year, a task that I feel is beyond this side. Last season they were the most pre-programmed side in GAA history, it will be interesting to see how they evolve this year.
I hope that any fresh gameplan will include playing Murphy close to goals and not as a sixth half back. Whatever you say about Donegal they always provide plenty of column inches for the scribes!
Don't disagree with much of that, but Murphy played up front most of the season, except the Dublin game and maybe parts of the Antrim one.
Quote from: yellowcard on November 10, 2011, 04:05:34 PM
McGuinness and Donegal will be in the spotlight from day 1 this season and they will have to refine the tactics that proved successful last year because this year the negative cat is out of the bag. Whilst they rode the crest of a wave last season, only an AI final appearance will be deemed as progress this year, a task that I feel is beyond this side. Last season they were the most pre-programmed side in GAA history, it will be interesting to see how they evolve this year.
I hope that any fresh gameplan will include playing Murphy close to goals and not as a sixth half back. Whatever you say about Donegal they always provide plenty of column inches for the scribes!
Just want to say i agree about the fresh game-plan bit. Murphy was played forward abit this year but has so much more potential if left right up on the edge of the square the whole time. Its been seen in all his club games & in australia this year the damage he is capable of, so i hope Jim takes note on whats missing when Murphy isnt left up full forward for the 70 mins.
just read about this. sad state of affairs, but if there's a code of conduct and if cassidy is none too repentant as he's quoted as saying in an article, there's less wriggle room for mcguinness. tough call, but the right one imo. can't have players challenging the manager and team's code of conduct. he can say all he likes when he's retired, why didn't he do that?! tut, tut.
Quote from: cadence on November 10, 2011, 05:25:55 PM
just read about this. sad state of affairs, but if there's a code of conduct and if cassidy is none too repentant as he's quoted as saying in an article, there's less wriggle room for mcguinness. tough call, but the right one imo. can't have players challenging the manager and team's code of conduct. he can say all he likes when he's retired, why didn't he do that?! tut, tut.
I think the players are entitled to challenge lunacy.
When will donegal fans realise that all mc guinness did was dumb down gaelic football rather then up-skill anything. The latter takes managerial talent the former doesn't.
Terrible to see talent being reduced to playing like apes. Its garbage in my view to suggest Donegal couldnt get to an all-ireland semi playing conventional football with the quality at their disposal.
In my view Mc Guinness's biggest issue with Cassidy is that he simply confirmed that they had been effectively brain washed into playing caveman football and he doesn't like being exposed like this.
Less of the sensationalist shit for once Indiana, he took a team that got clean humped the other year by Armagh, yes Armagh, to the verge of an AI, winning their first provincial title since 1992. Also the first team to break the Armagh/Tyrone strangehold held since 98.
Can't ignore the facts, he's worked wonders up there. Donegal were a pub team before he took over.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 10, 2011, 07:17:15 PM
Less of the sensationalist shit for once Indiana, he took a team that got clean humped the other year by Armagh, yes Armagh, to the verge of an AI, winning their first provincial title since 1992. Also the first team to break the Armagh/Tyrone strangehold held since 98.
Can't ignore the facts, he's worked wonders up there. Donegal were a pub team before he took over.
And are already on their way back to being a pub team
Breaking News...........
Kevin Cassidy real reason for being put of the team was because he crossed the line.
The half way line :D
Haha brilliant! mcGuinness is a clown, had he let this go without acting on it, it would all have blown over. Now the whole country is aware of it and he will either be without one of his best players or be forced to make an embarassing climbdown when Cassidy returns.
Dublin also had to "Dumb" down their game to win the All Ireland, yes not to the extreme Donegal did however without the defensive style Dublin could have shipped another hammering like they did in 08,09.
For year's under different management Donegal played free flowing football without success fitzroyalty is correct McGuinness worked wonders.
I wouldn't accept he performed wonders or that Donegal were a 'pub team'. He certainly got them pulling in the same direction and got them to commit to a better of the field lifestyle and attitude but he did nothing imaginative or revolutionary on the pitch. I would agree with Indiana when he says Donegal could have gone as far as they did playing more conventional. Yes they broke the Tyrone/Armagh stranglehold of Ulster but these were a shadow of their former selves and they had their fair share of luck this year. In fact luck is the cornerstone of the Donegal plan in many ways, keep the game as tight as possible and the winner will probably be the team that scores a goal or gets the most scoreable frees. Dublin got a few soft ones to beat Donegal and Donegal got the penalty when Derry didn't to swing the Ulster final their way.
I'm not convinced that Jim's way will be successful and I think he is one dimensional and this 'experiment' will end in tears.
QuoteDublin also had to "Dumb" down their game to win the All Ireland, yes not to the extreme Donegal did however without the defensive style Dublin could have shipped another hammering like they did in 08,09.
That's nonsense, Dublin got a better balance between defending and attacking. Donegal had no such balance.
Quote from: Zulu on November 10, 2011, 07:34:16 PM
Dublin got a few soft ones to beat Donegal and Donegal got the penalty when Derry didn't to swing the Ulster final their way.
Speaking of nonsense? that penalty Donegal got (which i believe was a foul) was irrelevant as they would have won that game anyways & It wasn't Dublin's better balance that beat Donegal it was those soft frees.
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 10, 2011, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: Zulu on November 10, 2011, 07:34:16 PM
Dublin got a few soft ones to beat Donegal and Donegal got the penalty when Derry didn't to swing the Ulster final their way.
Speaking of nonsense? that penalty Donegal got (which i believe was a foul) was irrelevant as they would have won that game anyways & It wasn't Dublin's better balance that beat Donegal it was those soft frees.
You could be at those sort of arguments all night.
Had Tomás O'Connor's legitimate goal stood in the quarter-final? etc.
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 10, 2011, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: Zulu on November 10, 2011, 07:34:16 PM
Dublin got a few soft ones to beat Donegal and Donegal got the penalty when Derry didn't to swing the Ulster final their way.
Speaking of nonsense? that penalty Donegal got (which i believe was a foul) was irrelevant as they would have won that game anyways & It wasn't Dublin's better balance that beat Donegal it was those soft frees.
Eh? What are talking about? You don't know who would have won that game if Donegal didn't get their penalty or if Derry had got theirs, to suggest you do is plain rubbish.
While the soft frees certainly helped Dublin, the fact they were trying to score led to those frees whereas Donegal pretty much gave up on the concept of scoring, so yes Dublin's better balance of attacking and defending was the core reason they won.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on November 10, 2011, 07:50:33 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 10, 2011, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: Zulu on November 10, 2011, 07:34:16 PM
Dublin got a few soft ones to beat Donegal and Donegal got the penalty when Derry didn't to swing the Ulster final their way.
Speaking of nonsense? that penalty Donegal got (which i believe was a foul) was irrelevant as they would have won that game anyways & It wasn't Dublin's better balance that beat Donegal it was those soft frees.
You could be at those sort of arguments all night.
Had Tomás O'Connor's legitimate goal stood in the quarter-final? etc.
That's the bit of luck they did get. Bad luck seems to follow Kildare the last few years, they must have watched Dublin lift Sam last September & thought that should have been us.
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 10, 2011, 07:56:47 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on November 10, 2011, 07:50:33 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 10, 2011, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: Zulu on November 10, 2011, 07:34:16 PM
Dublin got a few soft ones to beat Donegal and Donegal got the penalty when Derry didn't to swing the Ulster final their way.
Speaking of nonsense? that penalty Donegal got (which i believe was a foul) was irrelevant as they would have won that game anyways & It wasn't Dublin's better balance that beat Donegal it was those soft frees.
You could be at those sort of arguments all night.
Had Tomás O'Connor's legitimate goal stood in the quarter-final? etc.
That's the bit of luck they did got. Bad luck seems to follow Kildare the last few years, they must have watched Dublin lift Sam last September & thought that should have been us.
Hard to get handy score-able frees with 14 men in your own half.
Sure it's all part of the craic, whispering sweet nothings into your man's ear.
Brolly has a sensible take on it in this week's GL: "The Donegal management have made an appalling error in banishing a current All Star for simply telling a few yarns..."
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 10, 2011, 07:27:31 PM
Dublin also had to "Dumb" down their game to win the All Ireland, yes not to the extreme Donegal did however without the defensive style Dublin could have shipped another hammering like they did in 08,09.
For year's under different management Donegal played free flowing football without success fitzroyalty is correct McGuinness worked wonders.
All he did was get them organised off the pitch and improve their lifestyle. You don't need a degree in Sports Science or coaching for that. He brought 14 men back into a very confined space and invited the opposition onto them in the hope that their long range shooting would fail them.
A lot of it was pure dumb luck. On the pitch he revolutionised nothing. They beat Antrim who are awful. Tyrone who were destroyed by Dublin and Derry who were thumped by Kildare. They needed a woeful decision to beat Kildare.
They have some fine footballers at their disposal and arguably two of the top 10 GAA players in Ireland at their disposal. I absolutely refuse to accept they cant play some form of conventional Gaelic Football and get as far in the championship.
At the end of the day we are all Gaelic Football fans. Its a great game when played properly in my view. If every team was to go down Donegal's route - the game is finished. Their is nothing wrong with a blanket defence when you make an effort to play when you have the ball. Donegal made no effort to do so. Thats not coaching in my opinion.
As regards Dublin- we had the perfect balance last year between defence and atatck. We've spent years trying to ape Tyrone and finally we did last year.
We'll see how good a manager Mc Guinness is next season when he'll have to show his team to play a bit.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 10, 2011, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 10, 2011, 07:27:31 PM
Dublin also had to "Dumb" down their game to win the All Ireland, yes not to the extreme Donegal did however without the defensive style Dublin could have shipped another hammering like they did in 08,09.
For year's under different management Donegal played free flowing football without success fitzroyalty is correct McGuinness worked wonders.
All he did was get them organised off the pitch and improve their lifestyle. You don't need a degree in Sports Science or coaching for that. He brought 14 men back into a very confined space and invited the opposition onto them in the hope that their long range shooting would fail them.
A lot of it was pure dumb luck. On the pitch he revolutionised nothing. They beat Antrim who are awful. Tyrone who were destroyed by Dublin and Derry who were thumped by Kildare. They needed a woeful decision to beat Kildare.
They have some fine footballers at their disposal and arguably two of the top 10 GAA players in Ireland at their disposal. I absolutely refuse to accept they cant play some form of conventional Gaelic Football and get as far in the championship.
At the end of the day we are all Gaelic Football fans. Its a great game when played properly in my view. If every team was to go down Donegal's route - the game is finished. Their is nothing wrong with a blanket defence when you make an effort to play when you have the ball. Donegal made no effort to do so. Thats not coaching in my opinion.
As regards Dublin- we had the perfect balance last year between defence and atatck. We've spent years trying to ape Tyrone and finally we did last year.
We'll see how good a manager Mc Guinness is next season when he'll have to show his team to play a bit.
What about belief? Do you not think that was a factor? Who gave them that? What about the work ethic? Who organised the team into who is playing where, when, who's covering who, what style do you play when you break?
Yes he took extreme measures to get it but it was a needs must scenario.
Any random joe can not take a football team, improve their lifestyle, organise them a bit, stick fourteen men behind a ball and then not be a kick on the ass from an all ireland final. Do you really think they could?
Do you really think all his game plan was based on was the hope that the opposition had an inability to score from long range? Seriously?
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2011, 09:50:04 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 10, 2011, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 10, 2011, 07:27:31 PM
Dublin also had to "Dumb" down their game to win the All Ireland, yes not to the extreme Donegal did however without the defensive style Dublin could have shipped another hammering like they did in 08,09.
For year's under different management Donegal played free flowing football without success fitzroyalty is correct McGuinness worked wonders.
All he did was get them organised off the pitch and improve their lifestyle. You don't need a degree in Sports Science or coaching for that. He brought 14 men back into a very confined space and invited the opposition onto them in the hope that their long range shooting would fail them.
A lot of it was pure dumb luck. On the pitch he revolutionised nothing. They beat Antrim who are awful. Tyrone who were destroyed by Dublin and Derry who were thumped by Kildare. They needed a woeful decision to beat Kildare.
They have some fine footballers at their disposal and arguably two of the top 10 GAA players in Ireland at their disposal. I absolutely refuse to accept they cant play some form of conventional Gaelic Football and get as far in the championship.
At the end of the day we are all Gaelic Football fans. Its a great game when played properly in my view. If every team was to go down Donegal's route - the game is finished. Their is nothing wrong with a blanket defence when you make an effort to play when you have the ball. Donegal made no effort to do so. Thats not coaching in my opinion.
As regards Dublin- we had the perfect balance last year between defence and atatck. We've spent years trying to ape Tyrone and finally we did last year.
We'll see how good a manager Mc Guinness is next season when he'll have to show his team to play a bit.
What about belief? Do you not think that was a factor? Who gave them that? What about the work ethic? Who organised the team into who is playing where, when, who's covering who, what style do you play when you break?
Yes he took extreme measures to get it but it was a needs must scenario.
Any random joe can not take a football team, improve their lifestyle, organise them a bit, stick fourteen men behind a ball and then not be a kick on the ass from an all ireland final. Do you really think they could?
Do you really think all his game plan was based on was the hope that the opposition had an inability to score from long range? Seriously?
Thats all it was based on Tommy.
Physically impossible to play their style of football for 70 mins without incredible luck.
Lets face it they needed Ray Charles as an umpire to beat Kildare and for Kildare to kick 17 wides.
Their gameplan was based on giving the opposition the ball. It was soccer without the offside rule.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 10, 2011, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: cadence on November 10, 2011, 05:25:55 PM
just read about this. sad state of affairs, but if there's a code of conduct and if cassidy is none too repentant as he's quoted as saying in an article, there's less wriggle room for mcguinness. tough call, but the right one imo. can't have players challenging the manager and team's code of conduct. he can say all he likes when he's retired, why didn't he do that?! tut, tut.
I think the players are entitled to challenge lunacy.
When will donegal fans realise that all mc guinness did was dumb down gaelic football rather then up-skill anything. The latter takes managerial talent the former doesn't.
Terrible to see talent being reduced to playing like apes. Its garbage in my view to suggest Donegal couldnt get to an all-ireland semi playing conventional football with the quality at their disposal.
In my view Mc Guinness's biggest issue with Cassidy is that he simply confirmed that they had been effectively brain washed into playing caveman football and he doesn't like being exposed like this.
i'm glad we can rely on you indiana, you being the fervent mcguinness admirer that you are, to relay your unbiased and considered opinion on what his issues with cassidy are.
if you could continue to tell us donegal folk where we're going wrong we would appreciate it greatly. your sophisticated concepts of football take a while for us to process you see. please repeat as usual ad nauseum.
Interesting viewpoint.
- Donegal had no real belief in big games before McGuinness.
- Donegal had no form of defense before McGuinness.
- Donegal hadn't won an ulster title in 19 years before McGuinness.
- Donegal had one forward Michael Murphy and a host of other forwards who when the going got tough were found wanting.
- Systems do not work by accident. They played an effective system - yes it was overkill but it was effective. You play to the strength of the players you have and that, bar Murphy, is what he did. I doubt there are particularly many teams who could implement that system to the same effect.
You get lucky every now and then. You don't get lucky in an unbeaten league run and then unbeaten in the all ireland championship until you get beaten by the eventual champions who can't break you down until very late on in the game. Incidentally that begins to happen only when the defensive talisman of the team has to go off injured.
Maybe Donegal got a lucky decision to beat Kildare but sure so did Dublin.
McGuinness is well into his pscychology - some people believe in it and some don't but it definitely worked. He got players believing, he got a togetherness, he got his team playing with a system. All of these were nowhere to be seen before him.
If next year a raft of teams start playing 14 behind the ball then you will see that it is not that easy to implement.
Did McGuinness do overkill on the system - yes. However he took a team of players who were getting beat hands down every ear when it came to the crunch into an All Ireland semi final unbeaten all year. Luck? I think not.
jim should know his phycology as he spent 10 yrs studying it all round ireland
Quote from: INDIANA on November 10, 2011, 10:08:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2011, 09:50:04 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 10, 2011, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 10, 2011, 07:27:31 PM
Dublin also had to "Dumb" down their game to win the All Ireland, yes not to the extreme Donegal did however without the defensive style Dublin could have shipped another hammering like they did in 08,09.
For year's under different management Donegal played free flowing football without success fitzroyalty is correct McGuinness worked wonders.
All he did was get them organised off the pitch and improve their lifestyle. You don't need a degree in Sports Science or coaching for that. He brought 14 men back into a very confined space and invited the opposition onto them in the hope that their long range shooting would fail them.
A lot of it was pure dumb luck. On the pitch he revolutionised nothing. They beat Antrim who are awful. Tyrone who were destroyed by Dublin and Derry who were thumped by Kildare. They needed a woeful decision to beat Kildare.
They have some fine footballers at their disposal and arguably two of the top 10 GAA players in Ireland at their disposal. I absolutely refuse to accept they cant play some form of conventional Gaelic Football and get as far in the championship.
At the end of the day we are all Gaelic Football fans. Its a great game when played properly in my view. If every team was to go down Donegal's route - the game is finished. Their is nothing wrong with a blanket defence when you make an effort to play when you have the ball. Donegal made no effort to do so. Thats not coaching in my opinion.
As regards Dublin- we had the perfect balance last year between defence and atatck. We've spent years trying to ape Tyrone and finally we did last year.
We'll see how good a manager Mc Guinness is next season when he'll have to show his team to play a bit.
What about belief? Do you not think that was a factor? Who gave them that? What about the work ethic? Who organised the team into who is playing where, when, who's covering who, what style do you play when you break?
Yes he took extreme measures to get it but it was a needs must scenario.
Any random joe can not take a football team, improve their lifestyle, organise them a bit, stick fourteen men behind a ball and then not be a kick on the ass from an all ireland final. Do you really think they could?
Do you really think all his game plan was based on was the hope that the opposition had an inability to score from long range? Seriously?
Thats all it was based on Tommy.
Physically impossible to play their style of football for 70 mins without incredible luck.
Lets face it they needed Ray Charles as an umpire to beat Kildare and for Kildare to kick 17 wides.
Their gameplan was based on giving the opposition the ball. It was soccer without the offside rule.
Every team has some luck on the way to success, it was no more incredible than what Dublin got themselves v Kildare,Wexford & Donegal.
The Kildare v Donegal game will be best remembered for the fightback from 3 points down when all looked lost & it took attacking play to do that.
These sort of 'A fella on the panel told me what was said' stories are a cancer in the GAA.
Players names are being blackened all because some gobshite starts a rumour.
I simply don't believe that the members of our community who are inter-county GAA players would forget, abandon or compromise the decency with which they were reared or the values that are innate to them or betray the sport we all love by abusing a bereaved family for a tawdry advantage in a game of football.
People occasionally post here about vile verbal abuse of opponents' families, even in club matches. I just don't believe it. In my paltry, brief and long-ago football career, I never experienced even the slightest inkling of it and didn't know anybody who did. It just didn't arise. (We were too busy trying to knock each other senseless.) My son played at club level until he emigrated quite recently. I never heard him mention such conduct. I've never heard it in all the time I've spent on the sideline in local matches. I think it's a nasty myth.
Quote from: Hardy on November 11, 2011, 01:59:53 AM
I simply don't believe that the members of our community who are inter-county GAA players would forget, abandon or compromise the decency with which they were reared or the values that are innate to them or betray the sport we all love by abusing a bereaved family for a tawdry advantage in a game of football.
People occasionally post here about vile verbal abuse of opponents' families, even in club matches. I just don't believe it. In my paltry, brief and long-ago football career, I never experienced even the slightest inkling of it and didn't know anybody who did. It just didn't arise. (We were too busy trying to knock each other senseless.) My son played at club level until he emigrated quite recently. I never heard him mention such conduct. I've never heard it in all the time I've spent on the sideline in local matches. I think it's a nasty myth.
As much as I would love to agree with you, unfortunately I can't. Having been subject to some of it myself, and having first hand knowledge what was said to a team mate it happens. And I'm not talking about the "aye tell yer ma I'll be over to collect my shoes tonight" shit. As the stakes and the pressure have increased the boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable have been futher blurred. And what is even more surprising is who might say it. I was subjected to the vilest insinuations from someone who knew me and my family for years and whose family had a close relationship with my own and who ended up being you're archetypal pillar of the community.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 11, 2011, 08:30:15 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 11, 2011, 01:59:53 AM
I simply don't believe that the members of our community who are inter-county GAA players would forget, abandon or compromise the decency with which they were reared or the values that are innate to them or betray the sport we all love by abusing a bereaved family for a tawdry advantage in a game of football.
People occasionally post here about vile verbal abuse of opponents' families, even in club matches. I just don't believe it. In my paltry, brief and long-ago football career, I never experienced even the slightest inkling of it and didn't know anybody who did. It just didn't arise. (We were too busy trying to knock each other senseless.) My son played at club level until he emigrated quite recently. I never heard him mention such conduct. I've never heard it in all the time I've spent on the sideline in local matches. I think it's a nasty myth.
As much as I would love to agree with you, unfortunately I can't. Having been subject to some of it myself, and having first hand knowledge what was said to a team mate it happens. And I'm not talking about the "aye tell yer ma I'll be over to collect my shoes tonight" shit. As the stakes and the pressure have increased the boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable have been futher blurred. And what is even more surprising is who might say it. I was subjected to the vilest insinuations from someone who knew me and my family for years and whose family had a close relationship with my own and who ended up being you're archetypal pillar of the community.
You beat me to it. I'm afraid Hardy this is part of the game today and I have heard 1st hand from a lot of my mates still playing the type of verbal abuse going on. Its shocking to be honest. Even more amazing is that its so common now that most players are not even reacting to the horrendous stuff being said to them.
Maybe Donegal should sign another agreement this year called the "respect" agreement, it would then go into their personnel folders with the "discipline" and "confidentiallity" agreements.
Rarely have I came across anybody during a match who would sit and slabber about my family etc. Never did it myself, always just want the ball and on the odd occasion I have had verbals fired at me there is nothing like when the next ball comes your way and you skin the fella and do the old 'beep beep'. Fairly shuts them up.
Quote from: Hardy on November 11, 2011, 01:59:53 AM
I simply don't believe that the members of our community who are inter-county GAA players would forget, abandon or compromise the decency with which they were reared or the values that are innate to them or betray the sport we all love by abusing a bereaved family for a tawdry advantage in a game of football.
People occasionally post here about vile verbal abuse of opponents' families, even in club matches. I just don't believe it. In my paltry, brief and long-ago football career, I never experienced even the slightest inkling of it and didn't know anybody who did. It just didn't arise. (We were too busy trying to knock each other senseless.) My son played at club level until he emigrated quite recently. I never heard him mention such conduct. I've never heard it in all the time I've spent on the sideline in local matches. I think it's a nasty myth.
Hardy
I am sorry to hear that your son had to emigrate.
At the highest level I am not so sure that it is always fair and decent . Gerry white boots McInerney was insulted about his brother who committed suicide in a big Galway Tipp match back in the day.
Unless Peter Harte or someone else is willing to come out in person and say what was allegedly said, giving Cassidy a chance to defend himself, all you've got here is anonymous cowards spreading vicious rumour and innuendo on the internet. I'm surprised the moderators even allow the allegations to even remain posted here.
mc guinness is way out of line on this one,in fairness what cassidy said was hardly breaking rank.the big loser here is donegal football and mc guinness.he must know how fickle players are and this will ruin whatever chance donegal had of progressing next year.i never heard of such shite of getting players to sign forms relating to team secrets.
Some of the reaction has been a bit ridiculous to be honest. People are nearly suggesting that Cassidy (and Donegal in general) have developed this nasty streak that no-one has ever seen before. Trash talking opponents, handing out the odd softener to boys who may not be 100%, telling players to go down if they are touched at all and trying to get opponents sent off.
There is nothing new going on here as far as I can see. Players having a word with their opponents to put them off their game or provoke a reaction is common place. The best way to answer that is by putting scores on the board. If I remember rightly McMenamin had about three fingers up Paddy Bradley's backside during one Ulster Championship match. It's been going on for years.
If a player gets emptied and suffers a relapse of an injury which they have just recovered from then the player/manager has to accept some responsibility due to the fact that they may have returned slightly too soon. Granted McLoone should have seen red that day but it's not his fault the ref only produced a yellow. I believe Tagdh Kennelly cleaned a Cork player out at the beginning of the All Ireland final one year in what was later revealed as a pre meditated tackle which was discussed before the game.
This furore has turned out to be a dream ticket for the author with country wide coverage and by the sounds of it Cassidy was ready to go anyway with family comittments. Anything that was revealed I think most people had assumed anyway, hardly earth shattering revelations...
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 11:01:36 AM
There is nothing new going on here as far as I can see.
That's what the Catholic Church said for years. Should we just shrug the shoulders and say "Priests will be priests" ;)
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 11, 2011, 11:33:11 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 11:01:36 AM
There is nothing new going on here as far as I can see.
That's what the Catholic Church said for years. Should we just shrug the shoulders and say "Priests will be priests" ;)
There's a fair difference between raping a child and indulging in a few of the 'dark arts' on a football field. I'm sure the lives of those affected by child abuse by the church are in a slightly worse place than Joe McMahon after he got hit a slap in a football match. Maybe not though... ???
Lads, surprised by some of the comments here, that I hadn't been aware of. In case there is any doubt, for some reason, it is absolutely unacceptable to hint or insinuate at some of the stuff here, when there is absolutely no proof of anything like that happening.
Thanks
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 11:37:21 AM
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 11, 2011, 11:33:11 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 11:01:36 AM
There is nothing new going on here as far as I can see.
That's what the Catholic Church said for years. Should we just shrug the shoulders and say "Priests will be priests" ;)
There's a fair difference between raping a child and indulging in a few of the 'dark arts' on a football field. I'm sure the lives of those affected by child abuse by the church are in a slightly worse place than Joe McMahon after he got hit a slap in a football match. Maybe not though... ???
I know for a fact Leo McLoone obtained Joe McMahons number on the monday and rang him immeadiately to apologise as he was that upset! This thread has turned into a farce!
QuoteIf I remember rightly McMenamin had about three fingers up Paddy Bradley's backside during one Ulster Championship match
This must be a Tyrone trait then cos it happened to our Feile team about 6/7 years ago and I had never heard of it before or since - disgusting
Quote from: Declan on November 11, 2011, 02:16:42 PM
QuoteIf I remember rightly McMenamin had about three fingers up Paddy Bradley's backside during one Ulster Championship match
This must be a Tyrone trait then cos it happened to our Feile team about 6/7 years ago and I had never heard of it before or since - disgusting
Happened to Jamie Clarke last year in a club championship match and he retaliated. Dirty rotten act. >:(
McMenamin did same to Gooch...just a likeable all round good fellow is our Ryan.
wouldnt like to sniff thon boys fingers tbf
Quote from: sheamy on November 11, 2011, 03:07:19 PM
McMenamin did same to Gooch...just a likeable all round good fellow is our Ryan.
Must have a bit of a penchant for the nether regions our Ryan. Didn't he go off-the-
ball with Galvin in Healy Park in 2009? Two of Kevin's heroes mano-a-mano, he must have that YouTube video on permanent loop ;D
I can't speak about what players have said or done but I find it astonishing that there seems to be a shrug of the shoulders attitude among some here about trash talking, play acting, sly digs etc. Are people actually viewing this as part of the game?
I'd be the first to admit that I've done and said a few things on the pitch that I wouldn't be particularly proud of but I never crossed the lines that are being suggested by some here. I despair when people say a man should get sent off for 'raising his hands', as it is this attitude that encourages teams to provoke opponents and if they do then hit the ground as if shot with teammates badgering the ref for a sending off.
Every time a poster here defends his county men of behaviour that is entirely unacceptable (and it happens regularly) it is another step in the normalisation of certain acts and we contribute to the dumbing down and scumming up of football.
Quote from: Zulu on November 11, 2011, 03:59:05 PM
I can't speak about what players have said or done but I find it astonishing that there seems to be a shrug of the shoulders attitude among some here about trash talking, play acting, sly digs etc. Are people actually viewing this as part of the game?
I'd be the first to admit that I've done and said a few things on the pitch that I wouldn't be particularly proud of but I never crossed the lines that are being suggested by some here. I despair when people say a man should get sent off for 'raising his hands', as it is this attitude that encourages teams to provoke opponents and if they do then hit the ground as if shot with teammates badgering the ref for a sending off.
Every time a poster here defends his county men of behaviour that is entirely unacceptable (and it happens regularly) it is another step in the normalisation of certain acts and we contribute to the dumbing down and scumming up of football.
+1
The rules are there for a reason, you can't strike an opponent be it a slap across the face or a full on haymaker. As the late Eamon Coleman said, 'If you strick, strike, struck you must go...'
To be honest, most of the slaps that are threw on a pitch wouldn't put a man down if it happened on the street so where do you draw the line and say he's diving and he's not. If you're silly enough to raise a hand to someone you have to accept the punishment, even after provocation. If what he said is bad enough wait until after the game and confront/empty him then...
Spot on Zulu. It wasn't that long ago that another Donegal man - Paddy Campbell - was (rightly) pilloried in the press and everywhere else for a disgraceful provocation on Enda Muldoon (which Muldoon responded to, got sent off and his suspension subsequently rescinded). I am not sure, the same dispicable act would be as roundly condemned today. >:( How far we have come in 7 years. Even the cricket authorities have come to condemn (and attempt to ban) sledging.
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
The rules are there for a reason, you can't strike an opponent be it a slap across the face or a full on haymaker. As the late Eamon Coleman said, 'If you strick, strike, struck you must go...'
To be honest, most of the slaps that are threw on a pitch wouldn't put a man down if it happened on the street so where do you draw the line and say he's diving and he's not. If you're silly enough to raise a hand to someone you have to accept the punishment, even after provocation. If what he said is bad enough wait until after the game and confront/empty him then...
Yes the rules are there for a reason but those rules are now being manipulated. It isn't that long ago that some GAA folk called soccer a pansy sport with lads diving all over the place for no reason, are we now much different? Nobody wants to see lads lamping each other (well we do but...) however when I see Connolly get sent off for nothing and then read lads here quoting rule books as if it were the Bible I worry about the game. Christ, Tommy Walsh split Brian Gavin in the All Ireland hurling final and nobody said anything, if Joe McQuillan was split by a flailing fist the player could be looking at 12 months or more and the Sunday Game would have us sickened with pontificating. Lets get the manliness back in football and eradicate the sly cowardly acts that have become all too common.
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
The rules are there for a reason, you can't strike an opponent be it a slap across the face or a full on haymaker. As the late Eamon Coleman said, 'If you strick, strike, struck you must go...'
To be honest, most of the slaps that are threw on a pitch wouldn't put a man down if it happened on the street so where do you draw the line and say he's diving and he's not. If you're silly enough to raise a hand to someone you have to accept the punishment, even after provocation. If what he said is bad enough wait until after the game and confront/empty him then...
Good man screenmachine, the voice of reason. What's the figure? 17 people killed last year from a single punch? And you don't have to go beyond this week or outside your own county if you want the proof of the stupidity of your statement.
Quote from: Zulu on November 11, 2011, 03:59:05 PM
I can't speak about what players have said or done but I find it astonishing that there seems to be a shrug of the shoulders attitude among some here about trash talking, play acting, sly digs etc. Are people actually viewing this as part of the game?
I'd be the first to admit that I've done and said a few things on the pitch that I wouldn't be particularly proud of but I never crossed the lines that are being suggested by some here. I despair when people say a man should get sent off for 'raising his hands', as it is this attitude that encourages teams to provoke opponents and if they do then hit the ground as if shot with teammates badgering the ref for a sending off.
Every time a poster here defends his county men of behaviour that is entirely unacceptable (and it happens regularly) it is another step in the normalisation of certain acts and we contribute to the dumbing down and scumming up of football.
Well said. I honestly don't like that Donegal have introduced this shite into their game this year, but if other teams are and have been using to their advantage, its hard to blame them. I used to dislike players like Ryan McMenamin intensely, but what do you do when your own team adopts the tactics? Stop following the game altogether? If there was to be a ban on trash talking and sly, sneaky digs, how do you police it? Its easy when Paddy Campbell grabs Enda Muldoon's nuts in full view of the camera, but its rarely that clearcut and the talking part is a non-runner in terms of policing it. The likes of Brendan Devenney used to complain about the cynicism and nastiness and stuff that'd be said by the players marking him in the Ulster championship and how he much preferred playing southern teams, but the inevitable response was that he should stop whinging and get on with it. We can't have it both ways.
Quote from: Zulu on November 11, 2011, 04:32:32 PM
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
The rules are there for a reason, you can't strike an opponent be it a slap across the face or a full on haymaker. As the late Eamon Coleman said, 'If you strick, strike, struck you must go...'
To be honest, most of the slaps that are threw on a pitch wouldn't put a man down if it happened on the street so where do you draw the line and say he's diving and he's not. If you're silly enough to raise a hand to someone you have to accept the punishment, even after provocation. If what he said is bad enough wait until after the game and confront/empty him then...
Yes the rules are there for a reason but those rules are now being manipulated. It isn't that long ago that some GAA folk called soccer a pansy sport with lads diving all over the place for no reason, are we now much different? Nobody wants to see lads lamping each other (well we do but...) however when I see Connolly get sent off for nothing and then read lads here quoting rule books as if it were the Bible I worry about the game. Christ, Tommy Walsh split Brian Gavin in the All Ireland hurling final and nobody said anything, if Joe McQuillan was split by a flailing fist the player could be looking at 12 months or more and the Sunday Game would have us sickened with pontificating. Lets get the manliness back in football and eradicate the sly cowardly acts that have become all too common.
I remember the outrage on the board here in 2004 at Devenney when got a very lengthy ban for putting his hands on McQuillan's waist and pushing him! It was absolutely out of line on Devenney's part, but McQuillan had missed all kinds of fouling by the Fermanagh defender on Devenney, yet sent him off for two yellows (can't remember what for, but they weren't for much and Devenney was very upset at the percieved injustice).
True, but a start would be not sending lads off if there hasn't been an actual punch, none of this raised hands shite and a year long ban from all GAA if a clear dive can be shown from TV footage. The mouthing can't be monitored generally but you have to be 13 yards away from a free taker so anyone mouthing to a free taker should be heard by the ref and if so he should be sent off immediately even if he is just saying best of luck!!
You see in sports like American football where they tolerate little or no nonsense from players and we must do the same, allow good hard football that might go overboard sometimes but cut out the underhand shit as much as possible.
All the begging that was done to get him back,then this.
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 11, 2011, 04:40:12 PM
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
The rules are there for a reason, you can't strike an opponent be it a slap across the face or a full on haymaker. As the late Eamon Coleman said, 'If you strick, strike, struck you must go...'
To be honest, most of the slaps that are threw on a pitch wouldn't put a man down if it happened on the street so where do you draw the line and say he's diving and he's not. If you're silly enough to raise a hand to someone you have to accept the punishment, even after provocation. If what he said is bad enough wait until after the game and confront/empty him then...
Good man screenmachine, the voice of reason. What's the figure? 17 people killed last year from a single punch? And you don't have to go beyond this week or outside your own county if you want the proof of the stupidity of your statement.
Firstly you've got people comparing on field nasties with the child abuse scandal in the church and now this. My point was justifying the rules that are put in place that if you strike an opponent on the field then you have to be sent off. The end of my point was merely down to the fact that if a player had been goading an opponent about the death of a relative for example, which was suggested earlier, then I think that player has a case to answer and should be confronted at a suitable time. If the player reacts immediately and is sent off then you're going to be called silly for reacting but if confronted afterwards and the details of the trash talking is revealed then I think it can be justified to an extent.
You can pull figures out of the air to try and validate your post but if you're going down that road then perhaps the players who have hit players off the ball in the past should be the target of your stats as surely they are more appropriate targets who need your advice rather than someone speaking about it online. ???
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2011, 09:22:05 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 11, 2011, 01:59:53 AM
I simply don't believe that the members of our community who are inter-county GAA players would forget, abandon or compromise the decency with which they were reared or the values that are innate to them or betray the sport we all love by abusing a bereaved family for a tawdry advantage in a game of football.
People occasionally post here about vile verbal abuse of opponents' families, even in club matches. I just don't believe it. In my paltry, brief and long-ago football career, I never experienced even the slightest inkling of it and didn't know anybody who did. It just didn't arise. (We were too busy trying to knock each other senseless.) My son played at club level until he emigrated quite recently. I never heard him mention such conduct. I've never heard it in all the time I've spent on the sideline in local matches. I think it's a nasty myth.
Hardy
I am sorry to hear that your son had to emigrate.
At the highest level I am not so sure that it is always fair and decent . Gerry white boots McInerney was insulted about his brother who committed suicide in a big Galway Tipp match back in the day.
How do you know?
I've heard this type of thing attributed to different players from different counties in hurling and football.
I just can't believe anyone would stoop that low.
I know of one rumour about a Meath player saying something similar to a Mayo player and it was out and out bullshit.
How can we tell if its 2 or 3 fingers used. Typical bullshit
Easy. count the number of brown fingers when he goes to catch the next ball!
what's 'Any Craic' got to say about all this?
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2011, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: Zulu on November 11, 2011, 03:59:05 PM
I can't speak about what players have said or done but I find it astonishing that there seems to be a shrug of the shoulders attitude among some here about trash talking, play acting, sly digs etc. Are people actually viewing this as part of the game?
I'd be the first to admit that I've done and said a few things on the pitch that I wouldn't be particularly proud of but I never crossed the lines that are being suggested by some here. I despair when people say a man should get sent off for 'raising his hands', as it is this attitude that encourages teams to provoke opponents and if they do then hit the ground as if shot with teammates badgering the ref for a sending off.
Every time a poster here defends his county men of behaviour that is entirely unacceptable (and it happens regularly) it is another step in the normalisation of certain acts and we contribute to the dumbing down and scumming up of football.
Well said. I honestly don't like that Donegal have introduced this shite into their game this year, but if other teams are and have been using to their advantage, its hard to blame them. I used to dislike players like Ryan McMenamin intensely, but what do you do when your own team adopts the tactics? Stop following the game altogether? If there was to be a ban on trash talking and sly, sneaky digs, how do you police it? Its easy when Paddy Campbell grabs Enda Muldoon's nuts in full view of the camera, but its rarely that clearcut and the talking part is a non-runner in terms of policing it. The likes of Brendan Devenney used to complain about the cynicism and nastiness and stuff that'd be said by the players marking him in the Ulster championship and how he much preferred playing southern teams, but the inevitable response was that he should stop whinging and get on with it. We can't have it both ways.
Devenney went through a run of games where he was basically getting molested ever week. Enda McNulty, McMenamin and Ryan McCloskey who was as bad if not worse than the first two.
The life of a corner forward in ulster round those times wouldn't have been a good one.
There's a lot of stuff goes on off the ball which is more or less impossible to catch by refs etc. None of us will ever know what's said though so making speculation on it is wrong as it tars players with a brush which they may or ma not merit. Neither will we know if one player stuck his fingers up anothers arse. Girlfriends phone numbers etc I would like to think are ridiculous rumours too so I pay no heed to them.
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 05:57:56 PM
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 11, 2011, 04:40:12 PM
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
The rules are there for a reason, you can't strike an opponent be it a slap across the face or a full on haymaker. As the late Eamon Coleman said, 'If you strick, strike, struck you must go...'
To be honest, most of the slaps that are threw on a pitch wouldn't put a man down if it happened on the street so where do you draw the line and say he's diving and he's not. If you're silly enough to raise a hand to someone you have to accept the punishment, even after provocation. If what he said is bad enough wait until after the game and confront/empty him then...
Good man screenmachine, the voice of reason. What's the figure? 17 people killed last year from a single punch? And you don't have to go beyond this week or outside your own county if you want the proof of the stupidity of your statement.
Firstly you've got people comparing on field nasties with the child abuse scandal in the church and now this. My point was justifying the rules that are put in place that if you strike an opponent on the field then you have to be sent off. The end of my point was merely down to the fact that if a player had been goading an opponent about the death of a relative for example, which was suggested earlier, then I think that player has a case to answer and should be confronted at a suitable time. If the player reacts immediately and is sent off then you're going to be called silly for reacting but if confronted afterwards and the details of the trash talking is revealed then I think it can be justified to an extent.
You can pull figures out of the air to try and validate your post but if you're going down that road then perhaps the players who have hit players off the ball in the past should be the target of your stats as surely they are more appropriate targets who need your advice rather than someone speaking about it online. ???
It was you that was giving the advice. You suggested that if player was aggrieved to anger at something that was said to him onfield that he should wait and empty him after the match. That is assault, or as I was illustrating, worse and stupid advice.
In case you have forgotten or missed the quote above:
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
If what he said is bad enough wait until after the game and confront/empty him then...
Screenmachine, wise the head ...or move to Rasharkin :D
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 12, 2011, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 05:57:56 PM
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on November 11, 2011, 04:40:12 PM
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
The rules are there for a reason, you can't strike an opponent be it a slap across the face or a full on haymaker. As the late Eamon Coleman said, 'If you strick, strike, struck you must go...'
To be honest, most of the slaps that are threw on a pitch wouldn't put a man down if it happened on the street so where do you draw the line and say he's diving and he's not. If you're silly enough to raise a hand to someone you have to accept the punishment, even after provocation. If what he said is bad enough wait until after the game and confront/empty him then...
Good man screenmachine, the voice of reason. What's the figure? 17 people killed last year from a single punch? And you don't have to go beyond this week or outside your own county if you want the proof of the stupidity of your statement.
Firstly you've got people comparing on field nasties with the child abuse scandal in the church and now this. My point was justifying the rules that are put in place that if you strike an opponent on the field then you have to be sent off. The end of my point was merely down to the fact that if a player had been goading an opponent about the death of a relative for example, which was suggested earlier, then I think that player has a case to answer and should be confronted at a suitable time. If the player reacts immediately and is sent off then you're going to be called silly for reacting but if confronted afterwards and the details of the trash talking is revealed then I think it can be justified to an extent.
You can pull figures out of the air to try and validate your post but if you're going down that road then perhaps the players who have hit players off the ball in the past should be the target of your stats as surely they are more appropriate targets who need your advice rather than someone speaking about it online. ???
It was you that was giving the advice. You suggested that if player was aggrieved to anger at something that was said to him onfield that he should wait and empty him after the match. That is assault, or as I was illustrating, worse and stupid advice.
In case you have forgotten or missed the quote above:
Quote from: screenmachine on November 11, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
If what he said is bad enough wait until after the game and confront/empty him then...
My angle was that he would be better advised to react when the game was over rather than during it as he would be more than likely sent off and could cost his team the game.
I know exactly what I stated, that if the trash talking is bad enough then I think you have every right to confront the person afterwards. Are you telling me that if you were walking down the street with your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend or whatever and somebody started to verbally abuse your accomplice you would stand there and do nothing about it...Why should it be any different to abuse handed out on a football pitch?
Surely it's this type of abuse that we should be trying to tackle rather debating where the retaliation should take place?
Crossmaglen are well known for their verbals, but I am reliably informed that in a match in recent years some of their players took some serious personal abuse, certainly well below the general verbals.
Former Donegal senior football manager John Joe Doherty claims that he understands why his successor Jim McGuinness took the decision to drop two-time All-Star winner Kevin Cassidy from the county's panel.
Cassidy was removed from the Donegal set-up following his part in the This Is Our Year book, in which he criticizes McGuinness' 2010 management team.
In the book, Cassidy is critical of Doherty and his management team and claims that they had lost the support of the squad. He also states that he helped quelled a player revolt in the county.
However, speaking on RTÉ Radio 1's Sport At 7, Doherty insisted that there was never any player revolt during his time in charge and says that he is misquoted in the book.
"We live in a very critical world and obviously my two years with the county were unsuccessful. If Kevin was going to make a comment, he was entitled to make a critical comment, but from my point of view I would have a few problems with the book," Doherty said.
"I was quoted once in it as having said something that I didn't say at all and there were other things. For example there was talk about a player revolt. I took it upon myself to make a couple of calls to a few senior Donegal players that are still involved in the team. They said that it was the first they'd heard of this players' revolt.
"There probably was a few disgruntled men in the panel that would have loved to hang me out to dry, but that's the one issue I got to the bottom of myself."
Doherty explained that he believed that Cassidy's involvement in the book was a breach of dressing-room confidentiality.
"It was one of those calls that's very difficult for a manager to make. It's a nightmare kind of call," he said.
"I think the problem was the shroud of secrecy that was over the book right from the word go. The manager wasn't aware this was going on, so I think that's where the problem lay.
"What Kevin was thinking, I don't know. He should have always forseen problems down the line with doing the likes of this.
"At the start of the year they [the players] all signed a confidentiality clause [that said] that whatever the preparation for the Donegal team was to be, was kept within the four walls of the dressing room.
"Obviously that's not the way it turned out and Jim took great exception to this. There are plenty of things in the book that I would take issue with myself."
Regarding the above statement, just to be clear, did the players ACTUALLY sign a document or is John Joe saying that there was an understanding amongst players and management that no one would speak out of school ?.
Quote from: orangeman on November 12, 2011, 05:54:31 PM
Regarding the above statement, just to be clear, did the players ACTUALLY sign a document or is John Joe saying that there was an understanding amongst players and management that no one would speak out of school ?.
In addition, did this
document have a life (e.g. for the season), or was it for life?
Here's the thing...
If confidentially in the Donegal dressing room is so important, how is it public knowledge that there was a confidentiality document
Quote from: time ticking away on November 12, 2011, 07:35:58 PM
Here's the thing...
If confidentially in the Donegal dressing room is so important, how is it public knowledge that there was a confidentiality document
The first rule of fight club is......
Quote from: muppet on November 12, 2011, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 12, 2011, 05:54:31 PM
Regarding the above statement, just to be clear, did the players ACTUALLY sign a document or is John Joe saying that there was an understanding amongst players and management that no one would speak out of school ?.
In addition, did this document have a life (e.g. for the season), or was it for life?
maybe it is the mysterious side letter to the memorandum of understanding with the troika. Or the report that fintan o toole wrote about recently on the banks I think that is so secret it was delivered verbally.
anyway when donegal go out in round 2 of the qualifiers to longford next year omerta won't be worth shite.
They signed 2 documents according to my source. Confidentiality and discipline agreements.
Real secret service stuff going on here.
What does the signature mean - i.e. what were the penalties meant to be??
I believe mcguinness has his lawyers working on a lawsuit for breach of contract as we speak. Cassidy could lose his home, its not funny anymore. Even worse, he can rely on a 14 man defence to help him out anymore either
The one thing thay strikes me about all this is that for all the so called togetherness in the squad, and agreements signed, and omerta there really wasn't any such togetherness. If a group are together they are together and you don't need agreements etc to confirm that. The whole thing is a nonsense and McGuinness may have been trying to make a point and show he's the boss but the reality is that Cassidy no doubt has lots of supporters/friends on the panel and I would question their commitment to do what McGuinness wants when the shit hits the fan next season.
We need to talk about Kevin
McGuinness knew Donegal needed ruling with an iron rod, but he may well regret banishing the All Star for his involvement in a book
Michael Foley Published: 13 November 2011
As people gathered in Gweedore last Saturday night, Kevin Cassidy knew what he wanted to say to them. He wanted them to know he was happy with This Is Our Year, the book they had come to launch. When Declan Bogue asked him to be among his eight players and one management team representing all nine Ulster counties through the championship, he liked the idea. It was different. It challenged its subjects and its author, and promised to push the boundaries for sports books into new places.
All those sentiments rang true with Cassidy. He had returned to play with Donegal knowing that everything about his own year would also be different. He was going to be honest with Jim McGuinness and honest with himself. If he did the book, the same would apply.
So he was straight and unflinching and didn't hide anything. He apologised to anyone who was hurt, but also wanted people to know he had no regrets. This was Cassidy: footballer and teacher, husband and father, former hellraiser and Gaeilgeoir, in the raw for people to see and understand.
His story, and the others, makes for absorbing reading. In time, the book should be celebrated as a fascinating snapshot of the modern footballer and a tribute to the enduring appeal of the Ulster championship. In Donegal, it should already be seen as a tribute to a wonderful year. Instead, it has triggered a small war.
Looking around the room in Gweedore there was no Donegal players and no trophies. Cassidy knew why. McGuinness wasn't happy. No player was allowed to attend the launch. A few players texted Cassidy full of bravado. They were coming regardless. They didn't show. Another rang to apologise for not coming. He simply couldn't be seen there.
By Tuesday, Cassidy was gone from the panel. By Thursday his place on the team holiday to Florida was also revoked. Before he even met McGuinness last week, he knew what was coming. To McGuinness, Cassidy's participation in the book was betrayal of a pact signed by all the players signalling their commitment to the team that included keeping details of their preparations to themselves.
To Cassidy, the pact was something he signed quickly without reading the fine print while rushing away from a meeting. McGuinness's biggest issue wasn't the content, but that Cassidy hadn't told him about the book. Cassidy reckoned sharing the news might distract the group if the book became common knowledge.
Dropping Cassidy seems at first glance an irrational, emotional response from McGuinness to a mildly irritating situation. So what if he talked about what went on in 2011? Over the years the stories about Tyrone's preparations during their All-Ireland winning years have also provided some of the most fascinating insights into modern GAA life of the past decade. When asked if he might prefer his players to keep those things secret, Mickey Harte's reply is always the same. What worked last year won't work next year. The rest of the world is welcome to it.
Only in the world McGuinness created for Donegal this year did his reaction make a weird kind of sense. When he took on a panel with such an erratic history, McGuinness knew Donegal needed ruling with an iron rod. Their playing style took no prisoners. Neither did their training or attention to detail. Back in May, Adrian Hanlon was dropped from the panel for drinking. In McGuinness's mind Cassidy's breach was the equivalent, and left him with no choice.
Could it have been avoided? Maybe if Cassidy had read the pact, maybe if McGuinness had read the book first and taken a breath. The question for McGuinness is whether adhering to the rules of 2011 is worth losing Cassidy for 2012. He might have inadvertently breached Donegal's code of trust, but Cassidy hadn't hurt anyone or revealed anything the public didn't know.
We knew about the pools of vomit on the side of the pitch at training the week after the Ulster final, the massive backroom team, the torturous training drills and the heart monitors. We hadn't heard about McGuinness confiscating every mobile phone in the room before revealing to the players Donegal's intention to play 14 men behind the ball against Dublin in the All-Ireland semi-final, but playing that way didn't surprise Dublin or anyone else. We hadn't heard much of Brian Wolverine Dawkins either, the tough-talking, hard-hitting NFL player who became a motif for Donegal's season, but spotting Cassidy frequently trash-talking players during games this year said plenty about Donegal's approach.
We also knew about Cassidy's deep admiration for McGuinness, which is vividly clear throughout. It's hard not to wonder how his players see McGuinness now. His decision to stop players from attending the launch to support their friend was a severe intrusion when playing for Donegal already colonises so much of their lives, and might make some of them think what Donegal can demand from them before it becomes too much.
In the same way their style of play needs tweaking, losing Cassidy suggests Donegal also need to strike a better balance elsewhere. Like Tyrone under Harte eight years ago, McGuinness is nurturing a successful young team in a county with a losing tradition. He also has the smarts and ambition to take much from what Harte did.
His approach gradually evolved from basic tactics and man-management into a value system that gives players the space to be themselves in a way that benefits the team. Like McGuinness, Harte had no idea Ryan McMenamin featured in Bogue's book as the Tyrone story, or that the book even existed before its launch last weekend. It didn't raise a hoot in Tyrone.
There are no bans or restrictions. Players are nurtured to think independently. In time, that unfolded into an intimate understanding of Tyrone's system, allowing Tyrone to change tack quickly during games if required. Once they bought into the ferocious work ethic that underpinned everything, and understood that ethos, the players had the space to make their mistakes and rectify them.
Over the years, teams like Tyrone, Kerry, Armagh and the Cork hurlers allowed a mystique build around their preparations. This book presented that opportunity to Donegal, too. One member of a management team working with a top-six county expressed amazement during the week at the apparent gap between Donegal and his own county. If Donegal raise the bar again in 2012, heaven knows what his crowd need to do to keep pace.
Instead, it's turned into a messy fight. At 30, Cassidy's time might have been up anyway, but Donegal will regret losing him. He was a constant voice at their meetings. He finished the championship with eight points from wing-back and an All-Star. If there is no détente over the winter, Donegal have a huge gap to fill. They knew the lessons of 2011 would shape a lot of their future in 2012. But never like this.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/Sport/GAA/article820318.ece
I'm a very cynical person and think this whole incident is just a little bit too untidy to be true. Every move that McGuinness and his team has made throughout the year was carefully planned and I wouldn't be surprised if this was too. Cassidy was probably retiring anyway so McGuinness has made the most out if this incident to further generate an aura around him and his team.
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 13, 2011, 11:34:27 AM
I'm a very cynical person and think this whole incident is just a little bit too untidy to be true. Every move that McGuinness and his team has made throughout the year was carefully planned and I wouldn't be surprised if this was too. Cassidy was probably retiring anyway so McGuinness has made the most out if this incident to further generate an aura around him and his team.
So what your saying is that McGuinness told Cassidy to reveal things in the book that were said and done during the year so that he could manufacture a situation whereby he could be seen to be exerting his authority? As opposed to Cassidy simply retiring!!! I severly doubt it.
Paddy Bradley has just said that Declan Bogue has fabricated a conversation between himself and John Brennan during the year where he asked him to be a team player and to stop criticising his team mates. Apparently Paddy was asked neither of those things!
Good article by Colm O'Rourke in todays Indo
By Colm O'Rourke
Sunday November 13 2011
When Abraham Lincoln made his famous speech about the abolition of slavery in 1858, he wanted unity in pursuit of this end. "A house divided against itself cannot stand," he said, and it seemed a bit like that in Donegal last week. Kevin Cassidy may have been slightly naive in some of his comments about Donegal's tactics this year, but since when is freedom of speech banned? Banishing him to Outer Mongolia seems a bit harsh.
Donegal manager Jimmy McGuinness was less than impressed with the breaking of the code of omerta and has axed one of his main men. To most people this would appear to be an over-reaction, but if a manager wants to drop a player he needs for next year there is no better time to do it than when there are no games on. It is a long time till next May.
It's not the first time that Cassidy has walked the plank for alleged indiscipline, but a team has to accommodate many characters and sometimes widely different opinions on all sorts of matters. The best managers are comfortable with this so long as everyone pulls the same way when it counts.
That requires an iron will to succeed on the day of a game, but trying to control everything else is like doing you know what against the wind. Anything other than allowing, and even encouraging, players to be themselves off the pitch and to develop as responsible adults is taking things a bit far. Do we want to end up with teams of zombies? Maybe someone will develop a microchip the manager can put in his players' ears so that they all spout the same clichés and nobody is capable of original thoughts. If this is the road we want to go down then all forms of individualism will be wiped out. So much for educated players.
While other sports are opening up their dressing rooms and players to more interviews -- some probably going a bit far -- the GAA in Donegal are retreating back to the cold war days if they allow a player to be axed for comments which are, by and large, harmless.
Naturally, McGuinness does not want a light shone on his modus operandi. Neither would I if it was being publicised that players had to hand in their phones a few hours before the semi-final against Dublin in case someone released the state secret that Donegal were going to be very defensive.
Before that semi-final I wrote that the game would be as far removed from a traditional game of Gaelic football as had ever been played, with both sides opting for a very defensive strategy.
Well, instead of having 13 defenders they had 14. Big deal. Was it worth giving out a dummy team to all the spectators and TV viewers? I don't think that Pat Gilroy was quaking in his runners in the Dublin dressing room waiting for the Donegal team. The pattern of play was not going to change and the few personnel changes involved were largely irrelevant. God be with the days teams were picked and went out and won on Sunday without all this bull. There is nothing wrong with a policy of phones being turned off several hours before a game, but I certainly would not survive in the Donegal team. I would have no trouble having the phone turned off all day, but having to hand it up is silly stuff.
As for all the mouthing off at opponents, well it was clear to anyone watching that Dublin game and it was commented on on TV. Helping to get Diarmuid Connolly sent off was just an extension of that. They are not the first team to have players doing it and Dublin a few years ago were at it too. Now they have moved on and have realised how stupid it is.
When I was playing there were plenty of players who were very good at winding up opponents and there were few who didn't make the occasional uncomplimentary remark, but this type of concerted and organised baiting of opposition players is something I find particularly distasteful.
As for signing a confidentiality clause, well that is off the radar altogether. Never in a million years would I ever sign up for anything like that.
A team is based on trust and no signature on some silly rules and regulations changes that. If the trust breaks down, the contract is not worth the paper it is written on.
That goes for every walk of life. One of the great gifts of Seán Boylan was that he was able to operate in a rules-free zone. There were no drinking bans, you could talk to whoever you liked, the team was picked and sent out to play. These
and other things are now looked on as outdated, even though Dublin, and indeed Kerry, still hold true to many of those virtues. Treat a player like a mature, responsible person with interesting opinions and they will respond. Treat them like mushrooms, with no light, and they will only tolerate that for so long. Rigid systems don't work long term.
It is hardly surprising that Donegal players were happy enough to buy into this system last year. Being successful is worth that for most. After an initial high, players then change for the challenges ahead and great players don't have to be brainwashed.
Perhaps Kevin Cassidy is a loose cannon. Banning the players from appearing at the book launch -- if that is true -- only fuelled the oxygen of publicity. Would a quiet word not have been a better way to handle things? And it certainly looks from the outside that a sledgehammer has been used to crush a small nut. We live in very strange times.
- Colm O'Rourke
Put this whole story to bed as that clown McGuinness does not deserve the limelight, More than likely he was going to write a book and now Cassidy has spoiled it on him.
As i said before, McGuinness can talk the talk but could never walk the walk,
Was as cold as a real frosty morning while he was playing himself
Has Cassidy really been dropped from the Team Holiday? That is a disgrace. All he gave in 2011 and he won't get the holiday because of taking in a book. Joke.
Quote from: TheThirdManning on November 14, 2011, 12:11:08 PM
Has Cassidy really been dropped from the Team Holiday? That is a disgrace. All he gave in 2011 and he won't get the holiday because of taking in a book. Joke.
flight and accom cancelled for him and the mrs - no team holiday
felt sympathy for both parties when this story broke but the more I read/hear about it the more i think mcguinness needs to wind his neck in a bit and catch a grip.
this holiday business is a disgrace. cassidy busted himself all year - one of the best they had and he gets treated like this - f**k him off the panel as it is your right but stopping him going on holiday ::)
The holiday being cancelled betrays the real problem here. And it isn't Cassidy.
The idea of forcing amateurs to sign a confidentiality clause is very twisted. Does anyone have any idea whether the individual forcing the amateurs to be silent is being paid himself?
Cancelling his holiday is just taking the piss and is an exercise in humiliating Cassidy - Says a lot about McGuniness's character and not in a good way
Quote from: TheThirdManning on November 14, 2011, 12:11:08 PM
Has Cassidy really been dropped from the Team Holiday? That is a disgrace. All he gave in 2011 and he won't get the holiday because of taking in a book. Joke.
Not a funny one at all.
Cassidy starting to look very much the victim here and Mc Guiness is starting to come acorss as a bit of a Pol Pot dictatorial figure.
None of my business here but If a man who gave as much service to his county over the years as Cassidy did was thrown out of a holiday he was entitled to and outsiders say for example team trainers etc were being funded by Donegal supporters on the same trip Id be livid.
Quote from: rrhf on November 14, 2011, 01:49:27 PM
None of my business here but If a man who gave as much service to his county over the years as Cassidy did was thrown out of a holiday he was entitled to and outsiders say for example team trainers etc were being funded by Donegal supporters on the same trip Id be livid.
Yeah but would you want to go on holiday with the Borg?
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2011, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 14, 2011, 01:49:27 PM
None of my business here but If a man who gave as much service to his county over the years as Cassidy did was thrown out of a holiday he was entitled to and outsiders say for example team trainers etc were being funded by Donegal supporters on the same trip Id be livid.
Yeah but would you want to go on holiday with the Borg?
lol :D :D if this is true about the holiday business, it has gone to far
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 14, 2011, 04:50:53 PM
Removal of the holiday is incredible but the most disturbing feature is that not a single man on the squad feels able to stand up for a team mate who was prepared to do anything for them.
That crossed my mind yesterday. If Cassidy asked a few (I don't know if he did) to attend the book launch and they didn't because McGuinness said so, then what does it say about Jimmy's influence v Cassidy's friendship with them.
Quote from: ONeill on November 14, 2011, 04:56:47 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 14, 2011, 04:50:53 PM
Removal of the holiday is incredible but the most disturbing feature is that not a single man on the squad feels able to stand up for a team mate who was prepared to do anything for them.
That crossed my mind yesterday. If Cassidy asked a few (I don't know if he did) to attend the book launch and they didn't because McGuinness said so, then what does it say about Jimmy's influence v Cassidy's friendship with them.
If the Sindo is to be believed not only where the squad told not to attend but that was extended to their families as well.
the majority of players if not al were texted personally by kc - some texted back - some didnt - to say they wudnt be there.
also heard some of the players who 'couldnt' make it were in nearby pubs that night - dont know how true this is.
mcguinness seems to have a massive influence over the squad - first successful season will do that to lads - wait till the players have played under his system for another year or 2 and won f**k all - doubt if he will command as much respect/fear from the squad.
kc wont be back now anyway and he is coming up smelling of roses
Players aren't even willing to talk to their mates about the issue cos they are afraid der fuhrer might find out. You know, I don't remember mcguinness having the same attitude as a player that he expects as a manager. He was a watery sort of player always half hearted. I'm looking forward to the implosion.
Being excluded from the holiday is a complete & utter joke. The amount of service Kevin has given thsi county & this is how Jim is going to repay him ? Disgraceful that after the year Cassidy has had he wont even get this small reward :( Although it would probably be a tad awkward being with Jim & rory for a week :D When this story came out first, I thought both men were a bit in the wrong.. but the longer it goes on, the more I veer onto Cassidys side. I think he was naive.. but Jim took things way over the top & thinks he can control every part of these amature sports stars lives. He has taken things to far :'( And I think its sad that he has so much control over the other boys & they're so scared of him that they feel unable to stand up to them. I think after letting Kevin go, all the others know that no mattter who you are or how important to the team you are, mess with Jim & your gone in a flash
The rest of the Donegal squad have been sent a clear warning. Jim 'big brother' McGuinness is watching you 24/7 and unless you toe the party line you will be dealt with similarly. Once Cassidy was thrown off the panel he was never going to be able to take him on the team holiday in case of potential cause for further division within the panel. However I'm sure the county board will give him holiday vouchers its the least he deserves given the service he has given his county.
There is no doubt that though his style of play has been horrible to watch, Mcguinness has done a very good job with Donegal in terms of results. However he is in danger of becoming THE story and seems determined to lay down the law because he is in a position of strength coming off this season. It will be difficult to recreate the success of 2011 and with the dumping of Cassidy I believe he has made a rod for his own back. Privately I believe there are bound to be some unhappy players within the Donegal panel even though they are gagged and bound from speaking out.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 14, 2011, 07:01:18 PM
Players aren't even willing to talk to their mates about the issue cos they are afraid der fuhrer might find out. You know, I don't remember mcguinness having the same attitude as a player that he expects as a manager. He was a watery sort of player always half hearted. I'm looking forward to the implosion.
Seriously what has that to do with him being a good manager. He has seen what Donegal have been like over the past 12 yrs, wasting talent because they weren't committed enough. Although I think he has gone over the top, he still is best placed to know what it takes to make these boys tick. In the past the softly softly approach certainly has not worked for them or Donegal, and that's undeniable
imo there has to be some contrition for breaking confidentiality on cassidy's behalf if he can even be considered to be allowed back into the fold. team privacy is something to be protective of as it allows for a free and fair expression of opinions and trying to find better ways forward. breaking this trust, exposes individuals who felt they had protection under the team. it goes completely against these team ethics when broken. actions and decisions are made in the best interests of the most people in team situations and when you have to consider a group of people. you can't have players only thinking of themselves as it undermines these team ethics and is very divisive when someone who has disregard for the impact of their actions on the rest of the squad and just thinks of themselves, or doesn't think of the impact on the squad. when someone does this, they lose their rights in effect to have the protection of the team. cassidy, and a few more it seems, just doesn't get it.
Quote from: shawshank on November 14, 2011, 11:09:42 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 14, 2011, 07:01:18 PM
Players aren't even willing to talk to their mates about the issue cos they are afraid der fuhrer might find out. You know, I don't remember mcguinness having the same attitude as a player that he expects as a manager. He was a watery sort of player always half hearted. I'm looking forward to the implosion.
Seriously what has that to do with him being a good manager. He has seen what Donegal have been like over the past 12 yrs, wasting talent because they weren't committed enough. Although I think he has gone over the top, he still is best placed to know what it takes to make these boys tick. In the past the softly softly approach certainly has not worked for them or Donegal, and that's undeniable
Maybe it hasn't a lot to do with it but its just an observation that the great Jim was once not that great. I also believe your record of donegal past is not in agreement with mine. Yes they had some decent players and some discipline problems but their biggest problem was they played the slowest shitest football going. Taking 20 hand passes to do what one kick could do. The slow pace of their game never suited their forwards and when the more defensive tactics (relative to traditional open football) came along, donegals tactics were easily defeated. The cured this by playing even shiter football but mote effective all wrapped up in psycho babble which tries to brainwash players into believing they are at the forefront of modern tactics and preparation. The problem is that Jim is insecure about someone seeing through this psycho babble and he wants to own the players every minute to stop that happening. It is just not sustainable and it will fall apart next season.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 14, 2011, 11:52:50 PM
Quote from: shawshank on November 14, 2011, 11:09:42 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 14, 2011, 07:01:18 PM
Players aren't even willing to talk to their mates about the issue cos they are afraid der fuhrer might find out. You know, I don't remember mcguinness having the same attitude as a player that he expects as a manager. He was a watery sort of player always half hearted. I'm looking forward to the implosion.
Seriously what has that to do with him being a good manager. He has seen what Donegal have been like over the past 12 yrs, wasting talent because they weren't committed enough. Although I think he has gone over the top, he still is best placed to know what it takes to make these boys tick. In the past the softly softly approach certainly has not worked for them or Donegal, and that's undeniable
Maybe it hasn't a lot to do with it but its just an observation that the great Jim was once not that great. I also believe your record of donegal past is not in agreement with mine. Yes they had some decent players and some discipline problems but their biggest problem was they played the slowest shitest football going. Taking 20 hand passes to do what one kick could do. The slow pace of their game never suited their forwards and when the more defensive tactics (relative to traditional open football) came along, donegals tactics were easily defeated. The cured this by playing even shiter football but mote effective all wrapped up in psycho babble which tries to brainwash players into believing they are at the forefront of modern tactics and preparation. The problem is that Jim is insecure about someone seeing through this psycho babble and he wants to own the players every minute to stop that happening. It is just not sustainable and it will fall apart next season.
Donegal will be beaten by either Cavan or Fermanagh in Ulster and then finished off by Longford in Pearse Park.
That Jim McGuinness management style comes across as either born again Christian or AA
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 09:54:41 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 14, 2011, 11:52:50 PM
Quote from: shawshank on November 14, 2011, 11:09:42 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 14, 2011, 07:01:18 PM
Players aren't even willing to talk to their mates about the issue cos they are afraid der fuhrer might find out. You know, I don't remember mcguinness having the same attitude as a player that he expects as a manager. He was a watery sort of player always half hearted. I'm looking forward to the implosion.
Seriously what has that to do with him being a good manager. He has seen what Donegal have been like over the past 12 yrs, wasting talent because they weren't committed enough. Although I think he has gone over the top, he still is best placed to know what it takes to make these boys tick. In the past the softly softly approach certainly has not worked for them or Donegal, and that's undeniable
Maybe it hasn't a lot to do with it but its just an observation that the great Jim was once not that great. I also believe your record of donegal past is not in agreement with mine. Yes they had some decent players and some discipline problems but their biggest problem was they played the slowest shitest football going. Taking 20 hand passes to do what one kick could do. The slow pace of their game never suited their forwards and when the more defensive tactics (relative to traditional open football) came along, donegals tactics were easily defeated. The cured this by playing even shiter football but mote effective all wrapped up in psycho babble which tries to brainwash players into believing they are at the forefront of modern tactics and preparation. The problem is that Jim is insecure about someone seeing through this psycho babble and he wants to own the players every minute to stop that happening. It is just not sustainable and it will fall apart next season.
Donegal will be beaten by either Cavan or Fermanagh in Ulster and then finished off by Longford in Pearse Park.
Not a chance will they be beat. Its just wishful thinking. Id expect them to be better next year but I think some of the better teams will be more equipped to combat it. The lesser teams wont have a snowballs chance. However the fad will eventually pass, just not next year.
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2011, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 14, 2011, 01:49:27 PM
None of my business here but If a man who gave as much service to his county over the years as Cassidy did was thrown out of a holiday he was entitled to and outsiders say for example team trainers etc were being funded by Donegal supporters on the same trip Id be livid.
Yeah but would you want to go on holiday with the Borg?
Well if they get 7 of 9 back, then yes.
This seems to have been the man who caused all the bother - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPN0jOaWlsE
Quote from: ONeill on November 15, 2011, 04:42:33 PM
This seems to have been the man who caused all the bother - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPN0jOaWlsE
Watched that last week when this all broke. If I were Dawkins I would be annoyed at Donegal using what he does to develop their 'nasty' streak! He is a man who takes controlled aggression to the next level but he plays within the laws of the game and as far as trash talking well he doesn't even swear so I don't know how Donegal could have used this footage to develop a nasty streak.
He seems to be an inspirational sort of boy, his team mates speak highly of hiim and he seems to be a real leader for his team!!!
Quote from: ONeill on November 15, 2011, 04:42:33 PM
This seems to have been the man who caused all the bother - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPN0jOaWlsE
"You gonna feel it Cooley. I'm tellin' ya. You gonna FEEL IT!!!"
"Some of that sh*t should not come out of a righteous man's mouth so i choose not to use it"
8)
have we kissed and made up, IN twitter would seam to hint that
irishnewssport Irish News Sport
In Irish News tmro: Kevin Cassidy has hinted that his inter-county with Donegal may not be over after all
Quote from: gerry on January 03, 2012, 11:01:32 PM
have we kissed and made up, IN twitter would seam to hint that
irishnewssport Irish News Sport
In Irish News tmro: Kevin Cassidy has hinted that his inter-county with Donegal may not be over after all
Heres hoping they have !!! But it could just be Cassidy saying he
would return, but theres no gaurantee Jim would take him!! I hope they can put their differences behind them though
Jesus between twitter and facebook alot of gaa players are coming across as right tits.....................................cassidy is forever spouting on twitter.................steaks pints no sprints or balls etc, likewise a cple of the dubs lads........................think mcguiness is spot on, I for one am hoping gilroy puts a ban on facebook and twitter for the season ahead.................
If he were allowed back he'd probably have to pay a penance of some sort. Maybe 10 lashes from all the players followed by a 40 mile run. To finish he would then need to put piercings in his nipples and hang McFadden and Michael Murphy out of them for the week. That would probably do it.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 04, 2012, 09:57:53 PM
If he were allowed back he'd probably have to pay a penance of some sort. Maybe 10 lashes from all the players followed by a 40 mile run. To finish he would then need to put piercings in his nipples and hang McFadden and Michael Murphy out of them for the week. That would probably do it.
Sure that's the regular session they do the night before a game.
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on January 04, 2012, 08:27:53 PM
Jesus between twitter and facebook alot of gaa players are coming across as right tits.....................................cassidy is forever spouting on twitter.................steaks pints no sprints or balls etc, likewise a cple of the dubs lads........................think mcguiness is spot on, I for one am hoping gilroy puts a ban on facebook and twitter for the season ahead.................
Cant say I agree with facebook or twitter bans. Players are only normal people at the end of the day, why shouldnt they be allowed to use social networks like the rest of us ? They aren't being paid at the end of the day
I guarantee that the same people who complain about GAA players having a social life, are also the same people who complain about football being boring these days, with too much emphasis on fitness over skill. They also don't understand why one is the cause of the other.
Jim has took the hump with TG4 now and last Sunday apparently did not allow his players to speak with them during the "live" deferred broadcast.
He was asked the last day about the row with Kevin Cassidy and obviously Jim has decided not to further indulge TG4.
He's going well now.
Quote from: orangeman on March 07, 2012, 05:49:42 PM
Jim has took the hump with TG4 now and last Sunday apparently did not allow his players to speak with them during the "live" deferred broadcast.
He was asked the last day about the row with Kevin Cassidy and obviously Jim has decided not to further indulge TG4.
He's going well now.
McGuinness gets rid of Gweedore's Kevin Cassidy, Kilcar's Michael Hegarty retires, now no communicating with TG4. Maybe McGuinness thinks all the players should focus on one language. McGee brothers not too hot at the gaeilge ?
So how does one go about getting a Donegal man a Roscommon address? Ahem.
I remember back around 2000 Roscommon and Donegal played a challenge match to celebrate the opening of the new stand at Michael Glavey's in Ballinlough and after losing the game Big Jim stormed off immediately and wouldn't accept some sort of medal or award they were giving all the players, the only one to do so.
Rationality and perspective aren't his strong suits.
I have a good laugh at a lot of Jim's carry on but in this he is right. TG4 basically stood him a couple of feet from Cassidy - looked like neither expected it - and asked him deliberately provocitive questions about the player.
McGuinness hard to concentrate very hard not to make eye contact with Cassidy while the overhead camera (which they never have and demonstrate the forethought) shows Cassidy squirming and looking anywhere but at the interview.
It was a very cheap shot
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 08, 2012, 07:08:26 AM
I have a good laugh at a lot of Jim's carry on but in this he is right. TG4 basically stood him a couple of feet from Cassidy - looked like neither expected it - and asked him deliberately provocitive questions about the player.
McGuinness hard to concentrate very hard not to make eye contact with Cassidy while the overhead camera (which they never have and demonstrate the forethought) shows Cassidy squirming and looking anywhere but at the interview.
It was a very cheap shot
Was that not the camera they have up the back of the stand/terrace that they always have?
McGuinness is being pernickety again and trying to build a siege mentality, which is a bit early in the year if you ask me.
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 08, 2012, 07:08:26 AM
I have a good laugh at a lot of Jim's carry on but in this he is right. TG4 basically stood him a couple of feet from Cassidy - looked like neither expected it - and asked him deliberately provocitive questions about the player.
McGuinness hard to concentrate very hard not to make eye contact with Cassidy while the overhead camera (which they never have and demonstrate the forethought) shows Cassidy squirming and looking anywhere but at the interview.
It was a very cheap shot
(http://www.donegalnow.com/uploadedfiles/sys_plug_articles/mcguinness_pressed_as_cassidy_looks_on/1329148125.jpg)
Actually you can see that the whole thing was a set up. See Cassidy's left hand going into his pocket and re-emerging out of the interviewer's left shoulder and pushing the mic, aggressively, into McGuinness' face. I spoke to a (very drunk) physio first year and she told me this stretching of the left arm was possible. Look at the other interviewer's left arm, it is clearly a fake.
Also, look, there are no shadows! We all know what no shadows mean, don't we? The final nail in the coffin though is that both interviewers are wearing the same military style jackets with epaulettes for their stripes!!! I suspect the photo was cut at the bottom so we can't see their jack-boots.
Definitely a total set up.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 08, 2012, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 08, 2012, 07:08:26 AM
I have a good laugh at a lot of Jim's carry on but in this he is right. TG4 basically stood him a couple of feet from Cassidy - looked like neither expected it - and asked him deliberately provocitive questions about the player.
McGuinness hard to concentrate very hard not to make eye contact with Cassidy while the overhead camera (which they never have and demonstrate the forethought) shows Cassidy squirming and looking anywhere but at the interview.
It was a very cheap shot
Was that not the camera they have up the back of the stand/terrace that they always have?
McGuinness is being pernickety again and trying to build a siege mentality, which is a bit early in the year if you ask me.
Would he not be better off managing Derry ?
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 08, 2012, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 08, 2012, 07:08:26 AM
I have a good laugh at a lot of Jim's carry on but in this he is right. TG4 basically stood him a couple of feet from Cassidy - looked like neither expected it - and asked him deliberately provocitive questions about the player.
McGuinness hard to concentrate very hard not to make eye contact with Cassidy while the overhead camera (which they never have and demonstrate the forethought) shows Cassidy squirming and looking anywhere but at the interview.
It was a very cheap shot
Was that not the camera they have up the back of the stand/terrace that they always have?
McGuinness is being pernickety again and trying to build a siege mentality, which is a bit early in the year if you ask me.
Would he not be better off managing Derry ?
Sure he would have them driven up the walls
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 08, 2012, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 08, 2012, 07:08:26 AM
I have a good laugh at a lot of Jim's carry on but in this he is right. TG4 basically stood him a couple of feet from Cassidy - looked like neither expected it - and asked him deliberately provocitive questions about the player.
McGuinness hard to concentrate very hard not to make eye contact with Cassidy while the overhead camera (which they never have and demonstrate the forethought) shows Cassidy squirming and looking anywhere but at the interview.
It was a very cheap shot
Was that not the camera they have up the back of the stand/terrace that they always have?
McGuinness is being pernickety again and trying to build a siege mentality, which is a bit early in the year if you ask me.
Would he not be better off managing Derry ?
No time what with the dancing in Ennis.
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 08, 2012, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 08, 2012, 07:08:26 AM
I have a good laugh at a lot of Jim's carry on but in this he is right. TG4 basically stood him a couple of feet from Cassidy - looked like neither expected it - and asked him deliberately provocitive questions about the player.
McGuinness hard to concentrate very hard not to make eye contact with Cassidy while the overhead camera (which they never have and demonstrate the forethought) shows Cassidy squirming and looking anywhere but at the interview.
It was a very cheap shot
Was that not the camera they have up the back of the stand/terrace that they always have?
McGuinness is being pernickety again and trying to build a siege mentality, which is a bit early in the year if you ask me.
Would he not be better off managing Derry ?
Derry don't do the discipline thing well. Can you imagine :)
McGuinness isnt happy unless he hasnt something or someone to give out about. I bet he's on this forum somewhere!