China Coronavirus

[Itchy]

Are there deaths being recorded as Covid incorrectly as they haven't tested people properly?

No there are tests where the doctor who believes it was Covid although the patient wasn't tested.

There must be false Covid diagnoses, I saw on twitter from one regional paper who 2 Covid deaths were categorized as non covid. Sligo I think it was.

[Milltown Row2]

Are there deaths being recorded as Covid incorrectly as they haven't tested people properly?

No there are tests where the doctor who believes it was Covid although the patient wasn't tested.

Reason I brought it up I'd seen ( no citation) quotes of tweets of family saying their loved one had heart attack and in death certificate Covid was used, others were they just died of old age in nursing home (95) Covid was death cert and they weren't tested as they were just buried that day!

But if you think no then it must be true

[upmonaghansayswe]

We have tested 31,179 per million. In Europe, only Lithuania, Estonia, Portugal have a higher rate (not counting Iceland or small states). How is this crap?. Genuinely asking.

Perhaps things have changed, but its my understanding in the ROI you are only tested if you are presenting symptoms (whereas in the UK you essentially have to be on your death bed  ).
If you are then positive, then no testing is done of your family and no attempts are made to test anyone you have been in contact with over the previous two weeks.
[Anyone, step in and correct me if I'm out of date here!]

That almost just testing for testing's sake. There is no direction to it and only a fraction of the benefit of extensive testing is accrued.

[edit: even if I'm wrong on testing family members, its self-explanatory how they got it - so of limited use outside of treating those individuals.]

Even if they took a representative sample of those that are testing positive and then walked back through their lives for the previous 3 weeks and went testing everyone they were in contact with. Then match up positive cases from those tests to how/where they met the carrier*. It then starts to give an understanding of most likely spreading vectors. From which, you have the beginnings of an information base on how to best fine tune the easement of lockdown.

*problem is now, with it so widespread, its hard to be sure if that was the carrier they got the virus from.

We have 19,877 cases but undertaken 153,954 tests. So for every positive case who are the other 7 people being tested?. How can many of them not be contacts, as you suggest?

[GetOverTheBar]

Are there deaths being recorded as Covid incorrectly as they haven't tested people properly?

No there are tests where the doctor who believes it was Covid although the patient wasn't tested.

Reason I brought it up I'd seen ( no citation) quotes of tweets of family saying their loved one had heart attack and in death certificate Covid was used, others were they just died of old age in nursing home (95) Covid was death cert and they weren't tested as they were just buried that day!

But if you think no then it must be true

Covid as a reason for death goes straight to the daily statistics you see. No referal to coroner etc or anything like that. It isn't questioned.

Depends on the medical practitioner and their inclination to be accurate with their paperwork. So in theory, you could have a doctor with no real interest in paperwork, putting Covid as cause of death because it gets paper off their desk.

[macdanger2]

Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early

What do you think Leo could/should have done about these events happening on foreign soil?

[Hardy]

Was there not a panorama on this kind of thing last night? The tories got slated. This kind of thing showed they cared about people more than money (as if we needed to know).

The CMO would only have so much control. Ultimately government make decisions. I would say the CMO has to bite their tongue a lot.

It's a bit more sinister and subtle than that, certainly in the UK. This is how they set up the CMO, CSA, etc. to take the blame:

Minister: What do we have to do to stop this thing spreading?
CMO: We have to test a large sample of the population and then do contact tracing.
Minister: But we don't have near enough testing gear or reagents to do that.  (Unspoken – because we implemented cutbacks to cut down the stockpile).
CMO: Then the only option is to lock down the population.

At the press conference:
Journalist: Minister, why are we locking people in their homes for a month?
Minister: We are implementing the scientific advice. We always follow the science.

[bennydorano]

Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early

Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

[rodney trotter]

Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early

What do you think Leo could/should have done about these events happening on foreign soil?

Letting Italian fans into Ireland wasn't a good decision  when the Rugby was called off.  The fans were going to be a bigger risk then the players mingling in pubs.

[RadioGAAGAA]

We have 19,877 cases but undertaken 153,954 tests. So for every positive case who are the other 7 people being tested?. How can many of them not be contacts, as you suggest?

I said I was unsure whether they were family members tested or not.


How many people do you think you were in close proximity to in the past 3 weeks?

Shopworkers? Neighbours? Other shoppers? A ratio of 1:7 is not high enough.

[I don't know what the figures are elsewhere - statista.com was completely wrong on numbers here, no reason they're any less wrong elsewhere.]


... and this is not good news:
https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/28/coronavirus-germany-s-covid-19-infection-rate-rises-after-lockdown-lifted

The rate at which the coronavirus is spreading in Germany has increased following the easing of lockdown restrictions.

Authorities say the "R" factor, which measures the average number of people that an infected person contaminates, is now close to the limit of target levels.

It had been at around 0.7 on April 20th when Germany eased restrictions on movement and economic activity.

Now it is at 0.96, said Lothar Wieler, the head of the Robert Koch Institute.

While we might not be ready ourselves to ease lockdown, we can learn from others that are.

[GetOverTheBar]

Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early

What do you think Leo could/should have done about these events happening on foreign soil?

Letting Italian fans into Ireland wasn't a good decision  when the Rugby was called off. The fans were going to be a bigger risk then the players mingling in pubs.

Serious question - Did many Italians come to Dublin that weekend?

I can't find anything to suggest Dublin was packed with Italians that weekend, maybe someone in and around the City could provide some insight?

[rodney trotter]

I don't know the figure but if was 100 or whatever, that still has a domino effect and over time those numbers increase.

[imtommygunn]

Was there not a panorama on this kind of thing last night? The tories got slated. This kind of thing showed they cared about people more than money (as if we needed to know).

The CMO would only have so much control. Ultimately government make decisions. I would say the CMO has to bite their tongue a lot.

It's a bit more sinister and subtle than that, certainly in the UK. This is how they set up the CMO, CSA, etc. to take the blame:

Minister: What do we have to do to stop this thing spreading?
CMO: We have to test a large sample of the population and then do contact tracing.
Minister: But we don't have near enough testing gear or reagents to do that.  (Unspoken – because we implemented cutbacks to cut down the stockpile).
CMO: Then the only option is to lock down the population.

At the press conference:
Journalist: Minister, why are we locking people in their homes for a month?
Minister: We are implementing the scientific advice. We always follow the science.

Yeah that would be my view on what is probably going on too.

[JoG2]

Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early

Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

Eh, you're comparing a non essential leisure event with a transport system holding one of the major cities in the world together. London was and is continuously mentioned as a major hotspot for the virus
250k odd sweaty drinkers hugging and coughing / slabbering over each other for days on end before departing to the 4 corners of Ireland and the UK. I personally know a GP who tested positive after he came back and him in contact with the most vulnerable.
Cheltenham should not have happened and should rightly be mentioned... Whoever gave the green light is carrying a heavy burden at this stage

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/fears-over-aer-lingus-jobs-as-british-airways-seeks-12-000-redundancies-1.4240265

[seafoid]

Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early

Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

Eh, you're comparing a non essential leisure event with a transport system holding one of the major cities in the world together. London was and is continuously mentioned as a major hotspot for the virus
250k odd sweaty drinkers hugging and coughing / slabbering over each other for days on end before departing to the 4 corners of Ireland and the UK. I personally know a GP who tested positive after he came back and him in contact with the most vulnerable.
Cheltenham should not have happened and should rightly be mentioned... Whoever gave the green light is carrying a heavy burden at this stage

Cheltenham brought people from all over, infected them and sent them home to infect people when the R number was at least 2.5. 1 infected person at Cheltenham with the R at 2.5 would have meant 406 infected after 30 days.
The Atletico match brought infection from Madrid and embedded it in Liverpool.
The UK now has the worst numbers in Europe. FT estimate 46,000 excess  deaths