Author Topic: Gaels amalgamations  (Read 33320 times)

redsetanta

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Keyser Söze

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #361 on: February 21, 2017, 02:19:00 PM »
http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/gaelic-games/236334/merits-of-underage-amalgamations-debated-at-february-county-board-meeting.html

I have been saying what the Portarlington delegate said for a long time on here.
Laois GAA should not be facilitating the random join ups that the likes of Ballyfin, Mountmellick, Camross, Mountrath etc have been engaging in for the last number of years.

What Borris in Ossory Kilcotton and others seem to be doing is the correct way. Hurl as a parish. and as a last resort (when necessary), drop down into the B at a particular grade.

The County Board have a duty to control this in some way. Proper all in underage amalgamations (such as Raheen Parish Gaels) are what should be encouraged.
There have been crazy one grade join ups permitted over the past 3-4 years and it needs to stop.
I see in the juvenile leagues online that Clough Ballacolla-Mountrath is now a thing at U16 level. This seems to be the only grade they are playing together at.
Clough Ballacolla played with Abbeyleix last year U16. They had an U14 team on their own for the past two years, won the U13 and were in the minor final last year. It's nothing personal against them, but there is no way that they haven't the numbers to play U16 on their own.
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honest hurler

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #362 on: February 21, 2017, 05:49:45 PM »
For god sake stop talking about parish you do not have to play with your parish you can if you want and I think if Gaa players we told that they had to play by the parish well half of all players would drop out some parishes don't work as we have seen in this county and it is because the senior end are bullies so let players play the game without telling them who to play with bk were lucky that they won as I think it was otherwise coming to an end

clonadmad

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #363 on: February 21, 2017, 06:05:30 PM »
A few simple rules which I think would sort a lot of these juvenile amalgamations

1.your first option should be always to amalgamate with a team from within your parish

2.if that option isn't feasible your final option then should be to amalgamate with a club bordering your club.

3.all amalgamations should be from u12 up to u21,no picking or choosing of age grades,all in.

4. All amalgamations should play in A,unless a very good case can be argued otherwise for a particular age group.


oneflewoverthecuckoonest

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #364 on: February 21, 2017, 07:08:21 PM »
can you PRO-PARISH militia please get it into your skulls that Croke Park, CLG headquarters, will not acknowledge the term PARISH, because per the assumption of most, PARISH = CATHOLIC PARISH, CLG will not and cannot condone sectarianism, and to underpin a sport on the geographic boundaries of one religion will not happen in an era when liberal/multicultural snowflakes are calling the shots in Ireland. Individual counties locking themselves into catholic parishes is a dead duck.

perhaps sometimes in the future(Ireland is always  a slow learner and usually ten years behind other countries), the Brexit/Trump style nationalism will sweep Ireland, and Christian conservatism will rise again and political correctness, whereby the liberals walk all over the conservatives may be arrested. at the moment, Ireland is media controlled by the liberal-multiculturalist promoters, and many aspects of nationhood, such as the GAA are being chipped away at.


If you do want to ignore the above, then you must accept that Catholic Dioceses are steadily re-drawing parishes, Ballyfin and Mountrath is now all the one parish, I have not seen one post on this long discussion thread urging an all Ballyfin/Mountrath parish team, why?

Certain posters like Keyser, who I guess is from Borris/Kilc. or other merged new club, love the idea of amalgams and the inevitable wipe out of the smaller entities, his underlying  logic, the smaller clubs are at nothing and better to strengthen the general area through merging clubs.............if we follow this logic, that these smaller clubs(and some not so small) are at nothing because they rarely win.....then why not examine the intercounty scene......

...Laois hurlers in all intercounty grades have zero chance of all Ireland success for the foreseeable future, the footballers ditto.........if someone suggested that laois hurlers merge with offaly and Westmeath, 90% of people would resist the idea and prefer to maintain our(unsuccessful) individual presence/identity rather than join up with others.

That last example is the reason small clubs continue to exist, many expect little bar an odd title once in a generation, these smaller clubs are the focus for a tiny local community, and in an area such as Trumera it binds a small community, delete the club and you diminish the area.

You can whinge all you want about numbers, the secret of success is long term hard work. Rosenallis is the example to hurling clubs to follow, they went back to the juvenile base ten years ago and a decade of graft and good coaching reaped rewards in 2016. Compare with the likes of a basket cases such as Mountrath in the same period.
The lazy, easy solution is to merge, merging will not tackle the lack of groundwork.

if you are a promoter of the idea of reducing the number of adult hurling clubs to 12, and adult football clubs to 16, you should then be agreeable to the idea of the Laois at intercounty level being merged with the likes of Offaly in hurling and football. The idea is not for me on either count, but you can be described as two faced if you want one element and not the other. I suspect the likes of Keyser would want aspect 1 but not the intercounty one.

To give you one example of the potential pitfalls of merging all.  Ten years ago, eight clubs competed in the Sligo Senior Hurling Championship.  Most of the clubs were also competing at senior level in the football code with the same groups of players. Four of the 8 clubs then decided to stop hurling, and the general idea was the players from the 4 withdrawing clubs would join up with the remaining 4 senior hurling clubs.
The theory looked good, in practice out of the 60 odd hurlers who had played senior club hurling with the now defunct  hurling clubs, the following year only 2 transferred and the rest stopped playing. One could expect a symmetry here in laois if the smaller clubs went by the wayside, the majority of their playing pool would no longer be involved in the sport.

In summary, if GAA sport is all about winning, then merge away in hurling and football until you have only 4 or 5 clubs in each code in the county, a long term recipe for disaster.  If the GAA is about far more than winning, then smaller clubs have every right to continue their tradition and they can happily survive on the odd scrap of success. Some mock the idea of club guards of honour at funerals, that is part of the community aspect of the GAA, and if you don't respect that, then you are not a real GAA man/woman.






Keyser Söze

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #365 on: February 21, 2017, 07:38:23 PM »
For god sake stop talking about parish you do not have to play with your parish you can if you want and I think if Gaa players we told that they had to play by the parish well half of all players would drop out some parishes don't work as we have seen in this county and it is because the senior end are bullies so let players play the game without telling them who to play with bk were lucky that they won as I think it was otherwise coming to an end

You are providing no valid reason or argument to allow this- other than the notion that "players don't want to".
First of all I never said anything about parish rule at adult level. But to say "some parishes don't work" is an idle statement that can't be backed up. I'd rephrase that as "some clubs can't agree to work as a parish". And btw, no juvenile player in Ireland is free to simply play for whoever he wants in the GAA. So to say "you can if you want" is not true. We are talking about juvenile players here remember.

The idea that juvenile units can hop into bed with anyone at various grades is no way to run an association. It is first of all to the detriment of the long  term future of any club involved.
Secondly it contributes massively to player drop out. To have a team at U12 and U14 and then decide to join with somebody else (who also had a team at u12 and u14) when this group reaches U16 or minor simply reduces our tiny playing pool even further.
This reduces the playing pool available to these clubs into the future and therefore the playing pool available to our counties.
Allowing this idea of joining up with whoever you want is not a sustainable way to run clubs.


can you PRO-PARISH militia please get it into your skulls that Croke Park, CLG headquarters, will not acknowledge the term PARISH, because per the assumption of most, PARISH = CATHOLIC PARISH, CLG will not and cannot condone sectarianism,


Certain posters like Keyser, who I guess is from Borris/Kilc. or other merged new club, love the idea of amalgams and the inevitable wipe out of the smaller entities, his underlying  logic, the smaller clubs are at nothing and better to strengthen the general area through merging clubs.


You can whinge all you want about numbers, the secret of success is long term hard work. Rosenallis is the example to hurling clubs to follow, they went back to the juvenile base ten years ago and a decade of graft and good coaching reaped rewards in 2016. Compare with the likes of a basket cases such as Mountrath in the same period.
The lazy, easy solution is to merge, merging will not tackle the lack of groundwork.

if you are a promoter of the idea of reducing the number of adult hurling clubs to 12, and adult football clubs to 16, you should then be agreeable to the idea of the Laois at intercounty level being merged with the likes of Offaly in hurling and football. The idea is not for me on either count, but you can be described as two faced if you want one element and not the other. I suspect the likes of Keyser would want aspect 1 but not the intercounty one.

If the GAA is about far more than winning, then smaller clubs have every right to continue their tradition and they can happily survive on the odd scrap of success. Some mock the idea of club guards of honour at funerals, that is part of the community aspect of the GAA, and if you don't respect that, then you are not a real GAA man/woman.

Sorry now, but
1) I am not from Borris/Kilcotton
2) I have never promoted the idea that all smaller clubs should be forced to amalgamate- I have never even hinted at anything like this. Don't assume what my logic is.
3) I have been one of the most vocal on here in praising and highlighting what Rosenallis have done and what the likes of Mountrath, Mountmellick etc have not done.
4) I have said over and over here how it is up to the clubs to use their primary schools to get numbers in.
5) I never suggested that clubs ALL play as a PARISH or that all clubs in each PARISH join up to form one club. But there has to be some structure on juvenile amalgams. You shouldn't be able to hop around the county from one club to the next. The GAA structure works around catchment area, so effectively you are restricted to the club in your area at juvenile level anyways. So substitute the phrase "parish" for "local club" and we are still talking about the same thing.

You have gone on an almighty rant here, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt in that you are mixing me up with another poster.
I have never even hinted at any of the above, and I have regularly posted the exact opposite of what you are saying.

A few simple rules which I think would sort a lot of these juvenile amalgamations

1.your first option should be always to amalgamate with a team from within your parish

2.if that option isn't feasible your final option then should be to amalgamate with a club bordering your club.

3.all amalgamations should be from u12 up to u21,no picking or choosing of age grades,all in.

4. All amalgamations should play in A,unless a very good case can be argued otherwise for a particular age group.

It wouldn't be a bad start, particularly number 3.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 07:53:17 PM by Keyser Söze »
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honest hurler

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #366 on: February 21, 2017, 08:28:11 PM »
valid points fromboth of you but take for example castletown and slieve bloom what a complete mess that pairing was and still the underage stay together is it only for numbers as we have been told that there will never be slieve bloom and castletown together again at senior level gaels is the option and if i am right these two clubs tried to go together as a gaels and castletown i am told would not change colours so now where do we go with parishes any one with some idea on this one

Keyser Söze

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #367 on: February 21, 2017, 08:36:18 PM »
valid points fromboth of you but take for example castletown and slieve bloom what a complete mess that pairing was and still the underage stay together is it only for numbers as we have been told that there will never be slieve bloom and castletown together again at senior level gaels is the option and if i am right these two clubs tried to go together as a gaels and castletown i am told would not change colours so now where do we go with parishes any one with some idea on this one

No idea what has gone on or is going on between the two, but are you suggesting that the solution would be for Castletown and Slieve Bloom to divide into separate juvenile clubs and join up with anyone else they feel like joining up with at different grades?
I don't see what this would do for Castletown, Slieve Bloom or Laois hurling.
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honest hurler

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #368 on: February 21, 2017, 09:03:06 PM »
no im not saying that they divide at juvenile level but if what i hear about colours going on then i think that its just to make up numbers at juvenile level they both have some great players but  they dont bond at all this is just an example of parish at gaa standards

Keyser Söze

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #369 on: February 21, 2017, 09:21:47 PM »
no im not saying that they divide at juvenile level but if what i hear about colours going on then i think that its just to make up numbers at juvenile level they both have some great players but  they dont bond at all this is just an example of parish at gaa standards

That's up to your club and the other club to resolve. But the failures here shouldn't dictate overall policy at CB level.
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hurlingmad

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #370 on: March 09, 2017, 10:08:37 AM »
Guy in work after coming over and telling me that slieve bloom and ballinakill have agreed to gaels team...any truth to this? Is it not too late to join up?

Helix

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #371 on: March 09, 2017, 10:20:19 AM »
Ballinakill are already affiliated as a gaels so it would be easier to be slotted in if this is true. Could well be possible.
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hurlingmad

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #372 on: March 09, 2017, 10:22:36 AM »
Ballinakill are already affiliated as a gaels so it would be easier to be slotted in if this is true. Could well be possible.
iv no idea now but a late solution to a near car crash if true

redsetanta

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #373 on: March 09, 2017, 10:44:42 AM »
Between the U21's winning and this potential outcome there's nothing but good news in here today.................................so far!
The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. VinceLombardi

Unlaoised

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #374 on: March 09, 2017, 02:12:05 PM »
Annanough going in with Clonaslee is a strange one but it should mean a strong team for Clonaslee
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