It's life Jim but not as we know it

[Fuzzman]

Another interesting read from Jim McGuinness where he points out how so many counties now are struggling to live with the top 3 or 4 counties in the country. Teams like Cork, Armagh, Down, Galway and Meath have been left behind in the past 5 years or so whereas they used to be contenders at some stages.

From chatting to an older man I know, Kerry always had money to spend from big fund raisers in the US etc and often had better training organised compared to most counties.


From today's Irish times
Jim McGuinness: All counties equal, but some more equal than others
Amateur? Like Mr Seligman's dogs, most counties feel there's nothing they can do

We were in the television studio in Portlaoise early on Saturday so I got a perfect view of Dublin as they pulled into the ground. Everything about their arrival was impressive.
On the drive down, I noticed that the All-Ireland champions were 200/1 on to win and that Carlow, meanwhile, were 33/1. The scale of the odds disturbed me.
Everyone reads Animal Farm at some stage in school and there is a reason why that line about all animals being equal, but some are more equal than others, has become so widely quoted. You see it in all walks of life. More than ever, it has become the governing truth of Gaelic football.
Everything about Dublin's arrival looked sleek and polished and purposeful. It was an operation. The coach looked good. You could see they had a big support staff in their ranks. The players went about their business; the coaching staff prepared the pitch for their pre-match drills. Everyone had a clearly defined role and they followed it.

And on one level, it was wonderful to see the best team in an amateur sport achieving such a level of sophistication. Dublin have done everything possible to improve themselves as an entity over the last decade and this arrival was a visible manifestation of that.
It reminded me of the way Celtic operate on away days. But then you remember that the GAA is supposed to be an 'amateur organisation'. Maybe the definition of that term needs to be revisited now. Because there are at least two levels within Gaelic football now and the higher tier bears a scant resemblance to the meaning of amateurism as we used to understand it.
So I watched the teams warming up and wondered how we got to this point and where Gaelic football is going. I think the majority of counties are on the verge of relinquishing hope. And I believe that GAA headquarters needs to hold an intervention to save Gaelic football from itself.

There is no real opportunity for most young players in the majority of counties to excel
It is becoming obvious that the vast majority of county boards either don't have the willingness or the knowledge of how to live with the small group of elite counties that have set the standard for the past decade. So what can be done?
During the week, I caught some of a debate on the British election in which Jeremy Corbyn was hammering home the need to scrap tuition fees so that kids from all walks of life could get a fairer chance of a good education.
The statistics showed that kids from less privileged backgrounds just weren't getting the same opportunity in education, and therefore in life, as those from more advantaged backgrounds.
The same argument pertains in the GAA now. There is no real opportunity for most young players in the majority of counties to excel. We could see that in Portlaoise on Saturday. Carlow came with a clear, well-worked game plan and performed with boldness of intent and real courage. They were still soundly beaten by a Dublin team that was in third gear.
Deep down, the players on both sides and those of us watching knew there was a gulf between the sides. It's not about natural ability: it is about all the support systems behind Dublin and the other strong counties. It creates an environment of inequality.
If you are a Division Three or Four player trying to get ready to take on the elite players, how are you supposed to look your opponent in the eye and think: "I am ready for you." You cannot. Because you know that it's a lie.
Studying Dublin's record during the week I was astonished to see that they have lost just twice in Leinster since 2004. That has been turning around in my head ever since. It's a dizzying thought.
The world was a very different place 13 years ago. At that time, there was no inkling of this separation or gulf defining Gaelic football. But that is what has happened.
Tyrone prised their foot in the door around then and established themselves as a top-tier county. Their first All-Ireland success, coupled with an incredible fund-raising culture, enabled them to build a state of the art facility and put a huge emphasis on coaching. They laid success for subsequent generations to walk in the door to a system and culture that is in place.
Tyrone's centre of excellence in Garvaghy.
Tyrone's centre of excellence in Garvaghy.
Kerry's biggest feature is that kids in that county aspire to wear the jersey. Mayo has a very strong football tradition and are driven by the hope of emancipating the county from the pain of coming so close so often. Galway has an assured sense of its own place. Donegal have managed to thrive after making a breakthrough in 2012, but I would be less certain of their ability to stay in that top tier unless football is resourced properly at board level.
The point is that all of these counties thrive on a kind of cause. It's what creates the internal energy. Most counties don't have that resource right now.
In 1997, I went I went down to Tralee to college. We won the Sigerson the following year.
The competition was actually held in Tralee. Because of that, we stayed in Killarney to prepare and we were put up in a very nice hotel. I remember that when we arrived, there was a flip chart in the corner of the meeting room and every single waking hour and detail was accounted for. I had never seen that at club or county level before. It was a level of organisation and a professionalisation of attitude instilled by Val Andrews and, later, Vinny O'Shea.

People made sacrifices. Moynihan was driving over from Glenflesk for 7am sessions
So we won the thing three years in a row. UCC were our big local rivals. When we would play, they often chanted "Come on, College." The message was that they were playing for a proper university while we were "IT" students.
The 1999 Sigerson was played in Belfast. In the Queen's students union on the night we were celebrating, the UCC lads started singing "Ye bought the Sigerson." And the Tralee gang was singing back "We've got the cup and we can't get rid of it."
It's well known that the Tralee team was stacked with All-Ireland winners and players like Michael Donnellan, Seamus Moynihan and Pádraic Joyce. And we all got scholarships and we walked into this terrific training system.
Now, people made sacrifices. Moynihan was driving over from Glenflesk for 7am sessions. It wasn't a professional set up. But in a way, we did buy those Sigersons through the quality of the set-up. The other teams weren't in a position to match what Tralee had just then. That's what is going on an inter-county level now.
Next summer, the Super Eight will be the big innovation. I'd really love to know what the GAA thinks that term "Super Eight" says to the other 25 counties. I feel it will further convince them to believe that there is nothing they can do about the situation.

In the late 1960s, an American psychologist named Martin Seligman carried out a series of experiments using dogs grouped in harnesses who were subjected to electric shocks. One group could end the shocks by pressing a lever with their paws. But the third group could not and learned to believe that the shocks were inescapable.
In the next part of the experiment, the same group of dogs were placed in an area divided into boxes with low partitions. They could escape the shocks on one side by simply jumping the partition to the other side. But most of the dogs in the third group still believed they could do nothing to escape their fate and simply lay down and accepted the shock time and time again.
Seligman termed this behaviour "learned helplessness". I think it describes the attitudes within many county boards right now. They simply exist. They believe that there is nothing they can really do to live with the big counties.
There will always be strong counties. But the GAA can make the game fairer.
Finance is one obvious area that is ripe for reform. The big counties like Kerry and Dublin have terrific brands. But if the GAA is a genuine amateur organisation and if it is proposing its marquee competition, the All-Ireland championship, as a fair contest, then how can four or five counties use their financial worth to shoot past the opposition? In a professional, commercial context, that is absolutely fine. But it is, by definition, unfair in an amateur arena.
What if that money was then pooled centrally and used to set up a nationwide coaching apparatus
What would happen, for instance, if rather than every county chasing its own sponsor, there was one central sponsor of every county in the championship?
Let's say that it is Coca-Cola. So every team, from Dublin to Carlow wears that logo on its shirt. AIG is willing to give Dublin €4 million. Bayern Munich has agreed a deal with Adidas for €900 million over 10 years. So could a uniform sponsorship deliver, say, €10 million to the GAA per annum? Surely that's not too much of a stretch.

What if that money was then pooled centrally and used to set up a nationwide coaching apparatus with a national high performance director and a high performance manager in each county? This would give young players the same access to coaching and benefits at primary, secondary and club level.
What if every county rolled out a nationalised programme incorporating everything from coaching to S&C to nutrition so that they have a chance to be the very best they can be?
I think that would change the mindset immediately. Dublin will always be a strong football county because they have 1.4 million people and they have a system in place now. So too will Kerry. But at least if a county like Carlow has a fairer share of funding, then the standards in those counties will rise.
In 2004, Armagh were probably the envy of most counties. They had a brilliant team and a terrific manager and a clear vision of how they wanted to play. They were driven, conscientious and ambitious. I think they were among the last of the old GAA pattern of an exceptional team "coming along" every so often.
The county gets a lift and interest becomes intense and then that team fades and things quieten down again.
Those rules don't apply any more to the elite counties. This particular Dublin team will fade. But Dublin as an entity won't. I believe the same is true of Kerry and also Tyrone.

After that, it becomes more difficult to predict. I think there is a distinct danger of Gaelic football reflecting the hurling championship, with a handful of counties playing on an entirely different plane.
Like Mr Seligman's poor dogs, have come to feel that there is nothing they can do about it
But there is also a bleaker possibility that the entire championship will be reduced to a two-horse race. The best counties will keep pushing boundaries and trying to improve. Why wouldn't they? They would be crazy not to.
The opposite will become true for those counties who, like Mr Seligman's poor dogs, have come to feel that there is nothing they can do about it. They will lie there and accept their fate. We have seen this happen in too many championship games already this summer and there is worse to come.
The GAA must either act fast to change the collective thinking or else give up the pretence that the championship is a competition open to all counties.

[Syferus]

Jim talks more sense out of the hotseat than in it.

Zulu want to chime in to whitewash another fine monetary mess?

[seafoid]

There no reason given as to why counties in the top 5 or whatever can extend their dominance as the current teams fade. Over the last 30 years Kerry got a second wind 84-86 and Meath came back for a second helping in 96 and 99. AFAIK that was it.
Tyrone have a very good system but they have been huffing and puffing for a few years without doing anything. Kildare are making shapes. Galway should improve. Monaghan, Donegal and Mayo probably won't come up with the players required to compete right at the top. Dublin have underperformed for at least 2 decades. Maybe now is just mean reversion. If it had been Boylan era Meath or mid 00s Tyrone rather than Mayo in those 2 finals perhaps they wouldn't have won 4 since 2011. 

[Eamonnca1]

If fundraising is centralized and taken out of the hands of county boards then we'd be talking about Croke Park taking charge of raising funds for the counties. Do we really want that or would county boards still prefer to control their own destiny?

Another option would be to let the fundraising continue as is, but levy a "tax" on funds raised by top tier counties that could be redistributed to lower tier counties. Two potential drawbacks with that would be that it would dilute the incentive to raise funds and create an incentive to take more payments under the table and off the books, but it might have a shot at restoring some sort of competitive balance.

[Syferus]

If fundraising is centralized and taken out of the hands of county boards then we'd be talking about Croke Park taking charge of raising funds for the counties. Do we really want that or would county boards still prefer to control their own destiny?

Another option would be to let the fundraising continue as is, but levy a "tax" on funds raised by top tier counties that could be redistributed to lower tier counties. Two potential drawbacks with that would be that it would dilute the incentive to raise funds and create an incentive to take more payments under the table and off the books, but it might have a shot at restoring some sort of competitive balance.

You severely punish counties who can't account for all their expenditure. Oversight is far from impossible and is taken for granted in every other major sport that isn't football.

[Eamonnca1]

Is it though? Peter Quinn once said it was impossible to even find the tables under which payments to managers were being hidden.

[magpie seanie]

I think that's a good article. The suggestion has merit. I often think county boards get caught up in running and fundraising for the county game and totally forget the bread and butter - the clubs. I wouldn't agree with McGuinness on everything but that was a good piece.

[Hound]

From today's Irish times
Jim McGuinness: All counties equal, but some more equal than others
Amateur? Like Mr Seligman's dogs, most counties feel there's nothing they can do

On the drive down, I noticed that the All-Ireland champions were 200/1 on to win and that Carlow, meanwhile, were 33/1. The scale of the odds disturbed me.

Everything about Dublin's arrival looked sleek and polished and purposeful. It was an operation. The coach looked good. You could see they had a big support staff in their ranks. The players went about their business; the coaching staff prepared the pitch for their pre-match drills. Everyone had a clearly defined role and they followed it.

And on one level, it was wonderful to see the best team in an amateur sport achieving such a level of sophistication. Dublin have done everything possible to improve themselves as an entity over the last decade and this arrival was a visible manifestation of that.

For all the reasonable points he may write, why does feel like he has to put nonsense in too?

29 years ago when Dubs played Carlow, the odds would have been identical. Why does that disturb him now?
By far the most disturbing factor from last weekend was the scale of the demolition Kildare did on Laois. Not a word about that.

The bus and drills stuff is just the absolute height of nonsense!! Every feckin county team arrives in a ground in a decent bus and has good pre-match drills! FFS.

[ck]

From today's Irish times
Jim McGuinness: All counties equal, but some more equal than others
Amateur? Like Mr Seligman's dogs, most counties feel there's nothing they can do

On the drive down, I noticed that the All-Ireland champions were 200/1 on to win and that Carlow, meanwhile, were 33/1. The scale of the odds disturbed me.

Everything about Dublin's arrival looked sleek and polished and purposeful. It was an operation. The coach looked good. You could see they had a big support staff in their ranks. The players went about their business; the coaching staff prepared the pitch for their pre-match drills. Everyone had a clearly defined role and they followed it.

And on one level, it was wonderful to see the best team in an amateur sport achieving such a level of sophistication. Dublin have done everything possible to improve themselves as an entity over the last decade and this arrival was a visible manifestation of that.

For all the reasonable points he may write, why does feel like he has to put nonsense in too?

29 years ago when Dubs played Carlow, the odds would have been identical. Why does that disturb him now?
By far the most disturbing factor from last weekend was the scale of the demolition Kildare did on Laois. Not a word about that.

The bus and drills stuff is just the absolute height of nonsense!! Every feckin county team arrives in a ground in a decent bus and has good pre-match drills! FFS.

Agree with this.
To use a fancy bus and coach setting up the warm up drills as an example of Dublin being ahead of the pack is some statement. I'd be more akin to the notion Dublin have a 3rd of the country living in the bloody county with some Dublin clubs having more registered players than some counties do. Of course money plays a massive role but again the money is only there because of the success (or chances of success) and the success is based on the aforementioned population, culture and tradition.

If every county WERE actually equal in terms of funding, coaching, preparation etc etc the number of clubs and players would still not change. The only way to really ensure equality would be to re-draw the county borders and give each similar populations and club talent numbers to draw from. A bit like soccer - money talks, but it's actually population that is the key. Man Utd have 350 scouts drawing from talent across the world. Oxford Utd have 8 full time scouts drawing from talent in Mid England. Yes money dictates these but the access to numbers and population is what the money ultimately buys in soccer. In GAA, money won't buy you increased population!

[screenexile]

From today's Irish times
Jim McGuinness: All counties equal, but some more equal than others
Amateur? Like Mr Seligman's dogs, most counties feel there's nothing they can do

On the drive down, I noticed that the All-Ireland champions were 200/1 on to win and that Carlow, meanwhile, were 33/1. The scale of the odds disturbed me.

Everything about Dublin's arrival looked sleek and polished and purposeful. It was an operation. The coach looked good. You could see they had a big support staff in their ranks. The players went about their business; the coaching staff prepared the pitch for their pre-match drills. Everyone had a clearly defined role and they followed it.

And on one level, it was wonderful to see the best team in an amateur sport achieving such a level of sophistication. Dublin have done everything possible to improve themselves as an entity over the last decade and this arrival was a visible manifestation of that.

For all the reasonable points he may write, why does feel like he has to put nonsense in too?

29 years ago when Dubs played Carlow, the odds would have been identical. Why does that disturb him now?
By far the most disturbing factor from last weekend was the scale of the demolition Kildare did on Laois. Not a word about that.

The bus and drills stuff is just the absolute height of nonsense!! Every feckin county team arrives in a ground in a decent bus and has good pre-match drills! FFS.

Not at all that's just the Rossies!!

[Hound]

I'd be more akin to the notion Dublin have a 3rd of the country living in the bloody county with some Dublin clubs having more registered players than some counties do. Of course money plays a massive role but again the money is only there because of the success (or chances of success) and the success is based on the aforementioned population, culture and tradition.

If every county WERE actually equal in terms of funding, coaching, preparation etc etc the number of clubs and players would still not change. The only way to really ensure equality would be to re-draw the county borders and give each similar populations and club talent numbers to draw from. A bit like soccer - money talks, but it's actually population that is the key. Man Utd have 350 scouts drawing from talent across the world. Oxford Utd have 8 full time scouts drawing from talent in Mid England. Yes money dictates these but the access to numbers and population is what the money ultimately buys in soccer. In GAA, money won't buy you increased population!

And of course you'd agree the population problem is not Dublin's fault! We're just too darned attractive!

I'd say every club in Dublin has country lads in important positions on the admin and/or coaching sides - some would have a majority of country lads in such positions.

There hasn't been a Dublin club champion who did not have important country lads in their team since Erin's Isle in the days of Keith Barr and Mick Deegan.

What we need is to build access and infrastructure between Cork-Limerick-Galway to make it a viable alternative to Dublin, which would help maintain and build population in all counties.

[Fuzzman]

I think some of ye are missing the point that Jim's making here.

It's more to do with that the top counties like Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and Donegal have pushed ahead of the others in almost all aspects of the sport.
For years it was all about football talent and when a good players came along at a certain time then your team did well but the whole setup in the top counties is so much more professional now. From underage set up, to development squads, to the number of top coaches, their diet, their S&C, their whole lifestyle. Hardly any successful players drink any more and so it's not just about population but it's about how counties approach the game nowadays. It's more like a lifestyle now rather than a sport.
Other counties that don't have the same resources or don't think it is worth their while putting in the same effort.
Cork's demise for me over the past 5 or 6 years is phenomenal as they had such a great squad of athletes back in 2009-10 but they didn't seem to be interested in putting in the hard work that say Donegal did to go from zero to heroes.

Am I right to say that not only did McGuinness change the way Donegal played and thought about the game but he also brought in new sponsors and brought fund raising to a new level. Compare the rise of Monaghan which is quite a small county to the fall of Derry, Armagh and Down in recent times.

Dublin have always had the potential but just never seemed to get themselves organised enough but since Pat Gilroy came along they have got their house in order and used all the advantages that they had to become a very strong force.

[StGallsGAA]

Teams like Cork, Armagh, Down, Galway and Meath have been left behind in the past 5 years or so whereas they used to be contenders at some stages.

Meath and Down have been left behind for the past 5 years?  More like past 20 years!  Armagh for the  past 10!

[seafoid]

I think some of ye are missing the point that Jim's making here.

It's more to do with that the top counties like Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and Donegal have pushed ahead of the others in almost all aspects of the sport.
For years it was all about football talent and when a good players came along at a certain time then your team did well but the whole setup in the top counties is so much more professional now. From underage set up, to development squads, to the number of top coaches, their diet, their S&C, their whole lifestyle. Hardly any successful players drink any more and so it's not just about population but it's about how counties approach the game nowadays. It's more like a lifestyle now rather than a sport.
Other counties that don't have the same resources or don't think it is worth their while putting in the same effort.
Cork's demise for me over the past 5 or 6 years is phenomenal as they had such a great squad of athletes back in 2009-10 but they didn't seem to be interested in putting in the hard work that say Donegal did to go from zero to heroes.

Am I right to say that not only did McGuinness change the way Donegal played and thought about the game but he also brought in new sponsors and brought fund raising to a new level. Compare the rise of Monaghan which is quite a small county to the fall of Derry, Armagh and Down in recent times.

Dublin have always had the potential but just never seemed to get themselves organised enough but since Pat Gilroy came along they have got their house in order and used all the advantages that they had to become a very strong force.

I wonder how much of it is cyclical. Has any county managed the holy grail of permanent youth for its footballers?
I seem to recall the Dubs taking a long time to get to the all Ireland in 2011. Cork lost 2 all Irelands before they won the one. They were also on the go a while.  Most teams after winning a Sam or 2 go back to mediocrity. Donegal are taking the scenic route.

What is interesting about now is that 2 of the upcoming teams, Tyrone and Monaghan, haven't been able to dislodge the incumbents. 

[armaghniac]

Monaghan is on the small side to actually win out. But is Monaghan's good performance down to spending more money than Meath or Armagh?