All-Ireland Football

[Kerry Mike]

Even their recent victories usually consisted of one tough game either against Armagh or Cork and then easy wins v Mayo.

Last year we beat the Ulster champions in a quarter final, the Munster champions in the Semi final and the Connacht champions in the All Ireland. Yet it's still seen in some quarters as another "easy" All Ireland for Kerry. This after two tough games against Cork in the Munster final. I can guarantee you Kerry did not set out last year to play poorly and to lose a Munster championship and come through the easy back door. We never wanted the back door, and if it was not there we would not have won Sam last year, but you play the system thats there, we regrouped made the most of our second chance as Tyrone and others have done in the past.

The level of intensity in Ulster is much higher, even if it does lead to uglier football but it means even matches against the 'weaker teams' can be tough enough. (Fermanagh)

Yes true to a certain extent but this is only a recent effect and there have been many one sided games too in Ulster in the distant past and more recently in 2004 Armagh beat Monaghan by 15 points, and Donegal by 11. In 2005 Tyrone beat Cavan in an Ulster semi final by 21 points. 2006 was more evenly matched , but how a team of Armagh's potential could draw with teams of the caliber of Monaghan and Fermanagh, maybe shows that they, Armagh, were not focussed on winning their bread and butter provincial games. Or maybe the underdog just rises to the occasion more in Ulster to knock down one of the big boys. We have underdogs too in Munster and we have been in a few scraps over the years with most of them.

Teams seem to be at a more even level in Ulster, but that's not to say thay are at a higher level of skill or fitnass, you can get a cracking game between two evenly matched junior teams and it can be very intense but either one of them will get beaten if they come up against even a decent senior team. The level of intensity last weekend between Donegal and Tyrone was all one sided.

[6th sam]

If you abolish the provincials, then there is only one cup in the year, many teams will not win Sam for decades, but can aspire to a provincial championship.

How many teams aspire to a provincial championship,yet don't aspire to an All-Ireland?

I think we have to change our mindset,and as gaels we have a responsibility to ensure optimal development of our games in a new era,where soccer and Rugby are a bigger challenge than ever before.

We have a plethora of quality venues throughout the country ,which are rarely filled.
We bum and blow about big crowds @ GAA matches ,but that's because there's so few meaningful GAA matches each year-that when they occur,they're obviously  going to be attractive,and thereby fill stadia.

Kerry's dominance in GF is not an accident ,and not due to any secret formula-In reality Kerry has a large GAA playing base ,and no significant competition from other sports.Their seasonal preparation involves only having to peak for 4 games a year.This is ridiculously unfair to other counties.I think Kerry Mike's jealous guarding of the current system speaks for itself.

In our own county for example,if GAA is going to optimally compete for the hearts and minds of our youth--we need to be filling Newry as many times a year as possible.Capacity venues are priceless,yet the current system doesn't allow for  enough of these fixtures.The capacity Croke park games involving Dublin have been the single biggest marketing tool for the GAA in recent years.

Personally I think there needs to be a guarantee of meaningful games for EVERY county compressed throughout the summer months,with the rest of the year dedicated to club/schools/colleges football,and a proper closed season.During the county season club football will continue but without county players,and the All-Ireland series should be finished by the end of August,to allow all players back to their clubs earlier.

I think this needs to driven by Player welfare,club representatives and marketing experts.

We have superb games,intense rivalries,outstanding venues,but burnt-out players.The current provincial system/league structure is a millstone around our necks,preventing optimal development of the GAA-and needs to be ditched!

Personally,I would favour   a league immediately pre-championship for seeding-leading into a knockout championship with qualifiers and a  serious Tommy Murphy with genuine rewarding of winners/runners up.

Tommy Murphy should be akin to an intermediate club championship-a genuine achievement in itself,rewarded by an upgrade the following year.The Tommy Murphy cup,currently is an example how negative publicity and poor marketing can trivialise a genuinely good concept.

[magpie seanie]

Kerry's dominance in GF is not an accident ,and not due to any secret formula-In reality Kerry has a large GAA playing base ,and no significant competition from other sports.Their seasonal preparation involves only having to peak for 4 games a year.This is ridiculously unfair to other counties.

I think this is an absolute red herring as evidenced by the argument that Galway hurlers haven't won bucket loads of All-Irelands. The reason Kerry are so good in my view is that their club structures are the best in the land BY A MILE. Tradition etc plays a huge part in it too I accept but the fact is that if you are a good young fella playing football in Kerry, no matter what level or club, you will get every chance and encouragement to improve, make a name for yourself and if good enough break through to wear the green and gold. It's not the case in my county and I dare say alot of other counties.

[Billys Boots]

The reason Kerry are so good in my view is that their club structures are the best in the land BY A MILE.

I agree 100% Seanie.

[6th sam]

Kerry's dominance in GF is not an accident ,and not due to any secret formula-In reality Kerry has a large GAA playing base ,and no significant competition from other sports.Their seasonal preparation involves only having to peak for 4 games a year.This is ridiculously unfair to other counties.

I think this is an absolute red herring as evidenced by the argument that Galway hurlers haven't won bucket loads of All-Irelands. The reason Kerry are so good in my view is that their club structures are the best in the land BY A MILE. Tradition etc plays a huge part in it too I accept but the fact is that if you are a good young fella playing football in Kerry, no matter what level or club, you will get every chance and encouragement to improve, make a name for yourself and if good enough break through to wear the green and gold. It's not the case in my county and I dare say alot of other counties.

Galway's hurlers are not comparable to Kerry footballers.They come into the All-Ireland series completely cold,and in Galway there is real competition form other sports such as rugby and soccer.Also their resources are thin because they are strong at all GAA sports.

Part of the reason why young Kerry footballers develop so well,is because they have been brought up in an atmoshere of success,probably coached by an All-Ireland winner,and they know that if they get onto a Kerry squad ,they're almost guaranteed an All-Ireland medal.
Why should the rest of us be robbed of that opportunity.Having seen Kerry club football at first hand,I'm not convinced they have concocted a master plan for club football.However,the AI system favours their clubs as well,because they know that their county team every year will only be involved in meaningful games from late June to September ,and club football can continue without county players in the summer months,with county players being available for their clubs for the rest of the year.Again,this ideal club structure is not available to other counties,given our less predictable seasons.
Look at Sligo-most recent success via qualifiers,whereas the provincial system hasn't been kind to them.Look what a run of summer games achieved for them .A new system would revitalise  counties like Sligo,by guaranteeing a number of meaningful summer games,and allowing more regular club fixtures.

This isn't sour grapes about Kerry,good luck to them for what they've achieved,but the current system is heavily weighted in their favour-Any other sport would laugh at the unfairness of our All-Ireland series-Indeed I'm surprised Fergal Logan hasn't challenged it under European equality legislation--now there's an idea -anybody know Fergal's mobile no,or will I have to ask Paddy Bradley again

[Gnevin]

Kerry's dominance in GF is not an accident ,and not due to any secret formula-In reality Kerry has a large GAA playing base ,and no significant competition from other sports.Their seasonal preparation involves only having to peak for 4 games a year.This is ridiculously unfair to other counties.

I think this is an absolute red herring as evidenced by the argument that Galway hurlers haven't won bucket loads of All-Irelands. The reason Kerry are so good in my view is that their club structures are the best in the land BY A MILE. Tradition etc plays a huge part in it too I accept but the fact is that if you are a good young fella playing football in Kerry, no matter what level or club, you will get every chance and encouragement to improve, make a name for yourself and if good enough break through to wear the green and gold. It's not the case in my county and I dare say alot of other counties.

Galway's hurlers are not comparable to Kerry footballers.They come into the All-Ireland series completely cold,and in Galway there is real competition form other sports such as rugby and soccer.Also their resources are thin because they are strong at all GAA sports.

Part of the reason why young Kerry footballers develop so well,is because they have been brought up in an atmoshere of success,probably coached by an All-Ireland winner,and they know that if they get onto a Kerry squad ,they're almost guaranteed an All-Ireland medal.
Why should the rest of us be robbed of that opportunity.Having seen Kerry club football at first hand,I'm not convinced they have a magic formula at club level.
Look at Sligo-most recent success via qualifiers,whereas the provincial system hasn't been kind to them.Look what a run of summer games achieved for them .A new system would revitalise  counties like Sligo,by guaranteeing a number of meaningful summer games.

This isn't sour grapes about Kerry,good luck to them for what they've achieved,but the current system is heavily weighted in their favour-Any other sport would laugh at the unfairness of our All-Ireland series-Indeed I'm surprised Fergal Logan hasn't challenged it under European equality legislation!!

Kerry you claim had an easy ride to the AI  but last year so did Dublin and they where caught out . So that doesn't balance out . Galway and Mayo have had periods of easy rides to the AI to yet they have won like kerry

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Regardless of (perceived) easy or tough provincial passages, the only guaranteed fair way, is for all teams to play the same number of games.

The current set-up is neither fish nor fowl, can neither swim nor fly, time it was overhauled.

[magpie seanie]

Look at Sligo-most recent success via qualifiers,whereas the provincial system hasn't been kind to them.Look what a run of summer games achieved for them

All it achieved was make us fell good for a while and let people who don't know much about GAA know we had a few decent footballers along with Eamonn O'Hara. You ask any of the players and they'd swap those qualifier wins for a medal.

A new system would revitalise  counties like Sligo,by guaranteeing a number of meaningful summer games.

To be honest if you think the structure of senior inter county competition would have a marked effect on the standard of our county team the I'd have to oppose this notion strongly. As for revitalising "counties like Sligo" I'd be more concerned about the ones we beat in the qualifiers.  

in Galway there is real competition form other sports such as rugby and soccer

In Kerry both those sports are pretty strong too. I'm sure the Kerry bucks will bear me out on that.

[believebelive]

To me the biggest problem with the current system is that the county cmpetitive season lasts for nine months. Throw in pre season and you have some counties trainng for 11 months of the year. Now in my opinion the competitions from Jan to May, namely the league and the provincial warm ups such as FBD league and McKenna Cup are meaningless competitions. The provinicial championships in the eyes of some have also, at the very least, become a lot less important than they once were. As a result the business end of the All Ireland for some counties (Cork, Kerry, Galway and Mayo) most years does not begin until August by which time they are either in the last 12 or the quarter final.
This is unfair - plain and simple.
The current system means that from October to May (and for some counties August) they are playing meaningless matches that with respect to their overall goal are not important.
I simply believe that the competitons suc as the FBD and the McKenna Cup aswell as the NFL be scrapped, the Provincial Championships be played off on a league format between Jan and March and then a knockout competition, with a back door system built in, played between April and early August.
I believe that the only way to make the All Ireland fair is to have teams playing the same number of games and also having  peak for the same time.
But this is not my primary reason for changing the current system. I really want to change it because I think it is crippiling the club structure. While a county is involved a club plays second fiddle, always has and always will. But by filling up most of the footballing year with county action we have prolonged this period of second fiddle playing to most of the year!
The clubs is where we will capture the hearts and minds of the youth of Ireland. Yes glamour ties involving the county team is all well and good but if we are to breed a strong association where people are committed Gaels and not merely sunshine supporters we must offer a strong association at club level. How can we do this when there is no respect shown for the club. How many times do county players train with their clubs? Are clubs afforded the same respect in terms of preparation for their championship as the county is?
I fear that we have got carreid away with the razzamatazz ofrecent All Ireland's and we have taken our eye off the ball. We have what looks like a vibrant bustling organisation but at grass roots level I fear we are crumbling.

[6th sam]

 magpie seanie,
Obviously success in the qualifiers,gave you a bit of boost ,if you're still blowing about last year's victory over us

I didn't mean to patronise you,but I think it's good for the GAA to see relatively new kids on the block making an impact:sligo,fermanagh,laois,wexford.
Though my own county,have had no senior success in recent years,we did sample success in the 90s,and have had underage success more recently.I'd love to be supporting the mourne county in major games again,but that is not the main thrust of my argument.

All I want is for GAA to reach it's potential.As a child and an adult ,I attended as many games as I could,but often this would amount to 1-2 games per year.Soccer fans on the other hand can watch numerous meaningul matches for 10 months of the year.Even Irish league soccer fans can watch their team weekly.
How great would it be to be able to take my own kids to packed stadia to support their team 9-10 games every summer.

The provincial series "magic" can easily be replaced by novel pairings such as Kerry-Dublin,Cork-Tyrone,Sligo-Fermanagh,Down-Meath, week in/week out.

I agree with "believe,believe",regarding club football-it is the bedrock of our association,and caters for >90% of our playing members.A more compact county season from  late May to August,allows county players more time with their clubs,and will allow for club competitions to continue without  county players in the summer.Dare I say,like the way Heneken cup and Magniers league operate in rugby.

If those that jealously guard the old system are convinced of its merits-allow a 1 year trial of the new system,and see if there is a desire to return.
Time to change!

[GalwayBayBoy]

The provincial series "magic" can easily be replaced by novel pairings such as Kerry-Dublin,Cork-Tyrone,Sligo-Fermanagh,Down-Meath, week in/week out.

In fairness we get many games such as those in the qualifiers already. I also wonder how many people would attend for example a Sligo v Fermanagh if they had both lost their first few games in a round robin system and had nothing to play for? My guess is not very many.

Plus you could take the example of Sligo who haven't won a Connacht title in 32 years. To win one would be a huge deal for them and lead to great celebrations. The thought of winning a provincial title is what keeps many smaller counties going.

[Fishead_Sam]

The provincial series "magic" can easily be replaced by novel pairings such as Kerry-Dublin,Cork-Tyrone,Sligo-Fermanagh,Down-Meath, week in/week out.

In fairness we get many games such as those in the qualifiers already. I also wonder how many people would attend for example a Sligo v Fermanagh if they had both lost their first few games in a round robin system and had nothing to play for? My guess is not very many.

Plus you could take the example of Sligo who haven't won a Connacht title in 32 years. To win one would be a huge deal for them and lead to great celebrations. The thought of winning a provincial title is what keeps many smaller counties going.

GalwayBayBoy I think the Provincals are devalued for the likes of Mayo, Galway, Kerry, Armagh, Tyrone & Dublin who win them on a regular basis but for the likes of Limerick, Sligo, Leitrim, Fermanagh, Donegal, Cavan, Kildare, Offaly etc. it would be a very big deal. However the very fact that it seems to be so easy for the 6 I mentioned as winning it regularly to win, when another county wins it it makes it even sweeter, my phone is full of texts since Mayo lost of friends from Sligo, Offaly & Wexford who are still in the Championship & like pointing it out [they seem to have forgot we still in the Championship too, but I know what they mean]

[6th sam]

In reply to Galway Boy,Interesting that you want to continue a system that deprives your neighbours of a title for 32 years!Interesting that the only posters on here defending the current system are from connacht (5 counties) or munster (6 counties,only 2 serious contenders)

Regarding the qualifiers,even for the least glamourous ties,they attract larger attendances in summer than a comparable league match in winter!

In the new system every game has meaning,with those knocked out 1st entering a genuinely meaningful Tommy Murphy,and those that remain only 1 game away from an all-ireland 1/4 final.
With every county guaranteed summer football,and club football revitalised.

[believebelive]

Mid Louth , as I have said before I do not doubt for one second the joy and emtion winning a Provincial title would bring to the likes of Louth, Sligo, Fermanagh, Wexford etc For them the winning a Provincial title would not be devalued but and its a big but winning a provincial title is not as important as it used to be to the likes of Armagh, Dublin, Cork, Kerry, Mayo, Galyway and Tyrone. With respect to this I believe that as a whole the Provincial Championships have become devalued compared to what they were before the introduction of the backdoor.
I truly believe that the only way we are going to get to a stage where the club is on an equal footing with the county is to have two seperate seasons. They only way to do this is to streamline the county season. Scraping the Provincial Championships and playing a 32 county straight knock out with a back door system is the fairest system of all and I think would be for the greatre good of the Association in the long run.

[believebelive]

Shit - i can't get the hang of that quote button thing - my thoughts are the last few lines of the quote box.