Cookstown Incident

Started by oakleaflad, March 18, 2019, 12:43:55 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

five points

Quote from: trailer on March 20, 2019, 02:32:46 PM
You said "It's only safe because people have manners." ONLY! ONLY!

You're nitpicking now. Read the totality of what I said, which included the point that if you don't have manners, you will be quickly lifted for it.  But in confined spaces at rush hour, safety does depend on that.

LeoMc

Quote from: five points on March 20, 2019, 02:36:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 20, 2019, 02:32:46 PM
You said "It's only safe because people have manners." ONLY! ONLY!

You're nitpicking now. Read the totality of what I said, which included the point that if you don't have manners, you will be quickly lifted for it.  But in confined spaces at rush hour, safety does depend on that.
Quickly lifted for it would indicate some form of policing of the crowd!

five points

Quote from: LeoMc on March 20, 2019, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: five points on March 20, 2019, 02:36:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 20, 2019, 02:32:46 PM
You said "It's only safe because people have manners." ONLY! ONLY!

You're nitpicking now. Read the totality of what I said, which included the point that if you don't have manners, you will be quickly lifted for it.  But in confined spaces at rush hour, safety does depend on that.
Quickly lifted for it would indicate some form of policing of the crowd!

Of course it does. For example, they're always taking beggars and drunks out of congested rush-hour areas. But if a large crowd got rowdy at at a given time, they'd be in bother. So the system does depend on the broad generality of people having manners.

awideisneverasgood

Exactly if its safe because people have manners then why do they need safety plans, technology and close policing???

five points

Quote from: awideisneverasgood on March 20, 2019, 02:45:24 PM
Exactly if its safe because people have manners then why do they need safety plans, technology and close policing???

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

general_lee

Quote from: WT4E on March 20, 2019, 01:08:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 10:17:17 AM
While I think it's a bit early to be apportioning blame I don't think you can really compare what happened at Hillsborough to what happened in Cookstown. This incident was caused by young people shoving and pushing, and the chances are some if not all of them were drunk. See the young girls Facebook post which has gone viral.

Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 12:48:46 PM
I'm not denying lack of security was a factor.

I see you're changing your angle now. The fact in your original post you choose to pick out the children pushing from the first hand account on facebook and not that there was a lack of support from any of the security staff says to me you where shifting blame away from the hotel security to the children involved and therefore denying lack of security. If half the rumours (which I wont post for obvious reasons) I have heard about what security where up to when this was going on are true.... I hope the idiots on hear blaming children front up and apologise.
It is literally the first thing that the girl mentions. She goes onto say that people continued to laugh and push while she screamed at the top of her lungs for them to stop. I don't have an "angle"; there are a range of people who are/could be responsible. That could range from the door staff, the hotel owner, the H&S officers at mid Ulster council, the bus hire companies to the wee c***ts at the back who continued to push. The three young people who lost their lives are totally blameless. It's a tragedy and obviously one that should have been avoided. Hopefully the families of the deceased get answers as to why this was allowed to happen.

awideisneverasgood

So when a large crowd is in an area which has a proper safety plan and is monitored by experienced staff and police aided by technology, then they will behave as expected (have manners) in most cases and the ones that don't will be lifted?




WT4E

Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 03:01:42 PM
Quote from: WT4E on March 20, 2019, 01:08:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 10:17:17 AM
While I think it's a bit early to be apportioning blame I don't think you can really compare what happened at Hillsborough to what happened in Cookstown. This incident was caused by young people shoving and pushing, and the chances are some if not all of them were drunk. See the young girls Facebook post which has gone viral.

Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 12:48:46 PM
I'm not denying lack of security was a factor.

I see you're changing your angle now. The fact in your original post you choose to pick out the children pushing from the first hand account on facebook and not that there was a lack of support from any of the security staff says to me you where shifting blame away from the hotel security to the children involved and therefore denying lack of security. If half the rumours (which I wont post for obvious reasons) I have heard about what security where up to when this was going on are true.... I hope the idiots on hear blaming children front up and apologise.
It is literally the first thing that the girl mentions. She goes onto say that people continued to laugh and push while she screamed at the top of her lungs for them to stop. I don't have an "angle"; there are a range of people who are/could be responsible. That could range from the door staff, the hotel owner, the H&S officers at mid Ulster council, the bus hire companies to the wee c***ts at the back who continued to push. The three young people who lost their lives are totally blameless. It's a tragedy and obviously one that should have been avoided. Hopefully the families of the deceased get answers as to why this was allowed to happen.

I am liking how your posts are evolving.... opposed to your first post which strangely left out a lot of key details.

Your right its the first thing she mentioned as it was the first thing that happened..... And it shouldn't have happened but had there been appropriate security it would have ended right there and then and then this thread about drinking wouldn't have started!

It is a matter of opinion but the biggest issue and the biggest point this girl was making was the lack of help and the fact that the children had to sort it out themselves in the end. The last paragraph is powerful and I think it is left until the end for a reason.

trailer

Quote from: awideisneverasgood on March 20, 2019, 03:03:41 PM
So when a large crowd is in an area which has a proper safety plan and is monitored by experienced staff and police aided by technology, then they will behave as expected (have manners) in most cases and the ones that don't will be lifted?

5 million people everyday using the London Underground, self policing themselves. How the world should be.

Tony Baloney


general_lee

Quote from: WT4E on March 20, 2019, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 03:01:42 PM
Quote from: WT4E on March 20, 2019, 01:08:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 10:17:17 AM
While I think it's a bit early to be apportioning blame I don't think you can really compare what happened at Hillsborough to what happened in Cookstown. This incident was caused by young people shoving and pushing, and the chances are some if not all of them were drunk. See the young girls Facebook post which has gone viral.

Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 12:48:46 PM
I'm not denying lack of security was a factor.

I see you're changing your angle now. The fact in your original post you choose to pick out the children pushing from the first hand account on facebook and not that there was a lack of support from any of the security staff says to me you where shifting blame away from the hotel security to the children involved and therefore denying lack of security. If half the rumours (which I wont post for obvious reasons) I have heard about what security where up to when this was going on are true.... I hope the idiots on hear blaming children front up and apologise.
It is literally the first thing that the girl mentions. She goes onto say that people continued to laugh and push while she screamed at the top of her lungs for them to stop. I don't have an "angle"; there are a range of people who are/could be responsible. That could range from the door staff, the hotel owner, the H&S officers at mid Ulster council, the bus hire companies to the wee c***ts at the back who continued to push. The three young people who lost their lives are totally blameless. It's a tragedy and obviously one that should have been avoided. Hopefully the families of the deceased get answers as to why this was allowed to happen.

I am liking how your posts are evolving.... opposed to your first post which strangely left out a lot of key details.

Your right its the first thing she mentioned as it was the first thing that happened..... And it shouldn't have happened but had there been appropriate security it would have ended right there and then and then this thread about drinking wouldn't have started!

It is a matter of opinion but the biggest issue and the biggest point this girl was making was the lack of help and the fact that the children had to sort it out themselves in the end. The last paragraph is powerful and I think it is left until the end for a reason.
Maybe because my original response was to you making ridiculous comparisons to Hillsborough. Nothing strange about that. There's still more to come from this (if your rumours are to be believed) and maybe some of us (including myself) should stop posting on the topic for while.

WT4E

Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
Quote from: WT4E on March 20, 2019, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 03:01:42 PM
Quote from: WT4E on March 20, 2019, 01:08:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 10:17:17 AM
While I think it's a bit early to be apportioning blame I don't think you can really compare what happened at Hillsborough to what happened in Cookstown. This incident was caused by young people shoving and pushing, and the chances are some if not all of them were drunk. See the young girls Facebook post which has gone viral.

Quote from: general_lee on March 20, 2019, 12:48:46 PM
I'm not denying lack of security was a factor.

I see you're changing your angle now. The fact in your original post you choose to pick out the children pushing from the first hand account on facebook and not that there was a lack of support from any of the security staff says to me you where shifting blame away from the hotel security to the children involved and therefore denying lack of security. If half the rumours (which I wont post for obvious reasons) I have heard about what security where up to when this was going on are true.... I hope the idiots on hear blaming children front up and apologise.
It is literally the first thing that the girl mentions. She goes onto say that people continued to laugh and push while she screamed at the top of her lungs for them to stop. I don't have an "angle"; there are a range of people who are/could be responsible. That could range from the door staff, the hotel owner, the H&S officers at mid Ulster council, the bus hire companies to the wee c***ts at the back who continued to push. The three young people who lost their lives are totally blameless. It's a tragedy and obviously one that should have been avoided. Hopefully the families of the deceased get answers as to why this was allowed to happen.

I am liking how your posts are evolving.... opposed to your first post which strangely left out a lot of key details.

Your right its the first thing she mentioned as it was the first thing that happened..... And it shouldn't have happened but had there been appropriate security it would have ended right there and then and then this thread about drinking wouldn't have started!

It is a matter of opinion but the biggest issue and the biggest point this girl was making was the lack of help and the fact that the children had to sort it out themselves in the end. The last paragraph is powerful and I think it is left until the end for a reason.
Maybe because my original response was to you making ridiculous comparisons to Hillsborough. Nothing strange about that. There's still more to come from this (if your rumours are to be believed) and maybe some of us (including myself) should stop posting on the topic for while.

I accept your right to stop posting on it - but I still don't think Hillsborough is a ridiculous comparison and I still believe you tried to shift blame in your first post.

quit yo jibbajabba

The 52 yr old man has been rearrested after house search found drugs.

Posted without comment.....

screenexile

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 20, 2019, 04:10:19 PM
The 52 yr old man has been rearrested after house search found drugs.

Posted without comment.....

Not good!!! McElhatton is well known around Mid Ulster and well respected, there was a lot of support for him after this even given the obvious failings...

If this is true that he had intent to supply then I'd imagine that support will disappear fast!!

quit yo jibbajabba

Gettin messy.

And a bit like this thread all gettin away from the fact that 3 young people are dead. And i know ive contributed so gonna try leave it at that for a bit.