Call for a United Iberia

[his holiness nb]

Of course, for political reasons, SF will try their hardest to persuade their supporters that the process is designed to do just that. However, I don't have too much of a problem with that, since I'd always much rather they lie to themselves than lie to me.

Here you go ahead kidding yourself into thinking only SF supporters want a United Ireland 

[Chrisowc]

Its universally recognised in International Law because we have f**k all choice otherwise 

Yet most people in the Republic vote for the good friday agreement as a stepping stone to a United Ireland which will happen when there is a nationalist majority.

But I suppose you disagree and think we all vote for it so we can keep the North British?

I would have thought it was more to do with trying to stop people from killing each other? But there you go.

[Evil Genius]

Its universally recognised in International Law because we have f**k all choice otherwise 

Yet most people in the Republic vote for the good friday agreement as a stepping stone to a United Ireland which will happen when there is a nationalist majority.

But I suppose you disagree and think we all vote for it so we can keep the North British?

That's the thing about the bastard law: it doesn't allow you to do what you like, whether that be murder your wife, rob a bank, or beat your dog.

Inconvenient shame, really...

As for the GFA, I imagine the people in the ROI voted for it for a variety of reasons, including that it would advance their aspirations for a United Ireland

Which is fair enough in my book, since pre- or post-GFA, they were always entitled to follow such aspirations.

What the GFA did change, however, was that prior to it, they made an offensive (though unrealisable) claim to NI, irrespective of the wishes of the people who actually live there, whereas post-GFA, they have dropped it.

Progress all round, I'd say.

[magickingdom]

tut tut eg. maggie thatcher and big ian used to say never never never... now baby unionists like yourself are saying 'not until blah blah'. its pathetic really. am i the only one that still cant get used to ian smiling away beside joint first minister martin?   if i were a unionist i'd puke

[his holiness nb]

I would have thought it was more to do with trying to stop people from killing each other? But there you go.

That would have been one of the reasons also, whats your point?
I was just refuting the stupid suggestions that by voting for it the people of the Republic were "happy" to see the North remain part of the UK.

[Evil Genius]

Don't know much about the Portugezzers, but were they brought to the Iberian peninsula from a nearby neighbour, and granted the confiscated lands previously occupied by local clans of another nationality, culture and religion? I thought the state was established by some sort of internecine feud?

No, I don't think modern day Portugese did arrive there in the manner you describe. Though it is just possible that any of their ancestors who were Iberian Celts will have travelled to an island to the North West, seized control of the land from the previous occupants and assimilated them into their own "nationality", culture and religion...

Imperialist Bastards those Celts, eh? 

In any event, we're in the age of concensus here. Would there be concensus on this on the Iberian peninsula, or even a desire for it among even a sizeable minority of the population? Does anyone want it, except for Mr. Saramago? It's really apples and oranges comparing it to our own situation. In any event he uses the Basque, Catalonian and Galicians as examples to back his arguement, which is just BS, as all have sizeable minorities, in some cases majorities, who feel a lot on antipithy to the Castillion Madrid based government. Actually I would of thought a further fracture of Iberia more likely than a "reunification" no-one wants. The article might just as well have been titled "Disillusioned Crank Seeks Somnething Nobody Wants" and "Needs to regenerate his flagging career" as the sub heading.

Wouldn't disagree with too much of that MM.

It's just that my having posted the original article pretty much without comment*, it was subsequent posters who "took the bait" and turned it from a United Iberia thread into a United Ireland one.


* - OK, there was a sly wee prelude, but it's hard to resist sometimes...

[magickingdom]

Progress all round, I'd say.

i agree eg, the north has gone from been a cold house for nationalists, with no input to the place run by big house unionism and no prospect of a ui to now been 50% run by nationalists with a ui possible with a simple majority. all this in 30 years.. simple really  

[Evil Genius]

Of course, for political reasons, SF will try their hardest to persuade their supporters that the process is designed to do just that. However, I don't have too much of a problem with that, since I'd always much rather they lie to themselves than lie to me.

Here you go ahead kidding yourself into thinking only SF supporters want a United Ireland 

No, I did not say that only SF supporters want a UI - that would be stupid.

Rather, SF is the only one of the signatories to claim that the GFA will lead everyone to a UI in a way that it patently will not.

But as I said, it is not I who should get upset by their "Big Lie", it is their supporters*.  





* - Awwww, poor diddums...

[Long time dead]

Don't know much about the Portugezzers, but were they brought to the Iberian peninsula from a nearby neighbour, and granted the confiscated lands previously occupied by local clans of another nationality, culture and religion? I thought the state was established by some sort of internecine feud?

No, I don't think modern day Portugese did arrive there in the manner you describe. Though it is just possible that any of their ancestors who were Iberian Celts will have travelled to an island to the North West, seized control of the land from the previous occupants and assimilated them into their own "nationality", culture and religion...

Imperialist Bastards those Celts, eh? 

In any event, we're in the age of concensus here. Would there be concensus on this on the Iberian peninsula, or even a desire for it among even a sizeable minority of the population? Does anyone want it, except for Mr. Saramago? It's really apples and oranges comparing it to our own situation. In any event he uses the Basque, Catalonian and Galicians as examples to back his arguement, which is just BS, as all have sizeable minorities, in some cases majorities, who feel a lot on antipithy to the Castillion Madrid based government. Actually I would of thought a further fracture of Iberia more likely than a "reunification" no-one wants. The article might just as well have been titled "Disillusioned Crank Seeks Somnething Nobody Wants" and "Needs to regenerate his flagging career" as the sub heading.

Wouldn't disagree with too much of that MM.

It's just that my having posted the original article pretty much without comment*, it was subsequent posters who "took the bait" and turned it from a United Iberia thread into a United Ireland one.


* - OK, there was a sly wee prelude, but it's hard to resist sometimes...

Tosser.

[his holiness nb]

I know this isnt in keeping with polite debate and will no doubt result in me being told to grow up or the likes.
But Evil Genius is a smart arse annoying **** of the highest order.

[Evil Genius]

tut tut eg. maggie thatcher and big ian used to say never never never... now baby unionists like yourself are saying 'not until blah blah'. its pathetic really. am i the only one that still cant get used to ian smiling away beside joint first minister martin?   if i were a unionist i'd puke

Thatcher didn't have anything to do with the GFA, so I don't see how her viws/opinion affected my decision whether to support the GFA or not.

Now as it happens, I did. In that respect (as in just about every other), I differ from Paisley.

As it happens, however, I find Paisley in power even more repulsive than before (as repulsive as I find McGuinness, in fact). However, they are both there as a consequence of the ballot box. Which is an advance, I suppose, from the days when certain individuals were making everybodies life hell by a combination of the Ballot and the Bullet...

[Evil Genius]

Progress all round, I'd say.

i agree eg, the north has gone from been a cold house for nationalists, with no input to the place run by big house unionism and no prospect of a ui to now been 50% run by nationalists with a ui possible with a simple majority. all this in 30 years.. simple really  

Not how I'd characterise it, but if that makes you happy, then I'm pleased for you.

P.S. The simple majority option was always open to you, btw.

[Evil Genius]

I would have thought it was more to do with trying to stop people from killing each other? But there you go.

That would have been one of the reasons also, whats your point?
I was just refuting the stupid suggestions that by voting for it the people of the Republic were "happy" to see the North remain part of the UK.

I never saw the GFA as being evidence of the ROI's electorate being "happy" with NI's status within the UK (nor did Chris, I imagine).

Rather, it seemed to me to be evidence that they accepted it, which was a significant advance (imo) from the days when neither they, their Government nor their Constitution accepted it.

[Evil Genius]

I know this isnt in keeping with polite debate and will no doubt result in me being told to grow up or the likes.
But Evil Genius is a smart arse annoying **** of the highest order.

Spoken like the true Dalai Lama.

(Thanks for the compliment, btw. It's fans like you who keep me going... )


P.S. Don't you mean lowest order?

[Fiodoir Ard Mhacha]

It's just that my having posted the original article pretty much without comment*, it was subsequent posters who "took the bait" and turned it from a United Iberia thread into a United Ireland one.


* - OK, there was a sly wee prelude, but it's hard to resist sometimes...

**These "outraged Portugese compatriots" wouldn't be Protestants, by any chance? 

And do any Irish observers who support the idea of Portugal being absorbed into Iberia also deny the right of e.g. Catalonia or the Basque Country not to be included in the new entity (or Spain, for that matter)?

Aye, definitely an initial posting with little or no comment, apart from your prelude.

I don't go into personal slanging matches with anyone but what did make me wince was your later 'comment' (or maybe it was just a thought out loud) re. "I fail to see how or why we should order how we run our present day affairs by reference to events which occurred decades or even centuries before any of us was even born".

If only.........