Would you be in favour of a second tier?

Started by sligoman2, June 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM

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Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
136 (52.7%)
No
104 (40.3%)
Undecided
18 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 258

Blowitupref

Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 21, 2019, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on October 21, 2019, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 19, 2019, 11:17:35 PM
Quote from: FermGael on October 19, 2019, 08:59:31 PM
How do the qualifiers work now ?
I assume they are basically capped to 8 teams because the powers that be are assuming there will be 8 division 1 or 2 teams in the 4 provincial finals.
Does this mean the qualifiers can't begin until after the all the provincial semi finals are completed ?
Could a team be waiting for over 6 weeks for a qualifier if they are in the top 2 divisions and get knocked out in a premilarily round game like the losers of the Donegal v Tyrone game in Ulster next year ?




I am happy it was voted in, however i would of went to 3 tiers, Senior, Inter and Junior, like we have in every single county in the country, however too many would complain and play the victim.

Its still not clear to me in some aspects.

Are the supers 8s gone and back to straight knockout QFs in tier 1?
All div 3 and 4 teams get qualifier chance if they lose their provincial final, if they lose their first qualifier do they go into the Tier 2?
Does Tier 2 competition only start when all provincial finals are finished? E.G long wait for first round losers
Will New York play tier 2, will they travel?
The three dates are listed on the left so yes the so-called "Super 8's" are still there, as you'd expect given that's the only level that Croke Park give a shit about any more.

A terrible decision and it'll not improve the fortunes of those of us who are in the wilderness. But as long as certain people can keep themselves in favour in HQ that's what really matters.

It will be there for 2020 anyway and then its up for review as the 3 year trial period is over. I would personally scrap it and bring back knock out quarter finals but an educated guess says those at HQ will probably keep it.

Some interesting comments from Kevin McStay on the introduction of this second tier for the championship


"From what I gather, eight of the counties who could be involved next year voted against it," "That doesn't bode well for the inaugural staging.

"the worry i'd have is Aer Lingus and America could be more enticing to some after their provincial exit,"  "That will always be a concern, Let's say you're a Kildare,Roscommon or Armagh player and you get relegated from Div 2, will you be willing to keep going for this Tier 2 event? that said Div 2 looks really interesting next spring for all teams involved" 
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Owenmoresider

Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
Sligo voted for it didn't they?
2 ways out of " the wilderness" - get up to Div  2 or reach a Connacht Final.
Surely both should be Sligo's aim and capability??
Almost certainly, we would seem to be the equivalent of a loyal government backbencher for HQ.

I take it you didn't see Sligo playing this year. We're not winning the Tommy Murphy Redux/Paidí Ó Sé/John Horan's legacy Cup anytime soon. In any case we couldn't get to D2 for two years even if we somehow got on a winning run, and have to go to Salthill next May so that's not happening either.

TheGreatest

Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
Sligo voted for it didn't they?
2 ways out of " the wilderness" - get up to Div  2 or reach a Connacht Final.
Surely both should be Sligo's aim and capability??

I think so, it is realisitic for a lot of tier 2 teams, Division 3 will be extremely competative i would imagine next year, Cork favourites to win it.

Imagine the relegation battle in Div 2 will be near championship level competitiveness.


TheGreatest

Quote from: Blowitupref on October 21, 2019, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 21, 2019, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on October 21, 2019, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 19, 2019, 11:17:35 PM
Quote from: FermGael on October 19, 2019, 08:59:31 PM
How do the qualifiers work now ?
I assume they are basically capped to 8 teams because the powers that be are assuming there will be 8 division 1 or 2 teams in the 4 provincial finals.
Does this mean the qualifiers can't begin until after the all the provincial semi finals are completed ?
Could a team be waiting for over 6 weeks for a qualifier if they are in the top 2 divisions and get knocked out in a premilarily round game like the losers of the Donegal v Tyrone game in Ulster next year ?




I am happy it was voted in, however i would of went to 3 tiers, Senior, Inter and Junior, like we have in every single county in the country, however too many would complain and play the victim.

Its still not clear to me in some aspects.

Are the supers 8s gone and back to straight knockout QFs in tier 1?
All div 3 and 4 teams get qualifier chance if they lose their provincial final, if they lose their first qualifier do they go into the Tier 2?
Does Tier 2 competition only start when all provincial finals are finished? E.G long wait for first round losers
Will New York play tier 2, will they travel?
The three dates are listed on the left so yes the so-called "Super 8's" are still there, as you'd expect given that's the only level that Croke Park give a shit about any more.

A terrible decision and it'll not improve the fortunes of those of us who are in the wilderness. But as long as certain people can keep themselves in favour in HQ that's what really matters.

It will be there for 2020 anyway and then its up for review as the 3 year trial period is over. I would personally scrap it and bring back knock out quarter finals but an educated guess says those at HQ will probably keep it.

Some interesting comments from Kevin McStay on the introduction of this second tier for the championship


"From what I gather, eight of the counties who could be involved next year voted against it," "That doesn't bode well for the inaugural staging.

"the worry i'd have is Aer Lingus and America could be more enticing to some after their provincial exit,"  "That will always be a concern, Let's say you're a Kildare,Roscommon or Armagh player and you get relegated from Div 2, will you be willing to keep going for this Tier 2 event? that said Div 2 looks really interesting next spring for all teams involved"

I personally hate the Super 8s. I am hopeful for straigh knockout neutral venue Quarter finals from 2021.

Cunny Funt

Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
Sligo voted for it didn't they?


Doesn't seem to be that well received in sligo

Eamonn O' Hara

So the GAA have created a semi pro group and the the rest can Go f**k themselves

Gavin Crawley (who I think was the former Sligo GAA PRO?)

Tommy Murphy Cup Part 2 it end badly again shocking decision

Blowitupref

Quote from: TheGreatest on October 21, 2019, 03:57:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
Sligo voted for it didn't they?
2 ways out of " the wilderness" - get up to Div  2 or reach a Connacht Final.
Surely both should be Sligo's aim and capability??

I think so, it is realisitic for a lot of tier 2 teams, Division 3 will be extremely competative i would imagine next year, Cork favourites to win it.

Imagine the relegation battle in Div 2 will be near championship level competitiveness.

With the Tipp motion added late to congress, Cork won't have to worry about a second tier comp if they gain promotion from Div 3 next spring as they are expected to do.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Rossfan

Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 21, 2019, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
Sligo voted for it didn't they?


Doesn't seem to be that well received in sligo

Eamonn O' Hara

So the GAA have created a semi pro group and the the rest can Go f**k themselves

Gavin Crawley (who I think was the former Sligo GAA PRO?)

Tommy Murphy Cup Part 2 it end badly again shocking decision
Did their full Co Board vote on it or how was it decided to support it?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Sportacus

I'm not in favour of it and I'm glad my County Chairman from Antrim spoke against it.  Antrim's problems in football are of our own making, not the system.  We all live for 'the big day' and that's how kids catch the GAA bug.  We are reducing that for Antrim and others.  I heard Tomas on the radio supporting the plan.  I really like Tomas as a pundit, but it is impossible for him to have empathy with counties like Antrim.

sligoman2

Time will tell. I for one agree with it, it provides more incentive in the league for div 2 and 3 teams, it gives teams a realistic shot at silverware and it leads to more competitive games.  If you don't like it them get to a provincial final or get out of the lower divisions - hopefully it will get good promotion from tv Etc....
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

omaghjoe

All fine and well there was always strong and weak counties.
........now what about the Dublin sized Elephant in the Room?

Sportacus

Quote from: sligoman2 on October 21, 2019, 11:04:45 PM
Time will tell. I for one agree with it, it provides more incentive in the league for div 2 and 3 teams, it gives teams a realistic shot at silverware and it leads to more competitive games.  If you don't like it them get to a provincial final or get out of the lower divisions - hopefully it will get good promotion from tv Etc....
TV is show business, there will be next to no promotion. I would take any assurances to the contrary with a large pinch of salt.

macdanger2

I wouldn't necessarily be for or against it as a concept but the way it's being done seems very haphazard.

First off, (like the super 8s) it's not clear what problem this change is supposed to solve. As an aside, if the super 8 system is suitable for the A championship, why not for the B also?

If a tiered system is to be successful, it needs to be stand alone, not as a competition for teams who've been beaten. Obviously the provincial competitions are a problem with implementing something like that though.

Lastly, it does nothing to address the disparity in funding. That's not a dig at Dublin (although that funding issue needs to be addressed); right across the board, the teams that spend the most are the most successful. Something needs to be done to level the playing field there e.g. Tier 2 teams should get 50% more funding that tier 1 teams

BennyCake

Quote from: TheGreatest on October 21, 2019, 03:59:23 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 21, 2019, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 21, 2019, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on October 21, 2019, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 19, 2019, 11:17:35 PM
Quote from: FermGael on October 19, 2019, 08:59:31 PM
How do the qualifiers work now ?
I assume they are basically capped to 8 teams because the powers that be are assuming there will be 8 division 1 or 2 teams in the 4 provincial finals.
Does this mean the qualifiers can't begin until after the all the provincial semi finals are completed ?
Could a team be waiting for over 6 weeks for a qualifier if they are in the top 2 divisions and get knocked out in a premilarily round game like the losers of the Donegal v Tyrone game in Ulster next year ?




I am happy it was voted in, however i would of went to 3 tiers, Senior, Inter and Junior, like we have in every single county in the country, however too many would complain and play the victim.

Its still not clear to me in some aspects.

Are the supers 8s gone and back to straight knockout QFs in tier 1?
All div 3 and 4 teams get qualifier chance if they lose their provincial final, if they lose their first qualifier do they go into the Tier 2?
Does Tier 2 competition only start when all provincial finals are finished? E.G long wait for first round losers
Will New York play tier 2, will they travel?
The three dates are listed on the left so yes the so-called "Super 8's" are still there, as you'd expect given that's the only level that Croke Park give a shit about any more.

A terrible decision and it'll not improve the fortunes of those of us who are in the wilderness. But as long as certain people can keep themselves in favour in HQ that's what really matters.

It will be there for 2020 anyway and then its up for review as the 3 year trial period is over. I would personally scrap it and bring back knock out quarter finals but an educated guess says those at HQ will probably keep it.

Some interesting comments from Kevin McStay on the introduction of this second tier for the championship


"From what I gather, eight of the counties who could be involved next year voted against it," "That doesn't bode well for the inaugural staging.

"the worry i'd have is Aer Lingus and America could be more enticing to some after their provincial exit,"  "That will always be a concern, Let's say you're a Kildare,Roscommon or Armagh player and you get relegated from Div 2, will you be willing to keep going for this Tier 2 event? that said Div 2 looks really interesting next spring for all teams involved"

I personally hate the Super 8s. I am hopeful for straigh knockout neutral venue Quarter finals from 2021.

No chance. Super 8's are here to stay as we'll be told it's a huge success, even if it's not.

The only way things will change is if everyone boycotts the championship, but we all know that won't happen.

t_mac

Quote from: BennyCake on October 22, 2019, 01:12:05 AM


The only way things will change is if everyone boycotts the championship, but we all know that won't happen.

That's it in a nutshell, and agree will NEVER happen.

five points

The sad thing is that people are already losing interest. I used love attending knockout AI Quarter Finals in Croke Park  but couldn't be bothered going to round robin games as a neutral.