employment laws

[Milltown Row2]

Any experts on here? Friend of mine was working for a company for 4 odd years, his attendance at start wasn't the worst but wasn't the best either, though in his work there are no clock in system and he was never pulled for it or got a warning for it either. Last 2 years it dramatically improved and all good. He recently went for another job, totally different discipline and got the job after 2 interviews/presentations. So he handed in his 4 week notice all good. Employers not that really bothered.

His new employers phoned him to say say that they won't be taking him on as a reference that they sent out had been filled in with both timekeeping and attendance filled as being poor, now he's no job!! If there are no records of poor attendance and bad timekeeping has he a case with the industrial tribunal on an employer filling in reference unfairly?

[Lecale2]

Was the reference actuate? That will be the question needs answered.

[Milltown Row2]

Was the reference actuate? That will be the question needs answered.

It was a tick box reference type thing, his boss has (with hindsight) regretted it but it's too late, even after phoning the company to explain that it was down to stupid things and would fill in another reference, the other company has taken the view of keeping with policy and not going take him. Couldn't make it up lol.

[Milltown Row2]

So, they gave him the job and then decided to look at his references??

Then they decided they didn't want him? WTF?

The new company are the cnuts, not the old one.

Yeah in fairness I thought the new company was harsh to, but I'm sure in all jobs they are based on whether the references are up to scratch.

[imtommygunn]

Yeah but the offer should only be made once the references are in...

[Milltown Row2]

Yeah but the offer should only be made once the references are in...

Something fishy about it from the new employers, but if his company hasn't got records or handed out warnings for poor timekeeping/atendance surely after a contract has been retracted based on something that can't be backed up he'd have a case?

[Apparently so]

Na, I would say your right Milltown. There's no way they could take away the job offer based on something that there is no evidence. He should definitely be looking into it, sounds dodgy enough

[thebigfella]

To be honest his boss shouldn't have filled anything out and left it to HR. Most references are just to confirm you worked for the company from the dates specified as negative references leave you legally exposed; hence most HR departments have a policy in place.

[Milltown Row2]

His company is small enough with no HR team in place, mistake by former boss thinking he'd got job an all (which he had pending references) so never thought

[playwiththewind1st]

Basically the guy giving the reference has a duty of care towards the new employer, i.e. the new employer could potentially sue the old employer for giving a false, or misleading, reference. As outlined above, the trend nowadays is to give a "tombstone" reference, where you do not mention anything at all about conduct/performance  - irrespective of whether those aspects were good, bad or indifferent.

It is usually made clear in a letter of offer that a job offer only stands as long as satisfactory references are received. The best advice is - do not throw your resignation in, until you have a written date of commencement confirmed with a new employer, in other words that both you & they are satisfied that there is nothing impending that will hinder you taking up employment, particularly the references.

[Milltown Row2]

Basically the guy giving the reference has a duty of care towards the new employer, i.e. the new employer could potentially sue the old employer for giving a false, or misleading, reference. As outlined above, the trend nowadays is to give a "tombstone" reference, where you do not mention anything at all about conduct/performance  - irrespective of whether those aspects were good, bad or indifferent.

It is usually made clear in a letter of offer that a job offer only stands as long as satisfactory references are received. The best advice is - do not throw your resignation in, until you have a written date of commencement confirmed with a new employer, in other words that both you & they are satisfied that there is nothing impending that will hinder you taking up employment, particularly the references.

I agree with all of that, but if the previous boss has no records/warnings or proof of bad attendance surely he leaves himself open ? 

[playwiththewind1st]

"An employer is under no legal duty to provide an employee or ex-employee with a reference. A derogatory reference may expose him to an action for defamation. This may be defended on the grounds that the statement made was true, or, if untrue, it was made on an occasion when the law confers qualified privilege, and the statement was made without malice, in the sense of an improper motive".

[Milltown Row2]

"An employer is under no legal duty to provide an employee or ex-employee with a reference. A derogatory reference may expose him to an action for defamation. This may be defended on the grounds that the statement made was true, or, if untrue, it was made on an occasion when the law confers qualified privilege, and the statement was made without malice, in the sense of an improper motive".

So if you were an employer in this occassion would you feel safe that nothing would come of it? I think it's been an unfortunate (costly for my mate) situation, I hope he gets a job soon as he's a bit shell shocked at the moment

[playwiththewind1st]

Relatively. I wouldn't have thought that your mate will have the funds to go after him for defamation. What about a quiet word to see if old job is still "available"??

[Milltown Row2]

Relatively. I wouldn't have thought that your mate will have the funds to go after him for defamation. What about a quiet word to see if old job is still "available"??

They have already interviewed someone else and he starts in 2 weeks lol, if he's unemployed surely he'll get legal aid then? Bit of a mess in fairness.