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But they've done nothing in recent years to show they have the nerve to win a big game - I think they are just short a few players and need to focus on the football and not the physical antics they often get themselves involved in. If they focus on playing their own game and I think they'll do better than trying to out-tactic Donegal.

What physical antics? Have they been giving away more frees than the opposition? Have they had more cards?

Ok it may be a subjective view, but Armagh seem to overly focus on trying to out-muscle other teams. Often resulting in cards, sometimes resulting in spendings off. Example is last year's ulster final - it was a game Armagh could have won (especially given the circumstances around Derry), game almost over and Rian O'Neill made a bee line for McGuigan and took him down at shoulder height conceding a free which ultimately cost Armagh the game. No reckless physical tackle, Armagh win.
Armagh have been involved in a number of incidents over recent years with melee's and multiple sendings off.
Rian is close to being a liability in my view - undoubtedly very talented, but he's just as likely to get himself sent off in the first 10 minutes as he is to putting in a match winning performance imo.

That's what I mean by physical antics.
I've not issue with teams playing an aggressive game, but Armagh seem to step over the line more often than others. In my opinion, reigning that part of the game in a little and focusing more on footballing side of it will be of more benefit to Armagh.

you havent watched much of armagh this year. Thankfully we look to have left a lot of that nonsense behind.
How often has Rian been sent off in the first ten minutes by the way?

What was the last bit of shite we were involved in? Galway 2022?

Rian put his knee to Cormac Quinn's head/neck. But i guess that's more of an individual thing than a collective

I don't know. I just have visions of Rian O'Neill giving a Tohillesque tour de force, driving Armagh on to win through sheer force of will.

Pundits leaning Armagh from what I've heard so far. "It's their time!" seems to be the consensus.

O'Neill will do well to see out the game!

on what basis?

He didn't bury Shane McGuigan for biting him last year so I'm sure the Donegal boys won't be able to goad him into anything.

Fermanagh tried to wind up Rian right from the end of the parade but it didn't work.

He also put his knee to Cormac Quinns head/neck in '23 championship. He's definitely hot headed

Derry were 4 up at HT in ET and then decided to give up the kickouts (which they dominated in the first half of ET) this gave Tyrone the impetus to come and chase down the lead - Derry will be devastated - poor game management both on the pitch and along the line letting that lead slip.

It thought in general, that team was badly managed. All afraid to shoot until the certain score was on, side-to-side, pass back mentality seems to be ingrained in this group of Derry players.
I thought we had better footballers all over the field, but our attack play was so slow and rarely did the player on the ball look up to see the runner.
Tyrone's blanket got back really quick, and they attacked directly and at pace.
Management need to take responsibility for that loss if you ask me as tactics won/lost that game

Agree with some of the other comments on turnovers - really cost us.

The whole game just felt like if Derry threw caution to the wind in attack, we'd get through or get fouled.

Tyrone more "cute" out the field and definitely more physical. But for me, Derry had the better players.

Generally I like penalties (I know I'm in the minority), but that was brutal from a Derry pov. Size difference in the two keepers was really noticeable, but the quality of penalties by Tyrone was much better.

I actually thought we attacked poorly as well. Players taking touches instead of passing first time, players running into 2/3 Derry men and players scared to shoot with the weak foot. I know they're only young lads but I'd say there's 9 or 10 of them that start for club and Tyrone league is taken seriously

Who ever is teaching tyrone how to tackle and defend needs to stop

Don't think theyve started yet to be honest

Lack of any sort of strength in depth killed us today. One enforced sub and another in the 63rd minute in normal time tells the tale.

Can't fault the effort and performance and probably should have seen it out in normal time. Once it went to extra time we were always going to struggle particularly with the lack of changes made.

Hopefully Meyler and Harte will be back for the group stage. I'd be expecting QF minimum and then after that who knows.

Our refusal by the management to use our bench killed us today. Yes, they may lack experience but if they were good enough in ET last week then surely they were today. To throw away a 3 point lead with 15 to go and then a 1 point lead deep into injury time was very disappointing.
Once Donegal went ahead, you never felt we would win

Agree with this. If they are on the county panel they should be good enough to play county games. Feel like some lads weren't given as much of a chance as they should have had

Armagh must be worth an each way bet. Likely to be top seeds having had some warm up matches to try systems/squad before the Ulster final against a jaded Donegal or Tyrone. They'll probably not have a better chance of making a semi or a final for a while.

In all seriousness, bar drawing Dublin I'd be very disappointed if we don't make a semi final. Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry, Derry, Galway, Mayo all very good teams but have their flaws, time we pushed on, sick of hard luck stories at the qf stage.

You have a serious chance of making top seed and then a 66% chance of drawing Clare or Louth/Kildare as 2nd seed in your group. Avoid the preliminary quarter final thereafter and you're set up to beat the hard luck stories!

Sam is Armagh's to lose this year. If they don't win Sam, will it be seen as a failure and signal the end for McGeeney?

Should they not aim to win Ulster first?

Must have missed something but is there any word on Tarlach Quinn? Light enough defensivley as is. Is he out injured still?

Just goes to show anyone can beat anyone on the day. Harte is a stubborn f**ker though so I'd put money on Lynch pushing up the next day too! Not many teams have the midfield to dominate Glass!

Derry are a class side, I've no agenda here... But Conor Glass is so overrated it's unreal..another shocker performance, he saves his shockers for when Derry are in a tight spot too

I'd agree with that. Even from what I've seen at club level he's able to take it up a notch in the final 10 minutes but before that it doesn't feel like he's in the game. Seems to be the same at county level as well. Capable of a few big plays during a game but it doesn't feel like he's there consistently for 45/50 minutes

As a famous son of Derry once famously said.. 'youse boys no nothing about football'.

Do you think Conor Glass consistently impacts the game from start to finish? I don't. As I've said already he takes his game to another level in the last 10/15 minutes if needed but the rest of the game he isn't as influential as Rodgers is say

You can double down all you want but you are still talking out your hole. I've missed 1 Derry game in the last 2 years,caught a good few Glen games. I know it's a thing to reel against popular opinion etc these days but you'll be in a very very small minority who doesn't think Glass is a player at the very highest level, a rolls royce of a player. Glass is the real deal. The wee 10 mins at the end of games cameo from yourself deserves the Gene Wilder Willy Wonka meme more than any line I've heard in a while

I'm just giving my opinion mate. There's no need to be so upset about it. I know Glass is a top player, top 10 in the game right now no doubt. I just don't rate him as high as you do. Do you do this every time someone has an opinion you disagree with? "You're talking out of your hole. I'm right, you're wrong".

Just goes to show anyone can beat anyone on the day. Harte is a stubborn f**ker though so I'd put money on Lynch pushing up the next day too! Not many teams have the midfield to dominate Glass!

Derry are a class side, I've no agenda here... But Conor Glass is so overrated it's unreal..another shocker performance, he saves his shockers for when Derry are in a tight spot too

I'd agree with that. Even from what I've seen at club level he's able to take it up a notch in the final 10 minutes but before that it doesn't feel like he's in the game. Seems to be the same at county level as well. Capable of a few big plays during a game but it doesn't feel like he's there consistently for 45/50 minutes

As a famous son of Derry once famously said.. 'youse boys no nothing about football'.

Do you think Conor Glass consistently impacts the game from start to finish? I don't. As I've said already he takes his game to another level in the last 10/15 minutes if needed but the rest of the game he isn't as influential as Rodgers is say

Just goes to show anyone can beat anyone on the day. Harte is a stubborn f**ker though so I'd put money on Lynch pushing up the next day too! Not many teams have the midfield to dominate Glass!

Derry are a class side, I've no agenda here... But Conor Glass is so overrated it's unreal..another shocker performance, he saves his shockers for when Derry are in a tight spot too

I'd agree with that. Even from what I've seen at club level he's able to take it up a notch in the final 10 minutes but before that it doesn't feel like he's in the game. Seems to be the same at county level as well. Capable of a few big plays during a game but it doesn't feel like he's there consistently for 45/50 minutes

As a famous son of Derry once famously said.. 'youse boys no nothing about football'.

Glass is some operator. Not too often he doesn't have a massive say in games and steps up when the game is in the melting pot.

That's exactly what i said lol? He often shows up when it matters in the last minutes of a game but before that i don't think he influences the game as much as other players

[The keeper was fouled]

How the hell is it a free out when 3 players are kneeing on you. Goldrick is a complete balloon

I'd go get your eyesight checked if I were you. The ref won it for you

Are you serious? 5 cavan high challenges unpunished by ref, phantom black card. 40 seconds extra played at end for cavan and the ref won it lol

Black card all day long for pulling down a player. And nothing to say about your final score? The keeper was fouled. That was a free out, not in. And wasn't Cavans last free not a black card and penalty for preventing a goal scoring chance under the new rules? You're being absolutely blind to how he won that for you

What "foul" are you talking about here? Was it the one where McShane pressured him into overcarrying? If that was an outfield player vs outfield player it would be called for overcarrying as well. Do you want the keeper to have more protection?

Just goes to show anyone can beat anyone on the day. Harte is a stubborn f**ker though so I'd put money on Lynch pushing up the next day too! Not many teams have the midfield to dominate Glass!

Derry are a class side, I've no agenda here... But Conor Glass is so overrated it's unreal..another shocker performance, he saves his shockers for when Derry are in a tight spot too

I'd agree with that. Even from what I've seen at club level he's able to take it up a notch in the final 10 minutes but before that it doesn't feel like he's in the game. Seems to be the same at county level as well. Capable of a few big plays during a game but it doesn't feel like he's there consistently for 45/50 minutes

Was there extra time in those games or was it straight to pens.

Extra time

Maybe extra time was how its meant to be but Killyclogher Errigal went straight to pens. Teams seemed to have a discussion with the ref to avoid extra time

[Armagh if they can get some luck on the day]

You don't have to be a mastermind to work out the 3 teams who are in the mix to win SAM...Dublin, Kerry and Derry. Kerry and Derry would be similar in levels with Dublin just ahead.

The chasing pack...well take your pick, anyone of 7-8 teams can make a semi final.
Galway if they get their main players fit
Mayo if they lift that damn curse...lol
Tyrone if they can be more consistent (hopefully not...lol)
Armagh if they can get some luck on the day
Donegal if they can get their injured players back fit for Championship
Rossies with a bit of luck
Cavan just like a bad fart, can't seem to get rid of them easily and linger around.
Cork can be dangerous and bloody someones nose

It would be a major shock if the 2024 Sam Maguire winner does not come from the first 3 mentioned...Sin e

Armagh if McGeeney decides to let the team play proper football like they did for the majority of the league

So what are you suggesting? Should there be a leinster championship without dublin or should there be no leinster championshipt?

It's broken so either it's dumped or it's fixed.

Dublin is out of control . The system worked as long as Dublin was disorganised. Sports often have this problem of a big population centre or financial centre that is disproportionate to the rest.  In Rugby it's England and France. The solution is to give the 6 teams the same money allocation, not to give England and France the money raised in their countries. 

I don't know exactly how US sport works in detail but they value competition very highly and have drafts to even out teams.

Something is going to have to be done with Dublin but until people demand change nothing will change. This is about power.

"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion "
Steve Walt

American sports are as close as you're going to get in regards to fairness. The only thing holding teams like the Hawks or the Wizards back is bad front offices. Only thing I don't like about the NBA draft is that better teams have a chance to get higher picks than worse teams if they get lucky in the draft lottery. But everything else is fair. You don't see a team staying in championship contention for longer than a few years