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Does anyone know if Tyrone trained tonight or if a team was named for Sunday? Always interesting to see who's playing especially with so many new faces. As Derry are likely to be the toughest opposition in the group would expect a strong enough team.

I suppose out of the new younger players they're 4 of the more likely to start in the coming year. Mattie Donnelly looked like he had good potential but still feel he has more to do to earn a regular starting place. I could be wrong but he seemed to be scoring less at club level last year and wasn't doing much scoring for Tyrone (partly expected due to his role).

You'd be hoping that both Coney and O'Neill could have an injury free year and really push on. Would make a big difference to the forward line. Will also be very interesting to see how McCurry gets on this year.

Harte obviously rates McNamee highly so looking forward to seeing him in new year. I really think we need to find at least another one really good man marker in defence.

In the last few years there are a number of players who always seem to be injured at some point come the championship. The likes of Coney, Justy McMahon, McNabb and PJ Quinn always seem to pick up injuries. It would be great if we got a good run on this front this year.

No universities= knockout competition = max one guaranteed game.

The big plus about the mckenna cup this last 8 or 9 years has been that every team is guaranteed a number of games to blood players and pick their league squad.

If you lose the guarantee of a number of games then managers less likely to experiment and give less of a blooding ground.

I don't understand it... University players playing for universities will be playing county teams so the standard will be the same. Why not just send scouts. The team in the mckenna cup will be vastly different - irrespective of personnell. The same players will have completely different fitness levels, scores not so easy to come by on soft ground, the same ground won't be covered etc. etc.

The league is the place to build continuity in the team with the university players. Mainly they play key roles for universities and fringe roles for counties anyway.

It doesn't have to be knockout if there's no university teams. They could play 3 groups of 3 and have semi finals. So teams are guarenteed 2 matches and the possibility of 4. They could have 2 groups of 5 and 4 but the might be too hard to get the games played in the 5 group.

The McKenna Cup is the only competition that you can truly experiment with new players and see how they fit into the line up and whether they can carry out the instructions of the manager. Division one is a tough enough place without having to do serious experimenting. The players get their chance during the McKenna cup and if they take it will get further opportunities in the league.

What's the largest attendance at a university game in the McKenna Cup? Even the year Queen's got to the final per the ulster gaa website there was just 2,000 at the final. The facts speak for themselves there is much lower crowds at their games and its not just down to only one county being involved. People aren't overly interested in going to the games involving the universities. All this talk about them saving the McKenna Cup etc is nonsense.

Redhand no harm to you but your obsession with attendances on this issue is about as relevant as how green the grass was. The colleges play all their games away from home and they do not have a significant following. Their addition to the competition was such a success that we in Connaught copied the format and Leinster and Munster quickly followed. It has added a new demension and adds further passing interest even if you were not to attend a game. Even the most blinkered Tyrone fan would admit that, although some are so blinkered that they just get obssesed with attendances.

People have been arguing that the universities saved the McKenna Cup without any facts to back it up. I'm just making a factual argument as to why I believe that they aren't key to its success. I think attendances are as good a way as any in determining the interest in the games.

What's the largest attendance at a university game in the McKenna Cup? Even the year Queen's got to the final per the ulster gaa website there was just 2,000 at the final. The facts speak for themselves there is much lower crowds at their games and its not just down to only one county being involved. People aren't overly interested in going to the games involving the universities. All this talk about them saving the McKenna Cup etc is nonsense.

Mickey Harte talks some absolute shite!!

"the fact that Tyrone declared a strong desire to win every competition they entered is recognised by many as the catalyst which sparked a new interest on the competition"

More proof that football was indeed invented in 2003! 

The university games are the worst attended and in my opinion the only advantage they give is an extra run out for the players.

There's arguments for and against what the colleges have brought.

But please. Yourself and, I think, O'Neill have both brought up the attendance thing of the universities. It's not relevant as it goes without saying they'll be the least attended as there is only one fanbase present.

I really doubt that at the average match that there is a huge away following. I know for in Tyrone that attendances at the uni games are significantly lower and its not just the away support. And surely a competition like this has to be judged on attendances anyway? In the gaa its the biggest reason for scrapping competitions. I'd say the following games are among the biggest attended games:
Tyrone Donegal 04 final - 12,000
Tyrone Armagh 06 semi - 20,000
Tyrone Fermanagh 2012 - 7,000
Tyrone/Ferm, Down Derry 2012 - 11,000+
Tyrone Donegal 2006 - 10,000+

Not a uni in sight and Tyrone involved in them all. Its no coincidence given the emphasis placed on the competition by Tyrone and in particular Mickey Harte. He's done more for the McKenna Cup than any other manager in Ulster in my opinion.

Mickey Harte talks some absolute shite!!

"the fact that Tyrone declared a strong desire to win every competition they entered is recognised by many as the catalyst which sparked a new interest on the competition"

More proof that football was indeed invented in 2003! 

The change in the timing of the McKenna Cup to pre league in 2003 and the increased emphasis on it by Tyrone who have won 3 All Irelands in the peiod since certainly in my opinion had the biggest impact on making it a successful competition. The university games are the worst attended and in my opinion the only advantage they give is an extra run out for the players.

Tyrone had the full pick last year, didn't do them any good, come crunch time Mickey reverted to most of the old hands, surely picking non univ guys (not ever body goes on to 3rd level education) is a bigger benefit and sent a selector to watch the Queens, ST Marys etc, This is a bigger trawl of players and may unearth a player previously looked over or unheralded

.    People seem to make stuff up on this thread to suit themselves. Mickey did not revert to the old hands come championship. Against Kerry he started McNamee at half back and he'd never played before. McCurry started corner forward making his first start. Clarke at 20 played full back. Also the likes of Mattie Donnelly was brought in during the championship. Aidan McCrory nailed his place during McKenna Cup and never looked back.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/2634419.stm

That was the team for Harte's first game in charge in 2003 in the McKenna Cup. I make it 8 of the team went on to start on the All Ireland winning team and Stephen O'Neill came on as a sub. People might say it was his first game in charge and he was getting used to the players but I think in the last few years Harte has been trying to get all his younger players available because he's trying to rebuild a team and get them playing the way he wants and that can take time. He has been pretty consistent over wanting players to play in it from the start.

His attitude of taking it seriously has done a lot more for the McKenna Cup than that of the managers who have released the university players and said the competition doesn't matter and they don't care about winning it.

[To do that you need a semi-settled side.]

Harte and other managers are 'hired' to manage their county side to success. They need to hit the ground running in the NFL or they'll be facing relegation before they know it. To do that you need a semi-settled side. Tyrone are away to Mayo and Down in their first two games. I can understand why Harte and others want their favoured 15 playing together.

The Ulster Council can run the McKenna (and gate receipts) with the county teams only. The unis don't pull in that much revenue. They're not a big loss.

Invariably the McKenna cup is used by county managers to experiment with players new to the panel to see if they can cut it. The existing members of the panel will have been tested last year and their capabilities should be well known to management especially to Harte who has been there a decade. I would contend that these matches take on 2 main roles...1)to get the team match fit and 2)to test new panel members against county opponents.

Dress it up whatever way you want, its Harte & co on a power trip to show whos the boss. If Errigal Ciaran were in an AI semi final should he call on those players as well?

Funny you should ask that. In 2003 Mickey Harte was manager of Tyrone and Errigal who were in the All Ireland semi final below and guess what ... The Errigal players took part in the McKenna Cup. See below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/2652517.stm

People are throwing all sorts of accusations out here like Harte is doing it because of Paddy Tally. But the reality is he has taken it seriously from the start and used it to see how new players fit into the team. Many of the players who went on to win the All Ireland in 03 played in the McKenna Cup and it was it he used to settle in his new team. For example McGuigan was played at centre half forward, Devlin at centre half back etc. Its obvious now that with an inexperienced team Harte wants to get them settled in from early in the season and see how other players fit in.

Right back to the Hastings Cup in 2000/2001 Harte took pre season competitions seriously when managing the u21s. If he thinks having the players available for the McKenna Cup is a good thing for Tyrone this year then I'd be disappointed if he didn't push for it. At the end of the day his job is to do what he thinks is best for Tyrone and he has to stand over the results.

Surprised they withdrew over 5 players. I'm sure some of the universities have been effected worse than this in other years. You'd have thought it would have been a good opportunity to use the squad going into the Sigerson. People are blaming Mickey Harte but don't think Queen's are missing too many Tyrone players.

these colleges treat the top players as elite athletes - they get the best coaching, training, facilities available ANYWHERE. Long term beneficiaries are the player, their club, and if they progress, their counties.

And all of this comes at a cost...after all the work they do with the players, its unfair that the colleges don't get first pick, especially if that's what the ulster council have set up as a 'rule'

two key men for St Marys this year will be Morgan and Clarke...will they be on the starting 15 for Tyrone? how much game time will they get thru the McKenna cup for tyrone v the game time they will get thru st marys?

Who benefits most and who has the most to loose? Thats maybe a moot point, but at the end of the day the Ulster council have had the chance YET AGAIN (WHAT HAVE THEY DONE SO FAR WITH KILCOO?)to do the right thing, yet take the path of absolutely no resistance.

there's more balls in the neighbours garden than in the ulster council

I wouldn't try to guess where they'll get more time playing. Based on previous years there is a strong possibilty that Tyrone will get 5 games in the competition versus 3 of St Marys. If that's the case wouldn't be surprised if they end up playing 3 for Tyrone. Tyrone have used the McKenna Cup to set them up for the year ahead since Harte took over and it has delivered positive results.

Niall McKenna didnt get too much ball time last year with tyrone....but i take your point...will be interesting to see how much morgan and clarke get with tyrone

Quickly checked this out cause had a feeling he played a good bit. He started full forward versus Antrim, midfield against Fermanagh in the semi final and also came on against Queens. Not sure if appeared in the final.

these colleges treat the top players as elite athletes - they get the best coaching, training, facilities available ANYWHERE. Long term beneficiaries are the player, their club, and if they progress, their counties.

And all of this comes at a cost...after all the work they do with the players, its unfair that the colleges don't get first pick, especially if that's what the ulster council have set up as a 'rule'

two key men for St Marys this year will be Morgan and Clarke...will they be on the starting 15 for Tyrone? how much game time will they get thru the McKenna cup for tyrone v the game time they will get thru st marys?

Who benefits most and who has the most to loose? Thats maybe a moot point, but at the end of the day the Ulster council have had the chance YET AGAIN (WHAT HAVE THEY DONE SO FAR WITH KILCOO?)to do the right thing, yet take the path of absolutely no resistance.

there's more balls in the neighbours garden than in the ulster council

I wouldn't try to guess where they'll get more time playing. Based on previous years there is a strong possibilty that Tyrone will get 5 games in the competition versus 3 of St Marys. If that's the case wouldn't be surprised if they end up playing 3 for Tyrone. Tyrone have used the McKenna Cup to set them up for the year ahead since Harte took over and it has delivered positive results.

The colleges revived and energised the McKenna cup. Shame that they now look as if they are being forced out cos they can't have their players.

Don't agree with this at all. As someone else pointed out the games involving the colleges are worst attended and I don't buy the lack of 2 counties support as travelling support would be light in the McKenna Cup. They're certainly the games that I least like attending.

Mickey Harte has been knocked on this thread but he did as much to revie the McKenna Cup as anyone. When he took over Tyrone he put big emphasis on it and talked up the games. This was the beginning of a successful period for Tyrone and encouraged others to take it seriously. And obviously people are more likely to go to games when high profile managers place emphasis on them.

The other big factor in reviving it was the change in timing of both it and the leagues. Playing it in January before the league and after a long break from championship meant there was always going to be more emphasis on it and greater interest.

That wasn't a reference to what you said rather a general comment about what he puts up with from a section of Tyrone supporters. Could easily substitute the word for criticism and my points still stand in my opinion.