Sky Sports/Today FM 15 for 15

[blanketattack]

Bit of northern bias there I reckon. No place for the likes of Gooch or brogan?

I think Gooch is ridiculously overrated, a great man to steamroll teams that allow him play and when the opposition collapses but his record against Ulster teams is very poor. He's a great player but you'd have to question him doing it when the chips are down and games are in the melting pot.

I wouldn't say it's a Northern bias either, you look back at the last 15 years and Ulster has had 3 different teams share 5 titles, Down reached a final in 2010, Fermanagh and Derry also reached semi finals and Monaghan and Cavan have made quarter finals. Ulster teams have been competing at the very highest level since the turn of the millennium so it's hardly surprising they should have a big proportion of teams there.

Gooch was very good in Kerry's last two games v Tyrone. Excellent v Derry in '04. Good v Armagh in 06 and 02.
Also forgetting that a lot of these steamrollings are because of performances by Gooch that turned the game into steamrollings e.g. Mayo 04, Mayo 11, Dublin 09.

Definitely went missing less than McConville (03 final, 05 semi, 06 1/4) who's on your team. I rate McConville esp. from 00 and 02 games v Kerry but can't imagine anyone rating him above Gooch.

[ONeill]

I think Gooch is over rated as well, would probably put him on my top 15 put think he is no were near the player Canavan was, in my opinion he is not good enough at winning his own ball, and is helped by the talent that has surrounded him

Gooch is hands down the best forward I've seen play the game. From a skills standpoint there are shots and passes he's made that I've seen no one else make. A lot of these Ulster focused teams seem to be picking players for their ruggedness or physicality. Gooch offers something very unique to a team.

Brian McGuigan was the best passer of a ball in the last 15 years. Gooch a better finisher although when McGuigan took a pop he usually scored.

[ONeill]

1. Clackston

2. M O'Se
3. Owens
4. Higgins

5. T O'Se
6. Gormley
7. Jordan

8. Cavanagh
9. Dara

10. Dooher
11. McDonald
12. B Brogan

13 O'Neill
14 Gooch
15 McDonnell

[Throw ball]

Near impossible

Cluxton
M O'Shea Gormley Higgins
Kerman McGeeney T O'Shea
S Cavanagh D O'Shea
Connolly Cooper McConville
McDonnell Murphy Canavan

Obviously a bit biased to my own county but I could probably pick another 15 that would be equally as good.

[thewobbler]

Cluxton

Marc O Se
Owens
Higgins

Tomas O Se
Moynihan
Lacey

Cavanagh
Darragh O Se

Flynn
McGuigan
McConville

Cooper
Donaghy
Murphy

15 isnt enough. Lockhart, Doyle, Gormley, McDonnell and most of all Dooher could probably improve the team.

Murphy as a corner forward is admittedly a cop out but there's no way a team can be picked without him.

Can't leave out Star. Maybe lacks the consistency of the rest of this team but in my lifetime of watching football I can't think of any single individual who changed how football is played more than him at his peak.

McGuigan might raise eyebrows but if anyone wants to know why Tyrone won 3 All Irelands they should start by looking at their playmaker. McDonald was Stevie G to his Xavi.

[Syferus]

They were big FFs who had the ball lumped up to them long before Star and with much more alround talent to boot. I would never have singled him out as having changed anything.

[ardtole]

Cluxton
Marc O Se
Barry Owens
Keith Higgins
Tomas O Se
Seamus Moynihan
Karl Lacey
Sean Cavanagh
Darragh O Se
Brian Dooher
Pauric Joyce
Declan O Sullivan
Gooch
Peter Canavan
Stevie McDonnell

[Il Bomber Destro]

Bit of northern bias there I reckon. No place for the likes of Gooch or brogan?

I think Gooch is ridiculously overrated, a great man to steamroll teams that allow him play and when the opposition collapses but his record against Ulster teams is very poor. He's a great player but you'd have to question him doing it when the chips are down and games are in the melting pot.

I wouldn't say it's a Northern bias either, you look back at the last 15 years and Ulster has had 3 different teams share 5 titles, Down reached a final in 2010, Fermanagh and Derry also reached semi finals and Monaghan and Cavan have made quarter finals. Ulster teams have been competing at the very highest level since the turn of the millennium so it's hardly surprising they should have a big proportion of teams there.

Well, for a player who has 4-33 in all Ireland finals alone- but they're only all ireland finals it's only the matches against Ulster teams that really matter.

Yeah, but would he get a game before Paddy Bradley?

Oh, wait. Yeah, yeah he would.

I've seen Bradley in action and I've seen Cooper in action. I know that Bradey could master the closest of attention and still come out and win his own ball and wrestle the space he needed to be able to stick it over the bar and in the net again and again. Gooch is probably the top scorer in Championship history? But when you dig deeper into his performances into the closer games, the big ones where Kerry came across the Ulster boys, he was consistently found wanting - even when Kerry beat Armagh in 06, Gooch was a peripheral figure because it was all about Donaghy that day. His scoring record from play against Ulster sides is really poor, particularly in contrast to what he could get against sides who folded against Kerry.

The myth about Cooper continues to perpetuate, anything he does or the mere sight of him on TV is blown out of proportion. There's no way Cooper is in the same league as someone like Canavan who continued to deliver massive performances when he was singled out and was without doubt a player who was pivotal to his team. Gooch was an auxillary forward who had trouble delivering when the chips are down - it's grand doing it against Mayo and Cork teams that choke but where was he the other days?

[Il Bomber Destro]

Bit of northern bias there I reckon. No place for the likes of Gooch or brogan?

I think Gooch is ridiculously overrated, a great man to steamroll teams that allow him play and when the opposition collapses but his record against Ulster teams is very poor. He's a great player but you'd have to question him doing it when the chips are down and games are in the melting pot.

I wouldn't say it's a Northern bias either, you look back at the last 15 years and Ulster has had 3 different teams share 5 titles, Down reached a final in 2010, Fermanagh and Derry also reached semi finals and Monaghan and Cavan have made quarter finals. Ulster teams have been competing at the very highest level since the turn of the millennium so it's hardly surprising they should have a big proportion of teams there.

Gooch was very good in Kerry's last two games v Tyrone. Excellent v Derry in '04. Good v Armagh in 06 and 02.
Also forgetting that a lot of these steamrollings are because of performances by Gooch that turned the game into steamrollings e.g. Mayo 04, Mayo 11, Dublin 09.

Definitely went missing less than McConville (03 final, 05 semi, 06 1/4) who's on your team. I rate McConville esp. from 00 and 02 games v Kerry but can't imagine anyone rating him above Gooch.

Ironic as McConville is the guy who is known for saving his peformances for the big games, his performance against Kerry inn 00 when he took 1-09 off Moynihan and his second half performance in 03 where he inspired Armagh to victory. Say what you want about McConville but he had a track record of coming up with big games when his county really needed him.

[haze]

Cluxton
O'Se
Moynihan (a bit of accomodation here to get Jordan in - I think Moynihan was best defender of the lot)
Lacey
O'Se
MCGeeney
Jordan
O'Se
Cavanagh
Dooher
Joyce
McConville
Brogan
Canavan
Gooch

if Connolly had for another two years or so at the top, then Dooher or McConcville would make way. Murphy the same.

[blanketattack]

Bit of northern bias there I reckon. No place for the likes of Gooch or brogan?

I think Gooch is ridiculously overrated, a great man to steamroll teams that allow him play and when the opposition collapses but his record against Ulster teams is very poor. He's a great player but you'd have to question him doing it when the chips are down and games are in the melting pot.

I wouldn't say it's a Northern bias either, you look back at the last 15 years and Ulster has had 3 different teams share 5 titles, Down reached a final in 2010, Fermanagh and Derry also reached semi finals and Monaghan and Cavan have made quarter finals. Ulster teams have been competing at the very highest level since the turn of the millennium so it's hardly surprising they should have a big proportion of teams there.

Gooch was very good in Kerry's last two games v Tyrone. Excellent v Derry in '04. Good v Armagh in 06 and 02.
Also forgetting that a lot of these steamrollings are because of performances by Gooch that turned the game into steamrollings e.g. Mayo 04, Mayo 11, Dublin 09.

Definitely went missing less than McConville (03 final, 05 semi, 06 1/4) who's on your team. I rate McConville esp. from 00 and 02 games v Kerry but can't imagine anyone rating him above Gooch.

Ironic as McConville is the guy who is known for saving his peformances for the big games, his performance against Kerry inn 00 when he took 1-09 off Moynihan and his second half performance in 03 where he inspired Armagh to victory. Say what you want about McConville but he had a track record of coming up with big games when his county really needed him.

Presume you mean 02 not 03. Going by your criteria for Gooch its games v Ulster opposition that matters most, so on that basis you have to look at McConville's biggest games v Ulster opposition as well which were the 03 final and 05 semi which he was poor in. Gooch was excellent v Tyrone in 08 when the game was in the meeting pot.

[Throw ball]

Bit of northern bias there I reckon. No place for the likes of Gooch or brogan?

I think Gooch is ridiculously overrated, a great man to steamroll teams that allow him play and when the opposition collapses but his record against Ulster teams is very poor. He's a great player but you'd have to question him doing it when the chips are down and games are in the melting pot.

I wouldn't say it's a Northern bias either, you look back at the last 15 years and Ulster has had 3 different teams share 5 titles, Down reached a final in 2010, Fermanagh and Derry also reached semi finals and Monaghan and Cavan have made quarter finals. Ulster teams have been competing at the very highest level since the turn of the millennium so it's hardly surprising they should have a big proportion of teams there.

Gooch was very good in Kerry's last two games v Tyrone. Excellent v Derry in '04. Good v Armagh in 06 and 02.
Also forgetting that a lot of these steamrollings are because of performances by Gooch that turned the game into steamrollings e.g. Mayo 04, Mayo 11, Dublin 09.

Definitely went missing less than McConville (03 final, 05 semi, 06 1/4) who's on your team. I rate McConville esp. from 00 and 02 games v Kerry but can't imagine anyone rating him above Gooch.

Ironic as McConville is the guy who is known for saving his peformances for the big games, his performance against Kerry inn 00 when he took 1-09 off Moynihan and his second half performance in 03 where he inspired Armagh to victory. Say what you want about McConville but he had a track record of coming up with big games when his county really needed him.

Presume you mean 02 not 03. Going by your criteria for Gooch its games v Ulster opposition that matters most, so on that basis you have to look at McConville's biggest games v Ulster opposition as well which were the 03 final and 05 semi which he was poor in. Gooch was excellent v Tyrone in 08 when the game was in the meeting pot.

As an Armagh man I have seen McConville play club and county football. For both he was the go to man in pressure situations. Like all players he had bad games but more often than not he came up trumps when the chips were down. Never had the skill of Gooch but would always be on my team.

[moysider]

Any team that leaves out Higgins is silly. Ant team that leaves out Ciaran McDonald is preposterous.

Some of those chosen ahead  - like arguing that Joe that paints your front wall is a better painter than Picasso.

[Syferus]

Any team that leaves out Higgins is silly. Ant team that leaves out Ciaran McDonald is preposterous.

Some of those chosen ahead  - like arguing that Joe that paints your front wall is a better painter than Picasso.

I'd have D. Brady and Cake as team cheerleaders on any 2000-15 team.

[Highlander3]

I think Gooch is over rated as well, would probably put him on my top 15 put think he is no were near the player Canavan was, in my opinion he is not good enough at winning his own ball, and is helped by the talent that has surrounded him

Gooch is hands down the best forward I've seen play the game. From a skills standpoint there are shots and passes he's made that I've seen no one else make. A lot of these Ulster focused teams seem to be picking players for their ruggedness or physicality. Gooch offers something very unique to a team.

Do you really believe he was better than Canavan? I think he is a great player but he has always played on a team with many other great forwards, I don't think think he would consistently enough win his own ball enough if he was playing for a weaker team