Has the Back door become Redundant?

[From the Bunker]

All i'm saying is that it's foolish for someone to say that kerry lag years behind, as someone did say in earlier post. Kerry's display against tyrone, and with a
People forget very easily, kerry lost last years final with the last kick of the game! Once brosnan went off today i said it was game over, and then sheehan and o sullivan.
In saying that all their best players will be over 30 next year and i don't think they will be any better than this year, so they may struggle.

Sorry, No.

The thing is that was Donegal s most jittery performance I ve seen under McGuinness and still were in an armchair before that last few minutes drama when they dodged a bullet. Kerry are only a shadow of the team of Darragh, Moynihan, Griffin, O Cinnéide and McCarty - the men that used to let Gooch and Donaghy play without burden. Time moves on for every team. That Kerry team were lucky to get out with their reputation still intact today.

This weekend told us a few truths.

Mayo - are not as soft a draw as some would believe.
Donegal - are up to the plate.
Cork - just because they are not playing games does not mean they have gone away.
Dublin - Not playing well, but still turning over teams
Kildare - for all the huffing and puffing, they are not a top table team.
Kerry - their flame is diminishing, no subs bench.
Laois - not as much a make weight as some pundits would make you believe.
Down - Not a shadow of the team of 2010.

[ONeill]

17-a-side and the Bishop of Howth to throw it in.

[Jonah]

All i'm saying is that it's foolish for someone to say that kerry lag years behind, as someone did say in earlier post. Kerry's display against tyrone, and with a
People forget very easily, kerry lost last years final with the last kick of the game! Once brosnan went off today i said it was game over, and then sheehan and o sullivan.
In saying that all their best players will be over 30 next year and i don't think they will be any better than this year, so they may struggle.

Sorry, No.

The thing is that was Donegal s most jittery performance I ve seen under McGuinness and still were in an armchair before that last few minutes drama when they dodged a bullet. Kerry are only a shadow of the team of Darragh, Moynihan, Griffin, O Cinnéide and McCarty - the men that used to let Gooch and Donaghy play without burden. Time moves on for every team. That Kerry team were lucky to get out with their reputation still intact today.

This weekend told us a few truths.

Mayo - are not as soft a draw as some would believe.
Donegal - are up to the plate.
Cork - just because they are not playing games does not mean they have gone away.
Dublin - Not playing well, but still turning over teams
Kildare - for all the huffing and puffing, they are not a top table team.
Kerry - their flame is diminishing, no subs bench.
Laois - not as much a make weight as some pundits would make you believe.
Down - Not a shadow of the team of 2010.

Are these the top 8 teams in the country?

[From the Bunker]

All i'm saying is that it's foolish for someone to say that kerry lag years behind, as someone did say in earlier post. Kerry's display against tyrone, and with a
People forget very easily, kerry lost last years final with the last kick of the game! Once brosnan went off today i said it was game over, and then sheehan and o sullivan.
In saying that all their best players will be over 30 next year and i don't think they will be any better than this year, so they may struggle.

Sorry, No.

The thing is that was Donegal s most jittery performance I ve seen under McGuinness and still were in an armchair before that last few minutes drama when they dodged a bullet. Kerry are only a shadow of the team of Darragh, Moynihan, Griffin, O Cinnéide and McCarty - the men that used to let Gooch and Donaghy play without burden. Time moves on for every team. That Kerry team were lucky to get out with their reputation still intact today.

This weekend told us a few truths.

Mayo - are not as soft a draw as some would believe.
Donegal - are up to the plate.
Cork - just because they are not playing games does not mean they have gone away.
Dublin - Not playing well, but still turning over teams
Kildare - for all the huffing and puffing, they are not a top table team.
Kerry - their flame is diminishing, no subs bench.
Laois - not as much a make weight as some pundits would make you believe.
Down - Not a shadow of the team of 2010.

Are these the top 8 teams in the country?

No, but the semi finalist are probably the top 5!

[Orior]

While you're at it, introduce handicaps in hurling.

Each Cork/KK/Tipp player to carry a rucksack with 100 kilos of sand.

[armaghniac]

A fair handicap would be a bag with replica medals in the number won by the county.

[Ard-Rí]

From a purely selfish point of view, I think we'd prefer the straight knockout here in Meath. That "option" of losing takes a certain degree of desperation out of our play, desperation we had used to great effect in winning games we had no right to win over the years. Losing should be like falling off a cliff, no soft landing. Even in the Qualifiers you couldn't replicate that feeling, having lost already in Championship football. On the other hand, you could say that where the fault is that of a county and not the system, they should shut up and get on with fixing it. I would agree with that sentiment, but how do you tell a group defeat is unacceptable, when you might have to prepare for another game six days later? I know Seán Boylan had similar sentiments regarding the back door system.

On the other hand, I feel it works quite well nationally. It has its faults, and it does cripple the provincial championships considerably, but every county gets at least two days out in the year. Prolonging the agony for some maybe, but on occasion a lesser team can come from nowhere and put a strong together. No big deal for anybody who expects that if we don't win this year we'll surely win next year, but a real help to counties with no successful tradition. Is the back door redundant? No, not until something better is proposed.

[Hound]

It just so happens that the best four teams in the country are from four different provinces. Kerry are up there too, and are capable of beating any of them, but after that there's a bit of a gap.

The current system is almost perfect, in my opinion. Every team gets one chance to win their province, and then one chance to win the All Ireland.

Absolutely nothing to benefit to going to straight knockout, and a champions league style format would lead to dead rubbers, which would mean very poor attendances. The only change I would make would be to even up the provincial championships numberwise.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

All i'm saying is that it's foolish for someone to say that kerry lag years behind, as someone did say in earlier post. Kerry's display against tyrone, and with a
People forget very easily, kerry lost last years final with the last kick of the game! Once brosnan went off today i said it was game over, and then sheehan and o sullivan.
In saying that all their best players will be over 30 next year and i don't think they will be any better than this year, so they may struggle.

Sorry, No.

The thing is that was Donegal s most jittery performance I ve seen under McGuinness and still were in an armchair before that last few minutes drama when they dodged a bullet. Kerry are only a shadow of the team of Darragh, Moynihan, Griffin, O Cinnéide and McCarty - the men that used to let Gooch and Donaghy play without burden. Time moves on for every team. That Kerry team were lucky to get out with their reputation still intact today.

and yet but for a freak goal and injuries to the spine of their team they'd have won......

[From the Bunker]

It just so happens that the best four teams in the country are from four different provinces. Kerry are up there too, and are capable of beating any of them, but after that there's a bit of a gap.

The current system is almost perfect, in my opinion. Every team gets one chance to win their province, and then one chance to win the All Ireland.

Absolutely nothing to benefit to going to straight knockout, and a champions league style format would lead to dead rubbers, which would mean very poor attendances. The only change I would make would be to even up the provincial championships numberwise.

Have to say there is nothing wrong with the current system bar a evening up of provincial teams, jez even that is set up almost perfectly with a 4 x 8 format. The problem is could you tell Longford they are in connacht, how would they feel and who would you put into Munster? Laois and Offaly?

[bcarrier]

Scrap the provincials. 5 points for a goal.

17-a-side and the Bishop of Howth to throw it in.

Blackthorn Boots

[ziggysego]

The back door system has been a resounding success for both the GAA and the teams.

Without it, you wouldn't have teams like Fermanagh competing in an All-Ireland Semi-Final, despite never winning an Ulster title.

[From the Bunker]

Written before the weekend games.

Provincial football champions deserve to have a safety net

By Martin Breheny


Wednesday August 01 2012

THIS is likely to become an issue after next weekend so let's deal with it now. Is it fair that if any of the provincial football champions loses an All-Ireland quarter-final, their championship bid ends?

Meanwhile, their conquerors, who lost a game earlier on, jaunt merrily into the semi-finals. None of the provincial champions would dare discuss the anomaly before the quarter-finals, lest they be accused of getting their excuses in first, just as the crazy six-day turnaround for beaten provincial finalists rarely gets an airing until it directly affects two counties every July.

The official line defends the system by claiming there are two approach routes to the quarter-finals and that each is as meritorious as the other. That argument contends that the quarter-finals represent the real start of the All-Ireland championship on a 4-4 provincial champions/qualifier winner basis, with everything which has gone before largely irrelevant.

Except, of course, it can't be, because however it's presented the reality is that teams beaten in the provinces are allowed to return to the All-Ireland, whereas provincial winners are provided with no safety net.

In effect, there's more joy in All-Ireland heaven for repentant provincial losers than for clean-living winners.

The figures show the success ratio in quarter-finals between provincial champions and qualifiers is pretty much even. Of the 44 quarter-finals played since 2001, it's 23-21 to provincial winners.

Last year was the first season when all four provincial winners (Dublin, Kerry, Donegal Mayo) survived the quarter-final fence but a year earlier, the reverse was the case when qualifiers Down, Dublin, Cork and Kildare all won.

Quickly

Benny Coulter got it spot on following Down's qualifier win over Tipperary on Saturday when he spoke of how his side had re-energised themselves so quickly after the Ulster final.

They felt that an 11-point defeat by Donegal was an unfair reflection on their performance, and Coulter spoke of how they refocused with an overnight stay in a hotel that night. Six days later, they beat Tipp.

"We're back in the same position as Donegal now," he said.

Actually, they are better-placed than Donegal. The quarter-final draw paired Down with Mayo, the least-fancied of the provincial champions, while Donegal drew Kerry, the qualifier survivors everybody wanted to avoid.

Donegal must be wondering why the gods have been so unkind. They were drawn in the preliminary round in Ulster both this year and last year and when they won all eight games, becoming the first county to win the two-in-a-row by the longest possible route, they got Kerry in the quarter-finals.

They are the only provincial winners who are bookies' outsiders for the quarter-finals. Not exactly the break they deserved, now is it?

Dublin and Tyrone attempted to have the championship format tweaked at the 2010 Congress but didn't get much support. They proposed that only two qualifiers be given an opportunity of reaching the semi-finals.

The four provincial champions would play off, with the winners qualifying for the semi-finals, while the losers played two qualifiers.

If that applied this year, next weekend's pairings would be Dublin v Mayo, Donegal v Cork, plus two games from a draw involving Kerry, Kildare, Down, Laois. The losers from the provincial champions' games would then play the two qualifier winners.

That system guarantees two provincial champions in the semi-finals every year, while the other two get a second chance. However, it was rejected amid predictable claims that it would further clog the calendar, leaving less time for club action.

The fact that many counties have hardly any senior club championship action for long spells in summer was ignored once the classic 'we need to think of the grassroots' line was introduced.

Remarkably, that wasn't an issue when Congress decided to restore replays for early-round provincial games and All-Ireland quarter-finals.

Donegal v Kildare went to extra-time in last year's quarter-final but replays will apply in the event of draws next weekend. If that happens, we can take it there will be no club action in the counties involved.

When the new system was first mooted, the primacy of the provincial championships in the All-Ireland race was supposed to be protected, to some degree at least, by giving the champions home advantage in the quarter-finals.

It never happened and, 11 years on, there's still no direct benefit from winning the provincial title -- the Donegal and Down examples are proof positive of that.

[Rossfan]

This oul sh1te regurgitated by the worst GAA journalist in the Country.
The present system is almost perfect and the amount of money it brings in means that it will take some system to replace it 
What I don't get is this illogical rubbish about "evening up the Provinces".
The Provinces are as they are and the only way you can have 4 eights is to replace the Provinces with Regions  or Divisions or Conferences e.g Western, Northern etc.
Question is will this also apply to Hurling and underage as well?
No matter what semantics you come up with to keep the Provinces -  Longford is in Leinster full stop.
It's bad enough having Galway and Antrim playing in the Leinster Hurling Championship but there's a logic behind it as there are no other hurling Counties in their existing Provinces.
But rubbish about "putting" Donegal or Longford in Connacht is off the wall.
Will all their teams be "put" in Connacht or just their Senior County teams. Will Longford and Donegal have delegates to the Connacht Council or the Leinster Council. What if we end up with the ultimate nonsense -- a "Connacht Final" between Donegal and Longford.
Only way you can have 8 teams in Connacht is for Galway and Mayo to be split and for Cork and Kerry to be split in Munster.
Then you'll need amalgamations in Leinster and Ulster.
Otherwise they are not Connacht , Leinster etc.

[From the Bunker]

Written before the weekend games.

Provincial football champions deserve to have a safety net

By Martin Breheny


Wednesday August 01 2012

Oh by the way the article is rubbish, especially with hindsight!