Mayo v Galway NFL Division 1. 7/2/2010

[moysider]

i love thy way ever one ageees FBD form counts for nothing when a team is winning well but protends omens of doom when we lose or scrape out a few Victories.
this is not the time for slagging JOM(that was what winter was for ). so lets start out the year again with a clean slate nearing in mind that probably no more than 7 of sundays starters will start come june and with the exception of A ose none of sundays forward might start the championship with Dillion Whacko Bmoran killer and  p harte  all to come in and what about AOM and  BJP? and Aidan Campbell must be pursued a player of real quality.
in other words we've seen nothing yet and ive seen no reason to believe we have slipped back to galways level

Thing is Ros most teams have had their big guns out by now. You ve listed 7 'forwards' whose current location is unknown. This is about the 50th year in a row that we go with winter and summer teams. It s a joke. So after 3 summers of confusion we ll get a touring side again this summer. But most of the names will be familiar for the summer fans. Oh X,Y and Z are still playing. Lovely. Should win so.

[moysider]

Yesterday s team had the look of the team that s going to start the league. Clarkey, O Mal, Caff, Vaughan, Gard, How, Hig, O S, Parsons, Andy, Kelly, Trevor, Var, O S, Ron.

Ah come on now Moysider, don't be that lazy. I thought I was reading the Dublin team for a minute there!

I know, I know. Should nt be doin this any more.

[rosnarun]

with amateuer sport thought there is only a certain call a county has on players
dont think any one can begrudge dillion ans conor having gone off , those 2 have dedicated most of thier youth to mayo football and i rather see them take a wee break than retire early morand kilcoyne are injured. harte has work issues i think Campbell absence is a tragedy and i don't know the status of BJp and AOM . anyone any clues?
But there is loads to be positive about . A Osé will go from strength to strength. I thonk S osé's time has come too, douglas and keegan look like real contenders Ronald son seems to be making the step up , with a refreshed dillon and mortimer back i think we could be in for a long summer again.
If you can't be optimistic this time of the years f**k it altogether.

[stephenite]

Good man Ros - negativity has been depressing. Feck all won at this time of year, and we have what we have. There's very few footballers left out that either aren't that bit too old or don't have the discipline to make it

[southsidejohnny]

In fairness Stehenite you put up sensible posts so I hope you accept this one in the spirit its posted. I have gone to Mayo matchs since 1965. I have seen highs and lows. A pattern develops and at the moment we are in the bullshit pattern where a manager that has lost his way is spoofing us in the hope it comes right. Listen to the posts. All are saying Barry Kelly is played out of position. But does O Mahoney care? The answer is no because Kelly aint going to feature on Johnnos team.
OMahoney was given a simple brief in 2006, remember? it was to drive on a team that had misfired in two finals. His response and modus operandi was to lower expectations and rebuild. Well for one I am pissed off. Expectations are at an all time low, we have six forwards as defenders, if we persevere with McGarrity and Parsons at mid we will be eaten. As for the forwards does it matter if Dillon, Mort, Killer, B Moran are out. None can put two successive successful matches together. Mayo has turned into a club side with all the s%**T that goes with it.A copmplete clearout is needed and that starts with O Mahoney. But that aint going to happen

[Barney]

I think JOM is treating the Meath game last Summer as an aberration after what he considers a relatively successful championship.

And it was relatively successful. The Galway and Roscommon wins were very satisfactory. The late collapse against Galway and Meath raises questions about fitness. So there are two possibilities that arise in my view -

1. was the training programme sufficient, timed properly? Have there been any changes in who is training the team? I can't answer the first, the answer to the second is no.

2. Players that came into the "Summer Team" as classed by moysider did not have the sufficient hard work done to play full championship pelt football - Keith Higgins, Trevor Howley, Barry Moran, David Heaney and Aidan Kilcoyne - that is 1/3 of the team. It cannot be done. This year for one reason or another we are starting the season without likely championship regulars in Mortimer, Dillon, Kilcoyne, Barry Moran, Tom Cunniffe and Pat Harte. Same problem.

Neither issue appears to have been addressed.

Where there is a maturity amongst Mayo supporters this time around is that the reality of the lack of fight in the Meath game has lead to people questioning players and management, and the diabolical refereeing on that day has not been held up as an excuse. Has the same kind of post-mortem been carried out by the team? If so, that is a positive. Because we need lads who are prepared to grow a pair in the tough games - we saw last year against Galway in Tuam that there is fight in a lot of these fellas. Why does it only come out against Galway? We need to look beyhond that.

Defensively we are just not at it. We could start on Sunday with Liam O'Malley on Nicky Joyce again. Now maybe he will get away with it in winter but who would mortgage their house on him getting the better of the Galway man come Summer.

I agree with Ros about Aidan Campbell - something should be done to get this man playing for Mayo again. Huge potential and may need an arm around the shoulder. That is what JOM used to be good at - look at times when certain players in Galway were in a bit of bother, he brought them through and got the best out of them.

Reckon there will be a very poor crowd in Castlebar on Sunday. People are just fed up with the politicing, the back-biting, the sub-standard performances. It is sad because Mayo is such a passionate football county as can be seen from the nonsense we all type here. There is a good group of players available with potential. There is a good group of players at minor and under 21 level. We can have a very successful future but it needs everybody pulling together management, County Board and supporters. We have never done that before in Mayo and maybe opportunities will be lost again.

[small white mayoman]

I agree with Ros about Aidan Campbell - something should be done to get this man playing for Mayo again. Huge potential and may need an arm around the shoulder. That is what JOM used to be good at - look at times when certain players in Galway were in a bit of bother, he brought them through and got the best out of them.

used been the most important word there , his man management skills have just gone out the window all you have to do is look at the way he is treating some of the players, he has disregarded quality players and other  players just have not improved under his management look at conor mort last year

[stephenite]

In fairness Stehenite you put up sensible posts so I hope you accept this one in the spirit its posted. I have gone to Mayo matchs since 1965. I have seen highs and lows. A pattern develops and at the moment we are in the bullshit pattern where a manager that has lost his way is spoofing us in the hope it comes right. Listen to the posts. All are saying Barry Kelly is played out of position. But does O Mahoney care? The answer is no because Kelly aint going to feature on Johnnos team.
OMahoney was given a simple brief in 2006, remember? it was to drive on a team that had misfired in two finals. His response and modus operandi was to lower expectations and rebuild. Well for one I am pissed off. Expectations are at an all time low, we have six forwards as defenders, if we persevere with McGarrity and Parsons at mid we will be eaten. As for the forwards does it matter if Dillon, Mort, Killer, B Moran are out. None can put two successive successful matches together. Mayo has turned into a club side with all the s%**T that goes with it.A copmplete clearout is needed and that starts with O Mahoney. But that aint going to happen

No problem with the spirit of the post - and I accept you're greater experience in all the years you've watched Mayo.

However, to your post - you talk of a complete clearout, who are the replacements you'd have in mind as manager and key players.

A new manager is fine, but I don't see where the new players are coming from?

[Lar Naparka]

As I write this, there are 16 straight posts, from Iolar to swm, that I can totally accept and that 16 includes GBB's apt observation.
Janey! Barney is in eloquent form today but, more importantly, he was spot on with his assessment. If one were to go by the tenor of posts here, Mayo fans aren't happy bunnies right now and there is no reason why posters on here can't be taken as a representative sample of Mayo fans in general.

Thing is Ros most teams have had their big guns out by now. You ve listed 7 'forwards' whose current location is unknown. This is about the 50th year in a row that we go with winter and summer teams. It s a joke.

Well, I can go back 50 years and never lost the faith along the way either. We have never had quite the same situation that we have now. We have had pretty talented minor and u21 sides for a good number of years now and while one solitary u21 title isn't a brilliant return, there are many other counties who would love to have the emerging talent we ought to be looking at right now. We also had the most battle-hardened bunch of vets on hand, with the exception of Kerry, when O'Mahony took over for the '07 season.
I really don't know why Aidan Campbell and Ciaran Mac were dropped and I accept that it's the manager's prerogative to pick his squad. Maybe it's not fair to compare John O'Mahony with Jack O'Connor in this regard but it is fair to record that Jack kept his personnel problems out of the public arena as team and manager kept their concentration on the task in hand.
Can the same be said for Johnno?
If he says a manager can only do so much, I will be on his side, with one subtle reservation:  How much is so much? If he means as much as he possibly can, I don't think any manager can be faulted. The same goes for players; if they play to the best of their abilities and still come up short, they shouldn't feel they have let their county down.
I'm thinking here of the Meath v Kerry game last season.
Meath were well beaten on merit. But, while I know Meath fans were disappointed, I haven't heard any of them claiming it was a lack of commitment form either the team or the manager that got them scalded.
If Mayo had beaten Meath and gone on to face Kerry, I doubt very much that Mayo fans would be feeling in a similar, charitable mood afterwards.

Maybe John Bannon really did us a big favour when he reffed our game with Meath? I get no pleasure from criticising my own county and all its team represents for me but I do keep an eye on the history of past performances and I'm not feeling upbeat right now. This really has to be Johnno's make or break year. After all, this is his fourth year in charge and there is sweet damn all to show for his efforts and the same goes for those who play for him also.
To give him due credit, he seems to be coming up with some idea of the side he has in mind and he may feel that he is starting to get the lads who will play to his way of thinking.  This year will tell and I'd only ask that himself and his team show some sign of steady progress and will wind the season up saying they gave it their best shot.
I'm often told that I always put sentiment before sense where Mayo are concerned but I don't think I am asking for a lot in this case.

[muppet]

Mayo will win Sam this year.

Other than that gem of wisdom the only comments I'd like to make is that we really need to move away from picking players out of position. Andy Moran for example is a very good player and has a huge work rate but is not a defender. Might be worth a shout at 11 but he must be picked up front.

In the backs we still have about 6 half backs and no corner backs. Feeney & Caffekey have played a lot of football in the fullback line and maybe along with Kevin Keane we could start a back 3 who always play there. Half backs need Higgins on the left with any 2 from Howley, Cunniffe, O'Malley, Barrett & Vaughan. I'd give O'Malley his U-21 2004 berth at 6 a go in a league game or two while trying one or two other options also.

Midfield sees us with players who have played well in the past but are going backwards. That is a bad sign. Seamus O'Sé deserves a look while I always thought Barry Moran would make it here but that doesn't seem to be happening either.

Up front looks better than it has for a while with the likes of Dillon, Trevor & Andy to be added to my favourite FF line of Killer, Pillar & Thriller. I always rated Ronaldson though and it is good to see a few new faces challenging.

[moysider]

I think JOM is treating the Meath game last Summer as an aberration after what he considers a relatively successful championship.

And it was relatively successful. The Galway and Roscommon wins were very satisfactory. The late collapse against Galway and Meath raises questions about fitness. So there are two possibilities that arise in my view -

1. was the training programme sufficient, timed properly?Have the re been any changes in who is training the team? I can't answer the first, the answer to the second is no.

2. Players that came into the "Summer Team" as classed by moysider did not have the sufficient hard work done to play full championship pelt football - Keith Higgins, Trevor Howley, Barry Moran, David Heaney and Aidan Kilcoyne - that is 1/3 of the team. It cannot be done. This year for one reason or another we are starting the season without likely championship regulars in Mortimer, Dillon, Kilcoyne, Barry Moran, Tom Cunniffe and Pat Harte. Same problem.

Neither issue appears to have been addressed.

Where there is a maturity amongst Mayo supporters this time around is that the reality of the lack of fight in the Meath game has lead to people questioning players and management, and the diabolical refereeing on that day has not been held up as an excuse. Has the same kind of post-mortem been carried out by the team? If so, that is a positive. Because we need lads who are prepared to grow a pair in the tough games - we saw last year against Galway in Tuam that there is fight in a lot of these fellas. Why does it only come out against Galway? We need to look beyhond that.

Defensively we are just not at it. We could start on Sunday with Liam O'Malley on Nicky Joyce again. Now maybe he will get away with it in winter but who would mortgage their house on him getting the better of the Galway man come Summer.

I agree with Ros about Aidan Campbell - something should be done to get this man playing for Mayo again. Huge potential and may need an arm around the shoulder. That is what JOM used to be good at - look at times when certain players in Galway were in a bit of bother, he brought them through and got the best out of them.

Reckon there will be a very poor crowd in Castlebar on Sunday. People are just fed up with the politicing, the back-biting, the sub-standard performances. It is sad because Mayo is such a passionate football county as can be seen from the nonsense we all type here. There is a good group of players available with potential. There is a good group of players at minor and under 21 level. We can have a very successful future but it needs everybody pulling together management, County Board and supporters. We have never done that before in Mayo and maybe opportunities will be lost again.

I have expressed doubts about the fitness regime on here a few times. However I believe there has been a change in who is training the team - at least for a while. If last years set up resumes or has resumed I m not sure.
As regards JOM s and used to be good at man management. Yeah there were times in Galway when a couple of players threw the rattles out of the pram. Unlike in Mayo they were quickly back on board. Why? I think we need to look further than JOM for the answer.

[moysider]

On a different note here s an interesting quote from Big Joe from todays Independent interview.

"The one thing about Galway is that they were great footballers but when they didn't have the ball, they didn't work hard enough to get it back and that's what we're going to try and get them to do. To work harder to get the ball."

Hmmmmmm. I always thought that likes of Savo Finnegan, Clancy etc used to work really hard at closing down defenders when they did nt win the ball. If fairness to Johnno he used to be bawling 'pressure' constantly from the side line. He s even got Conoreen hanging out of defenders last year. I wonder will Johnno take the bait and ate him like he did poor auld Paudí. Johnno s getting it from all sides.

Of course Johnno did not play with 8 defenders. Is that what Joe has in mind with work harder? When Forde went down the negative, defensive route it did n't go down well. Maybe Joe will be a better bully and maybe 9 years on from 01 people wll be more inclined to accept a more 'practical' approach. This could be interesting. Could we see Galway playing with 3 forwards - Armstrong, Nicky J and Meeehan say- with the rest of the team packed with defenders and dirt trackers?

[bucko]

Mayo will win Sam this year.

Other than that gem of wisdom the only comments I'd like to make is that we really need to move away from picking players out of position. Andy Moran for example is a very good player and has a huge work rate but is not a defender. Might be worth a shout at 11 but he must be picked up front.

In the backs we still have about 6 half backs and no corner backs. Feeney & Caffekey have played a lot of football in the fullback line and maybe along with Kevin Keane we could start a back 3 who always play there. Half backs need Higgins on the left with any 2 from Howley, Cunniffe, O'Malley, Barrett & Vaughan. I'd give O'Malley his U-21 2004 berth at 6 a go in a league game or two while trying one or two other options also.
Midfield sees us with players who have played well in the past but are going backwards. That is a bad sign. Seamus O'Sé deserves a look while I always thought Barry Moran would make it here but that doesn't seem to be happening either.

Up front looks better than it has for a while with the likes of Dillon, Trevor & Andy to be added to my favourite FF line of Killer, Pillar & Thriller. I always rated Ronaldson though and it is good to see a few new faces challenging.

Andy's probably the logical choice at CHF for the league, he's a better forward than a defender, showed a decent enough foot passing ability during the c'ship, has serious workrate and a little bit of strength and bite in him.

O'Malley did give a great performance at CHB in U21 final in 2004, him and Howley were the only reason Mayo were still in the game after the first half. Question is tho, after MacHale classed him as a potential replacement for Jimmy Nallen, why have successive managements played him in the corner ever since, bar a 20 min run as a sub at wing back v Galway in 2005 CF? I felt that alot of criticism toward him after the connacht final last year was a bit unfair, granted Nicky Joyce made hay, but O'Malley was only a week back training after a 5 week layoff with injury. And what did Nicky Joyce do the week after against Donegal? Sod all and got subbed!

I see Connelly speaking in the Mayo News today about midfield and players needing to stand up, spot on with both points. Poor midfield performance and lack of leadership is why we lost to Meath last year. McGarrity really has to step up as a player and now a senior member of the squad. He set a high standard for himself in 2006, I've only seen flashes of those performances since he came back from illness. Ditto Parsons, set a high mark in 2008 and has dropped a good way from it. Consistancy of high performances is what they both need to produce. I still have doubt over the 2 of them as a partnership, one of them alongside a more workhorse, physical player, maybe Seamus O'Shea might be a better option(I had hoped James Kilcullen, was disappointed when I seen he wasn't in the squad, liked what I saw of him at club level) I was always told thet your backline is only as good as the midfield in front of them!

[IolarCoisCuain]

On a different note here s an interesting quote from Big Joe from todays Independent interview.

"The one thing about Galway is that they were great footballers but when they didn't have the ball, they didn't work hard enough to get it back and that's what we're going to try and get them to do. To work harder to get the ball."

Hmmmmmm. I always thought that likes of Savo Finnegan, Clancy etc used to work really hard at closing down defenders when they did nt win the ball. If fairness to Johnno he used to be bawling 'pressure' constantly from the side line. He s even got Conoreen hanging out of defenders last year. I wonder will Johnno take the bait and ate him like he did poor auld Paudí. Johnno s getting it from all sides.

Of course Johnno did not play with 8 defenders. Is that what Joe has in mind with work harder? When Forde went down the negative, defensive route it did n't go down well. Maybe Joe will be a better bully and maybe 9 years on from 01 people wll be more inclined to accept a more 'practical' approach. This could be interesting. Could we see Galway playing with 3 forwards - Armstrong, Nicky J and Meeehan say- with the rest of the team packed with defenders and dirt trackers?

Ah God, I hope it doesn't come to that. Galway are some of the great aristocrats of football. Why, it's actually a treat getting beaten by them, such is the poetry of their peileadóireacht. My Galway friends have assured me of this on several occasions. Several. Thinking about them packing defences with dirt trackers - why, it'd be like Marie Antoinette down in the kitchen, peeling praties or scrubbing floors, her eyes wet with tears. Say it ain't so Moysider, say it ain't so!

[moysider]

Mayo will win Sam this year.

Other than that gem of wisdom the only comments I'd like to make is that we really need to move away from picking players out of position. Andy Moran for example is a very good player and has a huge work rate but is not a defender. Might be worth a shout at 11 but he must be picked up front.

In the backs we still have about 6 half backs and no corner backs. Feeney & Caffekey have played a lot of football in the fullback line and maybe along with Kevin Keane we could start a back 3 who always play there. Half backs need Higgins on the left with any 2 from Howley, Cunniffe, O'Malley, Barrett & Vaughan. I'd give O'Malley his U-21 2004 berth at 6 a go in a league game or two while trying one or two other options also.
Midfield sees us with players who have played well in the past but are going backwards. That is a bad sign. Seamus O'Sé deserves a look while I always thought Barry Moran would make it here but that doesn't seem to be happening either.

Up front looks better than it has for a while with the likes of Dillon, Trevor & Andy to be added to my favourite FF line of Killer, Pillar & Thriller. I always rated Ronaldson though and it is good to see a few new faces challenging.

Andy's probably the logical choice at CHF for the league, he's a better forward than a defender, showed a decent enough foot passing ability during the c'ship, has serious workrate and a little bit of strength and bite in him.

O'Malley did give a great performance at CHB in U21 final in 2004, him and Howley were the only reason Mayo were still in the game after the first half. Question is tho, after MacHale classed him as a potential replacement for Jimmy Nallen, why have successive managements played him in the corner ever since, bar a 20 min run as a sub at wing back v Galway in 2005 CF? I felt that alot of criticism toward him after the connacht final last year was a bit unfair, granted Nicky Joyce made hay, but O'Malley was only a week back training after a 5 week layoff with injury. And what did Nicky Joyce do the week after against Donegal? Sod all and got subbed!

I see Connelly speaking in the Mayo News today about midfield and players needing to stand up, spot on with both points. Poor midfield performance and lack of leadership is why we lost to Meath last year. McGarrity really has to step up as a player and now a senior member of the squad. He set a high standard for himself in 2006, I've only seen flashes of those performances since he came back from illness. Ditto Parsons, set a high mark in 2008 and has dropped a good way from it. Consistancy of high performances is what they both need to produce. I still have doubt over the 2 of them as a partnership, one of them alongside a more workhorse, physical player, maybe Seamus O'Shea might be a better option(I had hoped James Kilcullen, was disappointed when I seen he wasn't in the squad, liked what I saw of him at club level) I was always told thet your backline is only as good as the midfield in front of them!

Good stuff.

My own thoughts about lads ending up corner back on Mayo teams is that they are the ones that make a better fist of it. I mean the reason O Malley and say Keith have ended up in corners and Peadar Gardiner has n't is that O Mal and Hig can do it better. But both are basically half backs as well doing the best they can in an alien position. O Malley is a fine player in his position. Playing for his club he is a stand out player.
I believe this is a bit of a monster we have created in this county. We demand a footballer in every position of the field and maybe we should be looking for a few anti-footballers at say 2 and 4. In rugby one of the crucial positions is a brute of a tighthead prop. If Mayo were a rugby team we probably would nt have any props in the squad at all and end up with 2 openside flankers in the front row. After 3 years rebuilding we dont have a top class corner back. Playing in div 1 and expecting to win big championship matches we need defenders.
Leadership is an issue. The trouble with leadership is that it is either in a lad or not for the most part. This squad is low on leaders. Which makes it more baffling likes of Aidan Higgins is left out.