Author Topic: the future of the Intercounty game  (Read 4039 times)

tonto1888

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #90 on: October 26, 2017, 10:46:43 PM »
I'm afraid the population imbalances are going to worsen in a shorter timeframe than I or Lar thought.
An ESRI report on the Health Service estimates a 1m increase in the 26 Co population by 2030 - 12 years and 3 months away.
12 years and 3 months ago was July 2005 .....
Most of that 1m will be within 30/40 miles of O'Connell Bridge in the 5 Counties that already have  population of 2.1m.
So how does the GAA make representative football more competitive so that 20 odd Counties aren't permanently excluded from the closing stages?
Why do the Emlyn Mulligans or Mickey Quinns play their entire IC careers and only about 10,000 people at most will ever see them play?

It's a massive challenge but as I said, counties with big populations should be able to produce 15-20 very good footballers if they have good structures. Dublin are proof that population doesn't matter if the structures are not there to utilise those numbers.

Clearly there are serious issues for the likes of Roscommon, Longford etc. but it isn't as simple as saying join them together. I'd suggest we look at the funding available for smaller counties and competition structures first. Look at Tipperary who went from being a weak to average team into a very competitive team by good work at underage. AZ is involved there I think so could tell us more but the bottom line is many counties can and should be doing better and if money is the issue then lets address that first.

Even before they were winning every AI they were humiliating the rest of their province without breaking much of a sweat. I canít recall a time Dublin havenít been in the mix for the last four or werenít one of the contenders for the AI.

You're not very old are you?

Syferus

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #91 on: October 26, 2017, 11:01:28 PM »
I'm afraid the population imbalances are going to worsen in a shorter timeframe than I or Lar thought.
An ESRI report on the Health Service estimates a 1m increase in the 26 Co population by 2030 - 12 years and 3 months away.
12 years and 3 months ago was July 2005 .....
Most of that 1m will be within 30/40 miles of O'Connell Bridge in the 5 Counties that already have  population of 2.1m.
So how does the GAA make representative football more competitive so that 20 odd Counties aren't permanently excluded from the closing stages?
Why do the Emlyn Mulligans or Mickey Quinns play their entire IC careers and only about 10,000 people at most will ever see them play?

It's a massive challenge but as I said, counties with big populations should be able to produce 15-20 very good footballers if they have good structures. Dublin are proof that population doesn't matter if the structures are not there to utilise those numbers.

Clearly there are serious issues for the likes of Roscommon, Longford etc. but it isn't as simple as saying join them together. I'd suggest we look at the funding available for smaller counties and competition structures first. Look at Tipperary who went from being a weak to average team into a very competitive team by good work at underage. AZ is involved there I think so could tell us more but the bottom line is many counties can and should be doing better and if money is the issue then lets address that first.

Even before they were winning every AI they were humiliating the rest of their province without breaking much of a sweat. I canít recall a time Dublin havenít been in the mix for the last four or werenít one of the contenders for the AI.

You're not very old are you?

Youíre really reaching now.

dublin7

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #92 on: October 27, 2017, 08:32:43 AM »
I'm afraid the population imbalances are going to worsen in a shorter timeframe than I or Lar thought.
An ESRI report on the Health Service estimates a 1m increase in the 26 Co population by 2030 - 12 years and 3 months away.
12 years and 3 months ago was July 2005 .....
Most of that 1m will be within 30/40 miles of O'Connell Bridge in the 5 Counties that already have  population of 2.1m.
So how does the GAA make representative football more competitive so that 20 odd Counties aren't permanently excluded from the closing stages?
Why do the Emlyn Mulligans or Mickey Quinns play their entire IC careers and only about 10,000 people at most will ever see them play?

It's a massive challenge but as I said, counties with big populations should be able to produce 15-20 very good footballers if they have good structures. Dublin are proof that population doesn't matter if the structures are not there to utilise those numbers.

Clearly there are serious issues for the likes of Roscommon, Longford etc. but it isn't as simple as saying join them together. I'd suggest we look at the funding available for smaller counties and competition structures first. Look at Tipperary who went from being a weak to average team into a very competitive team by good work at underage. AZ is involved there I think so could tell us more but the bottom line is many counties can and should be doing better and if money is the issue then lets address that first.

Even before they were winning every AI they were humiliating the rest of their province without breaking much of a sweat. I canít recall a time Dublin havenít been in the mix for the last four or werenít one of the contenders for the AI.

You're not very old are you?

Youíre really reaching now.

From 1996 - 2001 the dubs were rebuilding under Mickey Whelan/Tommy Carr and were basically Ciaran Whelan and 14 others.  He carried that team on his back in those years and I seen them ship some heavy defeats around the country in the league.  Even under Pillar Caffrey while the dubs began to dominate Leinster they struggled to get past the qtr final stage.

AZOffaly

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #93 on: October 27, 2017, 10:19:43 AM »
There is no real way back! You take money away from Dublin now and there would be consternation. They are used to having it now and their system depends on it. There is not enough to go around to other counties to even things up with Dublin. It is what it is! Super 8 gives Dublin two chances to mess up and still win an All Ireland. I read talk here about how far Tipperary have gone! How far have they really gone. Would they get within 9 points of Dublin? Can anyone see them winning a Munster title?

Tipp have come on massively in fairness. From division 4 cannon fodder to Division 2, with an All Ireland Semi Final appearance. They are not in the top 4 or 6 teams in the country, but they are unrecognisable from years ago.

However, that will change too, unless they cop on. The hurling lads have put the foot down, and killed off the dual player at underage, which means even at 15/16 we are losing lads now. Those sort of self inflicted wounds are as bad as anything Croke Park does or doesn't do. Very frustrating.

tonto1888

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #94 on: October 27, 2017, 10:20:57 AM »
I'm afraid the population imbalances are going to worsen in a shorter timeframe than I or Lar thought.
An ESRI report on the Health Service estimates a 1m increase in the 26 Co population by 2030 - 12 years and 3 months away.
12 years and 3 months ago was July 2005 .....
Most of that 1m will be within 30/40 miles of O'Connell Bridge in the 5 Counties that already have  population of 2.1m.
So how does the GAA make representative football more competitive so that 20 odd Counties aren't permanently excluded from the closing stages?
Why do the Emlyn Mulligans or Mickey Quinns play their entire IC careers and only about 10,000 people at most will ever see them play?

It's a massive challenge but as I said, counties with big populations should be able to produce 15-20 very good footballers if they have good structures. Dublin are proof that population doesn't matter if the structures are not there to utilise those numbers.

Clearly there are serious issues for the likes of Roscommon, Longford etc. but it isn't as simple as saying join them together. I'd suggest we look at the funding available for smaller counties and competition structures first. Look at Tipperary who went from being a weak to average team into a very competitive team by good work at underage. AZ is involved there I think so could tell us more but the bottom line is many counties can and should be doing better and if money is the issue then lets address that first.

Even before they were winning every AI they were humiliating the rest of their province without breaking much of a sweat. I canít recall a time Dublin havenít been in the mix for the last four or werenít one of the contenders for the AI.

You're not very old are you?

Youíre really reaching now.

how am I reaching? If you really cant recall a time when they haven't been in the mix for the AI or in the last four then you really aren't very old

from 2000-2009 they had 3 semi final appearances and a couple of spankings in the QFs. In 2003 we beat the well in a round 3 qualifier. This decade is a very different story
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 10:30:59 AM by tonto1888 »

Rossfan

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #95 on: October 27, 2017, 11:07:24 AM »
AZ - experiencing the "joys" of promoting football in a hurley County :-\
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AZOffaly

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #96 on: October 27, 2017, 11:25:02 AM »
AZ - experiencing the "joys" of promoting football in a hurley County :-\

They like their football too, but hurling is and will remain #1. The problem is the last minor manager convinced them that getting to an All Ireland Football and Hurling Minor Final in the same year was a failure because they won neither. Therefore he refused to pick anyone that chose football over hurling for his minors the next year. They won the All Ireland, while the footballers lost both games and were out early. Of course then he goes back and cherry picks a couple of footballers who miraculously hadn't forgotten how to hurl and one of them was MOTM in the All Ireland final. That same group was with me and there were easily 8 or 9 lads on the hurling who would have been on the football. They won the Munster U16 Football 2 years previously. Granted Kerry were still North/South but to go from that to not winning a game at Minor was a direct result of the policy.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 11:27:33 AM by AZOffaly »

johnneycool

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #97 on: October 27, 2017, 11:26:31 AM »
AZ - experiencing the "joys" of promoting football in a hurley County :-\

Try promoting hurling in a footballing county, its just the same joyous experience.

Rossfan

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #98 on: October 27, 2017, 11:42:55 AM »
So we can rule out  6 Hurling Counties (Cork's pop ensures they can compete at football) of Wexford, Kilkenny,  Waterford, Tipp, Limerick and Clare competing for Sam in addition to the 11 little Counties plus Antrim, Louth, Wicklow and London.
Leaves us with 12 regular or potential regular Sam competitors.
I expect the current "crisis" will be considered over when a couple more of the big Counties can beat Dublin once in a while and big crowds will come out to watch.
Rest of us live in hope of the odd Longford shock or Ros or Monaghan punching above our weight. Sligo might shnake an oul Connacht every 30 years.
It's a lot to be asking lads to basically give up on having a life for.
But we won't be going back to pure amateur pastime at IC level and we're not going to pay the lads so......?

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Farrandeelin

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #99 on: October 27, 2017, 01:28:52 PM »
If Mayo won the final this year would people be complaining?
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mrhardyannual

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #100 on: October 27, 2017, 01:49:38 PM »
If Mayo won the final this year would people be complaining?
This discussion based on demographics is going nowhere. The 2014 census shows Louth with a population 2000 less than Mayo and it has far less problems in terms of distance to travel to work, college etc. No reason why GAA shouldnt flourish here but it doesn't. Meath has approx 50% greater population than Mayo, huge geographical advantages, a recent? history of All -Ireland wins, a leading collehe in St Pats Navan yet neither county or club teams are challenging. Some hard looking at internal workings of these counties should be the first order of business.

Syferus

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #101 on: October 27, 2017, 02:58:51 PM »
If Mayo won the final this year would people be complaining?

Yes.

Trying to say a one-off match changes anything about financial or demographic realities is genuinely crazy, Farr.

seafoid

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #102 on: October 27, 2017, 03:20:03 PM »
If Mayo won the final this year would people be complaining?
This discussion based on demographics is going nowhere. The 2014 census shows Louth with a population 2000 less than Mayo and it has far less problems in terms of distance to travel to work, college etc. No reason why GAA shouldnt flourish here but it doesn't. Meath has approx 50% greater population than Mayo, huge geographical advantages, a recent? history of All -Ireland wins, a leading collehe in St Pats Navan yet neither county or club teams are challenging. Some hard looking at internal workings of these counties should be the first order of business.
Louth is soccer country.
Meath is in remedial class. Many of the footballers should be in a home for the bewildered.
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Orchard park

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #103 on: October 27, 2017, 03:21:38 PM »
If Mayo won the final this year would people be complaining?

Yes.

Trying to say a one-off match changes anything about financial or demographic realities is genuinely crazy, Farr.



why then arent Dublin dominating hurling ??????????

Syferus

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Re: the future of the Intercounty game
« Reply #104 on: October 27, 2017, 03:50:30 PM »
If Mayo won the final this year would people be complaining?

Yes.

Trying to say a one-off match changes anything about financial or demographic realities is genuinely crazy, Farr.



why then arent Dublin dominating hurling ??????????

Re: last five times someone had the patience to explain to you why you chose a terrible gotcha with the hurlers, and they actually prove the point you're trying to refute but you chose to ignore it.

Not going to respond to it again in the future.