the future of the Intercounty game

[Zulu]

I'm pointing out facts of population imbalances.
These imbalances are going to get worse as pointed out by Lar.
Getting all emotional abot Louthmen and attacking me for something I never said isn't the way forward.
The title of the thread is the future of the Inter County game which at present and for the forseeable future is being totally distorted as a result of Dublin GAA getting its act together with the aid of HQ.
I don't know the best way to address that and any suggestions people throw out are dismissed out of hand.
As I said  before
We can't split Dublin
We can't pull money from them
We can't amalgamate teams
We can't have graded Inter County Championships
We just carry on.

I'm not attacking you Rossfan and I'm open to both redistributing GAA money given to Dublin or a graded system and many other suggestions too. We all accept the population trends are problematic and we will have to address it but splits and amalgamations are totally unrealistic. You may as well propose a solution that involves aliens as to propose that.

I actually come at this from a player's POV insofar as I want to see a season where players get plenty of games with a reasonable number of them against opponents they can compete with. I'm not interested in coming up with a format that helps Roscommon or Longford win All Irelands just that if they have a team that can they have a fair shot at doing it.   

[Rossfan]

I'm afraid the population imbalances are going to worsen in a shorter timeframe than I or Lar thought.
An ESRI report on the Health Service estimates a 1m increase in the 26 Co population by 2030 - 12 years and 3 months away.
12 years and 3 months ago was July 2005 .....
Most of that 1m will be within 30/40 miles of O'Connell Bridge in the 5 Counties that already have  population of 2.1m.
So how does the GAA make representative football more competitive so that 20 odd Counties aren't permanently excluded from the closing stages?
Why do the Emlyn Mulligans or Mickey Quinns play their entire IC careers and only about 10,000 people at most will ever see them play?

[Syferus]

Zulu, you're not interested in much more than protectionism for Dublin. Everyone knows it by now.

[Zulu]

Zulu, you're not interested in much more than protectionism for Dublin. Everyone knows it by now.

Back to bed now child.

[Zulu]

I'm afraid the population imbalances are going to worsen in a shorter timeframe than I or Lar thought.
An ESRI report on the Health Service estimates a 1m increase in the 26 Co population by 2030 - 12 years and 3 months away.
12 years and 3 months ago was July 2005 .....
Most of that 1m will be within 30/40 miles of O'Connell Bridge in the 5 Counties that already have  population of 2.1m.
So how does the GAA make representative football more competitive so that 20 odd Counties aren't permanently excluded from the closing stages?
Why do the Emlyn Mulligans or Mickey Quinns play their entire IC careers and only about 10,000 people at most will ever see them play?

It's a massive challenge but as I said, counties with big populations should be able to produce 15-20 very good footballers if they have good structures. Dublin are proof that population doesn't matter if the structures are not there to utilise those numbers.

Clearly there are serious issues for the likes of Roscommon, Longford etc. but it isn't as simple as saying join them together. I'd suggest we look at the funding available for smaller counties and competition structures first. Look at Tipperary who went from being a weak to average team into a very competitive team by good work at underage. AZ is involved there I think so could tell us more but the bottom line is many counties can and should be doing better and if money is the issue then lets address that first.

[Syferus]

I'm afraid the population imbalances are going to worsen in a shorter timeframe than I or Lar thought.
An ESRI report on the Health Service estimates a 1m increase in the 26 Co population by 2030 - 12 years and 3 months away.
12 years and 3 months ago was July 2005 .....
Most of that 1m will be within 30/40 miles of O'Connell Bridge in the 5 Counties that already have  population of 2.1m.
So how does the GAA make representative football more competitive so that 20 odd Counties aren't permanently excluded from the closing stages?
Why do the Emlyn Mulligans or Mickey Quinns play their entire IC careers and only about 10,000 people at most will ever see them play?

It's a massive challenge but as I said, counties with big populations should be able to produce 15-20 very good footballers if they have good structures. Dublin are proof that population doesn't matter if the structures are not there to utilise those numbers.

Clearly there are serious issues for the likes of Roscommon, Longford etc. but it isn't as simple as saying join them together. I'd suggest we look at the funding available for smaller counties and competition structures first. Look at Tipperary who went from being a weak to average team into a very competitive team by good work at underage. AZ is involved there I think so could tell us more but the bottom line is many counties can and should be doing better and if money is the issue then lets address that first.

Even before they were winning every AI they were humiliating the rest of their province without breaking much of a sweat. I can't recall a time Dublin haven't been in the mix for the last four or weren't one of the contenders for the AI.

[Orchard park]

Why aren't Dublin dominating hurling then if the argumrnts on finance and  gpos sre to hold water

[Zulu]

Dublin, like Kerry and a few others are usually there or thereabouts but they only won 2 All Irelands between 1978 and 2010. In the same period Kerry won 13, Galway and Down 2, Cork 3, Meath 4 so clearly their population didn't make them all-powerful. On top of that they've only been in two more semi finals than Mayo and nine more than Galway who, I think, haven't been in one since 2001.

Again, nobody is denying there are issues but the solutions need to be (somewhat) realistic and worthwhile. Splitting counties and merging others is totally unrealistic in our lifetimes and would create as many problems as it would solve. Merged teams could easily fold as there would be no inherent attachment to the team.

[caprea]

Why aren't Dublin dominating hurling then if the argumrnts on finance and  gpos sre to hold water

Dublin have won 6 under 21 Leinster since their first in 1967. Half of those have been this decade. So that argument actually backfires.

[Syferus]

Why aren't Dublin dominating hurling then if the argumrnts on finance and  gpos sre to hold water

Dublin have won 6 under 21 Leinster since their first in 1967. Half of those have been this decade. So that argument actually backfires.

Which is why I don't understand why Orchard keeps bringing it up - he's been told it a few times now.

[Rossfan]

Why aren't Dublin dominating hurling then if the argumrnts on finance and  gpos sre to hold water

Dublin have won 6 under 21 Leinster since their first in 1967. Half of those have been this decade. So that argument actually backfires.

Agreed. Plus they've been much improved at minor,  and at Senior won the NHL and a Leinster  and came within a whisper of making the 2013 AI Final.
Of the 39,000 registered players in Dublin would 20% of them be hurling orientated or is that too highn?

[Captain Obvious]

I would say GAA football have changed the rules of its game and structures,formats of it fixtures more often than any team sport over the last few decades and more and more change is still demanded.

There is more to a championship than just becoming the number 1 side and if Dublin are to win the next 5 All Irelands fair play to them but i think that would say as much about the lack of competition they will face as even the great Kerry sides were beaten occasionally. Every county has different objectives such as reaching the last 8 or provincial final and those targets are more appealing to their players and supporters than some 2nd tier competition would be.

The vast majority of counties know they won't be challenging for the All Ireland anytime soon but a win against the odds especially against a neighbours can leave lasting memories, For me the highlight of any cup competition in any sport is the underdog story and i fear the introduced of super 8 with now likely kill counties such as Wexford,Fermanagh,Tipperary from reaching the last 4 again.

[Syferus]

I would say GAA football have changed the rules of its game and structures,formats of it fixtures more often than any team sport over the last few decades and more and more change is still demanded.

There is more to a championship football than just becoming the number 1 side and if Dublin are to win the next 5 All Irelands fair play to them but i think that would say as much about the lack of competition they will face as even the great Kerry sides were beaten occasionally. Every county has different objectives such as reaching the last 8 or provincial final and those targets are more appealing to their players and supporters than some 2nd tier competition would be.

The vast majority of counties know they won't be challenging for the All Ireland anytime soon but a win against the odds especially against a neighbours can leave lasting memories, For me the highlight of any cup competition in any sport is the underdog story and i fear the introduced of super 8 with now likely kill counties such as Wexford,Fermanagh,Tipperary from reaching the last 4 again.

To say it would be because of lack of competition from others would be to ignore the obvious advantages Dublin enjoy, and have been copper-fastened by HQ's willingness to grant far too much money to them for games development. There's no lack of will to compete in many of the D1/2 counties but more and more they're realising they're playing in a rigged system where insane demands are placed on them to try to keep pace with a county with the size and influence of a province.

The situation we have is not sustainable and the hokey attempt by Duffy to paper over the declining interest in the sport on his way out with the Super 8 is the biggest admission of that fact.

[Lar Naparka]

Dublin, like Kerry and a few others are usually there or thereabouts but they only won 2 All Irelands between 1978 and 2010. In the same period Kerry won 13, Galway and Down 2, Cork 3, Meath 4 so clearly their population didn't make them all-powerful. On top of that they've only been in two more semi finals than Mayo and nine more than Galway who, I think, haven't been in one since 2001.

Again, nobody is denying there are issues but the solutions need to be (somewhat) realistic and worthwhile. Splitting counties and merging others is totally unrealistic in our lifetimes and would create as many problems as it would solve. Merged teams could easily fold as there would be no inherent attachment to the team.

Of course it didn't, the size of the population per se means little. If there are really 8 millions bicycles in Beijing, how come a Chinese never won the Tour de France?
There are serious advantages in having a huge population but only if they are properly exploited and Dublin is taking full advantage of those benefits. The Dublin GAA community can't be faulted for that as any other county, faced by the same circumstances, would do the same but that's just a hypothetical issue; the reality is that the gap in resources between Dublin and every other county in the land is widening all the time.
What good will it do for Gaelic football if when the AI series becomes as irrelevant as the Leinster championship?

[From the Bunker]

There is no real way back! You take money away from Dublin now and there would be consternation. They are used to having it now and their system depends on it. There is not enough to go around to other counties to even things up with Dublin. It is what it is! Super 8 gives Dublin two chances to mess up and still win an All Ireland. I read talk here about how far Tipperary have gone! How far have they really gone. Would they get within 9 points of Dublin? Can anyone see them winning a Munster title?