America`s Gun Culture

[The Iceman]

Still in shock about it all this morning. I was down through the area a few months back on a family road trip. I've thought a lot about the conviction of those who were shot and if I would be so bold and brave when asked if I was Christian knowing that a yes would mean execution. I pray for their strength.

Something needs to be done in this country. I think we're passed the point of no return though. There are just too many guns out there and too much access to them. Would a ban or an amnesty even make a difference?

We won't stay too many more years at this rate.

Why the hell would anyone answer in the affirmative that they were Christian after seeing this psychopath mow down others?

Conviction me arse. Do what you have to to live and get back to your family and f**k that deranged judge and executioner.  Any concept of god that would supposedly hold that against someone is fucked up.

You're hard on me now J70. Is thee anything you would go to war for? Any cause bigger than yourself or your own life?

[LeoMc]

This is how the police treated those who survived the shooting:

Are you criticising how they handled this?
In the immediate aftermath they cannot be sure if it was a lone gunman or if he had an accomplice. If it later emerged that they had let the primary shooter out without securing the area they would be criticised.

"We arrived to find multiple patients in multiple classrooms. Law enforcement was on scene and had the shooter neutralized," said Douglas County Fire Marshal Ray Shoufler.

They don't line people up in the car park, where a shooter could pick them off, while the shooting is still going on. The shooting was long over when the photos were taken. Also, if the argument for legalising guns, is that everyone should have a gun to save them from bad men, what exactly are the police searching for?

I was not talking of a shooter lined up with a rifle, they are likely to be spotted. I was thinking more of a Dylan Klebold who decided suicide was not the way out and was trying to blend in and escape.

[muppet]

I understand your point Leo, but if someone in the middle of one of those lines had a serious weapon on them, I dare say they would be more likely to try to use it than wait for the cops to find it. Those cops aren't even looking, so he would have a little time to pull it out.

Thus I suggest they are putting people at risk by their actions.

In addition, those poeple are very likely to be very highly stressed and a lethal misunderstanding could happen in an instant. Imagine someone with a low IQ doing something unwise in one of those lines?

IMHO the priority should be to safegaurd the innocent, not to find the guilty.

[omaghjoe]

Policing seems to be yet another subject area you are an expert in knowing feck all about Muppet

[stew]

I understand your point Leo, but if someone in the middle of one of those lines had a serious weapon on them, I dare say they would be more likely to try to use it than wait for the cops to find it. Those cops aren't even looking, so he would have a little time to pull it out.

Thus I suggest they are putting people at risk by their actions.

In addition, those poeple are very likely to be very highly stressed and a lethal misunderstanding could happen in an instant. Imagine someone with a low IQ doing something unwise in one of those lines?

IMHO the priority should be to safegaurd the innocent, not to find the guilty.

Muppet, this is the way they have to handle things in cases like this, if you didnt they would have the shooters walking out with the escaping students, you cannot blame the peelers in any way on this!

[muppet]

I understand your point Leo, but if someone in the middle of one of those lines had a serious weapon on them, I dare say they would be more likely to try to use it than wait for the cops to find it. Those cops aren't even looking, so he would have a little time to pull it out.

Thus I suggest they are putting people at risk by their actions.

In addition, those poeple are very likely to be very highly stressed and a lethal misunderstanding could happen in an instant. Imagine someone with a low IQ doing something unwise in one of those lines?

IMHO the priority should be to safegaurd the innocent, not to find the guilty.

Muppet, this is the way they have to handle things in cases like this, if you didnt they would have the shooters walking out with the escaping students, you cannot blame the peelers in any way on this!

I am not blaming the peelers. They are just following orders. It is the logic behind the orders I have the problem with.

You said 'if you didnt they would have the shooters walking out with the escaping students'. I can understand this, but this is an argument to catch any potential accomplice, as the priority, even if it risks more deaths. That is what I have the problem with. Let them all escape safely and then track the scumbags down like they almost always do, e.g. Boston.

[gallsman]

Policing seems to be yet another subject area you are an expert in knowing feck all about Muppet

You're a veritable bastion of knowledge yourself. We all eagerly await your response to easytiger on the other thread.

[muppet]

I don't follow your logic at all, muppet.

Surely it's better to have any suspect confined to the small space rather than letting them have a run up the local neighbourhood?

1) But there wasn't a suspect.

2) If there was, they were forcing his hand possibly leading to more loss of life.

3) Any terrified innocent person could have made a mistake that would lead a cop panicking and to one of those other tragedies we so often talk about on here.

[Franko]

I don't follow your logic at all, muppet.

Surely it's better to have any suspect confined to the small space rather than letting them have a run up the local neighbourhood?

1) But there wasn't a suspect.

2) If there was, they were forcing his hand possibly leading to more loss of life.

3) Any terrified innocent person could have made a mistake that would lead a cop panicking and to one of those other tragedies we so often talk about on here.

1. I'd assume they didn't know how many shooters there were at the time. They only knew they'd killed one.

2. As opposed to the loss of life if they'd let him go free to repeat his deeds?

3. Correct, hence they make them stand in a line with their hands above their heads and not run amok where they could startle a trigger happy copper.

[omaghjoe]

Policing seems to be yet another subject area you are an expert in knowing feck all about Muppet

You're a veritable bastion of knowledge yourself. We all eagerly await your response to easytiger on the other thread.

I'll let this one back out to swim, doesnt seem right

[Denn Forever]

3. Correct, hence they make them stand in a line with their hands above their heads and not run amok where they could startle a trigger happy copper.

This has to be the saddest thing really.

[Franko]

3. Correct, hence they make them stand in a line with their hands above their heads and not run amok where they could startle a trigger happy copper.

This has to be the saddest thing really.

Sadder than the 9 students who died?  Think you're over-egging it a little.  I'm no fan of the cops in America but in that situation, where there may or not be a guy with a gun running around shooting people indiscriminately, I might be inclined to keep my hand on the holster too.

[muppet]

3. Correct, hence they make them stand in a line with their hands above their heads and not run amok where they could startle a trigger happy copper.

This has to be the saddest thing really.

Sadder than the 9 students who died?  Think you're over-egging it a little.  I'm no fan of the cops in America but in that situation, where there may or not be a guy with a gun running around shooting people indiscriminately, I might be inclined to keep my hand on the holster too.

Look at the photo. None of them have their hands on the holster. None of them seem remotely concerned that anyone in front of them is a mass-killer about to open fire.

It is all for show. And what it shows is how highly they value innocent citizens who have just been through a massively traumatic event and may be relatives or friends of the deceased.

Could you imagine, after the Omagh bomb, if the Brits rounded up everyone within a 1 mile radius of the bomb and had them put their hands over their heads until they had all been searched? Would you consider that appropriate policing?

[stew]

3. Correct, hence they make them stand in a line with their hands above their heads and not run amok where they could startle a trigger happy copper.

This has to be the saddest thing really.

Sadder than the 9 students who died?  Think you're over-egging it a little.  I'm no fan of the cops in America but in that situation, where there may or not be a guy with a gun running around shooting people indiscriminately, I might be inclined to keep my hand on the holster too.

Look at the photo. None of them have their hands on the holster. None of them seem remotely concerned that anyone in front of them is a mass-killer about to open fire.

It is all for show. And what it shows is how highly they value innocent citizens who have just been through a massively traumatic event and may be relatives or friends of the deceased.

Could you imagine, after the Omagh bomb, if the Brits rounded up everyone within a 1 mile radius of the bomb and had them put their hands over their heads until they had all been searched? Would you consider that appropriate policing?

Apples and oranges, several things wrong with your analogy, no bombs were involved, second of all, The USA has a different way of handling cases than the Irish do and thirdly, you are only seeing a snapshot on the pictures, do you really think there were no sharpshooters covering the polices backs? That is not the way they do things here.

You are stretching and trying to be offended it seems! The cops were just doing their jobs the way they have been trained to do their jobs, end of.

[muppet]

3. Correct, hence they make them stand in a line with their hands above their heads and not run amok where they could startle a trigger happy copper.

This has to be the saddest thing really.

Sadder than the 9 students who died?  Think you're over-egging it a little.  I'm no fan of the cops in America but in that situation, where there may or not be a guy with a gun running around shooting people indiscriminately, I might be inclined to keep my hand on the holster too.

Look at the photo. None of them have their hands on the holster. None of them seem remotely concerned that anyone in front of them is a mass-killer about to open fire.

It is all for show. And what it shows is how highly they value innocent citizens who have just been through a massively traumatic event and may be relatives or friends of the deceased.

Could you imagine, after the Omagh bomb, if the Brits rounded up everyone within a 1 mile radius of the bomb and had them put their hands over their heads until they had all been searched? Would you consider that appropriate policing?

Apples and oranges, several things wrong with your analogy, no bombs were involved, second of all, The USA has a different way of handling cases than the Irish do and thirdly, you are only seeing a snapshot on the pictures, do you really think there were no sharpshooters covering the polices backs? That is not the way they do things here.

You are stretching and trying to be offended it seems! The cops were just doing their jobs the way they have been trained to do their jobs, end of.

Em..........

Never mind.

Bomb different to guns?

Same result, but never mind that either.

Treating the survivors like criminals?

Never mind that either.

Although in fairness I accept your point on the snapshot.