Dubs v Westmeath 25 June

[Owenmoresider]

nobody was getting the funding in the 70s that they are now
Kerry were just better footballers than everyone

Exactly as Dublin are now. But we all know there is very little between Dublin, Kerry and Mayo (assuming the latter get their house back in order) - and Tyrone would have no fear of Dublin either.

Dublin's senior footballers get looked after no better than the other top counties.

Absolutely true that only the Leinster final should be in Croke Park - but Dublin only have a 1/12th vote in that. The other Leinster counties could implement keeping Dubs out of Croker for Leinster semis very easily and choose not to.

Population of course plays a part, especially the last 20 years where there has been an ever increasing drive of culchies into the Pale. Young Con's father and grandfather both great Westmeath GAA men apparently.

You're bang on about population anyway Hound. While that is a political factor, there's no point discussing that here.

So even if Dublin's funding was cut/spread evenly or whatever would it make a difference? Dublin fans might argue that they are the reason the GAA get so much money because so many follow them. But the population will always be there so they will always get bumper crowds, even if Kilkenny entered a team next year and were drawn to play them.

So what to do? I'm against splitting or amalgamating counties  anyway. Should funding be capped, absolutely, yet the population will ensure they will get more money anyway. Should the funds be spread evenly? I would argue that they should but surely to God the likes of Westmeath who got such a hiding yesterday should be shouting from the heavens to get that. I mean it's all right discussing it on gaaboard, but why don't the other counties highlight it at congress, Central council or somewhere their voices can actually be heard?

PS, did anyone look for their money back yesterday? Total mismatch from the word go it seems. I thought Kildare might run Dublin close. Unfortunately for Dinny and co I can't see that happening at all.

33k yesterday in their own backyard is hardly a "bumper" crowd.

[Fuzzman]

I brought my eldest lad into it as the other two who sometimes come with me said it would be boring and didn't wanna come.

I thought Westmeath would have put up a bit more of a fight but alas I came away with the same feeling I have every year now. As I've posted before, I kinda feel sorry for the real Dublin fans who pay in game after game to watch that nonsense and have to wait until they get to an AI semi or final for any real excitement.
What normally happens is the fans watch the first half, go to the bar at half time and often don't return, at least in the premium section.
I remember being at games ages ago where you had butterflies in your stomach and your whole day revolved around the game.

As Brolly pointed out before, you get people now chatting and having full conversations rather than watch the match with any anticipation. It's just a snorefest with neither team really wanting to be there, yet 33 thousand people paid to watch it and Dublin were far from full strength.

The underage structure in Dublin is amazing and will ensure they continue to produce the best players for years to come. Leinster would be so much more interesting if Dublin were not to play in it.

[Zulu]

Complete nonsense. All you post recently when it comes to Dublin is their funding when any rational person would acknowledge that there's more to their dominance than that. Please show me your posts bemoaning the financial, and more, advantages Mayo enjoy over Leitrim and others? The GAA has never been a fair fight so why all the moaning now from people whose counties have enjoyed massive advantages for 100 years or more?

Mayo is roughly comparable in size to the likes of Kerry, Donegal and has always had a populous competitor in their own province. Leitrim is an outlier on the smaller side, it is they themselves that suffer from this. Having Dublin with the population of a province is ridiculous and you know perfectly well it is ridiculous yet you keep coming on here defending it like a DUP spokesman defending the Plantation of Ulster.

Leitrim isn't the only example, what about Carlow, Longford, Cavan, Monaghan, or the hurling counties in Munster? Many counties have significantly smaller population and financial support than the likes of Mayo or Kerry so what makes Dublin unique?

As I said, if a smaller county is happy to play then any disadvantage comes on themselves, not those they play. The population of  Mayo is twice that of Monaghan, the population of Dublin is 10 times Mayo. Competitive games will still happen with a two or threefold difference, not with a 10 fold one. The hurling counties of Munster have a big population, if hurling is more popular then that is not the same thing at all.

Ok, so if Mayo have a population 5 times that of Leitrim it's ok as Leitrim are happy to tog and if some counties prefer hurling that's ok but it's not ok if Dublin have 10 times the population of Mayo? Antrim, Cork and Down have 15 times the population of Leitrim or Longford is that a problem?

ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE WAY DUBLIN GAA ARE GETTING THE EXTRA ADVANTAGES? SIMPLE YES OR NO?

I know you don't attend matches, you live in the UK! Spend no money on going/travelling to GAA matches!

What extra advantages are you talking about? If it's funding, I've made it quite clear that if you are talking about a more even distribution of GAA funding then great. If you're talking about media targeting I couldn't care less and if you're talking about splitting Dublin then I disagree.

[Zulu]

Today was a huge mismatch but that shouldn't take from yet another sublime display of Gaelic football by this Dublin team. However, I expect that the manner of Dublin's win will not faze Kildare as it will shift the focus away from Kildare and onto Dublin and that is surely what Kildare would want.

I think there might be a great Leinster final in prospect.

Why have Kildare won the lotto and not told anyone?  Today the divide between the have and the have nots was evident. Until all counties are funded with equal resources the dubs will not be beat in Leinster and possibly  in Ireland. It's a disgrace lads.

Do dublin hurlers not get the same funding? Where is their total domination? It isn't down to funding, the dubs simply have a great group of players.

You just keep the blinkers on! You'll be all the more happier with your teams success that way. Acknowledging money being involved in your success can take the gleam off of things.

Dublin aren't as dominant as kerry were in the 70s and I didn't hear anyone say then it was all to do with money. Kerry simply got credit for being a good team. Dublin hurlers are getting the same funding and looked like they were improving significantly but now look like they have gone backwards a good bit. The fundings still the same so results aren't directly related to funding. The dubs simply have a superb group of players and a great manager, let's just enjoy them and give them credit. Having said that it wouldn't surprise me at all if kerry, mayo or tyrone beat them this year, they are nowhere near unbeatable.

nobody was getting the funding in the 70s that they are now
Kerry were just better footballers than everyone

Not entirely true. It wasn't like now but some counties have had more funding and support then others for many years.

[Zulu]

Would pumping the entire GNP of a small African country into the likes of us, Leitrim etc make any difference.

Nope.

I blame the Brits........if you want to balance things off forget the county boundaries for the summer competition and create 16 'counties' or, God forbid 'franchises' and run a Super competition of 4*4 groups. Balance the number of senior clubs as close as possible withing each 'county'.

Go back to the 32 counties for the winter leagues and scrap the now almost meaningless provincials (bar Ulster and they can run this as they see fit).

*runs out of room*

Of course it would SS. It wouldn't turn ye into Dublin because of the other factors around population, but I guarantee you it would make ye more competitive if you had a scatter of full time coaches roaming the county, maximising the talent and resources ye do have. That's the issue, there's only one county getting the most out of it's resources, and it's the county that has most resources in the first place

Again, I'm conscious that this is seen as some sort of Dublin bashing. It's genuinely not. They are a model in how to spend big money when you have it. But it's hard to spend it when you don't have it. And in counties that have a certain amount, they are spending it on the senior set ups to try hang onto the coattails of the the Dubs.

I agree with this and a more even distribution of funding is only right but I don't think it should be at the expense of Dublin, at least not initially. Target counties like Meath and Kildare and help close the gap which will increase income which in turn increases the funds to help other counties.

For me it's simple, the GAA should be trying to get as many people as possible playing GAA and helping counties afford this. We don't split or amalgamate counties, we do change structures so counties like Longford or Leitrim have a genuine season and we don't weaken Dublin but we do strengthen others by increased funding.

[From the Bunker]

Would pumping the entire GNP of a small African country into the likes of us, Leitrim etc make any difference.

Nope.

I blame the Brits........if you want to balance things off forget the county boundaries for the summer competition and create 16 'counties' or, God forbid 'franchises' and run a Super competition of 4*4 groups. Balance the number of senior clubs as close as possible withing each 'county'.

Go back to the 32 counties for the winter leagues and scrap the now almost meaningless provincials (bar Ulster and they can run this as they see fit).

*runs out of room*

Of course it would SS. It wouldn't turn ye into Dublin because of the other factors around population, but I guarantee you it would make ye more competitive if you had a scatter of full time coaches roaming the county, maximising the talent and resources ye do have. That's the issue, there's only one county getting the most out of it's resources, and it's the county that has most resources in the first place

Again, I'm conscious that this is seen as some sort of Dublin bashing. It's genuinely not. They are a model in how to spend big money when you have it. But it's hard to spend it when you don't have it. And in counties that have a certain amount, they are spending it on the senior set ups to try hang onto the coattails of the the Dubs.

I agree with this and a more even distribution of funding is only right but I don't think it should be at the expense of Dublin, at least not initially. Target counties like Meath and Kildare and help close the gap which will increase income which in turn increases the funds to help other counties.

For me it's simple, the GAA should be trying to get as many people as possible playing GAA and helping counties afford this. We don't split or amalgamate counties, we do change structures so counties like Longford or Leitrim have a genuine season and we don't weaken Dublin but we do strengthen others by increased funding.

But an even distribution of money would have to come at Dublins expense. When you have only so much money means taking from one and giving to another is the only way to create equality.

Choosing two like Meath and Kildare is wrong also as you are just creating another Dublin situation.

Lastly the creation of new structures such as the Super 8 of which you are an advocate does not help Leitrim or Longford.

Zulu you are one of those fans that are getting bored with the super power boring games that Dublin currently play in! You support Dublin and want them to win and win and win as any passionate fan would. You are currently enjoying this period of dominance. The Planets have aligned perfectly. Home games, big home support, great football. The only problem is the Leinster Championship is a dead duck when it involves any games with ye. Westmeath and Offaly is a vibrant game. Kildare and Meath is a vibrant game. Teams like Mayo, Donegal and to a lesser extent Kerry are falling away. Fans of Mayo and Donegal who carried a huge loyal following are seeing or will see their following fall back to the chasing pack just like their football teams. Tyrone are being built as possible contenders. But I'm not convinced.

The GAA have destroyed the Leinster Championship since the mid-90's when it was a excellent competition and any one of 6+ could win it.

I don't see any hope. The games between the lesser lights will still be competitive and attract a crowd. Dublin will see less and less fans travelling to see them away. And after a while the Dubs will get bored of watching games like yesterday and Croker with no away fans and they'll stop going to.

[AZOffaly]

In fairness to Zulu, he is not a Dub.

[armaghniac]

There is a lot of talk about funding here. It is absolutely in the GAA interest that every youth in every part of Dublin get coaching in Gaelic games and if that leads to a lot of talented players than so much the better, so Dublin will always get a lot of funding although some of the newer districts in Kildare and Meath need funding too and the same in urban areas in other parts of the country.

But this funding must not be allowed distort national competitions, either because of super clubs emerging or because of a county team with the population of a province.

[AZOffaly]

Centrally controlled and granted funding should be fair and equitable across the board. Do it on a per player basis, or a per club basis, whatever. You cannot have disproportionate coaching funding simply because you want one team to do well. Tipperary has 4 GDAs and 1 Coaching and Games manager. That works out at 1 per division (North, West, Mid, South). Those GDAs are expected to cover hurling and football. Tipperary receives approx 40k per annum for coaching and games development. Wouldn't it be brilliant if Tipperary could have 8 football GDAs and 8 hurling GDAs, 2 each per division. That would quadruple face time for coaches and kids in Tipp, as well as giving them dedicated coaches in each code. In order to finance that, you'd need a couple of hundred grand a year. There are over 70 clubs in Tipperary. The GDAs we have are paid out of Munster funds, but the 40K covers all coaching and games development, including Development squads in hurling and football. It's a pittance.

[Zulu]

In fairness to Zulu, he is not a Dub.

Ah but AZ I don't bash the Dubs at every opportunity so despite telling the likes of FtB numerous times I'm not a Dub I must be as I'm not always criticising them. Ironically, Mayo have never played Dublin when I haven't been roaring on Mayo, does that make me a Mayo man I wonder?

FtB, if you think taking money from Dublin and distributing it to the other 31 counties will improve anything then I don't know what to say to you. Money can be diverted from other areas, government funding applied for and Dublin county board can fund a greater portion of it's coaching to generate money for other counties. But you have to pick certain counties as giving it to all will only dilute the impact everywhere. You won't make Meath into Dublin by giving them more money but getting them more competitive will increase the revenue we have to then help Offaly, Louth, Cavan etc.

[Tubberman]

In fairness to Zulu, he is not a Dub.

Ah but AZ I don't bash the Dubs at every opportunity so despite telling the likes of FtB numerous times I'm not a Dub I must be as I'm not always criticising them. Ironically, Mayo have never played Dublin when I haven't been roaring on Mayo, does that make me a Mayo man I wonder?

FtB, if you think taking money from Dublin and distributing it to the other 31 counties will improve anything then I don't know what to say to you. Money can be diverted from other areas, government funding applied for and Dublin county board can fund a greater portion of it's coaching to generate money for other counties. But you have to pick certain counties as giving it to all will only dilute the impact everywhere. You won't make Meath into Dublin by giving them more money but getting them more competitive will increase the revenue we have to then help Offaly, Louth, Cavan etc.

I don't follow that logic at all! How would giving all counties the same (or at least proportionate) funding dilute it's impact!?
Each county would have the money to provide the resources required to prepare teams to the same standard as the top teams.
Take Longford for example - they may not have the same number of players to pick from, or the same natural ability and that's fine, but they would at least be able to provide those players with the same preparation as a Dublin player.
And I don't follow how having a competitive Meath will provide resources for Offaly - that's bullshit frankly. It will give more competition, better games, and a small amount of extra revenue, certainly not enough.

I think it's time that all sponsorship money was pooled and allocated proportionately (the formula for that would be another debate!) amongst the counties. The comparison between Leitrim being sponsored by the local man who owns a hotel on Main St, and Dublin being sponsored by a multi-billion global insurance corporation is stark.
Leitrim will never have the pick of Dublin and there's nothing that can be done about that - but the Leitrim players should have the same level of support structures and preparation as every other county, Dublin included.

[AZOffaly]

Pooling sponsorship money and the like sounds good, but in practice I'd imagine there'd be massive issues with hiding money etc. I'm not sure the GAA can control that.

However what they could do right now, in the morning, is say that from GAA controlled funds, we will give every county exactly the same funding on a per player or per club basis. Dublin will still get more, but it will not be disproportionately more. Maybe they'll have to have a few less coaches, but maybe the other counties will be able to have a few more.

[Tubberman]

Yeah, I could see the potential loopholes with sponsorship money 'hidden' or not given in money, but rather services/resources which obviously can't be pooled.
But I think without that, then Dublin will always have a funding advantage. If you give every county X amount, Dublin will have X + AIG, while Leitrim will have X + Bush Hotel.
That may be unavoidable to an extent, so it would really come down to how much the central GAA funding pot is, and how it would be distributed.

[From the Bunker]

In fairness to Zulu, he is not a Dub.

Ah but AZ I don't bash the Dubs at every opportunity so despite telling the likes of FtB numerous times I'm not a Dub I must be as I'm not always criticising them. Ironically, Mayo have never played Dublin when I haven't been roaring on Mayo, does that make me a Mayo man I wonder?

FtB, if you think taking money from Dublin and distributing it to the other 31 counties will improve anything then I don't know what to say to you. Money can be diverted from other areas, government funding applied for and Dublin county board can fund a greater portion of it's coaching to generate money for other counties. But you have to pick certain counties as giving it to all will only dilute the impact everywhere. You won't make Meath into Dublin by giving them more money but getting them more competitive will increase the revenue we have to then help Offaly, Louth, Cavan etc.

Your use of Litotes there has completely confused what is meant by that statement!

[mayoaremagic]

I was surprised with Gavin's retort to the media yesterday. (In fact I thought Dublin actually looked a better team without Connolly.) In times gone by Gavin would have ignored the thing completely, I believe. It reminded me of the Liverpool - Luis Saurez debacle, and that was something I didn't expect as he is usually a lot cooler.

With rumors circulating about discontent in the Dublin management setup, you have to wonder what is going on, and is he facing maybe the first real bit of trouble of his tenure?