Munster Club Championships 2016

[ashman]

What is required here is someone to do an analysis of the total number of clubs in each county broken down by senior, inter and junior .  Then we will see if there is "structural doping" .

[twohands!!!]

Such rubbish!

Every county board is entitled to set up their own championships in whatever format they like.

If a county thinks that by putting less clubs in the senior club championship that they will win more intermediate and junior club all irelands then there is nothing to stop them from doing it!

In addition, the kerry county championship has had divisional sides in it long before the all ireland club series for intermediate and junior teams was introduced. It's not as if Kerry saw the inter and junior all ireland championships introduced and thought how can we restructure our championships to win more of these!

I completely agree that the Kerry system improves that standard of players in kerry because EVERY player in the county gets an opportunity to play senior club championship.
BUT, I believe MORE counties should adopt this format!
Shouldn't the objective in every club/county be to get players playing at as high a level as possible to improve the standard as much as possible?

It's very hard to argue that the Kerry club/divisional setup isn't very successful in terms of contributing to intercounty and club success.

Why more counties don't adopt similar structures utterly baffles me.

[shark]

Such rubbish!

Every county board is entitled to set up their own championships in whatever format they like.

If a county thinks that by putting less clubs in the senior club championship that they will win more intermediate and junior club all irelands then there is nothing to stop them from doing it!

In addition, the kerry county championship has had divisional sides in it long before the all ireland club series for intermediate and junior teams was introduced. It's not as if Kerry saw the inter and junior all ireland championships introduced and thought how can we restructure our championships to win more of these!

I completely agree that the Kerry system improves that standard of players in kerry because EVERY player in the county gets an opportunity to play senior club championship.
BUT, I believe MORE counties should adopt this format!
Shouldn't the objective in every club/county be to get players playing at as high a level as possible to improve the standard as much as possible?

It's very hard to argue that the Kerry club/divisional setup isn't very successful in terms of contributing to intercounty and club success.

Why more counties don't adopt similar structures utterly baffles me.

It's hard enough to get championships ran off as it is. You wouldn't be able to run intermediate championship games on the same weekend as senior ones. And then think of counties with duel considerations.

[twohands!!!]

Such rubbish!

Every county board is entitled to set up their own championships in whatever format they like.

If a county thinks that by putting less clubs in the senior club championship that they will win more intermediate and junior club all irelands then there is nothing to stop them from doing it!

In addition, the kerry county championship has had divisional sides in it long before the all ireland club series for intermediate and junior teams was introduced. It's not as if Kerry saw the inter and junior all ireland championships introduced and thought how can we restructure our championships to win more of these!

I completely agree that the Kerry system improves that standard of players in kerry because EVERY player in the county gets an opportunity to play senior club championship.
BUT, I believe MORE counties should adopt this format!
Shouldn't the objective in every club/county be to get players playing at as high a level as possible to improve the standard as much as possible?

It's very hard to argue that the Kerry club/divisional setup isn't very successful in terms of contributing to intercounty and club success.

Why more counties don't adopt similar structures utterly baffles me.

It's hard enough to get championships ran off as it is. You wouldn't be able to run intermediate championship games on the same weekend as senior ones. And then think of counties with duel considerations.

Kerry don't have a huge hurling constituency to deal with but that's true for a lot of other counties.

Also Kerry are generally involved in the championship well into August if not September but I'm struggling to think if they ever failed to provide representatives for Munster.

[shark]

Such rubbish!

Every county board is entitled to set up their own championships in whatever format they like.

If a county thinks that by putting less clubs in the senior club championship that they will win more intermediate and junior club all irelands then there is nothing to stop them from doing it!

In addition, the kerry county championship has had divisional sides in it long before the all ireland club series for intermediate and junior teams was introduced. It's not as if Kerry saw the inter and junior all ireland championships introduced and thought how can we restructure our championships to win more of these!

I completely agree that the Kerry system improves that standard of players in kerry because EVERY player in the county gets an opportunity to play senior club championship.
BUT, I believe MORE counties should adopt this format!
Shouldn't the objective in every club/county be to get players playing at as high a level as possible to improve the standard as much as possible?

It's very hard to argue that the Kerry club/divisional setup isn't very successful in terms of contributing to intercounty and club success.

Why more counties don't adopt similar structures utterly baffles me.

It's hard enough to get championships ran off as it is. You wouldn't be able to run intermediate championship games on the same weekend as senior ones. And then think of counties with duel considerations.

Kerry don't have a huge hurling constituency to deal with but that's true for a lot of other counties.

Also Kerry are generally involved in the championship well into August if not September but I'm struggling to think if they ever failed to provide representatives for Munster.

2015 they had a situation where Legion represented them against Nemo, having drawn the county final the previous weekend. They have their problems with the calendar too.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Structural doping....

As people (even a Cork poster ffs!) have said, there is nothing wrong with what we do in terms of championship structure. People can moan away about it, but the fact is there is a purpose and reasoning behind why the championship at every level is the way it is and it is NOT because we want clubs to win Inter/Junior All Irelands.
The Senior championship exists to be a feeding ground to the County panel mainly. Therefore a high standard in the premier club competition needs to be maintained in order for it to fulfill its purpose. There was a severe decline in standard in the Kerry Senior championship at the end of the 2000s and remedial action was needed. Thus last year the number of Senior club teams was reduced to 8, with 9 divisional teams. 2 divisional teams play a prelim game which leaved a 16 team championship.

If people wanted the truth and delved deeper behind this, they would find that the clubs beyond the top 8 who were winning Intermediate championships were clubs who weren't capable of sustaining a challenge at the top table. Clubs like Finuge (a dual club with Lixnaw hurling in reality), St Michaels/Foilmore (struggling badly for numbers like ALL of South Kerry), Ardfert (also a dual club), Currow (a tiny rural club) - these teams were going up Senior and getting hammered, which was doing nothing for them OR Kerry football.
The demise of some former giants of club football like Laune Rangers (now a Div 3 club), John Mitchels, An Gaeltacht (although they are improving again and Div 1 for 2017) - even formerly solid Senior clubs like Castleisland, Glenflesk..all has had an impact. I don't know if people realise, and this is not me straying into a general moan, but South Kerry - a massively important area for Kerry Football - is turning into an economic black hole. To illustrate, 4 formerly strong club sides (Skellig Rangers, Valentia, Sneem and Derrynane) now have to amalgamate to make an underage team. Valentia, i was told a few weeks ago, have 14 adult players registered for next year and are talking about not fielding. This is the club of Mick O'Connell we're talking about here.

Anyway, I'm straying off the main point slightly..if someone is telling me that Kenmare - who have risen from Division 3 to Division 1 (although back down to Div 2 in 2017) and who have gone from being a poor Junior club to being Intermediate champions of Kerry and Munster, a club who have NEVER been Senior in their history - if they have some unfair advantage here, I must be missing something!!

[Farrandeelin]

Must say I tend to agree with those who argue that Kerry can do whatever they want regarding their own championship. Gives the players in junior clubs the opportunity to shine and not get lost when graduating from minors and U21 etc.

[Ball Hopper]

Such rubbish!

Every county board is entitled to set up their own championships in whatever format they like.

If a county thinks that by putting less clubs in the senior club championship that they will win more intermediate and junior club all irelands then there is nothing to stop them from doing it!

In addition, the kerry county championship has had divisional sides in it long before the all ireland club series for intermediate and junior teams was introduced. It's not as if Kerry saw the inter and junior all ireland championships introduced and thought how can we restructure our championships to win more of these!

I completely agree that the Kerry system improves that standard of players in kerry because EVERY player in the county gets an opportunity to play senior club championship.
BUT, I believe MORE counties should adopt this format!
Shouldn't the objective in every club/county be to get players playing at as high a level as possible to improve the standard as much as possible?

It's very hard to argue that the Kerry club/divisional setup isn't very successful in terms of contributing to intercounty and club success.

Why more counties don't adopt similar structures utterly baffles me.

It's hard enough to get championships ran off as it is. You wouldn't be able to run intermediate championship games on the same weekend as senior ones. And then think of counties with duel considerations.

Kerry don't have a huge hurling constituency to deal with but that's true for a lot of other counties.

Also Kerry are generally involved in the championship well into August if not September but I'm struggling to think if they ever failed to provide representatives for Munster.

2015 they had a situation where Legion represented them against Nemo, having drawn the county final the previous weekend. They have their problems with the calendar too.

The scenario with Killarney Legion is covered by rule within the Kerry county board as I recall...they seem to plan for county success was what I got out of that situation.

If they are so successful though, would you not expect others to copy the Kerry method?  The fact that not many do seems to suggest that the Kerry way is not viewed as being any good.  Why is that?

[AZOffaly]

If it's not viewed as any good, then the people doing the viewing need to have a look at themselves. Cork do it as well though, with amalgamations, and the constituent clubs competing at lower levels. They're obviously corrupt too.

[twohands!!!]

If it's not viewed as any good, then the people doing the viewing need to have a look at themselves. Cork do it as well though, with amalgamations, and the constituent clubs competing at lower levels. They're obviously corrupt too.

Yeah it's like there's a clear blueprint of how to be successful and have a strong club scene and other county boards don't seem to want to know. In some counties I think there is a strong element of "we've always done it this way so we'll keep doing it this way" with regard to structures. Combine that with trying to get delegates to agree to changes, mean a lot of counties have sub-par structures.

Cork actually enter their 4th level of their footballers into the Munster junior competition for some reason - more crazy stuff.

[shark]

If it's not viewed as any good, then the people doing the viewing need to have a look at themselves. Cork do it as well though, with amalgamations, and the constituent clubs competing at lower levels. They're obviously corrupt too.

It's not that it's not viewed as good, it's that it will pile on top of the already unworkable fixtures situation. The idea of every player getting to play senior championship sounds great on the face of it. There are only so many weekends between April and October.

[twohands!!!]

If it's not viewed as any good, then the people doing the viewing need to have a look at themselves. Cork do it as well though, with amalgamations, and the constituent clubs competing at lower levels. They're obviously corrupt too.

It's not that it's not viewed as good, it's that it will pile on top of the already unworkable fixtures situation. The idea of every player getting to play senior championship sounds great on the face of it. There are only so many weekends between April and October.

The thing is that there are plenty of counties with a hurling scene that is probably the same as Kerry's in terms of taking up fixture time.
I'm pretty sure Kerry are up among the top 5/6 counties in terms of number of clubs and Kerry are usually involved at county level for a good bit, especially when you take into account senior, U21, minor and junior, yet they manage it. There must easily be 20 counties with a smaller number of clubs, that play the same or less amount of club hurling, and don't have as much intercounty action. What's stopping all of them adopting similar structures?

[Ball Hopper]

4 Dec – updating junior football and hurling finals.  All done for 2016 edit to correct score in junior football final

Senior Football

QF:  30 Oct.  Dr. Crokes (Kerry) 1-14  Kilmurry/Ibrickane (Clare) 0-08 
QF: 30 Oct.  Carbery Rangers (Cork) 2-11  Monaleen (Limerick) 0-07

SF:  13 Nov.  Dr. Crokes (Kerry) 1-12 Loughmore-Castleiney (Tipperary) 0-9
SF: 13 Nov.  The Nire (Waterford) 2-15 Carbery Rangers (Cork) 1-13 AET

Final: 27 Nov Dr. Crokes (Kerry) 3-15  The Nire (Waterford) 0-6

Intermediate Football

QF:  30 Oct. Kenmare (Kerry) 4-24  Fethard (Tipperary) 0-05 
QF: Adare (Limerick) w/o Waterford (scr.)

SF:  13 Nov. Kenmare (Kerry) 3-11 Kilfenora (Clare) 0-7
SF:  13 Nov. Adare (Limerick) 0-13 Kiskeam (Cork) 0-10

Final:  27 Nov Kenmare (Kerry) 1-20  Adare (Limerick) 1-8

Junior Football

QF:  6 Nov.  Gabriel Rangers (Cork) 2-11 Meelick (Clare) 0-02
QF:  13 Nov.  Glenbeigh-Glencar (Kerry) w/o Waterford scr.

SF: 19 Nov.  Gabriel Rangers (Cork) 1-13 Clonoulty-Rossmore (Tipperary) 1-4
SF: 19 Nov.  Glenbeigh-Glencar (Kerry) 1-13 Gerald Griffins (Limerick) 0-6

Final 4 Dec. Glenbeigh-Glencar (Kerry) 2-16 Gabriel Rangers (Cork) 0-10


Senior Hurling

QF:  30 Oct Thurles Sarsfields (Tipperary) 0-17 Ballygunner (Waterford) 0-16

SF:  6 Nov.  Glen Rovers (Cork) 0-15  Patrickswell (Limerick) 0-14
SF: 6 Nov.  Ballyea (Clare) 4-18  Thurles Sarsfields (Tipperary) 2-22

Final: 20 Nov  Ballyea (Clare) 1-21 Glen Rovers (Cork) 2-10

Intermediate Hurling

QF:  30 Oct.  Lismore (Waterford) 2-20  Bandon (Cork) 1-12
QF:  22 Oct.  Monaleen (Limerick) 2-21  St. Josephs (Clare) 3-13

SF:  6 Nov. Kilmoyley (Kerry) 4-12  Monaleen (Limerick) 0-13
SF:  5 Nov. Lismore (Waterford) 1-15  Newport (Tipperary) 1-12

Final: 19 Nov  Lismore (Waterford) 2-14 Kilmoyley (Kerry) 0-13

Junior Hurling

QF:  29 Oct.  Ballyduff Lower (Waterford) 0-15 Kilgarvan (Kerry) 0-05
QF:  30 Oct.  Mayfield (Cork) 4-34 St. Patricks (Limerick) 0-02

SF: 13 Nov.  Mayfield (Cork) 1-27 Bodyke (Clare) 1-7
SF: 13 Nov.  Ballyduff Lower (Waterford) 0-14 Ballybacon/Grange (Tipperary) 0-6

Final: 4 Dec.  Mayfield (Cork) 2-18 v Ballyduff Lower (Waterford) 3-10

[clarshack]

Final 4 Dec. Glenbeigh-Glencar (Kerry) 2-16 Gabriel Rangers (Cork) 2-10

was this result not 2-16 to 0-10?

[Ball Hopper]

Final 4 Dec. Glenbeigh-Glencar (Kerry) 2-16 Gabriel Rangers (Cork) 2-10

was this result not 2-16 to 0-10?

Corrected...thanks for spotting that.  My source was incorrect.