Quinn Insurance in Administration

[supersarsfields]

just with regards to there not being a Quinn Anglo bid.


<sup>Quinn Anglo takeover plans emerge
Author: Mairi MacDonald

Source: Post | 13 Jan 2011

Details of the Quinn family's discussion with Anglo Irish Bank over a possible joint takeover of Quinn Insurance have emerged in the Irish press.
The Irish Times has reported that the family proposed to pay holders of some €1.3bn of Quinn Group debt a cash payment of up to €200m, in lieu of guarantees over the assets of the insurance business's subsidiary companies.

The newspaper added: "Among the proposals within the Quinn plan submitted to Anglo are that the family would purchase Quinn Insurance from the administrators for a nominal sum of €1, with Anglo investing up to €650m so that the company meets solvency requirements."

It claimed that the proposal outlined plans to float or sell the company "in seven years".

The sale of the insurance business is expected to be announced in the next two to four weeks.


Read more: http://www.postonline.co.uk/post/news/1936812/quinn-anglo-takeover-plans-emerge#ixzz1AutuSLa0
Post - Insurance news for the UK. Subscribe now.</sup>

So it seems there been alot of mis-information being put out by all parties in this sales process. With that in mind I'd put my hands up to say anything I have posted has just come from what I've heard or from media outlets like the above article. Stories seem to change daily unfortunately.

[Evil Genius]

Not sure where the jobs will go bb. Maybe overseas call centre or blended in with their own structures. But Liberty Mutual have said they won't require the staff or local offices so would mean massive job losses. I think these job losses are the only stumbling block with the sales process at the minute as the gov have realised what sort of an impact this will have. Only for this the sale would have been completed by now.

I have a number of friends and relations working for Quinns and none of them have heard this about the local offices being closed.......whats your source ?

Surely employing people in the local offices would be cheaper than employing a workforce in Dublin.....

Surely if the sale process has progressed to having 2 potentail bidders left then theres no way a deal between Anglo & Quinn can now happen............what happens with the 2 bidders left, can we just tell them to feck off we were only messing about selling.......

Ah the whole thing is a mess...............i just wish we'd soon know one way or another.......

Can't claim to know anything about the ins-and-outs of the Irish insurance market, but in the end, all such companies are interested only in  profit.

That is, Liberty will only be interested in Quinn's business/clients, not their staff or offices. And if, as well as taking clients from Quinn, they can also put Quinn out of business permanently, that would be a tremendous coup for them.

As for staff being cheaper etc in Cavan/Ekn than Dublin etc, with the current state of the Irish economy, I doubt whether Liberty's existing Dublin staff are so busy that they could not handle the extra business from Quinn (overtime, temps etc). And in the end, if they really did need more staff to cope, then they could always take on ex-Quinn staff, probably on reduced terms, at whatever location (Cavan/Ekn or Dublin etc) which suits them (Liberty) best. 

Tbh, I'm not one for Governments saving jobs at all costs (even though I really fear for the economy of the border counties if Quinn goes under). For in the end, when a Government subsidises an unproductive job for Worker A, they can only do so by taking extra tax etc from Worker B, who is in a productive job. Eventually, you risk taking so much from Worker B that his/her job becomes unproductive, so that both become a burden on Worker C etc.

Imo, the argument for saving Quinn (i.e. by giving them their 7 years etc) is actually that this will keep the Irish insurance market competitive, which is actually good for the whole of the country. If it also keeps extra workers in employment in one region of the country, so much the better.

Unfortunately, I fear that just as Liberty will only be interested in profit, Cowen & Co will only be interested in trying to clinging on to power somehow, regardless of how slim their chances are. So that if Liberty's offer gives them even an extra month or two etc, they'll probably take that - and bugger the long-term consequences for everyone else. 

[tyroneboi]

Dreadful that jobs are going to be lost and having been unemployed at various times myself it isn't a nice position to be in to say the least. From a purely selfish point of view, my car insurance is up with Quinns at the end of February. How are policies being affected by this latest takeover news? Are prices going up etc??

[supersarsfields]

Pricing is all over the place TB. Some people are getting crazy quotes and others don't seem to be affected. My own policy was up there and it dropped from £550 ish down to £480 or something close. So it's hard to know what way you'll be affected.

[supersarsfields]

Just back from a meeting of the lisnaskea chamber of commerce regarding the Quinn sale. Cross border and cross party representation at it.
It is actually crazy what is happening with regards to this by both the Financial regulator and by their inaction, the two Brians (and this in-action spreads before the recent changes with the Irish gov).
And it's going to be both the tax payer and employees who are going to feel the effect of this.
How a proposal that has been passed by every body involved in the process as being the only proposal that would satisfy the main points ( payment of dept to taxpayer, retain jobs in the local community, protect policy holders etc) has been declined by an emotive regulator who won't respond to direct questions put to him regarding the sale and hides behing the fact that he is unaccountable is going to cost the Irish tax payer 2.8 billion euro. Add to that the probable loss of jobs In a community that is struggling anyway and it's actually unbelievable. And yet that looks like wat is going to happen.

[bcarrier]

Why would the regulator be emotive ?

I can understand why others would be.

[orangeman]

So what is the latest SS ?

[supersarsfields]

Why would the regulator be emotive ?

I can understand why others would be.

There's been a few reasons to be honest. The main one is the fact that he fecked up putting QIL in admin in first place ( both the way he went about it and the reasons behind it). The Quinns decision has been the biggest one he made since coming in. And if Quinns were to get it back now after costing upwards of £200m used up by keeping them in admin for a year it wouldn't reflect well on the way he went about it ( he could have given the company time to sort the solvency like other insurers have in the past. Indeed if Quinns do lose this it's going to result in a huge legal battle regarding the regulator's actions.   
There has been other accusations that have been directed his way aswell regarding his decision to put Qil into admin but I'll not put them up here but you can pm me if you want.
I suppose the main reason alot of people think that he is being emotive is that he can't/ won't justify questions put to him regarding the sale. If there was economic reasons it would be easier to give the reasons rather than leave them unanswered.

OM at the minute they are reviewing two proposals from foreign insurance companies. But neither fits in with the main requirements. Yet regulator prevented the Quinn/ Anglo proposal going ahead and won't give reasons why.

[orangeman]

Shocking amount of money - £200million !!!


Is the Quinn bid dead in your opinion ?.

[supersarsfields]

It's out of the picture at the min OM as the regulator didn't submit it. So techinically it's should be dead. But the only saving grace is that neither of the other two options successfully meets the requirements. And in the last few weeks there has been increasing political influence being exerted by cross border and cross party reps to find out why the Quinn proposal hasn't been forwarded for review. It was too easy for the regulator to ignore Quinn reps when they were asking questions about  why their proposal had been refused, it's another to ignore politicians!! So hopefully if the sale can be stalled til after the new election there might be some hope. Brian Lenihan had refused to discuss the matter for the last three months and refused to attend meetings regarding it so hopefully the quicker a new finance minister is in the better.
But I'm not hopeful. At the end of the day the regulator isn't accountable to the finance minister as he's completely untouchable so he can avoid any questions if he wants to. And it seems like that's what he's going to do!!
I'll try and go into the Quinn proposal in a bit more detail tomorrow but it's head and shoulders above any other option. 

[dublinfella]

Why would the regulator be emotive ?

I can understand why others would be.

There's been a few reasons to be honest. The main one is the fact that he fecked up putting QIL in admin in first place ( both the way he went about it and the reasons behind it). The Quinns decision has been the biggest one he made since coming in. And if Quinns were to get it back now after costing upwards of £200m used up by keeping them in admin for a year it wouldn't reflect well on the way he went about it ( he could have given the company time to sort the solvency like other insurers have in the past. Indeed if Quinns do lose this it's going to result in a huge legal battle regarding the regulator's actions.   
There has been other accusations that have been directed his way aswell regarding his decision to put Qil into admin but I'll not put them up here but you can pm me if you want.
I suppose the main reason alot of people think that he is being emotive is that he can't/ won't justify questions put to him regarding the sale. If there was economic reasons it would be easier to give the reasons rather than leave them unanswered.

OM at the minute they are reviewing two proposals from foreign insurance companies. But neither fits in with the main requirements. Yet regulator prevented the Quinn/ Anglo proposal going ahead and won't give reasons why.

Or maybe he is right to be suspicious of any deal that seems to good to be true involving Anglo and Quinn, whose owners have lied, cheated and stole recently?

You are askng the Regulator to trust Sean Quinn, the reciepient of the largest and second largest ever fines in Irish legal history and Anglo, which is the biggest bankruptcy in global history,  claiming he has an 'agenda' when he doesn't?

Thank God no-one who matters is buying this parochical nonsense.

[orangeman]

If it was in our own parish, I think we might be more inclined to believe it as well and it might not sound like nonsense at all.

[supersarsfields]

Why would the regulator be emotive ?

I can understand why others would be.

There's been a few reasons to be honest. The main one is the fact that he fecked up putting QIL in admin in first place ( both the way he went about it and the reasons behind it). The Quinns decision has been the biggest one he made since coming in. And if Quinns were to get it back now after costing upwards of £200m used up by keeping them in admin for a year it wouldn't reflect well on the way he went about it ( he could have given the company time to sort the solvency like other insurers have in the past. Indeed if Quinns do lose this it's going to result in a huge legal battle regarding the regulator's actions.   
There has been other accusations that have been directed his way aswell regarding his decision to put Qil into admin but I'll not put them up here but you can pm me if you want.
I suppose the main reason alot of people think that he is being emotive is that he can't/ won't justify questions put to him regarding the sale. If there was economic reasons it would be easier to give the reasons rather than leave them unanswered.

OM at the minute they are reviewing two proposals from foreign insurance companies. But neither fits in with the main requirements. Yet regulator prevented the Quinn/ Anglo proposal going ahead and won't give reasons why.

Or maybe he is right to be suspicious of any deal that seems to good to be true involving Anglo and Quinn, whose owners have lied, cheated and stole recently?

You are askng the Regulator to trust Sean Quinn, the reciepient of the largest and second largest ever fines in Irish legal history and Anglo, which is the biggest bankruptcy in global history,  claiming he has an 'agenda' when he doesn't?

Thank God no-one who matters is buying this parochical nonsense.

Again your taking Sh*te about something you obviously know nothing about. The Quinn/ anglo deal means Quinns give up any role in the company. They aren't involved in any part of it. The only conditions they made were that the jobs were kept local and that the profits over the seven years go to pay of the debt to the Irish tax payer.

Have you read the proposal Dublinfella?

[dublinfella]

Sarsfileds,

A backroom deal between Anglo and Quinn is the main reason that Quinn Insurance is at deaths door.

You are now, with a straight face, criticising the Regulator for not approving a second backroom deal between Anglo and Quinn.

The substance of the deal is irrelevant. Neither party has the credibility.

[supersarsfields]

Now again your taking cr*p. Do you think this deal has been trashed out by Quinn and Anglo by themselves? Don't be so stupid. it's been done using all the financial bodies, including PWC among other, it's been stress tested has been shown to have no holes in it.
As you didn't answer my question above I'll assume that you haven't read the proposal and therefore know nothing about what it says. Neither anglo nor Quinn are going to be active in the new company. It would have an independant board of directers that have neither no connections to Quinns nor have to answer any questions from Quinns. It would involve the full regulation of it's accounts including solvency. Therefore the credibility of angle or Quinn has little relevance.

The alternative to this is bringing in a Third party like Zurich or Liberty which will mean two things. The loss of jobs locally and the none payment of £2.8Billion Euro to the tax payer.

Your saying that the only issue is the credibility of the two parties involved in this. Even allowing for this ( Despite the fact, as I've already explained, neither party is going to be involved in running the business) are you saying that because of this credibility issue they should decide on a proposal that ignores two of the major three points that were outlined as areas of concern?  Surely that's cutting of your nose to spite your face? Which is what has been levelled at the regulator. So in a roundabout way you've kinda shown my point regardin the amazement by all political representives at the regulators actions.