Quinn Insurance in Administration

[Declan]

Just wondering lets say QI still broke the solvency ratios but didn't owe the Anglo debt. Would the corse of action still be taking over the business?

In a real regulatory environment yes

Or alternatively if QI hadn't broken the solvency ratios but obviously still owed the debt would they still have taken over the business?

I'd have thought this would be between the Bank and it's creditors and it's up to the bank to take action

Or is it just a case that the solvency ratios gave Anglo a chance and reason to take over QI by using the regulator

?
I think so yes

[FarneyMan]

supersarsfields, i'm guessing your in the same boat as myself, my better half works for QI and for the last week or more its been a constant concern about whats going to happen........im still hopeful that whatever happens, jobs can be retained in the area cos there is nothing else about.........

Its just a complete mess................

[haranguerer]

I honestly don't know what would happen in the result of another insurance company taking over. There are quite a few insurance conmpanies that use a UK based offices which would take away the need for a local NI or Ireland one. There are also some of the larger international insurance companies that have their call centres farther away again ( Which unfortuinately I've had loads of experience with!!).
But again it's just speculation at this point until it is bought over. But the problem could be at that point it might be too late to save the jobs.

But at the minute things look very bleak from my point of view anyway.

I'm sure it can easily be demonstrated that Quinn Group is of 'systemic' importance to the Fermanagh/Cavan region. With that in mind I'd be confident that a deal of some description will be done to protect jobs and have some future for some of the businesses. That future may not be on the staff's terms and almost certainly won't be on Sean Quinn's terms but hopefully there will be a future for all the employees nonetheless.

However presenting Quinn as a victim or hero or whatever won't help the real victims who are the staff.

There will be a loada empty promises as usual, nothing else. The reason Quinn commands such loyalty is that he has been loyal to the area. Most people realise that saving quinn and saving their jobs are very closely linked, cos anyone who buys it over will be outta there as soon as the deal allows.

[muppet]

I honestly don't know what would happen in the result of another insurance company taking over. There are quite a few insurance conmpanies that use a UK based offices which would take away the need for a local NI or Ireland one. There are also some of the larger international insurance companies that have their call centres farther away again ( Which unfortuinately I've had loads of experience with!!).
But again it's just speculation at this point until it is bought over. But the problem could be at that point it might be too late to save the jobs.

But at the minute things look very bleak from my point of view anyway.

I'm sure it can easily be demonstrated that Quinn Group is of 'systemic' importance to the Fermanagh/Cavan region. With that in mind I'd be confident that a deal of some description will be done to protect jobs and have some future for some of the businesses. That future may not be on the staff's terms and almost certainly won't be on Sean Quinn's terms but hopefully there will be a future for all the employees nonetheless.

However presenting Quinn as a victim or hero or whatever won't help the real victims who are the staff.

There will be a loada empty promises as usual, nothing else. The reason Quinn commands such loyalty is that he has been loyal to the area. Most people realise that saving quinn and saving their jobs are very closely linked, cos anyone who buys it over will be outta there as soon as the deal allows.

I don't understand how people whose livelihood have been gambled can see it that way. If you see Quinn as owning the staff then fine, but if you see him as having a shred of responsibility to the staff that helped him along the road then I wouldn't agree.

I still see the staff as innocents here and sincerely hope it works out for them. I have no sympathy for the man who gambled €3 Billion on a CFD. I don't agree with you that if someone else takes over that the jobs are gone but I accept that it is a variable and we won't know for sure until it happens. In that case ironically Anglo might be the best bet.

[orangeman]

What's the latest

[Bogball XV]

I still see the staff as innocents here and sincerely hope it works out for them. I have no sympathy for the man who gambled €3 Billion on a CFD. I don't agree with you that if someone else takes over that the jobs are gone but I accept that it is a variable and we won't know for sure until it happens. In that case ironically Anglo might be the best bet.

Is it not the case that Quinn's net worth rose from approx 1Bn in 2000 to an estimated 4.5Bn precisely because of such gambles in the first place?  If so, was SQ's only crime not knowing when to leave the table?

[orangeman]

Anyone have any insight into what's going to happen tomorrow with the administrators ??

[Denn Forever]

There is a postponement of court procedings until next Monday.  Will a deal be cut?

I will have to listen to Northern Sound at 1 o'clock to get the lowdown.  Never thought I'd be doing this!

[A Quinn Martin Production]

There is a postponement of court procedings until next Monday.  Will a deal be cut?

I will have to listen to Northern Sound at 1 o'clock to get the lowdown.  Never thought I'd be doing this!

Looks like Quinns are buying time to cut a deal with Anglo that the Regulator will be able to live with??

[thewobbler]

My grasp of big boy economics is on a par with your average garden toad, but surely the 100m euro or so that Quinn is short, is nothing compared to the amount of money that Irish development boards and employment agencies have spent and will continue to spend, in order to bring foreign companies and their various employment opportunities to Ireland?

I'm not sponsoring the idea that major companies can do what they like, but surely as an indigenous company that has made a long-term commitment to employment in Ireland you might expect not be made an example of.

[An Gaeilgoir]

There is a postponement of court procedings until next Monday.  Will a deal be cut?

I will have to listen to Northern Sound at 1 o'clock to get the lowdown.  Never thought I'd be doing this!

Looks like Quinns are buying time to cut a deal with Anglo that the Regulator will be able to live with??

Just wondering did anyone hear the Quinn chief operations manager on Radio 1 yesterday morning. The arrogance of the man, his point was if Quinn insurance is taken from the Quinn  group, the taxpayer will not get the 2.8 billion Anglo money back. The regualtor should first and foremost protect the taxpayer and worry about the rules been adhered to, secondly. he failed to see the point that Quinn insurance money cannot be used to cover poorer performing parts of the company as this is in breach of the regulations. The panelists tied him up in knots and showed that Quinn group preservation was his priority, f##k the taxpayers and the policy holders. I hope the regulator holds firm and sends out the message to other such "too big to fail" institutions, obey the rules or pay the price, its not the taxpayers job to keep picking up the tab for these institutions' gambling and grey area dealing.

[lynchbhoy]

There is a postponement of court procedings until next Monday.  Will a deal be cut?

I will have to listen to Northern Sound at 1 o'clock to get the lowdown.  Never thought I'd be doing this!

Looks like Quinns are buying time to cut a deal with Anglo that the Regulator will be able to live with??

Just wondering did anyone hear the Quinn chief operations manager on Radio 1 yesterday morning. The arrogance of the man, his point was if Quinn insurance is taken from the Quinn  group, the taxpayer will not get the 2.8 billion Anglo money back. The regualtor should first and foremost protect the taxpayer and worry about the rules been adhered to, secondly. he failed to see the point that Quinn insurance money cannot be used to cover poorer performing parts of the company as this is in breach of the regulations. The panelists tied him up in knots and showed that Quinn group preservation was his priority, f##k the taxpayers and the policy holders. I hope the regulator holds firm and sends out the message to other such "too big to fail" institutions, obey the rules or pay the price, its not the taxpayers job to keep picking up the tab for these institutions' gambling and grey area dealing.

would somewhat agree - but why are we doing exactly this for the banks then ? but not for quinns?

[lynchbhoy]

My grasp of big boy economics is on a par with your average garden toad, but surely the 100m euro or so that Quinn is short, is nothing compared to the amount of money that Irish development boards and employment agencies have spent and will continue to spend, in order to bring foreign companies and their various employment opportunities to Ireland?

I'm not sponsoring the idea that major companies can do what they like, but surely as an indigenous company that has made a long-term commitment to employment in Ireland you might expect not be made an example of.

good point
a gov agency wastes more money than this per year
Enterprise ireland, IDA etc
sure a cousin of mine who worked in the science foundation said that they get 200 million per year to divy out - of which 35 jobs have been created in about 10 years
what a waste

[lynchbhoy]

I honestly don't know what would happen in the result of another insurance company taking over. There are quite a few insurance conmpanies that use a UK based offices which would take away the need for a local NI or Ireland one. There are also some of the larger international insurance companies that have their call centres farther away again ( Which unfortuinately I've had loads of experience with!!).
But again it's just speculation at this point until it is bought over. But the problem could be at that point it might be too late to save the jobs.

But at the minute things look very bleak from my point of view anyway.

I'm sure it can easily be demonstrated that Quinn Group is of 'systemic' importance to the Fermanagh/Cavan region. With that in mind I'd be confident that a deal of some description will be done to protect jobs and have some future for some of the businesses. That future may not be on the staff's terms and almost certainly won't be on Sean Quinn's terms but hopefully there will be a future for all the employees nonetheless.

However presenting Quinn as a victim or hero or whatever won't help the real victims who are the staff.

There will be a loada empty promises as usual, nothing else. The reason Quinn commands such loyalty is that he has been loyal to the area. Most people realise that saving quinn and saving their jobs are very closely linked, cos anyone who buys it over will be outta there as soon as the deal allows.

I don't understand how people whose livelihood have been gambled can see it that way. If you see Quinn as owning the staff then fine, but if you see him as having a shred of responsibility to the staff that helped him along the road then I wouldn't agree.

I still see the staff as innocents here and sincerely hope it works out for them. I have no sympathy for the man who gambled €3 Billion on a CFD. I don't agree with you that if someone else takes over that the jobs are gone but I accept that it is a variable and we won't know for sure until it happens. In that case ironically Anglo might be the best bet.

you might look at it as peoples livlihoods having been gambled with - but for the people in these jobs, this is the only show in town. th eonly employer in this area (save for MBNA) that can give decent employment outside of Dublin.

Their continuing jobs is all they are thinking of.
plus quinn didnt do much more different than many other money men of the past 10-15 years , only he is one of the few left standing...others like mcnamaras have gone into liquidation/bankruptcy and their money is gone (a lot of it still at hand in their wives names etc)...

[An Gaeilgoir]

I honestly don't know what would happen in the result of another insurance company taking over. There are quite a few insurance conmpanies that use a UK based offices which would take away the need for a local NI or Ireland one. There are also some of the larger international insurance companies that have their call centres farther away again ( Which unfortuinately I've had loads of experience with!!).
But again it's just speculation at this point until it is bought over. But the problem could be at that point it might be too late to save the jobs.

But at the minute things look very bleak from my point of view anyway.

I'm sure it can easily be demonstrated that Quinn Group is of 'systemic' importance to the Fermanagh/Cavan region. With that in mind I'd be confident that a deal of some description will be done to protect jobs and have some future for some of the businesses. That future may not be on the staff's terms and almost certainly won't be on Sean Quinn's terms but hopefully there will be a future for all the employees nonetheless.

However presenting Quinn as a victim or hero or whatever won't help the real victims who are the staff.

There will be a loada empty promises as usual, nothing else. The reason Quinn commands such loyalty is that he has been loyal to the area. Most people realise that saving quinn and saving their jobs are very closely linked, cos anyone who buys it over will be outta there as soon as the deal allows.

I don't understand how people whose livelihood have been gambled can see it that way. If you see Quinn as owning the staff then fine, but if you see him as having a shred of responsibility to the staff that helped him along the road then I wouldn't agree.

I still see the staff as innocents here and sincerely hope it works out for them. I have no sympathy for the man who gambled €3 Billion on a CFD. I don't agree with you that if someone else takes over that the jobs are gone but I accept that it is a variable and we won't know for sure until it happens. In that case ironically Anglo might be the best bet.

you might look at it as peoples livlihoods having been gambled with - but for the people in these jobs, this is the only show in town. th eonly employer in this area (save for MBNA) that can give decent employment outside of Dublin.

Their continuing jobs is all they are thinking of.
plus quinn didnt do much more different than many other money men of the past 10-15 years , only he is one of the few left standing...others like mcnamaras have gone into liquidation/bankruptcy and their money is gone (a lot of it still at hand in their wives names etc)...

Agree with everything that has been said, but external people were appointed to these key positions (regualtor, central bank boss)  so that we could turn away from the "nod and the wink culture" that has existed here almost since the foundation of the state. I agree that it must be tough for these workers and their families, but we are at a cross roads here, do we (the tax payer) keep on bailing every rule bender and breaker ,or do we draw a line in the sand and be like every other mature society in the western world by having proper coperate governence and if high risks are taken by these executive boards, then they are the ones with ALL of the risk with no liability to the tax payer. If Quinn's gamble paid off, would Anglo be any quicker getting their money back ?Wasn't it quick Anglo were to arrive with 700 million to "help"Quinn out, he already owes 2.8 billion to the Irish taxpayer, so what is 700 million more? Do these people think we are just here to hand money out to them every time they gamble and get it wrong?How many thousands of jobs could be saved if that money was put into the SME sector to help small companies?  As usual the big mickeys get all the help from their friends in high places and the small fish, including the people who work for Quinn in the border region are left out in the cold. I think Quinn thought that there would be a parachute for him if his gamble didn't work out and now that the climate has changed so much he is left holding the dirty end of the stick.Its time for a change and if these external experts are turning out not to be the "yes" men of the past, well maybe then this country has a chance of getting out of this hole we are in.