Quinn Insurance in Administration

[scud]

Why you asking me that? 

My view is that had the regulator worked with QI, put in measures to prevent the solvency rates falling below 150 again and continued to allow him to pay of his debt then this would have been the best option for the economy, his employees, SQ himself and for the government.

Quinn and the regulator had previously agreed on a plan whereby QI would limit the amount of lossmaking business it wrote in the UK but Quinn subsequently ignored this. I have the feeling Quinn thought he could do whatever he wanted regulation wise.

You have a feeling? I have a feeling some people are just glad to watch a home grown Billionaire, who did more than any of us could ever to do for this economy,fall on his knees. He loaned some of his subsidaries money that weren't doing as well as others. Thats going on everywhere,just on a smaller scale. He never broke any laws. Some people should remember that.
He took unprecedented gambles as regards Anglo-Irish but by heck is he going to pay for it.

He ran the insurance company like a cowboy. He let his employees down. He got caught out regulator wise. He probably thought Neary would continue ad infinitum. He cut a deal with the regulator and subsequently broke it. It's not a witch hunt. This is how regulation is supposed to work.

If the business is solid then what's the worry ? If average salaries are around 20,000€ aren't the jobs likely to stay in borderestan ?   

  excellent

[supersarsfields]

Why you asking me that? 

My view is that had the regulator worked with QI, put in measures to prevent the solvency rates falling below 150 again and continued to allow him to pay of his debt then this would have been the best option for the economy, his employees, SQ himself and for the government.

Quinn and the regulator had previously agreed on a plan whereby QI would limit the amount of lossmaking business it wrote in the UK but Quinn subsequently ignored this. I have the feeling Quinn thought he could do whatever he wanted regulation wise.

You have a feeling? I have a feeling some people are just glad to watch a home grown Billionaire, who did more than any of us could ever to do for this economy,fall on his knees. He loaned some of his subsidaries money that weren't doing as well as others. Thats going on everywhere,just on a smaller scale. He never broke any laws. Some people should remember that.
He took unprecedented gambles as regards Anglo-Irish but by heck is he going to pay for it.

He ran the insurance company like a cowboy. He let his employees down. He got caught out regulator wise. He probably thought Neary would continue ad infinitum. He cut a deal with the regulator and subsequently broke it. It's not a witch hunt. This is how regulation is supposed to work.

If the business is solid then what's the worry ? If average salaries are around 20,000€ aren't the jobs likely to stay in borderestan ?   

If the business is sold there'll be job losses. How many will be unknown. If it's bought by a larger insurance firm there's a chance they could move the call centres to another country which would reduce hugh costs for them. But the results from that will be massive job losses in an area that can't afford them.
He was told when starting QI that he'll never be able to run an irish insurance company successfully. He did and created thousands of jobs that otherwise wouldn't be there now.

[haranguerer]

In the short term, there will be plenty of noise about how a deal has been brokered so that the jobs will stay where they are, and the government will pat themselves on the back. In the long term, noone will have the commitment to that area Quinn has had, and the first chance the new owners get, they'll pull out, leaving that whole part of the country completely fucked.

[Bogball XV]

I have a feeling some people are just glad to watch a home grown Billionaire, who did more than any of us could ever to do for this economy,fall on his knees. He loaned some of his subsidaries money that weren't doing as well as others. Thats going on everywhere,just on a smaller scale. He never broke any laws. Some people should remember that.He took unprecedented gambles as regards Anglo-Irish but by heck is he going to pay for it.

He ran the insurance company like a cowboy. He let his employees down. He got caught out regulator wise. He probably thought Neary would continue ad infinitum. He cut a deal with the regulator and subsequently broke it. It's not a witch hunt. This is how regulation is supposed to work.

If the business is solid then what's the worry ? If average salaries are around 20,000€ aren't the jobs likely to stay in borderestan ?   
[/quote]

If the business is sold there'll be job losses. How many will be unknown. If it's bought by a larger insurance firm there's a chance they could move the call centres to another country which would reduce hugh costs for them. But the results from that will be massive job losses in an area that can't afford them.
He was told when starting QI that he'll never be able to run an irish insurance company successfully. He did and created thousands of jobs that otherwise wouldn't be there now.
[/quote]

If regulations aren't laws what are they?  Apparently a file may be passed to the guards.

Is it likely that the jobs would be moved out of ireland?  I know FBD have their call centres here, I imagine hibernian do too, I would have thought that something like insurance call centres would be more lkely to stay in ireland, not as easy formulaic as mst operations?

[orangeman]

Was he just the "cowboy" that was left standing so that he could be made an example out of ?


Given the 70 billion that is needed to recapitalise the banking industry, 100 million doesn't seem much.


But obviously I don't know the full details like some of you here do.

File being passed to the gardai For what ?.

[supersarsfields]

I honestly don't know what would happen in the result of another insurance company taking over. There are quite a few insurance conmpanies that use a UK based offices which would take away the need for a local NI or Ireland one. There are also some of the larger international insurance companies that have their call centres farther away again ( Which unfortuinately I've had loads of experience with!!).
But again it's just speculation at this point until it is bought over. But the problem could be at that point it might be too late to save the jobs.

But at the minute things look very bleak from my point of view anyway.

[orangeman]

I honestly don't know what would happen in the result of another insurance company taking over. There are quite a few insurance conmpanies that use a UK based offices which would take away the need for a local NI or Ireland one. There are also some of the larger international insurance companies that have their call centres farther away again ( Which unfortuinately I've had loads of experience with!!).
But again it's just speculation at this point until it is bought over. But the problem could be at that point it might be too late to save the jobs.

But at the minute things look very bleak from my point of view anyway.

You're caught up in it I know  - but did SQ's Primetime performance not give you heart and optimism ?.

[muppet]

I honestly don't know what would happen in the result of another insurance company taking over. There are quite a few insurance conmpanies that use a UK based offices which would take away the need for a local NI or Ireland one. There are also some of the larger international insurance companies that have their call centres farther away again ( Which unfortuinately I've had loads of experience with!!).
But again it's just speculation at this point until it is bought over. But the problem could be at that point it might be too late to save the jobs.

But at the minute things look very bleak from my point of view anyway.

I'm sure it can easily be demonstrated that Quinn Group is of 'systemic' importance to the Fermanagh/Cavan region. With that in mind I'd be confident that a deal of some description will be done to protect jobs and have some future for some of the businesses. That future may not be on the staff's terms and almost certainly won't be on Sean Quinn's terms but hopefully there will be a future for all the employees nonetheless.

However presenting Quinn as a victim or hero or whatever won't help the real victims who are the staff.

[supersarsfields]

At this stage I'm just worn down by everything to be honest. One day of optimism is followed by a day of depressing news. I just can't see it working out the way I would like it to.

I'm just guessing we'll know more by Monday evening one way or the other.

[orangeman]

What is the next move by the Regulator likely to be ?

If the solvency ratio requirement is acheived surely's that it Out of administration or is it not just as black and white as all of that ?.

[A Quinn Martin Production]

I honestly don't know what would happen in the result of another insurance company taking over. There are quite a few insurance conmpanies that use a UK based offices which would take away the need for a local NI or Ireland one. There are also some of the larger international insurance companies that have their call centres farther away again ( Which unfortuinately I've had loads of experience with!!).
But again it's just speculation at this point until it is bought over. But the problem could be at that point it might be too late to save the jobs.

But at the minute things look very bleak from my point of view anyway.

Sincerely hope things work out best for you ss.  Good luck.

[seafoid]

They'll probably cut a deal with Quinn that saves the jobs and tells him to stop f**king around with the solvency margin, stop writing as much  loss making business in the UK , stop treating the livelihoods of 5500 decent people as his personal fiefdom, that sort of thing.

It's not as if FF is going to have a snowball's in the next election anyway but this is no time to sacrifice decent jobs.
I hope things work out for you, supersars. There is nothing worse jobwise than not knowing what the next month is going to bring for your employer.   

[lynchbhoy]

maybe I shouldnt be saying this in case its Quinns plan and i'm letting the cat out of the bag with my hypothetical potential scenario.

Quinn allows the portions or the whole lot to be bought over by aviva or some big insurance company.
they take the call centre business out of the country to eastern europe etc - wherever !

The buildings are then put up for sale for pittance as they are of no use to anyone.

However , then Quinn sets up the same operation all over again, but having maybe gained some money and shaken off all of his debt into the bargain by this manouvre !

If you think this is a stupid or crazy suggestion, then remember its exactly what Dermot Desmond did in selling NCB stockbrokers , pocketing hundreds of millions and then starting up the same business under IIU and attracting back all his old customers from NCB - and there wasnt a thing NCB could do about it !

I'd love that to happen !
(pass on the debts to a large non-Irish  insurance multinational and retain all the jobs!)

[Geoff Tipps]

Is it likely that the jobs would be moved out of ireland?  I know FBD have their call centres here, I imagine hibernian do too, I would have thought that something like insurance call centres would be more lkely to stay in ireland, not as easy formulaic as mst operations?

I think they do have a call centre here as an initial starting point for customers  but they've definitely re-located the data processing and claims recovery services. If they were to acquire Quinn there's every chance these jobs would be re located to Bangalore as well.

[supersarsfields]

Cheers QMP & Seafoid.

One thing I've wondered about and maybe someone could help me out. There's obviously two issues involved here. The issue of QG owing Anglo £3 Billion. Then a seperate issue of the Solvency ratios.

Just wondering lets say QI still broke the solvency ratios but didn't owe the Anglo debt. Would the corse of action still be taking over the business?
Or alternatively if QI hadn't broken the solvency ratios but obviously still owed the debt would they still have taken over the business?

Or is it just a case that the solvency ratios gave Anglo a chance and reason to take over QI by using the regulator?
(Serious question here and I'm not trying to deflect from the two major issues here regarding QG and QI)