Down v Armagh. June 4th

[Orior]

So Mc Geeney had no input yesterday,at half time etc,it was all down to John Toal,according to himself? Is this the way this will be spun,don't blame Kieran?

I said last week that this game didn't matter,neither team will have a long summer.That was proven yesterday.The Down delight was muted and more about winning a Championship fixture.Meanwhile I walked back into Newry City Centre after the game,with hordes of others,Down and Armagh fans and saw no evidence of unfettered joy from Down fans nor heard any moaning from Armagh fans.This is a long way from the halcyon days when a win in this fixture would have been celebrated like an All Ireland win or a defeat would have incited a riot in protest.Narrow Defeat in this fixture in 1991 cost Joe Kernan and Paddy Moriarity their jobs (and they had brought the team to the Ulster Final the previous year).Are both teams now that poor that people have given up?

Couldn'd disagree with any of that. There was no atmosphere at the match and even the row at the end didn't ignite any passion on the terraces , more bemusement in my opinion.  I think both sets of fans knew that the result would only judge who  was the worst of 2 bad teams. McGeeney must have to look at himself and if he decides to stay he has some neck on him. I've heard the figure of £80,000 mentioned a few times and if it's true then it's shocking. Means that by the end of this year he'll have earned just short of a quarter of a million quid, for what. We have good players who have been ruined by him. I'm told he stood back in the Carrickdale on Sunday night and let the players tear into each other. If that's the case where does leadership come into it.  He then, allegedly, at the end of the evening, snuck out a back door. If that's true it says a lot.

Well that tells me that there is plenty of passion in the team and hopefully it will be channeled positively in the qualifiers and everyone will be available.

[Mourne Rover]

The posters who have been suggesting that there was a flat atmosphere yesterday compared to previous contests may be letting distance lend enchantment to their views. Down's 1991 win was a dreadful game played in awful conditions at a venue which then had no cover at all, and soaked fans could not leave the ground quickly enough at the end. When Down won again the following year at the Athletic Grounds, it was a roasting hot day but Armagh's challenge faded out quickly and their supporters again left early. Since then, Armagh have won five championship matches in a row against Down by generally comfortable margins. Yesterday was the tightest championship encounter between the two counties for a quarter of a century and contained far more excitement than the 1991 meeting. The atmosphere was decent, rather than electric, but no one on the Down side will be complaining.

[T Fearon]

In 1991 both sets of supporters were buzzing,particularly after the previous year's encounter when Down came back from the dead to draw the semi final against Armagh at Casement only to lose by a single point in the replay.There was a genuine prospect of an Ulster title for the winners of this clash in 1991.I remember the game well,the crowd hoarse with excitement throughout and the acute disappointment of Armagh losing after only losing by a point in the previous year's Ulster Final.

Yes the facilities are better now,yes the sun was shining yesterday,but I'll still remember the 91 clash in a month's time, but not yesterday's clash.Then again in 1991 you had quality players like Blaney,Linden,Martin Mc Quillan,Ger Houlahan,i.e. no one on the pitch yesterday would lace these guys boots

[armaghniac]

The posters who have been suggesting that there was a flat atmosphere yesterday compared to previous contests may be letting distance lend enchantment to their views. Down's 1991 win was a dreadful game played in awful conditions at a venue which then had no cover at all, and soaked fans could not leave the ground quickly enough at the end. When Down won again the following year at the Athletic Grounds, it was a roasting hot day but Armagh's challenge faded out quickly and their supporters again left early. Since then, Armagh have won five championship matches in a row against Down by generally comfortable margins. Yesterday was the tightest championship encounter between the two counties for a quarter of a century and contained far more excitement than the 1991 meeting. The atmosphere was decent, rather than electric, but no one on the Down side will be complaining.

Sure we were young then and excitable!
I certainly remember it being wet, although a lot of the game was not that wet judging by the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm5uFmoBvHg

Beating Armagh was a good start in for Down 1991, as they were among the better teams in Ulster. Not so, now.

[twohands!!!]

So Mc Geeney had no input yesterday,at half time etc,it was all down to John Toal,according to himself? Is this the way this will be spun,don't blame Kieran?

I said last week that this game didn't matter,neither team will have a long summer.That was proven yesterday.The Down delight was muted and more about winning a Championship fixture.Meanwhile I walked back into Newry City Centre after the game,with hordes of others,Down and Armagh fans and saw no evidence of unfettered joy from Down fans nor heard any moaning from Armagh fans.This is a long way from the halcyon days when a win in this fixture would have been celebrated like an All Ireland win or a defeat would have incited a riot in protest.Narrow Defeat in this fixture in 1991 cost Joe Kernan and Paddy Moriarity their jobs (and they had brought the team to the Ulster Final the previous year).Are both teams now that poor that people have given up?

There is a lot of truth in this, the atmosphere was strangely muted. As noted earlier, previous League and even McKenna Cup games had more agitated crowds.

Quite apart from the second half, when Down parked the bus and defended in a disciplined way, this game was lost in the first 15 minutes when Armagh let Down off to a lead and failed to do anything.

Down are not great, but they have progressed none the less. Not much evidence of progress in Armagh.

Down have progressed a bit, but they still look like a fairly poor outfit.

The first Armagh goal they conceded will probably be a strong contender for "worst goal conceded by a defence in the championship" - To start with the foul conceded was for a blatant, clear as day, your 90 year-old granny blind in one eye and with a cataract in the other, sitting down in the opposite corner of the terrace could see it, even though Clarke had almost gone over the sideline to rescue an over-hit ball (I think there is a decent possibility it would have been a Down line-back if there was no push in the back - maybe someone at the game knows better?)but he wasn't posing any immediate danger, so giving away a free was just daft.

The high ball in was from a deadball that wasn't a taken quickly effort, so there was zero excuses for the Down defence in terms of having enough men back and these men taking up the correct positions.

There are only a limited number of options in this scenario but the key one is be ready for what happens if the ball drops into the square.
The fact that 2 Down players jumped and Murnin managed to "win" possession is a serious black mark against Down's defence.
Down could have survived as Murnin dropped the ball to the ground.
However despite there being plenty of Down men around it was an Armagh player (Clarke) who was the one who won possession and got the pass away to Shield.
At one stage when Clarke was in possession there was 5 Down players plus keeper between him and the goal, yet 2/3 seconds later after Shield stepped around one Down defender he only had the keeper to beat - his shot was a decent effort but the decision making process by the Down defenders to clear out of dodge as a unit was unbelievably poor.
As further damming evidence of the poorness of Down's defending, the nearest player to Cunningham in the Down goal's was Murnin - and there was a serious lack of Down players near the small "square" by this stage, so if Cunningham had even managed to save the shot, you would have said Murnin would be strong favourite to be the one to win the rebound.

Overall that was the kind of goal you expect to see conceded in an underage game by inexperienced defenders who have no idea of what they should be doing - for an intercounty team to concede such a goal is seriously rank bad defending. The worry for Down is that they conceded other cheap goal opportunities in the first half. In the second half they added more men to the defence, but the fact that Armagh scored 3 points in the 2nd half was more about the fact that Armagh's attack was woeful than about any great improvement in Down's defending.

Based on the game yesterday I would rate both teams chances poorly if they come any sort of half-decent side.

[BarryBreensBandage]

In 1991 both sets of supporters were buzzing,particularly after the previous year's encounter when Down came back from the dead to draw the semi final against Armagh at Casement only to lose by a single point in the replay.There was a genuine prospect of an Ulster title for the winners of this clash in 1991.I remember the game well,the crowd hoarse with excitement throughout and the acute disappointment of Armagh losing after only losing by a point in the previous year's Ulster Final.

Yes the facilities are better now,yes the sun was shining yesterday,but I'll still remember the 91 clash in a month's time, but not yesterday's clash.Then again in 1991 you had quality players like Blaney,Linden,Martin Mc Quillan,Ger Houlahan,i.e. no one on the pitch yesterday would lace these guys boots

Nonsense, that match was one of the worst games of football I have ever seen, Mickey Linden's penalty being the only highlight to a terrible game. A damp squib if ever there was one. Everyone was soaked to the skin and couldn't wait to get home, including Down fans whose team had just won. And people were hoarse because of an impending bout of flu.

[T Fearon]

It may not have had much good football technically (neither had yesterday's game) but both sides in 1991 had a genuine chance of an Ulster title and the stakes were high.

The worst match I ever saw was the 1991 AI semi between Down and a Kerry team so old and past it,it was tantamount to abuse of the elderly

[BennyCake]

Donegal Mayo 92 semi wasn't any better, T.

[T Fearon]

Correct,was at that one too.

[BennyCake]

Correct,was at that one too.

I think we all were. Great minor win beforehand.

[T Fearon]

Yes indeed

[StGallsGAA]

So Mc Geeney had no input yesterday,at half time etc,it was all down to John Toal,according to himself? Is this the way this will be spun,don't blame Kieran?

I said last week that this game didn't matter,neither team will have a long summer.That was proven yesterday.The Down delight was muted and more about winning a Championship fixture.Meanwhile I walked back into Newry City Centre after the game,with hordes of others,Down and Armagh fans and saw no evidence of unfettered joy from Down fans nor heard any moaning from Armagh fans.This is a long way from the halcyon days when a win in this fixture would have been celebrated like an All Ireland win or a defeat would have incited a riot in protest.Narrow Defeat in this fixture in 1991 cost Joe Kernan and Paddy Moriarity their jobs (and they had brought the team to the Ulster Final the previous year).Are both teams now that poor that people have given up?

Couldn'd disagree with any of that. There was no atmosphere at the match and even the row at the end didn't ignite any passion on the terraces , more bemusement in my opinion.  I think both sets of fans knew that the result would only judge who  was the worst of 2 bad teams. McGeeney must have to look at himself and if he decides to stay he has some neck on him. I've heard the figure of £80,000 mentioned a few times and if it's true then it's shocking. Means that by the end of this year he'll have earned just short of a quarter of a million quid, for what. We have good players who have been ruined by him. I'm told he stood back in the Carrickdale on Sunday night and let the players tear into each other. If that's the case where does leadership come into it.  He then, allegedly, at the end of the evening, snuck out a back door. If that's true it says a lot.

Any truth that because Geezer has creamed a cool £1/4 million that all the players got was soup and a sandwich and they tore into each other due to hunger? 

[armaghniac]

Correct,was at that one too.

I think we all were. Great minor win beforehand.

And those minors went on to better things. The current crop were fine minors too.

[Applesisapples]

It was a poor game of football, and I think both teams have decent players, Down had a game plan and that made the difference by the finest of margins. It's hard to know with Geezer, I look at the team and think could do better, but then we thought the same with the last three managers. Someone mentioned Bob Dylan, in Slow Train he wrote you "you either got faith or you got unbelief and there ain't no neutral ground." it sums up where most Armagh fans stand on Geezer. I'd like to see a McEntee or McConville or O'Neill in there with him. As for the £80K(if it is true), that is not coming from the County Board, if Geezer has sponsors willing to dole out that sort of cash, well fair play to him.

[T Fearon]

Surely if it is sponsors they must be contemplating the value for money aspect.