6 County Assembly Elections - 5th May 2022

[seafoid]

The DUP are walking all over the Shinners.
Border Poll in 5 years my arse.

Care to elaborate?

SF as biggest party doesn't change anything. There is no majority for unity if you look at totals for the 2 sides. The DUP can always get the Tories onside .

So "the DUP are running rings around the shinners" because demographics? OK so.

The demographics aren't there for a successful border poll right now . And the DUP are setting the agenda now. What are SF doing ?

[Rossfan]

First the 6 Cos voters have to vote for a UI.

Or they could be held simultaneously.

Would be some waste of money in the event of 6 Cos crowd saying "NO"

[Eire90]

There is some right wing types in the south that wants ireland to join the uk

How does this make them "right wing"?

Because they want to align witht the tories and farage types

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

A lot of people don't understand right wing v left wing. It is often an easy way of getting out of a debate, throw enough mud and it sticks

[6th sam]

There is some right wing types in the south that wants ireland to join the uk

How does this make them "right wing"?

Good question wobbler. My understanding as a Nordie with an interest in Southern politics .
FG historically would be centre right. Though left/right politics throughout the island are not as binary as they tend to be in Britain , most right wingers in the South would probably be FG supporters. The "west-Brit " gibe was often directed at those who had an affiliation with "British ways" and were not as patriotically Irish , and the perception was they would have mainly been FG aligned and therefore right wing(albeit centre right).
Historically many FG politicians eg Bruton and Fitzgerald seemed to have little understanding or empathy for nationalists in the North, compared to Ahern/Reynolds/Haughey. FF self proclaimed as the "Republican Party " have always been wedded to a United ireland , whilst FG , even going back to their origins , have been comfortable with partition.
(Ironically at present , Miceál Martin FF seems to have a more partitionist outlook, whilst Simon Coveney  FG has shown an empathy towards northern nationalists rarely seen in FG.)

Right or left wing aside , there would be no interest in the South in linking back with UK even among those not particularly patriotic . ROI though not perfect , has done well since independence, given that only a few years prior to 1916 Ireland had suffered the horrors of the Famine under British rule, and the UK retained over 90% of the GDP on the island after independence of the 26. NI by comparison , since independence has been a disaster despite its massive economic advantages at its inception.

[Snapchap]

The DUP are walking all over the Shinners.
Border Poll in 5 years my arse.

Care to elaborate?

SF as biggest party doesn't change anything. There is no majority for unity if you look at totals for the 2 sides. The DUP can always get the Tories onside .

So "the DUP are running rings around the shinners" because demographics? OK so.

The demographics aren't there for a successful border poll right now . And the DUP are setting the agenda now. What are SF doing ?

You used demographics as your one and only explanation for how the DUP are "running rings around the shinners". It's a bit....desperate.

Since I'm sure you will concede that perhaps the demographic makeup of the population isn't really down to anything the DUP has done, then can you explain how you think the DUP are setting the agenda? There's a big border down the Irish sea which they're not one bit happy about, remember?? Their agenda since the Brexit referendum has been a hard border on the island of Ireland. How's that working out for them? Oh and they also just had their worst Assembly Election since the very first one in 1998. We're also hearing in the news this morning that Boris is flying over today with the intention of once again throwing them under a bus. The best they can hope for is some meaningless, minor alteration to the protocol which they would then have to attempt to sell as a victory. Unless you are basing your analysis purely on the DUP decision to collapse the executive? Which would be odd, because I just took a quick glance through the SF thread from the time of the SF collapse and your analysis then wasn't that SF were "setting the agenda". It was all about how damaged SF were and how they were going to be in big electoral trouble. Funny that.

[seafoid]

The DUP are walking all over the Shinners.
Border Poll in 5 years my arse.

Care to elaborate?

SF as biggest party doesn't change anything. There is no majority for unity if you look at totals for the 2 sides. The DUP can always get the Tories onside .

So "the DUP are running rings around the shinners" because demographics? OK so.

The demographics aren't there for a successful border poll right now . And the DUP are setting the agenda now. What are SF doing ?

You used demographics as your one and only explanation for how the DUP are "running rings around the shinners". It's a bit....desperate.

Since I'm sure you will concede that perhaps the demographic makeup of the population isn't really down to anything the DUP has done, then can you explain how you think the DUP are setting the agenda? There's a big border down the Irish sea which they're not one bit happy about, remember?? Their agenda since the Brexit referendum has been a hard border on the island of Ireland. How's that working out for them? Oh and they also just had their worst Assembly Election since the very first one in 1998. We're also hearing in the news this morning that Boris is flying over today with the intention of once again throwing them under a bus. The best they can hope for is some meaningless, minor alteration to the protocol which they would then have to attempt to sell as a victory. Unless you are basing your analysis purely on the DUP decision to collapse the executive? Which would be odd, because I just took a quick glance through the SF thread from the time of the SF collapse and your analysis then wasn't that SF were "setting the agenda". It was all about how damaged SF were and how they were going to be in big electoral trouble. Funny that.

The Shinners promised a border poll in 5 years. that is not going to happen because 27 Assembly seats do not mean a stable majority in favour of unification.
The DUP have agency and they are using it.
The Shinners need a new strategy.

[Snapchap]

The Shinners promised a border poll in 5 years.

Yet again we have an outright a lie being used around SFs campaign for a border poll. You're like another clown on this board who was trying to say the other day that SF were calling for an immediate border poll. That same claim was repeated ad nauseum here in the days before the election by a few posters in particular. No, SF have not "promised one in 5 years". They are calling for one in five years. When you have to rely on lies, you're on shaky ground.

that is not going to happen because 27 Assembly seats do not mean a stable majority in favour of unification.

Again, you resort to demographics. And again, I have to remind you that the demographic makeup of the population is not evidence that "the DUP are running rings around the shinners". Have another go.

[imtommygunn]

The DUP are walking all over the Shinners.
Border Poll in 5 years my arse.

Care to elaborate?

SF as biggest party doesn't change anything. There is no majority for unity if you look at totals for the 2 sides. The DUP can always get the Tories onside .

So "the DUP are running rings around the shinners" because demographics? OK so.

The demographics aren't there for a successful border poll right now . And the DUP are setting the agenda now. What are SF doing ?

How are the DUP setting the agenda? You are sounding like people did when they were saying how great the DUP were negotiating regarding Brexit. Until people realised that their negotiation tactic was to say no and that was it.

[general_lee]

There is some right wing types in the south that wants ireland to join the uk

How does this make them "right wing"?

Presumably the desire to join an inherently right wing country.

[6th sam]

The DUP are walking all over the Shinners.
Border Poll in 5 years my arse.

Care to elaborate?

SF as biggest party doesn't change anything. There is no majority for unity if you look at totals for the 2 sides. The DUP can always get the Tories onside .

So "the DUP are running rings around the shinners" because demographics? OK so.

The demographics aren't there for a successful border poll right now . And the DUP are setting the agenda now. What are SF doing ?

How are the DUP setting the agenda? You are sounding like people did when they were saying how great the DUP were negotiating regarding Brexit. Until people realised that their negotiation tactic was to say no and that was it.

The DUP have made a career out of saying "no". This will continue to work until Others unite against them. A continuing concern is that "the centre" ie alliance/SDLP/UU backed up by the governments , present the problem here as being two sides of the same coin . Which perpetuates DUP influence . SF and DUP are not the same. SF has mellowed and has made significant efforts to continue in government, even returning to government in the absence of Irish language act. They have put many of their republican ideals aside.  In contrast , DUP has been dragged kicking and screaming into power sharing. Any movement towards normalcy and parity of esteem is either resisted or tolerated by "pinching their nose". They promoted brexit and now can't accept its consequences. They facilitate and promote extreme unionism . All this , and the centre ground response is always qualified by a "SF are just as bad" narrative , which lets DUP off the hook again .

[Eire90]

got a feeling the boris visit today will be a nothing burger

[Eire90]

The unionists will fawn all over him again then act all shock if he does not give them what they want

[marty34]

Must be planning something, if he's coming over.

Seems to be going to override parts of the deal.

[imtommygunn]

The DUP are walking all over the Shinners.
Border Poll in 5 years my arse.

Care to elaborate?

SF as biggest party doesn't change anything. There is no majority for unity if you look at totals for the 2 sides. The DUP can always get the Tories onside .

So "the DUP are running rings around the shinners" because demographics? OK so.

The demographics aren't there for a successful border poll right now . And the DUP are setting the agenda now. What are SF doing ?

How are the DUP setting the agenda? You are sounding like people did when they were saying how great the DUP were negotiating regarding Brexit. Until people realised that their negotiation tactic was to say no and that was it.

The DUP have made a career out of saying "no". This will continue to work until Others unite against them. A continuing concern is that "the centre" ie alliance/SDLP/UU backed up by the governments , present the problem here as being two sides of the same coin . Which perpetuates DUP influence . SF and DUP are not the same. SF has mellowed and has made significant efforts to continue in government, even returning to government in the absence of Irish language act. They have put many of their republican ideals aside.  In contrast , DUP has been dragged kicking and screaming into power sharing. Any movement towards normalcy and parity of esteem is either resisted or tolerated by "pinching their nose". They promoted brexit and now can't accept its consequences. They facilitate and promote extreme unionism . All this , and the centre ground response is always qualified by a "SF are just as bad" narrative , which lets DUP off the hook again .

Yeah agreed. I don't think anyone who thinks the DUP are running rings round SF understands politics here. Before anyone starts I am not a sinner 

The parity of esteem still has a bit to go yet. Definitely getting there and definitely rubbing some people up the wrong way but if it's not what people are used to that will happen.