Down Club Hurling & Football

[gaaman2016]

Close to £500k was spent on co teams last year. We are effectively throwing money down the drain and spending as if we are going to win the All-Ireland. Would it not be prudent to scale this back for 2to3 years as the players obviously aren't there at the minute. In the mean time focus funding on the youth and sorting out the Burrenbridge fiasco?

[johnneycool]

Close to £500k was spent on co teams last year. We are effectively throwing money down the drain and spending as if we are going to win the All-Ireland. Would it not be prudent to scale this back for 2to3 years as the players obviously aren't there at the minute. In the mean time focus funding on the youth and sorting out the Burrenbridge fiasco?

I'd say that's what the Burns appointment/reappointment and the local lads taking the senior hurlers is. I know the hurling lads aren't in it for the "expenses" like previous management teams.

As for Burrenbridge that's very much a long term thing and won't be resolved over a 5 or 10 year period.

[gaaman2016]

I believe Burrenbridge is due to be paid off in 2027.

In comparsion to Down, Tipperary spent €1m in 2016 and won the All Ireland in hurling at senior and minor and in football their seniors got to the Mumster Final and All Ireland Semi Final.

To run a Minor training session in Down it costs £850 per night. We are throwing money down the drain and the Co Board is to blame.

I understand at the Convention when questions where asked about team expenses, they were told any questions like that should have tabled in advance and they couldn't answer the delegates question. The financial report wasn't shown to delegates in advance so how can they ask a question prior to seeing the details?

[thewobbler]

I believe Burrenbridge is due to be paid off in 2027.

In comparsion to Down, Tipperary spent €1m in 2016 and won the All Ireland in hurling at senior and minor and in football their seniors got to the Mumster Final and All Ireland Semi Final.

To run a Minor training session in Down it costs £850 per night. We are throwing money down the drain and the Co Board is to blame.

I understand at the Convention when questions where asked about team expenses, they were told any questions like that should have tabled in advance and they couldn't answer the delegates question. The financial report wasn't shown to delegates in advance so how can they ask a question prior to seeing the details?

A minor training session will involve:

- hiring a pitch with floodlights (certainly in Feb and March) for a 2 hour slot.
- a physio
- at least 2 minibuses, one heading along the coast, the other up or down the county.
- hot meals for 35-40 people (squad, mgt).

It really doesn't take long to add up to £850. Try cutting corners from it where you want, but you won't be able to.

[snoopdog]

Any truth in Ross Carr being brought into the senior management set up. ? Supposedly it was mentioned on rte news this morning?

[MK]

From the gospel that is the Irish News,Cahir has done his homework on this article,plenty of what must be insider info; I read the Irish News Stateside every night after the children go to bed.Down should enter the Connaught Championship and play us once a year.

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/2017/02/14/news/cahair-o-kane-burns-can-t-be-excused-but-down-s-malaise-runs-much-deeper-931084/

And now Declan Bogue sheds more light on Sunday's shenanigans(albeit with some dodgy details) http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/down-facing-mass-walkout-as-players-lose-faith-in-management-35449381.html

[thewobbler]

Close to £500k was spent on co teams last year. We are effectively throwing money down the drain and spending as if we are going to win the All-Ireland. Would it not be prudent to scale this back for 2to3 years as the players obviously aren't there at the minute. In the mean time focus funding on the youth and sorting out the Burrenbridge fiasco?

This was undoubtedly part of the decision-making process that saw McCorry leave and Burns arrive. When I say "undoubtedly", it's because it's genuinely tough to find other potential reasons.

The problem is that you can't do a county football squad on the cheap. Don't get me wrong, the elite managers will take a bigger brown envelope, and they'll demand a number of other effectively full time salaries.

But at the end of the day, every county team, (even one being run on a budget) needs:

- pitches
- gym facilities
- playing equipment and training equipment
- meeting rooms
- travel expenses / mileage (to and from training)
- match travel expenses (buses, hotels)
- food after every session
- personal equipment (boots, gloves, etc. basically what the GPA demands)
- physios
- strength and conditioning coaches

Any half-serious county team is also going have direct access to video analysts, statisticians and nutritionists. I don't mean Dublin levels of 1-to-1 support, but there is always an entourage needed.

I haven't included costs here for trainers or team liaisons as I'd assume these can be got for relatively little (in comparison to paid physios, etc).

With the entourage on tow, a weekend away has a cost of 45 x (unit price). So it's £10k to go 3-starring in Kildare.

Add all of that up for a 6 month season (Jan-June), and you won't be long shaking a big six-figures from the money tree. And that's just for the senior county team. Not the under 21s, not the minors, or the dev squads. Not hurling.

But here's the problem with "on the cheap". If a county team is struggling, it will also struggle to gain sponsors, and struggle to convince players that it's worth parking their lives for.  The knock-on effect of those things is then passed on from generation to generation.

Giving an extra £30k a year to a man who can coordinate all of the above might actually be a cost saving.

[gaaman2016]

Close to £500k was spent on co teams last year. We are effectively throwing money down the drain and spending as if we are going to win the All-Ireland. Would it not be prudent to scale this back for 2to3 years as the players obviously aren't there at the minute. In the mean time focus funding on the youth and sorting out the Burrenbridge fiasco?

This was undoubtedly part of the decision-making process that saw McCorry leave and Burns arrive. When I say "undoubtedly", it's because it's genuinely tough to find other potential reasons.

The problem is that you can't do a county football squad on the cheap. Don't get me wrong, the elite managers will take a bigger brown envelope, and they'll demand a number of other effectively full time salaries.

But at the end of the day, every county team, (even one being run on a budget) needs:

- pitches
- gym facilities
- playing equipment and training equipment
- meeting rooms
- travel expenses / mileage (to and from training)
- match travel expenses (buses, hotels)
- food after every session
- personal equipment (boots, gloves, etc. basically what the GPA demands)
- physios
- strength and conditioning coaches

Any half-serious county team is also going have direct access to video analysts, statisticians and nutritionists. I don't mean Dublin levels of 1-to-1 support, but there is always an entourage needed.

I haven't included costs here for trainers or team liaisons as I'd assume these can be got for relatively little (in comparison to paid physios, etc).

With the entourage on tow, a weekend away has a cost of 45 x (unit price). So it's £10k to go 3-starring in Kildare.

Add all of that up for a 6 month season (Jan-June), and you won't be long shaking a big six-figures from the money tree. And that's just for the senior county team. Not the under 21s, not the minors, or the dev squads. Not hurling.

But here's the problem with "on the cheap". If a county team is struggling, it will also struggle to gain sponsors, and struggle to convince players that it's worth parking their lives for.  The knock-on effect of those things is then passed on from generation to generation.

Giving an extra £30k a year to a man who can coordinate all of the above might actually be a cost saving.

Appreciate your points wobbler, but when the money isn't there, in my opinion you just don't keeping spending especially when your getting nowhere.

In relation to the team expenses when the clubs asked the Co Board at convention for a breakdown of what the team expenses were for, they were basically told to mind their own business

[wobbller]

From the independent.ie

Down's season threatens to go from bad to worse, with a number of players understood to be considering walking away from Eamonn Burns' squad, following a number of walkouts last week.
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The Mourne county are already in turmoil after losing their opening two National League fixtures, to Fermanagh by nine points and Clare by six; they are bottom of Division 2 with an in-form Meath coming next to Newry.
After the Clare defeat, a number of Kilcoo players did not travel home on the team bus and there is rumour that their actions could be met with punishment.

This follows Thursday night's training session where a player-walkout followed the announcement of the team to play in Ennis.
Turmoil within teams is not unusual, but mid-season heaves are rare. However, it appears that the feeling in Down could be strong enough that stormy days lie ahead for the playing panel, management and county board.

Already, Damian Turley - brother of vice-captain Peter - Ryan Mallon and Gary McMahon have departed the panel, citing dissatisfaction with the management team.
It is understood that the Kilcoo contingent have already consulted with their club manager Paul McIver on whether to remain with the county, with McIver urging them to stay.

The defeat in Ennis also brought an embarrassing scene at half-time with a county board member witnessed having an argument with members of the management team.
Afterwards, while the Clare team went into a huddle on the pitch, the Down players could not be convinced to do the same, making for the dressing-rooms.

The loss on Sunday made it 14 straight defeats for Down in League and Championship, since they beat Laois in a Division 2 fixture on April 5, 2015.
That win brought them back to the top flight under Jim McCorry. However, after that, they lost the Division 2 final to Roscommon, before bowing out of the Ulster Championship with a narrow defeat to Derry, followed by a qualifiers exit to Wexford.

In the ensuing fall-out, the Down county executive recommended to the county board that McCorry and his management team should be voted out. McCorry survived the vote by delegates, but subsequently departed anyway, lamenting the lack of support from the executive.
Despite having plenty of time to choose McCorry's successor, the board only appointed Eamonn Burns on November 5 - without having a backroom team in place.

Since then, Down have gone through arguably their worst run of results, failing to win a single game in Division 1 last year and ending up with the worst scoring difference in all four leagues on minus 60.
In the Ulster Championship, Down slumped to a record defeat in Clones at the hands of Monaghan.

There has also been disquiet among the panel at the treatment of respected players.
Conor Laverty was not recalled after captaining the side in 2015. Mark Poland, considered one of the better forwards in the province, has yet to make a match-day panel of 26. Niall Madine has not been brought back despite showing good form for Queen's in the McKenna Cup.

[SamFever]

From the independent.ie

Down's season threatens to go from bad to worse, with a number of players understood to be considering walking away from Eamonn Burns' squad, following a number of walkouts last week.
SHARE
GO TO
The Mourne county are already in turmoil after losing their opening two National League fixtures, to Fermanagh by nine points and Clare by six; they are bottom of Division 2 with an in-form Meath coming next to Newry.
After the Clare defeat, a number of Kilcoo players did not travel home on the team bus and there is rumour that their actions could be met with punishment.

This follows Thursday night's training session where a player-walkout followed the announcement of the team to play in Ennis.
Turmoil within teams is not unusual, but mid-season heaves are rare. However, it appears that the feeling in Down could be strong enough that stormy days lie ahead for the playing panel, management and county board.

Already, Damian Turley - brother of vice-captain Peter - Ryan Mallon and Gary McMahon have departed the panel, citing dissatisfaction with the management team.
It is understood that the Kilcoo contingent have already consulted with their club manager Paul McIver on whether to remain with the county, with McIver urging them to stay.

The defeat in Ennis also brought an embarrassing scene at half-time with a county board member witnessed having an argument with members of the management team.
Afterwards, while the Clare team went into a huddle on the pitch, the Down players could not be convinced to do the same, making for the dressing-rooms.

The loss on Sunday made it 14 straight defeats for Down in League and Championship, since they beat Laois in a Division 2 fixture on April 5, 2015.
That win brought them back to the top flight under Jim McCorry. However, after that, they lost the Division 2 final to Roscommon, before bowing out of the Ulster Championship with a narrow defeat to Derry, followed by a qualifiers exit to Wexford.

In the ensuing fall-out, the Down county executive recommended to the county board that McCorry and his management team should be voted out. McCorry survived the vote by delegates, but subsequently departed anyway, lamenting the lack of support from the executive.
Despite having plenty of time to choose McCorry's successor, the board only appointed Eamonn Burns on November 5 - without having a backroom team in place.

Since then, Down have gone through arguably their worst run of results, failing to win a single game in Division 1 last year and ending up with the worst scoring difference in all four leagues on minus 60.
In the Ulster Championship, Down slumped to a record defeat in Clones at the hands of Monaghan.

There has also been disquiet among the panel at the treatment of respected players.
Conor Laverty was not recalled after captaining the side in 2015. Mark Poland, considered one of the better forwards in the province, has yet to make a match-day panel of 26. Niall Madine has not been brought back despite showing good form for Queen's in the McKenna Cup.

Madine must have got a transfer from UUJ to Queens
   

[Samforever]

The whole fricking  thing's  cowped I tell ye, cowped

[Smurfy123]

Lots of crazy stuff in today's press and I would say half it made up by the journalists
All these so called big players to come back haven't really set the world alight in a county jersey
Yes we have better players on the bench but these are the same players who didn't win a game last year
Our last competitive win was at home to Laois in early April 2015.A full 22 months
10 league matches
4 championship matches

[whitegoodman]

Down football is currently not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Down has always been a division two team since 08, they got beat in the 2010 league final by Ulster champions ,Armagh and In a few months come September  they were in the all Ireland final. This goes to show us that there is still potential with this x5 winning county and things can be turned around no matter the circumstances. I feel if down Keep their current management and stick to their game plan, Sam maguire will be back in the Mournes sooner rather than later.

😂

[SHEEDY]

Lots of crazy stuff in today's press and I would say half it made up by the journalists
All these so called big players to come back haven't really set the world alight in a county jersey
Yes we have better players on the bench but these are the same players who didn't win a game last year
Our last competitive win was at home to Laois in early April 2015.A full 22 months
10 league matches
4 championship matches

which bits do you reckon are made up? the players on the bench would be starting on everybodys best 'down 15'. these are the same players that have won the last 5 county championships and ran slaughneil close in the ulster final, they are battle hardened and are used to winning at club level. how mark poland, paul devlin and niall madine cant even make the squad is beyond me. nobodys saying we are going to be challenging for ulsters or all irelands but we are better than this.

[Smurfy123]

Fair enough good point
Yes I would also have those 3 on the panel.
Any reason why they were excluded from the match Day squad?
Maybe they are injured or just back onto the squad???