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Can someone please explain to me why people think that a stadium that previously hosted 40k crowds when there was less infrastructure will struggle to cope with a 34k crowd once a year . It has two train stations within a 20 minute walk, and is close to arterial routes and a major hospital . It's less than an hour from most major towns in ulster and just over an hour from Derry and Dublin.
If the second largest city in Ireland can't have a stadium hosting more than 30k , there's something wrong . Many cities with smaller populations and infrastructure have large stadiums. Glasgow though a larger city , has 3 massive stadiums eg  60k plus every other week at Celtic Park at a much more challenging location .
Most people appreciate the concerns of local residents but the infrastructure argument makes little sense to me. The naysayers with a political agenda have been determined to block it from the start, but they are running out of road, literally .

Watch this space . I'm Not convinced that the DUP aren't the ones who are playing smart and end up getting what they want.
Getting people out to vote is a challenge,but  if you play an extreme card , then it can motivate to vote . The danger of softer politics is that it doesn't motivate .
If your position is intransigent, others end up moving to accommodate you , and you can claim victory in your intransigence. This seige mentality can work to your advantage. As we have seen in many occasions .
The final sweetener from the tories to get DUP on board , may be a big payout to boost the NI budget, for which the DUP  can also claim victory , just in time for the polls.
The Tories aren't stupid. There's a real chance that Labour will not secure a majority and the Tories could once again be dependent on DUP votes , and in any event they won't want to anger the ERG section of the party by  hanging the DUP out to dry.

Meantime a SF soft approach might get a few more SDLP votes on board but is unlikely to result in a surge.

There are craftier people than us making the decisions , and history has shown that whatever happens , Tories won't want to kick the DUP in the teeth .

It ain't over  'til it's over

The Tories don't mind shafting the DUP.

They've supported the DUP shafting the rest of us for years, what makes u think they'll find a conscience all of a sudden ?

The DUP shafted Theresa May. So they had to pay

We'll see . Would love  to be proved wrong but think the DUP will get all the help they need when it comes down to it

Watch this space . I'm Not convinced that the DUP aren't the ones who are playing smart and end up getting what they want.
Getting people out to vote is a challenge,but  if you play an extreme card , then it can motivate to vote . The danger of softer politics is that it doesn't motivate .
If your position is intransigent, others end up moving to accommodate you , and you can claim victory in your intransigence. This seige mentality can work to your advantage. As we have seen in many occasions .
The final sweetener from the tories to get DUP on board , may be a big payout to boost the NI budget, for which the DUP  can also claim victory , just in time for the polls.
The Tories aren't stupid. There's a real chance that Labour will not secure a majority and the Tories could once again be dependent on DUP votes , and in any event they won't want to anger the ERG section of the party by  hanging the DUP out to dry.

Meantime a SF soft approach might get a few more SDLP votes on board but is unlikely to result in a surge.

There are craftier people than us making the decisions , and history has shown that whatever happens , Tories won't want to kick the DUP in the teeth .

It ain't over  'til it's over

The Tories don't mind shafting the DUP.

They've supported the DUP shafting the rest of us for years, what makes u think they'll find a conscience all of a sudden ?

Watch this space . I'm Not convinced that the DUP aren't the ones who are playing smart and end up getting what they want.
Getting people out to vote is a challenge,but  if you play an extreme card , then it can motivate to vote . The danger of softer politics is that it doesn't motivate .
If your position is intransigent, others end up moving to accommodate you , and you can claim victory in your intransigence. This seige mentality can work to your advantage. As we have seen in many occasions .
The final sweetener from the tories to get DUP on board , may be a big payout to boost the NI budget, for which the DUP  can also claim victory , just in time for the polls.
The Tories aren't stupid. There's a real chance that Labour will not secure a majority and the Tories could once again be dependent on DUP votes , and in any event they won't want to anger the ERG section of the party by  hanging the DUP out to dry.

Meantime a SF soft approach might get a few more SDLP votes on board but is unlikely to result in a surge.

There are craftier people than us making the decisions , and history has shown that whatever happens , Tories won't want to kick the DUP in the teeth .

It ain't over  'til it's over

Down draw sales are meant to be down this year

I thought it was poorly advertised, I'm not living at home so I wouldn't be directly in contact with the club, but I just got an email on Monday or Tuesday from the county board saying it has to be paid by Friday.

I think they could have sent an email a month ago followed by the most recent one.

The club's draw is a massive success story for DownGAA and Down clubs . Our club can not speak highly enough of those that run this draw within our club and in the county office . James and Mary Mcgrath have taken on an unbelievable  burden in administration of the draw and have made an outstanding contribution  to the county but particularly to individual clubs . This has brought Literally £millions into GAA in the county, and you can still buy online tonight Ardtole if u want.

Paul Flynn moaning on RTE about the ref giving more that allotted injury time to allow Derry kick the winner. Cry me a river.

What was the extra minute for? Most refs would have blown it up with Derry on the ball in their own half with time up

Was stoppages during injury time.

There was a full minute of stoppages in less than four minutes of injury time?

As above . Ref calls "at least .. minutes of injury time", with a few minutes of normal time left. He says "at least" rather than specify because it is impossible to be exact. Within that period fitzsimons cynically "took one for the team". It would have been disappointing to see Fitzsimons rewarded for his cynicism. Farrell and Dublin will learn from this game, and with several players to come back are arguably still the team to beat this year, again

Paul Flynn moaning on RTE about the ref giving more that allotted injury time to allow Derry kick the winner. Cry me a river.

Should it have been 50 secs over?

"At least 4mins injury time", so even if there was no additional injury time,  from the time the ref informed the sideline there was "at least 4 mins". That doesn't mean 4 mins exactly, it could mean up to 4 mins and 59 seconds. Fitzsimons cynical last free and sending off alone ate up considerable time.
Interesting that despite Flynn's complaints about the ref , Dessie Farrell seemed to indicate he was disappointed by his players conceding the frees as opposed to referee. The replay showed them to be stone-wall frees with naive lack of discipline inside 13m.
As a neutral I thought the referee had a great game

I don't think many teams would be struggling.
70% of clubs got some work done this past 10 years and have fully floodlite lights and a second pitch
Kilcoo Clonduff Dromara Ballymartin Mayobridge Burren CPN Bright to name a few
Ballyholland would be struggling from what I hear
A question for wobbler and a genuine one would Ballyholland not have been better to build a wee pitch where the stand is and floodlight it? Is the stand necessary when you could have had a pitch. This is only from someone looking in I could be totally wrong

Would agree with TH, most Gaa clubs have in excess of 10 teams and with hurling camogie and Lgfa all requiring pitch time, there aren't enough hours in the day to accommodate these teams on two pitches never mind one . With drying up of grant funding and difficulty developing a second pitch NMD need to be offering more GAA pitches. In the Downpatrick area the redhigh is unbookable due to demand , and summer closure, and Dunleath now has no GAA pitch. This should be re-provided urgently.

For those that are saying the additional player didn't matter, have a look at the last seconds of the semi against Kerin's O'Rahilly's, Kerin's needed a last second goal to win (or maybe it was to equalise), high ball dropped into the box was flicked on and who was on the goal line to catch the ball and prevent the goal, only the boul Mullin.

Interesting.
There is real possibility that the Mullin staying on and standing on the goal line was not accidental, and therefore the scrutiny and appeal is understandable .

I have no dog in this fight .
KC's super club image(financial strength, numbers strength and star player recruitment) has no relevance. 16 men on the field at a crucial vulnerable time for them , is a clear advantage penalised by rule.
I would ignore Mannion as 17th player , he was nowhere near the play or the line of vision to the goal.

In several years of involvement with the GAA I have never come across an issue with crucial play proceeding before sub went off . Sitting in hogan stand I commented that there seemed to be chaos around KC substitutions in injury time. KC conceded two second half goals ( from a 45, and last kick) into Hill 16 end last year in AI final. They nearly got caught in injury time in this year's AI semi.
Subs at top level are usually pre-organised , Mullins number was up , on PA system, subs board and two big  screens . There is real possibility that he knew exactly what he was doing , by positioning himself on the goal line at a crucial period .
In short:
1. KC recent defensive history indicates a late goal was a real possibility
2. There is real possibility that Mullin staying on was not accidental
3. Rule was contravened (possibly deliberately) to the clear advantage of the winners at a crucial
Period of vulnerability for them
4. There is a clear evidence of this
5. Glen IMO have a duty to their players, management and members to do everything possible to win AI within the rules. This is not unsporting given the above
6. If KC are good enough they'll win the replay 15 v 15

 WhAt is different here is that there is clear video evidence of the extra player, and he had a deterring influence on the attacking team for a set piece that could have won the game. This last attack was stifled partly by weight of the extra numbers . It had a clear material difference on successfully defending that potential match winning attack. The rules were broken and this influenced the match. There is clear evidence of this. There is nothing unsporting about objecting , but there is a chance that KC were unsporting in trying to gain an advantage at a crucial time. Object, hopefully successful appeal and a mouth watering replay. This will turn a PR disaster into PR success

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2023/01/23/news/gaa_won_t_investigate_16th_man_without_a_glen_objection-3013728/

As expected the GAA put the onus onto Glen to lodge an appeal which would very likely be successful. The GAA will be now desperately hoping there is no appeal forthcoming, it will be a long wait before Wednesday.

This boils my piss with the GAA rule book. Why is the onus of the impacted club to appeal when the world and his dog knows there were 16 Crokes players on the field?

Glenn won't want to be in this position either.

I wonder will Croke Park offer the Glen players £300 of vouchers to be quiet like they did the Down hurlers when their CR final was blown up 5 minutes early?

The onus has to be on the objecting club or else the GAA opens itself to a "can of worms".......why should they be expected to go looking for every transgression , if the offended team don't even feel strongly enough about it , to object ?
I don't think anyone should think of Glen as being Unsporting , if they objected. In fact they'd be foolish not to. There's no guarantee they'll ever be back in an All-ireland, it's a tortuous journey. Therefore if there is evidence of clear transgression of the rules, with material influence on the game (this is a very very rare event), they owe it to their players and supporters to object. There's sledging, dangerous play , cynical play which too often is accepted in the GAA, yet a team makes a clear objection in an AI final lost by two points , and the GAA moral compass is all of a sudden pulled out of the hat .
I'm a neutral on this , but IMO , Glen should object, they should win and we'll enjoy a fair crack between two great teams, this Saturday

If the linesman, 4th official or referee was informed by the Glen management team about the player number issue as has been reported, then they should have allowed the 45 to be retaken and for Glen to have another play with the correct numbers on the pitch, would have sorted it out there and then.
If it was just Mannion who wasn't next nor near the play as he was exiting the pitch then there's nothing that should be done but Mullin is absolutely in the middle of it and even if he wasn't near the shot could be said to be affecting the play.
If the precedent is a replay than there should be a replay, although if the referee was informed and it's in the report then does this come under some "dealt with on the day" area?
Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

You don't have to like that the Walsh transfer happened but it's a fact of life, Galway man Michael Day was playing for Na Fianna in the Dublin county final, there was no hubbub about that, purely because he's just another player of the many that has transferred to a city club due to life circumstances.
Shane Walsh is entitled to do whatever he wants with his life, the GAA nor his club at home don't own him. Crokes didn't have to accept him into the club either, I don't see how they are "undermined". If Walsh decided to pack up with Galway and say to Dessie Farrell I'm available for Dublin (don't think Dublin would take him but hypothetically speaking assume they do) then it's entirely up to himself, Galway people would undoubtedly be upset and unhappy but it's his life and it's an amateur game.

If people think the medal will mean nothing to him then that's ok too but do the Larry Tompkins and Shay Fahy wins with Cork mean nothing to them? Does it only mean something if you've been at a place a certain time? Should Fahy return his POTY award because he didn't win it with Kildare?
The high profile of Walsh shouldn't matter, people need to either get serious about this or not, do you want the GAA to stop transfers or put some limitations on transfers to certain clubs? What criteria are you going to place on it? Does it just apply to Dublin or metropolitan areas?
If the issue is "I just don't want Shane Walsh to go to a big club that was a serious AI contender already because it doesn't sit right with me" then that's back into the realm of you don't have to like it but that's life.
If the transfer was illegal that's another issue entirely but the GAA sanctioned it, he working teaching in Dublin classrooms at the minute, what do people actually want? If it's just that it's unfair on other teams in the competition then sure Moycullen were by far the worst offenders of the provincial winners in terms of players that are not from the club. There is no parish rule in Dublin to the best of my knowledge, he could be living anywhere in the city and play for whoever, I know lads who have their sons playing for Vincents and they live nowhere near the club, that's just their family club.

That All Ireland, just like Dublins in the last decade and all of Man City/Chelsea/PSG's trophies will always have a massive asterisks beside it.

Can I ask why the Dublin All Ireland's have an asterisk? You don't have to like Dublin but when it came to playing on the pitch there were as good as I've ever seen. The funding is what it is, the likes of Galway and Cork have been shafted for years on allocations but up to county boards to have a backbone and bring motions to congress to ensure an equal playing field.

A great summation. Agree totally.

Of course Shane Walsh is entitled to do what he wants, and nobody is suggesting that there should be special rules for special players. But club football has many regulations around eligibility eg parish rule, inter county transfers, reserve teams eligibility , sanctions to play for other clubs etc etc. A simple additional rule around not being eligible for championship until the following season , would limit the risk of potential student issues etc.

It actually struck me at the end of the game how chaotic KC's attempts to get subs on was. As neutrals we commented that it was unusual at the time. Also commented that KC had literally everyone back. They got stung last year and were being really stretched by Glen. Their management will have come to the conclusion that they were vulnerable at the end of games. Taking in all these factors, the current in-depth prep and "win-at-all " costs mentality of top teams, it would be a master stroke to try to get extra bodies in the defence at the end . Repelling Glen's final attacks were helped by the crowding , not just physically but the Visual deterrent of numbers back defending and lack of space . Whether this was an incredibly cynical tactic or by accident , it must be seen to be penalised or now many others  will be at it, especially when only the referee officiating . Tbf to KC management another explanation for the chaos could be the rush to get players on the field to keep them sweet with a bit of AI game-time , as they lost their place to "tribesman" Shane Walsh.
I hesitate to be critical of KC as they operate a brilliant club in a challenging environment, but this must be a hollow victory for most club stalwarts. On reflection, They'll be annoyed, no doubt , that it looks like their all-ireland would never have happened if they hadn't have pulled in the second best player in Ireland for a few months. Despite the cries of "Noice peno, ShaneO" , he's not one of their own , and the genuine KC gaels will have their heads in their hands this morning , wondering if it was all worth it.
Not wanting to take away from the great work being done in KC, but the Shane Walsh fiasco dominated the conversation amongst everyone I talked to about the match .."not a good look".
It's no consolation to Glen , but without Shane Walsh , and just 15 opposition players on the pitch they would have been AI champs, by some distance .
Regarding the extra players, if there isn't a rule to heavily penalise this, there should be.

Do you honestly believe that the clubmen of KC will have looked at this win and be annoyed? They seemed very happy at the final whistle

They won't be the slightest bit annoyed. They'll look around the clubhouse at lads they've known since 5 years of age , who are now all Ireland champions. They won't even consider the "why".

Yes MR, on reflection and with hindsight , they'll be wondering could they have done it without parachuting in the second best player in Ireland . Throw in the , probably cynical,  17 defender fiasco as well, it's a hollow victory at best, and their promotional message to their young players and potential members is sullied .
Compare that with Kilcoo, where all players came from the same rural primary school , or indeed the Cliffords winning Junior All-Ireland with Fossa.

The GAA is not like any other sport . It doesn't have an international dimension and there's no "pay for play" , but it retains it's popularity for players , and indeed , is able to punch above it's weight,  because of its ethos. Other sports admire and envy this ethos , and it should not be diluted.
City and large town clubs are advantaged by Weight of numbers , including adults migrating for work. Nobody can stop a Shane Walsh moving to Dublin for work or study , but when they get there, should there not be more regulation  on what club they choose?
St Galls AI team , for example, was bolstered by "outsiders" and good luck to you, it was all within the rules. But this is open to abuse. It would completely destroy the GAA in rural areas if more students transfer to city clubs .
The Shane Walsh scenario has been a major talking point and will leave a sour taste for those players that missed out, not just for loss of game-time , but the feeling that their AI victory is sullied. Craig Dyas , for example, is the outstanding KC player IMO , but nobody's talking about him, they're talking about a Galway freetaker parachuted in for a few months. It's not right , not just for the integrity of the GAA but for undermining the KC club.

And on reflection I've never heard a whisper of discontent within my club, and neither 13 years later has it come up, players move to city's for work and so on, they will either give up and stop playing or find a club that will allow them to play on, its that simple, I don't know any club that would refuse a player as that will also go against what we are about as sporting organisation.

Would we have won An All Ireland without these lads? Who knows. But being a city club I suppose we have seen it over the years and unfortunately the parish 'rules' don't apply, nobody really in the city lives in the parish of their club, the club (well ours) is 113 years old, that part of the city is long gone in relation to members living in that area. I'd say there are 3 parish type clubs in the city, I'd say there would be a lot of clubs in Dublin that have 'outsider's'

Absolutely , I can appreciate there were no whimpers WITHIN the club, and ST Galls did nothing outside the rules. And yes we'd all take county stars looking to join our club. But Tbf SG didn't have 17 players on the field including a parachuted superstar . I accept there are parish rules differences in cities , what I am suggesting is that there needs to be some further regulation to protect the integrity of the competition and the existing members of the city club involved.

[They won't be the slightest bit annoyed. They'll look around the clubhouse at lads they've known since 5 years of age]

They won't be the slightest bit annoyed. They'll look around the clubhouse at lads they've known since 5 years of age, who are now all Ireland champions. They won't even consider the "why".

LMFAO

Look, if it makes you feel better to tell yourself that the members of KC will see this in someway as a hollow victory, then tell yourself that. We can all look from the outside and see that this transfer was a nonsense. We can also make an assessment and say that they wouldn't even have got out of Dublin without this transfer (given that they beat NF by skin of their teeth).
However I can tell you that the members of KC won't give a single damn, and they won't even hear these arguments. They'll be in their own little euphoric bubble. And, they will think exactly as I stated above.

They'll not care. The rest of us will always see the asterisk next to this title but.

Oh , they will care, no matter how much they try. It's not right. KC are not the club they are without having integrity, honesty and fair play in droves , amongst their large membership. I've no doubt these conversations are happening within KC and many will want to be taking the high moral ground on this by engaging with The GAA and Glen on this , to protect the reputation of the club. KC already have AIs, and won't want the stench of this latest dubious one to impact their reputation going forward . PR wise it's been a disaster for them. Even the KC  celebrations in the crowd were muted. I'd be surprised if they don't take the initiative on this , and get it resolved .