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Messages - 6th sam

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1
General discussion / Re: 💩 DUP C*ntwatch - somewhat back on-topic!
« on: January 08, 2022, 11:55:59 AM »
I think Many Hardline unionists voted for brexit, actually wanting a return to a hard border , reinforcing a siege mentality role, in which they thrive. A return to conflict would be another crack at defeating republicanism militarily, and forget about the imposed equality of the GFA, which they never really backed. They come from a tradition of a manufactured comfortable majority, that allowed them to do what they liked, including discriminating against their neighbours. These dinosaur hardliners , best represented by Jim Alister, had a deluded , self obsessed view of brexit , and because their hard border protected “wee country” hasn’t  actually transpired , they’re throwing the toys out of the pram re the protocol. These dinosaurs shouldnt have the weight of numbers to be influential (Jamie’s 167 votes ) , but continue to be relevant only because the BBC give them air time , and moderate unionists continue to give them credibility by joining them in protocol paranoia , or through lack of condemnation.
I think one of the barriers to progress is that unionists fear they will lose their identity in any new arrangements. Any nationalists/republicans I know , respect and value the British identity of their neighbours, and would resist any attempt to treat unionists here, like we were treated. Also to reassure you, Michaelg,  In terms of identity, proud Irish on this island and across the water, haven’t  lost that identity under British rule, despite attempts to disrespect it. Therefore it’s unlikely that unionists will lose their identity in new constitutional arrangements that foster and respect that identity. Time for unionists to “read the room” and embrace new ideas and fresh perspective.



2
General discussion / Re: 💩 DUP C*ntwatch - somewhat back on-topic!
« on: January 08, 2022, 10:02:48 AM »
Exactly, I think all parties on the island and across the water, need to propose realistic alternatives to the status quo, with everything on the table. Tbf the “NI status quo” should also be on that table, in a prominent place , to remind people , that this is one alternative that has been tried and actually bankrolled for 100 years , but definitely hasn’t worked. The protocol protestations for me represent the hypocrisy ,or deliberate dishonesty , of political unionism. The unionists brexiteers actually wanted brexit to return a hard border with ROI, they forgot or didn’t care that the the GFA ethos wasn’t going to let that happen. Now they are objecting about the extra paperwork brought about by their selfishness and unneighbourliness around their support of brexit. Many of those same Unionists have argued for different laws here which make us different from the rest of the UK, but they are getting vexed about an extra bit of paperwork in Stranraer 🧐.  Jeffrey Donaldson and others  want no talk of border poll, unionists show no willingness to change from “Project NI” in any shape or form, but they are trying to stir up protests , at a time when our health and economy has never been under greater threat. Time for fair unionists like yourself , michaelg, to say enough is enough. Prioritise the “now” in terms of health, economy, environment, education, whilst being respectfully receptive to whatever new arrangements will make it better for all of us. Unionism has had 100 years of No, No, no, backed up by UK and EU cash , and  it hasn’t worked. Time for civic unionism to say “enough is enough “ to their politicians.

3
General discussion / Re: 💩 DUP C*ntwatch - somewhat back on-topic!
« on: January 07, 2022, 08:14:36 PM »
I have respected British aspirations all my life , including paying uk taxes and respecting the democratic process which keeps NI in the UK. That’s despite my community being on the receiving end of discrimination. I have unionist  friends and work colleagues and fully respect their identity and aspirations to remain part of the UK. I am happy to look at any realistic constitutional arrangements in these islands which will provide political and economic stability for future generations. I only wish My Irish identity had have been afforded a fraction of that respect . What I will not respect is political unionism remaining wedded to “project NI” ,  when it is the one arrangement which has actually been already tried and has hopelessly failed. The GFA afforded political unionism the opportunity to make this place work, but they remained begrudging and ungenerous , and presided over further decline. We are facing arguably the biggest challenge in the history of this planet never mind these islands, and political unionism is focussing on the protocol🙈, another convenient smokescreen for their political failures on real issues. Despite a ridiculously lobsided head start in 1921 and being heavily subsidised by the UK (though all UK regions continue to be shafted by the South of England elite) , NI scores increasingly  poorly on most parameters.
Are reasonable unionists such as yourself not embarrassed by these clowns , who purport to look after your interests,  “playing the fiddle as Rome burns”.
The Unionists I know , are angered by their politician‘s focus on the protocol, not the protocol itself, which many see as an opportunity.
Doug Beattie who has many worthy qualities , wants nationalists to buy into “making NI great” , but he’s not prepared to countenance an alternative to the constitutional position of NI. Unionism surely should be about stabilising British links and identity for future generations as opposed to a delusional view that NI status quo remains a runner. Like most nationalists I’ve had enough of “NI” and what it stands for. I hope for a better constitutional arrangement for all, but tbh like everyone i know , unionist and nationalist , I am too busy with the realities of life to worry about the protocol 🙈
A country's economic performance can ebb and flow over time.  The ROI being a case in point over the last 100 years.  As you rightly point out, embracing the protocol could have big economic benefits for NI down the line.
As for your comment in bold above, I would have thought that it was fairly obvious that the best way for Unionism to stabilise British links and identity would be by remaining within the union.
Clearly not, they’ve had 100 years to stabilise British links within NI , and it’s getting less stable by the day. What amazes me about unionists is that they’ve expected nationalists to “suck it up” for years regarding the current constitutional arrangements but even though their manufactured majority is gone , they’re not prepared to “suck up” any alternative to a failed project NI . For example, There are several constitutional arrangements short of binary sovereignty, I’d be prepared (out of respect for unionists ) to look at , which are  short of my preferred 32 county republic. Imho Unionists would need to start countenancing an alternative to NI status quo, whilst they are in a position to maximise their influence. The more they rail against the more they lose respect , including amongst many of their community who are fed up with the primacy of constitutional issues.

4
General discussion / Re: 💩 DUP C*ntwatch - somewhat back on-topic!
« on: January 07, 2022, 06:34:30 PM »
The election has started in earnest this week and it's sickening my hole to be honest.

"Nationalists have infiltrated the professional classes"

"You have a UDR book in your Zoom background"

It's going to be a long few months!!!

Comedy gold listening to Jim Wells on drive time.
   QUB is a cold house for young prospective law studying Unionists. When pressed on why it boiled down to there being too many GAA tops and Irish language signs about the place.
   Too many fenians around by the sounds of it.
BAT SHIT crazy is the boul Jim.

😂 “Queen’s“ university Being a cold house for unionists because young adults are allowed to wear their team colours, an academic institution promotes indigenous language,  and the RUC band don’t play GSTQ at graduation. I’m glad he never went to Cardiff university ( Prifysgol Caerdydd) he’d have been traumatised by all the welsh rugby jerseys 🙈. Jim literally has no understanding or attempt to understand the mindset of ?80% of his constituents in South Down, but again the BBC gives him disproportionate airtime.

5
General discussion / Re: 💩 DUP C*ntwatch - somewhat back on-topic!
« on: January 07, 2022, 06:27:06 PM »
I have respected British aspirations all my life , including paying uk taxes and respecting the democratic process which keeps NI in the UK. That’s despite my community being on the receiving end of discrimination. I have unionist  friends and work colleagues and fully respect their identity and aspirations to remain part of the UK. I am happy to look at any realistic constitutional arrangements in these islands which will provide political and economic stability for future generations. I only wish My Irish identity had have been afforded a fraction of that respect . What I will not respect is political unionism remaining wedded to “project NI” ,  when it is the one arrangement which has actually been already tried and has hopelessly failed. The GFA afforded political unionism the opportunity to make this place work, but they remained begrudging and ungenerous , and presided over further decline. We are facing arguably the biggest challenge in the history of this planet never mind these islands, and political unionism is focussing on the protocol🙈, another convenient smokescreen for their political failures on real issues. Despite a ridiculously lobsided head start in 1921 and being heavily subsidised by the UK (though all UK regions continue to be shafted by the South of England elite) , NI scores increasingly  poorly on most parameters.
Are reasonable unionists such as yourself not embarrassed by these clowns , who purport to look after your interests,  “playing the fiddle as Rome burns”.
The Unionists I know , are angered by their politician‘s focus on the protocol, not the protocol itself, which many see as an opportunity.
Doug Beattie who has many worthy qualities , wants nationalists to buy into “making NI great” , but he’s not prepared to countenance an alternative to the constitutional position of NI. Unionism surely should be about stabilising British links and identity for future generations as opposed to a delusional view that NI status quo remains a runner. Like most nationalists I’ve had enough of “NI” and what it stands for. I hope for a better constitutional arrangement for all, but tbh like everyone i know , unionist and nationalist , I am too busy with the realities of life to worry about the protocol 🙈

6
General discussion / Re: 💩 DUP C*ntwatch - somewhat back on-topic!
« on: January 07, 2022, 03:51:11 PM »
I think you’re right on ignoring that childish prank from Jim.

It’s a bit like Sammy Wilson’s childish antics / sound bites , as job losses , health concerns and paramilitarism abound under his watch in South Antrim .
What amazes me is how the unionist community has not woken up to these chancers, who have made a career  (in safe constituencies ) of political stagnation , bigotry and schoolyard humour, when you would think they should be trying to make this place work. It’s ironic that the parties least wedded to  NI as an entity , are actually the ones trying hardest to make it work at the minute ,  whilst unionism including Doug Beattie , can’t grow up about the protocol and concentrate on the real challenges around the economy, environment, education and health. That’s why NI can never work. Beattie is a significant challenge to those of us who want a united Ireland . His military history gives him kudos among hardline unionists, he’s PR savvy and is evidently getting some of the more gullible middle of the roaders onside .  The reality is he still won’t countenance anything other than “Project NI: the next 100 years”. Will he stand with, or stand up to hardliners ? Will he fully respect Irish identity and aspirations? will he fully condemn atrocities and discrimination from the British armed forces? Will he still want  to dictate to GAA clubs what colours they use?  It’s a sad reflection on unionism that Doug Beattie is perceived as  the softest unionist they’ve ever produced , and yet he still doesn’t get the Irish psyche here. That said, I think the likes of himself, Swann, Aitken are keen to work for the greater good , and a stronger middle ground , isolating the unionist dinosaur brigade , is the secret to a better island for all of us. The most significant thing for me is the numbers involved in the protocol protests are tiny compared to the discredited flag protests of only a few years ago, and completely dwarfed by the Anglo-Irish agreement protests of the 80s. Many unionists are embarrassed by Jamie and Jim , and Stephen Nolan’s promotion of These two , is doing no harm to the cause of a united ireland .



7
General discussion / Re: 💩 DUP C*ntwatch - somewhat back on-topic!
« on: January 07, 2022, 11:58:39 AM »
The election has started in earnest this week and it's sickening my hole to be honest.

"Nationalists have infiltrated the professional classes"

"You have a UDR book in your Zoom background"

It's going to be a long few months!!!

I think one of the issues here is many real concerns get branded into them and us, “two 6s”, ones as bad as the other.

Such an approach trivialises both comments above for example.

Kate Hoey makes a ridiculously paranoid comment which betrays her ingrained partisan views.

Mailiosa mchugh challenges the prominent product placement of a book on the UDR in a zoom meeting, which should be a neutral environment, and is ridiculed for bringing this up . This wasn’t a background book shelf, and it was obvious and childishly provocative by JIm. Most of us would probably have ignored this , as recommended with attention seeking behaviour, but the “neutral” chair of the committee chose to ridicule Maoliosa , and proudly boast how he had the same book in his library -about an ignominious regiment that was disbanded and viewed with disdain by many of the people he is supposed to represent.(and Steve Aitken is one of the fairest unionists tbh)

Part of the reason for lack of progress here is that behaviour that would be viewed as unthinkable in most civilised societies is passed as normal here, and not only that , but those that call it out are then lazily branded as “the other side of the same coin “

8
General discussion / Re: 💩 DUP C*ntwatch - somewhat back on-topic!
« on: January 07, 2022, 10:26:29 AM »
The educated thing is laughable. A massive problem with education and the “pul” community is that there are large areas where protestants would have walked into factory jobs with no education. There was never an incentive. Now that is not the case and no education equals significantly less chance of a job. The having it easy thing is coming back to roost. (East Belfast a prime example and it is now overrun by paramilitaries- if youth got educated rather than joined up with these scum they would stand a chance).

Your man Bryson is getting some airtime. It’s been a nationalist “plot” to get educated  ;D

The problem for some people is equality. Now there is some it doesn’t sit well.

Oh and hoey is a poisonous witch.

Unionist politicians have consistently failed their own people. The DUP have traditionally had far more professionally educated elected representatives than any other party yet they have done nothing to help alleviate the class/educational divide between those from working class areas and the middle class. It is a very interesting debate that should really shine a light on the DUP and the failure to serve their own people and voter base. 

But the way it has been presented by Hoey, Bryson and the Newsletter is that it is all Catholics fault. The fact that the loudest voices in Unionism at the moment appear to be the likes of Hoey, Bryson, Allister and Lowry tell you all you need to know about the leadership void and ongoing crisis within unionism. And most of it all self inflicted as they go further and further down the rabbit hole of alienating the middle ground.
 
Unionism never replaced the well paid working jobs that went to working class Protestants in the old industries . Maybe ignorant loyalists are easier to manipulate. This is a structural problem going back at least 50 years.

Education was the only thing the security forces could not take away from nationalists. Today, social mobility on the Protestant side is much worse because of the lack of education. Thatcherism also hurt. UK regions were neglected. NI got money post Troubles but very little investment.
A United Ireland would probably be better money-wise for Loyalists. At least they wouldn't be ignored. NI potentially has a lot of upside under the right management.


As well as the manufacturing industries’ demise, you’ve had changes in farming , and the shrinking  of security personnel and infrastructures , which have reduced employment opportunities for the PUL working class . Those in PUL who qualified for third level education were more likely to look across the water, because of either a greater affinity , lesser grades, or a sense of hopelessness for a future here as a unionist ( in the case of many , an embarrassment over the ethos and antics of political unionism) . The schools’ academic achievement tables tend to be dominated by Catholic schools.
The other important point is that entry to third level is purely based on objective academic achievement, as opposed to alleged questionable entry into security and industry jobs in the past. All that in addition to demographic change , and guess what you have more fenians in Queens🤦🏻‍♂️. Kate Hoey is actually stating the obvious , though it’s laughable to think that she feels that “Caoimhe from Poleglass “ is doing law at Queens to harness nationalist political advantage , as opposed working hard to seize opportunities that her parents weren’t afforded .
Unionist leadership has been asleep at the wheel for years. They thought the entitlement and privilege they enjoyed was going to go on forever. They have often been unwilling unenthusiastic participants in a process of change to a normal equal society. Even now they have a chance to show a generosity of spirit for a better future, but many still want it wholly their own way. What really amazes me is that they seem to favour to clinging on to the last pathetic  vestiges of power and entitlement for a few years,  more than brokering for a better place for their future generations. It seems to many that They are selfish in the extreme: they know there’ll be a United island , but it won’t be on their watch and they won’t make it easy for those “pesky fenians “ in the meantime. Pathetic lack of leadership which is selling their next generation short but also holding up progress for all of us in what will be a challenging future for health, economy and the environment.

9
General discussion / Re: Death Notices
« on: January 06, 2022, 09:18:25 AM »
A personal one this time... my niece who was born prematurely died aged 20 days 4 weeks ago tomorrow. She fought until the end but it wasn't enough.

Luckily for her parents and us all, she has a twin sister who is doing well, still in hospital though.

She'll still be missed by all.
That is so sad. One of my cousins had a twin who died shortly after birth.
Very very sad , to lose a child, condolences .

10
General discussion / Re: China Coronavirus
« on: December 18, 2021, 07:36:10 PM »
I’m going to preface these comments with the caveat that today a family member died of Covid. I have also spent most of the last three weeks in hospital for non Covid reasons.

The impact of the vaccine on spread is not a zero sum game. Just because it doesn’t stop you becoming infected doesn’t mean it has made no difference. The pattern of rapid growth pre and post vaccine has confirmed that.

The idea of either only vaccinating the vulnerable or of only locking them down is scary to me. Firstly it would be largely ineffective giving the interconnected world we live in. During the lockdown I was shielding. I only went out to go to the shops. An unchecked virus running wild would still have presented a huge risk to me even with my shielding because of the number of contacts I would still have when shielding be that with other shoppers, the shop assistant or delivery drivers etc. With an unchecked virus the chances of me encountering a +ve contact would have been greatly increased. That is something that would be factored into modelling but seems to have gone unconsidered by those who advocate only locking up the vulnerable.

The second issue with only vaccinating the vulnerable is that society as a whole and health care in particular simply would not have been able to cope. Not just from the increase in patients but also from the staff shortages that would have happened as medical professionals had to take time off work to tend to themselves.

It’s a similar rationale to why low risk groups are still encouraged to get vaccinated.  There are likely little benefit to them individually but the benefit to society is great.

If there are sensible alternatives out there I’m more than willing to hear them but provide imperial evidence for them. Provide experts advocating them through peer review research. Don’t provide YouTube videos from non experts providing inaccurate or misinformed theories based on easily debunked ‘evidence’. Otherwise stop wasting time.

Enough said, very well articulated intelligent analysis. Sorry for your loss David and very best wishes for your recovery .

11
Down / Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« on: December 17, 2021, 11:11:01 PM »
Great win for the Red High this evening.Good start to the weekend.Ballycran and Kilcoo to complete the treble.

Massive achievement. I don’t think many saw this coming . Delighted for the Redhigh who have strongly promoted gaelic games over the years. Best of luck to Ballycran and kilcoo

12
Down / Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« on: December 06, 2021, 10:59:37 AM »


We played St Marks in the Down U16.5 vocational final back in the day. got an absolute walloping in Liatroim IIRC and I scored our only score, a goal I might add. Liam Howlett was the star for them back then.. They went on the win the AI that year.

We'd beaten LaSalle Downpatrick and St Louie's Kilkeel on our way to the final and only one of our team played club football for Kilclief, the rest the only time they played football was at school PE. I don't even think we trained after school back then.
We'd an Allstar at midfield for us though.  ;)

Legs was some soccer player too!  I remember Kilclief playing the Crans in football way back when, I imagine when Greg Blaney transferred to Carryduff that was the beginning of the end of their football team.

We always benefitted from some great footballers coming across the shuck to play minor football for us, many of whom went onto play senior county hurling (when the hurlers were a decent side)! It was only ever a sideline for them though and mostly because a few of our boys were classmates of theirs in St Columbas.

I think there was a county bye law at one stage were the Ports had to field a football team in the minor championship every year, not sure what that was about.

My oul fella taught in Ballyphillip and Noddy, Hunter and those boys were in his P7 class. Best football team he ever had he maintains to this day!!    ;D

Noddy was meant to be a decent footballer, played U21 championship for Down on the recommendation of his PE teacher in the Red High even though he'd left the school three or four years previous, the hunter I just couldn't image having that bit of subtlety needed with a big ball, a coarse Christian irrespective of the code and maybe three or four years older than Noddy, so your oul fella might be a bit mistaken.

Was talking to one of the red high players last night and he didn't even know that his manager played U21 hurling for Down back in the day and won an Ulster U21 before getting hammered in Fingal by Tipp U21's  featuring Conal Bonnar and John Leahy..
[/quote]
Danny Hughes was also an outstanding footballer with Ballycran. Would have been county standard if circumstances allowed

13
Down / Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« on: December 04, 2021, 12:32:43 PM »
Massive result for redhigh last in qualifying for first ever Mageean final. Great to see a Down school in a senior A final. Mainly Portaferry and ballygalget lads but liatroim Castlewellan Carryduff ballycran and Drumaness also represented on the squad.
Hurling definitely on the rise on many levels throughout the county , a lot of good work being done in schools and clubs .

14
General discussion / Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« on: November 14, 2021, 05:51:28 PM »
cannot compare irish soccer players brought up in england from irish families with the rugby situation.

if the soccer side start turning out brasil, argentina etc rejects then you could argue that it's the same  ::)

So Grealish, who hurled and played Gaelic football as a youngster, even played for Ireland youth soccer, those brought up in Irish families in England? Are they the ones you’re talking about?

What's yoir point here? He is diaspora, clearly has two national identities. He was happy to develop as part of the Irish youth setup but unfortunately the commercial reality hit and was driven home by his agent who regrets another player in Bale sticking with Wales. You win some you lose some.

It's ludicrous and racist to label kids born in England or Scotland to Irish parents who chose to play for Ireland as 'plastics'.  Outrageous and on a GAA board?

Loads of people born in England perceive themselves as Irish. James Lowe evidently doesn’t perceive himself as Irish . Rugby will finish as a sport if it continues to shoot itself in the foot. New Zealand, pacific islands and arguably Wales are the only countries where it’s the major sport. If rugby is trying to compete for hearts and minds in other countries, it’s going to have to regain some credibility. James Lowe is a great player and good luck to him in availing of the rules , but his interview yesterday exposing the farce that international rugby has become. Genuinely embarrassing

15
General discussion / Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« on: November 14, 2021, 10:20:41 AM »
What a nightmare scenario for Irish rugby . They put in perhaps their best performance in history and their hero comes up with a totally embarrassing car crash interview . More NZ players than ulster/Munster/ Connacht if I’m not mistaken 🤦🏻‍♂️
Simon Zebo a generational star , wasn’t allowed to play for his country because he made a decision to leave these shores for work.
A diaspora player, or Irish born player playing for London Irish can’t play.
Iconic teams like Ulster and Munster, aren’t developing their academy players as they can’t get a place on a team loaded with travelling professionals”
 
And some are Countering this farcical situation by insulting diaspora players who play for Irish soccer team. There are loads of diaspora players in England brought up in families who are proudly Irish. Given that we lost many of our best people to emigration, we should welcome their offspring if they want to play for ireland . That’s different to a Cj Stander who fulfils his professional obligation with distinction , for his irfu employers, then takes his money and runs back to his real country ( and fair play to him).
Ireland is now a professional club team with residency being the only criteria both to qualify and to be blocked from playing.


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