The SDLP

[Armagh18]

It'd be hilarious to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth from SF supporters if unionists refused to take their seats in a united Ireland parliament and refused to engage with the institutions of a united Ireland state they didn't want to engage with, such as, say, the Gardai

Or if they were to, say, plant bombs

If that's what they want to do let them at it...

[Armagh18]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

I'd say SF would lose at least half their votes in the North if they ever dreamt about swearing allegiance to the crown.

[sid waddell]

It'd be hilarious to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth from SF supporters if unionists refused to take their seats in a united Ireland parliament and refused to engage with the institutions of a united Ireland state they didn't want to engage with, such as, say, the Gardai

Or if they were to, say, plant bombs

If that's what they want to do let them at it...

I don't think we should "let them at it" and plant bombs

[sid waddell]

List of SF's accomplishments in Dáil Eireann:

...

End of list.

Invented four fictional brothers from Cavan who survived the collapse of the World Trade Centre

[sid waddell]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

I'd say SF would lose at least half their votes in the North if they ever dreamt about swearing allegiance to the crown.

Yeah, they'd defect to...em...em...em...

[Eamonnca1]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

I'd say SF would lose at least half their votes in the North if they ever dreamt about swearing allegiance to the crown.

So the other half of SF voters are "bootlickers" who'd be okay with it? Gawd. There's a lot of "bootlickers" about, isn't there?

[Snapchap]

List of SF's accomplishments in Dáil Eireann:

...

End of list.

OK so lets get this straight, you argued that it is important to take Westminster seats. So when I asked you to give examples of what the SDLP have done/influenced/achieved in the House of Commons, your answer is just "but whatabout"? 

Even aside from the desperation of the "but whatabout", its not grounded in facts. SF TDs have often had legistaltion that has made it through the Dáil (eg https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/55611)

So have another wee crack at the SDLP in the Commons question.


EDIT:

The SDLP's abstentionist policy from the Dáil is what's long past is sell-by date, if you ask me. As is FFFG's abstentist policy from the north. (Saying as they are the ones that like to shout loudest about SF and abstentionism).

[yellowcard]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

Presumably you think the SNP shouldn't take their seats so

That's a matter for them, I'm not bothered what they do in Scotland. I'm realistic about what Irish MPs can achieve in Westminster. SF would have absolutely no impact on British government policy, the right wing English media would go to town on them anyway

The rationale was put out about why SF shouldn't take their seats

That rationale can't be put forward to justify SF not sitting and then arbitrarily withdrawn for another separatist party

The rationale either applies to both or it applies to neither

Plaid Cymru have four seats I think

Presumably they shouldn't bother sitting in Westminster

I'd be fairly ambivalent about whether they (SF) should take their seats on historical grounds although I understand why they wouldn't. I'd consider a more pragmatic approach and question whether they could derive any benefits from doing so. I severely doubt it.

In my opinion it is just a stick for SF detractors to beat them with. Logically I don't see what they can achieve through Westminster.

If there's a Tory majority, what can anybody else achieve?

What can Labour achieve?

Should Labour take their seats?

Because the same rationale that says SF shouldn't take their seats is the same rationale for anybody not in government not sitting

The Green Party has one MP, Caroline Lucas

And she is very effective at spreading her message

You're failing to factor in the fact that this is SF we are dealing with here and all the connotations that this would induce in English political circles were they to be seen to have any influence on British government policy. I think you know perfectly well that there is a huge difference, you are just looking for an argument for the sake of it.

[yellowcard]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

The DUP squeezed £1 billion out of Theresa May, did they not?

That was due to a rare case of the numbers falling in the DUP's favour. Even if that happened and lets say SF held the balance of power, then if you seriously think any British party, let alone the Tory party, would enter into a government arrangement with them then you are deluded. Even the DUP garnered front page negative English tabloid headlines for some of their racist, bigoted homophobic views when their suitability for government was being scrutinised. Could you imagine the outcry where such a situation existed with SF. I shouldn't even need to explain this. 

[imtommygunn]

I'm no expert but have read there was a good bit of smoke and mirrors surrounding that 1 billion. For example can anyone tell us where the 1 billion went? By all accounts a good sum of it was money they'd already promised us here anyway so really we didn't see 1 billion or even next to near it.

[Angelo]

List of SF's accomplishments in Dáil Eireann:

...

End of list.

https://www.thejournal.ie/dail-passes-rent-freeze-bill-4930625-Dec2019/

https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/52273

A few from recent years and they will be able to do a lot more going forward.

You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about SF.

[johnnycool]

I'm no expert but have read there was a good bit of smoke and mirrors surrounding that 1 billion. For example can anyone tell us where the 1 billion went? By all accounts a good sum of it was money they'd already promised us here anyway so really we didn't see 1 billion or even next to near it.

Yip,
It was "repackaged" by the Tory's mostly money we were already going to get and a little bit extra for Arlene and Co to sell it as a good news story which they've dined out on for the last few years alright.

[imtommygunn]

Yeah exactly -  plus it was pretty much blackmail on a very very rare occasion where the tories needed somewhere from here.

[Applesisapples]

Colum of Stopping Brexit fame saying Unionists leader much do better in light of the recent violence.

Maybe Colum would be better looking at his own little political stunt and the role it has in kicking things off.

The SDLP have been badly exposed in the past week.

Totally agree. SDLP have contributed a lot over the years, but current strategy from leadership seems focussed on rivalry with SF above all else, thereby often letting unionism
Off the hook. "Nationalist/republican" political parties here haven't done well in recent years. Demographics indicate that there should be an increasing "N/R" vote but in fact SF seem to have lost voters to SDLP and SDLP lost voters to a resurgent alliance , and as a result the "N/R" vote hasn't effectively increased. I think SF will only increase their vote by attracting voters back from SDLP. Most republicans will remain loyal to SF, so there's not many more votes there, but SF will have to perform better in terms of formulating and selling a strategy for a UI, and continue to soften to attract SDLP voters , and/or be "more acceptable " for coalition, north and south. IMHO regardless of their rationale behind the IRA campaign , there has to be more contrition and remorse for the hurt caused, if SF are serious about securing their status as main party north/south.

Thats a fair assessment.

[Angelo]

I wouldn't agree that SF have lost voters to the SDLP at all.

They grew their vote in the last assembly election. They went down in the Westminister elections but SF run on an abstentionist ticket so their vote drive is never as strong as it is on an Assembly election. It was also notable the context in Brexit and bombastic claims made by Eastwood and how he would stop Brexit.

I expect SF will probably stay steady in the next Assembly election whereas the SDLP could be in for a rude awakening.

The big issue is how will unionism hold up, will the TUV run more candidates and can they tap into the discontent with the UUP/SDLP now.