The SDLP

[Snapchap]

Plus abstention is well past its sell by date.

Would you like to see FF & FG organise in the north? Would you like to see them sitting in westminster?

You see, you might yearn for Irish people getting their bums of the green benches, but personally I would argue that the very notion of Irish MPs sitting in westminster is what's long past it's sell by date. SF stand in elections promising to abstain and people overwhelmingly back them on that basis.

Take down Parnell's statue then. Re-name O'Connell St back to Sackville St. They took their seats, didn't they?

Different times....

SF's abstentionism policy was inspired by the Hungarian revolution of 1848 and their first abstentionist candidate stood in 1908. Times have changed a bit since then, wouldn't you say?

When you hear a SF rep explaining that they are abstaining from Westminster because of the Hungarian Revolution of 1848, then, and only then, should you come on here and use that as your argument.

Abstentionism is based on pretending that the British parliament has no jurisdiction in Ireland and can just be ignored, a position that SF adopted in 1908 and rejected in 1998 when they signed up to the Good Friday Agreement.

Declan Kearney was out here a few years back making that point, that as far as SF is concerned "Westminster is irrelevant." A few minutes later he was moaning about how the DUP had so much influence on Theresa May's government because of the electoral math at Westminster.

Abstentionism makes no sense in this day and age. You know it, I know it, and everybody in SF knows it.

And how did the DUP "influence" at Westminster work out for them?

When your arguments include references to the 1848 Hungarian Revolution, and loony notions that not even some, not most, but "everyone" in SF actually disagrees with abstentionism, then you're clutching at straws.

How have the stoops been getting on with making waves in westminster? What have they achieved? They swung many big votes lately?

The SDLP would have had more influence in Westminster if SF would get out of the way and let them have a clear run at some Westminster seats, instead of the usual thing of pulling symbolic stunts like standing in an election for the craic and then not taking their seats.

Lol! For years he SDLP had MPs when SF had none. So what did they achieve in any of those years? What major votes did they sway the results of?

Lol! What have the SDLP ever done for me?

I'll assume you are an adult and understand the debate that was going on (the idea that it is possible for an Irish nationalist party to wield influence in the House of Commons) and being an adult, that you'll no doubt understand that one way to examine the theory is to look at the westminster track record of the party about which this thread is the focus of.

But mayve you're just thick as sh*t.

I'm sure the Unionists will feel the same if they had to enter the Dall, no wonder they are worried

The difference being that unionists in the Dáil will routinely hold much more proportionally significant and influential numbers than they or the SDLP ever will at Westminster.

They'll have no leverage, just like the SDLP have, even when they had more MPs

The parliament where unionism would have most influence would be the one where they would routinely hold the greatest proportion of seats - the Dáil.

[yellowcard]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

[yellowcard]

It'd be hilarious to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth from SF supporters if unionists refused to take their seats in a united Ireland parliament and refused to engage with the institutions of a united Ireland state they didn't want to engage with, such as, say, the Gardai

Or if they were to, say, plant bombs

Absolutely hilarious!

[sid waddell]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

Presumably you think the SNP shouldn't take their seats so

[Milltown Row2]

It'd be hilarious to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth from SF supporters if unionists refused to take their seats in a united Ireland parliament and refused to engage with the institutions of a united Ireland state they didn't want to engage with, such as, say, the Gardai

Or if they were to, say, plant bombs

Absolutely hilarious!

Hilarious, planting bombs?

[trueblue1234]

It'd be hilarious to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth from SF supporters if unionists refused to take their seats in a united Ireland parliament and refused to engage with the institutions of a united Ireland state they didn't want to engage with, such as, say, the Gardai

Or if they were to, say, plant bombs

It would be equally interesting to see how the UK would treat the Unionists left in a UI. I would like to think they would keep an interest in their well-being and if there was mistreatment they would feel obligated to be involved. I'll be honest, as bad as they are, I couldn't see them turning a blind eye.

[yellowcard]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

Presumably you think the SNP shouldn't take their seats so

That's a matter for them, I'm not bothered what they do in Scotland. I'm realistic about what Irish MPs can achieve in Westminster. SF would have absolutely no impact on British government policy, the right wing English media would go to town on them anyway

[yellowcard]

It'd be hilarious to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth from SF supporters if unionists refused to take their seats in a united Ireland parliament and refused to engage with the institutions of a united Ireland state they didn't want to engage with, such as, say, the Gardai

Or if they were to, say, plant bombs

Absolutely hilarious!

Hilarious, planting bombs?

That was blatant sarcasm at a ridiculous post.

[sid waddell]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

Presumably you think the SNP shouldn't take their seats so

That's a matter for them, I'm not bothered what they do in Scotland. I'm realistic about what Irish MPs can achieve in Westminster. SF would have absolutely no impact on British government policy, the right wing English media would go to town on them anyway

The rationale was put out about why SF shouldn't take their seats

That rationale can't be put forward to justify SF not sitting and then arbitrarily withdrawn for another separatist party

The rationale either applies to both or it applies to neither

Plaid Cymru have four seats I think

Presumably they shouldn't bother sitting in Westminster

[yellowcard]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

Presumably you think the SNP shouldn't take their seats so

That's a matter for them, I'm not bothered what they do in Scotland. I'm realistic about what Irish MPs can achieve in Westminster. SF would have absolutely no impact on British government policy, the right wing English media would go to town on them anyway

The rationale was put out about why SF shouldn't take their seats

That rationale can't be put forward to justify SF not sitting and then arbitrarily withdrawn for another separatist party

The rationale either applies to both or it applies to neither

Plaid Cymru have four seats I think

Presumably they shouldn't bother sitting in Westminster

I'd be fairly ambivalent about whether they (SF) should take their seats on historical grounds although I understand why they wouldn't. I'd consider a more pragmatic approach and question whether they could derive any benefits from doing so. I severely doubt it.

In my opinion it is just a stick for SF detractors to beat them with. Logically I don't see what they can achieve through Westminster.

[sid waddell]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

Presumably you think the SNP shouldn't take their seats so

That's a matter for them, I'm not bothered what they do in Scotland. I'm realistic about what Irish MPs can achieve in Westminster. SF would have absolutely no impact on British government policy, the right wing English media would go to town on them anyway

The rationale was put out about why SF shouldn't take their seats

That rationale can't be put forward to justify SF not sitting and then arbitrarily withdrawn for another separatist party

The rationale either applies to both or it applies to neither

Plaid Cymru have four seats I think

Presumably they shouldn't bother sitting in Westminster

I'd be fairly ambivalent about whether they (SF) should take their seats on historical grounds although I understand why they wouldn't. I'd consider a more pragmatic approach and question whether they could derive any benefits from doing so. I severely doubt it.

In my opinion it is just a stick for SF detractors to beat them with. Logically I don't see what they can achieve through Westminster.

If there's a Tory majority, what can anybody else achieve?

What can Labour achieve?

Should Labour take their seats?

Because the same rationale that says SF shouldn't take their seats is the same rationale for anybody not in government not sitting

The Green Party has one MP, Caroline Lucas

And she is very effective at spreading her message

[Eamonnca1]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

The DUP squeezed £1 billion out of Theresa May, did they not?

[Eamonnca1]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

Presumably you think the SNP shouldn't take their seats so

That's a matter for them, I'm not bothered what they do in Scotland. I'm realistic about what Irish MPs can achieve in Westminster. SF would have absolutely no impact on British government policy, the right wing English media would go to town on them anyway

The rationale was put out about why SF shouldn't take their seats

That rationale can't be put forward to justify SF not sitting and then arbitrarily withdrawn for another separatist party

The rationale either applies to both or it applies to neither

Plaid Cymru have four seats I think

Presumably they shouldn't bother sitting in Westminster

I'd be fairly ambivalent about whether they (SF) should take their seats on historical grounds although I understand why they wouldn't. I'd consider a more pragmatic approach and question whether they could derive any benefits from doing so. I severely doubt it.

In my opinion it is just a stick for SF detractors to beat them with. Logically I don't see what they can achieve through Westminster.

If there's a Tory majority, what can anybody else achieve?

What can Labour achieve?

Should Labour take their seats?

Because the same rationale that says SF shouldn't take their seats is the same rationale for anybody not in government not sitting

The Green Party has one MP, Caroline Lucas

And she is very effective at spreading her message

For their next trick the SF fanboys will lambast the SNP as being "bootlickers" and "not real Scots" because they take their Westminster seats.

[Eamonnca1]

I don't know which is worse. The SF supporters who slavishly follow the party or the anti SF brigade who slate them for absolutely everything. I'd be fairly certain that most nationalists never mind republicans in the north are none too bothered about taking seats in Westminster.

Anybody thinking that a few Irish MPs will exert any influence on British government policy needs to keep taking the Kool Aid. In fact it could be counter productive in the case of SF.

Presumably you think the SNP shouldn't take their seats so

That's a matter for them, I'm not bothered what they do in Scotland. I'm realistic about what Irish MPs can achieve in Westminster. SF would have absolutely no impact on British government policy,

SF have only 37 of the 160 seats in the Dáil. What's the point of them taking those seats if they have no chance of swaying government policy?

the right wing English media would go to town on them anyway

True. SF and their supporters have some of the thinnest skin in all creation. God forbid if the Daily Express were to say something mean about them, I don't think they'd be able to cope!

[Eamonnca1]

List of SF's accomplishments in Dáil Eireann:

...

End of list.