Joe Brolly

[Dougal Maguire]

Boris Johnson... riiiight... I'll leave you to make up your own hierarchy of indignation if you please, for now I'll just focus on the topic in hand and what Colm O'Rourke said.

If you can't see the link between this sort of toxic view of what comprises masculinity and the massive mental health issues among young men in this country then you clearly have no understanding of the subject.

I absolutely don't see any link between the comments Colm O'Rourke made and poor mental health. I can, mind you, see a link between those who create a 'snowflake' mentality cocooning young people from the realities and 'rough and tumble' of life thereby weakening  their natural resilience, and contributing to poor mental health

[Hound]

A horrible phrase to come out with even if he didn't mean it in any sort of homosexual slur. I'd be unhappy if I had a son going to his school. He's from a different time though I suppose so hopefully this shit will mostly die out with his generation. Having traits or characteristics mostly viewed as feminine doesn't make you weak. There's young lads across the country killing themselves because only 'pansy boys' talk about their feelings. That's an extreme example but it's all coming from the same place. Don't think there should be any question of him losing his job but hope someone had a stern word in his ear.

I find Westside's contribution bewildering - is he saying that homophobia (alleged in this instance) is a big issue but at the same time implying that ageism is not an issue ? I'm not up to speed on what is politically correct and what is not so maybe Westside might clarify this. I'm being quite serious here - I recently learned that one should not refer to people as Coloured but that Black is a politically correct term. Like myself, there's quite a section of the population who are oblivious to PC rules (and would like to stay that way if they had a choice).

Anyway, as another poster pointed out, context is critical when you look at Colm O'Rourke's comments which were offensive to some. What he said was said purely in the context of playing Gaelic Football. His audience would also, in the main, have been GAA enthusiasts. We know what he meant. Some on here have had a dig at his media performance. Ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally I respect the man and while not always agreeing with his viewpoints I would put him down as a very decent individual and certainly not someone who would intentionally set out to upset the Gay community.

"Recently"?  Wow.

Anyway on to O'Rourke and the "context" of what he said. Using "pansy" in the context of a player going to ground far too easily.

What does pansy mean. I'm sure there are many versions in the dictionary, here's Webster's example:

noun
any of various violets, esp. a popular garden hybrid (Viola tricolor hortensis), with flat, broad, velvety petals in many colors
slang
an effeminate man; esp., an effeminate male homosexual: a dismissive or contemptuous term

I think you'd agree the context COR used it was the slang version and not the flower version!

At best, it was very clumsy language. I can see how some people find it very offensive. Frankly, I think people defending the use of the language are shower of idiots.

As I said earlier, actions speak louder than words. In my view O'Rourke's clumsy language is completely overshadowed by what he actually did by bringing Gough to speak at his school a fortnight ago. He made a mistake, let's move on, but let's not defend it.

Finally, the analysis he was trying to give was completely wrong anyway. Players don't dive because they're weak. They dive because they're trying to cheat.

[The Boy Wonder]

Is there a dictionary or some other charter that one could look up to find out what language is not politically correct ?
We have new words coming on stream regularly such as "Woke". Obviously it is too soon for such words to be included in dictionaries but idiots like myself can't be expected to be up to speed and all the latest buzz words and also won't be up to speed on political correctness. Many of us don't subscribe to political correctness and like to call a spade a spade (I have a feeling this phrase might not be PC these days).

It's all very well to sneer at those of us who might be unaware that describing people as "coloured" is offensive but maybe Hound could enlighten us on who is the authority that decides what is PC or non-PC and where can one look up the definitive guide.

[five points]

Players don't dive because they're weak. They dive because they're trying to cheat.

Weak men cheat.

[ONeill]

Any public figures (and not so public) should do a crash course in potentially offensive words.

Good business idea.

[Westside]

A horrible phrase to come out with even if he didn't mean it in any sort of homosexual slur. I'd be unhappy if I had a son going to his school. He's from a different time though I suppose so hopefully this shit will mostly die out with his generation. Having traits or characteristics mostly viewed as feminine doesn't make you weak. There's young lads across the country killing themselves because only 'pansy boys' talk about their feelings. That's an extreme example but it's all coming from the same place. Don't think there should be any question of him losing his job but hope someone had a stern word in his ear.

I find Westside's contribution bewildering - is he saying that homophobia (alleged in this instance) is a big issue but at the same time implying that ageism is not an issue ? I'm not up to speed on what is politically correct and what is not so maybe Westside might clarify this. I'm being quite serious here - I recently learned that one should not refer to people as Coloured but that Black is a politically correct term. Like myself, there's quite a section of the population who are oblivious to PC rules (and would like to stay that way if they had a choice).

Anyway, as another poster pointed out, context is critical when you look at Colm O'Rourke's comments which were offensive to some. What he said was said purely in the context of playing Gaelic Football. His audience would also, in the main, have been GAA enthusiasts. We know what he meant. Some on here have had a dig at his media performance. Ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally I respect the man and while not always agreeing with his viewpoints I would put him down as a very decent individual and certainly not someone who would intentionally set out to upset the Gay community.

Is ageism an issue? I don't know. Go ahead and make your case if you think it is.

Not sure if you read my post. I've already said I don't think it had anything got to do with homophobia. I already said we need to remember that he's from a time when this sort of language was pervasive without really thinking of the meaning. However, he's not your average farmer from the sticks in Leitrim. He has a responsibility as an educator and a tv pundit to lead by example.

Don't hide behind the 'PC gone mad' bullshit. Be responsible for your words and actions.

[Westside]

Boris Johnson... riiiight... I'll leave you to make up your own hierarchy of indignation if you please, for now I'll just focus on the topic in hand and what Colm O'Rourke said.

If you can't see the link between this sort of toxic view of what comprises masculinity and the massive mental health issues among young men in this country then you clearly have no understanding of the subject.

I do have some understanding of mental health issues and they have nothing to do with Colm's oft expressed virtue of manliness on the football pitch.
But I can give a list of a myriad of evidenced reasons which are attributed to affecting male mental health.

So what are you denying here: that men are less likely to talk about their feelings because of some notion of talking about feelings being 'womanly'? Or that not talking about it has a severe negative impact and drives up suicide rates?
If you're claiming that these historical and damaging notions of what constitutes manliness aren't all wrapped up together and connected to phrases like 'pansy' then you would want to go educate yourself further.

[five points]

If you're claiming that these historical and damaging notions of what constitutes manliness aren't all wrapped up together and connected to phrases like 'pansy' then you would want to go educate yourself further.

This couldn't be more wrong. Resilience, stoicism and patience are fundamental to mental health.

[J70]

Is there a dictionary or some other charter that one could look up to find out what language is not politically correct ?
We have new words coming on stream regularly such as "Woke". Obviously it is too soon for such words to be included in dictionaries but idiots like myself can't be expected to be up to speed and all the latest buzz words and also won't be up to speed on political correctness. Many of us don't subscribe to political correctness and like to call a spade a spade (I have a feeling this phrase might not be PC these days).

It's all very well to sneer at those of us who might be unaware that describing people as "coloured" is offensive but maybe Hound could enlighten us on who is the authority that decides what is PC or non-PC and where can one look up the definitive guide.

What does call a "spade a spade" even mean?

Is it like "tell it like it is" (something you hear a lot from the American right wing about people like Trump)?

You must lead a pretty sheltered life if, at this point, you were still unaware that the use of the word "coloured" and its association with institutional racism was not offensive to black people.

[samuel maguire]

Colm said this refering to the 'soft' nature of the incident. I think he was 100% correct in doing so and said it with no mallice towards any sexual orientation. Anyone who is offended with this is a fool. Why do people of other sexual orientations think everything is aimed or jibbed towards them? David Geough also needs to question himself over the comments that he made. Catch yourself on and grow up for gods sake

[five points]

You must lead a pretty sheltered life if, at this point, you were still unaware that the use of the word "coloured" and its association with institutional racism was not offensive to black people.

Nobody told the NAACP. https://www.naacp.org/

[J70]

You must lead a pretty sheltered life if, at this point, you were still unaware that the use of the word "coloured" and its association with institutional racism was not offensive to black people.

Nobody told the NAACP. https://www.naacp.org/

Context and history... honouring the struggle... these don't appear relevant to you?

[five points]

You must lead a pretty sheltered life if, at this point, you were still unaware that the use of the word "coloured" and its association with institutional racism was not offensive to black people.

Nobody told the NAACP. https://www.naacp.org/

Context and history... honouring the struggle... these don't appear relevant to you?

They appear totally relevant to me. And if the The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People don't consider the term 'Coloured People' racist, why should I?

[J70]

You must lead a pretty sheltered life if, at this point, you were still unaware that the use of the word "coloured" and its association with institutional racism was not offensive to black people.

Nobody told the NAACP. https://www.naacp.org/

Context and history... honouring the struggle... these don't appear relevant to you?

They appear totally relevant to me. And if the The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People don't consider the term 'Coloured People' racist, why should I?

You don't get to decide or dictate what terms with historically repressive, violent, racist connotations are deemed offensive and outdated. That's up to them.

And only a willfully ignorant person would deny the legitimacy of a repressed people reclaiming or preserving such a term to honour their past struggle.

Now that I think of it, I remember having a similar conversation with you over the n-word, when you were still posting as "foxcommander".

[Main Street]

A horrible phrase to come out with even if he didn't mean it in any sort of homosexual slur. I'd be unhappy if I had a son going to his school. He's from a different time though I suppose so hopefully this shit will mostly die out with his generation. Having traits or characteristics mostly viewed as feminine doesn't make you weak. There's young lads across the country killing themselves because only 'pansy boys' talk about their feelings. That's an extreme example but it's all coming from the same place. Don't think there should be any question of him losing his job but hope someone had a stern word in his ear.

I find Westside's contribution bewildering - is he saying that homophobia (alleged in this instance) is a big issue but at the same time implying that ageism is not an issue ? I'm not up to speed on what is politically correct and what is not so maybe Westside might clarify this. I'm being quite serious here - I recently learned that one should not refer to people as Coloured but that Black is a politically correct term. Like myself, there's quite a section of the population who are oblivious to PC rules (and would like to stay that way if they had a choice).

Anyway, as another poster pointed out, context is critical when you look at Colm O'Rourke's comments which were offensive to some. What he said was said purely in the context of playing Gaelic Football. His audience would also, in the main, have been GAA enthusiasts. We know what he meant. Some on here have had a dig at his media performance. Ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally I respect the man and while not always agreeing with his viewpoints I would put him down as a very decent individual and certainly not someone who would intentionally set out to upset the Gay community.

"Recently"?  Wow.

Anyway on to O'Rourke and the "context" of what he said. Using "pansy" in the context of a player going to ground far too easily.

What does pansy mean. I'm sure there are many versions in the dictionary, here's Webster's example:

noun
any of various violets, esp. a popular garden hybrid (Viola tricolor hortensis), with flat, broad, velvety petals in many colors
slang
an effeminate man; esp., an effeminate male homosexual: a dismissive or contemptuous term

I think you'd agree the context COR used it was the slang version and not the flower version!

At best, it was very clumsy language. I can see how some people find it very offensive. Frankly, I think people defending the use of the language are shower of idiots.

As I said earlier, actions speak louder than words. In my view O'Rourke's clumsy language is completely overshadowed by what he actually did by bringing Gough to speak at his school a fortnight ago. He made a mistake, let's move on, but let's not defend it.

Finally, the analysis he was trying to give was completely wrong anyway. Players don't dive because they're weak. They dive because they're trying to cheat.

Devious and deliberately so, or just ignorant?
Webster cleary defines the meaning of Pansy as

A.  disparaging + offensive : a weak or effeminate man or boy
B. disparaging + offensive : a male homosexual

Websters defintion of effeminate 
1 : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner

other definitions

A. a weak man or boy who is easily frightened
B. or offensive : a male homosexual

It is context which defines meaning, otherwise the English language would be a sewer pit exploited by every pc aficionado who hasn't a clue what were the original intentions of being politically correct.