Jim McGuiness - 10 Years On

[seafoid]

Mcfadden, lacy, murphy, kavanagh, cassidy.  Not sure how well the mcgees were known prior to donegal taking off to be fair but you can't argue these werent top players prior to them getting success.

It's well known they had that bad culture that he rightly corrected, got them well conditioned and setup a system that naturalised better teams. 

The culture may not need corrected this time, all teams are expected to operate at a high standard of fitness and there is little separating them in that regard, so in my view it wil boil down to the quality of players at his disposal.

I'm stumped to think how he could setup the team to play any different than most county teams are playing also, so I don't think he will get an edge on teams there like he did last time

Mcfadden, lacy, murphy, kavanagh, cassidy.  Not sure how well the mcgees were known prior to donegal taking off to be fair but you can't argue these werent top players prior to them getting success.

It's well known they had that bad culture that he rightly corrected, got them well conditioned and setup a system that naturalised better teams. 

The culture may not need corrected this time, all teams are expected to operate at a high standard of fitness and there is little separating them in that regard, so in my view it wil boil down to the quality of players at his disposal.

I'm stumped to think how he could setup the team to play any different than most county teams are playing also, so I don't think he will get an edge on teams there like he did last time

Cassidy and Lacey had both won Allstars earlier and would have been on the radar of GAA fans nationally but that would have been it. In 2011 both Cassidy and Lacey won l stars under McGuinness. He upped performance levels from everyone. And then he dropped Cassidy.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

[Derryman forever]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

I think you missed the point i was hoping  to make.

IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.

[redzone]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

I think you missed the point i was hoping  to make.

IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.

It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV

[tyrone08]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

I think you missed the point i was hoping  to make.

IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.

It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV

If you look back at those tyrone/donegal matches they were always cagey affairs. Luck played a part too as there should have been a few sending offs which never happened. Joe mcmahon getting punched in the back of the head and going off with a concussion while the donegal player got a yellow springs to mind.

[J70]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

I think you missed the point i was hoping  to make.

IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.

It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV

If you look back at those tyrone/donegal matches they were always cagey affairs. Luck played a part too as there should have been a few sending offs which never happened. Joe mcmahon getting punched in the back of the head and going off with a concussion while the donegal player got a yellow springs to mind.

That was one incident, and Leo was lucky not to get the line for sure, what other ones were there?

The key for me in the McGuinness-Harte rivalry was that Donegal would repeatedly shut down the Tyrone attack for half hours at a time, whereas at the other end we always had enough to see us through.

On the overall discussion, as someone mentioned earlier, a big part of what made McGuinness successful was getting consistency out of the likes of McFadden, Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher and so on. The talent had always been there, but you could never depend on it. McFadden would shoot the lights out from all angles in one game, and then disappear completely for the next three or four. That changed in 2011-13 (he lost his form completely during 2014, which was partly why we didn't scrape that second AI).

[tyrone08]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

I think you missed the point i was hoping  to make.

IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.

It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV

If you look back at those tyrone/donegal matches they were always cagey affairs. Luck played a part too as there should have been a few sending offs which never happened. Joe mcmahon getting punched in the back of the head and going off with a concussion while the donegal player got a yellow springs to mind.

That was one incident, and Leo was lucky not to get the line for sure, what other ones were there?

The key for me in the McGuinness-Harte rivalry was that Donegal would repeatedly shut down the Tyrone attack for half hours at a time, whereas at the other end we always had enough to see us through.

On the overall discussion, as someone mentioned earlier, a big part of what made McGuinness successful was getting consistency out of the likes of McFadden, Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher and so on. The talent had always been there, but you could never depend on it. McFadden would shoot the lights out from all angles in one game, and then disappear completely for the next three or four. That changed in 2011-13 (he lost his form completely during 2014, which was partly why we didn't scrape that second AI).

2012 there was a goal line clearance to stop tyrone winning match, 2015 last tryone attack hit the crossbar stopping tyrone winning.

They met 4 times i think bwtween 2011 and 2015, 2 goal line clearances and a clear sending off which wasnt given. Like i said there wasnt much between those teams at that time.

Mickey seemed to be fixated on beating jim for some reason and overall tyrone suffered due to mickeys introduction of a very defensive system which never played to tyrones strength.

Looking forward to see how the derry and donegal games will go over the next few years

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

I think you missed the point i was hoping  to make.

IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.

Well that's fair enough but I don't think you can really credibly suggest a game was "men against boys" when there was nothing in it until the final seconds. I'm not convinced the physical difference was as great as you suggest either. Certainly McGuinness had taken Donegal's fitness and strength levels up several notches and Tyrone by that point were a (great) team in decline, but if the physical gap was as vast as men and against boys then Tyrone wouldn't have got close. In reality they probably should have had the game won before the late Donegal goal.

Tyrone08 is bang on about McGuinness getting in Mickey's head during that era though. His latter years with Tyrone were spoiled by trying to copy the super defensive model and even make it more defensive, while failing to find the balance with attack against better opponents. It was never anywhere near as effective as the best McGuinness Donegal teams (and perhaps not as effective even as Gallagher's Derry in recent times). That and the fact he hasn't won a big game in Croke Park since 2008 make him an intriguing choice for a Derry team still seeking that ideal balance and how to win the big games. I digress, but it's certainly going to be interesting.

[Itchy]

I have a prediction. The football in Ulster will be so putrid this year coming with Harte, McGuinness and Laverty in charge of teams, that there will be a massive pressure to introduce new rules to reverse the way football is going.

[Rossfan]

And what might those new rules be?

[Itchy]

And what might those new rules be?

Who knows? All I'm saying is there will be big pressure to do something.

Saying that it's surely time for teams to better utilise the opportunity that the mark rule gives. I'm amazed teams don't work shorter marks when faced with a mass defence.

[Armagh18]

And what might those new rules be?

Who knows? All I'm saying is there will be big pressure to do something.

Saying that it's surely time for teams to better utilise the opportunity that the mark rule gives. I'm amazed teams don't work shorter marks when faced with a mass defence.

Most try and use it abit do they not? Problem is that defending teams will be smart enough to stop the better free takers from winning a mark and most players aren't comfortable kicking from distance.

[Rossfan]

And if Refs enforce the 15 second rule (for a change) most will fail to score as they won't have time to

Hop the ball 3 or 4 times stealing a metre each time
Settle themselves
Run in another 5 metres
Then tap an easy chance over

[J70]

Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!

according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.

Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.

innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.

It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.

Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!

I think you missed the point i was hoping  to make.

IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.

It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV

If you look back at those tyrone/donegal matches they were always cagey affairs. Luck played a part too as there should have been a few sending offs which never happened. Joe mcmahon getting punched in the back of the head and going off with a concussion while the donegal player got a yellow springs to mind.

That was one incident, and Leo was lucky not to get the line for sure, what other ones were there?

The key for me in the McGuinness-Harte rivalry was that Donegal would repeatedly shut down the Tyrone attack for half hours at a time, whereas at the other end we always had enough to see us through.

On the overall discussion, as someone mentioned earlier, a big part of what made McGuinness successful was getting consistency out of the likes of McFadden, Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher and so on. The talent had always been there, but you could never depend on it. McFadden would shoot the lights out from all angles in one game, and then disappear completely for the next three or four. That changed in 2011-13 (he lost his form completely during 2014, which was partly why we didn't scrape that second AI).

2012 there was a goal line clearance to stop tyrone winning match, 2015 last tryone attack hit the crossbar stopping tyrone winning.

They met 4 times i think bwtween 2011 and 2015, 2 goal line clearances and a clear sending off which wasnt given. Like i said there wasnt much between those teams at that time.

Mickey seemed to be fixated on beating jim for some reason and overall tyrone suffered due to mickeys introduction of a very defensive system which never played to tyrones strength.

Looking forward to see how the derry and donegal games will go over the next few years

2015 McGuinness was gone, although in fairness Gallagher didn't change a whole lot, which meant he failed to adapt to other teams adapting to us. Don't remember the crossbar or much about the match except that I recall it being a dour affair, as per usual!

The 2012 Penrose shot was a 10/1 effort. He hit it well and Durcan did well to get the foot to it as it came through a crowd of players from the 14 yard line, but that's not a shot you'd normally expect to score. I'd compare it to us hitting a bouncing ball against the post in the last minute of the 2014 AI final - we came close to salvaging a draw, but you still felt over the game that Kerry were just that wee bit better on the day.

On the other hand, sometimes those low percentage efforts go your way - in 2016 Tyrone won the UF with three unbelievable, spectacular long range scores in injury time after another grindfest (probably the most boring of all our meetings I'd say).

So maybe your point stands!

[seafoid]

Maybe McGuinness will bring Murphy to Tír na nÓg instead of doing anything tactical.