Mother and Baby Home Report

[trailer]

Home Rule is Rome Rule. Unbelievable how true that turned out to be.

It was fairly predictable in the run up to independence.
Once the religious lost power the economy overtook NI.
Now there's no comparison.

The contrast between the romance of independence and the grubby reality is covered in the book Woodbrook by David Thomson.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3263899-woodbrook

Thanks I must pick that up.
Very true once Ireland threw off the shackles of Religion their economy went into overdrive and the people have prospered.

[Snapchap]

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. There's a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didn't end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.

Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

And sorry to repeat the point, but any society that is outraged by this and remains silent/tolerant/passive about Direct Provision - the modern day, state supported, profit generating human rights abusing institution - needs to take a good look at itself.

What percentage of asylum claimed are dismissed as fraudulent?

Where the fundamental human rights of people, many of whom are children, are being abused (with the support of the state, and for profit), then your question is wholly irrelevant. Irish society has the opportunity now to get onto the right side of history on this one.

[whitey]

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. There's a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didn't end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.

Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

And sorry to repeat the point, but any society that is outraged by this and remains silent/tolerant/passive about Direct Provision - the modern day, state supported, profit generating human rights abusing institution - needs to take a good look at itself.

What percentage of asylum claimed are dismissed as fraudulent?

Where the fundamental human rights of people, many of whom are children, are being abused (with the support of the state, and for profit), then your question is wholly irrelevant. Irish society has the opportunity now to get onto the right side of history on this one.

Why don't you just answer the question I asked ? (Perhaps the answer undermines your narrative)

[APM]

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. There's a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didn't end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.

Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

That's the bit that gets me.  The deference shown by society to the church and how people put the clergy on a pedestal.  Ultimately it was the people of Ireland that put their daughters into these places.

[whitey]

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. There's a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didn't end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.

Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

That's the bit that gets me.  The deference shown by society to the church and how people put the clergy on a pedestal.  Ultimately it was the people of Ireland that put their daughters into these places.

APM-people were brainwashed into thinking that they would burn in hell for all eternity

Better to have one person repent to save the family from such a fate

[Snapchap]

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. There's a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didn't end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.

Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

And sorry to repeat the point, but any society that is outraged by this and remains silent/tolerant/passive about Direct Provision - the modern day, state supported, profit generating human rights abusing institution - needs to take a good look at itself.

What percentage of asylum claimed are dismissed as fraudulent?

Where the fundamental human rights of people, many of whom are children, are being abused (with the support of the state, and for profit), then your question is wholly irrelevant. Irish society has the opportunity now to get onto the right side of history on this one.

Why don't you just answer the question I asked ? (Perhaps the answer undermines your narrative)

Or perhaps you're trying to suggest that if someone's application for asylum is deemed fraudulent, that they and their children deserve to have their human rights abused for profit. There were no doubt people who knew what was going on in mother and baby homes too, and made excuses for it.

[whitey]

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. There's a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didn't end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.

Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

And sorry to repeat the point, but any society that is outraged by this and remains silent/tolerant/passive about Direct Provision - the modern day, state supported, profit generating human rights abusing institution - needs to take a good look at itself.

What percentage of asylum claimed are dismissed as fraudulent?

Where the fundamental human rights of people, many of whom are children, are being abused (with the support of the state, and for profit), then your question is wholly irrelevant. Irish society has the opportunity now to get onto the right side of history on this one.

Why don't you just answer the question I asked ? (Perhaps the answer undermines your narrative)

Or perhaps you're trying to suggest that if someone's application for asylum is deemed fraudulent, that they and their children deserve to have their human rights abused for profit. There were no doubt people who knew what was going on in mother and baby homes too, and made excuses for it.

Fair enough-you're not willing to answer the question!

[Lar Naparka]

My neighbours shut confined their pregnant, unmarried daughter to the house once she started to show.

Everyone knew anyway, even us kids!

And this was only the 80s as well.

if Ireland has embraced the Protestant religion way back when it would have made Irish history a lot less painful these types of crimes would never have happened or clerical abuse , the country would probably never have been   partitioned and all the troubles and violence that brought with it .

That's very debatable.
As history evolved, there was the ruling class, the Ascendancy,  who were Anglican. almost without exception. This was the Established Church and had more power, rights and privileges. Tithes had to be paid by all non-Anglicans to support the Established Church. 
So if the poor Irish had turned to any of the Protestant churches, they wouldn't be that much better off unless they tried to convert to Anglicism and you can bet your house on it that the Ascendancy would have nothing to do with them.
Converting to Presbyterianism was also a no-no as that's the religion of the Ulster Scots and the native Irish are still brawling with that lot to the present day.
Above all else, France and Spain are Catholic countries and as they were enemies of England, the Catholic Irish couldn't risk turning to anything else.

[Snapchap]

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. There's a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didn't end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.

Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

And sorry to repeat the point, but any society that is outraged by this and remains silent/tolerant/passive about Direct Provision - the modern day, state supported, profit generating human rights abusing institution - needs to take a good look at itself.

What percentage of asylum claimed are dismissed as fraudulent?

Where the fundamental human rights of people, many of whom are children, are being abused (with the support of the state, and for profit), then your question is wholly irrelevant. Irish society has the opportunity now to get onto the right side of history on this one.

Why don't you just answer the question I asked ? (Perhaps the answer undermines your narrative)

Or perhaps you're trying to suggest that if someone's application for asylum is deemed fraudulent, that they and their children deserve to have their human rights abused for profit. There were no doubt people who knew what was going on in mother and baby homes too, and made excuses for it.

Fair enough-you're not willing to answer the question!

Correct. I'm unwilling to answer it because it would give creedence to your attempt to use fraudulent asylum claims as some sort of justification for human right abuses by profiteering companies with the support of the state.

Your question is not just irrelevant, but utterly cold hearted in motivation. My position is that no percentage of fraudulent claims justifies the level of human rights abuses going on in Direct Provision centres.

[APM]

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. There's a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didn't end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.

Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

That's the bit that gets me.  The deference shown by society to the church and how people put the clergy on a pedestal.  Ultimately it was the people of Ireland that put their daughters into these places.

APM-people were brainwashed into thinking that they would burn in hell for all eternity

Better to have one person repent to save the family from such a fate

No doubt that was part of it, but a large part of it was also about saving face and shame in social circles.  The parents that banished their daughters must have experienced a serious sense of grief and guilt.  They would have known it was wrong on some level.  Life was certainly cheaper then on a number of levels.  Families hiring out their children - that went on until the 1940s at least. You have to admire those that stood up to the Church and put their families first in the face of a hostile society.  Talk about the past being another country - it really was. 

[Orior]

There are some schools in the north that have creches (for their pupils babies).

Is that what we all want?

[johnnycool]

Think even before the Mother and Child Homes, the Irish people were always a bit depraved in their attitudes to illegitimate children and unwed mothers. There's a long tradition of burying them in what were euphemistically called Fairy Fields. The new state went a step further and incarcerated them with support of many families, and if the children didn't end up in unconsecrared ground like a septic tank, thousands were sold abroad often transported by someone who was emigrating to America who would bring child to new owners on other side, adding to the suffering of the mother who was allowed bond with child until it was ready to be dispensed with in a new way. We have a vision of ourselves as a great people but we were anything but.

Let's not let the Catholic Church off the hook for this one, please.

Of course the Church shouldn't be let off the hook, but neither should Irish society. These women were often sent to the homes by their own families.

That's the bit that gets me.  The deference shown by society to the church and how people put the clergy on a pedestal.  Ultimately it was the people of Ireland that put their daughters into these places.

APM-people were brainwashed into thinking that they would burn in hell for all eternity

Better to have one person repent to save the family from such a fate

No doubt that was part of it, but a large part of it was also about saving face and shame in social circles.  The parents that banished their daughters must have experienced a serious sense of grief and guilt.  They would have known it was wrong on some level.  Life was certainly cheaper then on a number of levels.  Families hiring out their children - that went on until the 1940s at least. You have to admire those that stood up to the Church and put their families first in the face of a hostile society.  Talk about the past being another country - it really was.

And who set the standard for this moral outrage in social circles? The men from the pulpit, that's who.

I can remember even in the 90's the local PP giving out from the altar about a young girl who'd got pregnant out of wedlock and in his day she'd have been cast out of the parish as a scarlet woman.

FFS even as a young teenager I knew what he was saying was mad.

This same misogynistic church required women to be "churched" after they'd given birth so that they could be allowed back in to the Church and this entailed standing outside while the congregation prayed for you as you had partaken in a sin of the flesh.

Even any still born babies were not allowed to be buried on consecrated ground up until very recently, 20 odd years or so.

[johnnycool]

There are some schools in the north that have creches (for their pupils babies).

Is that what we all want?

Sex education would be good at an appropriate age as well as contraception if wanted but a creche is far better than casting the girls out like pariahs.

[trailer]

There are some schools in the north that have creches (for their pupils babies).

Is that what we all want?

Which schools?

[Main Street]

There are some schools in the north that have creches (for their pupils babies).

Is that what we all want?

Sex education would be good at an appropriate age as well as contraception if wanted but a creche is far better than casting the girls out like pariahs.

or boosting abortion as an option.
This is an excellent program in NI to support young mothers to continue with their studies.