Poppy Watch

[deiseach]

This post raises an interesting question.

When did civilian deaths start to matter?

They only matter when "the other side" cause them.

The terrorist is the one with the small bomb - Brendan Behan.

[muppet]

This post raises an interesting question.

When did civilian deaths start to matter?

They only matter when "the other side" cause them.

The terrorist is the one with the small bomb - Brendan Behan.

..and thus presumably the more acceptable casualty count?

[BennyCake]

My final word for this year. My uncle died in WWII. I wouldn't wear a poppy. My reason is simply that I am Irish and it is a British thing. For those who want to wear poppies in Ireland North or South it is fine when for the right reasons. Unfortunately as we all know a bit like orange parades it's great that you can annoy someone by doing so. In my eyes wearing a poppy in that context demeans and undermines the sacrifices it is meant to represent. As Irish people we all myself included can not quite bring ourselves to embrace some aspects of the culture of our British neighbours. Their armies and conflicts form part of their heritage for better or worse. Many British soldiers would not want to be in Iraq, Afghanistan etc... But they do so out of a sense of duty which again as an Irishman I can't understand. In this day and age though shouldn't we be able to accept that this is part of our neighbours culture, are we not able to forgive and move on? At the end of the day many of us are happy to go to work in the UK, we support their PL teams like we were born in that town, just because we can't understand it doesn't make it wrong. Separate out those annoying PUL/DUP/UUP representatives scoring political points with it, (not unlike some of the Shinners butchering Irish), separate out the motives of the British Government and understand that ordinary Scots, ordinary Welsh people and ordinary English people support the Poppy campaign for very good reasons, their sons their daughters and indeed the sons and daughters of many an Irish family have died in uniform and they are proud of them. Don't wear one if like me it makes you uncomfortable. Finally,finally the only thing worse than a unionist using the poppy for political reasons are those in the SDLP who were laying wreaths on Sunday and wore one for exactly the same reasons.

It's not the British thing I have a problem with, it's the war thing.

Britain talks about peace here, as does the US, while at the same time blowing the shite out of some country.

Blair sold arms to Gaddafi then Libya is wrecked because he had arms. You couldn't make it up.

I think the Unionists wear poppies because they will do anything to be seen to support the British and the Empire. No matter how inhumane their actions, but they'll try to convince themselves they all did/do it for our freedom and all that bollix.

It's also not about the two WW's. Britain is still at war and has been for a century. And they will continue to be so because it is profitable to be so. There's no other reason for it. But you won't hear that on TV or in the Sun.

Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

[gallsman]

Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

[AZOffaly]

+1. Whether or not you feel comfortable in contributing to a fund for ex-servicemen is one thing, but I don't think doing so necessarily implies you supported the war they fought in. The way the USA shunned the ex-servicemen coming home from Vietnam shows the damage that can do. So you can hate the war, but try help the detritus, which includes the people who had to fight there.

[theskull1]

Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

I thinks that's exactly the narrow perspective the British Establishment would want us all to take. The gaze is firmly on the noble soldiers who lost their lives when the bugle sounds. Not a word about the murdered innocents or indeed the murdering powerbrokers. I'm sure the multi multi millionaire Tony BLiar would agree with that opinion.

[Feckitt]

......and their ringtone was "Go on home British Soldiers".

Haha, now that would be classic

[muppet]

+1. Whether or not you feel comfortable in contributing to a fund for ex-servicemen is one thing, but I don't think doing so necessarily implies you supported the war they fought in. The way the USA shunned the ex-servicemen coming home from Vietnam shows the damage that can do. So you can hate the war, but try help the detritus, which includes the people who had to fight there.

I would definitely have sympathy for conscripts or those drafted, but my greatest sympathy would be for the civilians who had the war imposed on them.

[AZOffaly]

Absolutely. It's not mutually exclusive though.

[BennyCake]

Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

Why would I have sympathy for any soldier who was wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan? What did they think they would do when they signed up for the army? Herding sheep? Flower arranging? Those drafted due to conscription, yes, but not those who volunteered. And if they volunteer to fight for the elitists, the elitists should be looking after them, not a charity.

[gallsman]

Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

I thinks that's exactly the narrow perspective the British Establishment would want us all to take. The gaze is firmly on the noble soldiers who lost their lives when the bugle sounds. Not a word about the murdered innocents or indeed the murdering powerbrokers. I'm sure the multi multi millionaire Tony BLiar would agree with that opinion.

I don't know about you, but I'm more than capable of thinking for myself, thanks very much.

Take Andy Allen, the young lad from Belfast, for example. He has my every sympathy and a considerable amount of respect. This comes not from David Cameron telling me to think like that, but rather from basic humanity. At the same time, I am still very much anti-war, leftist and outraged at the mass loss of civilian life

[gallsman]

Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

Why would I have sympathy for any soldier who was wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan? What did they think they would do when they signed up for the army? Herding sheep? Flower arranging? Those drafted due to conscription, yes, but not those who volunteered. And if they volunteer to fight for the elitists, the elitists should be looking after them, not a charity.

Did I say you should? I was merely pointing out that it is perfectly possible to both maintain an anti-war stance and sympathise with soldiers who are wounded and traumatised as a result of their experiences.

Say a 17 year old from Belfast signs up. He's grown up on the poverty line his entire life. Dad and brothers are in prison. Friends are junkies. Ma doesn't give a shit about him. Drops out of school at 16. No work in Shorts or the shipyards. Can't get himself a trade. Is actively targeted by recruiters, sees a chance to earn some cash and get a bit of stability in his life. Signs up, does a couple of months training and is shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan and promptly gets his limbs blown off. You'd have no sympathy for this character? None at all?

[Myles Na G.]

Britain is becoming more and more like America every year, where the armed forces are put on a pedestal and hero worshipped. It has nothing to do with looking after ex soldiers. It has everything to do with governments winning unquestioning approval for their foreign policy decisions by brainwashing the public into thinking that everyone in military uniform is a hero deserving of its support. They do this by conflating in peoples' minds the heroism of conscripts who stopped the Nazis, or the tragedy of 14 year olds signing up for the Great War, with less heroic, more controversial conflicts, such as the illegal war in Iraq. I have nothing against individuals wearing poppies, but I do find obnoxious the tv companies and the football teams who buy into the government's insidious agenda by making it compulsory for anyone appearing on the box or playing in a match to wear one.

[lynchbhoy]

Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

Why would I have sympathy for any soldier who was wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan? What did they think they would do when they signed up for the army? Herding sheep? Flower arranging? Those drafted due to conscription, yes, but not those who volunteered. And if they volunteer to fight for the elitists, the elitists should be looking after them, not a charity.

Did I say you should? I was merely pointing out that it is perfectly possible to both maintain an anti-war stance and sympathise with soldiers who are wounded and traumatised as a result of their experiences.

Say a 17 year old from Belfast signs up. He's grown up on the poverty line his entire life. Dad and brothers are in prison. Friends are junkies. Ma doesn't give a shit about him. Drops out of school at 16. No work in Shorts or the shipyards. Can't get himself a trade. Is actively targeted by recruiters, sees a chance to earn some cash and get a bit of stability in his life. Signs up, does a couple of months training and is shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan and promptly gets his limbs blown off. You'd have no sympathy for this character? None at all?

that's what I was thinking.
a lot of these kids join up as they have no other job prospects.
last thing they wanted was to have to head to Afghanistan, Iraq and the north of Ireland!

these lads are generally uneducated and not politically motivated (though might become so through some kind of indoctrination when they get to a war zone  - like the aforementioned places)

I have always felt some sympathy for these lads. a lot of you wont agree I know.

[muppet]

Poppyganda?