Poppy Watch

[Maguire01]

Anyway, if enough people really cared about this lack of an "Irish dimension or sensitivities" they'd vote with their feet.

What's the alternative? Anyway only Sainsbury's have coffee bags.

Dunnes? Local shops? If it really was that big of an issue...

[stibhan]

Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.

Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.

Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?

[Franko]

Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.

Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.

Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?

Of this is not new to him.  You are dealing here with a WUM of the highest order.  Something which was made abundantly clear to the rest of the board when he was made a total fool out of on this thread a couple of days ago.

[stibhan]

Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.

Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.

Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?

Of this is not new to him.  You are dealing here with a WUM of the highest order.  Something which was made abundantly clear to the rest of the board when he was made a total fool out of on this thread a couple of days ago.

I know, I know. I honestly think we should block members who don't post in the GAA threads.

[Myles Na G.]

Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.

Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.

Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?

British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

[armaghniac]

British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

Life did not evolve initially in Ireland, as far as I understand (of course saying it evolved at all is probably an insult to the PUL community). So people have always come  to Ireland. These people generally made their home here, the Normans become more Irish than the Irish themselves. The British, a section of them, do not make their home here but continue to describe themselves as British and seek to have British rule. So the narrative is fine.

[seafoid]

British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

Life did not evolve initially in Ireland, as far as I understand (of course saying it evolved at all is probably an insult to the PUL community). So people have always come  to Ireland. These people generally made their home here, the Normans become more Irish than the Irish themselves. The British, a section of them, do not make their home here but continue to describe themselves as British and seek to have British rule. So the narrative is fine.

The Vikings (eg Loftus, McAuley) and Normans (eg Meath accent) integrated. The Planters in Ulster mostly didn't. Irish society was stronger pre 1500 whereas post 1500 it was gradually pauperised which is not unrelated.   

[Myles Na G.]

British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

Life did not evolve initially in Ireland, as far as I understand (of course saying it evolved at all is probably an insult to the PUL community). So people have always come  to Ireland. These people generally made their home here, the Normans become more Irish than the Irish themselves. The British, a section of them, do not make their home here but continue to describe themselves as British and seek to have British rule. So the narrative is fine.

So you think the average Ulster Prod commutes here from England? Of course they've made this place their home. Many do describe themselves as Irish and many more would do so, were it not for the fact that the definition of Irish over the years has become synonymous with a narrow Gaelic, Catholic nationalism. That they identify themselves as and with the British is not surprising given their history. That doesn't mean they don't belong here. They've been here long enough to be classed as natives, unless you plan on telling white Americans, Australians and Canadians that they don't belong in their respective countries either.

[lynchbhoy]

Are they described as 'native Americans' then?

[stibhan]

Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.

Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.

Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?

British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

I do not need a lecture from you on the complexities of Irish history - I'm already well aware of it. However I would like to point out that the idea of a nation, and nationalism, was not in place during the Viking invasion of the island, but the sustained British colonisation of Ireland and the eventual arrival of British and Irish Nationalism is the main factor in modern identity-formation on these shores, and the subjugation most relevant to a debate about poppies.

Britain as a placename, or a formulation of it, was used first in the 4th Century by the way. And the 'French Speaking Normans' is not only completely incorrect but also using the same anachronism that you actually falsely accuse me of, you idiotic fool.

[Myles Na G.]

Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.

Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.

Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?

British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

I do not need a lecture from you on the complexities of Irish history - I'm already well aware of it. However I would like to point out that the idea of a nation, and nationalism, was not in place during the Viking invasion of the island, but the sustained British colonisation of Ireland and the eventual arrival of British and Irish Nationalism is the main factor in modern identity-formation on these shores, and the subjugation most relevant to a debate about poppies.

Britain as a placename, or a formulation of it, was used first in the 4th Century by the way. And the 'French Speaking Normans' is not only completely incorrect but also using the same anachronism that you actually falsely accuse me of, you idiotic fool.

Completely incorrect,you think? So what language, in your opinion, did the Norman nobility speak at the time they arrived in Ireland? And idiotic fool is a tautology, btw. 

[stibhan]

Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.

Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.

Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?

British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

I do not need a lecture from you on the complexities of Irish history - I'm already well aware of it. However I would like to point out that the idea of a nation, and nationalism, was not in place during the Viking invasion of the island, but the sustained British colonisation of Ireland and the eventual arrival of British and Irish Nationalism is the main factor in modern identity-formation on these shores, and the subjugation most relevant to a debate about poppies.

Britain as a placename, or a formulation of it, was used first in the 4th Century by the way. And the 'French Speaking Normans' is not only completely incorrect but also using the same anachronism that you actually falsely accuse me of, you idiotic fool.

Completely incorrect,you think? So what language, in your opinion, did the Norman nobility speak at the time they arrived in Ireland? And idiotic fool is a tautology, btw. 

It isn't a tautology: I know this because you can be foolish and idiotic at the same time.

It is completely incorrect because Anglo-Norman (which isn't 'French', and wasn't even 'Old French') was the language of the educated 'nobility' (and therefore Strongbow), and everybody from Malin Head to Mizen Head knows that a large part of the invading forces were Welsh, anyway. You can look this up, if you wish

Your mistake and subsequent backtracking reveals a lot about your view of history/humanity, by the way - it seems the language of the commanders means more than that of the subalterns.

[armaghniac]

And idiotic fool is a tautology, btw.

You are bit of a tautologist yourself, Myles Na G.

[Never beat the deeler]

Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.

I observed a minute's silence yesterday at 11am for all the poor young fellas sent off to war to die, and strangely enough I don't feel any shame for having done so.

I didn't buy a poppy or 'contribute to the British war machine' if you want to put it like that.

As for apologising to those people - I don't know what 'they' you are referring to, but it can't be the 'those Irish people' in your previous sentence??

[Applesisapples]

Anyway, if enough people really cared about this lack of an "Irish dimension or sensitivities" they'd vote with their feet.

What's the alternative? Anyway only Sainsbury's have coffee bags.

Thats exactly the point my friend was making...we don't care we have become more British than Finchley.