Poppy Watch

[deiseach]

When did the big green bit appear??  I remember from back in the day it was just red poppy with a black centre??

It's an English poppy? It seems the Scottish poppy still doesn't have the greenery.

[deiseach]

Great article on the Guardian's website today from a veteran who will no longer wear the poppy.

This year, I will wear a poppy for the last time

I will remember friends and comrades in private next year, as the solemnity of remembrance has been twisted into a justification for conflict

Harry Leslie Smith
theguardian.com, Friday 8 November 2013 10.34 GMT

Over the last 10 years the sepia tone of November has become blood-soaked with paper poppies festooning the lapels of our politicians, newsreaders and business leaders. The most fortunate in our society have turned the solemnity of remembrance for fallen soldiers in ancient wars into a justification for our most recent armed conflicts. The American civil war's General Sherman once said that "war is hell", but unfortunately today's politicians in Britain use past wars to bolster our flagging belief in national austerity or to compel us to surrender our rights as citizens, in the name of the public good.

Still, this year I shall wear the poppy as I have done for many years. I wear it because I am from that last generation who remember a war that encompassed the entire world. I wear the poppy because I can recall when Britain was actually threatened with a real invasion and how its citizens stood at the ready to defend her shores. But most importantly, I wear the poppy to commemorate those of my childhood friends and comrades who did not survive the second world war and those who came home physically and emotionally wounded from horrific battles that no poet or journalist could describe.

However, I am afraid it will be the last time that I will bear witness to those soldiers, airmen and sailors who are no more, at my local cenotaph. From now on, I will lament their passing in private because my despair is for those who live in this present world. I will no longer allow my obligation as a veteran to remember those who died in the great wars to be co-opted by current or former politicians to justify our folly in Iraq, our morally dubious war on terror and our elimination of one's right to privacy.

Come 2014 when the government marks the beginning of the first world war with quotes from Rupert Brooke, Rudyard Kipling and other great jingoists from our past empire, I will declare myself a conscientious objector. We must remember that the historical past of this country is not like an episode of Downton Abbey where the rich are portrayed as thoughtful, benevolent masters to poor folk who need the guiding hand of the ruling classes to live a proper life.

I can tell you it didn't happen that way because I was born nine years after the first world war began. I can attest that life for most people was spent in abject poverty where one laboured under brutal working conditions for little pay and lived in houses not fit to kennel a dog today. We must remember that the war was fought by the working classes who comprised 80% of Britain's population in 1913.

This is why I find that the government's intention to spend £50m to dress the slaughter of close to a million British soldiers in the 1914-18 conflict as a fight for freedom and democracy profane. Too many of the dead, from that horrendous war, didn't know real freedom because they were poor and were never truly represented by their members of parliament.

My uncle and many of my relatives died in that war and they weren't officers or NCOs; they were simple Tommies. They were like the hundreds of thousands of other boys who were sent to their slaughter by a government that didn't care to represent their citizens if they were working poor and under-educated. My family members took the king's shilling because they had little choice, whereas many others from similar economic backgrounds were strong-armed into enlisting by war propaganda or press-ganged into military service by their employers.

For many of you 1914 probably seems like a long time ago but I'll be 91 next year, so it feels recent. Today, we have allowed monolithic corporate institutions to set our national agenda. We have allowed vitriol to replace earnest debate and we have somehow deluded ourselves into thinking that wealth is wisdom. But by far the worst error we have made as a people is to think ourselves as taxpayers first and citizens second.

Next year, I won't wear the poppy but I will until my last breath remember the past and the struggles my generation made to build this country into a civilised state for the working and middle classes. If we are to survive as a progressive nation we have to start tending to our living because the wounded: our poor, our underemployed youth, our hard-pressed middle class and our struggling seniors shouldn't be left to die on the battleground of modern life.

[maddog]

Poppy watch from Brum, on train on way to work didnt see one from about 50 odd people around me. In work the strike rate is 1 from about 40 in the office, and he is the sort to do that, Union flag on his desk when England are playing in cricket or world cup.
They are selling them in the foyer of the building so everyone is walking past them at least twice a day.

[BennyCake]

Harry is spot on.

[BennyCake]

I noticed German Michael Ballack wearing a poppy the other night. Would he get as much abuse about that in Germany, as O'Neill and Keane would in Ireland?

[Rossfan]

, and he is the sort to do that, Union flag on his desk when England are playing in cricket or world cup.

Not much of an Englishman flying a flag with Irish and Scots crosses on it too.

[deiseach]

, and he is the sort to do that, Union flag on his desk when England are playing in cricket or world cup.

Not much of an Englishman flying a flag with Irish and Scots crosses on it too.

UK = Greater England. Fair play to him for his honesty.

[maddog]

, and he is the sort to do that, Union flag on his desk when England are playing in cricket or world cup.

Not much of an Englishman flying a flag with Irish and Scots crosses on it too.

UK = Greater England. Fair play to him for his honesty.

Or as a mate of mine says, Scotland and Wales - just the nicer bits of England

[straightred]

A quick stroll around Dublin city centre revealed 2. I can't say I was looking out for them but when I did see one I kept an eye on it. The first was an older man walking in a hurry past the Shelbourne and the other was a man on a Dublin rental bike. Its 2 more than you'd have seen 10 years ago but they are still as rare as hens teeth in my experience anyway

[J OGorman]

this thread always amazes me...cant for the life of me understand why anyone give a fiddlers

[red hander]

Brave Marine guilty of murder in Afghanistan

WEAR IT WITH PRIDE

[seafoid]

Irish times letter

Sir, – Each year as we approach November 11th, Irish society has to endure sterile and divisive controversy concerning Armistice Day, poppy-wearing and the commemoration of those who died serving with British forces during the first World War. Those Irish who died fighting in both world wars are solemnly remembered in a dignified and respectful manner on our National Day of Commemoration each July. This commemoration is devoid of the jingoism of the British equivalent, Remembrance Day.
It is inconceivable therefore that the incoming manager and assistant manager of the Irish international soccer team, Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane, with poppy in lapels (Front page, November 6th), could be unaware of the symbolism of the poppy in Ireland which has a political subtext. It is even more inconceivable that Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane could be unaware that monies collected from the sale and wearing of the poppy is used to provide material support for British soldiers who fought in the illegal invasion of Iraq and  Afghanistan. Even British soldiers involved in the recent Troubles in the North, including the events of Bloody Sunday, are recipients of funds collected from the sale of poppies.
I am uncomfortable with any Irish sporting organisation aligning itself with the British army. I furthermore find it regrettable that the incoming managers of Ireland's national soccer team would endorse publicly the purchase and wearing of the poppy in Ireland. – Yours, etc,   
TOM COOPER,
Delaford Lawn,
Knocklyon,
Dublin 16.

[Eamonnca1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?

Why should his post be about Flanders?

There's a clue in the title of this thread.

[Nally Stand]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?

Why should his post be about Flanders?

There's a clue in the title of this thread.

So the poppy appeal is only for World War veterans now?

[LeoMc]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?

Why should his post be about Flanders?

There's a clue in the title of this thread.

So the poppy appeal is only for World War veterans now?

Yes, no money goes to support veterans of "peacekeeping" duties on neighbouring islands or any illegal wars.
They are actually unsure what to do with this years collection after Florence died last year.