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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Orior on November 04, 2010, 12:36:05 PM

Title: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 04, 2010, 12:36:05 PM
This time of year Poppies go on sale. Some people buy them so as to donate money to the british security forces, while others buy them to wear as a visible badge of loyalty.

Yesterday morning I saw a chap with a poppy pinned to his baseball cap.

Have you seen poppies in unusual places?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Doogie Browser on November 04, 2010, 12:41:01 PM
Jon Snow has some interesting views on this...
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/71017,people,news,jon-snow-rounds-on-the-poppy-fascists
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 04, 2010, 01:11:20 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.

I would say its a case of being made wear them on the X-factor.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: SLIGONIAN on November 04, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.
Money talks, all those Irish working in england wear them, its more a symbol of the irish licking the holes of brits, pandering for votes or money. I see it as selling your soul. Do they realise there supporting the comfortable retirement of all those brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North.

Is it complusary on brit tv to wear one?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haranguerer on November 04, 2010, 01:15:01 PM
I think it is now. Other years there would have been plenty on tv not wearing them, now I think it must be mandatory - even the likes of the apprentice 'you're fired' last night, everyone had them pinned on (incl Dara)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: supersarsfields on November 04, 2010, 01:17:58 PM
I thought Nadine Coyle refused to wear one on some morning tv program. But I could be wrong!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 04, 2010, 01:23:16 PM
while it should be left up to the individual on the telly - I dont see too much wrong with dara o'bhrian wearing one as well as peruvian Paloma also wearing one on the 'apprentice' tv show last night.
If nadine coyle refused to wear one (I think I recall that) well that should also be up to her.

Poppy wearing wasnt that common in certain parts of England during the 70's at least but seems to have become a part of the British 'culture' now a days.

People dont want to be left out or ostracised because they are not 'joining in'.
shouldnt matter but thats the way it is.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Muzz on November 04, 2010, 01:25:40 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 04, 2010, 01:15:01 PM
I think it is now. Other years there would have been plenty on tv not wearing them, now I think it must be mandatory - even the likes of the apprentice 'you're fired' last night, everyone had them pinned on (incl Dara)

Use to be compulsary on BBC but if I remember correctly some of the newsline ladies challenged it and won.  A lot more havent wore poppies since.

I can understand people wanting to support as some people said a lot of irish in the British Army ranks and infact Irish fought in the wars with them - but what rags me is that in the North its a show of symbolism.  That you are (most likely) a protestant.  I certainly feel that people are trying to show something rather than any support it is suppose to bring.

What really rags me is Public Servants wearing them - Police etc.  Dont get it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Donkeywalloper on November 04, 2010, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

I take it, with your stance on the high moral ground that youor your family  have never benefited from anything the British State offered ? I think some of you go out of your way to be offended. FFS its a different world we're living in and concerns for a lot of people at the moment are more economic rather than historical ideology.

Ireland would a one step closer to unification if the two contestents on a british television show rejected the wearing of a poppy.   ::)   The schools must be still on holidays.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2010, 02:34:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 04, 2010, 01:23:16 PM
while it should be left up to the individual on the telly - I dont see too much wrong with dara o'bhrian wearing one as well as peruvian Paloma also wearing one on the 'apprentice' tv show last night.If nadine coyle refused to wear one (I think I recall that) well that should also be up to her.

Poppy wearing wasnt that common in certain parts of England during the 70's at least but seems to have become a part of the British 'culture' now a days.

People dont want to be left out or ostracised because they are not 'joining in'.
shouldnt matter but thats the way it is.
Wasn't her poppy that caught my eye  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 04, 2010, 03:38:21 PM
Quote from: Donkeywalloper on November 04, 2010, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

I take it, with your stance on the high moral ground that youor your family  have never benefited from anything the British State offered ? I think some of you go out of your way to be offended. FFS its a different world we're living in and concerns for a lot of people at the moment are more economic rather than historical ideology.

Is the poppy a symbol of the British state? There was me thinking it was a symbol to remember those who died in ALL wars yaddyyaddayadda. I don't blame Mary Byrne et al for wearing the poppy. When in Rome and all that. But it devalues the symbolism of donning the poppy if everyone is obliged to wear it
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 04, 2010, 04:22:19 PM
QuoteQuote from: lynchbhoy on Today at 01:23:16 PM
while it should be left up to the individual on the telly - I dont see too much wrong with dara o'bhrian wearing one as well as peruvian Paloma also wearing one on the 'apprentice' tv show last night.If nadine coyle refused to wear one (I think I recall that) well that should also be up to her.

Poppy wearing wasnt that common in certain parts of England during the 70's at least but seems to have become a part of the British 'culture' now a days.

People dont want to be left out or ostracised because they are not 'joining in'.
shouldnt matter but thats the way it is.

Wasn't her poppy that caught my eye   

Just read the bottom bit from you Tony and thought you were on about MAry Byrne, gave me a fright  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 04, 2010, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 04, 2010, 12:36:05 PM
This time of year Poppies go on sale. Some people buy them so as to donate money to the british security forces, while others buy them to wear as a visible badge of loyalty.
I shall be buying one on the off-chance (no matter how remote) that I might bump into "Pints of Guinness" and be able to 'rub his face in it':
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17732.0

Though I also like to think it honours the boys/bhoys of the Royal Irish out in Helmand, too:
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/longrifleynwa/GAWA/1RIRISH-2010-TFH-014-CPSABAT-ACOY034.jpg)

Meanwhile, I see those pesky (Far) West Brits out in Canada are wearing them, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kX_3y3u5Uo

And so as not to be left out, the West Frogs are in on it, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcjnqM6KQsQ&feature=related
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 04, 2010, 04:48:28 PM
I don't have a problem with people wearing them if they want, but I do have a problem with what Jon Snow rightly calls 'poppy fascism' ... the Nazis did the same thing with yellow stars. 

There was a total gobshite from Dublin who was working in my place last year and one day he walks in with one of them on him - and before anybody asks, I considered him a gobshite before he wore it - and I was dying to ask him if he was ok showing support for the actions of the murderers of the Black and Tans, the Auxiliiaries, the B Specials and the UDR, but he would have been too thick to even know what I was talking about, he was only interested in currying favour with management
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2010, 04:55:46 PM
There is an irony about wearing a poppy, in support of the British troops fighting in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: magpie seanie on November 04, 2010, 04:58:46 PM
Making everyone that appears on British TV wear a poppy is what really sickens my hole the most. Everyone has the right to remember their war dead but its not a thing that should be forced down peoples throats like it is.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 04, 2010, 05:03:10 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 04, 2010, 04:55:46 PM
There is an irony about wearing a poppy, in support of the British troops fighting in Afghanistan.
Only to those who seem to think that the Corn Poppy and the Opium Poppy are one and the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6BlOkpdkg8&feature=related
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Trout on November 04, 2010, 05:07:42 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 04, 2010, 04:48:28 PM
I don't have a problem with people wearing them if they want, but I do have a problem with what Jon Snow rightly calls 'poppy fascism' ... the Nazis did the same thing with yellow stars. 

There was a total gobshite from Dublin who was working in my place last year and one day he walks in with one of them on him - and before anybody asks, I considered him a gobshite before he wore it - and I was dying to ask him if he was ok showing support for the actions of the murderers of the Black and Tans, the Auxiliiaries, the B Specials and the UDR, but he would have been too thick to even know what I was talking about, he was only interested in currying favour with management

That's the thing though, you didn't.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 04, 2010, 05:45:30 PM
Why risk my job for an arsehole? I don't socialise with gobshites (wish I could say the same about not replying to them on internet forums) so it's not like I could have broached the subject outside the office
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 04, 2010, 06:14:12 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2010, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 04, 2010, 12:36:05 PM
This time of year Poppies go on sale. Some people buy them so as to donate money to the british security forces, while others buy them to wear as a visible badge of loyalty.
I shall be buying one on the off-chance (no matter how remote) that I might bump into "Pints of Guinness" and be able to 'rub his face in it':
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17732.0

Though I also like to think it honours the boys/bhoys of the Royal Irish out in Helmand, too:
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/longrifleynwa/GAWA/1RIRISH-2010-TFH-014-CPSABAT-ACOY034.jpg)

Meanwhile, I see those pesky (Far) West Brits out in Canada are wearing them, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kX_3y3u5Uo

And so as not to be left out, the West Frogs are in on it, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcjnqM6KQsQ&feature=related
What's the third flag on the right hand side of the photo?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 04, 2010, 06:27:25 PM
(http://ala.pa-legion.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/poppy-image.jpg)





Is everyone ok after seeing that Poppy I posted?

Who gives a flying f...? If people want to wear Poppy, so be it. I really couldn't care less. I certainly won't be on the look out for people that are wearing it, just so I can get annoyed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 04, 2010, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 04, 2010, 01:23:16 PM
while it should be left up to the individual on the telly - I dont see too much wrong with dara o'bhrian wearing one as well as peruvian Paloma also wearing one on the 'apprentice' tv show last night.
I noticed that two of the panel didn't have poppies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2010, 06:49:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 04, 2010, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 04, 2010, 01:23:16 PM
while it should be left up to the individual on the telly - I dont see too much wrong with dara o'bhrian wearing one as well as peruvian Paloma also wearing one on the 'apprentice' tv show last night.
I noticed that two of the panel didn't have poppies.

Was going to say that myself. The comedian with the beard had none nor the fashion expert woman in the middle. I was listening to DOB earlier in the year on rte radio when he got the gig and he was saying how he had a big decisiion to make regarding wearing the poppy and how he felt it a British thing and it made him uncomfortable. Obviously he has no such problem now.

Personally I have no problem with people wearing one but it seems to me their is a cult of the poppy now and a lot of pressure put on people to wear one who normally would not wear one if they had a pressure free choice.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 04, 2010, 07:12:02 PM
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2356/2240211887_64afb853db.jpg?v=0)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 04, 2010, 07:35:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 04, 2010, 06:14:12 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2010, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 04, 2010, 12:36:05 PM
This time of year Poppies go on sale. Some people buy them so as to donate money to the british security forces, while others buy them to wear as a visible badge of loyalty.
I shall be buying one on the off-chance (no matter how remote) that I might bump into "Pints of Guinness" and be able to 'rub his face in it':
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17732.0

Though I also like to think it honours the boys/bhoys of the Royal Irish out in Helmand, too:
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/longrifleynwa/GAWA/1RIRISH-2010-TFH-014-CPSABAT-ACOY034.jpg)

Meanwhile, I see those pesky (Far) West Brits out in Canada are wearing them, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kX_3y3u5Uo

And so as not to be left out, the West Frogs are in on it, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcjnqM6KQsQ&feature=related
What's the third flag on the right hand side of the photo?
Not sure. "Lashkar Gah Celtic Supporters' Club", perhaps?  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 04, 2010, 07:44:56 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 04, 2010, 06:27:25 PM
(http://ala.pa-legion.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/poppy-image.jpg)





Is everyone ok after seeing that Poppy I posted?

Who gives a flying f...? If people want to wear Poppy, so be it. I really couldn't care less. I certainly won't be on the look out for people that are wearing it, just so I can get annoyed.

Ze goggles, zey do NOTHING!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 04, 2010, 07:54:06 PM
I wouldnt think any less of the one in X Factor or folk like that, they have no choice. It is different if you are a big hitter and can just tell whoever is interviewing you to f**k off but most cant.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 04, 2010, 08:25:48 PM
MArk Sidebottom hadn't one last Sat evening. Very surprised, i thought in was compulsory there. Remember Donna Trainor a few years back refused and got into a handling. She definately had one on today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2010, 08:38:11 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 04, 2010, 08:25:48 PM
MArk Sidebottom hadn't one last Sat evening. Very surprised, i thought in was compulsory there. Remember Donna Trainor a few years back refused and got into a handling. She definately had one on today.
Sidearse was reporting from the NI Supporters Club on the Shankill this week. I wonder did he wear one there.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2010, 02:11:10 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2010, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 04, 2010, 12:36:05 PM
This time of year Poppies go on sale. Some people buy them so as to donate money to the british security forces, while others buy them to wear as a visible badge of loyalty.
I shall be buying one on the off-chance (no matter how remote) that I might bump into "Pints of Guinness" and be able to 'rub his face in it':
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17732.0

Though I also like to think it honours the boys/bhoys of the Royal Irish out in Helmand, too:
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/longrifleynwa/GAWA/1RIRISH-2010-TFH-014-CPSABAT-ACOY034.jpg)

Meanwhile, I see those pesky (Far) West Brits out in Canada are wearing them, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kX_3y3u5Uo

And so as not to be left out, the West Frogs are in on it, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcjnqM6KQsQ&feature=related

I don't like that because it gives the impression the Republic is involved. I wouldn't mind so much if Irish Army troops where fighting alongside British Army ones, but Ireland is not involved militarly in Afganistan.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Puckoon on November 05, 2010, 03:00:45 AM
Poppycock
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 05, 2010, 06:43:26 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2010, 02:11:10 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2010, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 04, 2010, 12:36:05 PM
This time of year Poppies go on sale. Some people buy them so as to donate money to the british security forces, while others buy them to wear as a visible badge of loyalty.
I shall be buying one on the off-chance (no matter how remote) that I might bump into "Pints of Guinness" and be able to 'rub his face in it':
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17732.0

Though I also like to think it honours the boys/bhoys of the Royal Irish out in Helmand, too:
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/longrifleynwa/GAWA/1RIRISH-2010-TFH-014-CPSABAT-ACOY034.jpg)

Meanwhile, I see those pesky (Far) West Brits out in Canada are wearing them, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kX_3y3u5Uo

And so as not to be left out, the West Frogs are in on it, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcjnqM6KQsQ&feature=related

I don't like that because it gives the impression the Republic is involved. I wouldn't mind so much if Irish Army troops where fighting alongside British Army ones, but Ireland is not involved militarly in Afganistan.
If EG's right, then Lashkar Gah Celtic supporters are probably pissed off too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: omagh_gael on November 05, 2010, 08:27:08 AM
It was quite clearly the soldier on the right who hung up the tricolour. Obviously one of his RIR colleagues (off camera) has his gun trained on him for this act and your man has subsequently surrendered! He also done this all wthout a head, remarkable! ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: aontroim on November 05, 2010, 10:32:52 AM
That photo has US Army troops in it - where did it come from?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 05, 2010, 02:29:42 PM
Isn't it great that those troops in the photo above, can engage in R&R and take heart from all the poppy support back home while they participate in the war of occupation in Afghanistan, to keep Britain safe.
The kill 'any muslim will do' campaign scored a direct hit on 20 civilians in Helmand last month. 
(http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20101011/pirhayati20101011215833793.jpg)

Not a great return considering all the investment, but better than the 18 killed the week before after a direct hit on a homestead. On scale of human value, an Afghani is about the same as a rat.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 05, 2010, 02:47:31 PM
Aye, As someone living in England and while some of my colleagues wear them, I would never wear one. Even if half the British army was made up of Irish men I still would never wear it. To do so, I feel, for me would be legitimising in my own heart at least, the illegal oil wars in the middle east. While I recognise that our society would crumble with out cheap oil and gas I dont think any of us consented to the invasion of other countries to acquire it.  But then again they don't need our consent all they need is those that give up their lives in blind faith. I will not willingly give one penny, cent nor the lint in my pocket to the soldiers of the invading forces, when the real victims are the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 05, 2010, 09:35:49 PM
There's a huge irony with people on the BBC being forced to wear them. Surely the whole thing about WW1 and 2 was the fight for freedom. Can't see how forcing someone to do something squares up with that.

The other thing that really grinds my gears is people wearing them on their jumper or shirt or blouse when they're in work. This happens quite a lot in the public sector and is uncalled for. Surely the place to wear it is on your outdoor jacket and not about your person at all times.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Don Johnson on November 05, 2010, 10:11:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.
To add to that analogy, some people can either drink salt water or not drink at all.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2010, 11:11:12 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 05, 2010, 02:47:31 PM
Aye, As someone living in England and while some of my colleagues wear them, I would never wear one. Even if half the British army was made up of Irish men I still would never wear it. To do so, I feel, for me would be legitimising in my own heart at least, the illegal oil wars in the middle east. While I recognise that our society would crumble with out cheap oil and gas I dont think any of us consented to the invasion of other countries to acquire it.  But then again they don't need our consent all they need is those that give up their lives in blind faith. I will not willingly give one penny, cent nor the lint in my pocket to the soldiers of the invading forces, when the real victims are the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Taxpayer in England are you?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 06, 2010, 12:23:32 AM
Quote from: thejuice on November 05, 2010, 02:47:31 PM
Aye, As someone living in England and while some of my colleagues wear them, I would never wear one. Even if half the British army was made up of Irish men I still would never wear it. To do so, I feel, for me would be legitimising in my own heart at least, the illegal oil wars in the middle east. While I recognise that our society would crumble with out cheap oil and gas I dont think any of us consented to the invasion of other countries to acquire it.  But then again they don't need our consent all they need is those that give up their lives in blind faith. I will not willingly give one penny, cent nor the lint in my pocket to the soldiers of the invading forces, when the real victims are the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

You needn't go as far as the middle east to find victims of the british army!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.

I think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 06, 2010, 11:53:12 AM
re:tonyb
Everyone pays taxes. And i can only change how my taxes are spent by my democratic vote and through protest. Did you pay taxes to britain during the troubles? Did that make your objections any less legitimate?
Re nally stand
Indeed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 07, 2010, 02:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.

I think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.

You chose that line of debate, citing Jon Snow, who will only wear his for one day.

I am referring to those who seem to take offense at anything British, while watching British TV.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on November 07, 2010, 02:44:14 AM
I could never wear a symbol dedicated to the a person who shot a family member of mine dead, but I don't mind a English man wearing it in the honour of his grandfather. What really messes my head is these northern prods who take them off the their jacket when they get to work and put it on their tee-shirt
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fluffy Che on November 07, 2010, 10:27:52 AM
I'm for jury service tomorrow, will l be a headless poppy in a sea of scarlett ? l have no problem with British people wearing it to remember the dead, these were people who fought fascists and Nazis ( not loyalist bottom-feeders who wear it as they paint they're kerbs ) but how can l forget the thugs that served here? As proud as they are to wear it l am also as proud not to..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Bogball XV on November 08, 2010, 10:52:17 AM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 07, 2010, 02:44:14 AM
I could never wear a symbol dedicated to the a person who shot a family member of mine dead, but I don't mind a English man wearing it in the honour of his grandfather. What really messes my head is these northern prods who take them off the their jacket when they get to work and put it on their tee-shirt
I don't even mind that too much, it's more the tossers who can hardly see out the car window for the 'wear your poppy with pride' stickers.  Remember a poppy's not just for the remembrance 6 weeks, buy a sticker and it's there for life!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Joxer on November 08, 2010, 10:57:00 AM
Didnt see one on Eddie Jordan yesterday on the F1 on BBC1
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Canalman on November 08, 2010, 10:57:52 AM
Would have been critical on Irishmen wearing poppies on British tv on the past but can see now that to not wear one would probably be career finishing.
Haven't seen a single poppy here in Dublin yet.................... usually see one or two (literally) every year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 08, 2010, 11:03:24 AM
I seen the brit contingent on the late late show on friday night for johnny giles' tribute were wearing them, I can only assume they brought them with them as no one else had them on and maybe i read too much into it but it seemed to be a blunt statement by 2 or 3 of them

i posted before on the grind my gears thread on poppies, some might not have seen it but the pint was some boy landed up to my house to sell them and when i declined he wouldn't take no for an answer, as someone else said, ironic given it is meant to symbolise the fight for freedom of speech etc
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: maldini on November 08, 2010, 11:14:51 AM
Celtic fans protested about it at the wkd - (although they didn't spell 'bloodstained' properly)  ;D

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/veterans-anger-as-celtic-fans-stage-half-time-protest-against-poppies-1.1066550?localLinksEnabled=false
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Square Ball on November 08, 2010, 09:08:20 PM
they could be banning a lot of people then

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/9168655.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/9168655.stm)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 08, 2010, 10:25:33 PM
Bit of a joke of with Celtic. Its not like these fans broke a law by protesting against poppy's? It wasn't rascist or anything was it? So on what charge will they be banned? This is the nasty side of the poppy where freedom of choice is removed - for f**k sake the whole teams in scotland have to have it on their jersey for one weekend!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gerry on November 08, 2010, 10:26:09 PM
Quote from: Joxer on November 08, 2010, 10:57:00 AM
Didnt see one on Eddie Jordan yesterday on the F1 on BBC1

he wore one on saturday to

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/5159611146_f9ab8d87f2_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 08, 2010, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 08, 2010, 10:25:33 PM
Bit of a joke of with Celtic. Its not like these fans broke a law by protesting against poppy's? It wasn't rascist or anything was it? So on what charge will they be banned? This is the nasty side of the poppy where freedom of choice is removed - for f**k sake the whole teams in scotland have to have it on their jersey for one weekend!

Exactly.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:14:52 PM
Gerry where is Eddie's poppy on that photo. All I see are three red dots which are much smaller than the poppy on Coulthard's shirt. Looks like blood or maybe he slaughtered his poppy into bits.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 08, 2010, 11:18:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:14:52 PM
Gerry where is Eddie's poppy on that photo. All I see are three red dots which are much smaller than the poppy on Coulthard's shirt. Looks like blood or maybe he slaughtered his poppy into bits.

It's not a poppy its a fire extinguisher
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 08, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Keith Woods wore one on BBC for the Ireland game, it made me sick.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:26:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2010, 02:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.

I think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.

You chose that line of debate, citing Jon Snow, who will only wear his for one day.

I am referring to those who seem to take offense at anything British, while watching British TV.

You are still missing the point. Firstly, I never cited Jon Snow, but the issue is that of presenters and people appearing on the media being forced to wear a poppy, with particular reference to Irish people. I haven't seen one person here complain about British people wearing them, if they choose to do so.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 08, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Keith Woods wore one on BBC for the Ireland game, it made me sick.

You're not supposed to eat them.  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 08, 2010, 11:28:44 PM
Lads, I was feeling hungry last night and was too tired to cook something. I ordered in a chippy. The guy that delivered it, was wearing a Poppy. Just want to double check here first. Should I be aggrieved by this, or is it ok to let this one slide?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: town lad on November 08, 2010, 11:32:15 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 08, 2010, 10:25:33 PM
Bit of a joke of with Celtic. Its not like these fans broke a law by protesting against poppy's? It wasn't rascist or anything was it? So on what charge will they be banned? This is the nasty side of the poppy where freedom of choice is removed - for f**k sake the whole teams in scotland have to have it on their jersey for one weekend!
Off course  it was not against the law. But it certainly was in bad taste. Irish Political activists should leave there grapes at the turnstiles. After all Celtic as club practically begging to get into the English Premier league.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:34:12 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:26:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2010, 02:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.

I think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.

You chose that line of debate, citing Jon Snow, who will only wear his for one day.

I am referring to those who seem to take offense at anything British, while watching British TV.

You are still missing the point. Firstly, I never cited Jon Snow, but the issue is that of presenters and people appearing on the media being forced to wear a poppy, with particular reference to Irish people. I haven't seen one person here complain about British people wearing them, if they choose to do so.

Sorry it was Doogie Browser citing Jon Snow. Confused the names.

Firstly is there any proof that Irish people are being 'forced' to wear poppies? That is what you say the issue is.

Secondly do you see the hypocrisy of giving out about 'British' things while watching British TV. What do you expect? Tracy Piggott always wears Shamrock, on RTE, on Paddy's Day. If any english person gave out about that they would be laughed out of it, and if a Unionist gave we'd have a field day.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 08, 2010, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 08, 2010, 11:28:44 PM
Lads, I was feeling hungry last night and was too tired to cook something. I ordered in a chippy. The guy that delivered it, was wearing a Poppy. Just want to double check here first. Should I be aggrieved by this, or is it ok to let this one slide?

Now why would you be aggrieved Ziggy, ya rascal ziggy, lol. Unless of course, that was all he was wearing?

Actually, that reminds me of how some of the media reported Lady GaGa waving the tricolour in her concert. It made a selection of her audience feel uncomfortable. Why?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 08, 2010, 11:39:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:34:12 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:26:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2010, 02:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.

I think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.

You chose that line of debate, citing Jon Snow, who will only wear his for one day.

I am referring to those who seem to take offense at anything British, while watching British TV.

You are still missing the point. Firstly, I never cited Jon Snow, but the issue is that of presenters and people appearing on the media being forced to wear a poppy, with particular reference to Irish people. I haven't seen one person here complain about British people wearing them, if they choose to do so.

Sorry it was Doogie Browser citing Jon Snow. Confused the names.

Firstly is there any proof that Irish people are being 'forced' to wear poppies? That is what you say the issue is.

Secondly do you see the hypocrisy of giving out about 'British' things while watching British TV. What do you expect? Tracy Piggott always wears Shamrock, on RTE, on Paddy's Day. If any english person gave out about that they would be laughed out of it, and if a Unionist gave out we'd have a field day.

Not me. I've had enough gathering shamrock to last me a life time.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:46:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:34:12 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:26:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2010, 02:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.

I think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.

You chose that line of debate, citing Jon Snow, who will only wear his for one day.

I am referring to those who seem to take offense at anything British, while watching British TV.

You are still missing the point. Firstly, I never cited Jon Snow, but the issue is that of presenters and people appearing on the media being forced to wear a poppy, with particular reference to Irish people. I haven't seen one person here complain about British people wearing them, if they choose to do so.

Sorry it was Doogie Browser citing Jon Snow. Confused the names.

Firstly is there any proof that Irish people are being 'forced' to wear poppies? That is what you say the issue is.

Secondly do you see the hypocrisy of giving out about 'British' things while watching British TV. What do you expect? Tracy Piggott always wears Shamrock, on RTE, on Paddy's Day. If any english person gave out about that they would be laughed out of it, and if a Unionist gave we'd have a field day.

I'm sorry, but you're still missing it. I have no problem with people wearing a poppy on British TV if its their choice, but we learned some years ago from Donna Trainor in the BBC that she was forced to wear one. Thats what I disagree with. I've no problem about the BBC being British and I don't see any evidence on this thread of anyone complaining about this.

Your comparison of the poppy and the shamrock however is absolutely bogus and I hope you realise that. They symbolise 2 completely different things. But on the subject of symbols representing military dead I'd be interested to see how many British people who appeared on Irish TV round Easter time wore Easter lillies
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 08, 2010, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:46:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:34:12 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:26:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2010, 02:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.

I think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.

You chose that line of debate, citing Jon Snow, who will only wear his for one day.

I am referring to those who seem to take offense at anything British, while watching British TV.

You are still missing the point. Firstly, I never cited Jon Snow, but the issue is that of presenters and people appearing on the media being forced to wear a poppy, with particular reference to Irish people. I haven't seen one person here complain about British people wearing them, if they choose to do so.

Sorry it was Doogie Browser citing Jon Snow. Confused the names.

Firstly is there any proof that Irish people are being 'forced' to wear poppies? That is what you say the issue is.

Secondly do you see the hypocrisy of giving out about 'British' things while watching British TV. What do you expect? Tracy Piggott always wears Shamrock, on RTE, on Paddy's Day. If any english person gave out about that they would be laughed out of it, and if a Unionist gave we'd have a field day.

I'm sorry, but you're still missing it. I have no problem with people wearing a poppy on British TV if its their choice, but we learned some years ago from Donna Trainor in the BBC that she was forced to wear one. Thats what I disagree with. I've no problem about the BBC being British and I don't see any evidence on this thread of anyone complaining about this.

Your comparison of the poppy and the shamrock however is absolutely bogus and I hope you realise that. They symbolise 2 completely different things. But on the subject of symbols representing military dead I'd be interested to see how many British people who appeared on Irish TV round Easter time wore Easter lillies

How many Irish wear Easter lilies might be just as relevant a question!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 01:21:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 08, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Keith Woods wore one on BBC for the Ireland game, it made me sick.

You're not supposed to eat them.  ::)

Well I defiantly found it hard to swallow.   ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ballinaman on November 09, 2010, 01:26:36 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 01:21:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 08, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Keith Woods wore one on BBC for the Ireland game, it made me sick.

You're not supposed to eat them.  ::)

Well I defiantly found it hard to swallow.   ;)
Thats what she said.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 09, 2010, 10:39:48 AM
Comparing the Shamrock to the Poppy? Symbols synonymous with each country? Yes.
That is where the similarities end. Not a valid parallel to draw.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 09, 2010, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 01:21:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 08, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Keith Woods wore one on BBC for the Ireland game, it made me sick.

You're not supposed to eat them.  ::)

Well I defiantly found it hard to swallow.   ;)

You can't beat a bit of defiance.

(Who's Keith Woods?)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2010, 12:17:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2010, 10:39:48 AM
Comparing the Shamrock to the Poppy? Symbols synonymous with each country? Yes.
That is where the similarities end. Not a valid parallel to draw.

In a polarised land maybe.

Both are widely worn in both countries.

As for the Easter Lily, this is obviously a wind up.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 09, 2010, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2010, 12:17:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2010, 10:39:48 AM
Comparing the Shamrock to the Poppy? Symbols synonymous with each country? Yes.
That is where the similarities end. Not a valid parallel to draw.

In a polarised land maybe.

Both are widely worn in both countries.

As for the Easter Lily, this is obviously a wind up.

Both are widely worn but as I say, it's where the similarities end. The Shamrock is not for fund raising and it certainly is not for the benefit of occupational forces.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: wherefromreferee? on November 09, 2010, 02:02:09 PM
Think I saw something on daybreak this morning where a female employee of A&F was asked to remove her poppy?  Company policy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 07:46:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2010, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 01:21:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 08, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Keith Woods wore one on BBC for the Ireland game, it made me sick.

You're not supposed to eat them.  ::)

Well I defiantly found it hard to swallow.   ;)

You can't beat a bit of defiance.

(Who's Keith Woods?)

(http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_players/high_five/images/keith+woods.jpg)(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00879/money-graphics-2007_879788a.jpg)
(http://www.universityobserver.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/keith-wood_1366079c.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gerry on November 09, 2010, 07:53:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:14:52 PM
Gerry where is Eddie's poppy on that photo. All I see are three red dots which are much smaller than the poppy on Coulthard's shirt. Looks like blood or maybe he slaughtered his poppy into bits.

for whats its worth he had a larger one on saturday the was slightly hide by the lapel of his jacket
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 09, 2010, 08:06:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2010, 12:17:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2010, 10:39:48 AM
Comparing the Shamrock to the Poppy? Symbols synonymous with each country? Yes.
That is where the similarities end. Not a valid parallel to draw.

In a polarised land maybe.

Both are widely worn in both countries.

As for the Easter Lily, this is obviously a wind up.

In what respect is this a wind up?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 09, 2010, 08:12:29 PM
QuoteQuote from: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:46:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:34:12 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:26:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2010, 02:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.


I think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.


You chose that line of debate, citing Jon Snow, who will only wear his for one day.

I am referring to those who seem to take offense at anything British, while watching British TV.


You are still missing the point. Firstly, I never cited Jon Snow, but the issue is that of presenters and people appearing on the media being forced to wear a poppy, with particular reference to Irish people. I haven't seen one person here complain about British people wearing them, if they choose to do so.


Sorry it was Doogie Browser citing Jon Snow. Confused the names.

Firstly is there any proof that Irish people are being 'forced' to wear poppies? That is what you say the issue is.

Secondly do you see the hypocrisy of giving out about 'British' things while watching British TV. What do you expect? Tracy Piggott always wears Shamrock, on RTE, on Paddy's Day. If any english person gave out about that they would be laughed out of it, and if a Unionist gave we'd have a field day.


I'm sorry, but you're still missing it. I have no problem with people wearing a poppy on British TV if its their choice, but we learned some years ago from Donna Trainor in the BBC that she was forced to wear one. Thats what I disagree with. I've no problem about the BBC being British and I don't see any evidence on this thread of anyone complaining about this.

Your comparison of the poppy and the shamrock however is absolutely bogus and I hope you realise that. They symbolise 2 completely different things. But on the subject of symbols representing military dead I'd be interested to see how many British people who appeared on Irish TV round Easter time wore Easter lillies


How many Irish wear Easter lilies might be just as relevant a question!

Well I think it is quite obvious that you are no more a nationalist than Myles Na G, Gallsman, you are obviously from 'the other side' attempting to masquerade as a Nationalist, the game is up and the mask is off
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2010, 08:36:55 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 09, 2010, 08:12:29 PM
QuoteQuote from: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:46:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:34:12 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 08, 2010, 11:26:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2010, 02:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Surely watching the British Broadcasting Corporation and then giving out about it's 'Britishness' is like drinking saltwater and giving out about its saltiness. And then doing it over and over again.


I think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.


You chose that line of debate, citing Jon Snow, who will only wear his for one day.

I am referring to those who seem to take offense at anything British, while watching British TV.


You are still missing the point. Firstly, I never cited Jon Snow, but the issue is that of presenters and people appearing on the media being forced to wear a poppy, with particular reference to Irish people. I haven't seen one person here complain about British people wearing them, if they choose to do so.


Sorry it was Doogie Browser citing Jon Snow. Confused the names.

Firstly is there any proof that Irish people are being 'forced' to wear poppies? That is what you say the issue is.

Secondly do you see the hypocrisy of giving out about 'British' things while watching British TV. What do you expect? Tracy Piggott always wears Shamrock, on RTE, on Paddy's Day. If any english person gave out about that they would be laughed out of it, and if a Unionist gave we'd have a field day.


I'm sorry, but you're still missing it. I have no problem with people wearing a poppy on British TV if its their choice, but we learned some years ago from Donna Trainor in the BBC that she was forced to wear one. Thats what I disagree with. I've no problem about the BBC being British and I don't see any evidence on this thread of anyone complaining about this.

Your comparison of the poppy and the shamrock however is absolutely bogus and I hope you realise that. They symbolise 2 completely different things. But on the subject of symbols representing military dead I'd be interested to see how many British people who appeared on Irish TV round Easter time wore Easter lillies


How many Irish wear Easter lilies might be just as relevant a question!

Well I think it is quite obvious that you are no more a nationalist than Myles Na G, Gallsman, you are obviously from 'the other side' attempting to masquerade as a Nationalist, the game is up and the mask is off
Why do you say this? Outside of republican memorials Easter lilies are like hens teeth usually. His point is very valid.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 09, 2010, 08:44:27 PM
Other than on TV / in the paper, I can't recall ever seeing anyone wear an Easter Lilly.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haranguerer on November 09, 2010, 08:55:17 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 07:46:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2010, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 01:21:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 08, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Keith Woods wore one on BBC for the Ireland game, it made me sick.

You're not supposed to eat them.  ::)

Well I defiantly found it hard to swallow.   ;)

You can't beat a bit of defiance.

(Who's Keith Woods?
)

(http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_players/high_five/images/keith+woods.jpg)(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00879/money-graphics-2007_879788a.jpg)
(http://www.universityobserver.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/keith-wood_1366079c.jpg)

Thats not Keith Woods
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2010, 09:05:32 PM
Would it be fair to say if you dislike people wearing a poppy then you're intolerant? I could not careless if someone was wearing a poppy all year, makes no difference to my life, job or my family.

If you are wound up over people you don't know, hang around with or have an influence in your life then i find it very sad.

Just my opinion
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 09, 2010, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2010, 08:44:27 PM
Other than on TV / in the paper, I can't recall ever seeing anyone wear an Easter Lilly.

At easter in Killeshandra when I was in my early 20's they used to sell easter lillys in the pubs and most would buy them (except the protestants) but it seems to have died a death. Can't remember the last time I saw them on sale. Maybe we should form a cult demanding everyone wears them or else...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armagho9 on November 09, 2010, 09:20:37 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 09, 2010, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2010, 08:44:27 PM
Other than on TV / in the paper, I can't recall ever seeing anyone wear an Easter Lilly.

At easter in Killeshandra when I was in my early 20's they used to sell easter lillys in the pubs and most would buy them (except the protestants) but it seems to have died a death. Can't remember the last time I saw them on sale. Maybe we should form a cult demanding everyone wears them or else...

still happens in Armagh town and most people still get them
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:22:45 PM
just watching RTE news and some irish business man Kinsella was wearing a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 09, 2010, 09:37:32 PM
Quote from: armagho9 on November 09, 2010, 09:20:37 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 09, 2010, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2010, 08:44:27 PM
Other than on TV / in the paper, I can't recall ever seeing anyone wear an Easter Lilly.

At easter in Killeshandra when I was in my early 20's they used to sell easter lillys in the pubs and most would buy them (except the protestants) but it seems to have died a death. Can't remember the last time I saw them on sale. Maybe we should form a cult demanding everyone wears them or else...

still happens in Armagh town and most people still get them
Most people? Really?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
Lads i would have my opinions on Poppys and i wouldnt buy one. But i feel this linki is a bit pointless and maybe even hypocritical. How many of us have relatives who fought in World War 1 or 2 or even both.
I am all for remembering the dead of those 2 wars, alot of them were Irish and they died for a cause against a greater evil.
But im sure some people posting on this site would have prefered if the Nazis had won the war.
I just think people get annoyed every year over this whole poppy thing and for what.
The irish on tv in the uk that wear it most of them havent a clue what happened in the north during the troubles, wewere put to the back of their minds as it didnteffect the vast majority of them.
maybe it would serve better to educate them on the troubles than getting all hot and bothered as these guys arent really making a statement as they prob are not really sure what it is all about.
i have lived down here long enough to know the vast majority dont really know what the troubles were about.

ON another note Manchester United will be the only club in the premiership not to have a poppy sewn on to their shirts this weekend.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 09, 2010, 09:50:15 PM
Stoke 3 Birmingham 2
Stoke's manager Pulis did not wear a poppy, in contrast to Birmingham's manager McLeish, who wore one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 09, 2010, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
Lads i would have my opinions on Poppys and i wouldnt buy one. But i feel this linki is a bit pointless and maybe even hypocritical. How many of us have relatives who fought in World War 1 or 2 or even both.
I am all for remembering the dead of those 2 wars, alot of them were Irish and they died for a cause against a greater evil.
But im sure some people posting on this site would have prefered if the Nazis had won the war.
I just think people get annoyed every year over this whole poppy thing and for what.
The irish on tv in the uk that wear it most of them havent a clue what happened in the north during the troubles, wewere put to the back of their minds as it didnteffect the vast majority of them.
maybe it would serve better to educate them on the troubles than getting all hot and bothered as these guys arent really making a statement as they prob are not really sure what it is all about.
i have lived down here long enough to know the vast majority dont really know what the troubles were about.

ON another note Manchester United will be the only club in the premiership not to have a poppy sewn on to their shirts this weekend.

And I would suggest that if an emblem were produced which would be specific to those lost in the world wars, then the Irish people could wear them happily however the poppy appeal is not specific to WW veterans. It is also worn in support of, and for the financial benefit of, the scumbags who ran rampage in Ireland/Afghanistan/Iraq.

Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
i have lived down here long enough to know the vast majority dont really know what the troubles were about.

It's to the shame of many (most?) in the south who don't know and don't want to know about the injustices and bloodshed (from both sides) which occurred in our own country. Sure as long as my county is one of the 26 free one's who gives a f**k about the north. Free-Stateism at it's worst.

Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
ON another note Manchester United will be the only club in the premiership not to have a poppy sewn on to their shirts this weekend.
Why's that Snoop? Pity Celtic and plenty more besides wouldn't do likewise and not bow to poppy fascism.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armagho9 on November 09, 2010, 09:54:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2010, 09:37:32 PM
Quote from: armagho9 on November 09, 2010, 09:20:37 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 09, 2010, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2010, 08:44:27 PM
Other than on TV / in the paper, I can't recall ever seeing anyone wear an Easter Lilly.

At easter in Killeshandra when I was in my early 20's they used to sell easter lillys in the pubs and most would buy them (except the protestants) but it seems to have died a death. Can't remember the last time I saw them on sale. Maybe we should form a cult demanding everyone wears them or else...

still happens in Armagh town and most people still get them
Most people? Really?

well i have never counted but certainly alot
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armagho9 on November 09, 2010, 09:59:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2010, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
Lads i would have my opinions on Poppys and i wouldnt buy one. But i feel this linki is a bit pointless and maybe even hypocritical. How many of us have relatives who fought in World War 1 or 2 or even both.
I am all for remembering the dead of those 2 wars, alot of them were Irish and they died for a cause against a greater evil.
But im sure some people posting on this site would have prefered if the Nazis had won the war.
I just think people get annoyed every year over this whole poppy thing and for what.
The irish on tv in the uk that wear it most of them havent a clue what happened in the north during the troubles, wewere put to the back of their minds as it didnteffect the vast majority of them.
maybe it would serve better to educate them on the troubles than getting all hot and bothered as these guys arent really making a statement as they prob are not really sure what it is all about.
i have lived down here long enough to know the vast majority dont really know what the troubles were about.

ON another note Manchester United will be the only club in the premiership not to have a poppy sewn on to their shirts this weekend.

And I would suggest that if an emblem were produced which would be specific to those lost in the world wars, then the Irish people could wear them happily however the poppy appeal is not specific to WW veterans. It is also worn in support of, and for the financial benefit of, the scumbags who ran rampage in Ireland/Afghanistan/Iraq.

Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
i have lived down here long enough to know the vast majority dont really know what the troubles were about.

It's to the shame of many (most?) in the south who don't know and don't want to know about the injustices and bloodshed (from both sides) which occurred in our own country. Sure as long as my county is one of the 26 free one's who gives a f**k about the north. Free-Stateism at it's worst.

Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
ON another note Manchester United will be the only club in the premiership not to have a poppy sewn on to their shirts this weekend.
Why's that Snoop? Pity Celtic and plenty more besides wouldn't do likewise and not bow to poppy fascism.

unfortunately alot of people seem to think it is only to do with the world wars
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rosnarun on November 09, 2010, 10:26:09 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 09, 2010, 08:55:17 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 07:46:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2010, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 01:21:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 08, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Keith Woods wore one on BBC for the Ireland game, it made me sick.

You're not supposed to eat them.  ::)

Well I defiantly found it hard to swallow.   ;)

You can't beat a bit of defiance.

(Who's Keith Woods?
)

(http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_players/high_five/images/keith+woods.jpg)(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00879/money-graphics-2007_879788a.jpg)
(http://www.universityobserver.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/keith-wood_1366079c.jpg)

Thats not Keith Woods

look at the shape of the ball that all you need to know
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2010, 10:33:35 PM
Ireland is going bankrupt and there are people more worried about other people wearing flowers.

Come to think of it that is probably why were are going bankrupt.......
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Bogball XV on November 09, 2010, 10:38:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:34:12 PMI think you missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the BBC's Britishness, rather they're complaining about the fact that people appearing on the media are being forced to wear a poppy.

You chose that line of debate, citing Jon Snow, who will only wear his for one day.

I am referring to those who seem to take offense at anything British, while watching British TV.
[/quote]

You are still missing the point. Firstly, I never cited Jon Snow, but the issue is that of presenters and people appearing on the media being forced to wear a poppy, with particular reference to Irish people. I haven't seen one person here complain about British people wearing them, if they choose to do so.
[/quote]

Sorry it was Doogie Browser citing Jon Snow. Confused the names.

Firstly is there any proof that Irish people are being 'forced' to wear poppies? That is what you say the issue is.

Secondly do you see the hypocrisy of giving out about 'British' things while watching British TV. What do you expect? Tracy Piggott always wears Shamrock, on RTE, on Paddy's Day. If any english person gave out about that they would be laughed out of it, and if a Unionist gave we'd have a field day.
[/quote]
I heard Robert Ballagh say that Donna Trainer (sic?) on BBC NI was threatened with the sack if she didn't wear one - can't comment on the veracity or otherwise of that, but I know that such is the extent of the poppy facism, it would most likely have been intimated to her.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 09, 2010, 10:26:09 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 09, 2010, 08:55:17 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 07:46:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 09, 2010, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 01:21:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 08, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Keith Woods wore one on BBC for the Ireland game, it made me sick.

You're not supposed to eat them.  ::)

Well I defiantly found it hard to swallow.   ;)

You can't beat a bit of defiance.

(Who's Keith Woods?
)

(http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_players/high_five/images/keith+woods.jpg)(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00879/money-graphics-2007_879788a.jpg)
(http://www.universityobserver.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/keith-wood_1366079c.jpg)

Thats not Keith Woods

look at the shape of the ball that all you need to know

Are you lads being pedantic, thats Keith Woods
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 11:00:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2010, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
Lads i would have my opinions on Poppys and i wouldnt buy one. But i feel this linki is a bit pointless and maybe even hypocritical. How many of us have relatives who fought in World War 1 or 2 or even both.
I am all for remembering the dead of those 2 wars, alot of them were Irish and they died for a cause against a greater evil.
But im sure some people posting on this site would have prefered if the Nazis had won the war.
I just think people get annoyed every year over this whole poppy thing and for what.
The irish on tv in the uk that wear it most of them havent a clue what happened in the north during the troubles, wewere put to the back of their minds as it didnteffect the vast majority of them.
maybe it would serve better to educate them on the troubles than getting all hot and bothered as these guys arent really making a statement as they prob are not really sure what it is all about.
i have lived down here long enough to know the vast majority dont really know what the troubles were about.

ON another note Manchester United will be the only club in the premiership not to have a poppy sewn on to their shirts this weekend.

And I would suggest that if an emblem were produced which would be specific to those lost in the world wars, then the Irish people could wear them happily however the poppy appeal is not specific to WW veterans. It is also worn in support of, and for the financial benefit of, the scumbags who ran rampage in Ireland/Afghanistan/Iraq.

Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
i have lived down here long enough to know the vast majority dont really know what the troubles were about.

It's to the shame of many (most?) in the south who don't know and don't want to know about the injustices and bloodshed (from both sides) which occurred in our own country. Sure as long as my county is one of the 26 free one's who gives a f**k about the north. Free-Stateism at it's worst.

Quote from: snoopdog on November 09, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
ON another note Manchester United will be the only club in the premiership not to have a poppy sewn on to their shirts this weekend.
Why's that Snoop? Pity Celtic and plenty more besides wouldn't do likewise and not bow to poppy fascism.
Im not totally sure why. I think it is more to do with the reason that one of the tabloids was pressuruising teams into wearing it. United just said they didnt need to wear it to show support.
They played Chelsea at stamford bridge last year and the pensioners got upset
Maybe they will wear it this year but i read somewhere that they wont.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2010, 11:09:28 PM
Bogball, if that is true then the BBC would be open to a serious court action, wearing a poppy would be a choice I'd imagine she takes herself. Radio and TV presenters say Londonderry are they also being forced to say that also??

Getting beyond a joke, who really gives a flying FCUK??? Sad sad sad. Maybe when we stop thinking about other religions and worry about things that really matter in life then Ireland could be in a better place.

Living through the troubles was enough for me. seeing some of the things that went on over those years is a place where I wouldn't want to bring my kids up in. But if the hatered still continues (as it does on this board) I'd have no problem leaving.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rosnarun on November 09, 2010, 11:14:55 PM
what have poppies got to do with religion?
they are a celebration of englands war efforts and the soldiers that survive them.. that includes the Irish Wars and the mercenaries from Eire that fought for them.
support it if you will but call a spade a spade and dont't try and Drag religion into it
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 11:19:11 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 09, 2010, 11:14:55 PM
what have poppies got to do with religion?
they are a celebration of englands war efforts and the soldiers that survive them.. that includes the Irish Wars and the mercenaries from Eire that fought for them.
support it if you will but call a spade a spade and dont't try and Drag religion into it

I don't often argee with Rosnarun but I find the Poppy disturbing they provide financial support for groups that have done terrible things in Ireland. I have no problem with people Irish or otherwise commemorating war dead. I may even attend such a commemoration, but I will not provide financial support. Despite what people say and despite some (in more recent times) French and Germans wearing them, it is a symbol of the British Empire and the British Commonwealth that does not sit easily with me. Irish people are clearly being strong armed into wearing them on U.K. tv, I am sure many would out of choice but I am pretty sure many more would not.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 09, 2010, 11:31:49 PM
Gusty Spence (probably wearing a poppy) calls the the UVF to be disbanded.

I reckon the UVF will give him the V sign and say F U.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fitzroyalty on November 10, 2010, 12:22:56 AM
What are peoples thoughts on an individual who wears TWO poppies?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 10, 2010, 12:52:57 AM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 10, 2010, 12:22:56 AM
What are peoples thoughts on an individual who wears TWO poppies?

Twice as loyal, or else suffering from Alzheimer's
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 10, 2010, 08:31:57 AM
Quote from: Orior on November 10, 2010, 12:52:57 AM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 10, 2010, 12:22:56 AM
What are peoples thoughts on an individual who wears TWO poppies?

Twice as loyal, or else suffering from Alzheimer's

:D Nice one
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 10, 2010, 10:27:21 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2010, 10:56:47 PM
Are you lads being pedantic, thats Keith Woods

They're being pedantic. Niall Woods has a lot to answer for

I don't blame Keith Wood for wearing a poppy. It's all very well for the likes of Jon Snow making a statement,  but he is a national treasure working for the hep cats at Channel 4. People expect stuff like this. They do not expect statements from outsiders, and Keith Wood has to make a living
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Bogball XV on November 10, 2010, 10:46:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2010, 11:09:28 PM
Bogball, if that is true then the BBC would be open to a serious court action, wearing a poppy would be a choice I'd imagine she takes herself. Radio and TV presenters say Londonderry are they also being forced to say that also??

The Derry/Londonderry protocol is established, I just don't remember what way.  It's something like they say Londonderry first and then Derry thereafter or vice versa?

Re the Donna Traynor (sic) story, I'd reckon that it was unlikely to have been said in plain language, more likely she was given the impression that she'd no choice - sure she might start posting on here giving us her side of the story soon ;)

I'd agree in general though, I don't care if people wear them or not, it's the bitter cnuts who have the car plastered in the stickers and the rampant facism that annoys me.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 11:16:31 AM
QuoteQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2010, 11:09:28 PM
Bogball, if that is true then the BBC would be open to a serious court action, wearing a poppy would be a choice I'd imagine she takes herself. Radio and TV presenters say Londonderry are they also being forced to say that also??


The Derry/Londonderry protocol is established, I just don't remember what way.  It's something like they say Londonderry first and then Derry thereafter or vice versa?

Re the Donna Traynor (sic) story, I'd reckon that it was unlikely to have been said in plain language, more likely she was given the impression that she'd no choice - sure she might start posting on here giving us her side of the story soon

I'd agree in general though, I don't care if people wear them or not, it's the bitter cnuts who have the car plastered in the stickers and the rampant facism that annoys me.

It's Londonderry first then derry then presenter's choice thereafter....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 12:42:16 PM
page 8 of the irish news shows patrick kielty meeting camilla at the irish embassy and he wasn't sporting a poppy, good man paddy, that crawler holmes is an it would be interesting to see durkan's lapel, pity camilla is blocking the view...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 10, 2010, 01:17:02 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 12:42:16 PM
page 8 of the irish news shows patrick kielty meeting camilla at the irish embassy and he wasn't sporting a poppy, good man paddy, that crawler holmes is an it would be interesting to see durkan's lapel, pity camilla is blocking the view...

Do you really care that much? How does anyone know exactly what reason somebody wears a poppy for? For all we know Durkan and other like him may have had relatives who went off to fight for the Brits in various wars and may wish to honour them.

Saw Kevin Myers in the Independent in work today - perhaps the first time I've ever read one of his pieces and not wanted to punch him.

As for people claiming the wearing of Easter Lilies is widespread... ::) ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 10, 2010, 01:31:24 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 12:42:16 PM
page 8 of the irish news shows patrick kielty meeting camilla at the irish embassy and he wasn't sporting a poppy, good man paddy, that crawler holmes is an it would be interesting to see durkan's lapel, pity camilla is blocking the view...
If by "that crawler holmes" you mean Eamonn Holmes, then I suspect his reasons are very personal:

"Eamonn Holmes was one of eight presenters who participated in the My Family at War BBC TV series, to find out the role his grandfather Jack had played in the Great War of 1914-1918. Joanna and Eamonn spent a fascinating few hours in the exact location on the Somme battlefield where Jack had spent the night before going into action with the Irish Guards on 15th September 1916."
http://www.greatwar.co.uk/whoweare.htm

From what I recall of the programme, Holmes's grandfather (from the Falls?) was badly injured in the War, and was then rather ignored by "the Brits" on his return, and shunned by Nationalists etc in turn.

His health was broken and he eventually died some years later, as a direct result of his service.

Before he made the above TV programme, Holmes was only vaguely aware of his grandfather's story.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on November 10, 2010, 01:50:53 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2010, 08:44:27 PM
Other than on TV / in the paper, I can't recall ever seeing anyone wear an Easter Lilly.

Really..I thought it was the norm in our parts.. Every Good Friday they are sold at the gates of the chapel.. Mind you they`ve just become an "i vote for Sinn Fein" symbol..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 03:48:57 PM
Lads I have relatives who fought in both world wars fighting for the 'allies' that doesn't mean I run out and wear a poppy. I don't agree with the poppy plain and simple. I will also point out that I am not my brother's keeper and cannot be responsible for their actions, one of which was a Welshman and he was forced into war via conscription. It represents all fallen British servicemen and doesn't differentiate on the wars they fought in or the rationale behind their going to war in the first instance. It is too wide a category for a one size fits all symbol.

That's why it annoys me when people say it represents the fight for freedom, where was that in the 'war' in Ireland or the colonial wars on continental Africa or modern day Iraq, afghanistan etc.

EG - I have no doubt that holmes' grandfather did go off and fight in the war and was shunnd upon his return. As happened to countless others. This further highlights the division within the nationalist community over the taking to arms at the behest of Britain an why the poppy is still such a divisive symbol.

What is forgotten is the 'enforced' immigration, my grandfather worked in England during WW2 and he often told me of having to go across to England. The reason being work was scarce and there was no such thing as landing down to the 'bru' office ona Tuesday morning. England's workforce, especially on the larger farms was decimated due to the conscription of her young men. A scheme was introduced whereby the Irish were forced to go to England to work if they were not working at home, most work in the North was filled by 'good loyal citizens' first to help in the war effort. I'd wear an emblem that commerorates the men uprooted from here and had to leave young families behind to go to a land that greeted them with signs such as 'no Irish here' in order to feed their families.

Btw Gallsman have you gotten over your crush on Nally and replaced it with me, you seem to be stalking me too now.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 10, 2010, 04:39:59 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 03:48:57 PMI don't agree with the poppy plain and simple.
Fine. Don't buy one, then.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 03:48:57 PMEG - I have no doubt that holmes' grandfather did go off and fight in the war and was shunnd upon his return. As happened to countless others.
First you make a derogatory remark about Homes, without knowing the first thing about him or his (likely) reason for wearing a Poppy.
Then when you are appraised of same, you refuse to retract, qualify or even moderate your original comment.
Which considering you, like many (most?) Irish people have a not dissimliar family history to Holmes, is especially distasteful.
In the end, it is about tolerance and respect. You choose not to wear a Poppy, despite your grandfather's experience. Fine - no-one is forcing you to wear one.
By contrast, Holmes decides to wear one because of  his grandfather's experience.
Imo, that all says more about you and your intolerance, than it does about Holmes.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 03:48:57 PMThis further highlights the division within the nationalist community over the taking to arms at the behest of Britain an why the poppy is still such a divisive symbol.
Nonsense.

Of course, many Nationalists dislike the Poppy because, eg, it evokes bitter memories of the British Army etc.

Then again, I can't stand the sight eg of Martin McGuinness, for his past record in the Provos etc, and despair that he has got to be DFM. Nonetheless, I accept his right to be there and would react accordingly if I ever had to have dealings with him.

In the end, the Poppy could only be considered "divisive", and the blame laid at the door of Britain, if Nationalists in Ireland were forced to wear it by "the Brits". They aren't.

Therefore the only people who make it "divisive" are those people like you who will not tolerate others who choose to wear one, even when they know nothing about the wearer's motives for doing so.

Pathetic.


Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 05:23:01 PM
On your point of don't buy one, I didn't realise I had to justify to you whether or not I buy one. I haven't bought one, refuse to (despite people calling to my back door) and won't. Case closed.

Why would I retract or rephrase anything? I stand over what I said. Just because you deem it necessary doesn't make it a valid point.

Don't forget EG you profess that the poppy represents the freedom of speech, among other things and you try to refuse my right to same. You sensing any irony yet up on your moral highground or how long will it take to filter up to there? Now that's what I call pathetic.

And you do know about Holmes do you? I tell from what I do know he would be safer worrying more about his 'role' in the lives of his first family that he left to flight to England than the 'role' his grandfather played in a foreign field.

Hardly a shining light and one that you are proud to have wearing a poppy. David Cameron is right when he talks of broken Britain and the loss of family values, a Britain you so love and reinforce. I think that says a lot about you.

Nationalists in Ireland are forced to wear it, the Nationalists that read the news on BBC, are they not Nationalists in Ireland? Or do you have to sign a waiver relinquishing any ties to the people you come from when you enter the gates at the 'beeb'?

As for the point of myself not wearing a poppy DESPITE my grandfather's experience, you have either missed the point or don't read what I write but instead decide to put your spin on it. My story of my grandfather reinforces my opinion of not wearing one as it was forced labour conscription that tore families apart and is therefore another example of why (some) Nationalists hate to commemorate a war they owed nothing to or from.

And where did I ever say I wouldn't tolerate anyone wearing it? I think you should check your facts before you start firing any more wild accusations about my good friend.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 10, 2010, 07:15:01 PM
I believe the SDLP leader is to wear a poppy on Sunday ... saying nothing, just putting it out there.

Anybody read Brian Feeney in the Irish News today about the history of atrocities carried out by the British army and still being perpetrated up to the present day?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2010, 07:42:19 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2010, 07:15:01 PM
I believe the SDLP leader is to wear a poppy on Sunday ... saying nothing, just putting it out there.

Sounds about right. It's not long (March '10) since her party voted for dozens of british army plaques to adorn the walls of Belfast City Hall, including several dedicated to the UDR  :-\
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 10, 2010, 08:57:58 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 12:42:16 PM
page 8 of the irish news shows patrick kielty meeting camilla at the irish embassy and he wasn't sporting a poppy, good man paddy
So meeting the royals is grand, but wearing a poppy isn't? Where's the logic there?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 09:04:17 PM
QuoteQuote from: Banana Man on Today at 12:42:16 PM
page 8 of the irish news shows patrick kielty meeting camilla at the irish embassy and he wasn't sporting a poppy, good man paddy

So meeting the royals is grand, but wearing a poppy isn't? Where's the logic there?

Seeing as you have quoted from me i take it you are referring to me, where did I bring the royal family into it? This thread is on poppies, I know you have form of going off on a tangent to deflect away from some other point but this is unreal, you are trying to change the topic that I am discussing

If you want to discuss your beloved stoops meeting the royals then start a new thread on it, that's a whole different discussion, one could even argue the royals have yet to be mentioned as Camilla is not a royal but a Duchess
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 10, 2010, 09:30:51 PM
Just for the record I nor anyone belonging to me ever wore a poppy or ever will (I hope).  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 10, 2010, 10:58:53 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 09:04:17 PM
QuoteQuote from: Banana Man on Today at 12:42:16 PM
page 8 of the irish news shows patrick kielty meeting camilla at the irish embassy and he wasn't sporting a poppy, good man paddy

So meeting the royals is grand, but wearing a poppy isn't? Where's the logic there?

Seeing as you have quoted from me i take it you are referring to me, where did I bring the royal family into it? This thread is on poppies, I know you have form of going off on a tangent to deflect away from some other point but this is unreal, you are trying to change the topic that I am discussing
Surely you can see where the reference to the royal family came from(?)
And where's the 'tangent'? Do you have a problem with people discussing lillies, shamrocks, Derry vs Londonderry on this thread as well? Maybe they're "going off on a tangent to reflect away from some other point".

Quote from: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 09:04:17 PM
If you want to discuss your beloved stoops meeting the royals then start a new thread on it, that's a whole different discussion
I don't really care who meets the royals.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 10, 2010, 09:04:17 PM
one could even argue the royals have yet to be mentioned as Camilla is not a royal but a Duchess
'One' could, but why would 'one' bother?
...especially considering she is a royal:
http://www.royal.gov.uk/ThecurrentRoyalFamily/TheDuchessofCornwall/TheDuchessofCornwall.aspx



(And please, find the 'quote' button at the top right of the post you want to quote - it's a lot easier to follow who has said what.)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 11, 2010, 12:20:21 AM
Great link there Maguire01.

I've just had hours of fun surfing the royals.

The only strange thing about Camila's website is that it does not mention the fact she was screwing Charlie while he was still married to Diana.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.

As regards using the quote button to make it easier for you, why should I? Do you think I have to mention what I want in a format that is more aesthetically pleasing to you Maguire?

As for the pathetic use of inverted commas around my use of the word one, that says more about your limited education than mine and further debased the value of any further comments you have to make.

What I do know is if you mention SDLP or stoop at all the 'Maguire alarm' goes off and you scramble to justify whatever they done. I would wager if Ms Ritchie told you the sky was green you would believe her. You fail to engage in rationale debate on a given topic unless there is a party line or soundbite to roll out. In a way I envy your blind faith, in another way i seriously pity your complete lack of intelligence. (I think it's pity more than anything I have for you to be honest).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 11, 2010, 10:54:47 AM
Poppy Watch?, I'd watch these poppies............. ;D ;D ;D


(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/08/article-0-0BF91DAD000005DC-551_468x729.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 11, 2010, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.

As regards using the quote button to make it easier for you, why should I? Do you think I have to mention what I want in a format that is more aesthetically pleasing to you Maguire?

As for the pathetic use of inverted commas around my use of the word one, that says more about your limited education than mine and further debased the value of any further comments you have to make.

What I do know is if you mention SDLP or stoop at all the 'Maguire alarm' goes off and you scramble to justify whatever they done. I would wager if Ms Ritchie told you the sky was green you would believe her. You fail to engage in rationale debate on a given topic unless there is a party line or soundbite to roll out. In a way I envy your blind faith, in another way i seriously pity your complete lack of intelligence. (I think it's pity more than anything I have for you to be honest).

Pathetic
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 11, 2010, 11:14:44 AM
The whole poppy shite usually doesent bother me but the girl that sits across from me at work has put her poppy, not on her person, but on the top right hand corner of her monitor. So I got my wife to ring my mobile at 11am and put it on loud ringer so I could get out. I got a quare look. Won't be long to Ireland is free with a bucko like me about.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2010, 11:15:25 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2010, 09:30:51 PM
Just for the record I nor anyone belonging to me ever wore a poppy or ever will (I hope).  ;)

At the risk of sounding all Joan Lingard on it, trust me - it's not a big deal. Given the choice between a poppy wearer or someone who supports Tipperary . . .
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 11:17:58 AM
QuoteThe whole poppy shite usually doesent bother me but the girl that sits across from me at work has put her poppy, not on her person, but on the top right hand corner of her monitor. So I got my wife to ring my mobile at 11am and put it on loud ringer so I could get out. I got a quare look. Won't be long to Ireland is free with a bucko like me about.

:D :D :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 11:23:43 AM
Quote« Reply #125 on: Today at 10:56:14 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Banana Man on Today at 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.

As regards using the quote button to make it easier for you, why should I? Do you think I have to mention what I want in a format that is more aesthetically pleasing to you Maguire?

As for the pathetic use of inverted commas around my use of the word one, that says more about your limited education than mine and further debased the value of any further comments you have to make.

What I do know is if you mention SDLP or stoop at all the 'Maguire alarm' goes off and you scramble to justify whatever they done. I would wager if Ms Ritchie told you the sky was green you would believe her. You fail to engage in rationale debate on a given topic unless there is a party line or soundbite to roll out. In a way I envy your blind faith, in another way i seriously pity your complete lack of intelligence. (I think it's pity more than anything I have for you to be honest).


Pathetic

I tell you one society/club you weren't involved with in Trinity Gallsman and that's the Debating Society  :D

You just took a block of text and wrote pathetic. What point exactly are you referring to? Perhaps it's the entire block of text. If so would you like to add some rationale as to why you perceive it to be pathetic? Feel free to use 'evidence' (that should be fun).

I bet Nally is jealous that his stalker has replaced him now, perhaps you and Maguire are the same person... I doubt I will get an anwer though as that would require more than 2 words  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 11, 2010, 11:44:35 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 11:23:43 AM
Quote« Reply #125 on: Today at 10:56:14 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Banana Man on Today at 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.

As regards using the quote button to make it easier for you, why should I? Do you think I have to mention what I want in a format that is more aesthetically pleasing to you Maguire?

As for the pathetic use of inverted commas around my use of the word one, that says more about your limited education than mine and further debased the value of any further comments you have to make.

What I do know is if you mention SDLP or stoop at all the 'Maguire alarm' goes off and you scramble to justify whatever they done. I would wager if Ms Ritchie told you the sky was green you would believe her. You fail to engage in rationale debate on a given topic unless there is a party line or soundbite to roll out. In a way I envy your blind faith, in another way i seriously pity your complete lack of intelligence. (I think it's pity more than anything I have for you to be honest).


Pathetic

I tell you one society/club you weren't involved with in Trinity Gallsman and that's the Debating Society  :D

You just took a block of text and wrote pathetic. What point exactly are you referring to? Perhaps it's the entire block of text. If so would you like to add some rationale as to why you perceive it to be pathetic? Feel free to use 'evidence' (that should be fun).

I bet Nally is jealous that his stalker has replaced him now, perhaps you and Maguire are the same person... I doubt I will get an anwer though as that would require more than 2 words  ::)

If they would go out and do a bit of work in their constituencies they might stand a better chance of getting elected. :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 11:47:19 AM
Quote from: town lad on November 08, 2010, 11:32:15 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 08, 2010, 10:25:33 PM
Bit of a joke of with Celtic. Its not like these fans broke a law by protesting against poppy's? It wasn't rascist or anything was it? So on what charge will they be banned? This is the nasty side of the poppy where freedom of choice is removed - for f**k sake the whole teams in scotland have to have it on their jersey for one weekend!
Off course  it was not against the law. But it certainly was in bad taste. Irish Political activists should leave there grapes at the turnstiles. After all Celtic as club practically begging to get into the English Premier league.
As a nordy and a Celtic supporter I do tend to gag a bit particularly with Celtic putting the poppy on the hoops. but when you step back and consider it, the only reason we have a problem with it is because nordy prods made them in to a political symbol of Loyal British Citizenship. But Celtic are a Scottish Club with Irish roots, many players and fans fought and died in the Brittish Army. It is a fact that most states use the cannon fodder and forget them when they are home with limbs missing or mental scars, Vietnam Vets for instance. The poppy appeal has no such political conotations in the UK, many Scottish Celtic fans have no issue with this. How many soldiers really want to be in Iraq or Afghanastan? They are sent there. I am not excusing any of the actions of the Brits in the North, but they were fighting a war and following orders. It is unfortunate that Northern Loyalists have usurped the poppy....We should rise above it. I wouldn't wear one myself but have no problem with someone wearing it for genuine reasons. The Poppy Charity has been very successful at getting many organisations to show support, fair play to them. As regards Celtic can't you just hear that bigoted loyalist gobshite Campbell if they refused? A bigger issue in the new Ireland is the instance of Northern based Sports Organisations (and Rory McIlroy) in using the Loyalist Ulster Flag as a unifying symbol. Sinn Fein and The SDLP seem quite happy with this too.

To issues for the price of one guys!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 11:55:00 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2010, 07:42:19 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2010, 07:15:01 PM
I believe the SDLP leader is to wear a poppy on Sunday ... saying nothing, just putting it out there.

Sounds about right. It's not long (March '10) since her party voted for dozens of british army plaques to adorn the walls of Belfast City Hall, including several dedicated to the UDR  :-\
She even has Alex Atwood saying Nortern Ireland instead of his usual Norf!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Doogie Browser on November 11, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Clown on November 11, 2010, 12:38:38 PM
Why Celtic fans won't join in the poppy parade

The poppy is a political symbol. So why are players and fans being told to conform with the idea of wearing one?

Anyone who knows the history and traditions of Celtic Football Club would not have been too surprised to see a group of fans unfurling a huge anti-war banner at the team's ground last Saturday.

The banner, which read, 'Your deeds they would shame all the devils in hell. Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan. No blood-stained poppy on our hoops', was a protest against the club's decision to mark Remembrance Day by getting the players to wear poppies on their famous green and white hooped jerseys and hold a minute's silence before the game.

However the club's reaction to the protesters shows just how far Celtic's anti-establishment roots have been officially ditched by those running it. John Reid, club chairman and former Labour home secretary, has pledged to 'hunt down' this 'hate-mob' and ban them from Celtic Park for life. Others have described the protesting fans as 'shameful yobs and louts' and one MP, Gregory Campbell, has argued the club needs to go further to 'lance this boil'.

The demonisation and vilification of a group of people who staged a peaceful political protest would be shocking in any circumstances, but it is even more so at Celtic. To many Celtic fans, the history and ethos of the club is not only Irish, but is also closely linked to the struggle against British rule and militarism in Ireland. The club's origins can be traced to post-famine Ireland when it was founded in 1888 by the immigrant Irish priest, Brother Walfred, to raise money to feed the often-destitute Irish of Glasgow's east end. These overwhelmingly Catholic Irish suffered not only poverty but widespread discrimination. The sod of turf that sits in the centre circle of Celtic Park was planted by Michael Davitt, himself a famous Irish Republican activist who fought against British rule in Ireland.


The protest banner at Celtic Park

Throughout the 30 years of the conflict in Northern Ireland, from the late 60s to the late 90s, a significant section of Celtic fans openly supported – or at least quietly sympathised with – the IRA and Celtic games featured more Irish rebel songs than football chants. While all football derbies arouse strong passions, Celtic-Rangers games during the 'Troubles' were famously tense with boat loads of hard-line loyalists and republicans arriving from Belfast to play out their political enmities on the terraces.

Of course, all of this has changed as the peace process has brought violent conflict in Ireland to an end and seen republicans and loyalists sharing power. A new generation of homegrown Celtic fans don't mix politics and football in the way their parents did, and for many of these fans wearing a poppy is no more political than wearing a pink ribbon in support of those who have fought breast cancer or a red ribbon to remember the problem of HIV/AIDS.

But there remain a significant group of Celtic fans for whom the poppy does have meaning. For them, the officially sanctioned Remembrance Day and the wearing of the poppy represent the glorification of imperialist wars in which tens of thousands of young men were sent to their deaths by political leaders intent on defending Britain's dominant position in the world. No one watching Remembrance Sunday on television every year can be in any doubt that the laying of wreaths by the royal family, alongside the presence of the country's political leaders and the military top brass, mixes remembering the dead with an official display of support for Britain's military adventures abroad – past and present.

But whether you make a personal decision to wear a poppy or not is not the issue here. Celtic fans know to their cost that the clampdown on fans unfurling a banner is only the latest in a long series of restrictions on any expressions of political opinions by fans. Under the guise of campaigns against sectarianism and to 'kick racism out of football', Celtic fans have already faced a bewildering barrage of bans and rules proscribing what they can say, sing or chant before, during and after watching their team. Yet the same club that has done so much to cleanse Celtic of any whiff of politics has now chosen to bring politics onto the pitch by telling players and fans to observe the official commemoration of the UK's war dead and wear a poppy on their jerseys.



The latest controversy is less about the poppy than the degrading illiberal treatment meted out to a section of football fans for daring to challenge the football hierarchy. For more than 80 years the poppy and football were separate. Now, when the football authorities decide to mix politics with football, those fans who object are vilified and banned. Anyone who cares about civil liberties and freedom of speech should be extremely alarmed by the attack on both by those running football in Scotland.

Jon Snow, Channel 4 news broadcaster, has been mocked this week for re-staging his annual outburst against 'poppy fascism' in protest at the pressure put on TV presenters to wear a poppy. (Snow is on shaky ground having made a song-and-dance about his right to wear a white wristband in support of Make Poverty History back in 2005, with the implication that others should be doing the same.) But I think Snow reacts every year not for effect but because each year the expectation to conform seems to spread. As well as poppies at football games, this year for the first time the traffic lights in central London will stay on red for several minutes and busy Londoners will be asked to stay quiet and still as a section of the city grinds to a halt.

Many people who wear poppies do so as a genuine sign of respect and gratitude to those who sacrificed everything for the greater good while many others wear it as an open expression of support for Britain's armed forces. There are also people who wear the poppy simply because they are expected to. But some of us refuse to wear a poppy on principle because we don't support Britain's military adventures past or present and choose to remember those who died in wars in ways and at times of our own choosing. Whichever position you take, the poppy is a political emblem and it diminishes politics and our political opinions to pretend otherwise.

We are repeatedly told on Remembrance Sunday that those who have fallen gave their lives that we should be free – sadly that freedom has been denied to those fans who expressed their opinions at Celtic Park last week.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 11, 2010, 12:50:35 PM
Quote from: Clown on November 11, 2010, 12:38:38 PM
Why Celtic fans won't join in the poppy parade

The poppy is a political symbol. So why are players and fans being told to conform with the idea of wearing one?

Anyone who knows the history and traditions of Celtic Football Club would not have been too surprised to see a group of fans unfurling a huge anti-war banner at the team's ground last Saturday.

The banner, which read, 'Your deeds they would shame all the devils in hell. Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan. No blood-stained poppy on our hoops', was a protest against the club's decision to mark Remembrance Day by getting the players to wear poppies on their famous green and white hooped jerseys and hold a minute's silence before the game.

However the club's reaction to the protesters shows just how far Celtic's anti-establishment roots have been officially ditched by those running it. John Reid, club chairman and former Labour home secretary, has pledged to 'hunt down' this 'hate-mob' and ban them from Celtic Park for life. Others have described the protesting fans as 'shameful yobs and louts' and one MP, Gregory Campbell, has argued the club needs to go further to 'lance this boil'.

The demonisation and vilification of a group of people who staged a peaceful political protest would be shocking in any circumstances, but it is even more so at Celtic. To many Celtic fans, the history and ethos of the club is not only Irish, but is also closely linked to the struggle against British rule and militarism in Ireland. The club's origins can be traced to post-famine Ireland when it was founded in 1888 by the immigrant Irish priest, Brother Walfred, to raise money to feed the often-destitute Irish of Glasgow's east end. These overwhelmingly Catholic Irish suffered not only poverty but widespread discrimination. The sod of turf that sits in the centre circle of Celtic Park was planted by Michael Davitt, himself a famous Irish Republican activist who fought against British rule in Ireland.


The protest banner at Celtic Park

Throughout the 30 years of the conflict in Northern Ireland, from the late 60s to the late 90s, a significant section of Celtic fans openly supported – or at least quietly sympathised with – the IRA and Celtic games featured more Irish rebel songs than football chants. While all football derbies arouse strong passions, Celtic-Rangers games during the 'Troubles' were famously tense with boat loads of hard-line loyalists and republicans arriving from Belfast to play out their political enmities on the terraces.

Of course, all of this has changed as the peace process has brought violent conflict in Ireland to an end and seen republicans and loyalists sharing power. A new generation of homegrown Celtic fans don't mix politics and football in the way their parents did, and for many of these fans wearing a poppy is no more political than wearing a pink ribbon in support of those who have fought breast cancer or a red ribbon to remember the problem of HIV/AIDS.

But there remain a significant group of Celtic fans for whom the poppy does have meaning. For them, the officially sanctioned Remembrance Day and the wearing of the poppy represent the glorification of imperialist wars in which tens of thousands of young men were sent to their deaths by political leaders intent on defending Britain's dominant position in the world. No one watching Remembrance Sunday on television every year can be in any doubt that the laying of wreaths by the royal family, alongside the presence of the country's political leaders and the military top brass, mixes remembering the dead with an official display of support for Britain's military adventures abroad – past and present.

But whether you make a personal decision to wear a poppy or not is not the issue here. Celtic fans know to their cost that the clampdown on fans unfurling a banner is only the latest in a long series of restrictions on any expressions of political opinions by fans. Under the guise of campaigns against sectarianism and to 'kick racism out of football', Celtic fans have already faced a bewildering barrage of bans and rules proscribing what they can say, sing or chant before, during and after watching their team. Yet the same club that has done so much to cleanse Celtic of any whiff of politics has now chosen to bring politics onto the pitch by telling players and fans to observe the official commemoration of the UK's war dead and wear a poppy on their jerseys.



The latest controversy is less about the poppy than the degrading illiberal treatment meted out to a section of football fans for daring to challenge the football hierarchy. For more than 80 years the poppy and football were separate. Now, when the football authorities decide to mix politics with football, those fans who object are vilified and banned. Anyone who cares about civil liberties and freedom of speech should be extremely alarmed by the attack on both by those running football in Scotland.

Jon Snow, Channel 4 news broadcaster, has been mocked this week for re-staging his annual outburst against 'poppy fascism' in protest at the pressure put on TV presenters to wear a poppy. (Snow is on shaky ground having made a song-and-dance about his right to wear a white wristband in support of Make Poverty History back in 2005, with the implication that others should be doing the same.) But I think Snow reacts every year not for effect but because each year the expectation to conform seems to spread. As well as poppies at football games, this year for the first time the traffic lights in central London will stay on red for several minutes and busy Londoners will be asked to stay quiet and still as a section of the city grinds to a halt.

Many people who wear poppies do so as a genuine sign of respect and gratitude to those who sacrificed everything for the greater good while many others wear it as an open expression of support for Britain's armed forces. There are also people who wear the poppy simply because they are expected to. But some of us refuse to wear a poppy on principle because we don't support Britain's military adventures past or present and choose to remember those who died in wars in ways and at times of our own choosing. Whichever position you take, the poppy is a political emblem and it diminishes politics and our political opinions to pretend otherwise.

We are repeatedly told on Remembrance Sunday that those who have fallen gave their lives that we should be free – sadly that freedom has been denied to those fans who expressed their opinions at Celtic Park last week.

+1 very well said clown,even though I don't support Celtic or have any interest in Celtic i totally agree with your sentiments.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 11, 2010, 01:03:57 PM
They aren't Clowns words.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 11, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Agreed
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Clown on November 11, 2010, 01:36:47 PM
yes not my words, sorry for any assumptions of plagiarism!

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/9884/?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 11, 2010, 01:38:42 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2010, 01:03:57 PM
They aren't Clowns words.

Oh right sorry is that a statement from the Celtic support?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Zapatista on November 11, 2010, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 11, 2010, 01:38:42 PM

Oh right sorry is that a statement from the Celtic support?

QuoteKevin Rooney teaches government and politics at a London school.

Title: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5 Sams on November 11, 2010, 02:39:23 PM
Further to the earlier pics of Carol and daughter...

(http://media.entertainment.sky.com/image/unscaled/2010/11/10/Carol-Vorderman-1110-8.jpg)


Here's another poppy....I'll bet none of yiz would mind getting your hands that one!! :o
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 11, 2010, 05:19:12 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 11, 2010, 02:39:23 PM
Here's another poppy....I'll bet none of yiz would mind getting your hands that one!! :o

In solidarity with the anti-poppy brigade I would rip it off her, and if that caused further "wardrobe malfunctions" along the way..............well, sh1t happens!

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Sandino on November 11, 2010, 05:34:18 PM
I see on the BBC that Margaret Ritchie is going to wear a Poppy at Sundays Remembrance Day service. Jim I hope you can behave yourself on that occasion.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 11, 2010, 05:36:07 PM
Quote from: Sandino on November 11, 2010, 05:34:18 PM
I see on the BBC that Margaret Ritchie is going to wear a Poppy at Sundays Remembrance Day service. Jim I hope you can behave yourself on that occasion.
LMAO
he might have turned into a 'dirty old man' but I dont think he has gone 'blind' yet !!

(I didnt actually see the poppies on any of those pics until Jim pointed them out !!)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 11, 2010, 05:39:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 11, 2010, 05:36:07 PM
(I didnt actually see the poppies on any of those pics until Jim pointed them out !!)

And I'm the dirty old man!

You don't work for PWC by ay chance  ;D ;D

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 11, 2010, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 11, 2010, 05:39:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 11, 2010, 05:36:07 PM
(I didnt actually see the poppies on any of those pics until Jim pointed them out !!)
And I'm the dirty old man!
You don't work for PWC by ay chance  ;D ;D
I know !
...I just dont accept that i'm old yet !
(sure I was a 'dirty young man' previously !!)

pwc - spit - nah, I can handle money and actually have to perform real work !!
(not getting into a place on the pretence of an 'audit' and spend 75% of the time trying to find ways to bring bigger groups of pwc colleagues into the place and earn pot loads of cash from the poor victim/unsuspecting company)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 11, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Agreed

(http://www.callcentrehelper.com/CC_graphics2/fingers-crossed.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 11, 2010, 06:42:47 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser link=topic=17811.msg878962#msg878962date=1289476876
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Agreed

(http://www.callcentrehelper.com/CC_graphics2/fingers-crossed.jpg)

So who would nationalists, that would never dream of voting
SF, vote for? Should they not have representation Nally?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Worker on November 11, 2010, 06:43:28 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2010, 06:42:47 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser link=topic=17811.msg878962#msg878962date=1289476876
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Agreed

(http://www.callcentrehelper.com/CC_graphics2/fingers-crossed.jpg)

So who would nationalists, that would never dream of voting
SF, vote for? Should they not have representation Nally?

Independents?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: SHEEDY on November 11, 2010, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 11, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Agreed

(http://www.callcentrehelper.com/CC_graphics2/fingers-crossed.jpg)

ritchie is the most hated politician in lots of areas of south down and that includes the unionists. her only support is in her home town of downpatrick and with unionists determined to keep the shinners out at any cost. her decision to wear a poppy just shows how out of touch the sdlp have become with working class nationlists.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 11, 2010, 06:52:21 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.
But an African leader would have no relevance to a discussion on the poppy. The poppy represents the fallen crown forces. The link is quite clear. I just questioned why someone would think that it's great that someone isn't wearing a poppy when they meet a member of the royal family. That's not a tangent; it's developing the discussion.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:03:19 AM
As regards using the quote button to make it easier for you, why should I? Do you think I have to mention what I want in a format that is more aesthetically pleasing to you Maguire?
You don't have to. You can continue to look like you haven't figured out how it works. It's so that your post makes sense - to see who said what. It was merely a suggestion.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:03:19 AM
As for the pathetic use of inverted commas around my use of the word one, that says more about your limited education than mine and further debased the value of any further comments you have to make.
Humour isn't your strong point then. It was a joke, based on the discussion being about the royals.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:03:19 AM
What I do know is if you mention SDLP or stoop at all the 'Maguire alarm' goes off and you scramble to justify whatever they done. I would wager if Ms Ritchie told you the sky was green you would believe her. You fail to engage in rationale debate on a given topic unless there is a party line or soundbite to roll out. In a way I envy your blind faith, in another way i seriously pity your complete lack of intelligence. (I think it's pity more than anything I have for you to be honest).
How was this about the SDLP?
For the record, I don't have any loyalty to any political party, nor am I a member of any political party. If the SDLP do something I disagree with, i'll say it. For the record, whilst I think Margaret Ritchie is an able politician, I don't think she's a party leader and will happily agree that she's a terrible public speaker.

At the same time, if the usual SF posters on here go off on one, i'll feel free to weigh in with my opinion. It is a discussion board after all. It brings a bit of balance.


As for my "lack of intelligence" and "limited education" what do you base that on?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 11, 2010, 06:53:55 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 11:23:43 AM
I bet Nally is jealous that his stalker has replaced him now, perhaps you and Maguire are the same person... I doubt I will get an anwer though as that would require more than 2 words  ::)
Are you and Nally the same person?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 11, 2010, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 11, 2010, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 11, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Agreed

(http://www.callcentrehelper.com/CC_graphics2/fingers-crossed.jpg)

ritchie is the most hated politician in lots of areas of south down and that includes the unionists. her only support is in her home town of downpatrick and with unionists determined to keep the shinners out at any cost. her decision to wear a poppy just shows how out of touch the sdlp have become with working class nationlists.
Yet critically, the most popular in all of South Down.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 07:09:28 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2010, 06:42:47 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser link=topic=17811.msg878962#msg878962date=1289476876
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Agreed

(http://www.callcentrehelper.com/CC_graphics2/fingers-crossed.jpg)

So who would nationalists, that would never dream of voting
SF, vote for? Should they not have representation Nally?

Should nationalists have representation?  Was that a serious question?  :D Ok.... in case it was... YES MINDER. YES THEY SHOULD.

Who should nationalists vote for? - Why the fcuk do you ask me?
If she were to be "the ruination of the stoops" that would mean they were ruined because she would have turned them into a party who nobody would want to vote for, so if people decided in such numbers to not vote sdlp, thus causing the ruination of them, why ask me who they should vote for? Whoever they feel like voting for I would imagine, that's up to themselves.

You seem to think I am calling for the sdlp to be dismantled ffs. There's a difference between that, and hoping they become a party which reaches ruination due to lack of support (which seems to be what maggie is trying to to with them these times).

I don't think I was denying democracy when I hoped the PD's in the south reached ruination either  :-\
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: SHEEDY on November 11, 2010, 07:17:41 PM
october 2010: british troops burn fields of poppies to curb the heroin trade stemming from afghanistan.

november 2010: muslim protestors burn paper poppies in protest against british troops.

GREAT COMEBACK GUYS.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Mid Down Gael on November 11, 2010, 07:59:46 PM
See Malachi Cush refrained from wearing the poppy on 7.30 show on UTV. Fair play.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 11, 2010, 08:28:41 PM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on November 11, 2010, 07:59:46 PM
See Malachi Cush refrained from wearing the poppy on 7.30 show on UTV. Fair play.

Do people watch that show?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Mid Down Gael on November 11, 2010, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2010, 08:28:41 PM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on November 11, 2010, 07:59:46 PM
See Malachi Cush refrained from wearing the poppy on 7.30 show on UTV. Fair play.

Do people watch that show?

I just flicked over and seen he was only one in studio with no poppy. Not a fan of the show though just to get that clear.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rois on November 11, 2010, 08:42:21 PM
I thought of this thread this morning when I had the ITV Breakfast programme on, the one with Christine Bleakley.  They'd sent Grainne Seoige out to Afghanistan to interview British troops on 11/11 and gave her a poppy to wear - she was reporting live this morn.  Just seemed a bit strange - this seems to me to be a British occasion, why would they send an Irish person over to a British Army camp?  Bizzare.

ps couldn't give a monkeys about the poppy, won't be wearing one as the wars mean nothing to me.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:05:57 PM
QuoteQuote from: Banana Man on Today at 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.

But an African leader would have no relevance to a discussion on the poppy. The poppy represents the fallen crown forces. The link is quite clear. I just questioned why someone would think that it's great that someone isn't wearing a poppy when they meet a member of the royal family. That's not a tangent; it's developing the discussion.

You just proved my point Maguire against yourself, thanks for that. An African leader in the photo has no relevance to the discussion of poppies just like the mistress of Charles Windsor has no relevance to it so why would i mention it. I reiteriate that if you want to discuss Irish personalities meeting with the royals then start a separate topic and I will gladly contribute to the debate (provided you can stay on topic of course).


QuoteAs for my "lack of intelligence" and "limited education" what do you base that on?

I base it on your inability to follow the flow of a discussion and offer reasoned and structured debate, how's that for ya ya boy ya
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2010, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: Rois on November 11, 2010, 08:42:21 PM
I thought of this thread this morning when I had the ITV Breakfast programme on, the one with Christine Bleakley.  They'd sent Grainne Seoige out to Afghanistan to interview British troops on 11/11 and gave her a poppy to wear - she was reporting live this morn.  Just seemed a bit strange - this seems to me to be a British occasion, why would they send an Irish person over to a British Army camp?  Bizzare.

ps couldn't give a monkeys about the poppy, won't be wearing one as the wars mean nothing to me.
If it's her job to report from these places why would her nationality prevent her from doing so? Are Jews not allowed to report from Germany or blacks from Mississippi?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 11, 2010, 09:31:54 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2010, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: Rois on November 11, 2010, 08:42:21 PM
I thought of this thread this morning when I had the ITV Breakfast programme on, the one with Christine Bleakley.  They'd sent Grainne Seoige out to Afghanistan to interview British troops on 11/11 and gave her a poppy to wear - she was reporting live this morn.  Just seemed a bit strange - this seems to me to be a British occasion, why would they send an Irish person over to a British Army camp?  Bizzare.

ps couldn't give a monkeys about the poppy, won't be wearing one as the wars mean nothing to me.
If it's her job to report from these places why would her nationality prevent her from doing so? Are Jews not allowed to report from Germany or blacks from Mississippi?

Yeh but I wonder how does this poppy thing work in reality? Like does some TV makeup person come over and give you one and tell you that you must wear it or do they ask you if you would like to wear it. Either way its amazing how people who would ordinarily not wear one will so easily allow themselves to be forced to wear one. I don't have an issue with someone wearing one but if someone told me I had to wear one I'd tell them to stick it up their arse.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: boojangles on November 11, 2010, 10:17:26 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 11, 2010, 09:31:54 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2010, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: Rois on November 11, 2010, 08:42:21 PM
I thought of this thread this morning when I had the ITV Breakfast programme on, the one with Christine Bleakley.  They'd sent Grainne Seoige out to Afghanistan to interview British troops on 11/11 and gave her a poppy to wear - she was reporting live this morn.  Just seemed a bit strange - this seems to me to be a British occasion, why would they send an Irish person over to a British Army camp?  Bizzare.

ps couldn't give a monkeys about the poppy, won't be wearing one as the wars mean nothing to me.
If it's her job to report from these places why would her nationality prevent her from doing so? Are Jews not allowed to report from Germany or blacks from Mississippi?

Yeh but I wonder how does this poppy thing work in reality? Like does some TV makeup person come over and give you one and tell you that you must wear it or do they ask you if you would like to wear it. Either way its amazing how people who would ordinarily not wear one will so easily allow themselves to be forced to wear one. I don't have an issue with someone wearing one but if someone told me I had to wear one I'd tell them to stick it up their arse.

Ye seen Grainne wearing it this morning. I'd love to know was it her choice or is it forced?? Its not the BBC she's working for but I suppose they all love their poppies across the water.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 11, 2010, 10:33:49 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:05:57 PM
QuoteQuote from: Banana Man on Today at 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.

But an African leader would have no relevance to a discussion on the poppy. The poppy represents the fallen crown forces. The link is quite clear. I just questioned why someone would think that it's great that someone isn't wearing a poppy when they meet a member of the royal family. That's not a tangent; it's developing the discussion.

You just proved my point Maguire against yourself, thanks for that. An African leader in the photo has no relevance to the discussion of poppies just like the mistress of Charles Windsor has no relevance to it so why would i mention it. I reiteriate that if you want to discuss Irish personalities meeting with the royals then start a separate topic and I will gladly contribute to the debate (provided you can stay on topic of course).
You're not grasping this at all.
You think it's bad to wear the poppy, commemorating deceased members of the crown forces... yet it's grand to hang out with the wife of the heir to that same crown and the  Commander-in-Chief of those same forces. That's the link. Simple. If it was the head of an African state, there wouldn't have been a link.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:05:57 PM
QuoteAs for my "lack of intelligence" and "limited education" what do you base that on?

I base it on your inability to follow the flow of a discussion and offer reasoned and structured debate, how's that for ya ya boy ya
I followed it perfectly. I just wanted to explore one aspect of your comment.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 11, 2010, 10:57:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 07:09:28 PM
Should nationalists have representation?  Was that a serious question?  :D Ok.... in case it was... YES MINDER. YES THEY SHOULD.

Yet you wouldn't stop crying your eyes out and shitting your pants when they refused to withdraw Fearghal McKinney in FST?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tyrone exile on November 12, 2010, 12:21:59 AM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on November 11, 2010, 07:59:46 PM
See Malachi Cush refrained from wearing the poppy on 7.30 show on UTV. Fair play.
He was wearing one, underneath his left collar, you could only notice it when the camera was faced onto him, sly boy! I also do not watch the show, just so people dont get the wrong impression!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2010, 01:03:31 AM
Well just back from the pub and near the end myself and my Unionist friend had a bit of a fall out over her poppy. I said nothing all night until one of my English mates pointed out it attached to her bag and that O ***** won't have liked that. She asked me what my problem was with supporting "our boys" and "their sacrifice" it got pretty heated and only ended well coz I agreed to disagree coz she has a savage arse and even while arguing I couldn't take my eyes of it and I really think I have a chance bar the fact that she thinks I'm a raving Provo, which most lads here will think absurd  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ballinaman on November 12, 2010, 01:29:32 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2010, 01:03:31 AM
Well just back from the pub and near the end myself and my Unionist friend had a bit of a fall out over her poppy. I said nothing all night until one of my English mates pointed out it attached to her bag and that O ***** won't have liked that. She asked me what my problem was with supporting "our boys" and "their sacrifice" it got pretty heated and only ended well coz I agreed to disagree coz she has a savage arse and even while arguing I couldn't take my eyes of it and I really think I have a chance bar the fact that she thinks I'm a raving Provo, which most lads here will think absurd  ;D
Well played, get  priorities straight....savage arse or high ground....arse everyday :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Never beat the deeler on November 12, 2010, 01:55:05 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on November 12, 2010, 01:29:32 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2010, 01:03:31 AM
Well just back from the pub and near the end myself and my Unionist friend had a bit of a fall out over her poppy. I said nothing all night until one of my English mates pointed out it attached to her bag and that O ***** won't have liked that. She asked me what my problem was with supporting "our boys" and "their sacrifice" it got pretty heated and only ended well coz I agreed to disagree coz she has a savage arse and even while arguing I couldn't take my eyes of it and I really think I have a chance bar the fact that she thinks I'm a raving Provo, which most lads here will think absurd  ;D
Well played, get  priorities straight....savage arse or high ground....arse everyday :D

Hang on,, how were ya looking at her arse while ya were arguing?! Was she looking over shoulder or something?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ballinaman on November 12, 2010, 02:38:55 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on November 12, 2010, 01:55:05 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on November 12, 2010, 01:29:32 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2010, 01:03:31 AM
Well just back from the pub and near the end myself and my Unionist friend had a bit of a fall out over her poppy. I said nothing all night until one of my English mates pointed out it attached to her bag and that O ***** won't have liked that. She asked me what my problem was with supporting "our boys" and "their sacrifice" it got pretty heated and only ended well coz I agreed to disagree coz she has a savage arse and even while arguing I couldn't take my eyes of it and I really think I have a chance bar the fact that she thinks I'm a raving Provo, which most lads here will think absurd  ;D
Well played, get  priorities straight....savage arse or high ground....arse everyday :D

Hang on,, how were ya looking at her arse while ya were arguing?! Was she looking over shoulder or something?
anything is possible deeler....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9al-mpqXjc
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 12, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
So I gave $5 for a poppy today. I didn't take one - am I still ok to post here/still an Irish man???
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on November 12, 2010, 05:47:34 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 12, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
So I gave $5 for a poppy today. I didn't take one - am I still ok to post here/still an Irish man???

Depends if it was a dud or not ;).....I think it puts you in the same category as Tony Cascarino :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 12, 2010, 10:11:05 AM
I was at a school concert in Cookstown last night. About 300 people in attendance and not one poppy in sight.

What an outrage!

I'm penning a strong worded letter to my member of the british parliament   member of local britsh administration parish priest.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:13:01 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 11, 2010, 10:57:40 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 07:09:28 PM
Should nationalists have representation?  Was that a serious question?  :D Ok.... in case it was... YES MINDER. YES THEY SHOULD.

Yet you wouldn't stop crying your eyes out and shitting your pants when they refused to withdraw Fearghal McKinney in FST?

:D :D :D
You a bit slow on the uptake? I had hoped the stoops would pull out of FST in order to ENSURE that the only nationalist who actually had a chance of winning would win, hence ensuring the (mainly nationalist) constituency would be REPRESENTED by... that's right....A NATIONALIST. Complicated I know, but keep thinking about it.

Actually, given the stoops refusal to withdraw, knowing full well that McKinney didn't stand a chance in hell of getting elected, any rational observer would have to assume that they knowingly attempted to prevent the nationalists of FST being represented by a nationalist simply because that nationalist was from SF. They clearly anticipated a spilt nationalist vote, which they expected would deliver a tory MP, which would have suited their "anyone but SF" ethos down to the ground. Kinda denying representation to nationalists, that tactic.

p.s. Thankfully, the good people of FST abandoned the stoops in droves and showed maggie ritchie the middle finger in response to her political "strategy" of screwing them over so as to facilitate the OO/Tory/DUP alliances bid to defeat the only nationalist who stood a chance:

                                                                           (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00253/mich1_253302t.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Zapatista on November 12, 2010, 10:16:52 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 12, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
So I gave $5 for a poppy today. I didn't take one - am I still ok to post here/still an Irish man???

If you give a fiver and get nothing in return then you are the ultimate Irish man. Usually we'd get a stick of gum at least for a fiver.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2010, 10:19:12 AM
That wasn't the question you were asked though? Minder asked you if nationalists who don't want to vote Sinn Fein are entitled to vote for someone they see fit to represent them, and you said "yes". QED.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2010, 10:22:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:13:01 AM
Actually, given the stoops refusal to withdraw, knowing full well that McKinney didn't stand a chance in hell of getting elected, any rational observer would have to assume that they knowingly attempted to prevent the nationalists of FST being represented by a nationalist simply because that nationalist was from SF. They clearly anticipated a spilt nationalist vote, which they expected would deliver a tory MP, which would have suited their "anyone but SF" ethos down to the ground. Kinda denying representation to nationalists, that tactic.

You consider that rational?

"Because they did this it meant this"

Once again I must point out the flaws in your understanding of democracy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Zapatista on November 12, 2010, 10:23:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:13:01 AM
:D :D :D
You a bit slow on the uptake? I had hoped the stoops would pull out of FST in order to ENSURE that the only nationalist who actually had a chance of winning would win, hence ensuring the (mainly nationalist) constituency would be REPRESENTED by... that's right....A NATIONALIST. Complicated I know, but keep thinking about it.

Actually, given the stoops refusal to withdraw, knowing full well that McKinney didn't stand a chance in hell of getting elected, any rational observer would have to assume that they knowingly attempted to prevent the nationalists of FST being represented by a nationalist simply because that nationalist was from SF. They clearly anticipated a spilt nationalist vote, which they expected would deliver a tory MP, which would have suited their "anyone but SF" ethos down to the ground. Kinda denying representation to nationalists, that tactic.

p.s. Thankfully, the good people of FST abandoned the stoops in droves and showed maggie ritchie the middle finger in response to her political "strategy" of screwing them over so as to facilitate the OO/Tory/DUP alliances bid to defeat the only nationalist who stood a chance     

This is what bugs me about the whole thing. There is no merit in supporting a candidate if they are only voted for being Nationalist. BEing a Nationalist is a stupid reason to elect someone and the SDLP were right to stand there ground.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Zapatista on November 12, 2010, 10:25:19 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2010, 10:22:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:13:01 AM
Actually, given the stoops refusal to withdraw, knowing full well that McKinney didn't stand a chance in hell of getting elected, any rational observer would have to assume that they knowingly attempted to prevent the nationalists of FST being represented by a nationalist simply because that nationalist was from SF. They clearly anticipated a spilt nationalist vote, which they expected would deliver a tory MP, which would have suited their "anyone but SF" ethos down to the ground. Kinda denying representation to nationalists, that tactic.

You consider that rational?

"Because they did this it meant this"

Once again I must point out the flaws in your understanding of democracy.

Maybe they were more concerned about SFs agriculture policy and wanted to take them out for that reason?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:50:35 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2010, 10:19:12 AM
That wasn't the question you were asked though? Minder asked you if nationalists who don't want to vote Sinn Fein are entitled to vote for someone they see fit to represent them, and you said "yes". QED.

Yes but as mentioned, the stoop stood no chance of getting elected. Not ever party stands in every constituency in Ireland for similar reasons.
p.s. That isn't what he asked, he asked if there was no sdlp, should nationalists not have representation, and who they should vote for. I answered both.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:55:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2010, 10:22:59 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:13:01 AM
Actually, given the stoops refusal to withdraw, knowing full well that McKinney didn't stand a chance in hell of getting elected, any rational observer would have to assume that they knowingly attempted to prevent the nationalists of FST being represented by a nationalist simply because that nationalist was from SF. They clearly anticipated a spilt nationalist vote, which they expected would deliver a tory MP, which would have suited their "anyone but SF" ethos down to the ground. Kinda denying representation to nationalists, that tactic.

You consider that rational?

"Because they did this it meant this"

Once again I must point out the flaws in your understanding of democracy.
You must? Why didn't you? FST still really hurts with you doesn't it? Don't worry, Rodney Conner will get another chance some day. Chin up.

(Pointing out what you perceive as the intellectual flaws of others? Not this old snobbery again gallsman)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 11:04:12 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 12, 2010, 10:23:41 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:13:01 AM
:D :D :D
You a bit slow on the uptake? I had hoped the stoops would pull out of FST in order to ENSURE that the only nationalist who actually had a chance of winning would win, hence ensuring the (mainly nationalist) constituency would be REPRESENTED by... that's right....A NATIONALIST. Complicated I know, but keep thinking about it.

Actually, given the stoops refusal to withdraw, knowing full well that McKinney didn't stand a chance in hell of getting elected, any rational observer would have to assume that they knowingly attempted to prevent the nationalists of FST being represented by a nationalist simply because that nationalist was from SF. They clearly anticipated a spilt nationalist vote, which they expected would deliver a tory MP, which would have suited their "anyone but SF" ethos down to the ground. Kinda denying representation to nationalists, that tactic.

p.s. Thankfully, the good people of FST abandoned the stoops in droves and showed maggie ritchie the middle finger in response to her political "strategy" of screwing them over so as to facilitate the OO/Tory/DUP alliances bid to defeat the only nationalist who stood a chance     

This is what bugs me about the whole thing. There is no merit in supporting a candidate if they are only voted for being Nationalist. BEing a Nationalist is a stupid reason to elect someone and the SDLP were right to stand there ground.

In a perfect world zap, but burying our heads in the sand and hoping the constitutional issue will resolve itself and the centuries old traditions involved will suddenly co-operate nicely, just isn't realistic. Nationalism & unionism are both perfectly legitimate political philosophies which are understandably, hugely important to people. No head burying or wishful thinking about not voting along such lines will change that. Being a nationalist or unionist does not automatically make you sectarian and as such, voting along nationalist/unionist lines does not make you sectarian. It just means you are voting for the candidate who best suits your own political views. Nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 12, 2010, 11:05:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 11, 2010, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 11, 2010, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 11, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Agreed

(http://www.callcentrehelper.com/CC_graphics2/fingers-crossed.jpg)

ritchie is the most hated politician in lots of areas of south down and that includes the unionists. her only support is in her home town of downpatrick and with unionists determined to keep the shinners out at any cost. her decision to wear a poppy just shows how out of touch the sdlp have become with working class nationlists.
Yet critically, the most popular in all of South Down.
Not necessarily true South Down voted against Caitriona Ruane rather than for Margaret Richie, if I had to choose between these two and Ian Og I would vote Ian Og!!! :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 12, 2010, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 11, 2010, 10:33:49 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:05:57 PM
QuoteQuote from: Banana Man on Today at 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.

But an African leader would have no relevance to a discussion on the poppy. The poppy represents the fallen crown forces. The link is quite clear. I just questioned why someone would think that it's great that someone isn't wearing a poppy when they meet a member of the royal family. That's not a tangent; it's developing the discussion.

You just proved my point Maguire against yourself, thanks for that. An African leader in the photo has no relevance to the discussion of poppies just like the mistress of Charles Windsor has no relevance to it so why would i mention it. I reiteriate that if you want to discuss Irish personalities meeting with the royals then start a separate topic and I will gladly contribute to the debate (provided you can stay on topic of course).
You're not grasping this at all.
You think it's bad to wear the poppy, commemorating deceased members of the crown forces... yet it's grand to hang out with the wife of the heir to that same crown and the  Commander-in-Chief of those same forces. That's the link. Simple. If it was the head of an African state, there wouldn't have been a link.


I haven't once commented on whether or not it is grand to hang out with anyone, I am trying to discuss the wearing of poppies. And it is increasingly difficult to maintain the focus when you keep trying to divert of on a tangent to give you some pathetic chink of light to grasp at to maintain your part in the discussion.

I repeat, if you want to discuss meeting members of a foreign monarchy feel free to start a new topic and put your points on that and I will engage you on that debate bt if you can't maintain focus on one emblem I dismay at the prospect of you trying to deal with an entire family including teir mistresses
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2010, 11:25:03 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:50:35 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2010, 10:19:12 AM
That wasn't the question you were asked though? Minder asked you if nationalists who don't want to vote Sinn Fein are entitled to vote for someone they see fit to represent them, and you said "yes". QED.

Yes but as mentioned, the stoop stood no chance of getting elected. Not ever party stands in every constituency in Ireland for similar reasons.
p.s. That isn't what he asked, he asked if there was no sdlp, should nationalists not have representation, and who they should vote for. I answered both.

So f**k? Some people wanted to vote SDLP, McKinney's candidacy provided them that opportunity.

Excat same principal as telling someone not to try because they'll never succeed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Zapatista on November 12, 2010, 11:31:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 11:04:12 AM
In a perfect world zap, but burying our heads in the sand and hoping the constitutional issue will resolve itself and the centuries old traditions involved will suddenly co-operate nicely, just isn't realistic. Nationalism & unionism are both perfectly legitimate political philosophies which are understandably, hugely important to people. No head burying or wishful thinking about not voting along such lines will change that. Being a nationalist or unionist does not automatically make you sectarian and as such, voting along nationalist/unionist lines does not make you sectarian. It just means you are voting for the candidate who best suits your own political views. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree completly but SF and the SDLP subscibe to completly different versions of Nationalism. They have little or nothing in common on the 'national issue'. To tell the people of F&ST that SF and the SDLP are nationalist and therefore the same is wrong.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 11:35:46 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2010, 11:25:03 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 10:50:35 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2010, 10:19:12 AM
That wasn't the question you were asked though? Minder asked you if nationalists who don't want to vote Sinn Fein are entitled to vote for someone they see fit to represent them, and you said "yes". QED.

Yes but as mentioned, the stoop stood no chance of getting elected. Not ever party stands in every constituency in Ireland for similar reasons.
p.s. That isn't what he asked, he asked if there was no sdlp, should nationalists not have representation, and who they should vote for. I answered both.

So f**k? Some people wanted to vote SDLP, McKinney's candidacy provided them that opportunity.

Excat same principal as telling someone not to try because they'll never succeed.

So parties are being totally undemocratic by not standing where they know they wouldn't stand a chance? Is that why the stoops don't put their noses anywhere south of FST? Very undemocratic that, then. I always thought that was due to partitionism alone  :-\

Oh well, I've no intention of getting side tracked into a debate about FST. That one is long gone, and we all know how it ended.

So, where were we? Oh yes... poppies...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 12, 2010, 12:08:04 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 12, 2010, 11:31:43 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 12, 2010, 11:04:12 AM
In a perfect world zap, but burying our heads in the sand and hoping the constitutional issue will resolve itself and the centuries old traditions involved will suddenly co-operate nicely, just isn't realistic. Nationalism & unionism are both perfectly legitimate political philosophies which are understandably, hugely important to people. No head burying or wishful thinking about not voting along such lines will change that. Being a nationalist or unionist does not automatically make you sectarian and as such, voting along nationalist/unionist lines does not make you sectarian. It just means you are voting for the candidate who best suits your own political views. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree completly but SF and the SDLP subscibe to completly different versions of Nationalism. They have little or nothing in common on the 'national issue'. To tell the people of F&ST that SF and the SDLP are nationalist and therefore the same is wrong.
The SDLP are no longer a nationalist party, they are accepting of the status quo and Sinn Fein are starting down the same path.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Zapatista on November 12, 2010, 12:45:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2010, 12:08:04 PM
The SDLP are no longer a nationalist party, they are accepting of the status quo and Sinn Fein are starting down the same path.

S owe kind of agree that they have nothing in common on that topic therefore there is no reason for the SDLP not to stand in F&ST.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 12, 2010, 02:18:27 PM
Meanwhile, back on the subject of the Poppy and remembrance etc, this might be of interest to Donegal folk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCLvQRjdBm8



Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2010, 02:53:52 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 11, 2010, 02:39:23 PM
Further to the earlier pics of Carol and daughter...

(http://media.entertainment.sky.com/image/unscaled/2010/11/10/Carol-Vorderman-1110-8.jpg)


Here's another poppy....I'll bet none of yiz would mind getting your hands that one!! :o

def had botox and plastic surgery ...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5 Sams on November 12, 2010, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2010, 02:53:52 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 11, 2010, 02:39:23 PM
Further to the earlier pics of Carol and daughter...

(http://media.entertainment.sky.com/image/unscaled/2010/11/10/Carol-Vorderman-1110-8.jpg)


Here's another poppy....I'll bet none of yiz would mind getting your hands that one!! :o

def had botox and plastic surgery ...

Money well spent  :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2010, 04:07:33 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on November 12, 2010, 01:55:05 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on November 12, 2010, 01:29:32 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2010, 01:03:31 AM
Well just back from the pub and near the end myself and my Unionist friend had a bit of a fall out over her poppy. I said nothing all night until one of my English mates pointed out it attached to her bag and that O ***** won't have liked that. She asked me what my problem was with supporting "our boys" and "their sacrifice" it got pretty heated and only ended well coz I agreed to disagree coz she has a savage arse and even while arguing I couldn't take my eyes of it and I really think I have a chance bar the fact that she thinks I'm a raving Provo, which most lads here will think absurd  ;D
Well played, get  priorities straight....savage arse or high ground....arse everyday :D

Hang on,, how were ya looking at her arse while ya were arguing?! Was she looking over shoulder or something?

No we had high chairs at the bar, she kept standing up when she got excited kinda falling forward and presenting the finest arse in a pair of tight blue jeans, nice. All day seeing poppys and where once before they kinda got on my nerves they now make me think of a fine arse in blue jeans, yummy  ;D  Tnx You Miss ******
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Puckoon on November 12, 2010, 04:25:45 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 12, 2010, 10:16:52 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 12, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
So I gave $5 for a poppy today. I didn't take one - am I still ok to post here/still an Irish man???

If you give a fiver and get nothing in return then you are the ultimate Irish man. Usually we'd get a stick of gum at least for a fiver.

;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 12, 2010, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 12, 2010, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 11, 2010, 10:33:49 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:05:57 PM
QuoteQuote from: Banana Man on Today at 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.

But an African leader would have no relevance to a discussion on the poppy. The poppy represents the fallen crown forces. The link is quite clear. I just questioned why someone would think that it's great that someone isn't wearing a poppy when they meet a member of the royal family. That's not a tangent; it's developing the discussion.

You just proved my point Maguire against yourself, thanks for that. An African leader in the photo has no relevance to the discussion of poppies just like the mistress of Charles Windsor has no relevance to it so why would i mention it. I reiteriate that if you want to discuss Irish personalities meeting with the royals then start a separate topic and I will gladly contribute to the debate (provided you can stay on topic of course).
You're not grasping this at all.
You think it's bad to wear the poppy, commemorating deceased members of the crown forces... yet it's grand to hang out with the wife of the heir to that same crown and the  Commander-in-Chief of those same forces. That's the link. Simple. If it was the head of an African state, there wouldn't have been a link.


I haven't once commented on whether or not it is grand to hang out with anyone, I am trying to discuss the wearing of poppies. And it is increasingly difficult to maintain the focus when you keep trying to divert of on a tangent to give you some pathetic chink of light to grasp at to maintain your part in the discussion.

I repeat, if you want to discuss meeting members of a foreign monarchy feel free to start a new topic and put your points on that and I will engage you on that debate bt if you can't maintain focus on one emblem I dismay at the prospect of you trying to deal with an entire family including teir mistresses
Quote button fail! But at least you're giving it a go.  Keep trying - I've mastered it even with my lack of intelligence and limited education. :P

I'm sorry you're finding it difficult to "maintain the focus". As you'll see over the last few pages, discussions develop. It's part of debate.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 12, 2010, 09:26:53 PM
the biggest gripe i have with the poppy wearing is the length of time it goes on. It started on 22nd Oct this year, and will finish on 14th Nov, 3 1/2 weeks, why ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Real Laoislad on November 12, 2010, 10:54:14 PM
Colin Farrell  the great Dub is wearing one on Graham Norton show tonight
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armagho9 on November 12, 2010, 10:59:54 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on November 12, 2010, 10:54:14 PM
Colin Farrell  the great Dub is wearing one on Graham Norton show tonight

Complete Bell End anyway
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2010, 11:24:05 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on November 12, 2010, 10:54:14 PM
Colin Farrell  the great Dub is wearing one on Graham Norton show tonight
Harry Potter singing the elements of the Periodic Table should go on the WTF thread! G33k!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2010, 09:02:40 PM
Mark Sidebottom not wearing one tonight either on BBC Sport Final Score. surprised. Have BBC relaxed their rules or is he rebelling
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2010, 09:09:17 PM
Didnt see any on the UTV people this evening on their local News either.
Commonsense breaking out ?
Mind you them Allister neanderthals at their annual "conference" were daubed with them from head to toe. ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seanmacdiarmada on November 13, 2010, 09:17:54 PM
I dont watch the programme but the wife has told me that Malachi Cush was not wearing one on UTV but his partner was...good man Malachi.. ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 13, 2010, 09:26:16 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2010, 09:02:40 PM
Mark Sidebottom not wearing one tonight either on BBC Sport Final Score. surprised. Have BBC relaxed their rules or is he rebelling

Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2010, 09:09:17 PM
Didnt see any on the UTV people this evening on their local News either.
Commonsense breaking out ?

Maybe it's just because it's after the 11th?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2010, 09:45:48 PM
(http://deiseach.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/carolvordermanchop.jpg)

Fixed that for everyone
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2010, 09:47:54 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 13, 2010, 09:26:16 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2010, 09:02:40 PM
Mark Sidebottom not wearing one tonight either on BBC Sport Final Score. surprised. Have BBC relaxed their rules or is he rebelling

Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2010, 09:09:17 PM
Didnt see any on the UTV people this evening on their local News either.
Commonsense breaking out ?

Maybe it's just because it's after the 11th?

no, he wasn't wearing one 2 weeks ago either. Not sure about last week as i didnt see it. I thought that myself Maguire that the 11th was the cut-off date but apparently it's Rememberence Sunday tomorrow so come Monday it will be Poppy free.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2010, 09:54:10 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 12, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
So I gave $5 for a poppy today. I didn't take one - am I still ok to post here/still an Irish man???

I attend a Remembrance Sunday service every year (although not tomorrow; I have a christening to attend where I'm expected to do something). The Irish version is diminished by the absence of Jerusalem, which is ace. I will cut up my passport.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2010, 10:25:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 12, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
So I gave $5 for a poppy today. I didn't take one - am I still ok to post here/still an Irish man???
I dont think Canadian forces killed too many in Ireland so I'd say you're alright.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2010, 10:29:20 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 08, 2010, 11:28:44 PM
Lads, I was feeling hungry last night and was too tired to cook something. I ordered in a chippy. The guy that delivered it, was wearing a Poppy. Just want to double check here first. Should I be aggrieved by this, or is it ok to let this one slide?
I know you like to sit on the fence but has it got that bad that you can't make up your own mind on something like this?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 13, 2010, 10:51:37 PM
Did some bucko state MUFC were the only EPL team that wouldn't be tooling up this weekend? Lies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2010, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2010, 10:29:20 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 08, 2010, 11:28:44 PM
Lads, I was feeling hungry last night and was too tired to cook something. I ordered in a chippy. The guy that delivered it, was wearing a Poppy. Just want to double check here first. Should I be aggrieved by this, or is it ok to let this one slide?
I know you like to sit on the fence but has it got that bad that you can't make up your own mind on something like this?
He is actually mocking people that get upset at the merest sight of a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2010, 10:54:08 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 13, 2010, 10:51:37 PM
Did some bucko state MUFC were the only EPL team that wouldn't be tooling up this weekend? Lies.

with their white shirts it was the most obvious one today. Along with the Great Wall of China it's the only other thing which could be seen from the moon !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 13, 2010, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2010, 09:54:10 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 12, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
So I gave $5 for a poppy today. I didn't take one - am I still ok to post here/still an Irish man???

I attend a Remembrance Sunday service every year (although not tomorrow; I have a christening to attend where I'm expected to do something). The Irish version is diminished by the absence of Jerusalem, which is ace. I will cut up my passport.

Sell it man, sell it, ya might as well make some money out of it. Is there no recession down in Norman Waterford or what?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2010, 11:06:54 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2010, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2010, 10:29:20 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 08, 2010, 11:28:44 PM
Lads, I was feeling hungry last night and was too tired to cook something. I ordered in a chippy. The guy that delivered it, was wearing a Poppy. Just want to double check here first. Should I be aggrieved by this, or is it ok to let this one slide?
I know you like to sit on the fence but has it got that bad that you can't make up your own mind on something like this?
He is actually mocking people that get upset at the merest sight of a poppy.
I didn't know that because although I've only skimmed the thread I don't see anyone saying they get "upset" at the sight of a poppy. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: spanner on November 13, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on November 04, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.
Money talks, all those Irish working in england wear them, its more a symbol of the irish licking the holes of brits, pandering for votes or money. I see it as selling your soul. Do they realise there supporting the comfortable retirement of all those brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North.
Is it complusary on brit tv to wear one?


My bold above.

Not forgetting that it wasn't only Brits and Loyalist Death Squads who killed innocent people up north?

As for wearing a Poppy.  I imagine that most people who do choose to wear it, would probably  do so in remembrance of those men and women ( Yes - including many Irish volunteers who didn't want to be ruled by a Fascist regime) who died in two World Wars so that most of Western Europe including Ireland, wouldn't be speaking German today.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Never beat the deeler on November 14, 2010, 12:04:34 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2010, 10:25:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 12, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
So I gave $5 for a poppy today. I didn't take one - am I still ok to post here/still an Irish man???
I dont think Canadian forces killed too many in Ireland so I'd say you're alright.

So is it OK to support Canadian forces if you're in the UK?
Is it an issue because money raised from these sales goes to the British army?
Is it then OK to wear a poppy provided you didnt pay for it?
Assuming (dangerously so) yes to these questions, surely there wouldnt be a problem with people on the tv wearing poppies, that surely they dont pay for???
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 14, 2010, 12:12:48 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on November 14, 2010, 12:04:34 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2010, 10:25:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 12, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
So I gave $5 for a poppy today. I didn't take one - am I still ok to post here/still an Irish man???
I dont think Canadian forces killed too many in Ireland so I'd say you're alright.

So is it OK to support Canadian forces if you're in the UK?
Is it an issue because money raised from these sales goes to the British army?
Is it then OK to wear a poppy provided you didnt pay for it?
Assuming (dangerously so) yes to these questions, surely there wouldnt be a problem with people on the tv wearing poppies, that surely they dont pay for???
Are you asking me?

1. I don't care (gabs in Canada btw)
2. An issue for who? Personally I wouldn't contribute to the British Army.
3. I wouldn't wear a poppy no matter who paid for it.
4. I don't have a problem with anyone wearing a poppy as long as their reasons are sincere. I have a problem with poppy fascism and people who want to mark their territory. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 14, 2010, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: spanner on November 13, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on November 04, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.
Money talks, all those Irish working in england wear them, its more a symbol of the irish licking the holes of brits, pandering for votes or money. I see it as selling your soul. Do they realise there supporting the comfortable retirement of all those brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North.
Is it complusary on brit tv to wear one?


My bold above.

Not forgetting that it wasn't only Brits and Loyalist Death Squads who killed innocent people up north?

As for wearing a Poppy.  I imagine that most people who do choose to wear it, would probably  do so in remembrance of those men and women ( Yes - including many Irish volunteers who didn't want to be ruled by a Fascist regime) who died in two World Wars so that most of Western Europe including Ireland, wouldn't be speaking German today.

The discussion is about poppies. Hence the relevance of brits murdering in Ireland.

If you are trying to stir sh1t, at least do so in terms relevant to the discussion ffs.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 14, 2010, 12:35:42 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 14, 2010, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: spanner on November 13, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on November 04, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.
Money talks, all those Irish working in england wear them, its more a symbol of the irish licking the holes of brits, pandering for votes or money. I see it as selling your soul. Do they realise there supporting the comfortable retirement of all those brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North.
Is it complusary on brit tv to wear one?


My bold above.

Not forgetting that it wasn't only Brits and Loyalist Death Squads who killed innocent people up north?

As for wearing a Poppy.  I imagine that most people who do choose to wear it, would probably  do so in remembrance of those men and women ( Yes - including many Irish volunteers who didn't want to be ruled by a Fascist regime) who died in two World Wars so that most of Western Europe including Ireland, wouldn't be speaking German today.

The discussion is about poppies. Hence the relevance of brits murdering in Ireland.

If you are trying to stir sh1t, at least do so in terms relevant to the discussion ffs.
He's trying desperately all evening to get someone to bite and you're going to give it to him...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 14, 2010, 05:36:36 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 14, 2010, 12:35:42 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 14, 2010, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: spanner on November 13, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on November 04, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.
Money talks, all those Irish working in england wear them, its more a symbol of the irish licking the holes of brits, pandering for votes or money. I see it as selling your soul. Do they realise there supporting the comfortable retirement of all those brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North.
Is it complusary on brit tv to wear one?


My bold above.

Not forgetting that it wasn't only Brits and Loyalist Death Squads who killed innocent people up north?

As for wearing a Poppy.  I imagine that most people who do choose to wear it, would probably  do so in remembrance of those men and women ( Yes - including many Irish volunteers who didn't want to be ruled by a Fascist regime) who died in two World Wars so that most of Western Europe including Ireland, wouldn't be speaking German today.

The discussion is about poppies. Hence the relevance of brits murdering in Ireland.

If you are trying to stir sh1t, at least do so in terms relevant to the discussion ffs.
He's trying desperately all evening to get someone to bite and you're going to give it to him...

I'd rather wear 1,000 PSNI GAA jersies than a single Poppy tbh.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: magpie seanie on November 14, 2010, 06:09:59 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2010, 10:54:08 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 13, 2010, 10:51:37 PM
Did some bucko state MUFC were the only EPL team that wouldn't be tooling up this weekend? Lies.

with their white shirts it was the most obvious one today. Along with the Great Wall of China it's the only other thing which could be seen from the moon !

I don't think United wore them last year against Chelsea so I was a bit disgusted to see it this year. Just saw Tevez wearing one. Bet that will play well in Argentina!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thebigfella on November 14, 2010, 09:52:20 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 14, 2010, 06:09:59 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2010, 10:54:08 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 13, 2010, 10:51:37 PM
Did some bucko state MUFC were the only EPL team that wouldn't be tooling up this weekend? Lies.

with their white shirts it was the most obvious one today. Along with the Great Wall of China it's the only other thing which could be seen from the moon !

I don't think United wore them last year against Chelsea so I was a bit disgusted to see it this year. Just saw Tevez wearing one. Bet that will play well in Argentina!

FFS I can understand to a certain point some of the Celtic scum fans getting wound up but getting wound up cause an English club has it on their jersey, catch a grip.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lurganblue on November 14, 2010, 09:58:49 AM
Seanie, I was watching a show about maradona last week in which he outlined the hatred the players felt towards England before the 86 game because of the recent war. I was just thinking would tevez wear one this weekend. Can't believe he did
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seanmacdiarmada on November 14, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
Lads, I work in the BBC, on the 11th there was a 2 minute silence in the office, I simply logged myself out of the computer and went to the toilet for 2 minutes, there was about 4 people in my office out of 20 or so wearing a poppy...on Easter I wear my Lilly for the whole week of Easter, I had only one complaint about that last year, i refused to remove it due to the poppy issue and no more was said, I have no problem with the ordinary working class unionist or Stoops (as they know no better) people wearing a poppy, I do get annoyed tho when I see the likes of Colin Farrell, Frank Mitchell (big Down GAA man, yeah rite) and the other so-called Irish celebrities who wear the poppy just because they are told to.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: reddgnhand on November 14, 2010, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: spanner on November 13, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on November 04, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.
Money talks, all those Irish working in england wear them, its more a symbol of the irish licking the holes of brits, pandering for votes or money. I see it as selling your soul. Do they realise there supporting the comfortable retirement of all those brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North.
Is it complusary on brit tv to wear one?


My bold above.

Not forgetting that it wasn't only Brits and Loyalist Death Squads who killed innocent people up north?

As for wearing a Poppy.  I imagine that most people who do choose to wear it, would probably  do so in remembrance of those men and women ( Yes - including many Irish volunteers who didn't want to be ruled by a Fascist regime) who died in two World Wars so that most of Western Europe including Ireland, wouldn't be speaking German today.

And what kind of regime was the brits running here?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 14, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
The Daily Mail has orchestrated a campaign to get all football clubs wearing the poppy.
It has been rounding on clubs that don't and declaring victory for each one that relents.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1225325/Poppy-power-Now-Premier-clubs-refusing-Sportsmails-campaign-honour-heroes.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1324698/A-simple-message-Manchester-United-Why-wont-wear-poppy-pride.html

United and Liverpool were the final ones to give in this year.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1325026/A-set-Manchester-United-join-proud-poppy-club.html

Far from symbol of respectful remembrance, this sort of jingoistic drum banging is turning the poppy into the new Union Jack.

However we shouldn't underestimate that while English people are generally clued in and usually healthily cynical, when it comes to subjects like history and their armed forces, dissent from the party line is not so common.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 14, 2010, 12:04:16 PM
Quote from: seanmacdiarmada on November 14, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
Lads, I work in the BBC, on the 11th there was a 2 minute silence in the office, I simply logged myself out of the computer and went to the toilet for 2 minutes, there was about 4 people in my office out of 20 or so wearing a poppy...on Easter I wear my Lilly for the whole week of Easter, I had only one complaint about that last year, i refused to remove it due to the poppy issue and no more was said, I have no problem with the ordinary working class unionist or Stoops (as they know no better) people wearing a poppy, I do get annoyed tho when I see the likes of Colin Farrell, Frank Mitchell (big Down GAA man, yeah rite) and the other so-called Irish celebrities who wear the poppy just because they are told to.
You of course have evidence that these people are told to wear poppies? Colin Farrell isn't an employee of the BBC so I doubt if they would have cancelled his appearance on The Graham Norton show if he said he wasn't wearing a poppy. Try again.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: spanner on November 14, 2010, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 14, 2010, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: spanner on November 13, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on November 04, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.
Money talks, all those Irish working in england wear them, its more a symbol of the irish licking the holes of brits, pandering for votes or money. I see it as selling your soul. Do they realise there supporting the comfortable retirement of all those brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North.
Is it complusary on brit tv to wear one?


My bold above.

Not forgetting that it wasn't only Brits and Loyalist Death Squads who killed innocent people up north?

As for wearing a Poppy.  I imagine that most people who do choose to wear it, would probably  do so in remembrance of those men and women ( Yes - including many Irish volunteers who didn't want to be ruled by a Fascist regime) who died in two World Wars so that most of Western Europe including Ireland, wouldn't be speaking German today.

The discussion is about poppies. Hence the relevance of brits murdering in Ireland.

If you are trying to stir sh1t, at least do so in terms relevant to the discussion ffs.

If you check above, you will see that it was Sligonian, who first mentioned "brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North".  Why didn't you have a pop at him?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 14, 2010, 12:18:59 PM
Someone forgot to pin a poppy to Eddie Jordan today. Heads will roll.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: spanner on November 14, 2010, 12:29:57 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 14, 2010, 12:18:59 PM
Someone forgot to pin a poppy to Eddie Jordan today. Heads will roll.

Especially if it was being televised on the BBC.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 14, 2010, 12:36:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 14, 2010, 12:04:16 PM
Quote from: seanmacdiarmada on November 14, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
Lads, I work in the BBC, on the 11th there was a 2 minute silence in the office, I simply logged myself out of the computer and went to the toilet for 2 minutes, there was about 4 people in my office out of 20 or so wearing a poppy...on Easter I wear my Lilly for the whole week of Easter, I had only one complaint about that last year, i refused to remove it due to the poppy issue and no more was said, I have no problem with the ordinary working class unionist or Stoops (as they know no better) people wearing a poppy, I do get annoyed tho when I see the likes of Colin Farrell, Frank Mitchell (big Down GAA man, yeah rite) and the other so-called Irish celebrities who wear the poppy just because they are told to.
You of course have evidence that these people are told to wear poppies? Colin Farrell isn't an employee of the BBC so I doubt if they would have cancelled his appearance on The Graham Norton show if he said he wasn't wearing a poppy. Try again.
You think it's a coincidence they're all wearing one?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ONeill on November 14, 2010, 01:02:04 PM
Quote from: seanmacdiarmada on November 14, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
Lads, I work in the BBC, on the 11th there was a 2 minute silence in the office, I simply logged myself out of the computer and went to the toilet for 2 minutes, there was about 4 people in my office out of 20 or so wearing a poppy...on Easter I wear my Lilly for the whole week of Easter, I had only one complaint about that last year, i refused to remove it due to the poppy issue and no more was said, I have no problem with the ordinary working class unionist or Stoops (as they know no better) people wearing a poppy, I do get annoyed tho when I see the likes of Colin Farrell, Frank Mitchell (big Down GAA man, yeah rite) and the other so-called Irish celebrities who wear the poppy just because they are told to.

I'm nearly sure Frank Mitchill's grandfather fought in WW2.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 14, 2010, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: spanner on November 13, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
died in two World Wars so that most of Western Europe including Ireland, wouldn't be speaking German today.

So it's alright to have fcukin English Béarla bet into us over 400 years but God forbid we might have to speak its first cousin Deutsch.
Anyway we might as well take up the Deutsch as they'll be paying our wages ,pensions etc for the next 20 years.  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2010, 02:46:21 PM
Sidebottom wearing Poppy at Casement!!

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ONeill on November 14, 2010, 02:48:25 PM
Sorry, it's actually Sidebottom, not Frank Mitchell, whose grandfather was a war veteran.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 14, 2010, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 14, 2010, 02:48:25 PM
Sorry, it's actually Sidebottom, not Frank Mitchell, whose grandfather was a war veteran.

Correct, his oul feller is English.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 14, 2010, 02:53:31 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 14, 2010, 12:36:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 14, 2010, 12:04:16 PM
Quote from: seanmacdiarmada on November 14, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
Lads, I work in the BBC, on the 11th there was a 2 minute silence in the office, I simply logged myself out of the computer and went to the toilet for 2 minutes, there was about 4 people in my office out of 20 or so wearing a poppy...on Easter I wear my Lilly for the whole week of Easter, I had only one complaint about that last year, i refused to remove it due to the poppy issue and no more was said, I have no problem with the ordinary working class unionist or Stoops (as they know no better) people wearing a poppy, I do get annoyed tho when I see the likes of Colin Farrell, Frank Mitchell (big Down GAA man, yeah rite) and the other so-called Irish celebrities who wear the poppy just because they are told to.
You of course have evidence that these people are told to wear poppies? Colin Farrell isn't an employee of the BBC so I doubt if they would have cancelled his appearance on The Graham Norton show if he said he wasn't wearing a poppy. Try again.
You think it's a coincidence they're all wearing one?
There is a huge difference between being asked to wear one and being told/forced to wear one. I have no doubt they were asked to wear one. I can't imagine they would have been sanctioned if they refused the offer.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 14, 2010, 03:44:51 PM
Asked or "asked".

I've no problem anyone wearing Poppies, Unionist or Nationalist. I just don't think they should feel pressured into wearing one.

Just look at the shite Alan Sugar got into on Twitter during the week, maddness.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Sandino on November 14, 2010, 04:56:05 PM
If yoiu looked at Eddie Jordan today you could see that he was indeed wearing a small metal poppy pin. This was visible on the one occasion that his arm dropped to reveal the pin. Me thinks Eddie was not wearing it by choice.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 14, 2010, 05:00:18 PM
Quote from: Sandino on November 14, 2010, 04:56:05 PM
If yoiu looked at Eddie Jordan today you could see that he was indeed wearing a small metal poppy pin. This was visible on the one occasion that his arm dropped to revel the pin. Me thinks Eddie was not wearing it by choice.

He seemed to be doing his damnest to keep it covered.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 14, 2010, 07:42:24 PM
celtic had them on their jerseys today, but sunderland hadn't
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 14, 2010, 08:54:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2010, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 12, 2010, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 11, 2010, 10:33:49 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 11, 2010, 09:05:57 PM
QuoteQuote from: Banana Man on Today at 09:03:19 AM
I don't have a problem with other people going off on a tangent as long as they don't then try to use that tangent to form an argument with myself. Unlike you, you have engaged me by using a tangent. I mentioned Ms Parker Bowles as Patrick Kielty was meeting her, if he had been meeting an African leader for example I wouldn't then have mentioned the ills of African society and done a running commentary on the rights or wrongs based on the Continent's history of genocidal warfare.

But an African leader would have no relevance to a discussion on the poppy. The poppy represents the fallen crown forces. The link is quite clear. I just questioned why someone would think that it's great that someone isn't wearing a poppy when they meet a member of the royal family. That's not a tangent; it's developing the discussion.

You just proved my point Maguire against yourself, thanks for that. An African leader in the photo has no relevance to the discussion of poppies just like the mistress of Charles Windsor has no relevance to it so why would i mention it. I reiteriate that if you want to discuss Irish personalities meeting with the royals then start a separate topic and I will gladly contribute to the debate (provided you can stay on topic of course).
You're not grasping this at all.
You think it's bad to wear the poppy, commemorating deceased members of the crown forces... yet it's grand to hang out with the wife of the heir to that same crown and the  Commander-in-Chief of those same forces. That's the link. Simple. If it was the head of an African state, there wouldn't have been a link.


I haven't once commented on whether or not it is grand to hang out with anyone, I am trying to discuss the wearing of poppies. And it is increasingly difficult to maintain the focus when you keep trying to divert of on a tangent to give you some pathetic chink of light to grasp at to maintain your part in the discussion.

I repeat, if you want to discuss meeting members of a foreign monarchy feel free to start a new topic and put your points on that and I will engage you on that debate bt if you can't maintain focus on one emblem I dismay at the prospect of you trying to deal with an entire family including teir mistresses
Quote button fail! But at least you're giving it a go.  Keep trying - I've mastered it even with my lack of intelligence and limited education. :P

I'm sorry you're finding it difficult to "maintain the focus". As you'll see over the last few pages, discussions develop. It's part of debate.

Tell you what lad , you might have been able to quote other people but there isn't much point in people quoting you when you talk nothing but shite ffs

if you stuck to the topic and offered debate i might put in a bigger effort

on another note westlife didn't have any poppies on on the x factor. Bit late in the day seeing as the boys helped launch the poppy appeal a few years back  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: twotwocharlie on November 14, 2010, 09:02:21 PM
Margaret Richie was out today wearing her poppy.

ROLL ON EASTER
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 14, 2010, 09:08:54 PM
Quote from: twotwocharlie on November 14, 2010, 09:02:21 PM
Margaret Richie was out today wearing her poppy.

ROLL ON EASTER

shes clambering for the last scraping of votes out of the alliance and moderate unionist voters in south down ffs, pity there wasn't a more credible shinner than Ruane. She'd sell her soul for power. As Braveheart said ''fighting for the scraps of longshanks' table'' - sums her up to a tee for me.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 14, 2010, 09:20:04 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 14, 2010, 09:08:54 PM
Quote from: twotwocharlie on November 14, 2010, 09:02:21 PM
Margaret Richie was out today wearing her poppy.

ROLL ON EASTER

shes clambering for the last scraping of votes out of the alliance and moderate unionist voters in south down ffs, pity there wasn't a more credible shinner than Ruane. She'd sell her soul for power. As Braveheart said ''fighting for the scraps of longshanks' table'' - sums her up to a tee for me.
I don't see how this is any different to Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall. Surely it's just paying respect to the Irish men and women who died in the wars.
And with a majority of 8,000, she hardly needs to scrape a few votes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seanmacdiarmada on November 14, 2010, 09:42:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 14, 2010, 02:53:31 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 14, 2010, 12:36:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 14, 2010, 12:04:16 PM
Quote from: seanmacdiarmada on November 14, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
Lads, I work in the BBC, on the 11th there was a 2 minute silence in the office, I simply logged myself out of the computer and went to the toilet for 2 minutes, there was about 4 people in my office out of 20 or so wearing a poppy...on Easter I wear my Lilly for the whole week of Easter, I had only one complaint about that last year, i refused to remove it due to the poppy issue and no more was said, I have no problem with the ordinary working class unionist or Stoops (as they know no better) people wearing a poppy, I do get annoyed tho when I see the likes of Colin Farrell, Frank Mitchell (big Down GAA man, yeah rite) and the other so-called Irish celebrities who wear the poppy just because they are told to.
You of course have evidence that these people are told to wear poppies? Colin Farrell isn't an employee of the BBC so I doubt if they would have cancelled his appearance on The Graham Norton show if he said he wasn't wearing a poppy. Try again.
You think it's a coincidence they're all wearing one?
There is a huge difference between being asked to wear one and being told/forced to wear one. I have no doubt they were asked to wear one. I can't imagine they would have been sanctioned if they refused the offer.

Sorry Tony when I said told to wear one I should have said asked, same thing really...they could have said no regardless...thats what annoys me about it
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orangemac on November 14, 2010, 11:51:15 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned earlier but bit of a row kicking off in Fermanagh.

Imagine how hard it would be to listen to GAA if they lived somewhere else ;)

http://www.impartialreporter.com/news/roundup/articles/2010/11/12/392550-poppies-divide-workforce-at-quinn-insurance/
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:15:51 AM
Quote from: spanner on November 14, 2010, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 14, 2010, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: spanner on November 13, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on November 04, 2010, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 04, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Good to see free choice is alive and well. If they want to wear them, so what and yes i know symbolisim etc. Plenty of Irish men in the ranks of the British Army over the years.
Money talks, all those Irish working in england wear them, its more a symbol of the irish licking the holes of brits, pandering for votes or money. I see it as selling your soul. Do they realise there supporting the comfortable retirement of all those brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North.
Is it complusary on brit tv to wear one?


My bold above.

Not forgetting that it wasn't only Brits and Loyalist Death Squads who killed innocent people up north?

As for wearing a Poppy.  I imagine that most people who do choose to wear it, would probably  do so in remembrance of those men and women ( Yes - including many Irish volunteers who didn't want to be ruled by a Fascist regime) who died in two World Wars so that most of Western Europe including Ireland, wouldn't be speaking German today.

The discussion is about poppies. Hence the relevance of brits murdering in Ireland.

If you are trying to stir sh1t, at least do so in terms relevant to the discussion ffs.

If you check above, you will see that it was Sligonian, who first mentioned "brit soldiers who killed innocent people up North".  Why didn't you have a pop at him?

Because his point was about the activities of the brit the troops who stand to benefit from poppy sales. The thread is about poppies.

Your post is an attempt to deflect attention from the brits on what is a thread about poppies. You are attempting to stir shite and are piss poor a it. Hence the number of times you have been told as much in your short board membership.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

For a start Alex Maskey is better looking  :D

Maskey led a wreath and not at the same time as the pomp and triumphalist ceremonial activities that Ritchie partook in. His was a wreath not a poppy, it was to acknowledge that yes, men did die, Irishmen among them and they deserve to be remembered. About that I think we can all agree. The point is she is wearing a poppy that represents just British servicemen and all wars that they fought in. There is a clear difference and yes it is pandering to maintain her votes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thebigfella on November 15, 2010, 09:10:47 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

For a start Alex Maskey is better looking  :D

Maskey led a wreath and not at the same time as the pomp and triumphalist ceremonial activities that Ritchie partook in. His was a wreath not a poppy, it was to acknowledge that yes, men did die, Irishmen among them and they deserve to be remembered. About that I think we can all agree. The point is she is wearing a poppy that represents just British servicemen and all wars that they fought in. There is a clear difference and yes it is pandering to maintain her votes.

FFS do you ever read the shite you write?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 15, 2010, 09:12:14 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

The difference is that Maskey's wreath-laying was part of his official duties as Lord Mayor. It was part of the job description. Margaret Ritchie chose to wear hers. Although given the overwhelming pressure on people to conform as exemplfied by the whole Donna Traynor incident, I'm not sure she was entirely free to choose. And that is the crucial point
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:19:02 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 15, 2010, 09:10:47 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

For a start Alex Maskey is better looking  :D

Maskey led a wreath and not at the same time as the pomp and triumphalist ceremonial activities that Ritchie partook in. His was a wreath not a poppy, it was to acknowledge that yes, men did die, Irishmen among them and they deserve to be remembered. About that I think we can all agree. The point is she is wearing a poppy that represents just British servicemen and all wars that they fought in. There is a clear difference and yes it is pandering to maintain her votes.

FFS do you ever read the shite you write?

That was a great contribution there lad, so you got anything to add there to start a discussion or can you not crawl above profanities?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: funtime frankie on November 15, 2010, 09:57:35 AM
Maguire, I'll try and answer that question. First of all I'm not speaking for Maskey and I sure as jaysus am not speaking on behalf of any stoop.

Many posters on this site have quite correctly referred to the fact that many Irish men have died in conflicts whilst serving the British crown.Because these men have died in conflict doesn't necessarily warrant them worthy of remembrance. In my opinion the only Irish men who died whilst fighting in the ranks of the British army and who are worthy of remembrance are those who died in WWI, thereafter, any Irish who died in the service of Britain, to me, are nothing. They have made their choice to serve Britain and in so doing have become part of the same machine which was responsible for the naked terrorism on our streets. 

My reasoning for highlighting the dead of WWI is to do with the fact that many of those men were advised by Redmond and Co that in fighting in the trenches that they were serving the cause of Ireland. Is it fitting to recall the memory of these men by wearing a poppy? I don't believe that it is.

To quote from the ballad, "The Foggy Dew,"

"Had they died by Pearse's side
Or had fought with Cathal Brugha
Their names we'll keep where the Fenians sleep
'Neath the shroud of the Foggy Dew."

The poppy is promoted by the Royal British Legion. This symbol embraces all the British war dead and it is worth recalling that this war dead includes those who murdered innocents in Croke Park, Derry and Ballymurphy. In contributing to the Poppy appeal one is assisting this organisation in its work. Personally, I have no desire to help pay for a guide dog for a Para who lost his sight in Crossmaglen or assist in paying for a wheelchair for an SAS man who lost a leg on the Falls Road. I have seen and experienced at first hand the terror that these people have inflicted and they most certainly do not have my admiration. What I don't understand is why so many Irish people feel this need to fall over themselves to contribute to this nonsense.

I believe by not wearing a poppy but yet laying a wreath at the cenotaph that Maskey was highlighting this important difference.

Ritchie's act on the other hand smacks of nothing else other than grandstanding. I laughed when I read last week that she issued a statement that it was OK for nationalists (deliberate small n) to wear a poppy. Who made Ritchie the spokesperson for nationalists?

By issuing such a statement it goes to show how out of step this woman is and let's remember by wearing a poppy she was honouring those same British soldiers who held this nation in the grip of fear and terror. Let's also remember it was only in the recent past that they withdrew from our streets and that they are still housed in barracks in Ireland.

I believe that we should recall the memory of the dead of WWI. However, the poppy is not an acceptable emblem and our act of remembrance should be disassociated from the British act. I honestly believe that it is a slur and an insult on the memory of those who have died in the service of this country to include those from here who have died in the service of Britain post WWI in the same act.





 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 15, 2010, 10:25:39 AM
Quote from: twotwocharlie on November 14, 2010, 09:02:21 PM
Margaret Richie was out today wearing her poppy.

ROLL ON EASTER
She was at Casement was she wearing it there?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 10:25:59 AM
Maguire01,

Alex Maskey was acting in his capacity as Mayor when he laid his wreath. His wreath was also not a poppy one. He laid a laurel wreath with an inscription of:
"In memory of all the men who made the supreme sacrifice at the Battle of the Somme and during the First World War and in recognition of the sorrow, suffering and sense of loss of their relatives, friends and comrades".

Ritchie, acting in her capacity as stoop leader, wore an emblem which commemorates, and is used as a fund raiser for ALL british veterans. This was a WW commemoration yes, but why not follow Alex Maskey's lead and lay a wreath or simply be in attendance, if remembrance of WW1 was her honest objective, rather than wear a symbol representative of every british army veteran of every british army campaign of occupation, terrorism and imperialism?

From what I can see, it is yet one more sad instance of the stoops stooping lower as they slowly but surely morph into a UUP/Alliance Party blend.

I wonder how the families of Ireland's many british army victims felt yesterday watching a "nationalist" (I use the term lightly) "leader" (again, I use the term lightly) adorn herself with a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:47:05 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 10:25:59 AM
Maguire01,

Alex Maskey was acting in his capacity as Mayor when he laid his wreath. His wreath was also not a poppy one. He laid a laurel wreath with an inscription of:
"In memory of all the men who made the supreme sacrifice at the Battle of the Somme and during the First World War and in recognition of the sorrow, suffering and sense of loss of their relatives, friends and comrades".
Ritchie, acting in her capacity as stoop leader, wore an emblem which commemorates, and is used as a fund raiser for ALL british veterans. This was a WW commemoration yes, but why not follow Alex Maskey's lead and lay a wreath or simply be in attendance, if remembrance of WW1 was her honest objective, rather than wear a symbol representative of every british army veteran of every british army campaign of occupation, terrorism and imperialism?

From what I can see, it is yet one more sad instance of the stoops stooping lower as they slowly but surely morph into a UUP/Alliance Party blend.

I wonder how the families of Ireland's many british army victims felt yesterday watching a "nationalist" (I use the term lightly) "leader" (again, I use the term lightly) adorn herself with a poppy.

that was exactly my point, some lads here need to open their eyes
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 15, 2010, 10:52:19 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:47:05 AM
that was exactly my point, some lads here need to open their eyes

:)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 15, 2010, 12:33:43 PM
maybe there should be some kind of 'joining together' in the 'sprit' of embracing all sides of the communities....we should honour all of our fallen dead - from ancient celtic warriors and before, to ww1 and ww2, modern day rebels from early part of the 20th century and our more recent IRA/UVF etc etc
that way all sides have their heroes/soldiers remembered and the poppy symbol will no longer be divisive...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2010, 05:39:51 PM
It is only right to remember the cannon fodder of the 2 world wars but the poppy is about more than that.

The British war machine is now murdering civilians in Afghanistan and that's as much part of remembrance day as the somme in 1916. I never liked the poppy. Too much hypocrisy.  This was in today's Sun.


"PRINCE William paid heartfelt tribute to Britain's fallen heroes yesterday - as he spent Remembrance Sunday in Afghanistan. His visit to Camp Bastion in Helmand Province had been kept a close secret for his safety. So 2,500 British and Commonwealth troops were surprised and delighted when the Prince joined them for their parade ground service.  He solemnly saluted after laying a poppy wreath at the camp's memorial to lost comrades.   And, as the Queen led the traditional remembrance ceremony at the Cenotaph in Whitehall, 28-year-old William paid tribute to the nation's backing for its heroes.
He said in an interview: "The country is as fervent today in its support for our Armed Forces and the sacrifices that they make as it has ever been.   "The awareness of what young men and women are doing for us in the most extreme and hostile environments imaginable is striking and moving.  "I find this remarkable and, frankly, humbling."
William, an RAF Search and Rescue chopper pilot, honoured two of his friends yesterday.   A poignant message on his wreath said: "For Jo, Lex and all those who have made the ultimate sacrifice for our country."  Joanna Dyer, 24, was a fellow officer cadet at Sandhurst. She joined the Intelligence Corps but was killed in 2007 in Iraq.   Major Lex Roberts, 32, of the Royal Gurkha Rifles, was William's mentor at Sandhurst. He also died in 2007, victim of a roadside bomb in Afghanistan. The Prince attended his funeral.
Defence Secretary Liam Fox, who was with William at Camp Bastion, said: "When you are talking about the sacrifices, this is where they are made.   "This is where it's at its most raw, its most painful and its most proud."   The troops - told of William's visit only 15 minutes before he arrived - included old pals. One, a Lynx helicopter pilot, said: "I know him from flying training when he came through with the Army Air Corps at Middle Wallop. He remembered us - it's a small world."
William's trip took him one step closer to fulfilling his ambition of serving on the frontline - as his soldier brother Harry already has. "

Pointless deaths in Afghanistan and nothing to be proud of. When they pull out of Afghanistan they won't have achieved anything. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lurganblue on November 15, 2010, 05:46:12 PM
Saw a guy wearing one as he past me in gordons chemist earlier. Now that
Rememberance Sunday is over, when are they put away?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2010, 06:29:10 PM
I see some of those commemorating the Connaught(sic) Rangers in Boyle yesterday were wearing the hated poppy symbol of the British Murder Machine  >:( >:( :(
Why the fcuk can they not simply remember the men from the former Regiment who died without strutting around with that hated yoke stuck on their coats.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

For a start Alex Maskey is better looking  :D
Genius.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Maskey led a wreath and not at the same time as the pomp and triumphalist ceremonial activities that Ritchie partook in. His was a wreath not a poppy, it was to acknowledge that yes, men did die, Irishmen among them and they deserve to be remembered. About that I think we can all agree. The point is she is wearing a poppy that represents just British servicemen and all wars that they fought in. There is a clear difference and yes it is pandering to maintain her votes.
Well she has stated the basis for her wearing it:
QuoteMs Ritchie, South Down MP, said her party believed in reconciliation on the island of Ireland and wanted to acknowledge Irish nationalists who fought in two world wars and had been airbrushed out of history.
"We have to reach out and I was doing that by reaching out to those who lost loved ones in both wars," she said.
"I simply see this as an act of remembrance, an act of respect, moving on and reaching out."

Some will agree, some won't. Although I wouldn't call it a 'triumphalist' ceremony.
It's no doubt part of the wider strategy to reach out to Unionists.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:23:37 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 15, 2010, 09:12:14 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

The difference is that Maskey's wreath-laying was part of his official duties as Lord Mayor. It was part of the job description. Margaret Ritchie chose to wear hers. Although given the overwhelming pressure on people to conform as exemplfied by the whole Donna Traynor incident, I'm not sure she was entirely free to choose. And that is the crucial point
Rubbish. Since when did Sinn Fein do something because it was "part of the job description"? The job description for Westminster says you sit in Westminster.
He did it because he wanted to - and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

For a start Alex Maskey is better looking  :D
Genius.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Maskey led a wreath and not at the same time as the pomp and triumphalist ceremonial activities that Ritchie partook in. His was a wreath not a poppy, it was to acknowledge that yes, men did die, Irishmen among them and they deserve to be remembered. About that I think we can all agree. The point is she is wearing a poppy that represents just British servicemen and all wars that they fought in. There is a clear difference and yes it is pandering to maintain her votes.
Well she has stated the basis for her wearing it:
QuoteMs Ritchie, South Down MP, said her party believed in reconciliation on the island of Ireland and wanted to acknowledge Irish nationalists who fought in two world wars and had been airbrushed out of history.
"We have to reach out and I was doing that by reaching out to those who lost loved ones in both wars," she said.
"I simply see this as an act of remembrance, an act of respect, moving on and reaching out."

Some will agree, some won't. Although I wouldn't call it a 'triumphalist' ceremony.
It's no doubt part of the wider strategy to reach out to Unionists.

maguire that's sugarcoating if ever i heard it  :D

outreach to unionists in this instance in your words is a pathetic attempt on spin of pandering and stooping for votes to maintain her unquenchable thirst for power and you know it well.

The Shinners appointed a dedicated party member to deal with unionist outreach long ago and work quietly behind the scenes, not strutting about a memorial, stoney faced with a flower hanging off their lapel
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:38:33 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

For a start Alex Maskey is better looking  :D
Genius.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Maskey led a wreath and not at the same time as the pomp and triumphalist ceremonial activities that Ritchie partook in. His was a wreath not a poppy, it was to acknowledge that yes, men did die, Irishmen among them and they deserve to be remembered. About that I think we can all agree. The point is she is wearing a poppy that represents just British servicemen and all wars that they fought in. There is a clear difference and yes it is pandering to maintain her votes.
Well she has stated the basis for her wearing it:
QuoteMs Ritchie, South Down MP, said her party believed in reconciliation on the island of Ireland and wanted to acknowledge Irish nationalists who fought in two world wars and had been airbrushed out of history.
"We have to reach out and I was doing that by reaching out to those who lost loved ones in both wars," she said.
"I simply see this as an act of remembrance, an act of respect, moving on and reaching out."

Some will agree, some won't. Although I wouldn't call it a 'triumphalist' ceremony.
It's no doubt part of the wider strategy to reach out to Unionists.

maguire that's sugarcoating if ever i heard it  :D

outreach to unionists in this instance in your words is a pathetic attempt on spin of pandering and stooping for votes to maintain her unquenchable thirst for power and you know it well.

The Shinners appointed a dedicated party member to deal with unionist outreach long ago and work quietly behind the scenes, not strutting about a memorial, stoney faced with a flower hanging off their lapel
And what has she achieved?

There are serious double standards at play. Gerry says a handful of protestants in West Belfast voted for him and it's hailed as a success (even if the claim itself was dubious). Thousands of protestants vote for Ritchie in South Down and it's a source of ridicule.

At the end of the day, you can mock, but if you're trying to convince Unionists that a United Ireland is a good idea, i'd put my money on Ritchie before Anderson.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:38:33 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

For a start Alex Maskey is better looking  :D
Genius.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Maskey led a wreath and not at the same time as the pomp and triumphalist ceremonial activities that Ritchie partook in. His was a wreath not a poppy, it was to acknowledge that yes, men did die, Irishmen among them and they deserve to be remembered. About that I think we can all agree. The point is she is wearing a poppy that represents just British servicemen and all wars that they fought in. There is a clear difference and yes it is pandering to maintain her votes.
Well she has stated the basis for her wearing it:
QuoteMs Ritchie, South Down MP, said her party believed in reconciliation on the island of Ireland and wanted to acknowledge Irish nationalists who fought in two world wars and had been airbrushed out of history.
"We have to reach out and I was doing that by reaching out to those who lost loved ones in both wars," she said.
"I simply see this as an act of remembrance, an act of respect, moving on and reaching out."

Some will agree, some won't. Although I wouldn't call it a 'triumphalist' ceremony.
It's no doubt part of the wider strategy to reach out to Unionists.

maguire that's sugarcoating if ever i heard it  :D

outreach to unionists in this instance in your words is a pathetic attempt on spin of pandering and stooping for votes to maintain her unquenchable thirst for power and you know it well.

The Shinners appointed a dedicated party member to deal with unionist outreach long ago and work quietly behind the scenes, not strutting about a memorial, stoney faced with a flower hanging off their lapel
And what has she achieved?

There are serious double standards at play. Gerry says a handful of protestants in West Belfast voted for him and it's hailed as a success (even if the claim itself was dubious). Thousands of protestants vote for Ritchie in South Down and it's a source of ridicule.

At the end of the day, you can mock, but if you're trying to convince Unionists that a United Ireland is a good idea, i'd put my money on Ritchie before Anderson.

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:48:44 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:38:33 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 15, 2010, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 15, 2010, 12:42:46 AM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49936000/jpg/_49936706_ritchiepoppy.jpg)

::)
Again, the difference between this and Alex Maskey laying a wreath at the City Hall?

For a start Alex Maskey is better looking  :D
Genius.

Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Maskey led a wreath and not at the same time as the pomp and triumphalist ceremonial activities that Ritchie partook in. His was a wreath not a poppy, it was to acknowledge that yes, men did die, Irishmen among them and they deserve to be remembered. About that I think we can all agree. The point is she is wearing a poppy that represents just British servicemen and all wars that they fought in. There is a clear difference and yes it is pandering to maintain her votes.
Well she has stated the basis for her wearing it:
QuoteMs Ritchie, South Down MP, said her party believed in reconciliation on the island of Ireland and wanted to acknowledge Irish nationalists who fought in two world wars and had been airbrushed out of history.
"We have to reach out and I was doing that by reaching out to those who lost loved ones in both wars," she said.
"I simply see this as an act of remembrance, an act of respect, moving on and reaching out."

Some will agree, some won't. Although I wouldn't call it a 'triumphalist' ceremony.
It's no doubt part of the wider strategy to reach out to Unionists.

maguire that's sugarcoating if ever i heard it  :D

outreach to unionists in this instance in your words is a pathetic attempt on spin of pandering and stooping for votes to maintain her unquenchable thirst for power and you know it well.

The Shinners appointed a dedicated party member to deal with unionist outreach long ago and work quietly behind the scenes, not strutting about a memorial, stoney faced with a flower hanging off their lapel
And what has she achieved?

There are serious double standards at play. Gerry says a handful of protestants in West Belfast voted for him and it's hailed as a success (even if the claim itself was dubious). Thousands of protestants vote for Ritchie in South Down and it's a source of ridicule.

At the end of the day, you can mock, but if you're trying to convince Unionists that a United Ireland is a good idea, i'd put my money on Ritchie before Anderson.

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?
It's as high on their agenda as anyone else's.
But it's not happening in the near future anyway, for any amount of reasons - anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. So a long-term strategy is normalisation and integration.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hereiam on November 15, 2010, 10:50:48 PM
I'm sorry but this woman hasn't a clue. She is counting on the young people who never really expearinced the troubles and are fresh voters to vote SDLP. They won't its as simple as that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 15, 2010, 11:17:26 PM
Arguing about united irelands one minute then x-factor the next

Personally find it hard to take someone seriously when x factor takes up part his/her daily thoughts.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: norabeag on November 15, 2010, 11:55:15 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 11, 2010, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 11, 2010, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 11, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
Ritchie is going to be the ruination of the stoops.  An awful politician.
Agreed

(http://www.callcentrehelper.com/CC_graphics2/fingers-crossed.jpg)

ritchie is the most hated politician in lots of areas of south down and that includes the unionists. her only support is in her home town of downpatrick and with unionists determined to keep the shinners out at any cost. her decision to wear a poppy just shows how out of touch the sdlp have become with working class nationlists.
She's not from Downpatrick and we would never claimed her. As far as I recall she's from Crossgar/Sainfield area. Though faced with a choice between her and Ruane well, it really was some choice!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 16, 2010, 12:30:18 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 15, 2010, 05:46:12 PM
Saw a guy wearing one as he past me in gordons chemist earlier. Now that
Rememberance Sunday is over, when are they put away?

I saw a bloke this morning, with one on his dog's collar.  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?
[/quote]

Do you honestly think, Bananaman, that 51% of people living in the 26 counties want a united ireland ?  Most of them couldn't care less. 
And who do you think would pay for it ? The European Central Bank ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:54:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?

Do you honestly think, Bananaman, that 51% of people living in the 26 counties want a united ireland ?  Most of them couldn't care less. 
And who do you think would pay for it ? The European Central Bank ?
[/quote]

i think a better question seafoid would be do we want to join you's the mess you's are in. People ridicule the leaders in the north but it ain't any better in Mexico lad.

And yes I do believe it is well over 51%
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:59:09 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 15, 2010, 11:17:26 PM
Arguing about united irelands one minute then x-factor the next

Personally find it hard to take someone seriously when x factor takes up part his/her daily thoughts.

your some boy skull, that's 2 little jabs you have had without coming out and saying it straight, in short your spineless, mention my name if you want to have a pop instead of shooting from the sidelines.

I might not agree with Maguire but I respect that he argues his case and engages me directly. But you need to grow a set.

As for the unimpressive attempt at a pop quoted above I didn't realise there was a pre-requisite of TV programming that was required/excluded in order to be able to debate politics  ::)

Must try harder Skull
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Sallylalala on November 16, 2010, 10:00:52 AM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Mary Byrne has NEVER worn a poppy on the X Factor, check back her You Tube videos, she's never, ever worn one.  I've noticed that every week.  Louis Walsh certainly does, I don't know about the lad from West Meath. 

But Mary has definitely not worn one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?

Do you honestly think, Bananaman, that 51% of people living in the 26 counties want a united ireland ?  Most of them couldn't care less. 
And who do you think would pay for it ? The European Central Bank ?
[/quote]

Are you one of those people who don't want a united Ireland seafoid?

I don't think nationalists/republicans in the north need to be reminded that a large degree of free state f***ers don't give a fcuk about their fellow countrymen in the six counties, as long as their county falls into one of the 26 freed ones.

History will judge ye lot very very poorly.

Although in saying that, whislt I agree that most, to their shame, don't understand and don't give a sh1t about the north of the country, if it came to a vote, yes, over 51% would vote for a UI. A LOT more.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 10:21:01 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?

Do you honestly think, Bananaman, that 51% of people living in the 26 counties want a united ireland ?  Most of them couldn't care less. 
And who do you think would pay for it ? The European Central Bank ?

Are you one of those people who don't want a united Ireland seafoid?
I don't think nationalists/republicans in the north need to be reminded that a large degree of free state f***ers don't give a fcuk about their fellow countrymen in the six counties, as long as their county falls into one of the 26 freed ones.
History will judge ye lot very very poorly. Although in saying that, whislt I agree that most, to their shame, don't understand and don't give a sh1t about the north of the country, if it came to a vote, yes, over 51% would vote for a UI. A LOT more.
[/quote]

I don't think the average FF moron voter cares about Northern Ireland, to be honest.  What did the South fritter the boom away on? PS salaries and an insane property mania. There was no investment in Northern Ireland other than property speculation.   When do you think southerners are likely to wake up ?
I would love to see my fellow citizens taking an interest in NI but most of them are too shortsighted and greedy.  They don't give a flying sausage about the Irish language either. 

I see the current situation continuing indefinitely. Northern Ireland is like A intersection B from maths. It is neither fully Irish nor fully British.  If I were a Unionist living in Northern Ireland all I would want is someone to keep funding my statelet. And the Brits are currently doing that. They don't want Northern Ireland either really but they feel some sort of fiscal responsibility.

Northern Ireland is a bigger version of Gibraltar.     
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 10:27:55 AM
there was some poll recently -or while during a survey, a question was asked about whether people wanted a re-united Ireland.
Most voters (I think around 65%) said they would like to see it alright.
Its not a 'demand' for it, but people in the south certainly would like to see things back the way they should be.
However, there is the whole question of economy and jobs first.
I always mainteinted that there will have to be perfect economic conditions along with the majority population swing in the north before reunification happens. the population swing will soon be there, the economic conditions wont be for a while.

Nally & Bananaman - dont think that people n the south DONT care, its just that there are other more pressing things that need to be rectified before thinking about the 'nice to haves' !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 10:45:34 AM
I don't think people realise in what bad a state the Norn irn economy is.
Something like 40% of GDP is public sector. The economy was destroyed by "the Troubles".
And never recovered.  Plus they never got over the loss of the old prod industries like shipbuilding and linen
And there is a huge problem with the non working non educated Prod underclass. 
Northern Ireland will never be financially independent. 

Maybe the south won't either over the medium term  but that is more of a FF thing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 10:52:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 10:45:34 AM
I don't think people realise in what bad a state the Norn irn economy is.
Something like 40% of GDP is public sector. The economy was destroyed by "the Troubles".
And never recovered.  Plus they never got over the loss of the old prod industries like shipbuilding and linen
And there is a huge problem with the non working non educated Prod underclass. 
Northern Ireland will never be financially independent. 
Maybe the south won't either over the medium term  but that is more of a FF thing.
actually Seafoid - there is massive undertakings to attract dev and industry to th enorth.
huge tax breaks and incentives.
I know of a number of companies in IT sector that have set up in the north or just set up offices and employees there as a branch of their HQ's - on the back of tax breaks and capital investment from British and Irish gov's !

it will take a while but if this continues, they will have a platform - akin to our own - with low corporation taxation bringing them in.

As the north has no history of decent ICT employment - the companies dont have any proper medium to advertise for jobs, and potential candidates dont seem to know where to look.
jobs websites apparantly get hits in in the dozens and the belfast telegraph (the traditional advertisment vehicle for job in the north) got three responses to a multi jobs advert in the past 6 months (IT related roles).
That just shows that the north doesnt have the candidates- as there are jobs up there but they cant get the people !! So if any of these public sector types can see the wood from the trees and are suitably qualified, they should jump fromthat sinking ship now!
There could be light at the end of that eco disasterous tunnel that is the northern economy !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 16, 2010, 11:09:38 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 10:52:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 10:45:34 AM
I don't think people realise in what bad a state the Norn irn economy is.
Something like 40% of GDP is public sector. The economy was destroyed by "the Troubles".
And never recovered.  Plus they never got over the loss of the old prod industries like shipbuilding and linen
And there is a huge problem with the non working non educated Prod underclass. 
Northern Ireland will never be financially independent. 
Maybe the south won't either over the medium term  but that is more of a FF thing.
actually Seafoid - there is massive undertakings to attract dev and industry to th enorth.
huge tax breaks and incentives.
I know of a number of companies in IT sector that have set up in the north or just set up offices and employees there as a branch of their HQ's - on the back of tax breaks and capital investment from British and Irish gov's !

it will take a while but if this continues, they will have a platform - akin to our own - with low corporation taxation bringing them in.

As the north has no history of decent ICT employment - the companies dont have any proper medium to advertise for jobs, and potential candidates dont seem to know where to look.
jobs websites apparantly get hits in in the dozens and the belfast telegraph (the traditional advertisment vehicle for job in the north) got three responses to a multi jobs advert in the past 6 months (IT related roles).
That just shows that the north doesnt have the candidates- as there are jobs up there but they cant get the people !! So if any of these public sector types can see the wood from the trees and are suitably qualified, they should jump fromthat sinking ship now!
There could be light at the end of that eco disasterous tunnel that is the northern economy !
Our place can't get software developers in the door. However does the situation not show that the North needs to diversify and move away from a reliance on IT jobs created by multinationals with no ties there other than grant aid.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 11:13:39 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:59:09 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 15, 2010, 11:17:26 PM
Arguing about united irelands one minute then x-factor the next

Personally find it hard to take someone seriously when x factor takes up part his/her daily thoughts.

your some boy skull, that's 2 little jabs you have had without coming out and saying it straight, in short your spineless, mention my name if you want to have a pop instead of shooting from the sidelines.

I might not agree with Maguire but I respect that he argues his case and engages me directly. But you need to grow a set.

As for the unimpressive attempt at a pop quoted above I didn't realise there was a pre-requisite of TV programming that was required/excluded in order to be able to debate politics  ::)

Must try harder Skull
:)

I am arguing that you trying to make serious political comment one minute then tittle tattle opinions about the X factor the next, makes it impossible for me to take anything you say on these types of issues seriously. That show appeals in general to an audience that lacks the ability to think beyond the everyday minutia . Do you think the serious thinkers of our time would engage in conversions about rubbish such the Xfaxtor, bar venomously ridiculing it and its negative affects on populations? Open your eyes man  ;)



Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 11:22:10 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 16, 2010, 11:09:38 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 10:52:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 10:45:34 AM
I don't think people realise in what bad a state the Norn irn economy is.
Something like 40% of GDP is public sector. The economy was destroyed by "the Troubles".
And never recovered.  Plus they never got over the loss of the old prod industries like shipbuilding and linen
And there is a huge problem with the non working non educated Prod underclass. 
Northern Ireland will never be financially independent. 
Maybe the south won't either over the medium term  but that is more of a FF thing.
actually Seafoid - there is massive undertakings to attract dev and industry to th enorth.
huge tax breaks and incentives.
I know of a number of companies in IT sector that have set up in the north or just set up offices and employees there as a branch of their HQ's - on the back of tax breaks and capital investment from British and Irish gov's !

it will take a while but if this continues, they will have a platform - akin to our own - with low corporation taxation bringing them in.

As the north has no history of decent ICT employment - the companies dont have any proper medium to advertise for jobs, and potential candidates dont seem to know where to look.
jobs websites apparantly get hits in in the dozens and the belfast telegraph (the traditional advertisment vehicle for job in the north) got three responses to a multi jobs advert in the past 6 months (IT related roles).
That just shows that the north doesnt have the candidates- as there are jobs up there but they cant get the people !! So if any of these public sector types can see the wood from the trees and are suitably qualified, they should jump fromthat sinking ship now!
There could be light at the end of that eco disasterous tunnel that is the northern economy !
Our place can't get software developers in the door. However does the situation not show that the North needs to diversify and move away from a reliance on IT jobs created by multinationals with no ties there other than grant aid.
once the north starts to be seen as a place where IT jobs are, it will attract a lot from the south - however there is a bit of a shortage in IT candidates down here right now too.
Eventually, if the corporation tax was set up to remain low and reflecting that of the south, the IT jobs and ICT sector would remain in good health and retain large employment.
You could say that re-unification would copper fasten this.
However if Ireland has to receive a 'bailout' it remains to be seen if a condition of this or behind the scenes agreement- would be to bring the Irish coprorate taxation rate into line with rest of EU.
then the whole of Ireland would be fecked and we are back to the 70's/80's again but this time with no outlet of USA/OZ/UK to jump to !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 11:32:24 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 11:13:39 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:59:09 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 15, 2010, 11:17:26 PM
Arguing about united irelands one minute then x-factor the next

Personally find it hard to take someone seriously when x factor takes up part his/her daily thoughts.

your some boy skull, that's 2 little jabs you have had without coming out and saying it straight, in short your spineless, mention my name if you want to have a pop instead of shooting from the sidelines.

I might not agree with Maguire but I respect that he argues his case and engages me directly. But you need to grow a set.

As for the unimpressive attempt at a pop quoted above I didn't realise there was a pre-requisite of TV programming that was required/excluded in order to be able to debate politics  ::)

Must try harder Skull
:)

I am arguing that you trying to make serious political comment one minute then tittle tattle opinions about the X factor the next, makes it impossible for me to take anything you say on these types of issues seriously. That show appeals in general to an audience that lacks the ability to think beyond the everyday minutia . Do you think the serious thinkers of our time would engage in conversions about rubbish such the Xfaxtor, bar venomously ridiculing it and its negative affects on populations? Open your eyes man  ;)

right so in YOUR OPINION people who have serious political opinions aren't allowed to watch certain programming because that would impinge on their ability to think through proper policies  ::)

Also everyone that watches these type of shows do not or should not be allowed to have a political opinion but should let other people with no outside interests or a TV in their house for that matter decide what direction the entire country should go in.

so you know every single person that watches X Factor or at the very least have conducted a poll drawn from X Factor viewers, asked them politically geared questions, broken down the results and you used this as the basis for your wide sweeping generalisation.

FFS catch a grip of reality
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 11:32:24 AM
right so in YOUR OPINION people who have serious political opinions aren't allowed to watch certain programming because that would impinge on their ability to think through proper policies  ::)
Didn't say that. I said it puts into question their ability to make valid political arguments that should be listened to when they actively choose to watch egocentric bile like the xfactor. Do you think someone like Noam Chomsky sits down after dinner to watch American Idol or Paris Hilton Be My Best Friend?  :)

Quote
Also everyone that watches these type of shows do not or should not be allowed to have a political opinion but should let other people with no outside interests or a TV in their house for that matter decide what direction the entire country should go in.
Yes to the first part because I believe in general that people who are drawn to watch absolute rubbish like xfactor lack the ability to REALLY think. The fact that they decide to watch it exposes that reality. Draconian maybe but there you go. No to the second part...just how did you interpret that that was what I was saying from my previous post???

Quote
so you know every single person that watches X Factor or at the very least have conducted a poll drawn from X Factor viewers, asked them politically geared questions, broken down the results and you used this as the basis for your wide sweeping generalisation.
No...it's from my own observations of the people I know who dig the xfactor. They (in general) don't want to think beyond the everyday to do's in life. Ignorance is bliss for many and many watch the xfactor...I happen to think they are the same people. It's an unpalatable truth but I believe it's a truth none the less.

Quote
FFS catch a grip of reality
What? Of your reality? No thanks
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 12:28:27 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 11:32:24 AM
right so in YOUR OPINION people who have serious political opinions aren't allowed to watch certain programming because that would impinge on their ability to think through proper policies  ::)
Didn't say that. I said it puts into question their ability to make valid political arguments that should be listened to when they actively choose to watch egocentric bile like the xfactor. Do you think someone like Noam Chomsky sits down after dinner to watch American Idol or Paris Hilton Be My Best Friend?  :)

Quote
Also everyone that watches these type of shows do not or should not be allowed to have a political opinion but should let other people with no outside interests or a TV in their house for that matter decide what direction the entire country should go in.
Yes to the first part because I believe in general that people who are drawn to watch absolute rubbish like xfactor lack the ability to REALLY think. The fact that they decide to watch it exposes that reality. Draconian maybe but there you go. No to the second part...just how did you interpret that that was what I was saying from my previous post???

Quote
so you know every single person that watches X Factor or at the very least have conducted a poll drawn from X Factor viewers, asked them politically geared questions, broken down the results and you used this as the basis for your wide sweeping generalisation.
No...it's from my own observations of the people I know who dig the xfactor. They (in general) don't want to think beyond the everyday to do's in life. Ignorance is bliss for many and many watch the xfactor...I happen to think they are the same people. It's an unpalatable truth but I believe it's a truth none the less.

Quote
FFS catch a grip of reality
What? Of your reality? No thanks

well i think i can safely say you didn't make it through to judges house the skull, why so bitter did you try and sing a song in front of the judges the same way you try to structure (i use the term loosely) an argument i.e. make it up as you go along and devise your own tune.

Again you are assuming what people watch, how do you know what Noam Chomsky watches, let me guess, you done what you done with x factor viewers and made it up.

You have just stated that everyone who watches these shows should not be allowed a political opinion, well hitler is alive and well on the sod. Why don't you strip the vote of women and dish out votes based on the value of the rates you pay, maybe it's carson or craig that you are, you would like to reverse the civil rights movement.

You probably hate free speech too  ::)

so apart from standing sniping, what's your opinion, do you have one? maybe you don't have time, you're too busy standing in the bathroom singing into the mirror saying to yourself i'll prove Cowell and that whole X Factor show wrong

that's the spirit buddy, you keep trying  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 16, 2010, 12:44:26 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 11:32:24 AM
right so in YOUR OPINION people who have serious political opinions aren't allowed to watch certain programming because that would impinge on their ability to think through proper policies  ::)
Didn't say that. I said it puts into question their ability to make valid political arguments that should be listened to when they actively choose to watch egocentric bile like the xfactor. Do you think someone like Noam Chomsky sits down after dinner to watch American Idol or Paris Hilton Be My Best Friend?  :)

Quote
Also everyone that watches these type of shows do not or should not be allowed to have a political opinion but should let other people with no outside interests or a TV in their house for that matter decide what direction the entire country should go in.
Yes to the first part because I believe in general that people who are drawn to watch absolute rubbish like xfactor lack the ability to REALLY think. The fact that they decide to watch it exposes that reality. Draconian maybe but there you go. No to the second part...just how did you interpret that that was what I was saying from my previous post???

Quote
so you know every single person that watches X Factor or at the very least have conducted a poll drawn from X Factor viewers, asked them politically geared questions, broken down the results and you used this as the basis for your wide sweeping generalisation.
No...it's from my own observations of the people I know who dig the xfactor. They (in general) don't want to think beyond the everyday to do's in life. Ignorance is bliss for many and many watch the xfactor...I happen to think they are the same people. It's an unpalatable truth but I believe it's a truth none the less.

Quote
FFS catch a grip of reality
What? Of your reality? No thanks

Unbelievable snobbery Skull ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 12:53:37 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 12:28:27 PM
well i think i can safely say you didn't make it through to judges house the skull, why so bitter did you try and sing a song in front of the judges the same way you try to structure (i use the term loosely) an argument i.e. make it up as you go along and devise your own tune.


Close... I sang four green fields (on reflection I wish I'd have wore a poppy....might have helped my chances)

Simon said both I and the song weren't relevant to todays audience (consumers)
Cheryl thought a drum and bass mix might help the song. She winked at me as well .....which was nice
Danny liked it....think it was the fine old woman references
Lewy thought that jedwards version was much better

So 3 no's and 1 yes...that was me out. You can't argue with democracy can you?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 12:58:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 16, 2010, 12:44:26 PM
Unbelievable snobbery Skull ::)

Some will say snobbery. I prefer to consider it a form of despair.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 12:59:14 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 12:53:37 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 12:28:27 PM
well i think i can safely say you didn't make it through to judges house the skull, why so bitter did you try and sing a song in front of the judges the same way you try to structure (i use the term loosely) an argument i.e. make it up as you go along and devise your own tune.


Close... I sang four green fields (on reflection I wish I'd have wore a poppy....might have helped my chances)

Simon said both I and the song weren't relevant to todays audience (consumers)
Cheryl thought a drum and bass mix might help the song. She winked at me as well .....which was nice
Danny liked it....think it was the fine old woman references
Lewy thought that jedwards version was much better

So 3 no's and 1 yes...that was me out. You can't argue with democracy can you?

you would have thought that but you're giving it a quare go
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2010, 02:20:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 10:21:01 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?

Do you honestly think, Bananaman, that 51% of people living in the 26 counties want a united ireland ?  Most of them couldn't care less. 
And who do you think would pay for it ? The European Central Bank ?

Are you one of those people who don't want a united Ireland seafoid?
I don't think nationalists/republicans in the north need to be reminded that a large degree of free state f***ers don't give a fcuk about their fellow countrymen in the six counties, as long as their county falls into one of the 26 freed ones.
History will judge ye lot very very poorly. Although in saying that, whislt I agree that most, to their shame, don't understand and don't give a sh1t about the north of the country, if it came to a vote, yes, over 51% would vote for a UI. A LOT more.

I don't think the average FF moron voter cares about Northern Ireland, to be honest.  What did the South fritter the boom away on? PS salaries and an insane property mania. There was no investment in Northern Ireland other than property speculation.   When do you think southerners are likely to wake up ?
I would love to see my fellow citizens taking an interest in NI but most of them are too shortsighted and greedy.  They don't give a flying sausage about the Irish language either. 

I see the current situation continuing indefinitely. Northern Ireland is like A intersection B from maths. It is neither fully Irish nor fully British.  If I were a Unionist living in Northern Ireland all I would want is someone to keep funding my statelet. And the Brits are currently doing that. They don't want Northern Ireland either really but they feel some sort of fiscal responsibility.

Northern Ireland is a bigger version of Gibraltar.   
[/quote]
That is a big statement which doesn't actually stack up, Kerry Group for example own and invest in the north, the southern government have also invested here as have many other countries, people forget that the state of the Irish economy was down to wreckless lending by the banks and much of to northerners, and who is footing the bill? you got it southern taxpayers.
On the national question, one of the few sensible commentators on unity is Conal McDevitt from the SDLP, who has posed the question as to what unity actually means in the current situation, he is wasted in the SDLP imo.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)

another valuable contribution there bigfella  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 02:56:40 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 12:59:14 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 12:53:37 PM
You can't argue with democracy can you?

you would have thought that but you're giving it a quare go

But it's a corrupt regime. Surely a man like yourself can empathise with my difficulty with corrupt regimes  ;)

Between you and me I think it's not really a singing contest at all. It's primarily a vehicle for Simon Cowell to make loads of money off dumb teenagers/adults as he creates drama, controversy and razzamatazz as a smokescreen. I reckon all the judges and wagner are in on it. I know thats crazy mans thinking but there, I've said it.  :-[

Theres me babbling on...whats this thread about again?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)

another valuable contribution there bigfella  ::)

As valuable as yours but then again I'm not deluding myself that I have anything new to bring to the table.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 03:09:48 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:54:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?

Do you honestly think, Bananaman, that 51% of people living in the 26 counties want a united ireland ?  Most of them couldn't care less. 
And who do you think would pay for it ? The European Central Bank ?

i think a better question seafoid would be do we want to join you's the mess you's are in. People ridicule the leaders in the north but it ain't any better in Mexico lad.

And yes I do believe it is well over 51%[/quote]

I demand some evidence to back this statement up.

If can't produce any you're a snob.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 16, 2010, 03:17:10 PM
Lynchbhoy,
You can delude yourself all you like over debateable topics like how many people in the ROI really want a UI, or whether the British Govt is going to go on supporting/subsidising NI's place in the Union etc.

Fwiw, I personally am very confident that when we both draw our last breath, there will only be one of us in shock that it won't be in a United Ireland.

But no matter. It is when you start making things up to support your case which are capable of being factually and indepentally rebutted, that you end up looking silly.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 10:52:25 AMthere is massive undertakings to attract dev and industry to th enorth.

huge tax breaks and incentives

I know of a number of companies in IT sector that have set up in the north or just set up offices and employees there as a branch of their HQ's - on the back of tax breaks and capital investment from British and Irish gov's !

it will take a while but if this continues, they will have a platform - akin to our own - with low corporation taxation bringing them in.
To get these (unspecified) incentives out of the way first, of course as the most economically deprived region of the UK, NI benefits from certain incentives. However, it is by no means the only such region to benefit, as eg Scotland, Wales and NE England could testify.

And even where these do exist, as often as not they are "outbid" by equivalent incentives which the ROI is able to offer as a whole, since they (ROI) are not inhibited by EU prohibition on State Aid to regions within a particular country (i.e. NI within UK).

Moreover, what few local NI incentives that exist are likely to be swept away by the "Bonfire of the Quangos" which the Coalition Govt has pormised everyone.

And moving on to the "huge tax breaks" from which NI supposedly benefits, what exactly are these?

Our tax rates are essentially the same as the rest of the UK, with the most important in terms of investment and jobs etc being Corporation Tax.

And Corporation Tax in NI (UK) is currently 28% - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/corp.htm . Whereas CT in ROI is currently 12.5% - as you well know.

Of course, I say "currently", since two things are capable of changing this. First, when (not "if") the EU/IMF bail-out of the ROI takes place, it seems very likely that one of the prices which will have to be paid is a raising of the ROI's CT rate to one nearer that of the rest of the EU.

Whereas by contrast, there is a lobby to presuade HMG that NI should be permitted to benefit from a lowering of the CT rate locally, in order to help it recover economically. Of course, this would need to come within the EU State Aid rules I mentioned above, but it is thought likely that this could be done via a corresponding decrease in the general NI subvention from Whitehall.

And as this authoritative study argues, this could bring immense competitive benefits to NI, if implemented:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmniaf/writev/corptax/we05.htm

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 10:52:25 AM
As the north has no history of decent ICT employment - the companies dont have any proper medium to advertise for jobs, and potential candidates dont seem to know where to look.
jobs websites apparantly get hits in in the dozens and the belfast telegraph (the traditional advertisment vehicle for job in the north) got three responses to a multi jobs advert in the past 6 months (IT related roles).

That just shows that the north doesnt have the candidates- as there are jobs up there but they cant get the people !!

I think you devalue the employment pool available to investors in NI.
For example, the NI boss of Citigroup specifically mentioned this as the No.1 attraction of NI in an interview last year:
http://www.wheretowork.com/news/news.asp?articleid=956

And since then, Citi have announced plans to expand significantly:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11692964
Of course, the above move was helped by a "sweetener" from Invest NI, but £8m is peanuts really, the kind of figure which was regularly trumped by the ROI's equivalent (when the ROI had the money, that is).

Naturally, there will always be a danger that we suffer a skill shortage in certain specialise dareas, but as experience has shown, if we can get Poles and portugese to come to NI to work in chicken processing plants, it shouldn't be too difficult to attract their more skilled counterparts.

If nothing else, we are bound to be able to attract our share of economic migrants from South of the border. After all, it would fit in nicely with buying up your bankrupt companies:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8517566.stm

Of course, I am not saying everything is rosy for NI on the economic front, far from it. Indeed, I am sure there is a lot more pain to come before things get better. However, the exact same applies to ROI (and then some).

In any case, I genuinely believe that our prospects as an integral part of a much larger and intinsically stronger economy than that of the ROI, will protect us much better than our counterparts in the ROI will face when the EU/IMF Auditors come calling.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:24:41 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 03:09:48 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:54:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?

Do you honestly think, Bananaman, that 51% of people living in the 26 counties want a united ireland ?  Most of them couldn't care less. 
And who do you think would pay for it ? The European Central Bank ?

i think a better question seafoid would be do we want to join you's the mess you's are in. People ridicule the leaders in the north but it ain't any better in Mexico lad.

And yes I do believe it is well over 51%

I demand some evidence to back this statement up.

If can't produce any you're a snob.
[/quote]

Ya see there's your problem right there Gallsman, I would say you near creamed yourself thinking you had me. Firstly I never called you a snob, secondly I said I believe it to be over 51%, I didn't say it was over 51%. It is my perception and continues to be therefore i don't need evidence.

If i said it was over 51% i would have to back up the claim, I see you weren't in Trinity the day they taught how to differentiate, perhaps that's how you swapped universities, you dandered into the wrong building one day as you couldn't tell the difference??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)
Ah i think there are some good nuggets on this thread!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 03:27:26 PM

Well the proof of recent change is on the side of the eventual re-unification. There is only one way this is going and what we will differ on is when this will happen. I expect it sooner rather than later. Apart from that it will eventually happen, both of us can only speculate and the only other definite is that the economic climate will have to be 'right'.

You being based in england or wherever – not on Ireland – obv just don't know.
I know a few companies that have gained tax breaks by putting in offices/development centres in the north of Ireland - initially Irish based companies –the IDA down here are working in conjunction with the ni board – invest ni or whatever appropriate board it is – I forget which.

I meant to point out citi as an example. They are one such company.
How it is doing it I am not quite sure - as to whatever the agreement is in conjunction with the IDA, but citi and a few more that I wont divulge have gone through this route and its financially attractive as otherwise - as I have been told- they wouldnt be going near the north of Ireland - not because they dont like it , its just because they would never have thought of going there !


The fact remains, I know of a few of these companies through IT and HR contacts who are finding it more or less impossible to get staff in the north of Ireland.
First hand info. you can write more lengthy responses – but like your last one, it doesn't actually contain any real argument.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:28:07 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 02:56:40 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 12:59:14 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 12:53:37 PM
You can't argue with democracy can you?

you would have thought that but you're giving it a quare go

But it's a corrupt regime. Surely a man like yourself can empathise with my difficulty with corrupt regimes  ;)

Between you and me I think it's not really a singing contest at all. It's primarily a vehicle for Simon Cowell to make loads of money off dumb teenagers/adults as he creates drama, controversy and razzamatazz as a smokescreen. I reckon all the judges and wagner are in on it. I know thats crazy mans thinking but there, I've said it.  :-[

Theres me babbling on...whats this thread about again?

x factor isn't a regime lad, no one is forced to pick up the phone and vote and no one is forced to sit and watch it (if you don't include the wives up and down the country)

so, no. sorry I can't relate to your claim
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)

another valuable contribution there bigfella  ::)

As valuable as yours but then again I'm not deluding myself that I have anything new to bring to the table.

that's a positive development, at least you know you are talking shite
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 03:44:44 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:28:07 PM
x factor isn't a regime lad, no one is forced to pick up the phone and vote and no one is forced to sit and watch it (if you don't include the wives up and down the country)

so, no. sorry I can't relate to your claim

There was me thinking that the media can actually manipulate the dumb masses to think what they want them to think and do what they want them to do? How stupid of me

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:24:41 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 03:09:48 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:54:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?

Do you honestly think, Bananaman, that 51% of people living in the 26 counties want a united ireland ?  Most of them couldn't care less. 
And who do you think would pay for it ? The European Central Bank ?

i think a better question seafoid would be do we want to join you's the mess you's are in. People ridicule the leaders in the north but it ain't any better in Mexico lad.

And yes I do believe it is well over 51%

I demand some evidence to back this statement up.

If can't produce any you're a snob.

Ya see there's your problem right there Gallsman, I would say you near creamed yourself thinking you had me. Firstly I never called you a snob, secondly I said I believe it to be over 51%, I didn't say it was over 51%. It is my perception and continues to be therefore i don't need evidence.

If i said it was over 51% i would have to back up the claim, I see you weren't in Trinity the day they taught how to differentiate, perhaps that's how you swapped universities, you dandered into the wrong building one day as you couldn't tell the difference??
[/quote]

Which is exactly what I stated a week ago you complete imbecile - that it was my belief based on my own personal insights. What insight do you f**king have to the minds of people south of the border? I don't need to "have you" when you so happily fall on your own sword. You and your best mate Nally have been exposed as narrow minded fools, incapable of even considering the viewpoint of anyone other than yourselves.

Actually no, the reason I moved universities is because I wanted to advance myself and decided to do a masters. But I suppose that makes me a snob.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:48:59 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 03:44:44 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:28:07 PM
x factor isn't a regime lad, no one is forced to pick up the phone and vote and no one is forced to sit and watch it (if you don't include the wives up and down the country)

so, no. sorry I can't relate to your claim

There was me thinking that the media can actually manipulate the dumb masses to think what they want them to think and do what they want them to do? How stupid of me

can they make them lift a phone and dial a number? can they force people to sit and watch certain tv programmes?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 03:54:30 PM
If by them you mean the dumb masses, the answer is they are free to do what the media encourages them to do. So in short yes
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:59:13 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 03:54:30 PM
If by them you mean the dumb masses, the answer is they are free to do what the media encourages them to do. So in short yes

you used the term dumb masses so i'm not sure who you are referring to, I am referring to X Factor viewers and if you mean X factor viewers I would love to see how the media physically makes someone vote or lift a phone
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:24:41 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 03:09:48 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:54:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2010, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 15, 2010, 10:44:29 PM

Tell me this Maguire, do you honestly and genuinely believe that a United Ireland is high on the agenda of Ritchie or even the SDLP for that matter?

Do you honestly think, Bananaman, that 51% of people living in the 26 counties want a united ireland ?  Most of them couldn't care less. 
And who do you think would pay for it ? The European Central Bank ?

i think a better question seafoid would be do we want to join you's the mess you's are in. People ridicule the leaders in the north but it ain't any better in Mexico lad.

And yes I do believe it is well over 51%

I demand some evidence to back this statement up.

If can't produce any you're a snob.

Ya see there's your problem right there Gallsman, I would say you near creamed yourself thinking you had me. Firstly I never called you a snob, secondly I said I believe it to be over 51%, I didn't say it was over 51%. It is my perception and continues to be therefore i don't need evidence.

If i said it was over 51% i would have to back up the claim, I see you weren't in Trinity the day they taught how to differentiate, perhaps that's how you swapped universities, you dandered into the wrong building one day as you couldn't tell the difference??

Which is exactly what I stated a week ago you complete imbecile - that it was my belief based on my own personal insights. What insight do you f**king have to the minds of people south of the border? I don't need to "have you" when you so happily fall on your own sword. You and your best mate Nally have been exposed as narrow minded fools, incapable of even considering the viewpoint of anyone other than yourselves.

Actually no, the reason I moved universities is because I wanted to advance myself and decided to do a masters. But I suppose that makes me a snob.
[/quote]

:D lad the hateness is seeping out of you, you need to stop the fascination with me and Nally. It's seriously not healthy.
btw imbecile is a real word i would associate with someone from trinity, typical arrogant p***k

As for the eidence and snob remarks I am awaiting on you to show where it was me who labelled them at you...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)

another valuable contribution there bigfella  ::)

As valuable as yours but then again I'm not deluding myself that I have anything new to bring to the table.

that's a positive development, at least you know you are talking shite

Talking shite by openly admitting I have nothing new to contribute to the topic and pointing out that this has been discussed in depth in 2 other threads  ::) ::)

Keyboard Republicans, gotta love em :D  What day do you sign on or you too proud to take money from the Brits while you trying to unite Ireland on the GAABoard?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:19:56 PM
"Hateness" What the hell does "hateness" mean? Perhaps you meant hatred. The reason I actually have a vocabularly is clearly a result of the fact I went to Trinity.

You've just confirmed the appropriate nature of the word "imbecile" when used to describe you. Obviously I'm only entitled to do so. Becuase I went to Trinity.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:19:56 PM
"Hateness" What the hell does "hateness" mean? Perhaps you meant hatred. The reason I actually have a vocabularly is clearly a result of the fact I went to Trinity.

You've just confirmed the appropriate nature of the word "imbecile" when used to describe you. Obviously I'm only entitled to do so. Becuase I went to Trinity.

a vocabulary where you can't spell because, you're going well  ;)

anyway i'm still waiting...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:28:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)

another valuable contribution there bigfella  ::)

As valuable as yours but then again I'm not deluding myself that I have anything new to bring to the table.

that's a positive development, at least you know you are talking shite

Talking shite by openly admitting I have nothing new to contribute to the topic and pointing out that this has been discussed in depth in 2 other threads  ::) ::)

Keyboard Republicans, gotta love em :D  What day do you sign on or you too proud to take money from the Brits while you trying to unite Ireland on the GAABoard?

no bigfella i'm to busy paying tax to the Brits to fund the dolites that you seem to know a bit about
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:19:56 PM
"Hateness" What the hell does "hateness" mean? Perhaps you meant hatred. The reason I actually have a vocabularly is clearly a result of the fact I went to Trinity.

You've just confirmed the appropriate nature of the word "imbecile" when used to describe you. Obviously I'm only entitled to do so. Becuase I went to Trinity.

a vocabulary where you can't spell because, you're going well  ;)

anyway i'm still waiting...

No vocab and unable to distinguish (or differentiate if you prefer it like that) between a typo and inability to spell. How tragic. Dreadful indictment of the education system in the north. Seeing as you're obviously about 15 the blame should be laid squarely at the feet of Catriona Ruane.

You're waiting for what? The "snob" remarks? That would be your continued need to reference the fact I went to Trinity - which arose directly from the "snob" comments. Satisfied?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:19:56 PM
"Hateness" What the hell does "hateness" mean? Perhaps you meant hatred. The reason I actually have a vocabularly is clearly a result of the fact I went to Trinity.

You've just confirmed the appropriate nature of the word "imbecile" when used to describe you. Obviously I'm only entitled to do so. Becuase I went to Trinity.

a vocabulary where you can't spell because, you're going well  ;)

anyway i'm still waiting...

No vocab and unable to distinguish (or differentiate if you prefer it like that) between a typo and inability to spell. How tragic. Dreadful indictment of the education system in the north. Seeing as you're obviously about 15 the blame should be laid squarely at the feet of Catriona Ruane.

You're waiting for what? The "snob" remarks? That would be your continued need to reference the fact I went to Trinity - which arose directly from the "snob" comments. Satisfied?

no I'm not satisfied, not that that ever stopped you before, as i previously said we debate then you decide you were right.

So it's a typo is it? when does it become a spelling mistake? I was always taught that a word which includes letters it shouldn't or letters in the wrong order was a mispelt word. Hence the word mispelt. If I'm going to fast feel free to stop me at any time and I can give a quick recap for you

btw you mispelt/typo the word vocabulary above as well

snob and evidence remarks
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 16, 2010, 04:54:09 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:50:25 PMI was always taught that a word which includes letters it shouldn't or letters in the wrong order was a mispelt word. Hence the word mispelt.

No. That would be a misspelt word.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:55:09 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:19:56 PM
"Hateness" What the hell does "hateness" mean? Perhaps you meant hatred. The reason I actually have a vocabularly is clearly a result of the fact I went to Trinity.

You've just confirmed the appropriate nature of the word "imbecile" when used to describe you. Obviously I'm only entitled to do so. Becuase I went to Trinity.

a vocabulary where you can't spell because, you're going well  ;)

anyway i'm still waiting...

No vocab and unable to distinguish (or differentiate if you prefer it like that) between a typo and inability to spell. How tragic. Dreadful indictment of the education system in the north. Seeing as you're obviously about 15 the blame should be laid squarely at the feet of Catriona Ruane.

You're waiting for what? The "snob" remarks? That would be your continued need to reference the fact I went to Trinity - which arose directly from the "snob" comments. Satisfied?

no I'm not satisfied, not that that ever stopped you before, as i previously said we debate then you decide you were right.

So it's a typo is it? when does it become a spelling mistake? I was always taught that a word which includes letters it shouldn't or letters in the wrong order was a mispelt word. Hence the word mispelt. If I'm going to fast feel free to stop me at any time and I can give a quick recap for you

btw you mispelt (typo) the word vocabulary above as well

snob and evidence remarks

Snob and evidence remarks? I've clearly just outlined them above.

The fact they don't satisfy you is none of my concern.

As thebigfella said earlier, the likes of you and Nally are nothing but keyboard republicans - an embarrassment to anybody who gives a shit about this island.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 04:55:49 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:59:13 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 03:54:30 PM
If by them you mean the dumb masses, the answer is they are free to do what the media encourages them to do. So in short yes

you used the term dumb masses so i'm not sure who you are referring to, I am referring to X Factor viewers and if you mean X factor viewers I would love to see how the media physically makes someone vote or lift a phone

Who said anything about "physically make". I think you need to open those eyes BM because you display gross naivety not to think that it is possible to "regiment the public mind every bit as much as an army regiments their bodies."

Has your political musings not considered that reality yet? Shocking!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 05:06:18 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 16, 2010, 04:54:09 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:50:25 PMI was always taught that a word which includes letters it shouldn't or letters in the wrong order was a mispelt word. Hence the word mispelt.

No. That would be a misspelt word.

No hardy that was a typo  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 04:55:49 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:59:13 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 03:54:30 PM
If by them you mean the dumb masses, the answer is they are free to do what the media encourages them to do. So in short yes

you used the term dumb masses so i'm not sure who you are referring to, I am referring to X Factor viewers and if you mean X factor viewers I would love to see how the media physically makes someone vote or lift a phone

Who said anything about "physically make". I think you need to open those eyes BM because you display gross naivety not to think that it is possible to "regiment the public mind every bit as much as an army regiments their bodies."

Has your political musings not considered that reality yet? Shocking!

I said physically because i would like to know how you dial a phone without physically doing it...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:55:09 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 04:19:56 PM
"Hateness" What the hell does "hateness" mean? Perhaps you meant hatred. The reason I actually have a vocabularly is clearly a result of the fact I went to Trinity.

You've just confirmed the appropriate nature of the word "imbecile" when used to describe you. Obviously I'm only entitled to do so. Becuase I went to Trinity.

a vocabulary where you can't spell because, you're going well  ;)

anyway i'm still waiting...

No vocab and unable to distinguish (or differentiate if you prefer it like that) between a typo and inability to spell. How tragic. Dreadful indictment of the education system in the north. Seeing as you're obviously about 15 the blame should be laid squarely at the feet of Catriona Ruane.

You're waiting for what? The "snob" remarks? That would be your continued need to reference the fact I went to Trinity - which arose directly from the "snob" comments. Satisfied?

no I'm not satisfied, not that that ever stopped you before, as i previously said we debate then you decide you were right.

So it's a typo is it? when does it become a spelling mistake? I was always taught that a word which includes letters it shouldn't or letters in the wrong order was a mispelt word. Hence the word mispelt. If I'm going to fast feel free to stop me at any time and I can give a quick recap for you

btw you mispelt (typo) the word vocabulary above as well

snob and evidence remarks

Snob and evidence remarks? I've clearly just outlined them above.

The fact they don't satisfy you is none of my concern.

As thebigfella said earlier, the likes of you and Nally are nothing but keyboard republicans - an embarrassment to anybody who gives a shit about this island.

you identified the words snob and evidence yes but you still haven't shown the connection to me.

keyboard republicans eh, I am assuming you label every republican as a physical force one, in fact I'm certain of it as you can't differentiate between terms as stated earlier. This island as you put it has moved on, we follow a democratic path and I exercise my right to vote which is true to my beliefs so in that sense i am very active.

It's quite amusing also how you latch onto anyone else who posts something in mine or Nally's direction, hoping to try and drive the boot in as you aren't capable for a toe to toe debate on your own. To use one of your phrases - pathetic.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:28:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)

another valuable contribution there bigfella  ::)

As valuable as yours but then again I'm not deluding myself that I have anything new to bring to the table.

that's a positive development, at least you know you are talking shite

Talking shite by openly admitting I have nothing new to contribute to the topic and pointing out that this has been discussed in depth in 2 other threads  ::) ::)

Keyboard Republicans, gotta love em :D  What day do you sign on or you too proud to take money from the Brits while you trying to unite Ireland on the GAABoard?

no bigfella i'm to busy paying tax to the Brits to fund the dolites that you seem to know a bit about

Obviously not too busy based on the amount of shite you posted debating by yourself on here today. Civil service I assume?

Anyway how you gonna free Ireland by paying tax which goes to the funding of the British war machine? At least if your on the dole you would be diverting resources away from them  ;)

By the way it's "too busy" and not "to busy". Typo?  :P
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 04:55:49 PM
Who said anything about "physically make". I think you need to open those eyes BM because you display gross naivety not to think that it is possible to "regiment the public mind every bit as much as an army regiments their bodies."

Has your political musings not considered that reality yet? Shocking!

I said physically because i would like to know how you dial a phone without physically doing it...

So we agree that I never mentioned anything about physically making anybody do anything yet you're asking me to explain what you've said in relation to physically making someone do something. I don't know what to say to that.  ???
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 05:25:51 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 05:17:01 PM
you identified the words snob and evidence yes but you still haven't shown the connection to me.

keyboard republicans eh, I am assuming you label every republican as a physical force one, in fact I'm certain of it as you can't differentiate between terms as stated earlier. This island as you put it has moved on, we follow a democratic path and I exercise my right to vote which is true to my beliefs so in that sense i am very active.

It's quite amusing also how you latch onto anyone else who posts something in mine or Nally's direction, hoping to try and drive the boot in as you aren't capable for a toe to toe debate on your own. To use one of your phrases - pathetic.

You assume wrong.

I do what exactly? Another poster used a phrase that I felt summed up my opinion of you and your colleague.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 05:29:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 04:55:49 PM
Who said anything about "physically make". I think you need to open those eyes BM because you display gross naivety not to think that it is possible to "regiment the public mind every bit as much as an army regiments their bodies."

Has your political musings not considered that reality yet? Shocking!

I said physically because i would like to know how you dial a phone without physically doing it...

So we agree that I never mentioned anything about physically making anybody do anything yet you're asking me to explain what you've said in relation to physically making someone do something. I don't know what to say to that.  ???

Skull, you obviously didn't go to Trinity if you don't know what to say to that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 05:40:11 PM
Well lets just say whilst thinking of how to respond to it in as constructive a way as I could, a sense of futility washed over me
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 05:47:57 PM
Constructive? On this thread? On the board? Don't be silly!  :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 16, 2010, 05:51:03 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 03:27:26 PM

Well the proof of recent change is on the side of the eventual re-unification. There is only one way this is going and what we will differ on is when this will happen. I expect it sooner rather than later. Apart from that it will eventually happen, both of us can only speculate
Where is your "proof"?

The last three elections clearly showed that support for Republican/Nationalist parties in NI has plateaued.

Moreover, SF's favourite psephologist, Prof. Brendan O'Leary, let the cat out of the bag when he disclosed that he didn't see that changing "in the foreseeable future" (though SF moved very fast to bury that observation, despite its being made ito an invited audience at one of their roadshows in the USA!).

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 03:27:26 PM... and the only other definite is that the economic climate will have to be 'right'.
Hmmm.

Rather reminds me of Tony Blair/New Labour's promise that the UK would enter the Eurozone just as soon as it met Gordon Brown/The Treasury's 5 key economic tests:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/five-tests-remain-key-to-euro-entry-says-brown-674922.html
I wonder whatever happened there, then.  ;)

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 03:27:26 PMYou being based in england or wherever – not on Ireland – obv just don't know.
So you feel restrained from commenting on anything outside of Ireland then?  ::)

Anyhow, NI, England, GB etc - it's all the same United Kingdom to me.

Still.  ;)

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 03:27:26 PM
I know a few companies that have gained tax breaks by putting in offices/development centres in the north of Ireland - initially Irish based companies –the IDA down here are working in conjunction with the ni board – invest ni or whatever appropriate board it is – I forget which.

I meant to point out citi as an example. They are one such company.
How it is doing it I am not quite sure - as to whatever the agreement is in conjunction with the IDA, but citi and a few more that I wont divulge have gone through this route and its financially attractive as otherwise - as I have been told- they wouldnt be going near the north of Ireland - not because they dont like it , its just because they would never have thought of going there !


The fact remains, I know of a few of these companies through IT and HR contacts who are finding it more or less impossible to get staff in the north of Ireland.
First hand info. you can write more lengthy responses – but like your last one, it doesn't actually contain any real argument.
Let's see if I've got this one straight, then.

You construct an argument on the basis of what (you assert to be) your "first hand experience" (above) - no facts, no sources, no proof etc.

Whilst I cite four specific, independent, authoritative links (post #299) to support my thesis.

Yet you claim that I am the one "without any real argument".  :o

You know, with the price of metals these days, you could melt down that brass neck of yours and pay off a sizeable chunk of the Potato Republic's Celtic Tiger's debt... :D

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 16, 2010, 07:05:19 PM
I see Trinity boy is doing working hard on showing he's not an oul know it all  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 16, 2010, 08:11:48 PM
Quote from: Sallylalala on November 16, 2010, 10:00:52 AM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on November 04, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
Mary Byrne & the young lad from west meath were wearing them on the xfactor. Shame on them

Mary Byrne has NEVER worn a poppy on the X Factor, check back her You Tube videos, she's never, ever worn one.  I've noticed that every week.  Louis Walsh certainly does, I don't know about the lad from West Meath. 

But Mary has definitely not worn one.
(http://www.remotepatrolled.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Mary-Byrne-sings-Could-It-Be-Magic-The-X-Factor--300x186.png)
Razor sharp.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2010, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 16, 2010, 05:51:03 PM
Whilst I cite four specific, independent, authoritative links (post #299) to support my thesis.


You know, with the price of metals these days, you could melt down that brass neck of yours and pay off a sizeable chunk of the Potato Republic's Celtic Tiger's debt... :D

four quotes - the taxation one irrelevent as it doesnt cover the joint IDA ni group initiative, the one about having a large workforce to tap into is laughable- esp in the face of dismal responses to advertised top notch ICT jobs

as ever your replies  are long but have no reality or fact in them !

I am laughing at your obv hatred of the 'Celtic tiger' and them horrible southerners having good jobs and money etc !! :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:28:19 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:28:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)

another valuable contribution there bigfella  ::)

As valuable as yours but then again I'm not deluding myself that I have anything new to bring to the table.

that's a positive development, at least you know you are talking shite

Talking shite by openly admitting I have nothing new to contribute to the topic and pointing out that this has been discussed in depth in 2 other threads  ::) ::)

Keyboard Republicans, gotta love em :D  What day do you sign on or you too proud to take money from the Brits while you trying to unite Ireland on the GAABoard?

no bigfella i'm to busy paying tax to the Brits to fund the dolites that you seem to know a bit about

Obviously not too busy based on the amount of shite you posted debating by yourself on here today. Civil service I assume?

Anyway how you gonna free Ireland by paying tax which goes to the funding of the British war machine? At least if your on the dole you would be diverting resources away from them  ;)

By the way it's "too busy" and not "to busy". Typo?  :P

No Skull not a typo, I out the wrong 'to' in, unlike you i admit when i get something wrong.

I repeat, i mentioned physically as you have to physically watch TV or phone in a vote, you said the media made them do it. So i would like you to explain how it is possible to vote or watch the programme without physically doing it. I wait with anticipation how much shite you write to get out of this
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 16, 2010, 08:31:19 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:28:19 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:28:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)

another valuable contribution there bigfella  ::)

As valuable as yours but then again I'm not deluding myself that I have anything new to bring to the table.

that's a positive development, at least you know you are talking shite

Talking shite by openly admitting I have nothing new to contribute to the topic and pointing out that this has been discussed in depth in 2 other threads  ::) ::)

Keyboard Republicans, gotta love em :D  What day do you sign on or you too proud to take money from the Brits while you trying to unite Ireland on the GAABoard?

no bigfella i'm to busy paying tax to the Brits to fund the dolites that you seem to know a bit about

Obviously not too busy based on the amount of shite you posted debating by yourself on here today. Civil service I assume?

Anyway how you gonna free Ireland by paying tax which goes to the funding of the British war machine? At least if your on the dole you would be diverting resources away from them  ;)

By the way it's "too busy" and not "to busy". Typo?  :P

No Skull not a typo, I out the wrong 'to' in, unlike you i admit when i get something wrong.

I repeat, i mentioned physically as you have to physically watch TV or phone in a vote, you said the media made them do it. So i would like you to explain how it is possible to vote or watch the programme without physically doing it. I wait with anticipation how much shite you write to get out of this
Was that a typo?
:P
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 05:25:51 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 05:17:01 PM
you identified the words snob and evidence yes but you still haven't shown the connection to me.

keyboard republicans eh, I am assuming you label every republican as a physical force one, in fact I'm certain of it as you can't differentiate between terms as stated earlier. This island as you put it has moved on, we follow a democratic path and I exercise my right to vote which is true to my beliefs so in that sense i am very active.

It's quite amusing also how you latch onto anyone else who posts something in mine or Nally's direction, hoping to try and drive the boot in as you aren't capable for a toe to toe debate on your own. To use one of your phrases - pathetic.

You assume wrong.

I do what exactly? Another poster used a phrase that I felt summed up my opinion of you and your colleague.

in other words you don't possess the necessary skills to fully articulate your point using your own limited vocabulary. Cute.

As for the colleague point i don't know nally or work with him so i would like you to explain that point (if you understand what i am asking)

your right though i shouldn't have assumed that, you couldn't tell the difference between physical force and constitutional
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 16, 2010, 08:31:19 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:28:19 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 04:28:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 16, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
This thread is a classic, cant believe i stayed away from it thinking it would be full of the usual politic bollix!

Hardly, is it not just rehashing the same old bollix from this time every year? Just this year we have a few new wannabes that are trying out do each other with their Republican credentials  :P

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=14261.0)

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9970.0)

another valuable contribution there bigfella  ::)

As valuable as yours but then again I'm not deluding myself that I have anything new to bring to the table.

that's a positive development, at least you know you are talking shite

Talking shite by openly admitting I have nothing new to contribute to the topic and pointing out that this has been discussed in depth in 2 other threads  ::) ::)

Keyboard Republicans, gotta love em :D  What day do you sign on or you too proud to take money from the Brits while you trying to unite Ireland on the GAABoard?

no bigfella i'm to busy paying tax to the Brits to fund the dolites that you seem to know a bit about

Obviously not too busy based on the amount of shite you posted debating by yourself on here today. Civil service I assume?

Anyway how you gonna free Ireland by paying tax which goes to the funding of the British war machine? At least if your on the dole you would be diverting resources away from them  ;)

By the way it's "too busy" and not "to busy". Typo?  :P

No Skull not a typo, I out the wrong 'to' in, unlike you i admit when i get something wrong.

I repeat, i mentioned physically as you have to physically watch TV or phone in a vote, you said the media made them do it. So i would like you to explain how it is possible to vote or watch the programme without physically doing it. I wait with anticipation how much shite you write to get out of this
Was that a typo?
:P

good catch maguire  :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 16, 2010, 08:38:55 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 05:25:51 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 05:17:01 PM
you identified the words snob and evidence yes but you still haven't shown the connection to me.

keyboard republicans eh, I am assuming you label every republican as a physical force one, in fact I'm certain of it as you can't differentiate between terms as stated earlier. This island as you put it has moved on, we follow a democratic path and I exercise my right to vote which is true to my beliefs so in that sense i am very active.

It's quite amusing also how you latch onto anyone else who posts something in mine or Nally's direction, hoping to try and drive the boot in as you aren't capable for a toe to toe debate on your own. To use one of your phrases - pathetic.

You assume wrong.

I do what exactly? Another poster used a phrase that I felt summed up my opinion of you and your colleague.

in other words you don't possess the necessary skills to fully articulate your point using your own limited vocabulary. Cute.

As for the colleague point i don't know nally or work with him so i would like you to explain that point (if you understand what i am asking)

your right though i shouldn't have assumed that, you couldn't tell the difference between physical force and constitutional
And that one?
:P
I'll stop now!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:48:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 16, 2010, 08:38:55 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 16, 2010, 05:25:51 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 05:17:01 PM
you identified the words snob and evidence yes but you still haven't shown the connection to me.

keyboard republicans eh, I am assuming you label every republican as a physical force one, in fact I'm certain of it as you can't differentiate between terms as stated earlier. This island as you put it has moved on, we follow a democratic path and I exercise my right to vote which is true to my beliefs so in that sense i am very active.

It's quite amusing also how you latch onto anyone else who posts something in mine or Nally's direction, hoping to try and drive the boot in as you aren't capable for a toe to toe debate on your own. To use one of your phrases - pathetic.

You assume wrong.

I do what exactly? Another poster used a phrase that I felt summed up my opinion of you and your colleague.

in other words you don't possess the necessary skills to fully articulate your point using your own limited vocabulary. Cute.

As for the colleague point i don't know nally or work with him so i would like you to explain that point (if you understand what i am asking)

your right though i shouldn't have assumed that, you couldn't tell the difference between physical force and constitutional
And that one?
:P
I'll stop now!

now you are being pedantic  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2010, 09:01:00 PM
Great topic for debate Orior :-)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 16, 2010, 09:03:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2010, 09:01:00 PM
Great topic for debate Orior :-)

Will someone please think of the children.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2010, 09:08:52 PM
yes, Santa will
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 16, 2010, 09:10:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2010, 09:01:00 PM
Great topic for debate Orior :-)
Ha ha was thinking that myself! It could go on until next November.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 10:44:32 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:28:19 PM
No Skull not a typo, I out the wrong 'to' in, unlike you i admit when i get something wrong.

I repeat, i mentioned physically as you have to physically watch TV or phone in a vote, you said the media made them do it. So i would like you to explain how it is possible to vote or watch the programme without physically doing it. I wait with anticipation how much shite you write to get out of this
Talking to the wrong person about typos btw

Do a wee google search on "manufactured consent" and see just how much shite has been written about it. I hope the wait was worth it and look forward to any conclusions you draw. Seriously exposing your naivety here BM.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 09:10:18 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 16, 2010, 10:44:32 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 16, 2010, 08:28:19 PM
No Skull not a typo, I out the wrong 'to' in, unlike you i admit when i get something wrong.

I repeat, i mentioned physically as you have to physically watch TV or phone in a vote, you said the media made them do it. So i would like you to explain how it is possible to vote or watch the programme without physically doing it. I wait with anticipation how much shite you write to get out of this
Talking to the wrong person about typos btw

Do a wee google search on "manufactured consent" and see just how much shite has been written about it. I hope the wait was worth it and look forward to any conclusions you draw. Seriously exposing your naivety here BM.

right so you are choosing to ignore my point and want me to go and research your argument, your good craic  ::)

btw i was just thinking, how would you even know i posted on the x factor thread when it such a shite and manufactured project, surely you couldn't bring yourself to even look at the thread. A better question is why where you monitoring what other people were writing about. Talk about double standards.

hows that singing coming along anyway? you going to go for it again next year? Or is it still to raw, I would vote for you but I would have to physically lift my arm to do that an I don't think the media has a big enough control over me yet  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 17, 2010, 09:48:23 AM
 :-\
Read this slowly BM. It might help

You said "you have to physically watch TV or phone in a vote", and I said (using your words) "the media made them do i"t. In reply I asked you to do some reading up on "manufacturing consent" to understand what I mean't by my comments from the outset (before you mis-interpreted what I said). No ignoring of points. Now come back to me when you've done some research on the topic and tell me then that I'm talking out of my hole and hopefully you could also elaborate on why me being aware/interested in the enslaving of large swathes of populations to think a certain way somehow displays double standards.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 09:54:19 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 17, 2010, 09:48:23 AM
:-\
Read this slowly BM. It might help

You said "you have to physically watch TV or phone in a vote", and I said (using your words) "the media made them do i"t. In reply I asked you to do some reading up on "manufacturing consent" to understand what I mean't by my comments from the outset (before you mis-interpreted what I said). No ignoring of points. Now come back to me when you've done some research on the topic and tell me then that I'm talking out of my hole and hopefully you could also elaborate on why me being aware/interested in the enslaving of large swathes of populations to think a certain way somehow displays double standards.

you said the media made them do it. We're agreed on that, in order to do it you have to physically do it, i fail to understand how you can't grasp this concept. I won't be researching your argument, then I would be debating with myself (although given your lack of understanding it's becoming increasingly apparent that is exactly what is happening).

Double standards is how you hate the show, you hate the people who watch it, you think they should not have a vote ffs and yet you are the first boy on the x factor thread reading what 'these mindless masses' are saying. Are you for real  :D

you're boring me now  :-*
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 17, 2010, 10:48:22 AM
Boredom has set in on both sides. If you can't or don't want to understand how structured media messages can incentivise large groups of the population to physically "do stuff" like pick up a phone to support a celeb, vote for certain parties in elections, join the army, buy an iphone etc etc etc , then I really am wasting my time. This has become remedial. Good luck
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 11:03:21 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 17, 2010, 10:48:22 AM
Boredom has set in on both sides. If you can't or don't want to understand how structured media messages can incentivise large groups of the population to physically "do stuff" like pick up a phone to support a celeb, vote for certain parties in elections, join the army, buy an iphone etc etc etc , then I really am wasting my time. This has become remedial. Good luck

right something has finally got through to you then  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:37:01 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 16, 2010, 07:05:19 PM
I see Trinity boy is doing working hard on showing he's not an oul know it all  :D

Hilarious I'm sure.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.

you are ridiculing us because you perceive us to have republican outlooks. Are you saying you aren't nationalist/post nationalist then gallsman?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.

you are ridiculing us because you perceive us to have republican outlooks. Are you saying you aren't nationalist/post nationalist then gallsman?

No I'm ridiculing you because I see you as someone who, as stated earlier, fits the description of a "keyboard republican".

Also, I'm still waiting to know what insight you have into the minds of people south of the border.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 01:36:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.

you are ridiculing us because you perceive us to have republican outlooks. Are you saying you aren't nationalist/post nationalist then gallsman?

No I'm ridiculing you because I see you as someone who, as stated earlier, fits the description of a "keyboard republican".

Also, I'm still waiting to know what insight you have into the minds of people south of the border.

I'm still waiting on you illustrating where i attributed points on evidence and snobbery to you ya gonch

plus i have already batted that one on keyboard republican out of the park, if you will recall it was where you couldn't differentiate between constitutional and physical force, anything else?

just for the record i have insight to the minds through people i know who live in the south funnily enough, none of your trinity crowd either thankfully
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 01:36:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.

you are ridiculing us because you perceive us to have republican outlooks. Are you saying you aren't nationalist/post nationalist then gallsman?

No I'm ridiculing you because I see you as someone who, as stated earlier, fits the description of a "keyboard republican".

Also, I'm still waiting to know what insight you have into the minds of people south of the border.

I'm still waiting on you illustrating where i attributed points on evidence and snobbery to you ya gonch

plus i have already batted that one on keyboard republican out of the park, if you will recall it was where you couldn't differentiate between constitutional and physical force, anything else?

just for the record i have insight to the minds through people i know who live in the south funnily enough, none of your trinity crowd either thankfully

Wow! You know people in the south??? What size sample is that? You do know about representative sampling I suppose, do you?

You batted it out of the park, did you?? Constitutional or physical force is irrelevant - you and your ilk are a disgrace to both.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 17, 2010, 01:57:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 01:36:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.

you are ridiculing us because you perceive us to have republican outlooks. Are you saying you aren't nationalist/post nationalist then gallsman?

No I'm ridiculing you because I see you as someone who, as stated earlier, fits the description of a "keyboard republican".

Also, I'm still waiting to know what insight you have into the minds of people south of the border.

I'm still waiting on you illustrating where i attributed points on evidence and snobbery to you ya gonch

plus i have already batted that one on keyboard republican out of the park, if you will recall it was where you couldn't differentiate between constitutional and physical force, anything else?

just for the record i have insight to the minds through people i know who live in the south funnily enough, none of your trinity crowd either thankfully

Wow! You know people in the south??? What size sample is that? You do know about representative sampling I suppose, do you?

You batted it out of the park, did you?? Constitutional or physical force is irrelevant - you and your ilk are a disgrace to both.

I've been stuck in the middle of many's a childish argument but this is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 02:04:28 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 01:36:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on November 17, 2010, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.

you are ridiculing us because you perceive us to have republican outlooks. Are you saying you aren't nationalist/post nationalist then gallsman?

No I'm ridiculing you because I see you as someone who, as stated earlier, fits the description of a "keyboard republican".

Also, I'm still waiting to know what insight you have into the minds of people south of the border.

I'm still waiting on you illustrating where i attributed points on evidence and snobbery to you ya gonch

plus i have already batted that one on keyboard republican out of the park, if you will recall it was where you couldn't differentiate between constitutional and physical force, anything else?

just for the record i have insight to the minds through people i know who live in the south funnily enough, none of your trinity crowd either thankfully

Wow! You know people in the south??? What size sample is that? You do know about representative sampling I suppose, do you?

You batted it out of the park, did you?? Constitutional or physical force is irrelevant - you and your ilk are a disgrace to both.

didn't take you to long until you resorted to personal abuse. You have moved away from debate (actually i don't think you ever started) however it is quite clear the poison is seeping out of you and you can no longer engage in a meaningful discussion

yes i did as already stated, not only can you no longer think for yourself you have resorted to the tactics of an infant in repeating what the other person is saying

oh and you need to wash that dummy before you put it back in your mouth, it might be infected after you spat it out and it hit the floor  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 17, 2010, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.
I know you think you are ridiculing bananaman and myself, but that wasn't what I asked. So I'll ask my two questions again, in the hope of an answer to them the second time around.

Going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, so if I'm a "keyboard republican", what does that make you? A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2010, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.
I know you think you are ridiculing bananaman and myself, but that wasn't what I asked. So I'll ask my two questions again, in the hope of an answer to them the second time around.

Going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, so if I'm a "keyboard republican", what does that make you? A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours?


But your question is completely irrelevant - my posts tend to examine both sides of an arguement. You post exclusively about your own opinions and attempt to shout down anyone who disagees with you. For example, you insist on referring to the SDLP and its supporters as "stoops". You don't catch me refferring to Sinn Fein as "murdering, sectarian, paedophile-hiding bastards," do you?

I'm not a keyboard anything - I don't tend to wear my politics on my sleeve on an anonymous internet forum.

Quote from: Franko on November 17, 2010, 01:57:06 PM
I've been stuck in the middle of many's a childish argument but this is getting ridiculous.

I know but apparently myself, Nally and Banana Man are each as stubborn as the other.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 17, 2010, 04:04:04 PM
It's a bit of a stretch to murdering whatever from stoops. I don't know what age you are Gallsman but you don't seem to have an understanding of where the NI state came from or the issues faced by Nationalists, Catholics and Republicans up to the late 1980's early 1990's. I wonder reading your posts are you just winding people up? Your revisionist posts over simply the whole NI question just as much as some of the posts from those you ridicule. Bottomline is the political situation here is not as simple as Margaret Ritchie and her poppy would have you believe, neither is it as clear cut as some republican posters believe. Our enconomy is every bit as dependant on that of the ROI as it is on the UK subvention. It is much more complicated than that but I don't have the time or inclination to go into the detail. To go back to the issue of the poppy and it's symbolism and the whole NI question and where the SDLP are leading us by extension, read Nuala O'Connor's article in yesterdays Irish News.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 17, 2010, 04:13:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2010, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.
I know you think you are ridiculing bananaman and myself, but that wasn't what I asked. So I'll ask my two questions again, in the hope of an answer to them the second time around.

Going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, so if I'm a "keyboard republican", what does that make you? A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours?


But your question is completely irrelevant - my posts tend to examine both sides of an arguement. You post exclusively about your own opinions and attempt to shout down anyone who disagees with you. For example, you insist on referring to the SDLP and its supporters as "stoops". You don't catch me refferring to Sinn Fein as "murdering, sectarian, paedophile-hiding b**tards," do you?

I'm not a keyboard anything - I don't tend to wear my politics on my sleeve on an anonymous internet forum.

I have several times indicated things is disagree with SF on. I make no apologies for still being a supporter, and I CERTAINLY make no apologies for being a republican. Since when does being a republican exclude you from the right to discuss things on this board?
You still don't answer my question anyway Gallsman. You may think it is irrelevant but it is still is a question. If I am a "keyboard republican", are you then by extension, since you put up more posts than me, a "keyboard post-nationalist" or a "keyboard anti-republican"? Or is it only if you are a republican, do you have bestowed upon you the prefix of "keyboard..."?

P.s. You have very grandiose ideas about your posts. You resort to petty snipes and personal abuse and "ridiculing" more than anything. Not the most grown up if you ask me. If you have an issue with something I post, then discuss it with me without the use of  supposed insults like "you're a keyboard republican" or "you're an embarrassment" or "you complete imbecile" or "you are incapable narrow minded fools". You were discussing something with Bananaman which I was not involved with in the slightest yet in your reply to him, you still felt the need to use personal abuse about me, Gallsman. So you can maintain all the grand ideas about your balanced posts all you want. You are just exposing yourself as 110% anti-republican (which of course is your right, but don't start spouting about looking at both sides of an argument).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 04:33:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 17, 2010, 04:04:04 PM
1) It's a bit of a stretch to murdering whatever from stoops. 2) I don't know what age you are Gallsman but you don't seem to have an understanding of where the NI state came from or the issues faced by Nationalists, Catholics and Republicans up to the late 1980's early 1990's. I wonder reading your posts are you just winding people up? 3) Your revisionist posts over simply the whole NI question just as much as some of the posts from those you ridicule. Bottomline is the political situation here is not as simple as Margaret Ritchie and her poppy would have you believe, neither is it as clear cut as some republican posters believe. Our enconomy is every bit as dependant on that of the ROI as it is on the UK subvention. It is much more complicated than that but I don't have the time or inclination to go into the detail. 4) To go back to the issue of the poppy and it's symbolism and the whole NI question and where the SDLP are leading us by extension, read Nuala O'Connor's article in yesterdays Irish News.

1) Principle is principle. The point I was making is that Nally feels the need to constantly refer to the SDLP in what he and others no doubt feel is a hilariously insulting manner. I don't when it comes to any political party. Except maybe Eirigi or the BNP.

2) I'm 23 and perfectly aware of the history of this island. Further questions?

3) Revisionist posts? Where? What have I revised anywhere? I don't attempt to deny ANY attrocity committed, whether political, social or military on either the British side or "our" side. Nor do I attempt to pander to any particular entity or party

4) I don't read the Irish News, don't have a subscription and struggle to come by it in Dublin (not that I try that hard) - perhaps you could post it for me.

What the f**k the poppy and the "Northern Ireland question" have to do with each other is beyond me. Wearing the poppy is a personal choice that someone makes for personal reasons.

You appear to think that I'm a supporter of both the SDLP and Margaret Ritchie - I'm neither. I'll just speak up when I think someone is waffling away.

Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2010, 04:13:56 PM
You are just exposing yourself as 110% anti-republican (which of course is your right, but don't start spouting about looking at both sides of an argument).

How am I doing that? By disagreeing with you?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 17, 2010, 05:11:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 04:33:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 17, 2010, 04:04:04 PM
1) It's a bit of a stretch to murdering whatever from stoops. 2) I don't know what age you are Gallsman but you don't seem to have an understanding of where the NI state came from or the issues faced by Nationalists, Catholics and Republicans up to the late 1980's early 1990's. I wonder reading your posts are you just winding people up? 3) Your revisionist posts over simply the whole NI question just as much as some of the posts from those you ridicule. Bottomline is the political situation here is not as simple as Margaret Ritchie and her poppy would have you believe, neither is it as clear cut as some republican posters believe. Our enconomy is every bit as dependant on that of the ROI as it is on the UK subvention. It is much more complicated than that but I don't have the time or inclination to go into the detail. 4) To go back to the issue of the poppy and it's symbolism and the whole NI question and where the SDLP are leading us by extension, read Nuala O'Connor's article in yesterdays Irish News.

1) Principle is principle. The point I was making is that Nally feels the need to constantly refer to the SDLP in what he and others no doubt feel is a hilariously insulting manner. I don't when it comes to any political party. Except maybe Eirigi or the BNP.

2) I'm 23 and perfectly aware of the history of this island. Further questions?

3) Revisionist posts? Where? What have I revised anywhere? I don't attempt to deny ANY attrocity committed, whether political, social or military on either the British side or "our" side. Nor do I attempt to pander to any particular entity or party

4) I don't read the Irish News, don't have a subscription and struggle to come by it in Dublin (not that I try that hard) - perhaps you could post it for me.

What the f**k the poppy and the "Northern Ireland question" have to do with each other is beyond me. Wearing the poppy is a personal choice that someone makes for personal reasons.

You appear to think that I'm a supporter of both the SDLP and Margaret Ritchie - I'm neither. I'll just speak up when I think someone is waffling away.

Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2010, 04:13:56 PM
You are just exposing yourself as 110% anti-republican (which of course is your right, but don't start spouting about looking at both sides of an argument).

How am I doing that? By disagreeing with you?

!!!  ???
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dec on November 17, 2010, 07:18:30 PM
Airdrie put a picture of some soldiers on the front of their match program for Poppy Day.

(http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/dailyrecord3/nov2010/6/1/airdrie-united-poppy-day-match-programme-featuring-german-soldiers-image-2-332054408.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 17, 2010, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: dec on November 17, 2010, 07:18:30 PM
Airdrie put a picture of some soldiers on the front of their match program for Poppy Day.

(http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/dailyrecord3/nov2010/6/1/airdrie-united-poppy-day-match-programme-featuring-german-soldiers-image-2-332054408.jpg)

Aren't those German soldiers.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 17, 2010, 07:42:15 PM
Still see them being worn in England, wish they would get over it.

(http://images6.cpcache.com/product/413418026v1_480x480_Front.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: spanner on November 17, 2010, 09:10:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2010, 04:13:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 17, 2010, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 16, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
Gallsman, i see you are now into ridiculing those who dare to have a republican outlook on a message board. Is that the new level to stoop to? Well going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, what does that make you, if I'm a "keyboard republican"?

A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours? Bit snobby that.

No, I'm specifically ridiculing you and Banana Man. Not that hard to figure out really.
I know you think you are ridiculing bananaman and myself, but that wasn't what I asked. So I'll ask my two questions again, in the hope of an answer to them the second time around.

Going by your profile, you have put up more posts than I have, and post per day average is higher than mine, so if I'm a "keyboard republican", what does that make you? A keyboard post-nationalist?

Or is they "keyboard" prefix only necessary when attempting to ridicule people for not having similar political opinions to yours?


But your question is completely irrelevant - my posts tend to examine both sides of an arguement. You post exclusively about your own opinions and attempt to shout down anyone who disagees with you. For example, you insist on referring to the SDLP and its supporters as "stoops". You don't catch me refferring to Sinn Fein as "murdering, sectarian, paedophile-hiding b**tards," do you?

I'm not a keyboard anything - I don't tend to wear my politics on my sleeve on an anonymous internet forum.

I have several times indicated things is disagree with SF on. I make no apologies for still being a supporter, and I CERTAINLY make no apologies for being a republican. Since when does being a republican exclude you from the right to discuss things on this board?
You still don't answer my question anyway Gallsman. You may think it is irrelevant but it is still is a question. If I am a "keyboard republican", are you then by extension, since you put up more posts than me, a "keyboard post-nationalist" or a "keyboard anti-republican"? Or is it only if you are a republican, do you have bestowed upon you the prefix of "keyboard..."?

P.s. You have very grandiose ideas about your posts. You resort to petty snipes and personal abuse and "ridiculing" more than anything. Not the most grown up if you ask me. If you have an issue with something I post, then discuss it with me without the use of  supposed insults like "you're a keyboard republican" or "you're an embarrassment" or "you complete imbecile" or "you are incapable narrow minded fools". You were discussing something with Bananaman which I was not involved with in the slightest yet in your reply to him, you still felt the need to use personal abuse about me, Gallsman. So you can maintain all the grand ideas about your balanced posts all you want. You are just exposing yourself as 110% anti-republican (which of course is your right, but don't start spouting about looking at both sides of an argument).


Jeez!.  Ye tuk that bad!

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on November 17, 2010, 10:44:02 PM
Saw a few Peelers today with them still on. Some just love the look - perhaps, a political message taken a bit too far!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2010, 10:46:18 PM
Doing that just to wind up the posters on the Gaa board. No doubt logging on to see if they get a reaction......... ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on November 17, 2010, 11:17:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2010, 10:46:18 PM
Doing that just to wind up the posters on the Gaa board. No doubt logging on to see if they get a reaction......... ;)

That wound u up anyway.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: caughtredhanded on November 17, 2010, 11:27:25 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 17, 2010, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: dec on November 17, 2010, 07:18:30 PM
Airdrie put a picture of some soldiers on the front of their match program for Poppy Day.

(http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/dailyrecord3/nov2010/6/1/airdrie-united-poppy-day-match-programme-featuring-german-soldiers-image-2-332054408.jpg)

Aren't those German soldiers.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Yes they are! Heard about this yesterday, major red faces in Airdrie.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 18, 2010, 11:44:43 PM
Was in a long queue in the bank today (in London) and noticed the guy in front of me still had a Poppy in his lapel.

A few minutes later, someone at one of the tellers' window completed his business and turned to leave. On his way out, he noticed the guy in front of me, whom he knew, and greeted him warmly - something along the lines of "Good to see ya, will you be around at the weekend etc"

Despite being Irish (from the accent, somewhere about the Midlands?), this second guy didn't seem to mind/notice that his friend was wearing a Poppy - fair enough, live and let live and all that.

But when the Poppy-wearer's answer revealed that he, too, was a 'Free Stater', I thought of this thread and grinned.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ONeill on November 18, 2010, 11:54:38 PM
Those who are offended by a poppy choose to be so. I couldn't give a dicky if they were a green kite for the memory of Japanese miners.

People should be free to display, be it on them or otherwise, symbols of anything they believe in. This 'beating it up ye' argument only exists if you are a wee bit sensitive.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Puckoon on November 18, 2010, 11:55:28 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 18, 2010, 11:54:38 PM
Those who are offended by a poppy choose to be so. I couldn't give a dicky if they were a green kite for the memory of Japanese miners.

People should be free to display, be it on them or otherwise, symbols of anything they believe in. This 'beating it up ye' argument only exists if you are a wee bit sensitive.

117.5% nail on the head.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 19, 2010, 12:36:27 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 18, 2010, 11:55:28 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 18, 2010, 11:54:38 PM
Those who are offended by a poppy choose to be so. I couldn't give a dicky if they were a green kite for the memory of Japanese miners.

People should be free to display, be it on them or otherwise, symbols of anything they believe in. This 'beating it up ye' argument only exists if you are a wee bit sensitive.

117.5% nail on the head.

Ye feckin IMF feckers are everywhere.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: saffron sam2 on November 19, 2010, 08:45:48 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 18, 2010, 11:54:38 PM
Those who are offended by a poppy choose to be so. I couldn't give a dicky if they were a green kite for the memory of Japanese miners.

People should be free to display, be it on them or otherwise, symbols of anything they believe in. This 'beating it up ye' argument only exists if you are a wee bit sensitive.

Fair point, but I think the main issue on this thread is that, in many cases, people aren't free to choose whether or not to wear a poppy and that the motives of those who choose not to are questioned.

Now, I know that the poppy is banned in the place where you work. However, if it was policy in your corganisation that each employee must wear the poppy from the launch of the appeal until Remembrance Sunday, how would you feel?

It is poppy fascism / nazism, not the poppy itself that is the main issue.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 19, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 19, 2010, 08:45:48 AM
I think the main issue on this thread is that, in many cases, people aren't free to choose whether or not to wear a poppy and that the motives of those who choose not to are questioned.
No doubt that is the main issue for you, but you are choosing only to see, or give full creedence to, one side of the debate.

You state that "in many cases" people aren't free not to wear a Poppy. How many cases can you point to? The only example I have yet heard is the BBC, yet I know for a fact that eg Mark Sidebottom appeared without one on at least one occasion during the recent Appeal period (I saw it myself).

As for questioning of the motives of people who don't wear one, can you point to any examples where people are being asked "Why aren't you wearing a Poppy?"

By contrast, I could point to examples where people do feel intimidated for wearing one, eg, at Quinn's Insurance in Enniskillen:

QUINN Insurance has defended their equality policies in the wake of criticism from a number of Protestant workers over the wearing of poppies.

Several employees have told this newspaper how they feel their life "wouldn't be worth living" if they wore a poppy into the Enniskillen office. However a spokesman for the firm stated it was acceptable for people wear emblems such as poppies at the appropriate time of year.
But one employee said, "You feel as if putting on a poppy is you putting on a sectarian badge. I have to take my poppy off before I go into work in case someone says anything to me -- I'm too scared to wear it," said one Protestant worker.
Another employee claimed he was advised to remove his poppy inside the building because "loads of people" would "take offence" to it.
"I think it's a sad world when you feel so uncomfortable about wearing a poppy that you take it off -- especially here in Enniskillen, especially after what happened in 1987. It's extremely important to remember the dead but if it's going to get you into trouble then it's not worth it," he said.
While another added: "I know things have been said to people in the past who have had one on. Things like: 'Why are you wearing that?' and 'That's offensive' and so on. There is a concern at the moment that wearing a poppy might hinder your career further down the line. I've been told that it wouldn't be beneficial wearing one so I don't and I hate myself for that," he said.
One employee talked about "much unease" in Quinn Insurance which he said is making all of the Protestants feel "very uncomfortable" at the moment.

http://www.impartialreporter.com/news/roundup/articles/2010/11/12/392550-poppies-divide-workforce-at-quinn-insurance/

Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 19, 2010, 08:45:48 AMNow, I know that the poppy is banned in the place where you work.
Do you think that is fair and reasonable? If so, why is it any more fair and reasonable to prevent people from wearing one than making them wear one?

In both cases, people are being made to behave against their will, over a matter which is not a matter of law, but one of freedom of personal expression.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 19, 2010, 08:45:48 AMHowever, if it was policy in your corganisation that each employee must wear the poppy from the launch of the appeal until Remembrance Sunday, how would you feel?
Speaking for myself, I would object to any such policy being imposed.

But be honest, that is a Straw Man argument, for with the possible exception of the BBC, there is no organisation anywhere in the UK which insists on its employees wearing a poppy.

Whereas there are examples, albeit isolated, where it is either offically banned or unofficially frowned upon.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 19, 2010, 08:45:48 AMIt is poppy fascism / nazism, not the poppy itself that is the main issue.
That is your opinion.

Imo, being forced to wear a Poppy is merely a symptom of the "disease", not the disease itself. That is, I might just as plausibly argue that the banning of the Poppy is the "main issue" (though I do not).

Rather, the main issue is/should be that of tolerance. On which point, I believe that people should be free to wear, or not wear, the Poppy entirely as they see fit. And whichever their choice, they should face neither censure nor preferment, either directly or indirectly.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 19, 2010, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 19, 2010, 01:32:06 PMNo doubt that is the main issue for you, but you are choosing only to see, or give full creedence to, one side of the debate.

I see what you're doing here - seeking to put Clearwater between yourself and Saffron Sam. Don't be surprised if there's a Revival of his argument, though.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 19, 2010, 02:13:15 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 19, 2010, 02:08:10 PM
I see what you're doing here - seeking to put Clearwater between yourself and Saffron Sam. Don't be surprised if there's a Revival of his argument, though.
But do you see a bad moon arising? Trouble on the way, perhaps?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 19, 2010, 02:17:52 PM
I'm sayin nuttin.

But don't go around tonight.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: saffron sam2 on November 19, 2010, 02:57:31 PM
I wish you would stop lookin' for a reason to pick fights with me.

Quote from: Evil Genius on November 19, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 19, 2010, 08:45:48 AM
I think the main issue on this thread is that, in many cases, people aren't free to choose whether or not to wear a poppy and that the motives of those who choose not to are questioned.
No doubt that is the main issue for you, but you are choosing only to see, or give full creedence to, one side of the debate.

I accept that both sides of the argument have equal credence. However when the employer is someone like the BBC, then the profile of one side of debate is obviously increased. If the BBC banned the poppy, that would be as equally wrong as their current stance.

Quote from: Evil Genius on November 19, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
You state that "in many cases" people aren't free not to wear a Poppy. How many cases can you point to? The only example I have yet heard is the BBC, yet I know for a fact that eg Mark Sidebottom appeared without one on at least one occasion during the recent Appeal period (I saw it myself).

It is also an issue in independent television companies, particularly in Britain, although over here UTV do not make it compulsory.

With regards to Mark Sidebotton, if you are referring to last Saturday evening's appearance (13th November), that fell outside the range of dates which the BBC issues as "guidelines" for wearing the poppy (24th Oct to 11th Nov).

Quote from: Evil Genius on November 19, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 19, 2010, 08:45:48 AMNow, I know that the poppy is banned in the place where you work.
Do you think that is fair and reasonable? If so, why is it any more fair and reasonable to prevent people from wearing one than making them wear one?

No, totally unfair and unreasonable. However, I am told these are only actually guidelines and just because ONeill hasn't actually seen anyone wearing a poppy, this doesn't mean they are banned.

Quote from: Evil Genius on November 19, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
But be honest, that is a Straw Man argument, for with the possible exception of the BBC, there is no organisation anywhere in the UK which insists on its employees wearing a poppy.

Whereas there are examples, albeit isolated, where it is either offically banned or unofficially frowned upon.

I think it is fair to assume that no organisation will put either policy in writing (the BBC claims it the individual presenter's choice). I have also given  examples of organisations where such a "policy" exists. From where I'm looking the attempts to demonise those not wearing one, or force one to wear one far outweigh any demonisation of those who choose to wear one. I accept your opinion and experiences will differ.

Quote from: Evil Genius on November 19, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
Rather, the main issue is/should be that of tolerance. On which point, I believe that people should be free to wear, or not wear, the Poppy entirely as they see fit. And whichever their choice, they should face neither censure nor preferment, either directly or indirectly.

Exactly, yet that is clearly beyond, for example, those who run the BBC. Someday that may happen, but unfortunately someday never comes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 19, 2010, 04:36:33 PM
Wouldn't it be great if everyone understood that people from different back grounds interpret/think of things differently

Off the top of my head, here are the different types of folk who I think wear a poppy

Those who wear the poppy as a mark of respect to those who died in WWI & WWII and don't wish them wearing a poppy to be interpreted wrongly. It's no big deal
Those who wear the poppy as a mark of respect to those who died in all miltary conflicts (including here and abroad) and don't wish them wearing a poppy to be interpreted wrongly. They understand there were wrongs on both sides in this conflict and beyond but wish to mark this period of remembrance.
Those who wear the poppy as a mark of respect to those who died in all miltary conflicts (including here and abroad) but also like the whole pissing on a lampost element of this form of remembrance
Those who wear the poppy to show everybody where their allegiance lies and don't give much thought to what it is really meant to represent.
Those who could take it or leave wearing a poppy but do so so as not to be ostricised for not doing so within their communities/places of emplyment.

The BBC and papers like to think and present that poppy wearing is all about the first two points listed, but certainly in this part of the world it's just not the complete truth.

Personally I couldn't give a toss as I refuse to go out of my way to get offended at these sort of things. Do the same and very soon you'll hardly notice them
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 08:31:12 PM
Cant believe it The young lad from One Direction and May Byrne singing in front of the British Army, will this ever end!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: An Gaeilgoir on November 21, 2010, 08:38:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 08:31:12 PM
Cant believe it The young lad from One Direction and May Byrne singing in front of the British Army, will this ever end!!

is there anything of importance in your life, this upsets you???????? ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 08:44:38 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 21, 2010, 08:38:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 08:31:12 PM
Cant believe it The young lad from One Direction and May Byrne singing in front of the British Army, will this ever end!!

is there anything of importance in your life, this upsets you???????? ::)

I'm taking the piss to the many posts that have went on beforehand An Gaeilgoir
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 21, 2010, 08:55:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 08:31:12 PM
Cant believe it The young lad from One Direction and May Byrne singing in front of the British Army, will this ever end!!

I'm outraged too. Didn't they endure enough in Afghanistan?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: An Gaeilgoir on November 21, 2010, 08:56:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 08:44:38 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 21, 2010, 08:38:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 08:31:12 PM
Cant believe it The young lad from One Direction and May Byrne singing in front of the British Army, will this ever end!!

is there anything of importance in your life, this upsets you???????? ::)

I'm taking the piss to the many posts that have went on beforehand An Gaeilgoir

Missed that one, will go and stand in the corner now. :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2010, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 21, 2010, 08:55:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 08:31:12 PM
Cant believe it The young lad from One Direction and May Byrne singing in front of the British Army, will this ever end!!

I'm outraged too. Didn't they endure enough in Afghanistan?

Very good.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 21, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
Even worse, the young Irish lad in 1 direction had to wear an England jersey and meet stephen gerrard.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 21, 2010, 10:45:31 PM
While I do my best to avoid X-Factor, much more offensive to the senses than the Poppy, I do feel Britain is turning much like the USA in its attempts to shift the focus of the masses.

Where the troops are now sacrosanct and their suffering has become a vehicle for propaganda for the illegal war. I find it strange that there seems to be no mention of the fact that they really shouldn't be in Afghanistan in the first place. Its always about these "poor brave soldiers", how does it get lost that their suffering is totally unnecessary as is, that of the people of Afghanistan.




Whatever about the horror inflicted on those involved in the war, the butchery carried out on David Bowies 'Heroes' was probably the most vile thing about the whole episode. Stop the X-Factors illegal war on music now.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 21, 2010, 10:47:30 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 21, 2010, 10:45:31 PM
While I do my best to avoid X-Factor, much more offensive to the senses than the Poppy, I do feel Britain is turning much like the USA in its attempts to shift the focus of the masses.

Where the troops are now sacrosanct and their suffering has become a vehicle for propaganda for the illegal war. I find it strange that there seems to be no mention of the fact that they really shouldn't be in Afghanistan in the first place. Its always about these "poor brave soldiers", how does it get lost that their suffering is totally unnecessary as is, that of the people of Afghanistan.




Whatever about the horror inflicted on those involved in the war, the butchery carried out on David Bowies 'Heroes' was probably the most vile thing about the whole episode. Stop the X-Factors illegal war on music now.
It was horrendous
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 11:02:22 PM
The 'war' in Afghanistan and Iraq is wrong we all know that, no justification at all in my view.

the Politicians are the ones who should be personally notifying the families of these young men who are out fighting a war if they are injured or killed. Its senseless and will as they have always done prove fruitless.

For me i don't personally blame the British army, its the political parties that send these men out to a country that does not want them there. It will continue as long as the voters vote them in.

Do we hate every army or country that are in these countries of conflict?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 21, 2010, 11:03:25 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 21, 2010, 10:45:31 PM
While I do my best to avoid X-Factor, much more offensive to the senses than the Poppy, I do feel Britain is turning much like the USA in its attempts to shift the focus of the masses.

Where the troops are now sacrosanct and their suffering has become a vehicle for propaganda for the illegal war. I find it strange that there seems to be no mention of the fact that they really shouldn't be in Afghanistan in the first place. Its always about these "poor brave soldiers", how does it get lost that their suffering is totally unnecessary as is, that of the people of Afghanistan.




Whatever about the horror inflicted on those involved in the war, the butchery carried out on David Bowies 'Heroes' was probably the most vile thing about the whole episode. Stop the X-Factors illegal war on music now.

I've heard commentators say that the poppy should remind us all of the horror of the two world wars, and stop it happening again.

Yet, the british have marched off to war against (among others) Argentina, Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 21, 2010, 11:09:11 PM
But no one voted in favour of the war, no one wanted it.


In case anyone STILL thinks they are out there protecting the 'West' from terrorism:

http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/afghanistan-a-war-for-gas-and-oil-pipelines-2/
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 11:16:19 PM
No one believes they are protecting the West from terrorism.

If the British public were given the chance to vote for the war in Iraq or Afghanistan then i believe they would be home now.

What countries are the Irish army in at the minute?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 21, 2010, 11:23:23 PM
Interestingly enough this was in the paper;

QuoteIrish troops preparing for their role in the new year in the EU Nordic battlegroup are currently being put through their paces in an intensive training exercise in Sweden.

The aim of the exercise, codenamed Joint Action 2010, is to test the battlegroup's operational capability in the event of a deployment during the first half of next year.

The Defence Forces are contributing 153 personnel to the battlegroup and they will be joined by troops from Sweden, Estonia, Norway and Finland.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/irish-troops-on-exercises-in-sweden-2427225.html

And the new British-French military co-op on the go as well, is that old European Army thing that was a hot topic around the Lisbon treaty in the pipe-line. Probably not but a nice bit of fodder for the Euro-sceptics.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 21, 2010, 11:30:00 PM
Lets be honest here the british public are more interested in voting on the Xf****r

Bill Hicks had this all worked out. Here he is talking about the John F. Kennedy assassination

Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their f**king skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do as we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!

Another relevant sketch of his also on the first iraq war
You know we armed Iraq. I wondered about that too, you know. During the Persian Gulf war, those intelligence reports would come out: "Iraq: incredible weapons – incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Uh, well ... we looked at the receipts. But as soon as that check clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine. We're going in for God and country and democracy and here's a fetus and he's a Hitler. Whatever you f**king need, let's go. Get motivated behind this, let's go!"

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 21, 2010, 11:31:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2010, 11:16:19 PM
If the British public were given the chance to vote for the war in Iraq or Afghanistan then i believe they would be home now.

And that fact alone makes me more wary of the whole attention the suffering of the soldiers is getting. The media focus, especially using something like X-Factor which has a huge grip on the public's attention has shifted away from the war and more on "Get Behind Our Boys".

I remember last year during the poppy-fest was on the go and Gordon Brown and all the others putting wreaths down and looking all solemn and talking about sacrifice and it stink of shite then as it's starting to become unbearable now.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on October 25, 2011, 08:46:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)

Scotland beat everyone to it, McCoist had one on at the weekend
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on October 25, 2011, 08:48:45 PM
I saw someone wearing one almost two weeks ago.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on October 25, 2011, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 25, 2011, 08:48:45 PM
I saw someone wearing one almost two weeks ago.

Margaret Ritchie?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 25, 2011, 08:57:00 PM
One of my students had one on today, I never give it a second thought
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on October 25, 2011, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)

Wear it with pride son, I have no issue with you wearing a poppy, I could not care less what you wear.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 25, 2011, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;) Fág an Bealach

O is it that time of year again, pointless triumphalism and an inability to realise the romantic empire is dead and gone, its with old Cromwell in his grave.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on October 25, 2011, 11:32:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)

EG, what movie is your signature from - I can't put my finger on it.

Don't care about anyone wearing a poppy, it's entirely up to them. Find it a bit ludicrous that people can have them out a month in advance of Rememberance Sunday but it doesn't hurt me or anger me in any way. Nobody on TV or the public eye in general should be pressurized into wearing one.

MGHU, even some of your best armchair Provo mates on here wouldn't pretend the poppy is about triumphalism.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: maddog on October 25, 2011, 11:46:22 PM
funny i saw the first one today in Snow Hill station Birmingham, so f**king what, carry on. Mind you if our office (of about 50) is anything to go by in any given year there is about 2 that wear them. One guy is ex raf and the other reads lots of those Andy Mc Nab books. ;) No one else gives a rats arse.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 11:52:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 25, 2011, 11:32:29 PM
EG, what movie is your signature from - I can't put my finger on it.
It's from this one:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0198668/

Not an outstanding film, by any means, but still rather underated imo - plus it's got Orla Brady in it, which is never a bad thing!

Anyhow, I enjoyed that particular exchange (signature) because I always think it a much better version of the famous Crocodile Dundee "Call that a knife?" line.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)
Nice to see a unionist embrace the Irish Language although the correct spelling is Fág an Bealach I believe.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Olly on October 26, 2011, 10:04:03 AM
I saw a beautiful puppy in the window of a neighbour yesterday. The house was dark so I couldn't see a lot of it when I peered through it but this small dog was lying prone on the mat. It was tremendous.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haveaharp on October 26, 2011, 11:21:21 AM
Do the poppies all come from Afghanistan? If they do its a nice way of supporting the very people that are trying to kill them. Or are they just made of plastic ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on October 26, 2011, 01:13:13 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on October 26, 2011, 11:21:21 AM
Do the poppies all come from Afghanistan? If they do its a nice way of supporting the very people that are trying to kill them. Or are they just made of plastic ?

Yes, the poppies are grown in the field next to the opium field. I agree it is jolly decent of the british to support these industries while at the same time killing the people.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 26, 2011, 02:58:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)
Nice to see a unionist embrace the Irish Language
I have no objections whatever to the speaking of Irish, only to the politicisation of the language by you-know-who. In fact if anything, I am all for the widening of the country's linguistic and cultural knowledge, as were eg my many Unionist/Protestant forebears who played such a vital role in the retention and revival of the language in the 19th Century etc.

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM... although the correct spelling is Fág an Bealach I believe.
It would only be "correct" if we were debating in Irish.

"Faugh a Ballagh" is the anglicised version; more pertinently to this thread, it is also the regimental motto of the Royal Irish Regiment.  ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20923094@N04/3040243437/
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on October 26, 2011, 03:15:19 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 26, 2011, 02:58:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)
Nice to see a unionist embrace the Irish Language
I have no objections whatever to the speaking of Irish, only to the politicisation of the language by you-know-who. In fact if anything, I am all for the widening of the country's linguistic and cultural knowledge, as were eg my many Unionist/Protestant forebears who played such a vital role in the retention and revival of the language in the 19th Century etc.

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM... although the correct spelling is Fág an Bealach I believe.
It would only be "correct" if we were debating in Irish.

"Faugh a Ballagh" is the anglicised version; more pertinently to this thread, it is also the regimental motto of the Royal Irish Regiment.  ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20923094@N04/3040243437/

A royal shower of cnuts is what they are.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2011, 03:17:01 PM
(http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1303868541032&id=703d32bbaa8b678e11f9d83900b4e6f0)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 27, 2011, 09:10:17 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 26, 2011, 02:58:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)
Nice to see a unionist embrace the Irish Language
I have no objections whatever to the speaking of Irish, only to the politicisation of the language by you-know-who. In fact if anything, I am all for the widening of the country's linguistic and cultural knowledge, as were eg my many Unionist/Protestant forebears who played such a vital role in the retention and revival of the language in the 19th Century etc.

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM... although the correct spelling is Fág an Bealach I believe.
It would only be "correct" if we were debating in Irish.

"Faugh a Ballagh" is the anglicised version; more pertinently to this thread, it is also the regimental motto of the Royal Irish Regiment.  ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20923094@N04/3040243437/
Ahh I see a makey uppy language a bit like Ulster Scots so that the boys don't have to dirty their tongues. It also features on loads of Loyalist flags on lamp posts.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on October 27, 2011, 09:28:19 AM
I fail to see any differentiation between a loyalist paramilitary flag and a UDR (RIR) flag
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 27, 2011, 09:28:19 AM
I fail to see any differentiation between a loyalist paramilitary flag and a UDR (RIR) flag
+1
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 01:22:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 27, 2011, 09:10:17 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 26, 2011, 02:58:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)
Nice to see a unionist embrace the Irish Language
I have no objections whatever to the speaking of Irish, only to the politicisation of the language by you-know-who. In fact if anything, I am all for the widening of the country's linguistic and cultural knowledge, as were eg my many Unionist/Protestant forebears who played such a vital role in the retention and revival of the language in the 19th Century etc.

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM... although the correct spelling is Fág an Bealach I believe.
It would only be "correct" if we were debating in Irish.

"Faugh a Ballagh" is the anglicised version; more pertinently to this thread, it is also the regimental motto of the Royal Irish Regiment.  ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20923094@N04/3040243437/
Ahh I see a makey uppy language a bit like Ulster Scots so that the boys don't have to dirty their tongues. It also features on loads of Loyalist flags on lamp posts.
So English is a "makey uppy language", is it?

I suppose you'll be telling me next that Irish doesn't contain its own Gaelicised(?) version of words taken from other languages, too...

Amadán
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 02:21:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 01:22:09 PM
So English is a "makey uppy language", is it?

Actually, yes, English is a makey uppy language. It borrows from all historical languages which is why it makes it pretty powerful in a colonial kinda way. The river Usk in Britain is essentially the same as the Irish and Scots gaelic word 'uisce'. All language is derived to an extent except that god awful dialect called Ulster Scots which is just people from North Antrim being drunk.

If I was being kind, I'd call your RIR lads 'hooligans' (from the Irish family name Ó hUallacháin, anglicised as O'Houlihan) being one who takes part in rowdy behaviour and vandalism. The differentiation between them and their brothers in the UDA is phoney (old english fawney derived from the Irish for ring - fainne). Fecking Tories (tóraí originally an irish outlaw adopted to describe confederates or royalists with arms).

But yes, all languages borrow from each other to a certain extent. Some more than others.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 27, 2011, 03:35:38 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 01:22:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 27, 2011, 09:10:17 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 26, 2011, 02:58:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 25, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
Well, it's the 25th October and I saw my first Poppies for sale today - bought one, too.

It was in the Chemists. An Asian-owned Chemists. In England. I'm disappointed that NI got beaten to it - must do better next year, if we're to keep Nationalists feeling intimidated and oppressed.

And if I'm honest, I'm feeling a wee bit disappointed that my gesture in wearing one isn't going to achieve the maximum effect.

Fortunately I'm due back in NI at the weekend, so I'll make sure and wear mine prominently, so as to be able to "force it down peoples throat" [sic] properly.

Faugh a Ballagh!  ;)
Nice to see a unionist embrace the Irish Language
I have no objections whatever to the speaking of Irish, only to the politicisation of the language by you-know-who. In fact if anything, I am all for the widening of the country's linguistic and cultural knowledge, as were eg my many Unionist/Protestant forebears who played such a vital role in the retention and revival of the language in the 19th Century etc.

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 26, 2011, 08:42:26 AM... although the correct spelling is Fág an Bealach I believe.
It would only be "correct" if we were debating in Irish.

"Faugh a Ballagh" is the anglicised version; more pertinently to this thread, it is also the regimental motto of the Royal Irish Regiment.  ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20923094@N04/3040243437/
Ahh I see a makey uppy language a bit like Ulster Scots so that the boys don't have to dirty their tongues. It also features on loads of Loyalist flags on lamp posts.
So English is a "makey uppy language", is it?

I suppose you'll be telling me next that Irish doesn't contain its own Gaelicised(?) version of words taken from other languages, too...

Amadán
This is not english but a made up version of an Irish phrase.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 03:38:24 PM
Quote from: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 02:21:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 01:22:09 PM
So English is a "makey uppy language", is it?

Actually, yes, English is a makey uppy language. It borrows from all historical languages which is why it makes it pretty powerful in a colonial kinda way. The river Usk in Britain is essentially the same as the Irish and Scots gaelic word 'uisce'. All language is derived to an extent except that god awful dialect called Ulster Scots which is just people from North Antrim being drunk.

If I was being kind, I'd call your RIR lads 'hooligans' (from the Irish family name Ó hUallacháin, anglicised as O'Houlihan) being one who takes part in rowdy behaviour and vandalism. The differentiation between them and their brothers in the UDA is phoney (old english fawney derived from the Irish for ring - fainne). Fecking Tories (tóraí originally an irish outlaw adopted to describe confederates or royalists with arms).

But yes, all languages borrow from each other to a certain extent. Some more than others.
In that sense, all  languages are "makey uppy", including Irish, since all have been made up by the people who spoke them, some more recently than others, and some drawing on less homogeneous sources than other.

However, Apples used "makey uppy" in the sense of false, inauthentic or contrived etc. Now if you claim that "Ulster Scots" is just such a language [sic], then you'll get little argument from me.

But if you or he tries to claim that my use of "Faugh a Ballagh" in the context of this debate was similarly "makey uppy", then I am happy to cite 'Hardstation' in my support, since I fancy he is as expert on such matters as any of us.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 03:38:24 PM
Quote from: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 02:21:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 01:22:09 PM
So English is a "makey uppy language", is it?

Actually, yes, English is a makey uppy language. It borrows from all historical languages which is why it makes it pretty powerful in a colonial kinda way. The river Usk in Britain is essentially the same as the Irish and Scots gaelic word 'uisce'. All language is derived to an extent except that god awful dialect called Ulster Scots which is just people from North Antrim being drunk.

If I was being kind, I'd call your RIR lads 'hooligans' (from the Irish family name Ó hUallacháin, anglicised as O'Houlihan) being one who takes part in rowdy behaviour and vandalism. The differentiation between them and their brothers in the UDA is phoney (old english fawney derived from the Irish for ring - fainne). Fecking Tories (tóraí originally an irish outlaw adopted to describe confederates or royalists with arms).

But yes, all languages borrow from each other to a certain extent. Some more than others.
In that sense, all  languages are "makey uppy", including Irish, since all have been made up by the people who spoke them, some more recently than others, and some drawing on less homogeneous sources than other.

However, Apples used "makey uppy" in the sense of false, inauthentic or contrived etc. Now if you claim that "Ulster Scots" is just such a language [sic], then you'll get little argument from me.

But if you or he tries to claim that my use of "Faugh a Ballagh" in the context of this debate was similarly "makey uppy", then I am happy to cite 'Hardstation' in my support, since I fancy he is as expert on such matters as any of us.

I don't disagree with any of that
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 03:52:12 PM
In what context did the RIR use "Faugh a Ballagh"? Was it in reference to the regular saturation of an area by troops, and then immediate pull out just before loyalist gunmen struck?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 27, 2011, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 03:38:24 PM
Quote from: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 02:21:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 01:22:09 PM
So English is a "makey uppy language", is it?

Actually, yes, English is a makey uppy language. It borrows from all historical languages which is why it makes it pretty powerful in a colonial kinda way. The river Usk in Britain is essentially the same as the Irish and Scots gaelic word 'uisce'. All language is derived to an extent except that god awful dialect called Ulster Scots which is just people from North Antrim being drunk.

If I was being kind, I'd call your RIR lads 'hooligans' (from the Irish family name Ó hUallacháin, anglicised as O'Houlihan) being one who takes part in rowdy behaviour and vandalism. The differentiation between them and their brothers in the UDA is phoney (old english fawney derived from the Irish for ring - fainne). Fecking Tories (tóraí originally an irish outlaw adopted to describe confederates or royalists with arms).

But yes, all languages borrow from each other to a certain extent. Some more than others.
In that sense, all  languages are "makey uppy", including Irish, since all have been made up by the people who spoke them, some more recently than others, and some drawing on less homogeneous sources than other.

However, Apples used "makey uppy" in the sense of false, inauthentic or contrived etc. Now if you claim that "Ulster Scots" is just such a language [sic], then you'll get little argument from me.

But if you or he tries to claim that my use of "Faugh a Ballagh" in the context of this debate was similarly "makey uppy", then I am happy to cite 'Hardstation' in my support, since I fancy he is as expert on such matters as any of us.
The point I am making is that if this is a genuine attempt to use Irish to represent the Irish origins of the regiment then why not use the correct spelling. Having said that most of the UDR/RIR soldiers who stopped me during the troubles found the English language a challenge, never mind expecting them to learn Irish
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 05:35:17 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 27, 2011, 04:50:17 PMThe point I am making is that if this is a genuine attempt to use Irish to represent the Irish origins of the regiment then why not use the correct spelling.
This is a thread about the wearing of the Poppy.

In that context, I chose to quote the regimental motto of a famous Irish regiment. I quoted it exactly as they spell it, which is an anglicisation of what was originally an Irish-language phrase.

I guess I might have used the original* Irish spelling, but seeing as this debate is in English, I consider it much more appropariate to use the commonly accepted (English) spelling in use today.

And in any case, if Hardstation considers that my usage was at least not "incorrect", then I am obviously happy to defer to his judgement. You might be advised to do the same...   


* - By the way, was there a standardised system of spelling for Irish in 1811 (when the phrase was first used in the Battle of Barossa)? Does anyone know how Sgt. Masterson would have spelt it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faugh_A_Ballagh
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on October 27, 2011, 07:15:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 05:35:17 PMin 1811 ... the phrase was first used

I hardly think so.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Niall Quinn on October 27, 2011, 07:40:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2011, 07:15:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 05:35:17 PMin 1811 ... the phrase was first used

I hardly think so.

And I, Niall Quinn, concur.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 08:41:31 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2011, 07:15:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 05:35:17 PMin 1811 ... the phrase was first used

I hardly think so.
OK, I shall indulge your pedantry.

"In 1798 the phrase was adopted by the 87th (Princess of Wales's Irish) Regiment of Foot as its Regimental Motto, becoming especially famous following an engagement by the 2nd Battalion in the Battle of Barossa in 1811. It was subsequently retained by several other Irish Regiments of the British Army until the present day, it being the motto of the Royal Irish Regiment"

Happy now? For if you are, perhaps you could tell me (Apples, actually) whether there was any official, standardised way of spelling in Irish in 1798?

P.S. Could you tell me which of the following is correct spelling in today's Irish, "Fág an Bealach" or "Fág a' Bealach"?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on October 27, 2011, 08:47:51 PM
That's better. Don't disparage pedantry - we wouldn't be here on the internet without it.

Fág an bealach is how it's spelled today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 27, 2011, 09:02:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2011, 08:57:04 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 08:41:31 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2011, 07:15:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 05:35:17 PMin 1811 ... the phrase was first used

I hardly think so.
OK, I shall indulge your pedantry.

"In 1798 the phrase was adopted by the 87th (Princess of Wales's Irish) Regiment of Foot as its Regimental Motto, becoming especially famous following an engagement by the 2nd Battalion in the Battle of Barossa in 1811. It was subsequently retained by several other Irish Regiments of the British Army until the present day, it being the motto of the Royal Irish Regiment"

Happy now? For if you are, perhaps you could tell me (Apples, actually) whether there was any official, standardised way of spelling in Irish in 1798?

P.S. Could you tell me which of the following is correct spelling in today's Irish, "Fág an Bealach" or "Fág a' Bealach"?
Fág an Bealach, strictly speaking but it would take a complete t**t to pull you on that. I actually prefer the a' rather than the an.

There wouldn't have been an official, standardised way of spelling back then, I don't think.

Applesisapples, why not go up to Carey Faughs and tell them that they have it wrong? Just to point out again, btw, you have the wrong Irish spelling of Armagh on your profile.

True hardstation, it's akin to Béal a' Mhuirthead/an Mhuirthead, Caislean an Bharraigh/ Caisleán a' Bharraigh.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 27, 2011, 09:25:52 PM
Saw one today on a person I was working with. Tried my best not to stare at the thing like it was a dingo that ate my baby. I have to say I really hate the things.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 09:26:47 PM
Jack o' clubs or jack of clubs.
There's official spelling and there's spelling the way it's said.
Of course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th ( by the forebears of the EGs of this world no doubt ).
There seemed to be a kind of stage Irishy way of phonetic English spelling of Irish words in the 19th Century e.g Graw machree , faugh a ballagh , asthoreen , etc which thankfully was ended when that great (Prod) Rosman brought our ancient language back to being a written language again.
As usual a Ros man to the rescue of Ireland in her hour of need. ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 27, 2011, 09:31:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 09:26:47 PM
thankfully was ended when that great (Prod) Rosman brought our ancient language back to being a written language again.
As usual a Ros man to the rescue of Ireland in her hour of need. ;)

Who was from just across the border from Ballaghadereen in County Mayo, in Frenchpark, County Roscommon.  ;)  :D  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 27, 2011, 09:36:03 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2011, 09:35:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 09:26:47 PM
Jack o' clubs or jack of clubs.
There's official spelling and there's spelling the way it's said.
Of course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th ( by the forebears of the EGs of this world no doubt ).
There seemed to be a kind of stage Irishy way of phonetic English spelling of Irish words in the 19th Century e.g Graw machree , faugh a ballagh , asthoreen , etc which thankfully was ended when that great (Prod) Rosman brought our ancient language back to being a written language again.
As usual a Ros man to the rescue of Ireland in her hour of need. ;)
Really??

O'Really
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 10:19:13 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 27, 2011, 09:31:53 PMBallaghadereen in County Mayo,
Stop living in the past y'eejit.
Ballagh has now spent 113 years in God's own special place and most of its residents ( except for the backward yahoos who run the GAA club) delight in the fact that their ancestors were rescued from the evil darkness .
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 09:26:47 PMOf course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th ( by the forebears of the EGs of this world no doubt ).
As Hardstation would say, "Really?" I think you're bluffing on this one...

And as for the enslavement and impovishment, are you trying to tell me that Ireland was entirely free of such afflictions between the 5th and 17th Centuries?

I mean to say, have you not heard of eg the Viking raiders from Iceland and Scandinavia or the Corsairs from the Barbary Coast? Do you think Ireland was immune to eg The Black Death*? Do you imagine that there were no raids on Ireland from eg Scotland, Wales or the Western Isles? Or that there weren't internal feuds and wars which led to slavery and impoverishment?

And in any case, if as a poor, put-upon Gael you're feeling especially downtrodden and oppressed by us nasty Planters, you might ask yourself this: Were the Celts really the first people to settle in Ireland and if not, how do you think they got on with the people already there before them?  ::)


* - Try reading this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/ashorthistory/archive/topic38.shtml
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2011, 12:34:09 AM
Handy at Halloween.

(http://www.spectator.co.uk/blogs/media/8.96/Image/Poppy%20burning.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 28, 2011, 09:01:05 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2011, 08:57:04 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 08:41:31 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2011, 07:15:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 05:35:17 PMin 1811 ... the phrase was first used

I hardly think so.
OK, I shall indulge your pedantry.

"In 1798 the phrase was adopted by the 87Th (Princess of Wales's Irish) Regiment of Foot as its Regimental Motto, becoming especially famous following an engagement by the 2nd Battalion in the Battle of Barossa in 1811. It was subsequently retained by several other Irish Regiments of the British Army until the present day, it being the motto of the Royal Irish Regiment"

Happy now? For if you are, perhaps you could tell me (Apples, actually) whether there was any official, standardised way of spelling in Irish in 1798?

P.S. Could you tell me which of the following is correct spelling in today's Irish, "Fág an Bealach" or "Fág a' Bealach"?
Fág an Bealach, strictly speaking but it would take a complete t**t to pull you on that. I actually prefer the a' rather than the an.

There wouldn't have been an official, standardised way of spelling back then, I don't think.

Applesisapples, why not go up to Carey Faughs and tell them that they have it wrong? Just to point out again, btw, you have the wrong Irish spelling of Armagh on your profile.
Yes I've seen the debate on the spelling of Ard Mhaca before, but this is the accepted version as used by the team and County I support as goes also for Carey. Irrespective of the spelling the point I was really making was the Unionist Loyalist acceptance/obsession with the Irish motto of the RIR/UDR as opposed to their objection to an Irish Language Act which would strengthen and promote the language across all boundaries. And I suppose also EG's hypocrisy on the subject. Any way as he rightly pointed out this thread is really about another divisive symbol and so I digress. Pardon me please. Any way the debate is good and sure even Hardy and EG aren't always right so I'm in good c'pany! :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 28, 2011, 10:13:37 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 28, 2011, 09:58:06 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 28, 2011, 09:01:05 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2011, 08:57:04 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 08:41:31 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2011, 07:15:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 05:35:17 PMin 1811 ... the phrase was first used

I hardly think so.
OK, I shall indulge your pedantry.

"In 1798 the phrase was adopted by the 87Th (Princess of Wales's Irish) Regiment of Foot as its Regimental Motto, becoming especially famous following an engagement by the 2nd Battalion in the Battle of Barossa in 1811. It was subsequently retained by several other Irish Regiments of the British Army until the present day, it being the motto of the Royal Irish Regiment"

Happy now? For if you are, perhaps you could tell me (Apples, actually) whether there was any official, standardised way of spelling in Irish in 1798?

P.S. Could you tell me which of the following is correct spelling in today's Irish, "Fág an Bealach" or "Fág a' Bealach"?
Fág an Bealach, strictly speaking but it would take a complete t**t to pull you on that. I actually prefer the a' rather than the an.

There wouldn't have been an official, standardised way of spelling back then, I don't think.

Applesisapples, why not go up to Carey Faughs and tell them that they have it wrong? Just to point out again, btw, you have the wrong Irish spelling of Armagh on your profile.
Yes I've seen the debate on the spelling of Ard Mhaca before, but this is the accepted version as used by the team and County I support as goes also for Carey. Irrespective of the spelling the point I was really making was the Unionist Loyalist acceptance/obsession with the Irish motto of the RIR/UDR as opposed to their objection to an Irish Language Act which would strengthen and promote the language across all boundaries. And I suppose also EG's hypocrisy on the subject. Any way as he rightly pointed out this thread is really about another divisive symbol and so I digress. Pardon me please. Any way the debate is good and sure even Hardy and EG aren't always right so I'm in good c'pany! :D
No it fcukin isn't, ya lunatic. They use Ard Mhacha, not Ard Mhaca!!!
oops, typo.Egg running down face as we speak... :D :D :D
Now fixed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on October 28, 2011, 12:16:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 09:26:47 PMOf course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th ( by the forebears of the EGs of this world no doubt ).
As Hardstation would say, "Really?" I think you're bluffing on this one...

I think you and that other buck will find that the learned classes that gave us the Book of Kells , Annals of the 4 Masters , Annals of Loch Cé etc etc would all have learned to spell the same way  ;).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on October 29, 2011, 04:57:58 PM
A complaint by a Poundland employee in Lisburn has led to the company changing its policy over the wearing of poppies.

BBC


The woman walked out of the store in Bow Street Mall after she was asked to remove the poppy from her uniform as it was against company's dress policy.
Poundland said after listening to customer and staff feedback it had reviewed its UK policy.
The company apologised for any unintended offence caused.
"We have for some years operated a clear and simple dress code that store colleagues are requested to observe," said Jim McCarthy, Poundland's chief executive.
"The policy was designed to prevent issues arising that for whatever reason could upset individuals or communities and to focus our energy on raising money for colleague-nominated charities.
"On 28 October a situation in Northern Ireland was brought to the company's attention where a store colleague was politely asked to remove a poppy by our store manager in order to comply with company policy.
Staff discretion
"The store colleague decided to walk out and stated that she would return on Monday next wearing her poppy."
Mr McCarthy said the company had decided in the case of the poppy appeal to allow store colleagues to use their own discretion in wearing poppies.
"This change in policy is consistent with recent reviews of policy made by other leading high street retailers," he added.
Lagan Valley DUP MLA Paul Givan has welcomed the decision by Poundland to allow members of staff to wear poppies on their uniform.
"I was shocked and angered that my constituent, a member of staff in Poundland, Lisburn, had been treated in this manner by the company," he said.
"My constituent, who came to me for help, wears a poppy annually to commemorate the many servicemen who paid the ultimate sacrifice during various conflicts over the last century but, in particular, her own family members that served in Northern Ireland's security forces.
"Poundland by their absurd political correctness caused deep offence and politicised an emblem that is universally regarded as a symbol of remembrance and they failed to take into account clear guidance by the Equality Commission that the poppy is not regarded as an emblem that is contentious.
"Poundland seriously underestimated the hurt caused to their employee and the wider community."
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 29, 2011, 05:00:28 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 29, 2011, 04:57:58 PM
A complaint by a Poundland employee in Lisburn has led to the company changing its policy over the wearing of poppies.

BBC


The woman walked out of the store in Bow Street Mall after she was asked to remove the poppy from her uniform as it was against company's dress policy.
Poundland said after listening to customer and staff feedback it had reviewed its UK policy.
The company apologised for any unintended offence caused.
"We have for some years operated a clear and simple dress code that store colleagues are requested to observe," said Jim McCarthy, Poundland's chief executive.
"The policy was designed to prevent issues arising that for whatever reason could upset individuals or communities and to focus our energy on raising money for colleague-nominated charities.
"On 28 October a situation in Northern Ireland was brought to the company's attention where a store colleague was politely asked to remove a poppy by our store manager in order to comply with company policy.
Staff discretion
"The store colleague decided to walk out and stated that she would return on Monday next wearing her poppy."
Mr McCarthy said the company had decided in the case of the poppy appeal to allow store colleagues to use their own discretion in wearing poppies.
"This change in policy is consistent with recent reviews of policy made by other leading high street retailers," he added.
Lagan Valley DUP MLA Paul Givan has welcomed the decision by Poundland to allow members of staff to wear poppies on their uniform.
"I was shocked and angered that my constituent, a member of staff in Poundland, Lisburn, had been treated in this manner by the company," he said.
"My constituent, who came to me for help, wears a poppy annually to commemorate the many servicemen who paid the ultimate sacrifice during various conflicts over the last century but, in particular, her own family members that served in Northern Ireland's security forces.
"Poundland by their absurd political correctness caused deep offence and politicised an emblem that is universally regarded as a symbol of remembrance and they failed to take into account clear guidance by the Equality Commission that the poppy is not regarded as an emblem that is contentious.
"Poundland seriously underestimated the hurt caused to their employee and the wider community."

Wasn't there a similar story in Asda a few years ago in relation to people wearing GAA jersies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fitzroyalty on October 29, 2011, 05:39:41 PM
I don't mind people wearing poppies but people who take a hissyfit because they can't wear it to work is a joke.

Well for some that they can walk out of a shift to go and gurn to the local DUP who in turn runs with a root on to the media to ganch about the "great offence" caused. Shows were this person's priorities lie. Commemerate my hole.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Worker on October 29, 2011, 06:15:57 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 29, 2011, 05:39:41 PM
I don't mind people wearing poppies but people who take a hissyfit because they can't wear it to work is a joke.

Well for some that they can walk out of a shift to go and gurn to the local DUP who in turn runs with a root on to the media to ganch about the "great offence" caused. Shows were this person's priorities lie. Commemerate my hole.

I concur. They are lucky to have a job in this current climate.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: JUst retired on October 30, 2011, 07:03:56 AM
MGHU, the Asda problem was different. It was because kids were wearing GAA jersey`s in a fund raiseing effort to get funds for their club. A lot of Poppy wearer`s in this part of the world wear them as a badge of some kind of loyalty or show of their percieved loyalty. Or " up yours"  mentality. :(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 30, 2011, 09:21:20 PM
Quote from: JUst retired on October 30, 2011, 07:03:56 AM
MGHU, the Asda problem was different. It was because kids were wearing GAA jersey`s in a fund raiseing effort to get funds for their club. A lot of Poppy wearer`s in this part of the world wear them as a badge of some kind of loyalty or show of their percieved loyalty. Or " up yours"  mentality. :(
Actually it was Tesco in Antrim. Bizzarely the Antrim GAA Club has Protestant's playing for it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: turk on October 30, 2011, 09:40:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2011, 12:16:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 09:26:47 PMOf course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th ( by the forebears of the EGs of this world no doubt ).
As Hardstation would say, "Really?" I think you're bluffing on this one...

I think you and that other buck will find that the learned classes that gave us the Book of Kells , Annals of the 4 Masters , Annals of Loch Cé etc etc would all have learned to spell the same way  ;).

The Book of Kells is in Latin, so the standards body that dealt with spelling for these learned classes must have messed up there somewhere on the way.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 30, 2011, 09:59:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 30, 2011, 09:21:20 PM
Quote from: JUst retired on October 30, 2011, 07:03:56 AM
MGHU, the Asda problem was different. It was because kids were wearing GAA jersey`s in a fund raiseing effort to get funds for their club. A lot of Poppy wearer`s in this part of the world wear them as a badge of some kind of loyalty or show of their percieved loyalty. Or " up yours"  mentality. :(
Actually it was Tesco in Antrim. Bizzarely the Antrim GAA Club has Protestant's playing for it.
Do mean "ironically" or do you mean bizarrely?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 31, 2011, 09:44:21 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 30, 2011, 09:59:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 30, 2011, 09:21:20 PM
Quote from: JUst retired on October 30, 2011, 07:03:56 AM
MGHU, the Asda problem was different. It was because kids were wearing GAA jersey`s in a fund raiseing effort to get funds for their club. A lot of Poppy wearer`s in this part of the world wear them as a badge of some kind of loyalty or show of their percieved loyalty. Or " up yours"  mentality. :(
Actually it was Tesco in Antrim. Bizzarely the Antrim GAA Club has Protestant's playing for it.
Do mean "ironically" or do you mean bizarrely?
I mean the protesters were bizarre.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 31, 2011, 03:50:40 PM
Quote from: turk on October 30, 2011, 09:40:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2011, 12:16:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 09:26:47 PMOf course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th ( by the forebears of the EGs of this world no doubt ).
As Hardstation would say, "Really?" I think you're bluffing on this one...

I think you and that other buck will find that the learned classes that gave us the Book of Kells , Annals of the 4 Masters , Annals of Loch Cé etc etc would all have learned to spell the same way  ;).

The Book of Kells is in Latin, so the standards body that dealt with spelling for these learned classes must have messed up there somewhere on the way.
Beat me to it, Turk!  :D

As for other examples of Irish Literature, it was originally claimed by Rossfan that there was a single, standardised system of spelling and writing Irish from the 5th to the 17th* Centuries. This, of course, is complete balls, too. In fact, the system of spelling and writing Irish changed and evolved constantly during this period:

"It is usual to divide Irish, as we find it written, into three stages: I. Old Irish, from the eighth to the twelfth century. This is the language of the Irish found in the Book of Armagh, and of some few passages in the Book of the Dun Cow. II. Middle Irish, from the twelfth to the fifteenth century, marked by many departures from the pure Old Irish forms. This is the language of most of our important manuscripts...    ... such as the Book of the Dun Cow, the Book of Leinster, the Lebar Brecc, and the Book of Ballymote. III. Modern Irish, from the fifteenth century to the present day."
http://oracleireland.com/books/joyce-pw-001htm.htm

In fact, I think I'm correct in saying that even widely spoken languages such as French, Spanish and English, only developed standardised systems of writing and spelling comparatively recently (18th Century onwards?), as centralised government, advanced communications and universal education etc took hold.


* - When those big, bad Planters somehow hypnotised the Gaels into forgetting how to spell properly...  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on October 31, 2011, 04:23:31 PM
Yes, but

"what is quite remarkable about late medieval* Gaelic is that there had long evolved a standard literary form, classical common Gaelic (usually described in Ireland as ‘classical modern Irish’), which was written … by the Gaelic learned classes throughout the Gaelic world and was maintained by schools of native learning established in Ireland and Scotland.

"… anything written in Gaelic was in this standard literary form, which was very much a scholarly language with a long tradition of writing on such topics as theology and medicine."


A View of the Irish Language: Language and History in Ireland from the Middle Ages to the Present
- Steven G. Ellis, National University of Ireland, Galway

(* The context of the piece puts this as having been the case by 1400 - i.e. by that time there had "long" been a standard literary form.)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dec on October 31, 2011, 07:58:39 PM
http://www.stm.unipi.it/programmasocrates/cliohnet/books/language2/06_Ellis.pdf

Turning to the fortunes of the language, in 1400 Gaelic was spoken throughout most of Ireland, Scotland, and the Isle of Man, with the exception of the Scottish lowlands and small parts of eastern and southern Ireland.
What is quite remarkable about late medieval Gaelic is that there had long evolved a standard literary form, classical common Gaelic (usually described in Ireland as 'classical modern Irish'), which was written (and presumably spoken) by the Gaelic learned classes throughout the Gaelic world and was maintained by schools of native learning established in Ireland and Scotland. Presumably, the peasantry must have spoken different dialects, but anything written in Gaelic was in this standard literary form, which was very much a scholarly language with a long tradition of writing on such topics as theology and medicine.
Although Gaelic was denigrated by English and Scots princes as a barbarous language spoken by savages, the reality was that Gaelic in 1400 was far more of a literary language than English or Scots. In both Ireland and Scotland, moreover, the language was, if anything, gaining ground as a result of the impact of the Gaelic Revival. It was only as a result of two major developments in the 16th century that the status of Gaelic went into long-term decline.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2011, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: dec on October 31, 2011, 07:58:39 PM
http://www.stm.unipi.it/programmasocrates/cliohnet/books/language2/06_Ellis.pdf

Turning to the fortunes of the language, in 1400 Gaelic was spoken throughout most of Ireland, Scotland, and the Isle of Man, with the exception of the Scottish lowlands and small parts of eastern and southern Ireland.
What is quite remarkable about late medieval Gaelic is that there had long evolved a standard literary form, classical common Gaelic (usually described in Ireland as 'classical modern Irish'), which was written (and presumably spoken) by the Gaelic learned classes throughout the Gaelic world and was maintained by schools of native learning established in Ireland and Scotland. Presumably, the peasantry must have spoken different dialects, but anything written in Gaelic was in this standard literary form, which was very much a scholarly language with a long tradition of writing on such topics as theology and medicine.
Although Gaelic was denigrated by English and Scots princes as a barbarous language spoken by savages, the reality was that Gaelic in 1400 was far more of a literary language than English or Scots. In both Ireland and Scotland, moreover, the language was, if anything, gaining ground as a result of the impact of the Gaelic Revival. It was only as a result of two major developments in the 16th century that the status of Gaelic went into long-term decline.

I couldnt have rebutted Evil Balls better myself.

Of course he stll won't admit we were a learned civilised nation before the robbing murderous bastards from the next island came over and stole all our land etcetc ... or did that not happen either ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 31, 2011, 09:24:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2011, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: dec on October 31, 2011, 07:58:39 PM
http://www.stm.unipi.it/programmasocrates/cliohnet/books/language2/06_Ellis.pdf

Turning to the fortunes of the language, in 1400 Gaelic was spoken throughout most of Ireland, Scotland, and the Isle of Man, with the exception of the Scottish lowlands and small parts of eastern and southern Ireland.
What is quite remarkable about late medieval Gaelic is that there had long evolved a standard literary form, classical common Gaelic (usually described in Ireland as 'classical modern Irish'), which was written (and presumably spoken) by the Gaelic learned classes throughout the Gaelic world and was maintained by schools of native learning established in Ireland and Scotland. Presumably, the peasantry must have spoken different dialects, but anything written in Gaelic was in this standard literary form, which was very much a scholarly language with a long tradition of writing on such topics as theology and medicine.
Although Gaelic was denigrated by English and Scots princes as a barbarous language spoken by savages, the reality was that Gaelic in 1400 was far more of a literary language than English or Scots. In both Ireland and Scotland, moreover, the language was, if anything, gaining ground as a result of the impact of the Gaelic Revival. It was only as a result of two major developments in the 16th century that the status of Gaelic went into long-term decline.

I couldnt have rebutted Evil Balls better myself.

Of course he stll won't admit we were a learned civilised nation before the robbing murderous b**tards from the next island came over and stole all our land etcetc ... or did that not happen either ;)

Word, brotha.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on October 31, 2011, 10:07:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2011, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: dec on October 31, 2011, 07:58:39 PM
http://www.stm.unipi.it/programmasocrates/cliohnet/books/language2/06_Ellis.pdf

Turning to the fortunes of the language, in 1400 Gaelic was spoken throughout most of Ireland, Scotland, and the Isle of Man, with the exception of the Scottish lowlands and small parts of eastern and southern Ireland.
What is quite remarkable about late medieval Gaelic is that there had long evolved a standard literary form, classical common Gaelic (usually described in Ireland as 'classical modern Irish'), which was written (and presumably spoken) by the Gaelic learned classes throughout the Gaelic world and was maintained by schools of native learning established in Ireland and Scotland. Presumably, the peasantry must have spoken different dialects, but anything written in Gaelic was in this standard literary form, which was very much a scholarly language with a long tradition of writing on such topics as theology and medicine.
Although Gaelic was denigrated by English and Scots princes as a barbarous language spoken by savages, the reality was that Gaelic in 1400 was far more of a literary language than English or Scots. In both Ireland and Scotland, moreover, the language was, if anything, gaining ground as a result of the impact of the Gaelic Revival. It was only as a result of two major developments in the 16th century that the status of Gaelic went into long-term decline.

I couldnt have rebutted Evil Balls better myself.

Of course he stll won't admit we were a learned civilised nation before the robbing murderous b**tards from the next island came over and stole all our land etcetc ... or did that not happen either ;)


:D :D :D

Brilliant, he also lets the aul hatred show at certain times of the year more than others, this being one of them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on October 31, 2011, 10:20:02 PM
[quote]* - When those big, bad Planters somehow hypnotised the Gaels into forgetting how to spell properly...  [/quote]

I'm confused.  What did EG say that had to be rebutted? 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on October 31, 2011, 11:37:15 PM
Quote from: dec on October 31, 2011, 07:58:39 PM
http://www.stm.unipi.it/programmasocrates/cliohnet/books/language2/06_Ellis.pdf

Turning to the fortunes of the language, in 1400 Gaelic was spoken throughout most of Ireland, Scotland, and the Isle of Man, with the exception of the Scottish lowlands and small parts of eastern and southern Ireland.
What is quite remarkable about late medieval Gaelic is that there had long evolved a standard literary form, classical common Gaelic (usually described in Ireland as 'classical modern Irish'), which was written (and presumably spoken) by the Gaelic learned classes throughout the Gaelic world and was maintained by schools of native learning established in Ireland and Scotland. Presumably, the peasantry must have spoken different dialects, but anything written in Gaelic was in this standard literary form, which was very much a scholarly language with a long tradition of writing on such topics as theology and medicine.
Although Gaelic was denigrated by English and Scots princes as a barbarous language spoken by savages, the reality was that Gaelic in 1400 was far more of a literary language than English or Scots. In both Ireland and Scotland, moreover, the language was, if anything, gaining ground as a result of the impact of the Gaelic Revival. It was only as a result of two major developments in the 16th century that the status of Gaelic went into long-term decline.

Ahem ...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dec on November 01, 2011, 01:59:43 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2011, 11:37:15 PM
Quote from: dec on October 31, 2011, 07:58:39 PM
http://www.stm.unipi.it/programmasocrates/cliohnet/books/language2/06_Ellis.pdf

Turning to the fortunes of the language, in 1400 Gaelic was spoken throughout most of Ireland, Scotland, and the Isle of Man, with the exception of the Scottish lowlands and small parts of eastern and southern Ireland.
What is quite remarkable about late medieval Gaelic is that there had long evolved a standard literary form, classical common Gaelic (usually described in Ireland as 'classical modern Irish'), which was written (and presumably spoken) by the Gaelic learned classes throughout the Gaelic world and was maintained by schools of native learning established in Ireland and Scotland. Presumably, the peasantry must have spoken different dialects, but anything written in Gaelic was in this standard literary form, which was very much a scholarly language with a long tradition of writing on such topics as theology and medicine.
Although Gaelic was denigrated by English and Scots princes as a barbarous language spoken by savages, the reality was that Gaelic in 1400 was far more of a literary language than English or Scots. In both Ireland and Scotland, moreover, the language was, if anything, gaining ground as a result of the impact of the Gaelic Revival. It was only as a result of two major developments in the 16th century that the status of Gaelic went into long-term decline.

Ahem ...

I know, I was just providing a link to the whole article.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 01, 2011, 10:59:13 AM
Sorry.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 01, 2011, 06:11:53 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2011, 04:23:31 PM
Yes, but

"what is quite remarkable about late medieval* Gaelic is that there had long evolved a standard literary form, classical common Gaelic (usually described in Ireland as 'classical modern Irish'), which was written ... by the Gaelic learned classes throughout the Gaelic world and was maintained by schools of native learning established in Ireland and Scotland.

"... anything written in Gaelic was in this standard literary form, which was very much a scholarly language with a long tradition of writing on such topics as theology and medicine."


A View of the Irish Language: Language and History in Ireland from the Middle Ages to the Present
- Steven G. Ellis, National University of Ireland, Galway

(* The context of the piece puts this as having been the case by 1400 - i.e. by that time there had "long" been a standard literary form.)
Now if I were the suspicious type, Hardy, I'd say you were being a little disingenuous in not providing a link, so we could judge the "context of the piece" for ourselves.

But I'm not, so I won't.  ;)

Anyhow, nothing you or anyone else has posted contradicts or refutes anything I've posted.

For this dispute originated when I used the term "Faugh a Ballagh" and was informed by Apples that this was "incorrect". Of course this was nonsense, since as the recognised Anglicisation, not only was it not "incorrect", but it was entirely appropriate for a debate in English (as well as being the version used by the RIR).

Further, when I was informed that I should be using an Irish spelling and I questioned whether there was a standardised form of written Irish in 1798 (when Faugh a Ballagh was adopted), the responses pretty much proved that there was not (see Hardstation's posts etc).

At which point, 'Rossfan' tried to assert the following:
"Of course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th".

My instinctive reaction to this was to term it "balls", causing you and 'dec' to cite an extract from the Ellis piece. Yet a rudimentary google confirms my belief that 'Rossfan's 5th - 17th C claim is, indeed, balls, as follows.

It is not in dispute that there was a long period from around the 14th to 17th Century (sometimes known as the "Classical Irish" period) when the language has a scholarly standardised written form. This is the period to which Ellis refers when he deems it "long established [by 1400]".

Whether this standardised period stretched back as far as the Middle Irish period (12-14th Century?) is not so clear and is not specifically claimed to have done by Ellis.

In any case, it most certainly did not stretch back as far as the Old Irish period prior, since Irish used the Latin alphabet during that time.

And as for the earliest period of Rossfan's claimed unbroken line (5th, 6th, 7th Century?) such written Irish as remains was written in Ogham script.

So "Balls" it most certainly was; then again, what else would one expect from someone who cites the Book of Kells as a template for Irish spelling?  :D

P.S. Rossfan might also be wise not to berate me for using an Anglicisation, for when he himself refers to "Na Ceithre Máistrí"  as "The Annals of the Four Masters", he may be guilty of the same grievous offence himself! (Any ideas, Hardstation?)     

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2011, 06:19:20 PM
Hate the sight of these poppies, and soon it will be the sectarian Guy Fawkes Day  >:(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 01, 2011, 06:25:06 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 01, 2011, 06:11:53 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2011, 04:23:31 PM
Yes, but

"what is quite remarkable about late medieval* Gaelic is that there had long evolved a standard literary form, classical common Gaelic (usually described in Ireland as ‘classical modern Irish’), which was written … by the Gaelic learned classes throughout the Gaelic world and was maintained by schools of native learning established in Ireland and Scotland.

"… anything written in Gaelic was in this standard literary form, which was very much a scholarly language with a long tradition of writing on such topics as theology and medicine."


A View of the Irish Language: Language and History in Ireland from the Middle Ages to the Present
- Steven G. Ellis, National University of Ireland, Galway

(* The context of the piece puts this as having been the case by 1400 - i.e. by that time there had "long" been a standard literary form.)
Now if I were the suspicious type, Hardy, I'd say you were being a little disingenuous in not providing a link, so we could judge the "context of the piece" for ourselves.

But I'm not, so I won't.  ;)

Anyhow, nothing you or anyone else has posted contradicts or refutes anything I've posted.

For this dispute originated when I used the term "Faugh a Ballagh" and was informed by Apples that this was "incorrect". Of course this was nonsense, since as the recognised Anglicisation, not only was it not "incorrect", but it was entirely appropriate for a debate in English (as well as being the version used by the RIR).

Further, when I was informed that I should be using an Irish spelling and I questioned whether there was a standardised form of written Irish in 1798 (when Faugh a Ballagh was adopted), the responses pretty much proved that there was not (see Hardstation's posts etc).

At which point, 'Rossfan' tried to assert the following:
"Of course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th".

My instinctive reaction to this was to term it "balls", causing you and 'dec' to cite an extract from the Ellis piece. Yet a rudimentary google confirms my belief that 'Rossfan's 5th - 17th C claim is, indeed, balls, as follows.

It is not in dispute that there was a long period from around the 14th to 17th Century (sometimes known as the "Classical Irish" period) when the language has a scholarly standardised written form. This is the period to which Ellis refers when he deems it "long established [by 1400]".

Whether this standardised period stretched back as far as the Middle Irish period (12-14th Century?) is not so clear and is not specifically claimed to have done by Ellis.

In any case, it most certainly did not stretch back as far as the Old Irish period prior, since Irish used the Latin alphabet during that time.

And as for the earliest period of Rossfan's claimed unbroken line (5th, 6th, 7th Century?) such written Irish as remains was written in Ogham script.

So "Balls" it most certainly was; then again, what else would one expect from someone who cites the Book of Kells as a template for Irish spelling?  :D

P.S. Rossfan might also be wise not to berate me for using an Anglicisation, for when he himself refers to "Na Ceithre Máistrí"  as "The Annals of the Four Masters", he may be guilty of the same grievous offence himself! (Any ideas, Hardstation?)     



I wasn't trying to refute anything, much less trying to hide context. I was simply adding what I thought was illumination for people participating in the discussion, including yourself, because I took their participation as an indication of interest in the subject.

I thought you'd find it interesting, since you were discussing the relatively recent development of standard forms of English and French, to learn that classical modern Irish had a standard literary form that was already long established by 1400. That's all. I didn't claim or suggest that it went back to the 5th century or anything else, so I don't see the need for you to refute something that wasn't claimed or suggested and I don't understand why it's important for you to establish this.

To repeat - classical modern Irish had a standard literary form that was already long established by 1400. I find that fascinating.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 01, 2011, 06:43:24 PM
The British vandals broke up monasteries and the like and inhibited the circulation of scholars, ensuring the balkanisation of Gaelic.

The people who lost out most in this  balkanisation were the Manx who lost their spelling and who had a pseudo Welsh orthography  applied to their language which disguises that it is Gaelic.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 01, 2011, 06:52:32 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2011, 06:25:06 PM
I wasn't trying to refute anything, much less trying to hide context. I was simply adding what I thought was illumination for people participating in the discussion, including yourself, because I took their participation as an indication of interest in the subject.
I guess I must be the suspicious type then, after all...

Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2011, 06:25:06 PMI thought you'd find it interesting, since you were discussing the relatively recent development of standard forms of English and French, to learn that classical modern Irish had a standard literary form that was already long established by 1400. That's all.
Hmmm.
When, in response to the claim that something dated "from the 5th to the 17th Century", someone else points out that it was "long-established by 1400 etc", that certainly leaves open the possibility that the original claim is correct.
Therefore why didn't you post "that it was long-established by 1400, but I don't know whether as far back as 400" (or somesuch)?

Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2011, 06:25:06 PMI didn't claim or suggest that it went back to the 5th century or anything else, so I don't see the need for you to refute something that wasn't claimed or suggested and I don't understand why it's important for you to establish this.
Rossfan made a claim that was patently balls, but you didn't take him up on it. Whereas you felt moved to "clarify" (shall we say?) my post, even though it was not incorrect?

I think that says more about you than me...
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2011, 06:25:06 PMTo repeat - classical modern Irish had a standard literary form that was already long established by 1400. I find that fascinating.
Me too.

Mind you, if someone told me that it actually went back, unbroken, to the 5th Century, I wouldn't just be fascinated, I'd be astonished.

Indeed, nearly as astonished as being "corrected" on the topic by someone like 'Rossfan', who believes that the Book of Kells, Ireland's most famous literary work, was written in Irish... ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Forever Green on November 01, 2011, 06:54:54 PM
You spout some shite
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 01, 2011, 07:02:44 PM
Can Fearon expect a poppy wearing McAfee to "just happen be in the area" and for him to stop in for a friendly wee chat during poppy wearing season?

Sad bastids all.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 01, 2011, 07:09:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2011, 06:43:24 PMThe British vandals broke up monasteries and the like and inhibited the circulation of scholars, ensuring the balkanisation of Gaelic.
I think you'll find The Vandals were busy breaking up Monastries elsewhere, and rather earlier. Earlier, even, than eg the Vikings.

As for the 17th Century British colonists, I think you'll find that many of them had refined their Monastry-breaking skills, both in Ireland and at home, nearly a Century earlier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Monasteries
So maybe it wan't personal after all?

In any case, it explains why 'Apples', too, was talking balls when he implied there was still a single, standardised system of spelling Irish by the beginning of the 19th Century.

"Clear The Way!"  ;)

Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2011, 06:43:24 PMThe people who lost out most in this  balkanisation were the Manx who lost their spelling and who had a pseudo Welsh orthography  applied to their language which disguises that it is Gaelic.
Indeed.

Oh for a Manx Republican Army, to right (write?) the wrongs of 800 years of oppresshun etc... :o
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 01, 2011, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 01, 2011, 06:52:32 PMyou felt moved to "clarify" (shall we say?) my post, even though it was not incorrect?

I think that says more about you than me...

WTF???

I wasn't clarifying your post. I was adding an item of information.

What do you think you've learned about me from that?

Wait - I don't care.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 01, 2011, 09:14:53 PM
E.G. perhaps you had better acquaint yourself with the English language and spend less time gloating over the damage done to Gaelic by your ancestors.

van·dal    [van-dl]
noun
1. (initial capital letter) a member of a Germanic people who in the 5th century a.d. ravaged Gaul and Spain, settled in Africa, and in a.d. 455 sacked Rome.
2. a person who willfully or ignorantly destroys or mars something beautiful or valuable.


As I did not use a capital letter I meant the second meaning.

But now that you mention it, the Vandals were a Germanic tribe of barbarian wreckers, a description that also fits their Anglo-Saxon cousins' actions in Ireland.

Quote from: Evil GeniusAs for the 17th Century British colonists, I think you'll find that many of them had refined their Monastry-breaking skills, both in Ireland and at home, nearly a Century earlier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Monasteries
So maybe it wan't personal after all?

Dissolving monasteries in your own country is one thing, invading the neighbours and dissolving their's is somewhat personal.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2011, 09:31:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2011, 09:14:53 PM
E.G. perhaps you had better acquaint yourself with the English language and spend less time gloating over the damage done to Gaelic by your ancestors.

van·dal    [van-dl]
noun
1. (initial capital letter) a member of a Germanic people who in the 5th century a.d. ravaged Gaul and Spain, settled in Africa, and in a.d. 455 sacked Rome.
2. a person who willfully or ignorantly destroys or mars something beautiful or valuable.


As I did not use a capital letter I meant the second meaning.

But now that you mention it, the Vandals were a Germanic tribe of barbarian wreckers, a description that also fits their Anglo-Saxon cousins' actions in Ireland.

Quote from: Evil GeniusAs for the 17th Century British colonists, I think you'll find that many of them had refined their Monastry-breaking skills, both in Ireland and at home, nearly a Century earlier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Monasteries
So maybe it wan't personal after all?

Dissolving monasteries in your own country is one thing, invading the neighbours and dissolving their's is somewhat personal.

The Vandals were actually misrepresented by the Romans for destroying Carthage (hence the propeganda of the use of the word vandalism), which they did not, they took it off the Romans. However when the Romans took Carthage off the Carthaginian, they in fact are the ones who destroyed or vandalised it.

You should actually read the history not the Roman propeganda.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 01, 2011, 09:39:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2011, 12:16:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 09:26:47 PMOf course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th ( by the forebears of the EGs of this world no doubt ).
As Hardstation would say, "Really?" I think you're bluffing on this one...

I think you and that other buck will find that the learned classes that gave us the Book of Kells , Annals of the 4 Masters , Annals of Loch Cé etc etc would all have learned to spell the same way  ;).

Where do I say  that the Book of Kells was written in Irish. ;) :P :-*

A lot of Ballls written by th'Evil one methinks

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 12:21:21 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 01, 2011, 09:39:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2011, 12:16:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 27, 2011, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2011, 09:26:47 PMOf course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th ( by the forebears of the EGs of this world no doubt ).
As Hardstation would say, "Really?" I think you're bluffing on this one...

I think you and that other buck will find that the learned classes that gave us the Book of Kells , Annals of the 4 Masters , Annals of Loch Cé etc etc would all have learned to spell the same way  ;).

Where do I say  that the Book of Kells was written in Irish. ;) :P :-*

A lot of Ballls written by th'Evil one methinks
When someone states:
"Of course there was a standardised spelling of Irish from the time we became Christianised ( 5th Century ) till we were enslaved and impoverished in the 17th"
and then, when called on it, replies:
"I think you and that other buck will find that the learned classes that gave us the Book of Kells , Annals of the 4 Masters , Annals of Loch Cé etc etc would all have learned to spell the same way",
the inference is clear and unmistakeable: he (you) hadn't realised it was in Latin.  :D

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Forever Green on November 02, 2011, 12:22:49 AM
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1OI1lxVOKG_rb_MC1IcISdJ4mP8WkCbUhx5xEEX7O8G37hf8w)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 12:24:43 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 01, 2011, 09:43:44 PM
Jaysus, this went mad. I still have to agree with EG. It was, imo, Rossfan who made the false claim, not EG. Although some info was added about a standard literary form in the Bardic tradition, it is irrelevant.

I also feel that the Irish bards were just a bunch of ball licking cnuts who feathered their own nest for an easy life. I mean, they wrote wee poems for their master and got to share his bed. FFS.
Well that (bold) may be one Irish tradition which has passed unbroken and unaltered from ancient times... ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 12:38:54 AM
Feathering ones own nest is long tradition. On the moral front it sure beats the cuckoo style occupation of other people's nests.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 12:38:54 AM
Feathering ones own nest is long tradition. On the moral front it sure beats the cuckoo style occupation of other people's nests.
And were the Gaels the first birds to nest in Ireland, then?  ::)

(http://images.piccsy.com/cache/images/get-over-it-56ohb9xzb-102606-500-400.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 12:52:26 AM
QuoteAnd were the Gaels the first birds to nest in Ireland, then?  ::)

Typical Brit, ignorant of Irish history.  ::)

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 12:57:59 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 12:52:26 AM
QuoteAnd were the Gaels the first birds to nest in Ireland, then?  ::)

Typical Brit, ignorant of Irish history.  ::)
Is that an answer?  ???

Anyhow...

(http://images.borders.com.au/images/bau/97818495/9781849531320/0/0/plain/shit-happens-so-get-over-it.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Forever Green on November 02, 2011, 01:09:48 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8KJjoK39l9g/TohV6NPL-lI/AAAAAAAAIMk/Pes4hbV6bCI/s1600/nah%2521.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 01:10:51 AM
"Shit Happens - Get over it"

This from a hypocrite who was giving out about Martin McGuinness.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 01:10:51 AM
"Shit Happens - Get over it"

This from a hypocrite who was giving out about Martin McGuinness.
No hypocrisy on my part whatever.

My "Shit Happens" post was in response to your bringing up events of 400 years ago.

Whereas the activities of the likes of Martin McGuinness directly impinge upon all of our day-to-day lives.

I have been ever consistent in my stance that whilst we should not ignore History, neither should we be bound by it. In particular, we should not use the good deeds or achievements of our ancestors to excuse or mitigate our own misdeeds, or fail to acknowledge the good works of someone just because his/her distant ancestors may have been rogues.

So if you want to invoke Bloody Sunday, or I Bloody Friday, in furtherance of some point, then that is entirely legitimate (imo).

But if you are going to insist upon bringing up events from the long distant past like The Plantation of 1608, when we are meant to be debating Current Affairs*, then my response will continue to be "Shit Happens - Get Over It"  ::)


* - The clue is in the word "Current", by the way...

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 02, 2011, 02:29:13 PM
So what is the shelf life for an historic event and who gets to decide. There are a lot of people around the world fighting for Jesus or Allah, them boys are long gone.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 02:45:48 PM
QuoteMy "Shit Happens" post was in response to your bringing up events of 400 years ago.
Whereas the activities of the likes of Martin McGuinness directly impinge upon all of our day-to-day lives.

So events of 400 years ago do not impinge on our day- to- day lives today?

QuoteIn particular, we should not use the good deeds or achievements of our ancestors to excuse or mitigate our own misdeeds, or fail to acknowledge the good works of someone just because his/her distant ancestors may have been rogues.

I couldn't agree more. Nobody is responsible for their ancestors unless they choose to associate themselves with them. 

However, if their ancestors were evil and they continue to pursue their objectives then history does not belong solely in the past.


Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 02, 2011, 02:29:13 PMSo what is the shelf life for an historic event
For me, the Rule of Thumb should be Living Memory i.e. events which directly impinge (or impinged) upon people still around today.

I mean, it would be nice to be able to take into consideration the feelings of people who lived and died, say, a Century or more ago, but I don't think it's very practical...

Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 02, 2011, 02:29:13 PM... and who gets to decide.
Well if my own Rule is unacceptable, perhaps we should hold a "Dutch Auction" to decide? 

In which case, I'll start the search for a "Historical Sell-By Date" at 1189...

Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 02, 2011, 02:29:13 PMThere are a lot of people around the world fighting for Jesus or Allah, them boys are long gone.
Tbf, if Allah or Jesus turns up at the Polling Booth on Election Day, and pay their taxes on time, then they should have the same voting rights as everyone else.

But in the meantime, I think we should continue to crack down on this kind of shit:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056467/Charlie-Hebdo-French-magazines-offices-torched-mocks-Prophet-Mohammed.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 03:17:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 02:45:48 PM
QuoteMy "Shit Happens" post was in response to your bringing up events of 400 years ago.
Whereas the activities of the likes of Martin McGuinness directly impinge upon all of our day-to-day lives.

So events of 400 years ago do not impinge on our day- to- day lives today?

QuoteIn particular, we should not use the good deeds or achievements of our ancestors to excuse or mitigate our own misdeeds, or fail to acknowledge the good works of someone just because his/her distant ancestors may have been rogues.

I couldn't agree more. Nobody is responsible for their ancestors unless they choose to associate themselves with them. 

However, if their ancestors were evil and they continue to pursue their objectives then history does not belong solely in the past.
OK, OK, I accept I should have made it easier for you than "Shit Happens - Get Over It".

How about: "Some People did some Bad Things to Some Other People, like, 400 Years Ago. Isn't it Time YOU Got Over It?"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 02, 2011, 03:22:15 PM
We should probably set a date for decommissioning of the poppy badge. The sash and bowler hat is long overdue.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 03:37:19 PM
QuoteHow about: "Some People did some Bad Things to Some Other People, like, 400 Years Ago. Isn't it Time YOU Got Over It?"

Don't be obtuse. It is very simple, I couldn't care less what your ancestors did or what happened 400 years ago or 1400 years ago or whenever. I live in the present. I couldn't care less if your ancestors tried to make Ireland a vassal of Britain, if you do not share this objective in the present.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2011, 04:03:34 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 12:21:21 AM
Where do I say  that the Book of Kells was written in Irish. ;) :P :-*

A and then, when called on it, replies:
"I think you and that other buck will find that the learned classes that gave us the Book of Kells , Annals of the 4 Masters , Annals of Loch Cé etc etc would all have learned to spell the same way",
the inference is clear and unmistakeable: he (you) hadn't realised it was in Latin.  :D

I knew that was in bloody Latin.
I meant that the type of learned people who could produce things like that were more than capable of having a standardised spelling system.
But much better to jump to an oul  conclusion that tries to make a lad out to be a thick. ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 02, 2011, 04:44:46 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 01:10:51 AM
"Shit Happens - Get over it"

This from a hypocrite who was giving out about Martin McGuinness.
No hypocrisy on my part whatever.

My "Shit Happens" post was in response to your bringing up events of 400 years ago.

Whereas the activities of the likes of Martin McGuinness directly impinge upon all of our day-to-day lives.

I have been ever consistent in my stance that whilst we should not ignore History, neither should we be bound by it. In particular, we should not use the good deeds or achievements of our ancestors to excuse or mitigate our own misdeeds, or fail to acknowledge the good works of someone just because his/her distant ancestors may have been rogues.

So if you want to invoke Bloody Sunday, or I Bloody Friday, in furtherance of some point, then that is entirely legitimate (imo).

But if you are going to insist upon bringing up events from the long distant past like The Plantation of 1608, when we are meant to be debating Current Affairs*, then my response will continue to be "Shit Happens - Get Over It"  ::)


* - The clue is in the word "Current", by the way...
He is right, for a person fropm a community that continues to refer to the battle of the boyne, the siege of derry, the drowning of some planters in the bann in the 17th century and numerous other events from our past to want to keep the debate current is hypocrisy. History starts every second, yesterday is history. But since you are only interested in being a wum I have no doubt you will continue to rave on. But in my opinion history is relevaent as context and should only be viewed as such.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 06:39:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 03:37:19 PMIt is very simple, I couldn't care less what your ancestors did or what happened 400 years ago or 1400 years ago or whenever. I live in the present.
Says the man who asked: "So events of 400 years ago do not impinge on our day- to- day lives today?"

P.S. The answer to your question, btw, is "Only if you are determined that they should". On which point I would remind you that it is you  who was banging on about the Plantation... ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 06:58:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2011, 04:44:46 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 02, 2011, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 01:10:51 AM
"Shit Happens - Get over it"

This from a hypocrite who was giving out about Martin McGuinness.
No hypocrisy on my part whatever.

My "Shit Happens" post was in response to your bringing up events of 400 years ago.

Whereas the activities of the likes of Martin McGuinness directly impinge upon all of our day-to-day lives.

I have been ever consistent in my stance that whilst we should not ignore History, neither should we be bound by it. In particular, we should not use the good deeds or achievements of our ancestors to excuse or mitigate our own misdeeds, or fail to acknowledge the good works of someone just because his/her distant ancestors may have been rogues.

So if you want to invoke Bloody Sunday, or I Bloody Friday, in furtherance of some point, then that is entirely legitimate (imo).

But if you are going to insist upon bringing up events from the long distant past like The Plantation of 1608, when we are meant to be debating Current Affairs*, then my response will continue to be "Shit Happens - Get Over It"  ::)


* - The clue is in the word "Current", by the way...
He is right, for a person fropm a community that continues to refer to the battle of the boyne, the siege of derry, the drowning of some planters in the bann in the 17th century and numerous other events from our past to want to keep the debate current is hypocrisy.
And where have I ever referred to the Boyne/Derry/Bann etc to support an opinion or stance on present-day politics?

No, wait, I come from a "community"  which does so.  ::)

I must say, I almost admire you for the way you interchange so smoothly between the 'Politics of Mopery', the 'Politics of Whataboutery' and the 'Politics of Themmuns', as now. I daresay you're well practised in it...

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2011, 04:44:46 PM
History starts every second, yesterday is history. But since you are only interested in being a wum I have no doubt you will continue to rave on. But in my opinion history is relevaent as context and should only be viewed as such.
So anybody who proposes a different view to yours must be a wum, then?

Congratulations! You may now add 'The Politics of Playing the Man' to your CV...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 07:14:02 PM
Simple question, EG. Do you or do you not share the objective of 17th century planters of having Ulster part of the British empire?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 02, 2011, 07:24:34 PM
Katie Taylor wearing one on Sky Sports News this evening.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 02, 2011, 08:43:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 07:14:02 PM
Simple question, EG. Do you or do you not share the objective of 17th century planters of having Ulster part of the British empire?

Lay of the glue.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: cicfada on November 02, 2011, 08:51:24 PM
It is irritating to read the people complaining about the  wearing of the poppy on tv..it's not like they have  a choice now is it?? And that in my opinion is exactly what is wrong with the whole poppy thing!! I mean I am sure there are people of a nationalist bent who have  had family members who fought against the nazis and in world war 1 but who don't wear the poppy. Why?.....It was shoved down their throats time and time  again that they had to wear it!! So much for free will huh??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2011, 09:44:21 PM
I noticed the newscasters on UTV this evening didnt wear any of those British symbols.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 02, 2011, 09:55:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 02, 2011, 09:44:21 PM
I noticed the newscasters on UTV this evening didnt wear any of those British symbols.

Roy Keane and Martin Oneill have though
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2011, 09:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 02, 2011, 09:55:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 02, 2011, 09:44:21 PM
I noticed the newscasters on UTV this evening didnt wear any of those British symbols.

Roy Keane and Martin Oneill have though

Fair play to them, bound to not have given it a second thought too
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2011, 11:28:07 PM
(I've skipped through most of this thread.)

Who gives a toss who wears a poppy and who doesn't? Nobody should be compelled to wear one or not wear one. It's customary to pass no remarks about such things. If I saw another Irishman wearing one I'd assume that he has his reasons and leave it at that. You never know who had relatives who fought in the war.

At the same time if you were to wear every single coloured ribbon or plastic wristband that everyone pushed your way you'd walk about covered head to toe in the things. This one particular charity seems to get an inordinate amount of free publicity every year and it's a shame that a culture has built up around it that you're being "disrespectful" if you don't contribute to them. If people want to pay respects to the war dead they should be allowed to do so in their own way even if it means not donating to this particular charity or displaying a sign that they did.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 03, 2011, 07:55:13 AM
British Public Sector Pensions are supposedly some of the best in the world as well.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 10:21:47 AM
Yes and when my wife retires she'll get one of those great pensions!!  happy days ;D

So will a right few posters here. Imagine that  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 10:46:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 10:21:47 AM
Yes and when my wife retires she'll get one of those great pensions!!  happy days ;D

So will a right few posters here. Imagine that  ;)

Imagine if Ireland had defaulted on its banks debts and British banks had fallen as a result, the U.K. had to rape their pensions to save them. I wonder how many people on this board this would have affected. (I'm not worried, I will probably country hop again in a few years.)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:08:47 AM
Trio charged after poppy burning

Three teenagers have appeared in court after a photograph was posted on social networking site facebook showing a poppy being burnt.
The trio have been charged with incitement to hatred.

Two 17-year -olds and a 16-year-old, who is also charged with improper use of the public electronic communications network, appeared in court on Wednesday.

An investigation was launched after officers were made aware of the pictures.

Wonder would there have been the same response if it had been Easter lilies?
Or posters, flags, soccer and GAA tops on top of bonfires?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:08:47 AM
Trio charged after poppy burning

Three teenagers have appeared in court after a photograph was posted on social networking site facebook showing a poppy being burnt.
The trio have been charged with incitement to hatred.

Two 17-year -olds and a 16-year-old, who is also charged with improper use of the public electronic communications network, appeared in court on Wednesday.

An investigation was launched after officers were made aware of the pictures.

Wonder would there have been the same response if it had been Easter lilies?
Or posters, flags, soccer and GAA tops on top of bonfires?

All over the U.K. they will be burning effigies up and down the country on saturday  >:(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Bingo on November 03, 2011, 11:36:43 AM
So this is were everyone is hanging out now that the Aras race is over  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:08:47 AM
Trio charged after poppy burning

Three teenagers have appeared in court after a photograph was posted on social networking site facebook showing a poppy being burnt.
The trio have been charged with incitement to hatred.

Two 17-year -olds and a 16-year-old, who is also charged with improper use of the public electronic communications network, appeared in court on Wednesday.

An investigation was launched after officers were made aware of the pictures.

Wonder would there have been the same response if it had been Easter lilies?
Or posters, flags, soccer and GAA tops on top of bonfires?

All over the U.K. they will be burning effigies up and down the country on saturday  >:(

And how many of them will have to suffer a criminal record or the stigma of a court appearence!

Good to see the PSNI are out catching the "real" criminals though.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 11:47:01 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:08:47 AM
Trio charged after poppy burning

Three teenagers have appeared in court after a photograph was posted on social networking site facebook showing a poppy being burnt.
The trio have been charged with incitement to hatred.

Two 17-year -olds and a 16-year-old, who is also charged with improper use of the public electronic communications network, appeared in court on Wednesday.

An investigation was launched after officers were made aware of the pictures.

Wonder would there have been the same response if it had been Easter lilies?
Or posters, flags, soccer and GAA tops on top of bonfires?

All over the U.K. they will be burning effigies up and down the country on saturday  >:(

And how many of them will have to suffer a criminal record or the stigma of a court appearence!

Good to see the PSNI are out catching the "real" criminals though.
In fairnes to the Police a complaint was made by the British Legion and they are obliged to investigate.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:56:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 11:47:01 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:08:47 AM
Trio charged after poppy burning

Three teenagers have appeared in court after a photograph was posted on social networking site facebook showing a poppy being burnt.
The trio have been charged with incitement to hatred.

Two 17-year -olds and a 16-year-old, who is also charged with improper use of the public electronic communications network, appeared in court on Wednesday.

An investigation was launched after officers were made aware of the pictures.

Wonder would there have been the same response if it had been Easter lilies?
Or posters, flags, soccer and GAA tops on top of bonfires?

All over the U.K. they will be burning effigies up and down the country on saturday  >:(

And how many of them will have to suffer a criminal record or the stigma of a court appearence!

Good to see the PSNI are out catching the "real" criminals though.
In fairnes to the Police a complaint was made by the British Legion and they are obliged to investigate.

Granted.
But arrested and criminal charges!!!!!

Slightly more serious incidents need investagating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15565521

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15539656

http://www.u.tv/News/Two-elderly-NI-women-attacked-in-their-homes/5645c449-8fb8-4d88-a4a8-7e7af6775ec2

http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=134470

All incidents within the last week and a bit.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 12:57:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2011, 07:14:02 PMSimple question, EG. Do you or do you not share the objective of 17th century planters of having Ulster part of the British empire?
That is not a "simple" question, rather it is a leading question. As such, it is not so different from asking eg a committed EU integrationist whether he shares the objective of Napoleon...

Anyhow, as far as I can tell, my Planter ancestors came from the ordinary folk who moved from Scotland to Ireland, in search of work, land and a better life for their family etc. And as Scots and (I assume) Presbyterians), they would also have received welcome refuge from discrimination by the English and Anglicanism etc. As such, they were little different from eg the Pilgrim Fathers who left Britain a decade later, to colonise what is now the United States.

Whether they were entitled to do so is a moot point, since the Law of Conquest etc was markedly different from that which governs such matters today. More importantly, whether my ancestors were big, bad Planters, or yours poor oppressed Gaels, it makes no difference to me as to how you and I should get along, .

For whilst I happen to hold the same goal of NI being British, as the Planters had for Ulster, I differ completely as to the means. That is, whereas they wanted to make Ulster British by Colonisation, I want to keep NI British by strictly Democratic means. And in the present, those means are to be found in the Good Friday Agreement - an agreement freely and democratically entered into by descendants of both Planter and Gael.

Therefore, having answered your question, I might ask you whether you agree with the precepts of the GFA as a means of settling differences, or whether you refer back to the methods of the 17th Century, such as Colonisation and Rebellion? After all, you continually keep throwing those times into the debate, as eg when you asked: "So events of 400 years ago do not impinge on our day- to- day lives today?"

P.S. If we were to accept your thesis that the events of 1608 inevitably influence the events of 2011 etc, then are we not morally-bound to put right the wrongs of that earlier period? Indeed if we are to take your "principles" to their logical conclusion, should we not seek to reverse the Plantation altogether, by sending their descendants back whence they came? I have to say, that would not be such a hardship for me personally, but I daresay Ulster folk with such impeccably Planter names as eg Adams or Hume might have something to say about that... ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 01:05:02 PM
Quote from: cicfada on November 02, 2011, 08:51:24 PM
It is irritating to read the people complaining about the  wearing of the poppy on tv..it's not like they have  a choice now is it?? And that in my opinion is exactly what is wrong with the whole poppy thing!! I mean I am sure there are people of a nationalist bent who have  had family members who fought against the nazis and in world war 1 but who don't wear the poppy. Why?.....It was shoved down their throats time and time  again that they had to wear it!! So much for free will huh??
Whilst I buy a Poppy myself every year, I agree that it should not be compulsory.

That said, whilst Broadcasters etc seemed (formally or informally?) to have adopted such a policy around a decade ago, I sense that this last year or two the policy seems to have been dropped, since from what I can see, Poppy wearing amongst TV presenters etc is no longer universal.

Imo this is a good thing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 03, 2011, 01:08:26 PM
'persecuted and 'ordinary folk' planters who no doubt ousted natives from their own land - so the hypocrisy started a long time back then.
presumably you were too young to march with the civil rights folk about the opression and persecution upon the innocent catholic/Irish/working class/nationalists etc - but no doubt your parents and their families marched and actively opposed this establishment lead disgrace - if not then they were uphholding the establishment ethos and therefore upholding the planter ideaology !


see you comment about 'playing the man' to someone else on the prev page - somewhat ironic, though you prob admit to being a repeat offender yourself by now (in which case this isnt a problem).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 03, 2011, 01:09:32 PM
jeez if people want to buy and wear a fecking poppy - so what.
OK some fcukwits will see this as a chance to triumphalise, but prob about time that we....
....
,,,,
'moved on' perhaps - as is the oft used phrase these days !!  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 01:10:35 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 11:33:40 AMAll over the U.K. they will be burning effigies up and down the country on saturday  >:(

I know, shocking, isn't it  ;)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/02/article-2056559-0EA292B300000578-969_634x974.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2056559/Mario-Balotelli-effigy-Bonfire-Night.html
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 01:16:22 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:56:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 11:47:01 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:08:47 AM
Trio charged after poppy burning

Three teenagers have appeared in court after a photograph was posted on social networking site facebook showing a poppy being burnt.
The trio have been charged with incitement to hatred.

Two 17-year -olds and a 16-year-old, who is also charged with improper use of the public electronic communications network, appeared in court on Wednesday.

An investigation was launched after officers were made aware of the pictures.

Wonder would there have been the same response if it had been Easter lilies?
Or posters, flags, soccer and GAA tops on top of bonfires?

All over the U.K. they will be burning effigies up and down the country on saturday  >:(

And how many of them will have to suffer a criminal record or the stigma of a court appearence!

Good to see the PSNI are out catching the "real" criminals though.
In fairnes to the Police a complaint was made by the British Legion and they are obliged to investigate.

Granted.
But arrested and criminal charges!!!!!

Slightly more serious incidents need investagating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15565521

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15539656

http://www.u.tv/News/Two-elderly-NI-women-attacked-in-their-homes/5645c449-8fb8-4d88-a4a8-7e7af6775ec2

http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=134470

All incidents within the last week and a bit.
No would deny that such crimes as you cite are more serious than the Poppy Burning. Then again, they are being investigated, too.

Of course, if you were to argue that it is eg a waste of police resources to follow-up this incident, even when a complaint is made, then we would find ourselves back in the day when the Police themselves decided which crimes to investigate, and which to let quietly drop.

And no doubt you complained about that, too... ::)

Late Edit: You do appreciate that it will not have been the PSNI who decided to bring charges, but the PPS?  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:18:41 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 01:10:35 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 11:33:40 AMAll over the U.K. they will be burning effigies up and down the country on saturday  >:(

I know, shocking, isn't it  ;)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/02/article-2056559-0EA292B300000578-969_634x974.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2056559/Mario-Balotelli-effigy-Bonfire-Night.html

How progressive, a black man  :o
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:21:28 PM
Evil Genius - Do you actully not see anything wrong with the whole Guy Fawkes night in the U.K.?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 01:26:31 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:18:41 PMHow progressive, a black man  :o
Oh ffs!

When someone supplies a link to a story, you might be advised to read it before replying:

"Edenbridge Bonfire Society picked Balotelli for their annual display after he hit the headlines last month.

The Italian's house was set on fire after his friends let off fireworks in the bathroom of his Cheshire mansion.

Balotelli, who denied any involvement, then fronted a firework-safety campaign at the club's Carrington training ground.

He is the latest sports star to go up in flames at Edenbridge - with Wayne Rooney the star of 2010. Each year the group pick a celebrity who has been in the news."


I suppose Wayne Rooney was chosen for being a Muslim or something... ::)

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:35:04 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 01:26:31 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:18:41 PMHow progressive, a black man  :o
Oh ffs!

When someone supplies a link to a story, you might be advised to read it before replying:

"Edenbridge Bonfire Society picked Balotelli for their annual display after he hit the headlines last month.

The Italian's house was set on fire after his friends let off fireworks in the bathroom of his Cheshire mansion.

Balotelli, who denied any involvement, then fronted a firework-safety campaign at the club's Carrington training ground.

He is the latest sports star to go up in flames at Edenbridge - with Wayne Rooney the star of 2010. Each year the group pick a celebrity who has been in the news."


I suppose Wayne Rooney was chosen for being a Muslim or something... ::)

Missed the link. Well Rooney is Irish-stock Scouse Catholic, so he probably fits the bill just right. Yes I know, I was watching the match. The whole thing is based in sectarian hatred, some still see it that way, while most are happy to ignore its true origins. Of course this a country that has no problem with a statue of Oliver Cromwell sitting outside their parliament. Its also a country that let a group of sectarian hoodlums march through areas they are not wanted just to show the locals who are the boss. A country that until a few days ago would not allow Catholics to become head of state or give women a fair chance to achieve that position. It still restricts 99.99999% of its population from ever becoming head of their own state.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 01:40:12 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:21:28 PM
Evil Genius - Do you actully not see anything wrong with the whole Guy Fawkes night in the U.K.?

I suppose you'll want the Monument in London pulled down as well...

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/4516316520_5de1c4c036_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:42:55 PM
Perhaps if you show the full picture Deiseach rather than that shot, I may be able to answer your question.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 01:48:36 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 01:16:22 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:56:24 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 11:47:01 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 03, 2011, 11:08:47 AM
Trio charged after poppy burning

Three teenagers have appeared in court after a photograph was posted on social networking site facebook showing a poppy being burnt.
The trio have been charged with incitement to hatred.

Two 17-year -olds and a 16-year-old, who is also charged with improper use of the public electronic communications network, appeared in court on Wednesday.

An investigation was launched after officers were made aware of the pictures.

Wonder would there have been the same response if it had been Easter lilies?
Or posters, flags, soccer and GAA tops on top of bonfires?

All over the U.K. they will be burning effigies up and down the country on saturday  >:(

And how many of them will have to suffer a criminal record or the stigma of a court appearence!

Good to see the PSNI are out catching the "real" criminals though.
In fairnes to the Police a complaint was made by the British Legion and they are obliged to investigate.

Granted.
But arrested and criminal charges!!!!!

Slightly more serious incidents need investagating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15565521

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15539656

http://www.u.tv/News/Two-elderly-NI-women-attacked-in-their-homes/5645c449-8fb8-4d88-a4a8-7e7af6775ec2

http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=134470

All incidents within the last week and a bit.
No would deny that such crimes as you cite are more serious than the Poppy Burning. Then again, they are being investigated, too.

Of course, if you were to argue that it is eg a waste of police resources to follow-up this incident, even when a complaint is made, then we would find ourselves back in the day when the Police themselves decided which crimes to investigate, and which to let quietly drop.

And no doubt you complained about that, too... ::)

Which I didn't argue.
Lets hope that the other cases get the PROMPT response from the PSNI that the case involving the 3 teenagers recieved.
It's good to see that you admit that the RUC were a corrupt self servicing "police" force.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:52:57 PM
May I suggest one of these lads EG for there next bonfire.

(http://www.quotecollection.com/author-images/oliver-cromwell-2.jpg)
(http://www.edinburghlol234.com/images/kw.jpg)
(http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/henrytudor.jpg)
(http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2011/10/winston-churchill_1202859c.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Elizabeth_I_(Armada_Portrait).jpg/300px-Elizabeth_I_(Armada_Portrait).jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Air_Chief_Marshal_Sir_Arthur_Harris.jpg/200px-Air_Chief_Marshal_Sir_Arthur_Harris.jpg)

I thought not.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 03, 2011, 01:58:12 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:35:04 PMA country that until a few days ago would not allow Catholics to become head of state

As far as I know, Catholics still need not apply for the job of head of state of the UK.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 01:59:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:42:55 PM
Perhaps if you show the full picture Deiseach rather than that shot, I may be able to answer your question.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3497/3318309187_038c7e33c6_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 02:01:49 PM
Lads the Guy Fawkes thing is a non issue. Whilst Fawkes was a catholic trying to blow up parliament the English approach to religion has always been a little bit more complicated than our own. Although legally the catholic religion was suppressed this did not stop catholic lords and earls being at the heart of government. But anyway all significance has been forgotton as people now see it as a night to enjoy just like halloween with no political or religious baggage. In relation to the poppy, it is undoubtedly in a good cause, but the Irish view of it has been somewhat skewed by our experience of their army, not withstanding that many of us had relatives killed in that uniform. But biggest disservice to the poppy in NI has been none by unionists insisting that the y ram it down nationalist throats as a political symbol. The hysteria the Poundland case gave rise to is proof of this. The sensible uniform code which prevents the wearing of badges and embloms has been binned, I look forwrd to them all wearing easter lilies and shamrock when the time comes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:05:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 02:01:49 PM
Lads the Guy Fawkes thing is a non issue. Whilst Fawkes was a catholic trying to blow up parliament the English approach to religion has always been a little bit more complicated than our own. Although legally the catholic religion was suppressed this did not stop catholic lords and earls being at the heart of government. But anyway all significance has been forgotton as people now see it as a night to enjoy just like halloween with no political or religious baggage. In relation to the poppy, it is undoubtedly in a good cause, but the Irish view of it has been somewhat skewed by our experience of their army, not withstanding that many of us had relatives killed in that uniform. But biggest disservice to the poppy in NI has been none by unionists insisting that the y ram it down nationalist throats as a political symbol. The hysteria the Poundland case gave rise to is proof of this. The sensible uniform code which prevents the wearing of badges and embloms has been binned, I look forwrd to them all wearing easter lilies and shamrock when the time comes.

+1. I wonder how many Catholics in England huddle indoors on the 5th of November for fear of being chucked on a bonfire
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:16:13 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:05:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 02:01:49 PM
Lads the Guy Fawkes thing is a non issue. Whilst Fawkes was a catholic trying to blow up parliament the English approach to religion has always been a little bit more complicated than our own. Although legally the catholic religion was suppressed this did not stop catholic lords and earls being at the heart of government. But anyway all significance has been forgotton as people now see it as a night to enjoy just like halloween with no political or religious baggage. In relation to the poppy, it is undoubtedly in a good cause, but the Irish view of it has been somewhat skewed by our experience of their army, not withstanding that many of us had relatives killed in that uniform. But biggest disservice to the poppy in NI has been none by unionists insisting that the y ram it down nationalist throats as a political symbol. The hysteria the Poundland case gave rise to is proof of this. The sensible uniform code which prevents the wearing of badges and embloms has been binned, I look forwrd to them all wearing easter lilies and shamrock when the time comes.

+1. I wonder how many Catholics in England huddle indoors on the 5th of November for fear of being chucked on a bonfire

Not sure, but this Atheist in England finds it a horrible event.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:16:13 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:05:32 PM+1. I wonder how many Catholics in England huddle indoors on the 5th of November for fear of being chucked on a bonfire

Not sure, but this Atheist in England finds it a horrible event.

So you avoid fireworks displays? Each to their own, but you're missing a great show
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:26:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:16:13 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:05:32 PM+1. I wonder how many Catholics in England huddle indoors on the 5th of November for fear of being chucked on a bonfire

Not sure, but this Atheist in England finds it a horrible event.

So you avoid fireworks displays? Each to their own, but you're missing a great show

Ya my mates all invited me out to Sefton Park for saturday night fireworks. A big group of them going. I will be staying in that night, like I did last year (blinds shut and music up loud to drown out the fireworks).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:33:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:26:26 PM
Ya my mates all invited me out to Sefton Park for saturday night fireworks. A big group of them going. I will be staying in that night, like I did last year (blinds shut and music up loud to drown out the fireworks).

Never fear, I'll be in Sefton Park enjoying the display enough for two people
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:33:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:26:26 PM
Ya my mates all invited me out to Sefton Park for saturday night fireworks. A big group of them going. I will be staying in that night, like I did last year (blinds shut and music up loud to drown out the fireworks).

Never fear, I'll be in Sefton Park enjoying the display enough for two people

Sure you might as well wear a second poppy too so   ;)  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:54:52 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:33:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:26:26 PM
Ya my mates all invited me out to Sefton Park for saturday night fireworks. A big group of them going. I will be staying in that night, like I did last year (blinds shut and music up loud to drown out the fireworks).

Never fear, I'll be in Sefton Park enjoying the display enough for two people

Sure you might as well wear a second poppy too so   ;)  :D

Ad hominem attacks. Ho hum.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 03:02:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:54:52 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 02:33:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 02:26:26 PM
Ya my mates all invited me out to Sefton Park for saturday night fireworks. A big group of them going. I will be staying in that night, like I did last year (blinds shut and music up loud to drown out the fireworks).

Never fear, I'll be in Sefton Park enjoying the display enough for two people

Sure you might as well wear a second poppy too so   ;)  :D

Ad hominem attacks. Ho hum.

Not at all, I presume you where implying you could enjoy the fireworks on my behalf despite it being against my will. So you might as well wear my poppy too, coz I certainly will never wear one. People being forced or peer-presured into wearing poppies seems to be the trend.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 03:07:43 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 03:02:49 PM
Not at all, I presume you where implying you could enjoy the fireworks on my behalf despite it being against my will. So you might as well wear my poppy too, coz I certainly will never wear one. People being forced or peer-presured into wearing poppies seems to be the trend.

You've decided I wear a poppy because I said something you disgree with. As I said, ad hominem
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:18:41 PMHow progressive, a black man  :o
Oh ffs!

When someone supplies a link to a story, you might be advised to read it before replying:

"Edenbridge Bonfire Society picked Balotelli for their annual display after he hit the headlines last month.

The Italian's house was set on fire after his friends let off fireworks in the bathroom of his Cheshire mansion.

Balotelli, who denied any involvement, then fronted a firework-safety campaign at the club's Carrington training ground.

He is the latest sports star to go up in flames at Edenbridge - with Wayne Rooney the star of 2010. Each year the group pick a celebrity who has been in the news."


I suppose Wayne Rooney was chosen for being a Muslim or something... ::)

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 03:11:59 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 03:07:43 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 03:02:49 PM
Not at all, I presume you where implying you could enjoy the fireworks on my behalf despite it being against my will. So you might as well wear my poppy too, coz I certainly will never wear one. People being forced or peer-presured into wearing poppies seems to be the trend.

You've decided I wear a poppy because I said something you disgree with. As I said, ad hominem

Your comment was in the spirit of the peer-pressure/forcing of poppies to be worn. This is the Poppy thread afterall. Basically don't bother enjoying the fireworks on my behalf.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 03:13:38 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:18:41 PMHow progressive, a black man  :o
Oh ffs!

When someone supplies a link to a story, you might be advised to read it before replying:

"Edenbridge Bonfire Society picked Balotelli for their annual display after he hit the headlines last month.

The Italian's house was set on fire after his friends let off fireworks in the bathroom of his Cheshire mansion.

Balotelli, who denied any involvement, then fronted a firework-safety campaign at the club's Carrington training ground.

He is the latest sports star to go up in flames at Edenbridge - with Wayne Rooney the star of 2010. Each year the group pick a celebrity who has been in the news."


I suppose Wayne Rooney was chosen for being a Muslim or something... ::)

You have reposted the exact same post twice. Did you expect a different answer this time.

You do realise the blackman comment was tongue in cheek, in case that was not obvious.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 03, 2011, 03:35:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 01:21:28 PMEvil Genius - Do you actully not see anything wrong with the whole Guy Fawkes night in the U.K.?
I suppose in theory it is distasteful, but in practice, I simply cannot get worked up by kids collecting "A Penny for the Guy" so as to buy fireworks and have a bonfire etc.

This is because the "Guy" in question died over 400 years ago and 99%+ of the kids have no real idea who he was, never mind hold an opinion on whether he was a "Martyr persecuted for his Catholic Faith", or a "would-be Mass Murderer", who had plotted to kill hundreds of his fellow countrymen, including many of his co-religionists etc.

Above all, it's not as if these "celebrations" are officially sanctioned, or promoted/financed by the Government, therefore it is open to all to participate or shun, as each individual thinks fit.

And in any case, this particular poster is too busy protesting about Halloween and its origins in Witchcraft, Black Magic and Heresy etc, to have time to go out and picket the Boney in my local Park... ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Enough on November 03, 2011, 04:21:07 PM
Wear a poppy support a murderer!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 03, 2011, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: Enough on November 03, 2011, 04:21:07 PM
Wear a poppy support a murderer!

What a load of bollocks!!!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 04:32:04 PM
Quote from: Enough on November 03, 2011, 04:21:07 PM
Wear a poppy support a murderer!
Would that be one trying to kill a ref?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 4father on November 03, 2011, 04:36:02 PM
What I dislike about the whole poppy thing is that it is a cynical way of bringing about justification and morality to an army that have been the shame of our earth.  It gives moral justification to the Iraq and Afghan invasion and the crimes committed there in the micro by soldiers and in the macro by the political war criminals. 

That is the trick in the poppy - the invading soldier who played his/her part in massacres, murder and the other pieces of political dirty work dies and is commemorated for doing his part for his country.  What part of his country was he protecting in a country thousands of miles away?  It brings justification to all of the actions of the British Government in war when it is crime.  Disgusting really.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 03, 2011, 05:36:09 PM
What I find more strange is that people go on about Irish people needing to wear a poppy. The world wars, while many Irish did partake in the 1st particularly, they are not culturally prevalent in our society. Neither is militarism generally. We are proud of our peace keeping work in Lebanon but the parading, the cenotaphs and the flag waving are not things I would associate with our society.

Having lived in England for a number of years now, its much different over here. Every town has its memorial. The RAF flying shows attract large numbers and documentaries about the wars run 24/7 on the Military History channel.

As for poppy's and giving money to soldiers charities. I don't. If they want money maybe they should ask Tony Blair.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 05:45:10 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2011, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: Enough on November 03, 2011, 04:21:07 PM
Wear a poppy support a murderer!

What a load of bollocks!!!!

Please tell us what you really think
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2011, 05:54:54 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 03, 2011, 05:36:09 PM
What I find more strange is that people go on about Irish people needing to wear a poppy. The world wars, while many Irish did partake in the 1st particularly, they are not culturally prevalent in our society. Neither is militarism generally. We are proud of our peace keeping work in Lebanon but the parading, the cenotaphs and the flag waving are not things I would associate with our society.

Having lived in England for a number of years now, its much different over here. Every town has its memorial. The RAF flying shows attract large numbers and documentaries about the wars run 24/7 on the Military History channel.

As for poppy's and giving money to soldiers charities. I don't. If they want money maybe they should ask Tony Blair.

Ya I always knew they where a martial people but in reality it is much more than I expected.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 05:57:49 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 04:32:04 PM
Quote from: Enough on November 03, 2011, 04:21:07 PM
Wear a poppy support a murderer!
Would that be one trying to kill a ref?
Enough, thanks for the PM calling me a narrow minded twerp. That's actually funny coming from some one who posts what you did regarding poppies. No lover of poppies am I or what unionists have made them into. But in the current dispensation if people wish to express their identity and support for soldiers so be it. As long as they don't ram it down my throat. I have noted from the comments you have left elsewhere on Ray Mathews that you have a particularly twisted view of the world. If you want to post insults to people have the balls to do it on the open forum instead of private messages.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 06:04:38 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 03, 2011, 05:36:09 PM
Having lived in England for a number of years now, its much different over here. Every town has its memorial. The RAF flying shows attract large numbers and documentaries about the wars run 24/7 on the Military History channel.

What on earth do you expect on the Military History channel? Porn?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 06:31:09 PM
Why after all these years are we still hung up on flags and Poppy's? Boring boring. Who cares no ones is ramming anything down my throat a flag carries no fear nor some fella wearing a poppy for two months. Christ if he wanted to wear it for life i couldn't give a shite. What impact does it have on your life? I doubt very much it.

But we will moan about it every year. Do people on this site go to rallies remembering those who died during the troubles? Are there wee bracelets or Lillies worn every year for these things? (ones that pin and the ones that stick ;D)

That is the trick in the poppy - the invading soldier who played his/her part in massacres, murder and the other pieces of political dirty work dies and is commemorated for doing his part for his country.

Do you mean any war? Are you against any war that has happened or continuing to happen?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 4father on November 03, 2011, 06:46:41 PM
You mightn't care about them but when they are used cynically to drive on support for people destroying others' lives in other countries it matters to me.  Maybe not to you but that's your choice to get annoyed about it or not.  Am I being blown up by an attacking Apache helicopter? No.  Are others currently under that threat in other countries?  Yes.  Choose to be apathetic if you want to but don't be coming on here patronising people because they care about a certain issue.

Do I go to rallies commemorating people that died here?  Yes.  Do i wear a Lilly? Yes, only on Easter Sunday.  (a wee pin on one does me but whether they pin on or stick on is irrelevant now. 

I am against occupying forces invading other peoples' countries (here, Iraq, Afghanistan or wherever).  I am for those that resist that occupation all over the world.  Whether you like it or not, the poppy is used to gather support for 'troops' involved in those occupations and the cynical ploy in all of this is that that support in turn is produced and developed to support the occupiers deeds.  I am referring to the Brits of course but the same could be said for the American army, the Israeli army etc.  I hate war by the way, its horrific.

I wear my Lilly to commemorate people who died resisting the occupiers.

By the way, not every British soldier is a bad person.  Those who fought during WW1 and WW2 genuinely thought that they were doing their country a service or fighting against an horrific ideology (Fascism) but these people were used as pawns for criminal politicians.  Irish people fought in the war to feed their families and some because they were lied to by politicians in that their participation would bring about Home Rule.  I have no problem with their lives being commemorated but not when its used cynically to garner support for coontemporary colonialism. 

Where do you stand on the occupations?  Or do you care?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: 4father on November 03, 2011, 06:46:41 PM
You mightn't care about them but when they are used cynically to drive on support for people destroying others' lives in other countries it matters to me.  Maybe not to you but that's your choice to get annoyed about it or not.  Am I being blown up by an attacking Apache helicopter? No.  Are others currently under that threat in other countries?  Yes.  Choose to be apathetic if you want to but don't be coming on here patronising people because they care about a certain issue.

Do I go to rallies commemorating people that died here?  Yes.  Do i wear a Lilly? Yes, only on Easter Sunday.  (a wee pin on one does me but whether they pin on or stick on is irrelevant now. 

I am against occupying forces invading other peoples' countries (here, Iraq, Afghanistan or wherever).  I am for those that resist that occupation all over the world.  Whether you like it or not, the poppy is used to gather support for 'troops' involved in those occupations.  I am referring to the Brits of course but the same could be said for the American army, the Israeli army etc. I hate war by the way, its horrific.

Seems strange that you hate war but have no problem with the war that has destroyed so many lives here!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 4father on November 03, 2011, 06:59:01 PM
By the way, I edited my last post, there was a few questions for you that you may have missed.  I have a major problem with the war that destroyed so many lives here.  The protagonists are the same people that are destroying the rest of the world. 

Are you somehow implying that I think war is great because I commemorate former comrades and Ireland's patriots? 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 03, 2011, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 05:45:10 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2011, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: Enough on November 03, 2011, 04:21:07 PM
Wear a poppy support a murderer!

What a load of bollocks!!!!

Please tell us what you really think

Believe it or not the Brits have the right to honour their dead, I have friends over here from Armagh that wear their poppies with pride, they honour the wife's father who fought in the British army in WW2, he fought with distinction and he died three years ago. I have no problem with people who respectfully wear their poppy and who dont harp on about those who don't.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 07:26:10 PM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2011, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: deiseach on June 02, 1970, 08:37:03 PM

Please tell us what you really think

Believe it or not the Brits have the right to honour their dead, I have friends over here from Armagh that wear their poppies with pride, they honour the wife's father who fought in the British army in WW2, he fought with distinction and he died three years ago. I have no problem with people who respectfully wear their poppy and who dont harp on about those who don't.

I was being flippant. You're right, particularly the 'load of bollocks' part
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 07:35:19 PM
Did Germany want peace by occupying those countries? Could they have maybe been talked out of it? I've missed that part during history lesson.

Many a corner boy was thrust into the war here by people unwilling to get their hands dirty or caught for that matter, were they pawns used by people?

Are we are better placed now than we were in the 70's during the troubles? We are still governed by London but we have a voice in how we run things (albeit a small one) If we move into a republic (not that they want us) will you be happier

I've a family to look after, their lives are far more important to me than this hate filled country. So I don't have a view on it, know too many families that have lost dear ones for nothing
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 03, 2011, 07:52:29 PM
QuoteAre we are better placed now than we were in the 70's during the troubles? We are still governed by London but we have a voice in how we run things (albeit a small one)

Fair enough. But this week with the various forms of poppy carry on it is clear how just how little progress has been made. Parity of esteem, my aЯse!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 4father on November 03, 2011, 07:54:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 07:35:19 PM
Did Germany want peace by occupying those countries? Could they have maybe been talked out of it? I've missed that part during history lesson.

Many a corner boy was thrust into the war here by people unwilling to get their hands dirty or caught for that matter, were they prawns used by people?

Are we are better placed now than we were in the 70's during the troubles? We are still governed by London but we have a voice in how we run things (albeit a small one) If we move into a republic (not that they want us) will you be happier

I've a family to look after, their lives are far more important to me than this hate filled country. So I don't have a view on it, know too many families that have lost dear ones for nothing

Yep, I was a 'corner boy' turned revolutionary.  Did 7 years in the Kesh for being part of what was a genuine revolution.  The difference with colonial army's is that many of them are mercenaries, conscripts or people with no future at all so they join the army for a job or to play real Call of Duty.  Genuine revolutionaries on the other hand do things out of love, love for their people.  Just my outlook as a 'corner boy' whether you agree or not.  I'd also a family.  Did that make me a bad person?  Maybe I'm a bit older than you just (I don't know if i am by the way), maybe my family and my neighbours were more victims of the British army than your family or neighbours were, I don't know.

While I believe that Nationalists are more confident and assertive about their political views now than in the 70s, nothing has changed much in terms of the revolution.  The revolution died in my opinion not long after the hunger strikes.  If you are a fenian, you still face the same inequalities that fenians did in the 70s (hard to believe but true) in terms of education, employment, business etc.  Our 'small' voice is indeed that, a small insignificant voice governed by the treasury of Whitehall.  And no, I wouldn't be happier if we just move into the republic.  To quote a hero of mine and a visionary whose words are as relevant today as they were when he was active: "If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords..." but that's a different debate. 

I don't mind if you are apathetic, you are not unlike lots of other people but some of us are political.  This is where you and I would probably disagree until the end of time.  I care very much about my family and I feed them etc just like you but I also care about families who are victims of colonialism and capitalism here and around the world. 

It seems Thatcher's message has worked on some Irish people but thank god there are enough people that it will never work on.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 03, 2011, 07:55:56 PM
Lillies? Prawns?

Jesus Christ!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 03, 2011, 08:01:37 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 03, 2011, 07:55:56 PM
Lillies? Prawns?

Jesus Christ!
I was prepared to let "prawn" go unmentioned. You have no heart.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 08:15:43 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 03, 2011, 08:01:37 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 03, 2011, 07:55:56 PM
Lillies? Prawns?

Jesus Christ!
I was prepared to let "prawn" go unmentioned. You have no heart.

Predictive text on my phone FFS  :D :D

Anyway back on the computer. You my have that view 4father and I'm not here to knock your views. I know a lot of revolutionaries who have various views on this.

Living on the Falls road during the troubles, I seen it first hand, neighbours killed, family shot at and friends who lost love ones. there were periods were the street was being raided daily.

As i said before there were many a corner boy who i went to school with, who joined for different reasons to the one you did.

You being older than me means?

But people wearing poppy's Should not annoy you or anyone else for that matter
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 4father on November 03, 2011, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 08:15:43 PM
You being older than me means?

I wasn't doing the, "i'm older than you, i know better".  I don't know what age you are (i've an idea now), I was just trying to put it into perspective that I may have grew up in a different era from you, that's all.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 08:15:43 PM
But people wearing poppy's Should not annoy you or anyone else for that matter

I didn't write that people wearing poppy's annoyed me anywhere.  It doesn't.  I wrote what I disliked about Poppy's.  I completely understand people wearing them.  But if you don't mind, i'll decide what annoys me and what doesn't.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2011, 09:22:12 PM
Quote from: 4father on November 03, 2011, 09:00:14 PM
But people wearing poppy's Should not annoy you or anyone else for that matter

I didn't write that people wearing poppy's annoyed me anywhere.  It doesn't.  I wrote what I disliked about Poppy's.  I completely understand people wearing them.  But if you don't mind, i'll decide what annoys me and what doesn't.
[/quote]
Some murderin of apostrophes going on. >:(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 4father on November 03, 2011, 09:37:51 PM
Sorry, that wasn't taught in the Kesh too well. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 09:41:46 PM
Quote from: 4father on November 03, 2011, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 08:15:43 PM
You being older than me means?

I wasn't doing the, "i'm older than you, i know better".  I don't know what age you are (i've an idea now), I was just trying to put it into perspective that I may have grew up in a different era from you, that's all.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2011, 08:15:43 PM
But people wearing poppy's Should not annoy you or anyone else for that matter

I didn't write that people wearing poppy's annoyed me anywhere.  It doesn't.  I wrote what I disliked about Poppy's.  I completely understand people wearing them.  But if you don't mind, i'll decide what annoys me and what doesn't.

Of course nobody will ever be happy about what they wear. Be it a poppy or a Lilly. I choose to wear none.

The topic was poppy watch and it was evident that most on here wear annoyed at them
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 04, 2011, 11:11:24 AM
I'm delighted to see our good friend 5ive Times is still alive and kicking
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 04, 2011, 02:19:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2011, 06:04:38 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 03, 2011, 05:36:09 PM
Having lived in England for a number of years now, its much different over here. Every town has its memorial. The RAF flying shows attract large numbers and documentaries about the wars run 24/7 on the Military History channel.

What on earth do you expect on the Military History channel? Porn?


That wasn't my point. Its more that fact that such a channel exists and that it actually has an audience.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fitzroyalty on November 04, 2011, 04:11:47 PM
Although I'm not dying about the poppy I can't stand people that don't wear it in the right position!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 04, 2011, 04:25:33 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 04, 2011, 11:11:24 AM
I'm delighted to see our good friend 5ive Times is still alive and kicking
thought Five times was an ok chap myself.
like a lot on here there are people that you will fall out with and just not get on with.
A lot of times you regret that.
Its very easy to fall out when communication is written and can be misinterpreted.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 05, 2011, 09:39:01 PM
Robert fisk on the poppy in todays UK indo.

I turned on the television in my Damascus hotel roomtowitness a dreary sight: all the boys and girls of BBC World wearing their little poppies again.

Bright red they were, with that particularly silly greenleafout of the top – it was never part of the original Lady Haig appeal – and not one dared to appear on screen without it. Do these pathetic men and women know how they mock the dead? I trust that Jon Snowhas maintained hisdignityby not wearing it.

Now I've mentioned my Dad too many times in The Independent. He died almost 20 years ago so, after today, I think it's time he was allowed to rest in peace, and that readers should in future be spared his sometimes bald wisdom. This is the last time he will make an appearance. But he had strong views about wearing the poppy. He was a soldier of the Great War, Battle of Arras 1918 – often called the Third Battle of the Somme – and the liberation of Cambrai, along with many troops from Canada. The Kaiser Wilhelm's army had charitably set the whole place on fire and he was appalled by the scorched earthpolicyof the retreating Germans. But of course, year after year, he would go along to the local cenotaph in Birkenhead, and later in Maidstone, where I was born 28 years after the end of his Great War, and he always wore his huge black coat, his regimental tie – 12th Battalion,the King'sLiverpool Regiment – and his poppy.

In those days, it was – I recall this accurately, I think – a darker red, blood-red rather than BBC-red, larger than the sorrow-lite version I see on the BBC and withoutthat ridiculous leaf. So my Dad would stand and I would be next to him in my Yardley Court School blazer at 10 years old and later, aged 16, in my Sutton Valence School blazer, with my very own Lady Haig poppy, its long blackwiresnaking through the material, sprouting from my lapel.

My Dad gave melots of booksabout the Great War, so I knew about the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand at Sarajevo before I went to school – and 47years before I stood, amid real shellfire,inthe real Sarajevoand put my feet on the very pavement footprints where Gavrilo Princip fired the fatal shots.

But as the years passed, old Bill Fisk became very ruminative about the Great War. He learned that Haig had lied, that he himself had foughtfora world that betrayed him,that 20,000 British dead on the first day of the Somme – which he mercifully avoided because his first regiment, the Cheshires, sent him to Dublin and Cork to deal with another 1916 "problem" – was a trashing of human life. In hospital and recovering from cancer, I asked him once why the Great War was fought. "All I can tell you, fellah," he said, "was that it was a great waste." And he swept his hand from left to right. Then he stopped wearing his poppy. I asked him why, and he said that he didn't want to see "so many damn fools" wearing it –he was a provocative man and, sadly, I fell out with him in his old age. What hemeantwas that all kinds of people who had no idea of the suffering of the Great War – or the Second, for that matter – were now ostentatiouslywearing a poppy for social or work-related reasons, to look patrioticand Britishwhen itsuited them, to keep in with their friends and betters and employers. These people, he said to me once, had no idea what the trenches of France were like, what it felt like to have your friends die beside you and then to confronttheirbrothers and wives and lovers and parents. At home, I still have a box of photographs of his mates, all of them killed in1918.

So like my Dad, I stopped wearing the poppy on the week before Remembrance Day, 11 November, when on the 11th hour of the 11 month of 1918, the armistice ended the war called Great. I didn't feel I deserved towearit and I didn't think itrepresented mythoughts. The original idea came, of course, from the Toronto military surgeon and poet John McCrae and was inspired by the death of his friend Lieutenant Alexis Helmer, killed on 3 May 1915. "In Flanders fields the poppies blow/Betweenthe crosses, row on row." But it's a propaganda poem, urging readers to "take up the quarrel with the foe". Bill Fisk eventually understood this and turned against it. He was right.

I've had my share of wars, and often return to the ancient Western Front. Three years ago, I was honoured to be invited to give the annual Armistice Day Western Front memorial speech at the rebuilt Cloth Hall in Ypres. The ghost of my long-dead 2nd Lieutenant Dad was, of course, in the audience. I quoted all my favourite Great War writers, along with the last words of Nurse Edith Cavell, and received, shortly afterwards, a wonderful and eloquent letter from the daughter of that fine Great War soldier Edmund Blunden. (Read his Undertones of War, if you do nothing else in life.) But I didn't weara poppy.And I declined to lay a wreath at the Menin Gate. This was something of which I was not worthy. Instead, while theyplayedthe last post,I lookedatthe gravestones on the city walls.

As a young boy, I also went to Ypres with my Dad, stayed at the "Old Tom Hotel" (it is still there, on the same side of the square as the Cloth Hall) and met many other "old soldiers", all now dead. I remember that they wanted to remember their dead comrades. But above all, they wanted an end to war. But now I see these pathetic creatures with their little sand-pit poppies – I notice that ourmasters inthe House of Commons do the same – and I despise them. Heaven be thanked that the soldiers of the Great War cannot return today to discover how their sacrifice has been turned into a fashion appendage.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 09:55:55 PM
The BBC have obviously relaxed their laws, or else Mark Sidebottom has said f**k yous, i will wear what i want
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 05, 2011, 09:57:20 PM
Quote from: robertfisk on November 05, 2011, 09:39:01 PM
...
Bright red they were, with that particularly silly green leaf out of the top – it was never part of the original Lady Haig appeal – and not one dared to appear on screen without it. Do these pathetic men and women know how they mock the dead?
...

As a young boy, I also went to Ypres with my Dad, stayed at the "Old Tom Hotel" (it is still there, on the same side of the square as the Cloth Hall) and met many other "old soldiers", all now dead. I remember that they wanted to remember their dead comrades. But above all, they wanted an end to war. But now I see these pathetic creatures with their little sand-pit poppies – I notice that our masters inthe House of Commons do the same – and I despise them. Heaven be thanked that the soldiers of the Great War cannot return today to discover how their sacrifice has been turned into a fashion appendage.


That's about the height of it all.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Mont on November 05, 2011, 09:58:31 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 09:55:55 PM
The BBC have obviously relaxed their laws, or else Mark Sidebottom has said f**k yous, i will wear what i want

Louis obviously hasn't said that!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 05, 2011, 10:00:29 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 09:55:55 PM
The BBC have obviously relaxed their laws, or else Mark Sidebottom has said f**k yous, i will wear what i want

His great Granda fought in WW1 I think.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 10:04:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 05, 2011, 10:00:29 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 09:55:55 PM
The BBC have obviously relaxed their laws, or else Mark Sidebottom has said f**k yous, i will wear what i want

His great Granda fought in WW1 I think.

well you probably know him minder being from down there, i think last year was the same if i can remember right. Maybe things have relaxed after the whole Donna Trainor episode from a few years back.

Jackie Fullerton had one interviewing Oran Kearney, who didnt. On other channels, this wouldnt happen
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 05, 2011, 10:06:08 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 10:04:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 05, 2011, 10:00:29 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 09:55:55 PM
The BBC have obviously relaxed their laws, or else Mark Sidebottom has said f**k yous, i will wear what i want

His great Granda fought in WW1 I think.

well you probably know him minder being from down there, i think last year was the same if i can remember right. Maybe things have relaxed after the whole Donna Trainor episode from a few years back.

Jackie Fullerton had one interviewing Oran Kearney, who didnt. On other channels, this wouldnt happen

They shouldn't be put in the position where it is forced upon them, if they want to wear it fair enough and if they don't, the same.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 10:20:54 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 05, 2011, 10:06:08 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 10:04:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 05, 2011, 10:00:29 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 05, 2011, 09:55:55 PM
The BBC have obviously relaxed their laws, or else Mark Sidebottom has said f**k yous, i will wear what i want

His great Granda fought in WW1 I think.

well you probably know him minder being from down there, i think last year was the same if i can remember right. Maybe things have relaxed after the whole Donna Trainor episode from a few years back.

Jackie Fullerton had one interviewing Oran Kearney, who didnt. On other channels, this wouldnt happen

They shouldn't be put in the position where it is forced upon them, if they want to wear it fair enough and if they don't, the same.

thats my opinion too. Just watching the main BBC News here, and every person who has been interviewed has one on, some of the are speaking for lass than 10 seconds. As you say, if you want to wear one, wear one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2011, 10:49:58 PM
Have they interviewed anyone from the SDLP or SF?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 08, 2011, 11:35:54 PM
Brought up on Spotlight tonight. Raymond McCartney, Conal McDevitt and Arlene Foster all happy to say they have no objection to a member of the other community wearing/not wearing (delete as appropriate) a poppy.

Mike Nesbitt shown to be a bit of a bollox saying he does get het up when he sees people not wearing one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2011, 11:59:56 PM
I heard people ringing into 606 on 5 live on Sunday. They were saying that the England team should be wearing poppies on their shirts just like the Premier League players. FIFA are against it though.

I wouldnt have thought NI catholic players aren't too happy about being forced to wear them. Also, how would a Premier League player from Iraq or Afghanistan feel if they were forced to wear a poppy on their shirts?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2011, 12:26:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2011, 11:59:56 PM
I heard people ringing into 606 on 5 live on Sunday. They were saying that the England team should be wearing poppies on their shirts just like the Premier League players. FIFA are against it though.

I wouldnt have thought NI catholic players aren't too happy about being forced to wear them. Also, how would a Premier League player from Iraq or Afghanistan feel if they were forced to wear a poppy on their shirts?

What would the reaction of The Sun and the Daily Mirror if the German national team decided to honour their war dead?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 09, 2011, 12:36:37 AM
I'd buy the German shirt if it had a big Swastika on it  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 12:42:34 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 09, 2011, 12:39:31 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 09, 2011, 12:26:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2011, 11:59:56 PM
I heard people ringing into 606 on 5 live on Sunday. They were saying that the England team should be wearing poppies on their shirts just like the Premier League players. FIFA are against it though.

I wouldnt have thought NI catholic players aren't too happy about being forced to wear them. Also, how would a Premier League player from Iraq or Afghanistan feel if they were forced to wear a poppy on their shirts?

What would the reaction of The Sun and the Daily Mirror if the German national team decided to honour their war dead?
FIFA have a ban on such international team kits having logos or emblems on them. One reason is that without such a rule you could have say Iran have an Anti-Isreal slogan on their shirts. Sweden a while back wanted an anti-drug slogan on their shirt but were refused permission.

The last few years over in England have seen a big rise in poppy facism, where if you're not seen wearing one you're automatically accused of being unpatriotic.

You only had to read the text and tweets coming into Spotlight tonight to see evidences of that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Declan on November 09, 2011, 07:13:42 AM
I don't get the whole Poppy thing on the football shirts myself. Martin Lipton was  on Newstalk last night saying there has always been a connection beteween the armed forces and football even bringing up the game on the front at Christmas in WW1 and then mentioning the infamous Nazi salute the England gave in Berlin in 1938 - Still didn't make sense to me though in making a case for the national team wearing them.

Very interesting piece from Fisk
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: magpie seanie on November 09, 2011, 09:27:49 AM
They've gone crazy about not being able to wear their Royal British Legion symbol on the soccer teams shirts against Spain. Massive outcry altogether. They can't understand FIFA's stance at all which makes me laugh. If they were playing Germany would it be ok to wear the poppy? Such clowns. Poppy fascism is rampant. FIFA are correct on this one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Doogie Browser on November 09, 2011, 09:48:10 AM
I see from Gabrielle Marcotti on twitter that England played Sweden 10/11/01 and had no poppies or black armbands so what makes them more relevant now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJMlXOzJxc
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: aontroim on November 09, 2011, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2011, 11:35:54 PM
Brought up on Spotlight tonight. Raymond McCartney, Conal McDevitt and Arlene Foster all happy to say they have no objection to a member of the other community wearing/not wearing (delete as appropriate) a poppy.

Mike Nesbitt shown to be a bit of a bollox saying he does get het up when he sees people not wearing one.

Arlene was sporting two poppies all day yesterday to make up for someone from the 'other community' not wearing one  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 09, 2011, 11:47:16 AM
Quote from: aontroim on November 09, 2011, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2011, 11:35:54 PM
Brought up on Spotlight tonight. Raymond McCartney, Conal McDevitt and Arlene Foster all happy to say they have no objection to a member of the other community wearing/not wearing (delete as appropriate) a poppy.

Mike Nesbitt shown to be a bit of a bollox saying he does get het up when he sees people not wearing one.

Arlene was sporting two poppies all day yesterday to make up for someone from the 'other community' not wearing one  :D

Seen that alright, does that mean she's twice as good at remembering?  :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 09, 2011, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 09, 2011, 09:48:10 AM
I see from Gabrielle Marcotti on twitter that England played Sweden 10/11/01 and had no poppies or black armbands so what makes them more relevant now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJMlXOzJxc

It's called trying to legitimise their involvement in 2 wars to the British public - see club teams having to wear them, soldiers on the pitches, mention of and wearing in popular British soaps ( Corrie and Eastenders, also Collection boxes on the bar counters etc).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 06:59:46 PM
Wonder will I be allowed to wear one of these at work on the 11'th?

(http://www.specialcamp11.co.uk/Medals/Iron%20Cross%201st%20Class%20(1914).jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 07:36:03 PM
Here is one Poppy I wouldn't mind laying  ;D

(http://images.wikia.com/bbceastenders/images/d/da/Poppy_Meadow.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2011, 08:07:15 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 09, 2011, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 09, 2011, 09:48:10 AM
I see from Gabrielle Marcotti on twitter that England played Sweden 10/11/01 and had no poppies or black armbands so what makes them more relevant now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJMlXOzJxc

It's called trying to legitimise their involvement in 2 wars to the British public - see club teams having to wear them, soldiers on the pitches, mention of and wearing in popular British soaps ( Corrie and Eastenders, also Collection boxes on the bar counters etc).
WWI and WWII?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 09:55:23 PM
Poppy Fascism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY3CEX9ATVM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY3CEX9ATVM)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 09, 2011, 10:20:20 PM
The Brits are so feckin clueless with their "they fought for our freedom" bollix, "Our troops do a great job in Iraq, Afghanistan, keeping us free from madmen" etc etc. Troops don't fight for the common man, they fight for psychopathic loonies who run the world. If you buy a poppy, you're supporting war. Simple as that.

By the way, the BBC should be impartial and not support one charity over another. Therefore their presenters should not wear any poppies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2011, 11:38:35 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 09:55:23 PM
Poppy Fascism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY3CEX9ATVM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY3CEX9ATVM)

Jesus, that woman is frighteningly stupid and jingoistic and perfectly personifies the poppy fascist. She's so thick she unwittingly did more to make the case against poppyism than any of the other contributors.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: saffron sam2 on November 10, 2011, 03:11:40 PM
Do people still wear these if they are not on television? I haven't seen a single one all year.

And I've been to Sprucefield.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 10, 2011, 03:36:07 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2011, 08:07:15 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 09, 2011, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 09, 2011, 09:48:10 AM
I see from Gabrielle Marcotti on twitter that England played Sweden 10/11/01 and had no poppies or black armbands so what makes them more relevant now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJMlXOzJxc

It's called trying to legitimise their involvement in 2 wars to the British public - see club teams having to wear them, soldiers on the pitches, mention of and wearing in popular British soaps ( Corrie and Eastenders, also Collection boxes on the bar counters etc).
WWI and WWII?


Tony I think you know rightly I meant Iraq and Afghanistan.
Hence the rise of "Poppy promotion" in the last number of years.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 10, 2011, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 10, 2011, 03:11:40 PM
Do people still wear these if they are not on television? I haven't seen a single one all year.

And I've been to Sprucefield.

You must have gone there via Twinbrook  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 10, 2011, 04:16:34 PM
To be honest I'd have to say the numbers of wearers in Enniskillen this year seems to be greater than in other years. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Christmas Lights on November 10, 2011, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 07:36:03 PM
Here is one Poppy I wouldn't mind laying  ;D

(http://images.wikia.com/bbceastenders/images/d/da/Poppy_Meadow.jpg)

MEH
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: year til sunday on November 10, 2011, 06:17:07 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 10, 2011, 03:36:07 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2011, 08:07:15 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 09, 2011, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 09, 2011, 09:48:10 AM
I see from Gabrielle Marcotti on twitter that England played Sweden 10/11/01 and had no poppies or black armbands so what makes them more relevant now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJMlXOzJxc

It's called trying to legitimise their involvement in 2 wars to the British public - see club teams having to wear them, soldiers on the pitches, mention of and wearing in popular British soaps ( Corrie and Eastenders, also Collection boxes on the bar counters etc).
WWI and WWII?


Tony I think you know rightly I meant Iraq and Afghanistan.
Hence the rise of "Poppy promotion" in the last number of years.

totally agree with the above, it is not an issue of respecting those who died in WW's I & II, its a politically motivated attempt at desensatising the British public re their current involvement in Iraq/Afghanistan. i heard it on talksport today Keys & Grey mentioning the soldiers coming back from these places in a box we're being remembered via poppy's, well if that doesn't nail politics to the poppy then i don't know what will. i wonder what talksport or the british public would have to say if the (rep of) Ireland team were to put an easter lilly on their jerseys? finally, don't you think its showing a distinct lack of respect to the WW I & II fallen to act this way in the 21st century, particularly as the England football team played matches all throughout the noughties without a sign of a poppy on the jersey
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 10, 2011, 07:26:58 PM
Who's the bird?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 10, 2011, 08:32:21 PM
I believe the new SDLP leader isn't going to follow the lead of the political leviathan he replaced by wearing a poppy at the city hall cenotaph on Sunday ... expect the whining and gnashing of teeth from the poppy fascists to get even worse, f**king remembrance nazis
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 11, 2011, 03:16:58 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2011, 08:32:21 PM
I believe the new SDLP leader isn't going to follow the lead of the political leviathan he replaced by wearing a poppy at the city hall cenotaph on Sunday ... expect the whining and gnashing of teeth from the poppy fascists to get even worse, f**king remembrance nazis

Will wait to see.

See the papers now feel that they have to put a poppy on their front page banners from yesterday!
This is getting sickening, and the idiots who buy into it I'm losing all respect for.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 05:45:41 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2011, 07:26:58 PM
Who's the bird?

Some wan from Eastenders called Poppy, she looks better than photo, but it was the only one I could find with her on her own.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2011, 09:55:22 AM
Guys there are some really mixed up views here. I have no affinity for the poppy given my upbringing, even though I had relatives killed in a British Uniform. The poppy is a fund raising tool of the British Legion and in fairness to them they have done a great job at getting at the forefront of peoples minds in November. But we have to sort out the issues.
1. It is a fund raising tool which allows the Legion to support soldiers who having been sent off to war by there political masters only to be forgotton about when they return.
2. Steve Earle recently observed that the one thing all those who started wars had in common was that they were not the ones fighting them. And in fairness to the Brits unlike the Americans they at least recognise their dead.
3. We have to separate the unjustness of war, and no one can stand over the conflict in Iraq or Afghanistan, from the working class men and women from all parts of these Islands who end up on the front line...hardly by choice.
4. Unionists in NI have done the poppy a great disservice by politicising it in much the same way they accuse SF of politicising the Irish language.
5. Given the Irish experience of the British Army over the last 100 years we are hardly objective are we, and there really is no political agenda with those in Britain who promote the poppy, that is not to say that governments might exploit this for their own selfish and strategic ends.
6. Personally I will never wear a poppy because I don't consider myself British and therefore their army is not my army and it fought and killed my fellow countrymen. But I do believe if we as Nationalists and Republicans expect respect for our culture and traditions then we must also show tolerance for the culture and traditions of others even though we may not agree with them or find it distasteful.
7.Some Unionists and the so called poppy fascists are actually in danger of destroying the poppy as fund raising tool by their lack of tolerance for those who do not wish to wear one for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: NAG1 on November 11, 2011, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2011, 09:55:22 AM
Guys there are some really mixed up views here. I have no affinity for the poppy given my upbringing, even though I had relatives killed in a British Uniform. The poppy is a fund raising tool of the British Legion and in fairness to them they have done a great job at getting at the forefront of peoples minds in November. But we have to sort out the issues.
1. It is a fund raising tool which allows the Legion to support soldiers who having been sent off to war by there political masters only to be forgotton about when they return.
2. Steve Earle recently observed that the one thing all those who started wars had in common was that they were not the ones fighting them. And in fairness to the Brits unlike the Americans they at least recognise their dead.
3. We have to separate the unjustness of war, and no one can stand over the conflict in Iraq or Afghanistan, from the working class men and women from all parts of these Islands who end up on the front line...hardly by choice.
4. Unionists in NI have done the poppy a great disservice by politicising it in much the same way they accuse SF of politicising the Irish language.
5. Given the Irish experience of the British Army over the last 100 years we are hardly objective are we, and there really is no political agenda with those in Britain who promote the poppy, that is not to say that governments might exploit this for their own selfish and strategic ends.
6. Personally I will never wear a poppy because I don't consider myself British and therefore their army is not my army and it fought and killed my fellow countrymen. But I do believe if we as Nationalists and Republicans expect respect for our culture and traditions then we must also show tolerance for the culture and traditions of others even though we may not agree with them or find it distasteful.
7.Some Unionists and the so called poppy fascists are actually in danger of destroying the poppy as fund raising tool by their lack of tolerance for those who do not wish to wear one for whatever reason.

Top class post +1
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: EC Unique on November 11, 2011, 10:16:00 AM
Quote from: Christmas Lights on November 10, 2011, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 07:36:03 PM
Here is one Poppy I wouldn't mind laying  ;D

(http://images.wikia.com/bbceastenders/images/d/da/Poppy_Meadow.jpg)

MEH

Might be nice around Mayo but does nothing for me. Average face and zero breasts...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rouge_Diablo on November 11, 2011, 10:31:15 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2011, 09:55:22 AM
Guys there are some really mixed up views here. I have no affinity for the poppy given my upbringing, even though I had relatives killed in a British Uniform. The poppy is a fund raising tool of the British Legion and in fairness to them they have done a great job at getting at the forefront of peoples minds in November. But we have to sort out the issues.
1. It is a fund raising tool which allows the Legion to support soldiers who having been sent off to war by there political masters only to be forgotton about when they return.


There should be no need for the legion in this day and age, if the gov send them out to get maimed  then it should be gov that look after them when they get back, not a Charity.

3. We have to separate the unjustness of war, and no one can stand over the conflict in Iraq or Afghanistan, from the working class men and women from all parts of these Islands who end up on the front line...hardly by choice.

None of these "heros" are conscripts, they are career soldiers, no one forces them to take the risk, they do it for money.


6. Personally I will never wear a poppy because I don't consider myself British and therefore their army is not my army and it fought and killed my fellow countrymen. But I do believe if we as Nationalists and Republicans expect respect for our culture and traditions then we must also show tolerance for the culture and traditions of others even though we may not agree with them or find it distasteful.
7.Some Unionists and the so called poppy fascists are actually in danger of destroying the poppy as fund raising tool by their lack of tolerance for those who do not wish to wear one for whatever reason.

The Unionists poppy fascism is small beans compared to the under current of revolt here in England. There are just as many, if not more, shuddering at the dianafication of the whole thing as there are those trying to force it down the throat  - the england football debarcle a prime example.





Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2011, 10:41:24 AM
Bollocks, thats like saying there's no need for Macmillan or Mencap or Trocaire. They may not be conscripts but economic necessity and lack of opportunity force many to join the army. Just look at the upsurge of recruits from the ROI since the bailout. i agree that the whole football shirt thing is a step too far and it is a fact that the government is using it as a tool. but this does not take away from the charitable acts that these funds allow. But as I thought I had made clear if as an Irishman you don't want to support or wear one then don't your choice after all its a British thing why get upset.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2011, 11:12:19 AM
No wars = no need for a poppy fund. Simple.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 11, 2011, 11:43:10 AM
missed the whole minute silence thing in the office today. No one was watching the clock.

But funnily a colleague said, and this is news to me,  it's for remembering ALL soldiers who fought and died in ALL wars, EVER!  ???

Guess that includes my Great-granddad who fought in the war of independence. Friend of the family was killed in Lebanon too.

News to me, as I say.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2011, 12:12:35 PM
Ahh shit I forgot to remember!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 11, 2011, 12:50:51 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 11, 2011, 03:16:58 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2011, 08:32:21 PM
I believe the new SDLP leader isn't going to follow the lead of the political leviathan he replaced by wearing a poppy at the city hall cenotaph on Sunday ... expect the whining and gnashing of teeth from the poppy fascists to get even worse, f**king remembrance nazis

Will wait to see.

See the papers now feel that they have to put a poppy on their front page banners from yesterday!
This is getting sickening, and the idiots who buy into it I'm losing all respect for.

McDonnell has confirmed he won't be wearing a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 11, 2011, 01:20:19 PM
On every recruiting platform in Dublin you will see the faces of the men who in 1913-14 met together day by day to tell of their plans to murder our women and children by starvation, and are now appealing to the men of those women and children to fight in order to save the precious skins of the gangs that conspired to starve and outrage them.

Who are the recruiters in Dublin? Who is it that sits ......on every recruiting committee, that spouts for recruits from every recruiting platform?

Who are they? They are the men who set the police upon the unarmed people in O'Connell Street, who filled the jails with our young working class girls, who batoned and imprisoned hundreds of Dublin workers, who racked and pillaged the poor rooms of the poorest of our class, who plied policemen with drink, suborned and hired perjurers to give false evidence, murdered John Byrne and James Nolan and Alice Brady, and in the midst of a Dublin reeking with horror and reeling with suffering and pain publicly gloated over our misery and exulted in their power to get 'three square meals per day' for their own overfed stomachs.

These are the recruiters. Every Irish man or boy who joins at their call gives these carrion a fresh victory over the Dublin working class – over the working class of all Ireland.

The trenches safer than the Dublin slums! We may yet see the day that the trenches will be safer for these gentry than any part of Dublin
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 11, 2011, 01:55:29 PM
There is an ugly propaganda that is subconciously being propigated by the ruling elite. All major institutions are playing their part

"Take some time to reflect on the sacrifice of our solders but don't dwell on the reasons and the individuals who put them in harms way "



Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Shamrock Shore on November 11, 2011, 02:05:54 PM
Bob Fisk has an interesting article on the whole poppy mallarkey in some of today's papers. Now I know he is not everybody's cup of tea but his Dad did serve in WWI (and in Ireland to quell those pesky rebels in 1916) and later on in life his Dad felt this poppy wearing was an insult to those who fought and died in the muck and shite of the trenches.

More or less "hey, look at me, I'm wearing a poppy. I soooooo feel your pain".
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Go home ref on November 11, 2011, 02:51:57 PM
Quote from: Hospital Road on November 11, 2011, 01:17:54 PM
(http://www.danthegardener.co.uk/Image/remembrance-poppy2.jpg)

Cuimhnigh ar mhairbh, atá tar éis titim le haghaidh ár saoirse
I gcás dearmad orainn

We use this to remember those who fought for freedom (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Metal_Easter_Lily.jpg/220px-Metal_Easter_Lily.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 06:00:27 PM
Quote from: Go home ref on November 11, 2011, 02:51:57 PM
Quote from: Hospital Road on November 11, 2011, 01:17:54 PM
(http://www.danthegardener.co.uk/Image/remembrance-poppy2.jpg)

Cuimhnigh ar mhairbh, atá tar éis titim le haghaidh ár saoirse
I gcás dearmad orainn

We use this to remember those who fought for freedom (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Metal_Easter_Lily.jpg/220px-Metal_Easter_Lily.jpg)

I usually hate both these symbols, but there is some beautiful symmetry about the pics and lanugage.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 06:05:21 PM
Where I was working today I heard someone ask a service user if they had observed the minutes silence, I turned to see it was a colleague talking. Then I looked up at the clock it was 11.15, and I realised that I had inadvertently spent the previous 15 minutes regaling an English audience about how proud a day it was having our 9'th President Inagurated today. They had been all questions throughout. Only then was it realised that the room had spent the previous 15 minutes discussing this moment in the history of Ireland and its Republic. This was not a conscious act on my behalf, but I did have a smirk on my face when I realised what had happened. Up the Republic  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 11, 2011, 06:55:17 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 10, 2011, 03:11:40 PM
Do people still wear these if they are not on television? I haven't seen a single one all year.

And I've been to Sprucefield.
You must have missed M&S - Poppy-fest this past couple of days, probably due to the fact that they were selling them on the door.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ardal on November 11, 2011, 10:33:56 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 06:05:21 PM
Where I was working today I heard someone ask a service user if they had observed the minutes silence, I turned to see it was a colleague talking. Then I looked up at the clock it was 11.15, and I realised that I had inadvertently spent the previous 15 minutes regaling an English audience about how proud a day it was having our 9'th President Inagurated today. They had been all questions throughout. Only then was it realised that the room had spent the previous 15 minutes discussing this moment in the history of Ireland and its Republic. This was not a conscious act on my behalf, but I did have a smirk on my face when I realised what had happened. Up the Republic  ;)

You were regaling an English audience? I'm guessing you work on a London bus
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thebigfella on November 11, 2011, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 06:05:21 PM
Where I was working today I heard someone ask a service user if they had observed the minutes silence, I turned to see it was a colleague talking. Then I looked up at the clock it was 11.15, and I realised that I had inadvertently spent the previous 15 minutes regaling an English audience about how proud a day it was having our 9'th President Inagurated today. They had been all questions throughout. Only then was it realised that the room had spent the previous 15 minutes discussing this moment in the history of Ireland and its Republic. This was not a conscious act on my behalf, but I did have a smirk on my face when I realised what had happened. Up the Republic  ;)

Sure you did.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 11, 2011, 11:25:56 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 11, 2011, 02:05:54 PM
Bob Fisk has an interesting article on the whole poppy mallarkey in some of today's papers. Now I know he is not everybody's cup of tea but his Dad did serve in WWI (and in Ireland to quell those pesky rebels in 1916) and later on in life his Dad felt this poppy wearing was an insult to those who fought and died in the muck and shite of the trenches.

More or less "hey, look at me, I'm wearing a poppy. I soooooo feel your pain".

It's pasted in a few pages back.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the tossers stop wearing them?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 12, 2011, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?
Does it really bother you that much?!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

So anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser? 

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 12, 2011, 12:07:49 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

Where does one go to with well considered comments like this  :-\
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 12, 2011, 01:42:15 PM
It used to be Remembrance Day or Remembrance Sunday.  I note the BBC on Friday referred to Remembrance Weekend and another media outlet referred to Remembrance Week.  It's getting like Christmas.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2011, 01:52:27 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

Why not find someone wearing a poppy and ask him "Here, tosser, when do you plan to stop wearing that?".

See how that goes down.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 12, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 06:05:21 PM
Where I was working today I heard someone ask a service user if they had observed the minutes silence, I turned to see it was a colleague talking. Then I looked up at the clock it was 11.15, and I realised that I had inadvertently spent the previous 15 minutes regaling an English audience about how proud a day it was having our 9'th President Inagurated today. They had been all questions throughout. Only then was it realised that the room had spent the previous 15 minutes discussing this moment in the history of Ireland and its Republic. This was not a conscious act on my behalf, but I did have a smirk on my face when I realised what had happened. Up the Republic  ;)

What a guy, you da man. The republic is lucky to have a lad such as yourself to hold an English audience spellboiund at the very minute they were supposed to be thinking about their fallen soldiers, I see what you did there, Ireland 1 England 0.

You are full of shite and that story proves it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Trout on November 12, 2011, 02:09:07 PM
Gweedore is possibly the biggest bigot on this board but squeals like a bitch if he thinks anyone on the other side is bigoted.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 12, 2011, 02:18:51 PM
QuoteSo anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser?

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

It is clear measure of how this poppy propaganda has succeeded in distorting the debate that opposing sectarianism is now characterised as sectarian.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: Trout on November 12, 2011, 02:09:07 PM
Gweedore is possibly the biggest bigot on this board but squeals like a bitch if he thinks anyone on the other side is bigoted.

Sorry, we don't debate with fish here.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Trout on November 12, 2011, 02:27:13 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: Trout on November 12, 2011, 02:09:07 PM
Gweedore is possibly the biggest bigot on this board but squeals like a bitch if he thinks anyone on the other side is bigoted.

Sorry, we don't debate with fish here.

Where was the invitation for debate ? You mind that temper of yours, we don't want you blowing your top and sending abusive PMs.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 03:36:47 PM
Quote from: Trout on November 12, 2011, 02:27:13 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: Trout on November 12, 2011, 02:09:07 PM
Gweedore is possibly the biggest bigot on this board but squeals like a bitch if he thinks anyone on the other side is bigoted.

Sorry, we don't debate with fish here.

Where was the invitation for debate ? You mind that temper of yours, we don't want you blowing your top and sending abusive PMs.

I wouldn't worry about my temper lad, I'd never lose it with the likes of you.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 12, 2011, 03:47:12 PM
David Mitchell on HIGNFY last night in relation to the poppy furoure over England v Spain - "I'm disappointed that they're not playing dressed as poppies'. Made me laugh.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2011, 05:52:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 06:05:21 PM
Where I was working today I heard someone ask a service user if they had observed the minutes silence, I turned to see it was a colleague talking. Then I looked up at the clock it was 11.15, and I realised that I had inadvertently spent the previous 15 minutes regaling an English audience about how proud a day it was having our 9'th President Inagurated today. They had been all questions throughout. Only then was it realised that the room had spent the previous 15 minutes discussing this moment in the history of Ireland and its Republic. This was not a conscious act on my behalf, but I did have a smirk on my face when I realised what had happened. Up the Republic  ;)

What a guy, you da man. The republic is lucky to have a lad such as yourself to hold an English audience spellboiund at the very minute they were supposed to be thinking about their fallen soldiers, I see what you did there, Ireland 1 England 0.

You are full of shite and that story proves it.

Think what ya like, what suprised me was that no one actually seemed bothered to observe the minutes silence. No one mentioned it coming up to the time. The first time I heard it mentined was a few minutes after it was supposed to have taken place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 12, 2011, 05:57:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2011, 05:52:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 06:05:21 PM
Where I was working today I heard someone ask a service user if they had observed the minutes silence, I turned to see it was a colleague talking. Then I looked up at the clock it was 11.15, and I realised that I had inadvertently spent the previous 15 minutes regaling an English audience about how proud a day it was having our 9'th President Inagurated today. They had been all questions throughout. Only then was it realised that the room had spent the previous 15 minutes discussing this moment in the history of Ireland and its Republic. This was not a conscious act on my behalf, but I did have a smirk on my face when I realised what had happened. Up the Republic  ;)

What a guy, you da man. The republic is lucky to have a lad such as yourself to hold an English audience spellboiund at the very minute they were supposed to be thinking about their fallen soldiers, I see what you did there, Ireland 1 England 0.

You are full of shite and that story proves it.

Think what ya like, what suprised me was that no one actually seemed bothered to observe the minutes silence. No one mentioned it coming up to the time. The first time I heard it mentined was a few minutes after it was supposed to have taken place.

I just dont get why you be surprised by that. We have the media pumping out massive propaganda in regards to wearing a poppy and the minutes silience but why do you think that everybody will adher to the media message? People get immersed in work and the day goes on.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 06:25:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2011, 02:18:51 PM
QuoteSo anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser?

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

It is clear measure of how this poppy propaganda has succeeded in distorting the debate that opposing sectarianism is now characterised as sectarian.

Calling people t@@sers is opposing sectarianism ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 07:03:31 PM
Now this is how to remember, Orange style, a rememberanxe day parade followed up by a sectarian protest. You gotta love them...

Orangemen at No10 over Catholic ban

Saturday November 12 2011 Members of the Protestant Orange Order have descended on Downing Street to oppose the lifting of a ban on those in line to the throne from marrying a Catholic. The Orangemen took a brief detour from their annual Remembrance Day march to deliver the letter setting out concerns that changes to the Act of Settlement will call into question the future role of the monarch as the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. Jeffrey Donaldson, Ulster Democratic Unionist MP for Lagan Valley, said: "The Queen is the supreme governor of the Church of England, and if a future monarch were to marry someone outside of the Church of England that could have consequences for the sole link between the Crown and the church. "We believe this is part of a long-term plan to disestablish the Church of England by damaging the link between the Crown and the church." The leaders of the 16 Commonwealth nations where the Queen serves as head of state came together in October to unanimously approve changes to the laws of royal succession which lift the ban on anyone in line for the throne marrying a Catholic. The Orangemen Remember and Parade in London started with the laying of a wreath at the tomb of King William III in Westminster Abbey by nine officers and members of the Houses of Parliament Loyal Orange Lodge. Prayers were said and Mr Donaldson, the 48-year-old Master of the Houses of Parliament Loyal Orange Lodge, addressed the group. He said: "We urge upon our government today to think carefully about the course they are embarked upon and its consequences for our sovereign, for our church and for our nation." The parade featured around 100 members dressed in black suits with ceremonial orange and purple collarettes and white gloves. They were accompanied by the Corby Purple Star Flute Band from Northampton, who played traditional marching band songs.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: EC Unique on November 12, 2011, 07:35:27 PM
There really is very little difference in the OO and the KKK.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 12, 2011, 07:51:35 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 07:03:31 PM
Jeffrey Donaldson, Ulster Democratic Unionist MP for Lagan Valley, said: "The Queen is the supreme governor of the Church of England, and if a future monarch were to marry someone outside of the Church of England that could have consequences for the sole link between the Crown and the church. 
Yes Jeffrey, but the monarch could marry someone outside the CoE all along, just not a Catholic.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2011, 08:00:43 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 07:03:31 PM
Now this is how to remember, Orange style, a rememberanxe day parade followed up by a sectarian protest. You gotta love them...

Orangemen at No10 over Catholic ban

Saturday November 12 2011 Members of the Protestant Orange Order have descended on Downing Street to oppose the lifting of a ban on those in line to the throne from marrying a Catholic. The Orangemen took a brief detour from their annual Remembrance Day march to deliver the letter setting out concerns that changes to the Act of Settlement will call into question the future role of the monarch as the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. Jeffrey Donaldson, Ulster Democratic Unionist MP for Lagan Valley, said: "The Queen is the supreme governor of the Church of England, and if a future monarch were to marry someone outside of the Church of England that could have consequences for the sole link between the Crown and the church. "We believe this is part of a long-term plan to disestablish the Church of England by damaging the link between the Crown and the church." The leaders of the 16 Commonwealth nations where the Queen serves as head of state came together in October to unanimously approve changes to the laws of royal succession which lift the ban on anyone in line for the throne marrying a Catholic. The Orangemen Remember and Parade in London started with the laying of a wreath at the tomb of King William III in Westminster Abbey by nine officers and members of the Houses of Parliament Loyal Orange Lodge. Prayers were said and Mr Donaldson, the 48-year-old Master of the Houses of Parliament Loyal Orange Lodge, addressed the group. He said: "We urge upon our government today to think carefully about the course they are embarked upon and its consequences for our sovereign, for our church and for our nation." The parade featured around 100 members dressed in black suits with ceremonial orange and purple collarettes and white gloves. They were accompanied by the Corby Purple Star Flute Band from Northampton, who played traditional marching band songs.
Used to be known as Little Scotland, due to the fact that it had a steel works in the town and many of those who worked in it had relocated down from Scotland. Maybe it has changed, but I was there 2 or 2 times in the early 80's and it was the most depressing, depressed place on God's green earth.

Just thought I'd share that....  :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LondonCamanachd on November 12, 2011, 08:01:29 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 11, 2011, 11:43:10 AMBut funnily a colleague said, and this is news to me,  it's for remembering ALL soldiers who fought and died in ALL wars, EVER!  ??

I've been brought up with that attitude and it's quite common over here.  Most 'brits' see the poppy as a symbol of peace, and would see the PDF's peacekeepers being remembered on the 11th as totally appropriate.  I believe German and Argentinian representatives have taken part in Remembrance Sunday commemorations in recent years.

Please don't think the bigots and neos speak for us, for us it is simply to mark the end of WW1 and to contribute to a charity that looks after our ex-servicemen because our government won't.

And any person over that gets offended over people choosing not to donate is a f*cking fanny.

David Cameron has embarrassed himself with his tawdry populism over the English footballers wearing the poppy.  But, please, he doesn't speak for the majority of 'brits' - and he certainly does not speak for me and my countrymen!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LondonCamanachd on November 12, 2011, 08:03:10 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2011, 08:00:43 PM
Used to be known as Little Scotland, due to the fact that it had a steel works in the town and many of those who worked in it had relocated down from Scotland. Maybe it has changed, but I was there 2 or 2 times in the early 80's and it was the most depressing, depressed place on God's green earth.

Just thought I'd share that....  :)

From Glasgow.  Hence the bigotry.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thejuice on November 12, 2011, 08:06:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2011, 07:51:35 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 07:03:31 PM
Jeffrey Donaldson, Ulster Democratic Unionist MP for Lagan Valley, said: "The Queen is the supreme governor of the Church of England, and if a future monarch were to marry someone outside of the Church of England that could have consequences for the sole link between the Crown and the church. 
Yes Jeffrey, but the monarch could marry someone outside the CoE all along, just not a Catholic.

Yeah, I mean, God forbid, that could make the Orange Order become even more redundant.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 08:14:01 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2011, 08:00:43 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 07:03:31 PM
Now this is how to remember, Orange style, a rememberanxe day parade followed up by a sectarian protest. You gotta love them...

Orangemen at No10 over Catholic ban

Saturday November 12 2011 Members of the Protestant Orange Order have descended on Downing Street to oppose the lifting of a ban on those in line to the throne from marrying a Catholic. The Orangemen took a brief detour from their annual Remembrance Day march to deliver the letter setting out concerns that changes to the Act of Settlement will call into question the future role of the monarch as the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. Jeffrey Donaldson, Ulster Democratic Unionist MP for Lagan Valley, said: "The Queen is the supreme governor of the Church of England, and if a future monarch were to marry someone outside of the Church of England that could have consequences for the sole link between the Crown and the church. "We believe this is part of a long-term plan to disestablish the Church of England by damaging the link between the Crown and the church." The leaders of the 16 Commonwealth nations where the Queen serves as head of state came together in October to unanimously approve changes to the laws of royal succession which lift the ban on anyone in line for the throne marrying a Catholic. The Orangemen Remember and Parade in London started with the laying of a wreath at the tomb of King William III in Westminster Abbey by nine officers and members of the Houses of Parliament Loyal Orange Lodge. Prayers were said and Mr Donaldson, the 48-year-old Master of the Houses of Parliament Loyal Orange Lodge, addressed the group. He said: "We urge upon our government today to think carefully about the course they are embarked upon and its consequences for our sovereign, for our church and for our nation." The parade featured around 100 members dressed in black suits with ceremonial orange and purple collarettes and white gloves. They were accompanied by the Corby Purple Star Flute Band from Northampton, who played traditional marching band songs.
Used to be known as Little Scotland, due to the fact that it had a steel works in the town and many of those who worked in it had relocated down from Scotland. Maybe it has changed, but I was there 2 or 2 times in the early 80's and it was the most depressing, depressed place on God's green earth.

Just thought I'd share that....  :)

Sounds like the perfect place for them!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: never kickt a ball on November 13, 2011, 01:46:15 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11743727
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Forever Green on November 13, 2011, 01:48:59 AM
f**k every single one o them who served over here. See, I would have no problem with the shite if it was just for the World Wars but its no
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Arthur_Friend on November 13, 2011, 08:57:32 AM
Pity the BBC don't have a webpage entitled 'Who they felled' and give numbers for that as well.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 13, 2011, 08:35:10 PM
Zero poppies on display today in Casement Park.

Of course the police made sure they were visible outside the ground.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2011, 08:38:58 PM
Well it's over, time to stash those poppies away for another year seven months
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2011, 08:45:25 PM
Was at the gym this morning and this girl was showing off her poppy every time she worked on the thigh master!! I like poppies
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Armaghgeddon on November 13, 2011, 08:47:24 PM
The looks I got walking to work this morning....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lawnseed on November 13, 2011, 08:47:37 PM
all credit to poppy wearers but they put dorathy to sleep in the wizard of oz. wouldnt have them about the place health and safety etc.. ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2011, 08:51:21 PM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on November 13, 2011, 08:47:24 PM
The looks I got walking to work this morning....

Aye had to laugh myself, went up to the shop this morning and everyone had black suits on and poppies to the max! Spot the Taig game
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on November 13, 2011, 11:58:15 PM
Just took mine off before midnight. :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:49:49 PM
Quote from: Trout on November 12, 2011, 02:09:07 PM
Gweedore is possibly the biggest bigot on this board but squeals like a bitch if he thinks anyone on the other side is bigoted.

I'll assume its me your talking about  ::).
How am I a bigot?
Can you show me where I "squeal like a bitch" anywhere on this board?
Or would you be talking boll*cks!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2011, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?
Does it really bother you that much?!

Poppy fascism does, yeah.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

So anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser? 

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

No, did I say they were, the tosser description is aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm.

"Sectarian comment" - catch yourself on.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaffer on November 14, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

So anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser? 

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

No, did I say they were, the t**ser description is aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm.

"Sectarian comment" - catch yourself on.

Where did you say that it was aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm? 

Fact is you didn't !!  This is what you said.....

Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?


You were talking about anyone who wore them !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2011, 09:27:34 PM
I saw a picture of Tony Blair with a poppy. He should get a special one for sending all those squaddies to die in Afghanistan.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 14, 2011, 11:16:16 PM
He should have every poppy worn yesterday stuffed down his throat
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: passedit on November 15, 2011, 08:22:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lZv6WlH5kJk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lZv6WlH5kJk)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 15, 2011, 09:42:46 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 14, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

So anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser? 

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

No, did I say they were, the t**ser description is aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm.

"Sectarian comment" - catch yourself on.

Where did you say that it was aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm? 

Fact is you didn't !!  This is what you said.....

Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?


You were talking about anyone who wore them !

So your going to tell me what I think and mean now!
You read what you want into it!
Just like creating a "sectarian comment" out of something which in no way was one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Billys Boots on November 15, 2011, 09:43:46 AM
Quote from: passedit on November 15, 2011, 08:22:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lZv6WlH5kJk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lZv6WlH5kJk)

Cool.  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaffer on November 15, 2011, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 15, 2011, 09:42:46 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 14, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

So anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser? 

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

No, did I say they were, the t**ser description is aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm.

"Sectarian comment" - catch yourself on.

Where did you say that it was aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm? 

Fact is you didn't !!  This is what you said.....

Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?


You were talking about anyone who wore them !

So your going to tell me what I think and mean now!
You read what you want into it!
Just like creating a "sectarian comment" out of something which in no way was one.

You told the board what you  think.

Stop digging !!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tyssam5 on November 15, 2011, 08:19:23 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 12, 2011, 07:03:31 PM
Now this is how to remember, Orange style, a rememberanxe day parade followed up by a sectarian protest. You gotta love them...

Orangemen at No10 over Catholic ban

Saturday November 12 2011 Members of the Protestant Orange Order have descended on Downing Street to oppose the lifting of a ban on those in line to the throne from marrying a Catholic. The Orangemen took a brief detour from their annual Remembrance Day march to deliver the letter setting out concerns that changes to the Act of Settlement will call into question the future role of the monarch as the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. Jeffrey Donaldson, Ulster Democratic Unionist MP for Lagan Valley, said: "The Queen is the supreme governor of the Church of England, and if a future monarch were to marry someone outside of the Church of England that could have consequences for the sole link between the Crown and the church. "We believe this is part of a long-term plan to disestablish the Church of England by damaging the link between the Crown and the church." The leaders of the 16 Commonwealth nations where the Queen serves as head of state came together in October to unanimously approve changes to the laws of royal succession which lift the ban on anyone in line for the throne marrying a Catholic. The Orangemen Remember and Parade in London started with the laying of a wreath at the tomb of King William III in Westminster Abbey by nine officers and members of the Houses of Parliament Loyal Orange Lodge. Prayers were said and Mr Donaldson, the 48-year-old Master of the Houses of Parliament Loyal Orange Lodge, addressed the group. He said: "We urge upon our government today to think carefully about the course they are embarked upon and its consequences for our sovereign, for our church and for our nation." The parade featured around 100 members dressed in black suits with ceremonial orange and purple collarettes and white gloves. They were accompanied by the Corby Purple Star Flute Band from Northampton, who played traditional marching band songs.

Is Jeff not a Presbyterian? If so nice to his concern regarding the future of the Church of England.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2011, 08:46:38 PM
Good to see they are still showing their true bitter twisted orange bigoted colours . ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 15, 2011, 09:00:34 PM
I'd genuinely love to hear what he thinks the "consequences" would be, that would really show how batshit nuts they are.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5 Sams on November 15, 2011, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2011, 08:45:25 PM
Was at the gym this morning and this girl was showing off her poppy every time she worked on the thigh master!! I like poppies

Rule 1
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 16, 2011, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 15, 2011, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 15, 2011, 09:42:46 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 14, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

So anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser? 

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

No, did I say they were, the t**ser description is aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm.

"Sectarian comment" - catch yourself on.

Where did you say that it was aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm? 

Fact is you didn't !!  This is what you said.....

Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?


You were talking about anyone who wore them !

So your going to tell me what I think and mean now!
You read what you want into it!
Just like creating a "sectarian comment" out of something which in no way was one.

You told the board what you  think.

Stop digging !!

No, you read into my post what you wanted to hear, FFS you even tried turning it into a "sectarian comment!"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaffer on November 16, 2011, 03:53:10 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 16, 2011, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 15, 2011, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 15, 2011, 09:42:46 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 14, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

So anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser? 

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

No, did I say they were, the t**ser description is aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm.

"Sectarian comment" - catch yourself on.

Where did you say that it was aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm? 

Fact is you didn't !!  This is what you said.....

Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?


You were talking about anyone who wore them !

So your going to tell me what I think and mean now!
You read what you want into it!
Just like creating a "sectarian comment" out of something which in no way was one.

You told the board what you  think.

Stop digging !!

No, you read into my post what you wanted to hear, FFS you even tried turning it into a "sectarian comment!"

But you were talking about anyone who wore them, not ones who wore them after Rememberance Day as you later claimed.

And you know fine rightly that its mostly Protestants who wear them , hence the sectarianism !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2011, 04:15:03 PM
To be pedantic if you include all citizens of the UK, then it is not solely Protestants, also the poppy has been politicised and is certainly not religious therefore whilst the remarks may be offensive to some and certainly silly (as there are more than just tossers wearing them) they are hardly sectarian in the narrow definition of the term.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 16, 2011, 05:04:32 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 16, 2011, 03:53:10 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 16, 2011, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 15, 2011, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 15, 2011, 09:42:46 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 14, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

So anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser? 

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

No, did I say they were, the t**ser description is aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm.

"Sectarian comment" - catch yourself on.

Where did you say that it was aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm? 

Fact is you didn't !!  This is what you said.....

Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?


You were talking about anyone who wore them !

So your going to tell me what I think and mean now!
You read what you want into it!
Just like creating a "sectarian comment" out of something which in no way was one.

You told the board what you  think.

Stop digging !!

No, you read into my post what you wanted to hear, FFS you even tried turning it into a "sectarian comment!"

But you were talking about anyone who wore them, not ones who wore them after Rememberance Day as you later claimed.

And you know fine rightly that its mostly Protestants who wear them , hence the sectarianism !

Can't really be bothered with this, but here goes -
No I wasn't talking about everyone who wore them, I have explained this already, if you don't want to accept that then that's your perogative, as for your sectarian slant thats just bullshit, religion doesn't come into it for the majority of poppy wearers (except here), you'll find religion well down the list of priorities for most English, Scottish and Welsh.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2011, 05:25:43 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 16, 2011, 05:04:32 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 16, 2011, 03:53:10 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 16, 2011, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 15, 2011, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 15, 2011, 09:42:46 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 14, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 14, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on November 12, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on November 12, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?

So anyone who wears a poppy is a t@@ser? 

A sectarian a comment as you could not wish to read considering the vast majority of people from N Ireland who wear them are protestants.

No, did I say they were, the t**ser description is aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm.

"Sectarian comment" - catch yourself on.

Where did you say that it was aimed at the people who continue to wear the poppies above and beyond the norm? 

Fact is you didn't !!  This is what you said.....

Tank fcuk it's all over come today/Sunday/actually when do the t**sers stop wearing them?


You were talking about anyone who wore them !

So your going to tell me what I think and mean now!
You read what you want into it!
Just like creating a "sectarian comment" out of something which in no way was one.

You told the board what you  think.

Stop digging !!

No, you read into my post what you wanted to hear, FFS you even tried turning it into a "sectarian comment!"

But you were talking about anyone who wore them, not ones who wore them after Rememberance Day as you later claimed.

And you know fine rightly that its mostly Protestants who wear them , hence the sectarianism !

Can't really be bothered with this, but here goes -
No I wasn't talking about everyone who wore them, I have explained this already, if you don't want to accept that then that's your perogative, as for your sectarian slant thats just bullshit, religion doesn't come into it for the majority of poppy wearers (except here), you'll find religion well down the list of priorities for most English, Scottish and Welsh.
Correct
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Malvinas on November 16, 2011, 10:34:05 PM
http://cowped.blogspot.com/2011/11/load-of-balls.html#comment-form
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Canalman on November 17, 2011, 12:54:09 PM
Ah , the thread is winding down. Time now to unravel the Christmas Tree Lights and write the letters to Santa. Although not a participant I really enjoyed  browsing the postings here.

As they say in Hollywood Ca..................... TO BE CONTINUED.

Guaranteed that this thread will be dusted down and given another full blast next October.

It's great to be Irish. Always a battle to be refought if a current one can't be arranged.

For what it is worth  this year I didn't see a single poppy here in the Dublin suburbs.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 17, 2011, 01:43:13 PM
Unfortunately some of the people at the Boyle remembrance of the "Connaught" Rangers British Army one time Regiment wore them.
All I can say is  :-  :-[ :-[   and thank God I'm not from that old Garrison Town.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
The British war machine

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4009352/Sun-Military-Awards-They-cried-with-pride.html

The maimed working class with their PTSD get glittered with stardust in the company of royalty and celebrity.
And the killing goes on  .
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
The British war machine

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4009352/Sun-Military-Awards-They-cried-with-pride.html

The maimed working class with their PTSD get glittered with stardust in the company of royalty and celebrity.

And the killing goes on.
Certainly does:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8287154/Shocking-footage-emerges-of-Taliban-stoning-couple-to-death.html

Still, I'm sure this lot, for instance, will be glad to see the back of the foreign occupiers:
http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
The British war machine

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4009352/Sun-Military-Awards-They-cried-with-pride.html

The maimed working class with their PTSD get glittered with stardust in the company of royalty and celebrity.

And the killing goes on.
Certainly does:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8287154/Shocking-footage-emerges-of-Taliban-stoning-couple-to-death.html

Still, I'm sure this lot, for instance, will be glad to see the back of the foreign occupiers:
http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/

Bomb them into civilization?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on December 20, 2011, 05:51:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
The British war machine

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4009352/Sun-Military-Awards-They-cried-with-pride.html

The maimed working class with their PTSD get glittered with stardust in the company of royalty and celebrity.

And the killing goes on.
Certainly does:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8287154/Shocking-footage-emerges-of-Taliban-stoning-couple-to-death.html

Still, I'm sure this lot, for instance, will be glad to see the back of the foreign occupiers:
http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/
Your correct EG, i think Afghanistan is the only country in the world that has a hospital dedicated entirely to women who suffer from burns either by being set on fire or setting themselves on fire due to the harsh treatment they receive.  But lets not kid ourselves, there plight, and the plight of their people by a ruthless regime, the taliban, is not the reason why British and US troops are there, and you know it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2011, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
The British war machine

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4009352/Sun-Military-Awards-They-cried-with-pride.html

The maimed working class with their PTSD get glittered with stardust in the company of royalty and celebrity.

And the killing goes on.
Certainly does:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8287154/Shocking-footage-emerges-of-Taliban-stoning-couple-to-death.html

Still, I'm sure this lot, for instance, will be glad to see the back of the foreign occupiers:
http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/

Bomb them into civilization?
Aye, "civilization", that's the first thing I think about when I think about Afghanistan before the occupation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENvd7Zj1Qs&feature=related
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 06:05:29 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 20, 2011, 05:51:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
The British war machine

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4009352/Sun-Military-Awards-They-cried-with-pride.html

The maimed working class with their PTSD get glittered with stardust in the company of royalty and celebrity.

And the killing goes on.
Certainly does:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8287154/Shocking-footage-emerges-of-Taliban-stoning-couple-to-death.html

Still, I'm sure this lot, for instance, will be glad to see the back of the foreign occupiers:
http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/
Your correct EG, i think Afghanistan is the only country in the world that has a hospital dedicated entirely to women who suffering from burns iether by being set on fire or setting themselves on fire due to harsh treatment they receive.  But lets not kid ourselves, there plight, and the plight of their people by a ruthless regime, the taliban, is not the reason why British and US troops are there, and you know it.
I'm not kidding myself in the least.

The West went into Afghanistan because the Taliban regime was sheltering Bin Laden and Al Quaida, and refusing either to give them up or drive them out. Imo, this was justified.

But I hope you're not kidding yourself, either, by failing to recognise that since the invasion, life for 50%+ of the population has improved immeasurably.

Worse, if we leave before the governing administration is willing and able to resist the Taliban, then I'd give it about 10 minutes before the poor people of that benighted country are plunged right back into the Stone Age barbarity which characterised those savages*.


* - And if that makes me a Cultural Imperialist, as well as a Military one, then so be it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on December 20, 2011, 06:21:03 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 06:05:29 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 20, 2011, 05:51:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
The British war machine

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4009352/Sun-Military-Awards-They-cried-with-pride.html

The maimed working class with their PTSD get glittered with stardust in the company of royalty and celebrity.

And the killing goes on.
Certainly does:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8287154/Shocking-footage-emerges-of-Taliban-stoning-couple-to-death.html

Still, I'm sure this lot, for instance, will be glad to see the back of the foreign occupiers:
http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/
Your correct EG, i think Afghanistan is the only country in the world that has a hospital dedicated entirely to women who suffering from burns iether by being set on fire or setting themselves on fire due to harsh treatment they receive.  But lets not kid ourselves, there plight, and the plight of their people by a ruthless regime, the taliban, is not the reason why British and US troops are there, and you know it.
I'm not kidding myself in the least.

The West went into Afghanistan because the Taliban regime was sheltering Bin Laden and Al Quaida, and refusing either to give them up or drive them out. Imo, this was justified.

But I hope you're not kidding yourself, either, by failing to recognise that since the invasion, life for 50%+ of the population has improved immeasurably.
Worse, if we leave before the governing administration is willing and able to resist the Taliban, then I'd give it about 10 minutes before the poor people of that benighted country are plunged right back into the Stone Age barbarity which characterised those savages*.


* - And if that makes me a Cultural Imperialist, as well as a Military one, then so be it.
I dont know where you get your figures, but I will concede on that, but there was an extremley high pice to pay for that, and it still hasnt been paid in full yet.  My only gripe is the bullshit and propaganda that is spun about the armed forces being sent in to help the poor natives when it is entirely for there own self serving reasons.  If it was for humanitarian reasons there was whole host of other countries higher up the list before Afghanistan.
I would mostly agree with your lasat paragraph, that they should see the transition out, although if the "savages" have support of large percentage of the population then, as muppet put it, you cant bomb them into civilisation and the whole excercise is a waste of time lives and money.  I hope its not.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 20, 2011, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Aye, "civilization", that's the first thing I think about when I think about Afghanistan before the occupation...

Aye, like this was their first time of occupying Afghanistan...

The First Anglo-Afghan War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
(http://www.bollyn.com/public/Map_of_TAPI_Pipeline.jpg)

FATALITIES BY PROVINCE - The route of the proposed TAPI gas pipeline is exactly where most U.S. troops have died in Afghanistan (the blood red provinces of Helmand and Kandahar) .

(http://www.bollyn.com/public/Fatalities_in_Afghanistan.JPG)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 06:30:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Aye, "civilization", that's the first thing I think about when I think about Afghanistan before the occupation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENvd7Zj1Qs&feature=related

Civilisation is your argument for being there. Oil is mine.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:29:18 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 20, 2011, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Aye, "civilization", that's the first thing I think about when I think about Afghanistan before the occupation...

Aye, like this was their first time of occupying Afghanistan...

The First Anglo-Afghan War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War)
Ah right, so you reckon that the 2001 Invasion was just a continuation of "The Great Game", then?

I suppose it is just possible that the Politicians and Generals figured that they wait 150 years for some mad fcuker to emerge from the caves of Tora Bora and attack the West, so that they'd have a pretext for exacting revenge... ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:41:09 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 20, 2011, 06:21:03 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 06:05:29 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 20, 2011, 05:51:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
The British war machine

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4009352/Sun-Military-Awards-They-cried-with-pride.html

The maimed working class with their PTSD get glittered with stardust in the company of royalty and celebrity.

And the killing goes on.
Certainly does:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8287154/Shocking-footage-emerges-of-Taliban-stoning-couple-to-death.html

Still, I'm sure this lot, for instance, will be glad to see the back of the foreign occupiers:
http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/
Your correct EG, i think Afghanistan is the only country in the world that has a hospital dedicated entirely to women who suffering from burns iether by being set on fire or setting themselves on fire due to harsh treatment they receive.  But lets not kid ourselves, there plight, and the plight of their people by a ruthless regime, the taliban, is not the reason why British and US troops are there, and you know it.
I'm not kidding myself in the least.

The West went into Afghanistan because the Taliban regime was sheltering Bin Laden and Al Quaida, and refusing either to give them up or drive them out. Imo, this was justified.

But I hope you're not kidding yourself, either, by failing to recognise that since the invasion, life for 50%+ of the population has improved immeasurably.
Worse, if we leave before the governing administration is willing and able to resist the Taliban, then I'd give it about 10 minutes before the poor people of that benighted country are plunged right back into the Stone Age barbarity which characterised those savages*.


* - And if that makes me a Cultural Imperialist, as well as a Military one, then so be it.
I dont know where you get your figures, but I will concede on that, but there was an extremley high pice to pay for that, and it still hasnt been paid in full yet.  My only gripe is the bullshit and propaganda that is spun about the armed forces being sent in to help the poor natives when it is entirely for there own self serving reasons.  If it was for humanitarian reasons there was whole host of other countries higher up the list before Afghanistan.
I would mostly agree with your lasat paragraph, that they should see the transition out, although if the "savages" have support of large percentage of the population then, as muppet put it, you cant bomb them into civilisation and the whole excercise is a waste of time lives and money.  I hope its not.
As I tried to indicate, I have no illusions as to why NATO first went into Afghanistan - it was solely to evict Al Qaida and punish the Taliban.

Nor have I any illusions that they're still there in order to restore civilization and democracy etc to the country. But that is a (beneficial) side-effect which has followed (if only in a rudimentary form).

Therefore when/if the troops do leave, I hope for the sake of ordinary Afghanis that the local Government left behind is strong enough to prevent the return of the Taliban, since that bunch of barbarians are arguably the worst dictatorship the world has seen since the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. 

P.S. The "50%" figure I quoted simply referred to the female  population of the country.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Groucho on December 20, 2011, 07:46:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFHLvs_MpoY&feature=related :o :o
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
(http://www.bollyn.com/public/Map_of_TAPI_Pipeline.jpg)

FATALITIES BY PROVINCE - The route of the proposed TAPI gas pipeline is exactly where most U.S. troops have died in Afghanistan (the blood red provinces of Helmand and Kandahar) .

(http://www.bollyn.com/public/Fatalities_in_Afghanistan.JPG)
Er, you do know what "TAPI" stands for, don't you*?

Why on earth would the West invade Afghanistan, in order to pave the way for a pipeline running Eastwards i.e. towards India and China?  ::)

You know, I've heard some pretty fcuked-up Conspiracy Theories in my time, but that one surely takes the biscuit... :D


* - Clue: Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2011, 06:30:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Aye, "civilization", that's the first thing I think about when I think about Afghanistan before the occupation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENvd7Zj1Qs&feature=related

Civilisation is your argument for being there. Oil is mine.
There is no Oil in Afghanistan.

There is  Oil in Turkmenistan, so if invasion was the only means they could think of in order to get their hands on it, don't you think they'd have invaded Turkmenistan itself?

Even then, I'd have thought that the following might have been slightly more attractive...
"Earlier, on May 21st, Berdymuhammedov unexpectedly signed a decree stating that companies from Turkmenistan will build an internal East-West gas pipeline allowing the transfer of gas from the biggest deposits in Turkmenistan (Dowlatabad and Yolotan) to the Caspian coast. The East-West pipeline is planned to be around 1000 km long and have a carrying capacity of 30 bn m³ annually, at a cost of between one and one and a half billion US dollars. Construction of the pipeline is to be financed by the Turkmengaz company; it will begin this June and last five years."
http://www.europarussia.com/posts/1748

P.S. Civilization is not actually my argument for being there, though it is a welcome side-effect.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:52:21 PM

* - Clue: Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India...

TAPI - Trans-Afghan Pipeline Idiot.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2011, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:52:21 PM

* - Clue: Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India...

TAPI - Trans-Afghan Pipeline Idiot.
When you've been caught out for making a stupid point, it's never a good idea to go on drawing attention to it...

I repeat:
"At the end of August Turkmenistan and Afghanistan signed an agreement on construction of the Trans-Afghanistan (TAPI) gas pipeline for the transfer of Turkmen gas to Pakistan and India"

Are you trying to tell me that NATO invaded Afghanistan in order to facilitate Turkmenistan in selling its Gas to Pakistan and India?  ::)

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 08:13:43 PM
From US government website in 1998: http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa48119.000/hfa48119_0.htm#17

QuoteI would caution that while we do support the project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries, Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do support the project.

3 years later they had imposed their own Government regime. The year after that work began.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 08:16:30 PM
Quote from: Groucho on December 20, 2011, 07:46:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFHLvs_MpoY&feature=related :o :o
I just hope that his viewers aren't as stupid as Mr. Zakaria, since his argument has more holes in it than a busted colander.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 08:16:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2011, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:52:21 PM

* - Clue: Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India...

TAPI - Trans-Afghan Pipeline Idiot.
When you've been caught out for making a stupid point, it's never a good idea to go on drawing attention to it...

I repeat:
"At the end of August Turkmenistan and Afghanistan signed an agreement on construction of the Trans-Afghanistan (TAPI) gas pipeline for the transfer of Turkmen gas to Pakistan and India"

Are you trying to tell me that NATO invaded Afghanistan in order to facilitate Turkmenistan in selling its Gas to Pakistan and India?  ::)

That is precisely why the US invaded. NATO just followed orders.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2011, 08:13:43 PM
From US government website in 1998: http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa48119.000/hfa48119_0.htm#17

QuoteI would caution that while we do support the project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries, Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do support the project.

3 years later they had imposed their own Government regime. The year after that work began.
Of course the Yanks "supported" this proposed pipeline.

Anything which reduces the world's dependence on Energy from the Gulf has got to be in their interests, esp if there are liable to be lucrative construction contracts for US companies for the building of it etc.

But the Turkmenis are also building other pipelines eg through Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan etc, without the USA invading those countries.

So I repeat my question from #703: "Are you trying to tell me that NATO invaded Afghanistan in order to facilitate Turkmenistan in selling its Gas to Pakistan and India?"

Personally, I still reckon 9/11 had slightly  more to do with it  ::)

Late Edit: Just seen your reply (#706, above) and I now accept that one of the two of us must be an idiot...  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2011, 08:32:30 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2011, 08:13:43 PM
From US government website in 1998: http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa48119.000/hfa48119_0.htm#17

QuoteI would caution that while we do support the project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries, Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do support the project.

3 years later they had imposed their own Government regime. The year after that work began.
Of course the Yanks "supported" this proposed pipeline.

Anything which reduces the world's dependence on Energy from the Gulf has got to be in their interests, esp if there are liable to be lucrative construction contracts for US companies for the building of it etc.

But the Turkmenis are also building other pipelines eg through Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan etc, without the USA invading those countries.

So I repeat my question from #703: "Are you trying to tell me that NATO invaded Afghanistan in order to facilitate Turkmenistan in selling its Gas to Pakistan and India?"

Personally, I still reckon 9/11 had slightly  more to do with it  ::)

I answered your question.

You mention other countries but did you even read my link to the Us Government site? The only regime issues regarding the pipelines, were in Afghanistan.

911 was the excuse used for the invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq. A flying school in the States tipped off the FBI and other agencies that the men who would go on to be involved in the 911 hijackings were undertaking very unusual flight training. They were paying for 767 simulator time but wanted no training for take-off or landing. The vast vast majority of pilot training for novices involved take-off emergencies and landing training.

The info was passed to the White within the 12 months running up to 911. Nothing was done about it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 20, 2011, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:29:18 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 20, 2011, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Aye, "civilization", that's the first thing I think about when I think about Afghanistan before the occupation...

Aye, like this was their first time of occupying Afghanistan...

The First Anglo-Afghan War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War)
Ah right, so you reckon that the 2001 Invasion was just a continuation of "The Great Game", then?

I suppose it is just possible that the Politicians and Generals figured that they wait 150 years for some mad fcuker to emerge from the caves of Tora Bora and attack the West, so that they'd have a pretext for exacting revenge... ::)

Ah right, so the reason that Afghanistan was such a fcuked up place in 2001 had nothing at all to do with the plundering depredations of resource rapacious powers like Britain throughout recent centuries. That's right, nothing at all!  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 20, 2011, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
The British war machine

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4009352/Sun-Military-Awards-They-cried-with-pride.html

The maimed working class with their PTSD get glittered with stardust in the company of royalty and celebrity.

And the killing goes on.
Certainly does:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8287154/Shocking-footage-emerges-of-Taliban-stoning-couple-to-death.html

Still, I'm sure this lot, for instance, will be glad to see the back of the foreign occupiers:
http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/

Bomb them into civilization?
Aye, "civilization", that's the first thing I think about when I think about Afghanistan before the occupation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENvd7Zj1Qs&feature=related

Afghanistan was f*cked long before the Yanks and the Brits turned up. It has been at war since the late 1970s.
It is a playground for India and Pakistan, Saudi, the Russians, the Americans, the Brits and the Iranians.

But the Brits and the Yanks just dragged it on for another 10 years and both countries are now effectively bankrupt.

Iraq is just as bad as Afghanistan


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2007/dec/20/iraq-the-hidden-human-costs/?pagination=false

In House to House: An Epic Memoir of War, Staff Sergeant David Bellavia—a gung-ho supporter of the Iraq war—casually recounts how in 2004, while his platoon was on just its second patrol in Iraq,
a civilian candy truck tried to merge with a column of our armored vehicles, only to get run over and squashed. The occupants were smashed beyond recognition. Our first sight of death was a man and his wife both ripped open and dismembered, their intestines strewn across shattered boxes of candy bars. The entire platoon hadn't eaten for twenty-four hours. We stopped, and as we stood guard around the wreckage, we grew increasingly hungry. Finally, I stole a few nibbles from one of the cleaner candy bars. Others wiped away the gore and fuel from the wrappers and joined me.

Maybe there was a point to wasting 3 million million dollars. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on December 21, 2011, 09:11:20 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:41:09 PM
But I hope you're not kidding yourself, either, by failing to recognise that since the invasion, life for 50%+ of the population has improved immeasurably.
P.S. The "50%" figure I quoted simply referred to the female  population of the country.

When does the US/NATO begin the war to liberate women in Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern oligarchys  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on December 21, 2011, 09:24:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2011, 09:11:20 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2011, 07:41:09 PM
But I hope you're not kidding yourself, either, by failing to recognise that since the invasion, life for 50%+ of the population has improved immeasurably.
P.S. The "50%" figure I quoted simply referred to the female  population of the country.

When does the US/NATO begin the war to liberate women in Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern oligarchys  ::)
In fairness EG stated he knows this is not the reason they went to war but it is a positive side effect.  Saudi human rights issues are scandalous.  Though they have the west by the balls so dont see relations worsening there.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on December 21, 2011, 11:00:48 AM
Wasn't hitting at EG.
Just the whole hypocrisy of the USNATO bleating on about human rights yet millions of women are treated as not really human by loads of their non democtatic friends.
Not to mention Israel being allowed to run a rogue apartheid State whom nobody is allowed to criticise.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on December 21, 2011, 11:10:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2011, 11:00:48 AM
Wasn't hitting at EG.
Just the whole hypocrisy of the USNATO bleating on about human rights yet millions of women are treated as not really human by loads of their non democtatic friends.
Not to mention Israel being allowed to run a rogue apartheid State whom nobody is allowed to criticise.
That would be my thoughts on it as well.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: saffron sam2 on December 21, 2011, 11:26:35 AM
Getting back on topic.

Saw my first poppy of the year on Friday 16th December 2011. It was being sported by a security guard at Aldergrove Airport.

Is this a record?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on December 21, 2011, 01:51:56 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on December 21, 2011, 11:26:35 AM
Getting back on topic.

Saw my first poppy of the year on Friday 16th December 2011. It was being sported by a security guard at Aldergrove Airport.

Is this a record?

He's probably wearing it in anticipation of Remembrance Day 2013
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on December 22, 2011, 01:01:36 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on December 21, 2011, 11:26:35 AM
Getting back on topic.

Saw my first poppy of the year on Friday 16th December 2011. It was being sported by a security guard at Aldergrove Airport.

Is this a record?

No! Woman in Matlins in Newtownards wearing one, Wednesday 21st Dec. Not one of the pin badges you can forget about but a full poppy. :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on December 22, 2011, 10:09:57 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on December 21, 2011, 11:26:35 AM
Getting back on topic.

Saw my first poppy of the year on Friday 16th December 2011. It was being sported by a security guard at Aldergrove Airport.

Is this a record?

Are we counting those car window stickers?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: saffron sam2 on December 22, 2011, 10:53:14 AM
Quote from: AQMP on December 22, 2011, 10:09:57 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on December 21, 2011, 11:26:35 AM
Getting back on topic.

Saw my first poppy of the year on Friday 16th December 2011. It was being sported by a security guard at Aldergrove Airport.

Is this a record?

Are we counting those car window stickers?

No, must be on the wearer's lapel or similar in the absence of a lapel.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on December 22, 2011, 11:40:51 AM
Personally I think they should be essential equipment for all citizens to wear all year round in support of our boys.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on December 22, 2011, 02:11:05 PM
Our boys tend to be ignored when they become disabled

http://www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatosveterans.html

It's very shameful when you think about all the crap about serving the nation.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 22, 2011, 05:57:31 PM
Lots of Liverpool black-cabs have them displayed on their grill all year round. I appreciated the gesture as it allows me to know which black-cabs will never get my business no matter how cold or wet I may be.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on December 23, 2011, 12:47:55 AM
[]

No! Woman in Matlins in Newtownards wearing one, Wednesday 21st Dec. Not one of the pin badges you can forget about but a full poppy. :)
[/quote]
Hmm. The 16th of December is before the 21st of December.
[/quote]

See what you mean there but the 16th and the one i seen  must be left overs, so will be hard to beat as the last one of the year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ulick on September 21, 2012, 04:35:11 PM
Here we go again. Spotted this on Twitter earlier - a full 50 days before the day itself. The man doing the waffling is Douglas Bain, former Chief Election Officer, quango whore, currently of the Parades Commission, Association of Electoral Administrators, National Security Certificates Appeals Tribunal and Assembly Standards Commissioner.

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/659814778.png?key=521374&Expires=1348242365&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=Bw5dsYTEJwxM7yCt~xTOiCTRF5bt5cVTW4eWt~2t4SoZdik05XHfYjNdTcvpXv0dd7csnjgpX5QA~4~tgylk1JGGBvedQEpAXpl2NM3yQIPxi4daK0y1Irk~fcq2BzvBdd5lMcE9nWdQhfaZI0teOoaTSPuIPlsbmVuDCQonc6U_)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on September 21, 2012, 05:07:05 PM
All I see is a red x
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on September 21, 2012, 05:27:54 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on September 21, 2012, 05:07:05 PM
All I see is a red x

I can see it, maybe it's just a photo from, say last year.
Or is it a recent photo?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on September 21, 2012, 08:29:26 PM
Fcuk not that time already!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ulick on September 21, 2012, 09:12:07 PM
Quote from: dillinger on September 21, 2012, 05:27:54 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on September 21, 2012, 05:07:05 PM
All I see is a red x

I can see it, maybe it's just a photo from, say last year.
Or is it a recent photo?

No that's him on the telly today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dec on September 21, 2012, 09:30:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 21, 2012, 08:29:26 PM
Fcuk not that time already!

Yep, time to start whining about people wearing poppies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Saffrongael on September 21, 2012, 09:36:05 PM
Quote from: dec on September 21, 2012, 09:30:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 21, 2012, 08:29:26 PM
Fcuk not that time already!

Yep, time to start whining about people wearing poppies.

Nothing like going out of your way to get offended.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on September 21, 2012, 09:38:28 PM
Gonna be a bit different in Liverpool this year compared to Shantallow in Derry!!!!lol!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on September 21, 2012, 10:27:35 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 21, 2012, 09:36:05 PM
Quote from: dec on September 21, 2012, 09:30:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 21, 2012, 08:29:26 PM
Fcuk not that time already!

Yep, time to start whining about people wearing poppies.

Nothing like going out of your way to get offended.
+1
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on September 22, 2012, 03:09:33 AM
Don't think it's a case of people being offended by the poppy, think it's a case of people being offended by people who wear poppies being offended by people who don't wear poppies... Which is ironic cos people who wear poppies tell us at the drop of a hat that they are remembering people who fought against facism while behaving like facists because others don't want to wear a poppy. These people also tend to forget that the Nazis and Mussolini's crowd weren't the only facists...have they never heard of the British Empire? Yep, it's that time of year again, poor Donna Traynor...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: southdown on October 31, 2012, 10:20:38 AM
I see Ryanair's Michael O'Leary wearing one on the telly this morning.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on October 31, 2012, 11:01:57 AM
http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/view.m?id=15&gid=%2Fcommentisfree%2F2012%2Foct%2F16%2Ffirst-world-war-imperial-bloodbath&cat=commentisfree#.UJEBGx6I8WZ.facebook (http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/view.m?id=15&gid=%2Fcommentisfree%2F2012%2Foct%2F16%2Ffirst-world-war-imperial-bloodbath&cat=commentisfree#.UJEBGx6I8WZ.facebook)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on October 31, 2012, 11:25:32 AM
"Harry Patch, the last surviving British soldier from the trenches, who died at the age of 111 in 2009."

These people get paid to write.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on October 31, 2012, 11:35:19 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on October 31, 2012, 11:30:08 AM
A side effect of this time of year has been some excellent documentaries on BBC4 on WII.

A great programme on Churchill totally debunked him as the great war leader, referred to his failure in WWI and how he was too afraid to invade Europe via France as on D Day.  He preferred to attack the soft underbelly of Nazi Europe through North Africa and Italy losing tens of thousands of allied soldiers on the way.  Only forced into D Day by Stalin and Americans!

Also the Nazis, a warning from history is being re-run on BBC4.

Saw the one about Churchill, was excellent. I love the documentaries about WWII.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on October 31, 2012, 11:40:53 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2012, 11:25:32 AM
"Harry Patch, the last surviving British soldier from the trenches, who died at the age of 111 in 2009."

These people get paid to write.

Good one Hardy. I actually did LOL.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on October 31, 2012, 11:41:00 AM
Any good podcasts? I love documentaries about WWI and WWII. WWI was scary shit. It was like a meat grinder for people. Gallipoli, The Somme, Ypres etc. The greatest war poem of all time must be In Flanders Fields.

In Flanders Fields
   
by John McCrae

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place, and in the sky,
The larks, still bravely singing, fly,
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead; short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe!
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high!
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


Lieutenant Colonel John Alexander McCrae, MD (November 30, 1872 – January 28, 1918) was a Canadian poet, physician, author, artist and soldier during World War I and a surgeon during the Second Battle of Ypres, in Belgium. He is best known for writing the famous war memorial poem "In Flanders Fields".

Though various legends have developed as to the inspiration for the poem, the most commonly held belief is that McCrae wrote "In Flanders Fields" on May 3 1915, the day after presiding over the funeral and burial of his friend Lieutenant Alex Helmer, who had been killed during the Second Battle of Ypres. The poem was written as he sat upon the back of a medical field ambulance near an advance dressing post at Essex Farm, just north of Ypres. The poppy, which was a central feature of the poem, grew in great numbers in the spoiled earth of the battlefields and cemeteries of Flanders. McCrae later discarded the poem, but it was saved by a fellow officer and sent in to Punch magazine, which published it later that year.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 31, 2012, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 31, 2012, 11:41:00 AM
Any good podcasts? I love documentaries about WWI and WWII. WWI was scary shit. It was like a meat grinder for people. Gallipoli, The Somme, Ypres etc. The greatest war poem of all time must be In Flanders Fields.

In Flanders Fields
   
by John McCrae

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place, and in the sky,
The larks, still bravely singing, fly,
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead; short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe!
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high!
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


Lieutenant Colonel John Alexander McCrae, MD (November 30, 1872 – January 28, 1918) was a Canadian poet, physician, author, artist and soldier during World War I and a surgeon during the Second Battle of Ypres, in Belgium. He is best known for writing the famous war memorial poem "In Flanders Fields".

Though various legends have developed as to the inspiration for the poem, the most commonly held belief is that McCrae wrote "In Flanders Fields" on May 3 1915, the day after presiding over the funeral and burial of his friend Lieutenant Alex Helmer, who had been killed during the Second Battle of Ypres. The poem was written as he sat upon the back of a medical field ambulance near an advance dressing post at Essex Farm, just north of Ypres. The poppy, which was a central feature of the poem, grew in great numbers in the spoiled earth of the battlefields and cemeteries of Flanders. McCrae later discarded the poem, but it was saved by a fellow officer and sent in to Punch magazine, which published it later that year.
Dunno if these can be downloaded or not...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/collections/ww2/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/collections/ww2/)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on October 31, 2012, 02:43:33 PM
Cheers lads. Anyone downloading the 'Voices from World War I' series, uploaded by the British Imperial War Museums. It's a series of interviews from the archives, recorded with people who were obbviously elederly at the time of recording, but who could give eye witness accounts of things like going to the front, trench warfare, gas attacks, Ypres, Gallipoli, etc etc. The podcasts are short, but very poignant in my opinion. More so when you realise that all of these people are dead at this point, and at least their experiences and thoughts have been captured for posterity.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on October 31, 2012, 02:54:04 PM
One of the weird things about World War I is that so many of the main combatants no longer exist. Imperial Russia fell, partly as a consequence of the war. The Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires fell. The British Empire won, but it's gone now. The Edwardians would not recognise their country now. No how, no way. Germany - well. Resilient bunch, the Germans.  :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tyssam5 on October 31, 2012, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on October 31, 2012, 02:54:04 PM
One of the weird things about World War I is that so many of the main combatants no longer exist. Imperial Russia fell, partly as a consequence of the war. The Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires fell. The British Empire won, but it's gone now. The Edwardians would not recognise their country now. No how, no way. Germany - well. Resilient bunch, the Germans.  :)

German empire is gone too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2012, 03:05:39 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on October 31, 2012, 02:54:04 PM
One of the weird things about World War I is that so many of the main combatants no longer exist. Imperial Russia fell, partly as a consequence of the war. The Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires fell. The British Empire won, but it's gone now. The Edwardians would not recognise their country now. No how, no way. Germany - well. Resilient bunch, the Germans.  :)
the Germans lost one third of the land they had in 1914....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rosnarun on October 31, 2012, 03:07:34 PM
not gone but modernised
germany carries more influence now then pre WW1 or  WW2 where as england's empire and influence has come down to Scotland wales cornwall and NI and smattering of Islands
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 04:47:45 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on October 31, 2012, 11:30:08 AMA great programme on Churchill totally debunked him as the great war leader, referred to his failure in WWI
I could have sworn I watched the programme you're referring to, except that I drew rather different conclusions from the one I saw.

First of all, it did not "totally debunk him as the great war leader" [sic], since it did not address that topic. Rather it analysed his record as a military strategist (or more specifically one campaign from WWII).

On which point the programme was correct - the attack on "Europe's soft underbelly" (Italy) was indeed a grievous error, if not quite on a par with eg the total shambles which was Gallipolli in WWI. 

However, Churchill's greatness during WWII lay not in his military prowess (or lack of), but rather in his political achievements, which stand comparison with every other political leader anywhere in the entire conflict. In fact, had it not been for his leadership of the anti-appeasement faction in Britain during the late 30's and early war years, it is very likely that the UK would either have concluded a Treaty with Hitler to keep us out of the war entirely, or have capitulated during 1939/40 under Nazi pressure.

And had that happened, there is every possibility that, freed from the need to fight a war on two fronts, Germany would successfully have conquered the USSR, before the USA was eventually drawn into the War in the Far East after Pearl Harbour.

Which is not to say that Britain, or even the USA, "won" WWII - if anything, that accolade must go to the Soviets. But had the UK not held the line until September 1940, and the USSR had consequently been beaten , the world would have been a very different place, and not in a good way.

And considering few if any of Britain's strategic interests were served by getting involved in a (continental) European war, and very many Britons were war-weary after WWI, Churchill's gargantuan efforts were absolutely critical to buying the USSR time.

Quote from: Take Your Points on October 31, 2012, 11:30:08 AM... he [Churchill] was too afraid to invade Europe via France as on D Day.  He preferred to attack the soft underbelly of Nazi Europe through North Africa and Italy losing tens of thousands of allied soldiers on the way.
He was not "afraid" to attack Western Europe before June 1944, or anything like it.

Rather his strategy was informed by two overriding considerations. First, he prioritised his country's interests in defending Egypt/Suez (i.e. the route to India and the Far Eastern colonies) over Britain's need to take the war directly to Germany. And whether you think this misjudged or not, the fact that he managed to persuade the USA to go along with this shows the power of his personal leadership.

Second, he decided - entirely correctly, imo - that the Allies were simply not capable of launching a successful D-Day invasion before the Summer of 1944, due to a basic shortage of men and arms etc. And on this point, both FDR and Eisenhower completely agreed, which was why they joined Churchill in resisting until they were ready the increasingly desperate demands of Stalin.

Quote from: Take Your Points on October 31, 2012, 11:30:08 AMOnly forced into D Day by Stalin and Americans!
Utter tosh!
Churchill was as desperate as anyone to see the Nazi menace destroyed once and for all, not least Stalin (duped into the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of August 1939) or the Americans (outside the War entirely until December 1041). Rather, as I argue above, he showed rather surer military judgement in concluding that any earlier Allied invasion of France would be likely to fail. As it was, June 1944 was close enough.

Moreover, it is short-sighted to blame Churchill for delaying D Day until 1944, whilst ignoring three other of his contributions to relieve Stalin/Continental Europe.
The first of these were the Arctic Convoys, where the British Royal and Merchant Navies suffered terrible losses and privations to keep open a vital lifeline to Murmansk and Archangel;
Second was the North African campaign (and Italy), which drew considerable German resources away from the Eastern Front;
Third was the Allied air bombing campaign of Germany, which notwithstanding the terrible civilian casualties, was credited by Speer no less, as having drawn critical military resources from the attack on the USSR. (I think he described it as "thousands of anti-aircraft guns and hundreds of thousands of men").

All of which, imo, needs to be considered when assessing Churchill's determination to attack the Germans through Italy in 1943.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 31, 2012, 06:17:13 PM
'not least Stalin (duped into the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of August 1939), or the Americans (outside the War entirely until December 1041)'

I'd love to hear your take on just how Stalin was duped into anything, let alone his pact with Adolf ... I'd also be interested to hear why the Normans didn't shit themselves and think twice about crossing the Channel considering the Yanks were itching to get at them
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 31, 2012, 06:20:36 PM
Quote from: southdown on October 31, 2012, 10:20:38 AM
I see Ryanair's Michael O'Leary wearing one on the telly this morning.

Just when you thought you couldn't hate the wee bastard any more than you do already
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 31, 2012, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 06:20:36 PM
Quote from: southdown on October 31, 2012, 10:20:38 AM
I see Ryanair's Michael O'Leary wearing one on the telly this morning.

Just when you thought you couldn't hate the wee b**tard any more than you do already

O'Leary is a businessman. He can't afford to compromise his profits.

But the poppy fascism is back again. People being forced to support the war machine.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 07:53:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 06:17:13 PM
'not least Stalin (duped into the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of August 1939), or the Americans (outside the War entirely until December 1041)'

I'd love to hear your take on just how Stalin was duped into anything, let alone his pact with Adolf ... I'd also be interested to hear why the Normans didn't shit themselves and think twice about crossing the Channel considering the Yanks were itching to get at them
I have no idea what your 'Normans' and 'Yanks' comment is supposed to mean.

But if you think that Stalin wasn't duped, then consider this. Even before WWII broke out, Soviet spies in the West provided credible evidence to Moscow of Hitler's intention to attack the USSR. Subsequently they (and military analysts) became aware that Germany was massing troops near the Soviet border, in preparation for Barbarossa. Stalin did nothing, preferring to believe German assurances that they were being kept there to protect them from Allied attack in the West. When the Nazis did attack, Stalin did not believe it, refusing to mobilise troops to their Western border for days, even as the Germans had crossed it. Indeed it is rumoured that Stalin didn't even leave his Dacha for 3 days, so overwhelmed was he by what he was hearing, leading to further rumours that he suffered a minor nervous breakdown. Most significantly, all those who knew or suspected of Barbarossa were purged, and the official records destroyed.

As for how he was duped/deceived by Hitler, there are a number of theories; for a handy synopsis of some of the more credible recent studies, try this, including this comment:
"Yet whatever Stalin was thinking -- whether he deluded himself or was deluded by Hitler -- the fact remains that he, and he alone, was to blame for the greatest military defeat in Russian history"
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E4D71638F931A25755C0A9639C8B63&pagewanted=1
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:53 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 07:53:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 06:17:13 PM
'not least Stalin (duped into the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of August 1939), or the Americans (outside the War entirely until December 1041)'

I'd love to hear your take on just how Stalin was duped into anything, let alone his pact with Adolf ... I'd also be interested to hear why the Normans didn't shit themselves and think twice about crossing the Channel considering the Yanks were itching to get at them
I have no idea what your 'Normans' and 'Yanks' comment is supposed to mean.

But if you think that Stalin wasn't duped, then consider this. Even before WWII broke out, Soviet spies in the West provided credible evidence to Moscow of Hitler's intention to attack the USSR. Subsequently they (and military analysts) became aware that Germany was massing troops near the Soviet border, in preparation for Barbarossa. When the Nazis attacked, Stalin did not believe it, refusing even to mobilise troops to their Western border for days, even as the Germans had crossed it. Indeed it is rumoured that Stalin didn't even leave his Dacha for 3 days, so overwhelmed was he by what he was hearing, leading to further rumours that he suffered a minor nervous breakdown. Most significantly, all those who knew or suspected of Barbarossa were purged, and the official records destroyed.

As for how he was duped/deceived by Hitler, there are a number of theories; for a handy synopsis of some of the more credible recent studies, try this, including this comment:
"Yet whatever Stalin was thinking -- whether he deluded himself or was deluded by Hitler -- the fact remains that he, and he alone, was to blame for the greatest military defeat in Russian history"
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E4D71638F931A25755C0A9639C8B63&pagewanted=1

Barbarossa happened 2 years after the signing of the pact. The pact suited both the Nazis and the Soviets as it gave Stalin time to build up his war machine to parry the inevitable German invasion. Do you really believe Stalin didn't know what Germany's intentions were? A cursory look at Mein Kampf would have left no one in any doubt about what Adolf was planning (not to mention the information coming from the Soviet spy, still not outed to this day, at the very top of German OKW (military command). Doing a deal with Stalin, his sworn enemy, suited Hitler too as it protected his rear for unleashing war on the west until he was ready to invade the USSR, which was always his intention and is what drove him, as Stalin knew well ... Uncle Joe's reaction as described had more to do with his shock that the Nazis invaded a bit earlier than he had anticipated, not the invasion itself, he knew that was coming all right.

You're a millenia out over Roosevelt declaring war
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on October 31, 2012, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 04:47:45 PM
I could have sworn I watched the programme you're referring to, except that I drew rather different conclusions from the one I saw.

I wasn't drawing my own conclusions I was just repeating the conclusions of Professor David Reynolds.  I don't think you watched the same programme. 
No, I remember the name (Reynolds), it was the same programme.

Quote from: Take Your Points on October 31, 2012, 07:50:56 PM

The blurb on the programme from BBC.......

The British fought the Second World War to defeat Hitler. This film asks why, then, did they spend so much of the conflict battling through North Africa and Italy?

Historian David Reynolds reassesses Winston Churchill's conviction that the Mediterranean was the 'soft underbelly' of Hitler's Europe. Travelling to Egypt and Italian battlefields like Cassino, scene of some of the worst carnage in western Europe, he shows how, in reality, the 'soft underbelly' became a dark and dangerous obsession for Churchill.
A more accurate blurb would be:
"Britain and France declared war on Germany in 1939 to defeat Nazism. But by the time of the Italian campaign in 1943, Japan had already attacked and captured Britain's colonies in the Far East and threatened India, so that Churchill felt compelled to switch his priorities to Egypt and the Suez Canal. But with the USSR demanding that the Allies launch a Second Front in Western Europe, before Churchill and the Americans thought it feasible, he persuaded the USA that by attacking Germany via Italy, the same effect could be achieved. As it happens, he (and the Americans) severely underestimated the difficulty in fighting their way through Italy; nonetheless it satisfied Churchill's other priority, that of protecting Royal Navy access to Suez via the Mediterranean "

But I guess that would have been too long to constitute a "blurb"...  ::)

Quote from: Take Your Points on October 31, 2012, 07:50:56 PM
Reynolds reveals a prime minister very different from the jaw-jutting bulldog of Britain's 'finest hour' in 1940 - a leader who was politically vulnerable at home, desperate to shore up a crumbling British empire abroad, losing faith in his army and even ready to deceive his American allies if it might delay fighting head to head against the Germans in northern France. The film marks the seventieth anniversary of the Battle of El Alamein in 1942.[/i]
Of course Churchill was a different man by 1943 from the man who led the Battle of Britain in 1940 - he was coming up to his 70th Birthday, with heart problems and having just been through three years of almost continuous disaster and defeat. And by the end of the War in 1945, he was completely worn out
No-one now believes any different.
And yes, he was "politically vulnerable at home" - he was the man who was seen as personally responsible for leading Britain into a War which had seen disasters like Dunkirk, Singapore and Tobruk, during which he was having to lead a Coalition Government.
And if he did "lose faith in his army", it was with very good cause, considering that they had lost every significant engagment before El Alamein (Battle of Britain excepted). But the point is that he recognised this, replaced his failing Generals with better men, had the political nous always to maintain the best possible relations with a (not-entirely-reliable) American ally, plus the wisdom and good grace to accept that the USA must eventually take the lead in the liberation of Europe (eg readily agreeing to Eisenhower as Supreme Allied Commander in Europe).
As for his "willingness to deceive his American allies re D Day", there were few world leaders more shifty and duplicitous than FDR(!) and besides, Eisenhower at least recognised the folly of launching D Day before 1944.

But hey, if you want to take your knowledge of Churchill's conduct of the War from a single one hour documentary concentrating on a single campaign, then knock yourself out.

I guess that would be preferable to your seizing upon such "evidence" in order to reinforce your prejudices against one of the greatest of British leaders...  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 08:30:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 31, 2012, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 06:20:36 PM
Quote from: southdown on October 31, 2012, 10:20:38 AM
I see Ryanair's Michael O'Leary wearing one on the telly this morning.

Just when you thought you couldn't hate the wee b**tard any more than you do already

O'Leary is a businessman. He can't afford to compromise his profits.

But the poppy fascism is back again. People being forced to support the war machine.
Do you honestly think that a character like O'Leary would feel compelled to submit to (so-called) poppy fascism?

You know, this guy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/31/ryanairs-oleary-blasts-customer-for-being-bloody-english_n_2048829.html

P.S. Can you imagine the fuss if an English airline chief had muttered some comment about "the bloody Irish"?  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 09:23:43 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:53 PM
Barbarossa happened 2 years after the signing of the pact.
It suited Stalin because he was taken in by Hitler's offer to carve up central Europe and the Baltics between them, whilst Hitler waged his own war against France and Britain. You know, the war that Germany fought for the two years before Barbarossa...

Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:53 PMThe pact suited both the Nazis and the Soviets as it gave Stalin time to build up his war machine to parry the inevitable German invasion. Do you really believe Stalin didn't know what Germany's intentions were?
If that [bold] is the case, then why didn't Stalin build up his troop in readiness for the "inevitable" German attack? Why do you think the Germans achieved such stunning, almost unimaginable, success in the early months of Barbarossa? I mean, Stalin didn't even send troops to the Western borders after the Nazis DID invade, for nearly a week ffs!

Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:53 PMA cursory look at Mein Kampf would have left no one in any doubt about what Adolf was planning
Stalin was hardly the only political leader to ignore, or be unaware of what Hitler had written in Mein Kampf in 1925 - half the politicians in Germany were taken in by him ffs!

Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:53 PM(not to mention the information coming from the Soviet spy, still not outed to this day, at the very top of German OKW (military command).
Stalin had every opportunity to make himself aware of Hitler's true intentions, right up to, and even a few days after(!) Barbarossa was launched.
But whether he had genuinely believed Hitler's assurances, contained in the secret protocol to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, or whether he believed he had outwitted him, he was both unable and unwilling to accept evidence to the contrary coming from his diplomatic, military and intelligence services, since that would have revealed the extent to which he had been duped.
So instead he (typically) resorted to purging and suppressing these 'bearers of bad news', until the Wehrmacht actually were in the Soviet Union and Hitler's intentions were unmistakeable to all.

Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:53 PMDoing a deal with Stalin, his sworn enemy, suited Hitler too as it protected his rear for unleashing war on the west until he was ready to invade the USSR, which was always his intention and is what drove him,
Of course it suited Hitler, no-one is denying that. That, after all, is why he readied his armies months, even years in advance for the invasion of the USSR. Unlike Stalin.

Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:53 PM... as Stalin knew well
That would be the same Stalin who did virtually nothing during two years to ready the USSR for a Nazi attack from the West, preferring instead to concentrate on his military campaigning against the Japanese in the Far East (see the lead-up to the Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact signed in April 1941).
And might it not be that just as he didn't want to have to fight wars on two fronts, he didn't believe that Hitler would dare to attempt to do so, either? 

Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:53 PMUncle Joe's reaction as described had more to do with his shock that the Nazis invaded a bit earlier than he had anticipated, not the invasion itself, he knew that was coming all right.
"... a bit earlier"?
What, a month? Three months? A year?
I'm afraid you're falling for Stalin apologists' post-war revisionism, and pretty desperate revisionism at that, for the simple fact is, the German attack took Stalin completely by surprise.
Which is not the same as claiming that he believed Hitler could never have gone to war with the USSR, rather that in June 1941, the possibility seemed so remote as to be capable of being discounted for the foreseeable future.

Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 08:23:53 PMYou're a millenia out over Roosevelt declaring war
Nope, still no idea what you're blethering about, not even the spelling or grammar*.


* - "millenia" [sic] is plural, by the way
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 31, 2012, 09:29:09 PM
'* - "millenia" [sic] is plural, by the way'

US entered the war in 1941, by the way, oh infallible arsehole
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 10:01:18 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 09:29:09 PM
'* - "millenia" [sic] is plural, by the way'

US entered the war in 1941, by the way, oh infallible arsehole
Ah right, I see now that I typed "1041", instead of "1941".

I guess that that negates everything I've observed about Churchill, Stalin, Hitler and WWII generally, whilst entirely vindicating you.

Congratulations.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 31, 2012, 10:12:42 PM
I See people wearing poppies at work and sold in at work, personally it never bothered me. maybe the fact that it was highjacked for the British military conflicts in recent years, which is strange as it was originated to provide funds for World War one Veterans. Now any conflict involving England now and in the past seemed to be remembered on remembrance day instead of WW1 as it was to be intended
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 10:31:33 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 31, 2012, 10:12:42 PM
See poppies been wore at work and sold in at work, personally it never bothered me. maybe the fact that it was highjacked for the British military conflicts, in recent years is strange as it was originated to provide funds for World War open Veterans. Now any conflict involving England now and in the past seemed to be remembered on remembrance day instead of WW1 as it was to be intended
Yes [bold], though it wasn't originally a British idea:

Where did the idea to sell poppies come from?

The first official poppy appeal was held 85 years ago in the UK. But when - and why - was the first poppy sold?

The red poppy worn around the world in remembrance of battlefield deaths has nothing to do with the blood shed in the brutal clashes of World War I.

Instead it symbolises the wild flowers that were the first plants to grow in the churned-up soil of soldiers' graves in Belgium and northern France. Little else could grow in the blasted soil that became rich in lime from the rubble.

Their paper-thin red petals were the first signs of life and renewal, and in 1915 inspired Canadian doctor John McCrae to pen perhaps the most famous wartime poem:

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row...


It was this poem which inspired an American war secretary to sell the first poppies to raise money for ex-soldiers.

Two days before the Armistice was declared at 11am on 11 November 1918, Moina Michael was working in the YMCA Overseas War Secretaries' headquarters during its annual conference in New York.

While flipping through a copy of Ladies Home Journal, she came across McCrae's poem, and was so moved that she vowed to always wear a red poppy in remembrance.

That same day she was given $10 by the conference delegates in thanks for her hard work, which she spent on 25 silk poppies. Returning to the office with one pinned to her coat, she distributed the rest amongst the delegates.

Since this group had given her the money with which to buy the flowers, Ms Michael saw this as the first sale of memorial poppies. She then threw her efforts into campaigning to get the poppy adopted as a national remembrance symbol.

Two years later, the National American Legion's conference proclaimed the poppy as such. Among those at the conference was Madame E Guerin, from France, who saw poppy sales as a way to raise money for children in war-ravaged areas of France.

Having organised the sale of millions of poppies made by French widows in the United States, in 1921 she sent her poppy sellers to London.

Field Marshall Douglas Haig, a senior commander during WWI and a founder of the Royal British Legion, was sold on the idea (as were veterans' groups in Canada, Australia and New Zealand).

So that autumn, the newly-established legion sold its first remembrance poppies. And so the tradition began.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6133312.stm


Anyhow, why is it remarkable, much less objectionable, that a scheme to raise money for the wounded and bereaved of one war, should then be extended to do the same for those suffering in subsequent wars?

I can see how someone might be troubled by such a scheme appearing to glorify war generally, but if it's acceptable for one (legal) War, surely it's acceptable for all (legal) wars?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 31, 2012, 10:46:14 PM
Haig`s one of the major reasons so many soldiers had poppies on their graves to start with. He caused so many of their deaths with men running headlong into German machine guns. Great leader indeed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 01, 2012, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 31, 2012, 10:01:18 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2012, 09:29:09 PM
'* - "millenia" [sic] is plural, by the way'

US entered the war in 1941, by the way, oh infallible arsehole
Ah right, I see now that I typed "1041", instead of "1941".

I guess that that negates everything I've observed about Churchill, Stalin, Hitler and WWII generally, whilst entirely vindicating you.

Well, you're the king when it comes to pointing out others errors, now away and stick the rest of your head up your arse, finish the job and do us all a favour

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 01, 2012, 02:37:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 31, 2012, 10:12:42 PM
See poppies been wore at work

Christ help us!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 01, 2012, 02:40:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2012, 02:37:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 31, 2012, 10:12:42 PM
See poppies been wore at work

Christ help us!

Watch out folks, here comes the (http://www.benreed.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/grammar_police.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 01, 2012, 03:03:35 PM
I presume you meant "here COME ..."
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 01, 2012, 03:26:27 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2012, 03:03:35 PM
I presume you meant "here COME ..."

No deliberate to annoy :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 01, 2012, 06:17:15 PM
well with 10,000 plus posts he hasn't`t got much else to to. Spell check away,lol
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2012, 12:27:22 AM
Apparently The Northern Whig turned away some punters wearin poppys. Can kind of see their point on the door as it is an immediate identifier like a Rangers jersey and better to nip any potential hassles in the bud.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 05, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
One less candidate for me to give a preference to in the next election  >:(

A Shannonside Fine Gael TD says the country needs to show solidarity with the Irishmen who fought in World War One.

Frank Feighan will this week become the first TD to wear the poppy in the Dáil for 16 years.

More than 200 thousand Irish men are thought to have fought in the British army in the First World War, with tens of thousands more enlisting in the second.

Roscommon South Leitrim's Frank Feighan says wearing the poppy is often seen as a very British symbol, but he thinks it's time to move on.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: spuds on November 05, 2012, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
One less candidate for me to give a preference to in the next election  >:(

A Shannonside Fine Gael TD says the country needs to show solidarity with the Irishmen who fought in World War One.

Frank Feighan will this week become the first TD to wear the poppy in the Dáil for 16 years.

More than 200 thousand Irish men are thought to have fought in the British army in the First World War, with tens of thousands more enlisting in the second.

Roscommon South Leitrim's Frank Feighan says wearing the poppy is often seen as a very British symbol, but he thinks it's time to move on.

Definitely time for Feighan to move on.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 05, 2012, 12:16:40 PM
Can someone ask Frank Feighan why the Germans do not wear poppies?

PS. If Frank Feighan wants to be more british, then why doesnt he just move to Engerland?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: aontroim on November 05, 2012, 12:37:09 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2012, 12:27:22 AM
Apparently The Northern Whig turned away some punters wearin poppys. Can kind of see their point on the door as it is an immediate identifier like a Rangers jersey and better to nip any potential hassles in the bud.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Northern-Whig-Bar/91226568579

At least their 'faux pas' might have taken some of the totally unwarranted heat off Rafters in Swatragh who were getting hammered for something an ex-employee said about the recent dissident activity.

http://www.facebook.com/FRIELS.BAR.AND.RAFTERS.RESTAURANT

Facebook can be both an ally and an enemy to a business!  Some of these headcases just don't realise the harm their posts can make at times.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2012, 12:54:31 PM
Quote from: spuds on November 05, 2012, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
One less candidate for me to give a preference to in the next election  >:(

A Shannonside Fine Gael TD says the country needs to show solidarity with the Irishmen who fought in World War One.

Frank Feighan will this week become the first TD to wear the poppy in the Dáil for 16 years.

More than 200 thousand Irish men are thought to have fought in the British army in the First World War, with tens of thousands more enlisting in the second.

Roscommon South Leitrim's Frank Feighan says wearing the poppy is often seen as a very British symbol, but he thinks it's time to move on.

Definitely time for Feighan to move on.

Well he shouldn't be allowed in, as far as I understand TDs and Senators are barred from wearing symbols into either chamber.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2012, 07:30:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
One less candidate for me to give a preference to in the next election  >:(

A Shannonside Fine Gael TD says the country needs to show solidarity with the Irishmen who fought in World War One.

Frank Feighan will this week become the first TD to wear the poppy in the Dáil for 16 years.

More than 200 thousand Irish men are thought to have fought in the British army in the First World War, with tens of thousands more enlisting in the second.

Roscommon South Leitrim's Frank Feighan says wearing the poppy is often seen as a very British symbol, but he thinks it's time to move on.

Roscommon hospital mustn't mean THAT much to you then. Afterall he voted for it's closure/downgrading at the time etc. In response to mghu's assertion, the Oireachtas sees no problem with him wearing it...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 05, 2012, 08:50:34 PM

Feigan should be commended, you Mexicans are going to have to get used to shit like this for when a United Ireland does eventually come along. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2012, 09:30:53 PM
QuoteCan someone ask Frank Feighan why the Germans do not wear poppies?

Not only do the Germans not wear poppies, but the Belgians, French, Austrians, Czech, Slovaks, Slovenes, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, Turks, Italians, Hungarians, Serbs or even the Bulgarians do not either. But as always Ireland has to be different by not wearing one!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2012, 11:05:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2012, 07:30:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
One less candidate for me to give a preference to in the next election  >:(

A Shannonside Fine Gael TD says the country needs to show solidarity with the Irishmen who fought in World War One.

Frank Feighan will this week become the first TD to wear the poppy in the Dáil for 16 years.

More than 200 thousand Irish men are thought to have fought in the British army in the First World War, with tens of thousands more enlisting in the second.

Roscommon South Leitrim's Frank Feighan says wearing the poppy is often seen as a very British symbol, but he thinks it's time to move on.

Roscommon hospital mustn't mean THAT much to you then. Afterall he voted for it's closure/downgrading at the time etc. In response to mghu's assertion, the Oireachtas sees no problem with him wearing it...

Is that a myth Farrandeelin about symbols being barred from chambers of the Oireachtas?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: laoislad on November 06, 2012, 07:41:42 PM
Roy Keane wearing it loud and proud on ITV tonight.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 06, 2012, 08:26:52 PM
Quote from: laoislad on November 06, 2012, 07:41:42 PM
Roy Keane wearing it loud and proud on ITV tonight.

Tomas Mac Curtain would be raging ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2012, 08:35:33 PM
QuoteRoy Keane wearing it loud and proud on ITV tonight.

Roy is not the type to cause a fuss.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 07, 2012, 07:45:43 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2012, 08:35:33 PM
QuoteRoy Keane wearing it loud and proud on ITV tonight.

Roy is not the type to cause a fuss.

Not that I care but this seems to go against type does it not???


It's a feckin poppy, who cares?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: camanchero on November 07, 2012, 09:59:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
One less candidate for me to give a preference to in the next election  >:(

A Shannonside Fine Gael TD says the country needs to show solidarity with the Irishmen who fought in World War One.

Frank Feighan will this week become the first TD to wear the poppy in the Dáil for 16 years.

More than 200 thousand Irish men are thought to have fought in the British army in the First World War, with tens of thousands more enlisting in the second.

Roscommon South Leitrim's Frank Feighan says wearing the poppy is often seen as a very British symbol, but he thinks it's time to move on.
not the first mayoman to wear a poppy in th dail.
I think Emmett Stagg did a number of years ago among a few others who decided to do it at that time.
I also think that I heard that symbols were banned from Dail etc , but in true Irish fashion, laws are never policed or enforced.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 07, 2012, 10:05:23 AM
Party symbols are banned, anything else is allowed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 07, 2012, 10:33:55 AM
Like most other recent years poppies are pretty much few and far between in Enniskillen, though there is a ceremony to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the bomb tomorrow, so I'd expect to see the number increase significantly.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 07, 2012, 03:23:51 PM
This boy Feighan wearing a poppy in the Dail is aimed at one thing only...raising his profile and is disrespectful to the very emblem he espouses.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 07, 2012, 03:35:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 07, 2012, 03:23:51 PM
This boy Feighan wearing a poppy in the Dail is aimed at one thing only...raising his profile and is disrespectful to the very emblem he espouses.

Im sure theyll be raging in london
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 07, 2012, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: camanchero on November 07, 2012, 09:59:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
One less candidate for me to give a preference to in the next election  >:(

A Shannonside Fine Gael TD says the country needs to show solidarity with the Irishmen who fought in World War One.

Frank Feighan will this week become the first TD to wear the poppy in the Dáil for 16 years.

More than 200 thousand Irish men are thought to have fought in the British army in the First World War, with tens of thousands more enlisting in the second.

Roscommon South Leitrim's Frank Feighan says wearing the poppy is often seen as a very British symbol, but he thinks it's time to move on.
not the first mayoman to wear a poppy in th dail.


I wish he was a fcukin rhubarb after this  >:(

I presume the fact that South Leitrim won't be in with ros next time around partly influenced him with this nonsense.

If he for whatever reason thinks by wearing the British poppy (which of course is for all their ex sevicemen) is to honour those Irish people (Volunteers all - not conscripts like the Brits) who died in WW1 then why can't he do it at some of those "Royal British Legion" ( God bless the mark!) thingys and not to be inflicting that disgusting symbol on our National Parliament.

Of course he might get no notice then  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 07, 2012, 06:02:38 PM
Quote from: laoislad on November 06, 2012, 07:41:42 PM
Roy Keane wearing it loud and proud on ITV tonight.
Perhaps he was paying tribute to an earlier Captain of Man U and ROI, the great Johnny Carey?

You know, the same Johnny Carey who thought it fitting that he should volunteer for the British Army in WWII, in return for all that Britain had done for him.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 07, 2012, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 07, 2012, 06:02:38 PM
Quote from: laoislad on November 06, 2012, 07:41:42 PM
Roy Keane wearing it loud and proud on ITV tonight.
Perhaps he was paying tribute to an earlier Captain of Man U and ROI, the great Johnny Carey?

You know, the same Johnny Carey who thought it fitting that he should volunteer for the British Army in WWII, in return for all that Britain had done for him.

There are a few disillusional people about I tell ye.

EG at least ye have not used an * in this post. I was dreading seeing it.

EG are ye part of a GAA club?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Worker on November 07, 2012, 06:19:25 PM
I'd very much doubt roy keane was wearing his poppy as a tribute to johnny carey!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 07, 2012, 06:21:47 PM
Quote from: The Worker on November 07, 2012, 06:19:25 PM
I'd very much doubt roy keane was wearing his poppy as a tribute to johnny carey!!

He is wearing it for the good old ITV!

As Eoghan Quigg's father said a few years ago on X-Factor.............. 'When in Rome do what the Romans say!'
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 07, 2012, 06:32:05 PM
Quote from: The Worker on November 07, 2012, 06:19:25 PM
I'd very much doubt roy keane was wearing his poppy as a tribute to johnny carey!!
As would I.

Anyhow, my point actually was that there are a whole variety of people who served in the British Armed Forces, for a whole variety of reasons.

Therefore it should be no surprise if a whole variety of people should wear the Poppy, for a whole variety of reasons of their own.

As for Keane, I don't doubt that he was required to wear it by ITV, nor that he could have refused to do so, had he wanted.

Mind you, had he done so, so conspicuous an action might have caused a bit of a stir.

And we all know how Roy likes the quiet life, don't we...  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Worker on November 07, 2012, 07:16:33 PM
Good to see you admit to talking bullsh#t once in a while EG!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 07, 2012, 07:26:09 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 07, 2012, 06:32:05 PM
Quote from: The Worker on November 07, 2012, 06:19:25 PM
I'd very much doubt roy keane was wearing his poppy as a tribute to johnny carey!!
As would I.

Anyhow, my point actually was that there are a whole variety of people who served in the British Armed Forces, for a whole variety of reasons.

Therefore it should be no surprise if a whole variety of people should wear the Poppy, for a whole variety of reasons of their own.

As for Keane, I don't doubt that he was required to wear it by ITV, nor that he could have refused to do so, had he wanted.

Mind you, had he done so, so conspicuous an action might have caused a bit of a stir.

And we all know how Roy likes the quiet life, don't we...  ;)
There is a bit of a Poppy Mafia culture in TV, didn't Donna Treanor on Newsline kick up a fuss a year or 2 ago about it. Seem to recall David Mitchell having a right go on HIGNFY too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: nrico2006 on November 08, 2012, 10:31:53 AM
I'm sure Packie Bonner would have been very welcome at Celtic Park last night with his poppy on.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: nifan on November 08, 2012, 10:38:53 AM
Tv channels insisting someone wear a poppy is ridiculous.
Only eejits are truly offended by someone choosing to wear or not wear a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ulick on November 08, 2012, 01:04:40 PM
Frank and his poppy

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VTyvAI_1Uh4/UJupRi1gnZI/AAAAAAAAETA/Y42PYBnI6XY/s1600/frank.jpeg)

http://www.judecollins.com/ (http://www.judecollins.com/)

Oh dear. It's that time of year again. Poppy time.  When those who don't wear the poppy are depicted as backward-looking anti-Brit bigots, stuffed with spleen and blind to the sacrifice of their fellow-countrymen. When politicians like Fine Gael's Frank Feighan can wear their poppy with pride in the Dail, to show how open-minded and progressive he is. "We have well and truly moved on from that dark, bloody era in the North before the evolution of the peace process" Frank says. "Thankfully, the peace dividend has delivered a new politics which has allowed us to publicly respect all traditions on this island". And that's why Frank's wearing a poppy.

And why not?  I expect at Easter, Frank will sport an Easter lily, to commemorate the courage of the men who gave their lives so that 'this island' could govern itself.  I shouldn't be surprised if Frank doesn't call for all RTÉ presenters to copy his example and wear an Easter lily on air... And pigs might what, you say? Fly?

Ah. Now I get it. "All traditions on this island" ( go on, Frank - go mad and call it 'Ireland') really means "certain traditions on this island". That'd explain why Frank and other southern politicians were so quiet when a BBC presenter in Belfast a few years ago was, um, persuaded that her non-poppy-wearing thinking was part of a false consciousness   and if she wanted to go on presenting she'd be well advised to make that false consciousness true. So she did. Saw her wearing on the other evening.

Of course, Frank may not have  heard about the white poppy campaign in England, where a lot of people want to distance themselves from the militaristic nature of Remembrance ceremonies.  He almost certainly hasn't heard Channel 4's Jon Snow who talks of 'poppy fascism', such is the pressure on presenters to toe the poppy line.

Here's the thing, Frank  If  you want to make public your views and loyalties to the rest of us (and your colleagues in the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly), that's fine. But if you do, you should be ready to speak out with equal boldness in defence of those who, for whatever reason, choose not to wear a poppy. And speak out even more boldly for those who choose to wear an Easter lily on any part of' this island.'  And, as with the poppy,  maybe lead by example.  Get your Easter lily in place, take a stroll down  Sandy Row or the main street of Aghohill, and you'll almost certainly learn something about respect for all traditions on this island.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 08, 2012, 01:39:45 PM
The SDLP man who wants other nationalists to wear a poppy

0 18 18Thursday, 8 November 2012





A well-known SDLP figure has urged fellow nationalists to try wearing a poppy this year.

“You might feel more comfortable than you imagine doing it,” said Liam Logan, the chair of the party’s North Down branch.

Mr Logan was speaking after Frank Feighan, a Fine Gael TD from Co Roscommon, announced he would wear a poppy in the Dail.

He yesterday became the first Irish parliamentarian to wear the emblem in the Dail for 16 years.

The symbol commemorates British military dead and benefits the wounded personnel and bereaved relatives.

Mr Feighan pointed out that 49,000 Irish soldiers died in the First World War alone, and that nearly a third of men of military age signed up.

Many nationalists from the north fought and died in regiments like the Connaught Rangers, based in Mr Feighan’s home town of Boyle.

“I don’t think it reduces me as an Irishman to acknowledge that so many Irish people died in both World Wars,” Mr Logan told the Belfast Telegraph.

He has been wearing a poppy, usually the smaller enamelled version. “I wore it last Sunday to Mass in Bangor where there were other people with poppies on. I wore it on Monday night to attend a talk on the Falls Road, and I normally wear it to my party’s annual conference. Nobody has ever said anything unpleasant to me about it,” he said. The Falls Road event was held in An Cultúrlann McAdam O Fiaich, an Irish language cultural centre housed in a former Presbyterian church.

The lecture was on ‘Stereotypes of the First Word War’ and it was given by Dr Ian Adamson of the Ullans (Ulster Scots language) academy, of which Mr Logan is a member.

“History is always more complicated than you think, but politicians have a tendency to extract from it only the lessons that support their own political views,” Mr Logan added.

Many nationalist soldiers who fought in the World Wars complained that they suffered discrimination in the Republic because they had been in the British Army, and in the north because they were Catholics.

In recent years there have been attempts by people like Paddy Harte, the Donegal TD, to reclaim and retell their history.

Two years ago Margaret Ritchie (right) became the first SDLP leader to publicly wear a poppy when she attended the cenotaph in Downpatrick on Remembrance Sunday as a mark of respect “and to show it is OK to do so”.

This year she said she will probably buy one in Westminster, but hasn’t decided whether to wear it as she won’t be attending a ceremony.

A party spokeswoman said: “SDLP leader Alasdair McDonnell will attend the cenotaph this Sunday to pay his respects.

“People should be free to wear the poppy or not wear the poppy without fear of rebuke,” the spokeswoman added.



Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/the-sdlp-man-who-wants-other-nationalists-to-wear-a-poppy-16235276.html?r=RSS#ixzz2BddXvVap
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 08, 2012, 05:50:46 PM
Can somebody tell me, why do you have to wear an emblem at all to remember the British dead? Evil Genius? Anybody?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 08, 2012, 07:14:34 PM
It's primarily a fundraiser for ex-forces i think, money raised goes to the Royal British Legion AFAIK.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 08, 2012, 07:25:35 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 08, 2012, 10:31:53 AM
I'm sure Packie Bonner would have been very welcome at Celtic Park last night with his poppy on.

Sure did the celtic rig not display a poppy a few years back for games??? is john reid (britains former lord lieutenent in ireland) not the chairman of the club?? Big packie would be in good company then.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 08, 2012, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 08, 2012, 07:25:35 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 08, 2012, 10:31:53 AM
I'm sure Packie Bonner would have been very welcome at Celtic Park last night with his poppy on.

Sure did the celtic rig not display a poppy a few years back for games??? is john reid (britains former lord lieutenent in ireland) not the chairman of the club?? Big packie would be in good company then.

the club donated 10k to the poppy appeal this year. seen a few staff wearing them last night. wouldnt wear it meself but each to their own. one thing though i work in the public sector, a few colleagues wear a one at work, can u imagine if someone were to wear an easter lilly, p45s all round i reckon.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 09, 2012, 09:38:59 AM
Caught a fleeting glimpse of Dara O Briain on the One Show (my kids watch it, honest!) last night, he didn't seem to be wearing one??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 09, 2012, 10:53:22 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 09, 2012, 09:38:59 AM
Caught a fleeting glimpse of Dara O Briain on the One Show (my kids watch it, honest!) last night, he didn't seem to be wearing one??

Maybe a repeat. Lol!!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 09, 2012, 01:36:39 PM
Not a fan of poppies myself. However across the water they are a neutral fund raising device for the British Legion. The only reason they are cotrovertial in the North is because of the conflict number one and secondly the insistence of unionist to shove them down nationalist throats, which a bit like Mr Feighan actually denigrates the great work that the poppy campaign funds. If we are moving on I think that as nationalists we need to get over the poppy in the same way the unionists need to get over and accept nationalist symbols. Both sides need to accept this is shared space, we are not Finchley or Fanad but some where in between.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stibhan on November 09, 2012, 01:55:28 PM
I wouldn't wear a poppy, but don't find it offensive or begrudge anyone who wishes to wear one. I might have in the past, but I really don't care anymore. Poppy fascism is a hundred times more offensive to me than someone's individual choice.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Olaf on November 09, 2012, 02:16:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 09, 2012, 01:36:39 PM
Not a fan of poppies myself. However across the water they are a neutral fund raising device for the British Legion. The only reason they are cotrovertial in the North is because of the conflict number one and secondly the insistence of unionist to shove them down nationalist throats,

How does this manifest itself in Northern Ireland? I don't see it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 09, 2012, 02:48:55 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 08, 2012, 07:14:34 PM
It's primarily a fundraiser for ex-forces i think, money raised goes to the Royal British Legion AFAIK.

If that is the case, I am changing my vote, any nationalist that wears one knowing this should be ashamed of themselves.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2012, 03:13:29 PM
Will Kenny and Gilbore be wearing the offensive symbol when they prostrate themselves to British military pomp in Belfast next Sunday?  >:( >:(
Will Robinson be attending at the GPO next Easter Monday?
Why is peace and reconciliation such a one way street ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 09, 2012, 03:40:00 PM


The poppy is worn today not just to remind people of the soldiers who died in the british army in the two world wars, but it also supports what the british army is doing today in afganistan and iraq. Money raised from the sales of these poppies go straight into the british war machine in these countries. dont forget of all the countries that this empire have colonised and uprooted, by wearing this poppy your are supporting all of the above. Yer man from roscommom, the TD there, seems to forget or simply ignore these actions, I believe it is the latter. Many people from ireland have a deep fascination of all things british, we still think that they are a step above us.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 09, 2012, 04:14:53 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 09, 2012, 03:40:00 PM


The poppy is worn today not just to remind people of the soldiers who died in the british army in the two world wars, but it also supports what the british army is doing today in afganistan and iraq. Money raised from the sales of these poppies go straight into the british war machine in these countries. dont forget of all the countries that this empire have colonised and uprooted, by wearing this poppy your are supporting all of the above. Yer man from roscommom, the TD there, seems to forget or simply ignore these actions, I believe it is the latter. Many people from ireland have a deep fascination of all things british, we still think that they are a step above us.
[/b][/b][/b][/b]

A sizable minority i'd say, the majority would have more cop on!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Olaf on November 09, 2012, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 09, 2012, 03:40:00 PM


Money raised from the sales of these poppies go straight into the british war machine in these countries. dont forget of all the countries that this empire have colonised and uprooted, by wearing this poppy your are supporting all of the above. Yer man from roscommom, the TD there, seems to forget or simply ignore these actions, I believe it is the latter. Many people from ireland have a deep fascination of all things british, we still think that they are a step above us.

It goes to the Royal British Legion and is  used for the welfare of ex-servicemen and their families/dependants.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 09, 2012, 04:27:49 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 09, 2012, 03:40:00 PM
The poppy is worn today not just to remind people of the soldiers who died in the british army in the two world wars, but it also supports what the british army is doing today in afganistan and iraq. Money raised from the sales of these poppies go straight into the british war machine in these countries. dont forget of all the countries that this empire have colonised and uprooted, by wearing this poppy your are supporting all of the above. Yer man from roscommom, the TD there, seems to forget or simply ignore these actions, I believe it is the latter. Many people from ireland have a deep fascination of all things british, we still think that they are a step above us.

What about the Poppy campaign in Canada?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 09, 2012, 04:30:17 PM
Quote from: Olaf on November 09, 2012, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 09, 2012, 03:40:00 PM


Money raised from the sales of these poppies go straight into the british war machine in these countries. dont forget of all the countries that this empire have colonised and uprooted, by wearing this poppy your are supporting all of the above. Yer man from roscommom, the TD there, seems to forget or simply ignore these actions, I believe it is the latter. Many people from ireland have a deep fascination of all things british, we still think that they are a step above us.



It goes to the Royal British Legion and is  used for the welfare of ex-servicemen and their families/dependants.

guys like lee clegg, mark wright and james fisher.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 09, 2012, 04:31:16 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 09, 2012, 04:30:17 PM
Quote from: Olaf on November 09, 2012, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 09, 2012, 03:40:00 PM


Money raised from the sales of these poppies go straight into the british war machine in these countries. dont forget of all the countries that this empire have colonised and uprooted, by wearing this poppy your are supporting all of the above. Yer man from roscommom, the TD there, seems to forget or simply ignore these actions, I believe it is the latter. Many people from ireland have a deep fascination of all things british, we still think that they are a step above us.



It goes to the Royal British Legion and is  used for the welfare of ex-servicemen and their families/dependants.

guys like lee clegg, mark wright and james fisher.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2012, 05:43:14 PM
Perhaps Feighan, Kenny and Gilbore might stop off here while they are at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mcanespie_road_side.jpg

"The day after the killing, the Irish Government appointed Garda Deputy Commissioner Eugene Crowley to investigate the incident. The results of the investigation were received by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Gerry Collins on 8 April 1988, but have never been published.A Royal Ulster Constabulary investigation also took place which concluded that the killing was accidental.

In June 2008, the Police Service of Northern Ireland Historical Enquiries Team published its findings on the case. The report called the soldier's explanation for the killing the "least likely version" of what happened. The Ministry of Defence said it had co-operated with the inquiry and understood that this did not uncover any new evidence that would warrant further investigation. In October 2008, a Police Service of Northern Ireland investigation concluded that Jonathan Holden's gun required 9 lbs of pressure to pull the trigger, and that the soldier's account of the events was highly unlikely. It described the chances of this occurring, combined with hitting McAnespie by accident as, "so remote as to be virtually disregarded".

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Shaun Woodward expressed "deep regret" at the incident in a statement made in July 2009, which was welcomed by McAnespie's family.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2012, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2012, 03:13:29 PM
Will Kenny and Gilbore be wearing the offensive symbol when they prostrate themselves to British military pomp in Belfast next Sunday?  >:( >:(
Will Robinson be attending at the GPO next Easter Monday?
Why is peace and reconciliation such a one way street ?

Why are they doing this can I ask?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2012, 09:12:48 PM
Ex Stickie/OSF/SFWP/Dem Left and once a Socialist Gilbore has accepted an invite from either Belfast City Council or the Belfast organisers of those British military remembrance of their armed forces.
Meanwhile your County man and Taoiseach is going to the Enniskillen British Miltary rememebrance.
Hopefully they might both visit Mr McAnespie's memorial, plus the Bloody Sunday site(s) in Derry not to mention the sites or memorials of many other murders committed by British armed forces in the 6 Cos.

Just to show that people murdered by those forces are equally important as the Black and Tans, SAS, Paras, UDR, B Specials, RUC and many others.
Respect of both traditions on "The Island" , Parity of esteem and all that.
Then maybe we can all "move on". 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 09, 2012, 11:04:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2012, 05:43:14 PM
Perhaps Feighan, Kenny and Gilbore might stop off here while they are at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mcanespie_road_side.jpg

"The day after the killing, the Irish Government appointed Garda Deputy Commissioner Eugene Crowley to investigate the incident. The results of the investigation were received by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Gerry Collins on 8 April 1988, but have never been published.A Royal Ulster Constabulary investigation also took place which concluded that the killing was accidental.

In June 2008, the Police Service of Northern Ireland Historical Enquiries Team published its findings on the case. The report called the soldier's explanation for the killing the "least likely version" of what happened. The Ministry of Defence said it had co-operated with the inquiry and understood that this did not uncover any new evidence that would warrant further investigation. In October 2008, a Police Service of Northern Ireland investigation concluded that Jonathan Holden's gun required 9 lbs of pressure to pull the trigger, and that the soldier's account of the events was highly unlikely. It described the chances of this occurring, combined with hitting McAnespie by accident as, "so remote as to be virtually disregarded".

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Shaun Woodward expressed "deep regret" at the incident in a statement made in July 2009, which was welcomed by McAnespie's family.
Could never understand why.
In the wake of the post mortem, the coroner concluded that from the angle at which the bullet entered the body, Holden had been firing into the ground with the intention of making young McAnespie 'dance.'
According to him, there could be no other rational explanation. The Irish Cabinet discussed his findings but decided that it would be futile to press the matter as Holden had been initially charged with manslaughter but this charge had been inexplicably dropped before he was brought to trial where he was fined for some petty misdemeanour.
The Irish government was quite satisfied that the Brits were engaged in a cover up and decided that they couldn't do anything about this so they let the matter drop.
That's what I was told by a senior government minister some years after the tragic killing and I've no  reason to doubt his word..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on November 09, 2012, 11:26:10 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 09, 2012, 04:30:17 PM
Quote from: Olaf on November 09, 2012, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 09, 2012, 03:40:00 PM




guys like lee clegg, mark wright and james fisher.
Where they badly injured that they need the support of the R.B.L.?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 09, 2012, 11:52:09 PM
Quote from: dillinger on November 09, 2012, 11:26:10 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 09, 2012, 04:30:17 PM
Quote from: Olaf on November 09, 2012, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 09, 2012, 03:40:00 PM




guys like lee clegg, mark wright and james fisher.
Where they badly injured that they need the support of the R.B.L.?

would u welcome them in a british legion club, is injury a prerequisite to membership of the legion or can any ex brit murderer join?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fitzroyalty on November 10, 2012, 12:25:58 PM
There are good reasons to wear a poppy and even better ones not to. Each to their own.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 10, 2012, 12:35:53 PM
Has anyone seen the White Poppy being worn any where? Are they sold?

From Wiki

HistoryIn 1926, a few years after the introduction of the red poppy in the UK, the idea of pacifists making their own poppies was put forward by a member of the No More War Movement (and that the black centre of the British Legion's red poppies should be imprinted with "No More War"). Their intention was to remember casualties of all wars, with the added meaning of a hope for the end of all wars; the red poppy, they felt, signified only the British military dead. However they did not pursue the idea. The first white poppies were sold by the Co-operative Women's Guild in 1933. The Peace Pledge Union (PPU) took part in their distribution from 1934, and white poppy wreaths were laid from 1937 as a pledge to peace that war must not happen again. Anti-war organisations such as the Anglican Pacifist Fellowship now support the White Poppy Movement.

Those who promote the wearing of white poppies argue that the red poppy also conveys a specific political standpoint, and point to the divisive nature of the red poppy in Northern Ireland, where it is worn mainly by the Unionist community. They choose the white poppy over the red often because they wish to disassociate themselves from the militaristic aspects of Remembrance Day, rather than the commemoration itself
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 10, 2012, 05:32:14 PM
Did frankie boyle not wear one recently
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 10, 2012, 07:21:54 PM
James McClean is getting a fair bit of stick for not wearing a poppy on his jersey today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 10, 2012, 07:28:30 PM
Apparently it's okay (according to some numbskull Sunderland fans)  for MON not to wear a poppy because he's a nationalist but McClean gets the brunt of the ire from the fascists.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2012, 08:28:03 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 10, 2012, 05:32:14 PM
Did frankie boyle not wear one recently
He did on the Jonathan Ross Show and Rod Stewart wore one on Graham Norton Show last night. Poppy fascism is out of control - how on Earth could anyone expect a nationalist from Derry to wear a poppy just because he plays in England!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Saffrongael on November 10, 2012, 08:30:30 PM
I see Sidebottom wasn't wearing one on bbc Final Score today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gerry on November 10, 2012, 08:45:22 PM
McClean refuses to wear poppy on eve of Remembrance Sunday as Sunderland suffer defeat  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

fair play to him for making a stand
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 10, 2012, 08:48:04 PM
Quote from: gerry on November 10, 2012, 08:45:22 PM
McClean refuses to wear poppy on eve of Remembrance Sunday as Sunderland suffer defeat  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

fair play to him for making a stand

Fair play is right. We need far more people like this.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: SHEEDY on November 10, 2012, 09:04:23 PM
john o'shea didnt wear one either. fair play to them. dont blame any irish player in england that did but good to see a few not just following the crowd.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 10, 2012, 09:24:20 PM
Quote from: gerry on November 10, 2012, 08:45:22 PM
McClean refuses to wear poppy on eve of Remembrance Sunday as Sunderland suffer defeat  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

fair play to him for making a stand

+ 1.
Time for Irish people everywhere to follow his great example and stop toadying.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: SHEEDY on November 10, 2012, 09:33:27 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 10, 2012, 09:04:23 PM
john o'shea didnt wear one either. fair play to them. dont blame any irish player in england that did but good to see a few not just following the crowd.
o'shea did wear his poppy shirt in the 1st half. changed his jersey at half time to a non poppy one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 10, 2012, 10:03:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2012, 09:24:20 PM
Quote from: gerry on November 10, 2012, 08:45:22 PM
McClean refuses to wear poppy on eve of Remembrance Sunday as Sunderland suffer defeat  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

fair play to him for making a stand

+ 1.
Time for Irish people everywhere to follow his great example and stop toadying.

Read that article and you can see what Jon Snow calls poppy fascism.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rodney trotter on November 10, 2012, 10:08:17 PM
The Journo got the little dig in with "London derry born" winger...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 10, 2012, 10:29:56 PM
Brian ODriscoll didnt wear one on the BBC but Keith Wood sitting beside him did !

I suppose Wood is a BBC employee.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2012, 10:31:47 PM
When is this tiresome flower count going to stop?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Worker on November 10, 2012, 10:43:51 PM
I seen a guy wearing 2 poppies earlier. Must be some sorta statement.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ulick on November 10, 2012, 11:49:24 PM
Quote from: The Worker on November 10, 2012, 10:43:51 PM
I seen a guy wearing 2 poppies earlier. Must be some sorta statement.

Twas common with the RUCers, one on the cap and one on flack jacket. The UDR women used to go for the aesthetic symmetry of one on either side of the cap badge with the blokes peeved because they couldn't get the pin into the tin hats. Best I ever saw though was a traffic warden in Lurgan (same bloke who drove the forklift through Wellworths front window), with a full house of one on either side of the cap and one on each lapel. Batman and Darth Vader near got their poppies shoved up their collective holes in the Boucher B&Q this morning for scaring the shite out of my 2 year old though. Alas at least we can count on the Greeks to keep the old traditions going strong...

(http://theimagebuilders.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/royals-with-two-poppies1.jpg?w=655)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 10, 2012, 11:52:04 PM
How many poppies could you wear before people would realize you were taking the piss. Maybe 8?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Armaghgeddon on November 11, 2012, 12:14:09 AM
Really can't believe James McLean is getting so much stick for not wearing a poppy. He has every right not to wear it, regardless of if he plays football in England or not, this crap about poppies is really irritating.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2012, 12:17:28 AM
You have the option of a bigger poppie instead of multiples. Seen a few whoppers in Armagh today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2012, 12:31:09 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2012, 09:24:20 PM
Quote from: gerry on November 10, 2012, 08:45:22 PM
McClean refuses to wear poppy on eve of Remembrance Sunday as Sunderland suffer defeat  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

fair play to him for making a stand

+ 1.
Time for Irish people everywhere to follow his great example and stop toadying.

Poppies, O another tiresome onslaught this year, their Royal Wedding, Forces Day, their Queens Jubilee, Engerland in the Euros, Liverpool Orange Marches, Team GB and the London (not GB or UK as they seem to think) Olympics, Union Jack/Flag on all their clothing-bags-duvets fashion trend, Guy Fawkes, now everybody has to wear a Poppy for two months day. A few less of these Pink Map Empire Days next year lets hope.

The Daily Fail report proves the Brits are just as obsessed about trying to make us wear us wear their symbols of Empire as we are of not wanting them shoved in our faces.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2012, 12:35:10 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2012, 12:17:28 AM
You have the option of a bigger poppie instead of multiples. Seen a few whoppers in Armagh today.

How about wearing 8 giant ones. Maybe a sombrero poppy hat too. Just to magnify the respect.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fitzroyalty on November 11, 2012, 12:40:51 AM
The poppy has descended into what is part of a wider propaganda tool for the UK government to increase support for their war machine. With the economic situation still poor and the UK spending millions on the military the oul British nationalism gets drummed out, of which the poppy is an important proponent, along with this years Olympics. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2012, 01:57:44 AM
QuoteHow about wearing 8 giant ones. Maybe a sombrero poppy hat too. Just to magnify the respect.

You could always grow some on your head.

(http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/pa-8009137.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on November 11, 2012, 02:06:04 AM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 11, 2012, 12:40:51 AM
The poppy has descended into what is part of a wider propaganda tool for the UK government to increase support for their war machine.

Of course the UK is cutting their defence budget. ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2012, 02:21:54 AM
Quote from: dillinger on November 11, 2012, 02:06:04 AM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 11, 2012, 12:40:51 AM
The poppy has descended into what is part of a wider propaganda tool for the UK government to increase support for their war machine.

Of course the UK is cutting their defence budget. ;)

Nothing a good old war with Argies won't sort out, or they could use the US airbase on Diego Garcia to the bomb the shit out of some random middle eastern country.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Syferus on November 11, 2012, 02:24:32 AM
You know progress has been made when one of the main points of contention between Britain and Ireland is a faux-flower pin.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 11, 2012, 10:27:50 AM
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 10, 2012, 09:33:27 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 10, 2012, 09:04:23 PM
john o'shea didnt wear one either. fair play to them. dont blame any irish player in england that did but good to see a few not just following the crowd.
o'shea did wear his poppy shirt in the 1st half. changed his jersey at half time to a non poppy one.

Considering O'Shea didn't work up a bead of sweat and his shirt was in pristine ironed shape at the end of the 1st half, I take his decision to change his shirt to a non-poppy one, as a conscious objection  :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2012, 11:07:59 AM
So did James McClean wear a non-poppy shirt yesterday?

It's disgusting footballers are made to wear one on their shirts. Or anyone for that matter.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thewobbler on November 11, 2012, 11:47:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2012, 09:24:20 PM
Quote from: gerry on November 10, 2012, 08:45:22 PM
McClean refuses to wear poppy on eve of Remembrance Sunday as Sunderland suffer defeat  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

fair play to him for making a stand

+ 1.
Time for Irish people everywhere to follow his great example and stop toadying.

No actually it's time for Irish people everywhere to stop making such a big deal out of nothing. The poppy symbol can only offend you if you try really hard to let it do so.

We are going to have a very interesting year in 2016 in Ireland. I've a strong suspicion that those who get most offends by the poppy will also be those forcing and demanding Irish symbolism down our throats then.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fitzroyalty on November 11, 2012, 11:49:49 AM
Quote from: dillinger on November 11, 2012, 02:06:04 AM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on November 11, 2012, 12:40:51 AM
The poppy has descended into what is part of a wider propaganda tool for the UK government to increase support for their war machine.

Of course the UK is cutting their defence budget. ;)
Did I miss something were the troops withdrawn last night? Or else there's that arms deal last week with the Saudis.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 11, 2012, 07:02:48 PM
Good lad, James McClean
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
At least Kenny and Gilbore didn't wear the offending flower when they paid their homage to British soldiers.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2012, 08:15:58 PM
I don't think ireland is the only country to be rubbed up the wrong way by England! did tevez or aguero wear one yesterday? (with the falklands war in recent memory) did any germans playing in the league at the weekend wear one?? should they not be offended to,as Germany fought against the British in WW2,or do they respect the team they are been paid to play for, in an ENGLISH country! Should Footballer supporters take offence at Germans wearing one, after all, their forefathers where responsible for putting half the british soldiers in their graves to start with. J McClean can make a decision not to wear one if he wants, but if germans footballers(and i dont know if they did wear a poppy on their jersey or not) can wear one, then it looks strange that players from other countries playing in england would not wear one when they are getting paid to represent that english club.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 11, 2012, 09:05:40 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2012, 08:15:58 PM
I don't think ireland is the only country to be rubbed up the wrong way by England! did tevez or aguero wear one yesterday? (with the falklands war in recent memory) did any germans playing in the league at the weekend wear one?? should they not be offended to,as Germany fought against the British in WW2,or do they respect the team they are been paid to play for, in an ENGLISH country! Should Footballer supporters take offence at Germans wearing one, after all, their forefathers where responsible for putting half the british soldiers in their graves to start with. J McClean can make a decision not to wear one if he wants, but if germans footballers(and i dont know if they did wear a poppy on their jersey or not) can wear one, then it looks strange that players from other countries playing in england would not wear one when they are getting paid to represent that english club.

James McClean.. take a bow son take a bow. Tevez and Aguero, the ultimate examples of integrity. great example there. i feel really guilty now myself that i dint wear the poppy. wouldn't even wipe the pipe With one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2012, 09:11:56 PM
Feighan and a gang of clowns were going round Boyle today wearing the offending flowers in memory of the "Connaught Rangers" Regiment.
Could they not simply remember the facts without having to give money to the "Royal British Legion".
Anyway the official State remembrance for  ALL Irish people who died in foreign wars/armies is held in July so again why the need to propogate a British ceremony in the 26 Cos?.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2012, 09:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2012, 09:11:56 PM
Feighan and a gang of clowns were going round Boyle today wearing the offending flowers in memory of the "Connaught Rangers" Regiment.
Could they not simply remember the facts without having to give money to the "Royal British Legion".
Anyway the official State remembrance for  ALL Irish people who died in foreign wars/armies is held in July so again why the need to propogate a British ceremony in the 26 Cos?.

Typical FG w**ker, country goin down the tube and he is going around looking for attention with his gang of inbreds in Boyle.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2012, 09:56:31 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 11, 2012, 07:02:48 PM
Good lad, James McClean

Plus 1.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: comethekingdom on November 11, 2012, 10:34:36 PM
Seen a nun at mass this morning wearing one !!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ballinaman on November 11, 2012, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2012, 08:15:58 PM
I don't think ireland is the only country to be rubbed up the wrong way by England! did tevez or aguero wear one yesterday? (with the falklands war in recent memory) did any germans playing in the league at the weekend wear one?? should they not be offended to,as Germany fought against the British in WW2,or do they respect the team they are been paid to play for, in an ENGLISH country! Should Footballer supporters take offence at Germans wearing one, after all, their forefathers where responsible for putting half the british soldiers in their graves to start with. J McClean can make a decision not to wear one if he wants, but if germans footballers(and i dont know if they did wear a poppy on their jersey or not) can wear one, then it looks strange that players from other countries playing in england would not wear one when they are getting paid to represent that english club.
Argies x 3 for Man City had them on today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2012, 10:41:29 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on November 11, 2012, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2012, 08:15:58 PM
I don't think ireland is the only country to be rubbed up the wrong way by England! did tevez or aguero wear one yesterday? (with the falklands war in recent memory) did any germans playing in the league at the weekend wear one?? should they not be offended to,as Germany fought against the British in WW2,or do they respect the team they are been paid to play for, in an ENGLISH country! Should Footballer supporters take offence at Germans wearing one, after all, their forefathers where responsible for putting half the british soldiers in their graves to start with. J McClean can make a decision not to wear one if he wants, but if germans footballers(and i dont know if they did wear a poppy on their jersey or not) can wear one, then it looks strange that players from other countries playing in england would not wear one when they are getting paid to represent that english club.
Argies x 3 for Man City had them on today.

Typical- thats the kind of attitude that lost them the Falklands War ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 11, 2012, 11:11:12 PM
According to today's Sunday Times, speaking about a shift in Irish attitudes towards the poppy -

In 2001, the Royal British Legion raised €47,500 from its poppy appeal.

Last year the Irish poppy appeal raised €245,937.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Premier Emperor on November 11, 2012, 11:27:40 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2012, 11:11:12 PM
According to today's Sunday Times, speaking about a shift in Irish attitudes towards the poppy -

In 2001, the Royal British Legion raised €47,500 from its poppy appeal.

Last year the Irish poppy appeal raised €245,937.
No wonder the country is bankrupt!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Aaron Boone on November 11, 2012, 11:36:32 PM
Quote from: comethekingdom on November 11, 2012, 10:34:36 PM
Seen a nun at mass this morning wearing one !!
I saw a Nigerian lad wearing one in Parnell Sq today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2012, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: Premier Emperor on November 11, 2012, 11:27:40 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2012, 11:11:12 PM
According to today's Sunday Times, speaking about a shift in Irish attitudes towards the poppy -

In 2001, the Royal British Legion raised €47,500 from its poppy appeal.

Last year the Irish poppy appeal raised €245,937.
No wonder the country is bankrupt!
Morally and/or financially?!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2012, 11:40:10 PM
Bit of a politicaly loaded sign off by Colin Murray there on Match of the Day 2  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2012, 11:42:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2012, 10:41:29 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on November 11, 2012, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2012, 08:15:58 PM
I don't think ireland is the only country to be rubbed up the wrong way by England! did tevez or aguero wear one yesterday? (with the falklands war in recent memory) did any germans playing in the league at the weekend wear one?? should they not be offended to,as Germany fought against the British in WW2,or do they respect the team they are been paid to play for, in an ENGLISH country! Should Footballer supporters take offence at Germans wearing one, after all, their forefathers where responsible for putting half the british soldiers in their graves to start with. J McClean can make a decision not to wear one if he wants, but if germans footballers(and i dont know if they did wear a poppy on their jersey or not) can wear one, then it looks strange that players from other countries playing in england would not wear one when they are getting paid to represent that english club.
Argies x 3 for Man City had them on today.

Typical- thats the kind of attitude that lost them the Falklands War ;)

At least the Argies won the first 2 of the 3 wars they had with the Brits and they had to hand of god!!! on their side too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 12, 2012, 12:07:18 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2012, 08:15:58 PM
I don't think ireland is the only country to be rubbed up the wrong way by England! did tevez or aguero wear one yesterday? (with the falklands war in recent memory) did any germans playing in the league at the weekend wear one?? should they not be offended to,as Germany fought against the British in WW2,or do they respect the team they are been paid to play for, in an ENGLISH country! Should Footballer supporters take offence at Germans wearing one, after all, their forefathers where responsible for putting half the british soldiers in their graves to start with. J McClean can make a decision not to wear one if he wants, but if germans footballers(and i dont know if they did wear a poppy on their jersey or not) can wear one, then it looks strange that players from other countries playing in england would not wear one when they are getting paid to represent that english club.

Maybe because the land that we live in is still occupied by this country.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tyrone exile on November 12, 2012, 12:45:30 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 12, 2012, 12:07:18 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2012, 08:15:58 PM
I don't think ireland is the only country to be rubbed up the wrong way by England! did tevez or aguero wear one yesterday? (with the falklands war in recent memory) did any germans playing in the league at the weekend wear one?? should they not be offended to,as Germany fought against the British in WW2,or do they respect the team they are been paid to play for, in an ENGLISH country! Should Footballer supporters take offence at Germans wearing one, after all, their forefathers where responsible for putting half the british soldiers in their graves to start with. J McClean can make a decision not to wear one if he wants, but if germans footballers(and i dont know if they did wear a poppy on their jersey or not) can wear one, then it looks strange that players from other countries playing in england would not wear one when they are getting paid to represent that english club.

Maybe because the land that we live in is still occupied by this country.

Or that 6 people from the estate in which he grew up in were murdered by so called "heroes" on Bloody Sunday, Can you imagine trying to go home to the creggan and justify wearing a poppy. I respect peoples opinions for wearing a poppy, however it doesn't seem like a two way street.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rav67 on November 12, 2012, 01:07:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2012, 11:40:10 PM
Bit of a politicaly loaded sign off by Colin Murray there on Match of the Day 2  ::)

Quite, what an absolute bell-end.  I thought MOTD2 is supposed to be a light-hearted show, really no call for that.  Snide thinly veiled comments like Murray's will legitimise and exacerbate the abuse that McClean is already getting.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bridgegael on November 12, 2012, 01:32:18 AM
What did he say now?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on November 12, 2012, 07:42:53 AM

Maybe because the land that we live in is still occupied by this country.
[/quote]

Oh that's so last century!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 12, 2012, 09:01:01 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2012, 11:40:10 PM
Bit of a politicaly loaded sign off by Colin Murray there on Match of the Day 2  ::)

What did he say?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 12, 2012, 11:04:15 AM
More WTF really but does anyone else find this frightening?  I assume the Easter Lily will be sacrosanct come 2016.

Canterbury man arrested over burning poppy image. A man has been arrested after an image of a burning poppy and obscenities were posted on a social networking site.

The 19-year-old, from Canterbury, was detained on Sunday night on suspicion of making malicious telecommunications.

Kent Police said he was arrested at about 20:45 GMT and would be interviewed by officers on Monday.

On Sunday, the UK observed a two-minute silence to remember members of the British and Commonwealth's armed forces who have died during conflicts.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 12, 2012, 11:06:43 AM
James McClean tweeted "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter"MLK. Good man James.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 12, 2012, 11:07:39 AM
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/premier-league-mcclean-opts-poppy-tribute-150615555.html

Some amount of rabid little Englanders on the comments section.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 12, 2012, 11:09:09 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 12, 2012, 11:04:15 AM
More WTF really but does anyone else find this frightening?  I assume the Easter Lily will be sacrosanct come 2016.

Canterbury man arrested over burning poppy image. A man has been arrested after an image of a burning poppy and obscenities were posted on a social networking site.

The 19-year-old, from Canterbury, was detained on Sunday night on suspicion of making malicious telecommunications.

Kent Police said he was arrested at about 20:45 GMT and would be interviewed by officers on Monday.

On Sunday, the UK observed a two-minute silence to remember members of the British and Commonwealth's armed forces who have died during conflicts.


Here's a similar case (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2231431/Has-respect-Disgraceful-moment-man-dressed-devil-gatecrashed-Remembrance-Day-service-skateboard.html?ICO=most_read_module). What law prohibits burning poppies or choosing the clothes you wear in public?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: blewuporstuffed on November 12, 2012, 11:32:19 AM
Fair play to James mcclean for standing up for what he believes.
asking someone from the creggan to wear a symbol supporting the british army is like asking some one from liverpool to wear a symbol supporting west midlands police.
I couldnt see the same outcry if that was refused
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Armaghgeddon on November 12, 2012, 11:51:39 AM
Wish the Brits would get over themselves, poppy is a symbol of freedom. Shame it never existed when British soldiers caused atrocities all over the world.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 12, 2012, 01:06:59 PM
Fair dues to james on this.

What would of happened with he refused to stand for the silence or indeed walk out while members of the army formed a guard of honour for the players?

Maybe he was going to, but maybe the club said this was going to far.

Did ye read the comments on the link there?? Some of the english ones there dont have a clue at all
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: nifan on November 12, 2012, 01:18:49 PM
McClean has every right to choose not to wear a poppy - whats the point in such a symbol if people are forced to wear it, rather than choosing to.

Some of the reaction to this is ridiculous - but then again we see this sort of thing all the time - the reactions of some people to someone wearing a poppy can be very ott too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2012, 01:27:22 PM
Quote from: nifan on November 12, 2012, 01:18:49 PM
McClean has every right to choose not to wear a poppy - whats the point in such a symbol if people are forced to wear it, rather than choosing to.

Some of the reaction to this is ridiculous - but then again we see this sort of thing all the time - the reactions of some people to someone wearing a poppy can be very ott too.
You understand the context behind his decision whereas large swathes on English either don't know it or choose to ignore it. OWCers moaning about it on Twitter are obviously in the latter camp at best or blinded by bigotry at worst.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: boojangles on November 12, 2012, 01:32:11 PM
Well Done James Mc Clean.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: nrico2006 on November 12, 2012, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 12, 2012, 11:04:15 AM
More WTF really but does anyone else find this frightening?  I assume the Easter Lily will be sacrosanct come 2016.

Canterbury man arrested over burning poppy image. A man has been arrested after an image of a burning poppy and obscenities were posted on a social networking site.

The 19-year-old, from Canterbury, was detained on Sunday night on suspicion of making malicious telecommunications.

Kent Police said he was arrested at about 20:45 GMT and would be interviewed by officers on Monday.

On Sunday, the UK observed a two-minute silence to remember members of the British and Commonwealth's armed forces who have died during conflicts.

Were the Muslim protesters who burned poppies at the rememberance ceremony a few years back arrested?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:05:43 PM
Personally I couldn't give a stuff whether McClean wears a Poppy or not; further I don't think it in the spirit of the thing for people to feel compelled to do so either, so in that regard, he must be entitled to demur.

However, two things occur to me. First, it is a bit rich of some people to complain that he should be allowed not to wear the Poppy if he doesn't wish to, then go on to ask us to imagine the reaction from people in Derry if he did wear one.
That is, he must be allowed not to wear one, but the reaction of (some of) the people of Derry should dictate that he mustn't be allowed to wear one.
Especially since, as this article on the War Memorial in Derry points out:
"People must realise that the Diamond War Memorial belongs to all the people of the city and that we have a shared history. For example, young men from both the Catholic/Nationalist 16th Irish Division and the Protestant/Unionist 36th Ulster Division fought and died side by side as one unit in the battle for Messines Ridge in Belgium on the 7th June, 1917."
To date, project researcher, Trevor Temple, has discovered that almost 48% of the 756 names on the memorial belong to members of the Nationalist/Catholic community who died in World War One.

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/derry-war-memorial-open-to-public-1-2116901
Two way street, eh?

Second, I don't think he was being asked to make some sort of personal statement by wearing the shirt; rather it was to join with his teammates in the commemoration by Sunderland AFC. As such, players of every Nationality joined in, including his fellow Mackem, John O'Shea.

Indeed, I was at a League game at the weekend where, as well as the customary minute silence and poppies on shirts etc, there was a whole raft of events connected to the local Regiment (Cadet parade, free tickets for Service personnel, bucket collection for Benevolent Fund etc). Players from all over the globe were playing, including an Argentinian. None felt the need to make any kind of personal statement.

P.S. Some further 'food for thought' may be found here:
http://www.diamondwarmemorial.com/
http://www.inishowennews.com/011DunreeWall299.htm
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on November 12, 2012, 06:18:32 PM
Evil Genius usual I dont care but i'll construct a wee a story telling u fenians yis are wrong anyway
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
A few guys sang Aiden McAnnesppi during the minutes silence at solitude on sat. Utv reports it as singing sectarian songs, c***ts should do a bit of research before they bandy the word sectarian about.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 12, 2012, 06:36:26 PM
"People must realise that the Diamond War Memorial belongs to all the people of the city and that we have a shared history. For example, young men from both the Catholic/Nationalist 16th Irish Division and the Protestant/Unionist 36th Ulster Division fought and died side by side as one unit in the battle for Messines Ridge in Belgium on the 7th June, 1917."
To date, project researcher, Trevor Temple, has discovered that almost 48% of the 756 names on the memorial belong to members of the Nationalist/Catholic community who died in World War One.

All very moving ... isn't a pity that the minority unionist elite who ruled for years through gerrymandering and discriminated against the surviving relatives of that 48% didn't demonstrate the same magnanimity that you expect of nationalists in Derry
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:46:52 PM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 12, 2012, 06:18:32 PM
Evil Genius usual I dont care but i'll construct a wee a story telling u fenians yis are wrong anyway
That's it, is it?

I mean, when a poster makes a case for something with which you disagree, instead of constructing your own rebuttal, you just come up with that load of tripe?

Is it that you don't realise just how pathetic that is, or that you simply don't care?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2012, 06:53:52 PM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 12, 2012, 06:18:32 PM
Evil Genius usual I dont care but i'll construct a wee a story telling u fenians yis are wrong anyway

Class my thoughts exactly RealSpiritof89. Also just because Derry nationalists died in WW1/WW2 doesnt mean we should forget about  the dire history of the british army in that city since and start wearing poppies, i have relatives from Derry who fought in WW2 but I would never ever feel comfortable wearing a poppy. And thats not down to fear of what someone in Derry would say, I just cant relate  to the poppy, it will forever be associated with an army who gave me nothing but hassle and abuse in my youth.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
A few guys sang Aiden McAnnesppi during the minutes silence at solitude on sat. Utv reports it as singing sectarian songs, c***ts should do a bit of research before they bandy the word sectarian about.
Do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence, then?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:00:29 PM
The war memorial belongs to all, Catholics and Protestants alike blah blah blah. That's one of the arguments I've seen bandied about the most this weekend - Catholics and Irish nationalists died fighting in France, therefore people of a particular persuasion should "show respect". All well and good. Still don't see how any of that should be used as evidence a young Catholic, nationalist man from Derry should ever be criticised for choosing to not wear a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:03:05 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 12, 2012, 06:36:26 PM
"People must realise that the Diamond War Memorial belongs to all the people of the city and that we have a shared history. For example, young men from both the Catholic/Nationalist 16th Irish Division and the Protestant/Unionist 36th Ulster Division fought and died side by side as one unit in the battle for Messines Ridge in Belgium on the 7th June, 1917."
To date, project researcher, Trevor Temple, has discovered that almost 48% of the 756 names on the memorial belong to members of the Nationalist/Catholic community who died in World War One.

All very moving ... isn't a pity that the minority unionist elite who ruled for years through gerrymandering and discriminated against the surviving relatives of that 48% didn't demonstrate the same magnanimity that you expect of nationalists in Derry
'Whataboutery' at its finest - another proud Derry tradition.

Anyhow, my point was that this issue is not so Black and White as you make it out to be.

Which is precisely why I opened my post with: "Personally I couldn't give a stuff whether McClean wears a Poppy or not; further I don't think it in the spirit of the thing for people to feel compelled to do so either, so in that regard, he must be entitled to demur."

But hey, let's not permit this debate to rise above the usual "Ussuns" and "Themmuns" level, eh?  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
A few guys sang Aiden McAnnesppi during the minutes silence at solitude on sat. Utv reports it as singing sectarian songs, c***ts should do a bit of research before they bandy the word sectarian about.
Do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence, then?

Stupid decision to even attempt it at that match-come off it why do we constantly create situations which would be difficult. How would  a minutes silence for 1916 rising go down at irish league games?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:07:07 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
A few guys sang Aiden McAnnesppi during the minutes silence at solitude on sat. Utv reports it as singing sectarian songs, c***ts should do a bit of research before they bandy the word sectarian about.
Do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence, then?

I would suggest they were voicing their displeasure at being asked to observe a minute's silence in the first place given the side of the fence the club draws most of its supporters from. Pretty? No. Understandable? Yes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 07:14:24 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
A few guys sang Aiden McAnnesppi during the minutes silence at solitude on sat. Utv reports it as singing sectarian songs, c***ts should do a bit of research before they bandy the word sectarian about.
Do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence, then?
[/quote

My point was more about the labelling of that particular song as sectarian. Personally I would not observe the silence but would wait outside till it was over.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:15:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:00:29 PM
The war memorial belongs to all, Catholics and Protestants alike blah blah blah. That's one of the arguments I've seen bandied about the most this weekend - Catholics and Irish nationalists died fighting in France, therefore people of a particular persuasion should "show respect". All well and good. Still don't see how any of that should be used as evidence a young Catholic, nationalist man from Derry should ever be criticised for choosing to not wear a poppy.
Of course there are very understandable reasons why "a young Catholic nationalist man from Derry" [sic] should not wish to wear a Poppy (though I fail to see why age, religion or gender should come into it).

But there are also reasons why a Derry Nationalist might not automatically be averse to the idea (whether he/she actually wears one or not). And one of these is that, contrary to popular understanding (myth even),  the tradition of Derry people serving in the British Armed Forces has never been confined solely to the Unionist tradition.

And since Derry's War Dead came from all parts and traditions of the city, all of its people should be equally permitted to mark, or not mark, Remembrance Sunday entirely as they wish.

Or do you not agree?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2012, 07:20:25 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:05:43 PM
Personally I couldn't give a stuff whether McClean wears a Poppy or not; further I don't think it in the spirit of the thing for people to feel compelled to do so either, so in that regard, he must be entitled to demur.

However, two things occur to me. First, it is a bit rich of some people to complain that he should be allowed not to wear the Poppy if he doesn't wish to, then go on to ask us to imagine the reaction from people in Derry if he did wear one.
That is, he must be allowed not to wear one, but the reaction of (some of) the people of Derry should dictate that he mustn't be allowed to wear one.
Especially since, as this article on the War Memorial in Derry points out:
"People must realise that the Diamond War Memorial belongs to all the people of the city and that we have a shared history. For example, young men from both the Catholic/Nationalist 16th Irish Division and the Protestant/Unionist 36th Ulster Division fought and died side by side as one unit in the battle for Messines Ridge in Belgium on the 7th June, 1917."
To date, project researcher, Trevor Temple, has discovered that almost 48% of the 756 names on the memorial belong to members of the Nationalist/Catholic community who died in World War One.

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/derry-war-memorial-open-to-public-1-2116901
Two way street, eh?

Second, I don't think he was being asked to make some sort of personal statement by wearing the shirt; rather it was to join with his teammates in the commemoration by Sunderland AFC. As such, players of every Nationality joined in, including his fellow Mackem, John O'Shea.

Indeed, I was at a League game at the weekend where, as well as the customary minute silence and poppies on shirts etc, there was a whole raft of events connected to the local Regiment (Cadet parade, free tickets for Service personnel, bucket collection for Benevolent Fund etc). Players from all over the globe were playing, including an Argentinian. None felt the need to make any kind of personal statement.

P.S. Some further 'food for thought' may be found here:
http://www.diamondwarmemorial.com/
http://www.inishowennews.com/011DunreeWall299.htm

I suppose we will see yourself and the rest of the Unionist community commemorate the 1798 United Irishmen and their fight for liberty and equality against a maligne oppressive and expanding viral empire. Nah I did'nt think so.

Many of the Irish, British and other people who now wear the poppy have slowly donned the cult flower after years of herd bullying.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:22:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
A few guys sang Aiden McAnnesppi during the minutes silence at solitude on sat. Utv reports it as singing sectarian songs, c***ts should do a bit of research before they bandy the word sectarian about.
Do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence, then?

Stupid decision to even attempt it at that match-come off it why do we constantly create situations which would be difficult. How would  a minutes silence for 1916 rising go down at irish league games?
Good question (1916 etc).

But the fact is, the silence was called for, therefore the proper (and classy) thing to do would have been to respect it (imo).

Just as, for instance, when I used to go to Lansdowne Road for Ireland rugby matches, I used to stand and respect the Soldiers Song, even though that was this particular Irishman's National Anthem.

P.S. Seeing as you've intervened in my reply to Charlie Tully, do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence for a cause which doesn't appeal to you?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:15:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:00:29 PM
The war memorial belongs to all, Catholics and Protestants alike blah blah blah. That's one of the arguments I've seen bandied about the most this weekend - Catholics and Irish nationalists died fighting in France, therefore people of a particular persuasion should "show respect". All well and good. Still don't see how any of that should be used as evidence a young Catholic, nationalist man from Derry should ever be criticised for choosing to not wear a poppy.
Of course there are very understandable reasons why "a young Catholic nationalist man from Derry" [sic] should not wish to wear a Poppy (though I fail to see why age, religion or gender should come into it).

But there are also reasons why a Derry Nationalist might not automatically be averse to the idea (whether he/she actually wears one or not). And one of these is that, contrary to popular understanding (myth even),  the tradition of Derry people serving in the British Armed Forces has never been confined solely to the Unionist tradition.

And since Derry's War Dead came from all parts and traditions of the city, all of its people should be equally permitted to mark, or not mark, Remembrance Sunday entirely as they wish.

Or do you not agree?

Of course. But the poppy isnt the way to do it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2012, 07:27:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:22:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
A few guys sang Aiden McAnnesppi during the minutes silence at solitude on sat. Utv reports it as singing sectarian songs, c***ts should do a bit of research before they bandy the word sectarian about.
Do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence, then?

Stupid decision to even attempt it at that match-come off it why do we constantly create situations which would be difficult. How would  a minutes silence for 1916 rising go down at irish league games?
Good question (1916 etc).

But the fact is, the silence was called for, therefore the proper (and classy) thing to do would have been to respect it (imo).

Just as, for instance, when I used to go to Lansdowne Road for Ireland rugby matches, I used to stand and respect the Soldiers Song, even though that was this particular Irishman's National Anthem.

P.S. Seeing as you've intervened in my reply to Charlie Tully, do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence for a cause which doesn't appeal to you?

Probably not the right thing to do, but I do understand the point that was being made. By the way feel free to boo Amhrán na bhFiann at Landsdown if you have the urge, -would be silly to do so though as unlike soccer matches the fans are all mixed in and you might get a whack in the ear ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2012, 07:27:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:22:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
A few guys sang Aiden McAnnesppi during the minutes silence at solitude on sat. Utv reports it as singing sectarian songs, c***ts should do a bit of research before they bandy the word sectarian about.
Do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence, then?

Stupid decision to even attempt it at that match-come off it why do we constantly create situations which would be difficult. How would  a minutes silence for 1916 rising go down at irish league games?
Good question (1916 etc).

But the fact is, the silence was called for, therefore the proper (and classy) thing to do would have been to respect it (imo).

Just as, for instance, when I used to go to Lansdowne Road for Ireland rugby matches, I used to stand and respect the Soldiers Song, even though that was this particular Irishman's National Anthem.

P.S. Seeing as you've intervened in my reply to Charlie Tully, do you think it acceptable to sing non-sectarian songs during a minutes silence for a cause which doesn't appeal to you?

Probably not the right thing to do, but I do understand the point that was being made. By the way feel free to boo Amhrán na bhFiann at Landsdown if you have the urge, -would be silly to do so though as unlike soccer matches the fans are all mixed in and you might get a whack in the ear ;)
Why would he do that if he has just stated that he always respected it at rugby internationals?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:50:21 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:15:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:00:29 PM
The war memorial belongs to all, Catholics and Protestants alike blah blah blah. That's one of the arguments I've seen bandied about the most this weekend - Catholics and Irish nationalists died fighting in France, therefore people of a particular persuasion should "show respect". All well and good. Still don't see how any of that should be used as evidence a young Catholic, nationalist man from Derry should ever be criticised for choosing to not wear a poppy.
Of course there are very understandable reasons why "a young Catholic nationalist man from Derry" [sic] should not wish to wear a Poppy (though I fail to see why age, religion or gender should come into it).

But there are also reasons why a Derry Nationalist might not automatically be averse to the idea (whether he/she actually wears one or not). And one of these is that, contrary to popular understanding (myth even),  the tradition of Derry people serving in the British Armed Forces has never been confined solely to the Unionist tradition.

And since Derry's War Dead came from all parts and traditions of the city, all of its people should be equally permitted to mark, or not mark, Remembrance Sunday entirely as they wish.

Or do you not agree?

Age and gender of course don't matter. Please don't pretend to be naive and think religion isn't a factor, much as we may want it not to be.

Of course I agree - people can choose to mark or not mark it as they please. However, there's a level of insinuation about the place this weekend that because some Irish nationalists and Irish Catholics fought and died in the service of the British army that people from those sections of society should have no issue with the poppy, or commemorations of British war dead.

A point that is missed frequently in this concerns the raised by the Poppy appeal. The funds go to support current and ex-servicemen/service women and their families, for example, oh I don't know, let's just say the Paras. It's only natural that someone from Derry of all places would not want to support such a cause.

Was brought up on the radio this morning too: http://audioboo.fm/boos/1054166-james-mcclean-under-fire-for-not-wearing-a-poppy-during-a-football-match-freedom-of-choice-or-insulting-the-war-dead#t=2m40s
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:51:24 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2012, 07:20:25 PMI suppose we will see yourself and the rest of the Unionist community commemorate the 1798 United Irishmen and their fight for liberty and equality against a maligne oppressive and expanding viral empire. Nah I did'nt think so.
I have no objection to people commemorating 1798, even if I have no particular desire to join them myself.

Just as I don't object to people commemorating eg 1690, despite having no desire to join them, either.

I do, however, buy a Poppy each year, for reasons which are entirely my own business.

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2012, 07:20:25 PMMany of the Irish, British and other people who now wear the poppy have slowly donned the cult flower after years of herd bullying.
I take it you have somehow managed to resist this "herd bullying" [sic] so far, eh?

The Spirit of Irish Martyrdom will not die whilst you're still alive, eh MGHU?  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
Why were no players wearing these poppy things in the 70's, 80's or 90's?
Don't recall too many people wearing them in England - mostly only done in the triumphalist 'wee sicks' counties!!
It's been some sensationalist pressurizing ( bullying) to press gang people int wearing these daft looking thing!!

I recall a few years ago in lansdowne road at a rugby international v the jockos , a couple of al-star rugby fans started booing softly during Amhrain Na bhfiann - but stopped after a few glares in their direction from surrounding fans !
They were not wearing any Irish colours ( as was their right and choice) but sporting ulster gear and 'supporting' Ireland.
No one was press ganging them into 'the wearing of the green'.

This poppy lark is revisionist poppycock !!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 12, 2012, 09:30:49 PM
Don't remember many members of the occupation forces here sent back to Blighty in a box getting the full Wootten Bassett treatment, either ... it's all part of a push by the British establishment to get the population behind the military so less of them will question their illegal presence in Iraq and their totally futile presence in Afghanistan
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 12, 2012, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 12, 2012, 09:30:49 PM
Don't remember many members of the occupation forces here sent back to Blighty in a box getting the full Wootten Bassett treatment, either ... it's all part of a push by the British establishment to get the population behind the military so less of them will question their illegal presence in Iraq and their totally futile presence in Afghanistan

+1
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
Why were no players wearing these poppy things in the 70's, 80's or 90's?
Don't recall too many people wearing them in England - mostly only done in the triumphalist 'wee sicks' counties!!
It's been some sensationalist pressurizing ( bullying) to press gang people int wearing these daft looking thing!!

I recall a few years ago in lansdowne road at a rugby international v the jockos , a couple of al-star rugby fans started booing softly during Amhrain Na bhfiann - but stopped after a few glares in their direction from surrounding fans !
They were not wearing any Irish colours ( as was their right and choice) but sporting ulster gear and 'supporting' Ireland.
No one was press ganging them into 'the wearing of the green'.

This poppy lark is revisionist poppycock !!
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 12, 2012, 09:43:32 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 12, 2012, 09:30:49 PM
Don't remember many members of the occupation forces here sent back to Blighty in a box getting the full Wootten Bassett treatment, either ... it's all part of a push by the British establishment to get the population behind the military so less of them will question their illegal presence in Iraq and their totally futile presence in Afghanistan

so true.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2012, 10:41:31 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
Why were no players wearing these poppy things in the 70's, 80's or 90's?
Don't recall too many people wearing them in England - mostly only done in the triumphalist 'wee sicks' counties!!
It's been some sensationalist pressurizing ( bullying) to press gang people int wearing these daft looking thing!!

I recall a few years ago in lansdowne road at a rugby international v the jockos , a couple of al-star rugby fans started booing softly during Amhrain Na bhfiann - but stopped after a few glares in their direction from surrounding fans !
They were not wearing any Irish colours ( as was their right and choice) but sporting ulster gear and 'supporting' Ireland.
No one was press ganging them into 'the wearing of the green'.

This poppy lark is revisionist poppycock !!
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.
It is my experience that that while a tiny amount of people wore poppies in England (plus Scotland and wales) during the 70's, 80's & 90's - they were far more evident in those decades in the north of Ireland .
Tell me why this was then if it wasnt triumphalism or a ' badge ' to demonstrate which side of the fence these people were from!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Leo on November 12, 2012, 10:56:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:15:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:00:29 PM
The war memorial belongs to all, Catholics and Protestants alike blah blah blah. That's one of the arguments I've seen bandied about the most this weekend - Catholics and Irish nationalists died fighting in France, therefore people of a particular persuasion should "show respect". All well and good. Still don't see how any of that should be used as evidence a young Catholic, nationalist man from Derry should ever be criticised for choosing to not wear a poppy.
Of course there are very understandable reasons why "a young Catholic nationalist man from Derry" [sic] should not wish to wear a Poppy (though I fail to see why age, religion or gender should come into it).

But there are also reasons why a Derry Nationalist might not automatically be averse to the idea (whether he/she actually wears one or not). And one of these is that, contrary to popular understanding (myth even),  the tradition of Derry people serving in the British Armed Forces has never been confined solely to the Unionist tradition.

And since Derry's War Dead came from all parts and traditions of the city, all of its people should be equally permitted to mark, or not mark, Remembrance Sunday entirely as they wish.

Or do you not agree?

You know what, if a young nationalist from Derry choses to earn his (overpaid) living at the expense of British soccer supporters he might consider having some respect for how they feel. The nationalist bigotry and ignorance about remembrance day and how it symbolises OUR freedom is staggering.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2012, 11:13:17 PM
Quote from: Leo on November 12, 2012, 10:56:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:15:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:00:29 PM
The war memorial belongs to all, Catholics and Protestants alike blah blah blah. That's one of the arguments I've seen bandied about the most this weekend - Catholics and Irish nationalists died fighting in France, therefore people of a particular persuasion should "show respect". All well and good. Still don't see how any of that should be used as evidence a young Catholic, nationalist man from Derry should ever be criticised for choosing to not wear a poppy.
Of course there are very understandable reasons why "a young Catholic nationalist man from Derry" [sic] should not wish to wear a Poppy (though I fail to see why age, religion or gender should come into it).

But there are also reasons why a Derry Nationalist might not automatically be averse to the idea (whether he/she actually wears one or not). And one of these is that, contrary to popular understanding (myth even),  the tradition of Derry people serving in the British Armed Forces has never been confined solely to the Unionist tradition.

And since Derry's War Dead came from all parts and traditions of the city, all of its people should be equally permitted to mark, or not mark, Remembrance Sunday entirely as they wish.

Or do you not agree?

You know what, if a young nationalist from Derry choses to earn his (overpaid) living at the expense of British soccer supporters he might consider having some respect for how they feel. The nationalist bigotry and ignorance about remembrance day and how it symbolises OUR freedom is staggering.

You have NO RIGHT TO FORCE YOUR SYMBOLS down our necks. The Poppy no matter how the sheeple of the island of Britain and its colonial offspring like to paint it, the Poppy is British Nationalism and the Poppy Appeal is simply Marshial Societal conditioning. I don't seem to see the Republic of Ireland's biggest foregin resident ethnic group the British being FORCED to wear Easter Lillys, to fly the Irish tricolour above their places of residence and work, to Sycophantic lick the arsehole of our Head of State.


The Rotten Empire is dead.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2012, 12:42:52 AM
God be with the olden times when if a country went to war the King led them into battle  I think there would be a lot less wars if the US President etc had to do the same nowadays
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 13, 2012, 08:06:11 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2012, 10:41:31 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
Why were no players wearing these poppy things in the 70's, 80's or 90's?
Don't recall too many people wearing them in England - mostly only done in the triumphalist 'wee sicks' counties!!
It's been some sensationalist pressurizing ( bullying) to press gang people int wearing these daft looking thing!!

I recall a few years ago in lansdowne road at a rugby international v the jockos , a couple of al-star rugby fans started booing softly during Amhrain Na bhfiann - but stopped after a few glares in their direction from surrounding fans !
They were not wearing any Irish colours ( as was their right and choice) but sporting ulster gear and 'supporting' Ireland.
No one was press ganging them into 'the wearing of the green'.

This poppy lark is revisionist poppycock !!
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.
It is my experience that that while a tiny amount of people wore poppies in England (plus Scotland and wales) during the 70's, 80's & 90's - they were far more evident in those decades in the north of Ireland .
Tell me why this was then if it wasnt triumphalism or a ' badge ' to demonstrate which side of the fence these people were from!
Why would someone from the 'north of Ireland' wear something to demonstrate which side of the fence they were from when they were living in a divided society where 'their side' would generally have been pretty obvious?
As someone who used to attend services at school, church etc, I can assure you that remembrance services were solemn occasions where people congregated to remember the war dead. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2012, 08:16:26 AM
That does not explain why poppies were worn by the truckload in the north of Ireland when in England etc these were worn by tiny minority??

Great that your services were sincere etc - but the need/requirement to have to sport a poppy is because...?
I'm sure the dead can be remembered without some childish badge!

Btw I don't wear shamrocks on st Patrick's day myself - don't see the need for it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Cold tea on November 13, 2012, 08:28:17 AM
Are the poppies just to remember the British dead, or those they killed / slaughtered also during their campaigns?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 13, 2012, 08:31:18 AM
Quote from: Cold tea on November 13, 2012, 08:28:17 AM
Are the poppies just to remember the British dead, or those they killed / slaughtered also during their campaigns?

Chinese poppy makers couldn't keep up with demand from all round the world if that was the case.

Spotted Louis Walsh with a very dapper one, just like the man himself..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2012, 09:01:18 AM
Quote from: Leo on November 12, 2012, 10:56:16 PM
You know what, if a young nationalist from Derry choses to earn his (overpaid) living at the expense of British soccer supporters he might consider having some respect for how they feel.

On what basis do you claim this to be the viewpoint of 'them', i.e. British soccer supporters?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2012, 09:06:23 AM
Quote from: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
Why were no players wearing these poppy things in the 70's, 80's or 90's?
Don't recall too many people wearing them in England - mostly only done in the triumphalist 'wee sicks' counties!!
It's been some sensationalist pressurizing ( bullying) to press gang people int wearing these daft looking thing!!

I recall a few years ago in lansdowne road at a rugby international v the jockos , a couple of al-star rugby fans started booing softly during Amhrain Na bhfiann - but stopped after a few glares in their direction from surrounding fans !
They were not wearing any Irish colours ( as was their right and choice) but sporting ulster gear and 'supporting' Ireland.
No one was press ganging them into 'the wearing of the green'.

This poppy lark is revisionist poppycock !!
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.

Has anyone on this thread said that people go to Remembrance Day services to antagonise the Taigs?  lynchbhoy certainly doesn't say anything of the sort in the piece you have quoted.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 13, 2012, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
Why were no players wearing these poppy things in the 70's, 80's or 90's?
Don't recall too many people wearing them in England - mostly only done in the triumphalist 'wee sicks' counties!!
It's been some sensationalist pressurizing ( bullying) to press gang people int wearing these daft looking thing!!

I recall a few years ago in lansdowne road at a rugby international v the jockos , a couple of al-star rugby fans started booing softly during Amhrain Na bhfiann - but stopped after a few glares in their direction from surrounding fans !
They were not wearing any Irish colours ( as was their right and choice) but sporting ulster gear and 'supporting' Ireland.
No one was press ganging them into 'the wearing of the green'.

This poppy lark is revisionist poppycock !!
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.

You may have a point, but it doesn't explain the pressure put on people like James McClean is now baring the brunt of for not wearing one. The Donna Trainor debacle is another example of it.

I've no problem with people honouring their war dead, but don't expect me to feel the same way.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AM
What would posters estimate the sectarian breakdown was of those who attended Remembrance Day ceremonies in N Ireland?

In my view the Royal British Legion in N Ireland should be doing a lot more to reach out to Nationalists/Republicans, you know like if they "moved on" (after all, WW1 has been over for 94 years, long time ago wasn't it) and made an effort to get rid of symbols that may make Nationalists uncomfortable e.g. The word "Royal", the word "British", Union flags, British Army standards, emmm, the poppy...oh wait ;)

The crux of the issue of poppy wearing esp in NI is that in the post partition years and particularly after WW2 the poppy (wrongly in my view) became a badge of identity in N Ireland which marked you out as either one of "us" or one of "them" and anyone who thinks this isn't the case is frankly living in cloud cuckoo land.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on November 13, 2012, 09:59:24 AM
Quote from: Cold tea on November 13, 2012, 08:28:17 AM
Are the poppies just to remember the British dead, or those they killed / slaughtered also during their campaigns?
Good question there.
I'm a Unionist and when i wear a poppy, and never before November, usually about the 6th inside i'm thinking about all the lives wasted through war.

Maybe that's only me.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 10:34:08 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2012, 11:13:17 PMYou have NO RIGHT TO FORCE YOUR SYMBOLS down our necks. The Poppy no matter how the sheeple of the island of Britain and its colonial offspring like to paint it, the Poppy is British Nationalism and the Poppy Appeal is simply Marshial Societal conditioning. I don't seem to see the Republic of Ireland's biggest foregin resident ethnic group the British being FORCED to wear Easter Lillys, to fly the Irish tricolour above their places of residence and work, to Sycophantic lick the arsehole of our Head of State.
Says the man who reckons it's "Time to take a more chill-pill approach to life"   ;)

You know, for all that this is a serious topic, of all the posters on this thread, you're the one who makes me laugh out loud, as I imagine you coughing and spluttering your way through November, outraged, nay OUTRAGED, at the sight of the invidious paper flower in people's lapels!

But I do have one query. Heretofore, I have only pushed Poppies down peoples throats. How do I get them down their neck? Does it require a degree of cooperation on behalf of the poor victim, or is there some knack to getting it past the gullet?

Finally, seeing as you're a proud Fine Gael man, would it suit you better (and spare your blood pressure), if I were to sport a Laurel Leaf instead?

(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/images/tile/2012/1112/1224326472470_1.jpg?ts=1352802254)
Taoiseach Enda Kenny lays a wreath at the war memorial in Enniskillen, Co Fermanagh, on Remembrance Day

(http://static3.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1500-2/photos/1352648652-dignitaries-lead-wreath-laying-at-belfast-remembrance-ceremony_1587552.jpg)
The Tanaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Mr Eamon Gilmore TD, lays a wreath at the Cenotaph in Belfast, at the national day of remembrance.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2012, 10:41:19 AM

Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:15:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:00:29 PM
The war memorial belongs to all, Catholics and Protestants alike blah blah blah. That's one of the arguments I've seen bandied about the most this weekend - Catholics and Irish nationalists died fighting in France, therefore people of a particular persuasion should "show respect". All well and good. Still don't see how any of that should be used as evidence a young Catholic, nationalist man from Derry should ever be criticised for choosing to not wear a poppy.
Of course there are very understandable reasons why "a young Catholic nationalist man from Derry" [sic] should not wish to wear a Poppy (though I fail to see why age, religion or gender should come into it).

But there are also reasons why a Derry Nationalist might not automatically be averse to the idea (whether he/she actually wears one or not). And one of these is that, contrary to popular understanding (myth even),  the tradition of Derry people serving in the British Armed Forces has never been confined solely to the Unionist tradition.

And since Derry's War Dead came from all parts and traditions of the city, all of its people should be equally permitted to mark, or not mark, Remembrance Sunday entirely as they wish.

Or do you not agree?

Amazing how someone can post a piece about Nationalists fron Derry and the British Army and not even mention Bloody Sunday   ::) ( I suppose you buried it in the "many reasons" euphemism?)
More of the Unionist blinkered view of history coming to the fore ??
Until ye lads face up to ye're side's wrong doings there will be no "moving on" for ye.
Or do you not agree?  :-\
Also no mention of the many Derry Nationalist ex British soldiers returning their medals in protest after Bloody Sunday.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
Quote from: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
Why were no players wearing these poppy things in the 70's, 80's or 90's?
Don't recall too many people wearing them in England - mostly only done in the triumphalist 'wee sicks' counties!!
It's been some sensationalist pressurizing ( bullying) to press gang people int wearing these daft looking thing!!

I recall a few years ago in lansdowne road at a rugby international v the jockos , a couple of al-star rugby fans started booing softly during Amhrain Na bhfiann - but stopped after a few glares in their direction from surrounding fans !
They were not wearing any Irish colours ( as was their right and choice) but sporting ulster gear and 'supporting' Ireland.
No one was press ganging them into 'the wearing of the green'.

This poppy lark is revisionist poppycock !!
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.
Not all but some certainly do, a bit like some of those wearing shamrock on Paddy's Day. But if the IFA is serious about making soccer more welcoming to nationalists they would avoid having silences etc at Irish League games for politically divisive events.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 10:53:57 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2012, 08:16:26 AMThat does not explain why poppies were worn by the truckload in the north of Ireland when in England etc these were worn by tiny minority??
It doesn't explain it, because it's simply not true. Iirc, you make the same claim every year at this time, without ever providing anything to back it up. Then again, you cannot, since the only evidence either way is to be found in the amounts of money raised by the Poppy Appeal in the different regions of the UK, which does NOT reveal "truckloads" of cash from NI, but only a pittance from GB:
One million pounds raised in NI (2009)
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ukandireland/poppy-appeal-in-northern-ireland-breaks-pound1m-barrier-14609389.html
UK Target of £42m for 2012:
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/support-us/

Rather, if only you could be hionest with yourself, the real reason for your false perception is likely that you notice every Poppy in NI, since it denotes one of "Themmuns" (in your tiny mind), whilst the sight of a poppy in GB goes unremarked by you.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2012, 08:16:26 AMGreat that your services were sincere etc - but the need/requirement to have to sport a poppy is because...?
I'm sure the dead can be remembered without some childish badge!
"Childish"? That says rather more about you than it does about the Poppy.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2012, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2012, 10:41:19 AM
Until ye lads face up to ye're side's wrong doings there will be no "moving on" for ye.

Rules of thumb re Unionism and 'wrong doings':

1. You can accept that wrongs were committed in general, but never admit to any particular wrong. So the British Army did some bad things, but each specific example of a wrong will be blamed on the provocation of the Provos/PD's/Stickies/Jack Lynch/Colonel Gaddafi.
2. Everything that was objectionable about the Northern state was fixed in the early 1970's.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 11:09:02 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AMWhat would posters estimate the sectarian breakdown was of those who attended Remembrance Day ceremonies in N Ireland?
I have no idea, though I know for a fact that when i was younger, many members of my local RBL in NI were Nationalists/Catholics. And I suspect that there may be others who may privately have been sympathetic towards Remembrance Day etc, but were discouraged from displaying it.
That said, this latter may be changing:
[Liam Logue of the SDLP] has been wearing a poppy, usually the smaller enamelled version. "I wore it last Sunday to Mass in Bangor where there were other people with poppies on"
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/the-sdlp-man-who-wants-other-nationalists-to-wear-a-poppy-16235276.html#ixzz2C6CgpELK

Quote from: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AMIn my view the Royal British Legion in N Ireland should be doing a lot more to reach out to Nationalists/Republicans, you know like if they "moved on" (after all, WW1 has been over for 94 years, long time ago wasn't it) and made an effort to get rid of symbols that may make Nationalists uncomfortable e.g. The word "Royal", the word "British", Union flags, British Army standards, emmm, the poppy...oh wait ;)
I honestly can't figure out if you're being serious or not with this comment.

Quote from: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AMThe crux of the issue of poppy wearing esp in NI is that in the post partition years and particularly after WW2 the poppy (wrongly in my view) became a badge of identity in N Ireland which marked you out as either one of "us" or one of "them" and anyone who thinks this isn't the case is frankly living in cloud cuckoo land.
Incorrect.

The crux of the matter is that with the Poppy, as with so many other aspects of life in NI (first and surnames, address, school, football club etc), people will try to (ahem) buttonhole you as being either one of "Ussuns", or one of "Themmuns".

Which is bad enough in itself, since it is not a surefire identifier.

But it becomes so much worse when people then ascribe political or sectarian motives to the wearer of the Poppy, even when he/she is a complete stranger, about whom they know precisely nothing.

And yes, I'm talking about the likes of MGHU and Lynchbhoy...  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 11:17:15 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
Quote from: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.
Not all but some certainly do, a bit like some of those wearing shamrock on Paddy's Day.
Some may do, but you cannot make your assertion with certainty unless you've actually asked them what their motives are.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
But if the IFA is serious about making soccer more welcoming to nationalists they would avoid having silences etc at Irish League games for politically divisive events.
First of all, the IFA issued no instruction to clubs as to what they may or may not do regarding this matter.
Second, Cliftonville FC chose voluntarily to mark the minutes silence.
They could have decided not to, had they wished.
If you think it was inappropriate, you should direct your criticism to that club.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 13, 2012, 11:29:06 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 11:17:15 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
Quote from: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.
Not all but some certainly do, a bit like some of those wearing shamrock on Paddy's Day.
Some may do, but you cannot make your assertion with certainty unless you've actually asked them what their motives are.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
But if the IFA is serious about making soccer more welcoming to nationalists they would avoid having silences etc at Irish League games for politically divisive events.
First of all, the IFA issued no instruction to clubs as to what they may or may not do regarding this matter.
Second, Cliftonville FC chose voluntarily to mark the minutes silence.
They could have decided not to, had they wished.
If you think it was inappropriate, you should direct your criticism to that club.

and if some fans choose to protest at that by singing a song about a young guy murdered at the hands of british hooligans in a uniform, where is the harm in that? they broke no laws.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 13, 2012, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 12, 2012, 09:30:49 PM
Don't remember many members of the occupation forces here sent back to Blighty in a box getting the full Wootten Bassett treatment, either ... it's all part of a push by the British establishment to get the population behind the military so less of them will question their illegal presence in Iraq and their totally futile presence in Afghanistan

Spot on.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 12:01:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 11:09:02 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AMWhat would posters estimate the sectarian breakdown was of those who attended Remembrance Day ceremonies in N Ireland?
I have no idea, though I know for a fact that when i was younger, many members of my local RBL in NI were Nationalists/Catholics. And I suspect that there may be others who may privately have been sympathetic towards Remembrance Day etc, but were discouraged from displaying it.
That said, this latter may be changing:
[Liam Logue of the SDLP] has been wearing a poppy, usually the smaller enamelled version. "I wore it last Sunday to Mass in Bangor where there were other people with poppies on"
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/the-sdlp-man-who-wants-other-nationalists-to-wear-a-poppy-16235276.html#ixzz2C6CgpELK

Quote from: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AMIn my view the Royal British Legion in N Ireland should be doing a lot more to reach out to Nationalists/Republicans, you know like if they "moved on" (after all, WW1 has been over for 94 years, long time ago wasn't it) and made an effort to get rid of symbols that may make Nationalists uncomfortable e.g. The word "Royal", the word "British", Union flags, British Army standards, emmm, the poppy...oh wait ;)
I honestly can't figure out if you're being serious or not with this comment.

Quote from: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AMThe crux of the issue of poppy wearing esp in NI is that in the post partition years and particularly after WW2 the poppy (wrongly in my view) became a badge of identity in N Ireland which marked you out as either one of "us" or one of "them" and anyone who thinks this isn't the case is frankly living in cloud cuckoo land.
Incorrect.

The crux of the matter is that with the Poppy, as with so many other aspects of life in NI (first and surnames, address, school, football club etc), people will try to (ahem) buttonhole you as being either one of "Ussuns", or one of "Themmuns".

Which is bad enough in itself, since it is not a surefire identifier.

But it becomes so much worse when people then ascribe political or sectarian motives to the wearer of the Poppy, even when he/she is a complete stranger, about whom they know precisely nothing.

And yes, I'm talking about the likes of MGHU and Lynchbhoy...  ::)

though I know for a fact that when i was younger, many members of my local RBL in NI were Nationalists/Catholics

Ref your local RBL, could you estimate the percentage of members who were from a Catholic/Nationalist background, how you knew they were from this background, and in your day how many total members were there in your branch?

And I suspect that there may be others who may privately have been sympathetic towards Remembrance Day etc, but were discouraged from displaying it.

Discouraged by what/whom, and why do you suspect this is?

I honestly can't figure out if you're being serious or not with this comment.

;)

I have no idea

If I were to estimate that of all those people who attended Remembrance Day ceremonies in N Ireland at the weekend, say, 95% came from a Protestant/Unionist background, how accurate do you think that would be?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: camanchero on November 13, 2012, 12:20:15 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 10:53:57 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2012, 08:16:26 AMThat does not explain why poppies were worn by the truckload in the north of Ireland when in England etc these were worn by tiny minority??
It doesn't explain it, because it's simply not true. Iirc, you make the same claim every year at this time, without ever providing anything to back it up. Then again, you cannot, since the only evidence either way is to be found in the amounts of money raised by the Poppy Appeal in the different regions of the UK, which does NOT reveal "truckloads" of cash from NI, but only a pittance from GB:
One million pounds raised in NI (2009)
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ukandireland/poppy-appeal-in-northern-ireland-breaks-pound1m-barrier-14609389.html
UK Target of £42m for 2012:
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/support-us/

Rather, if only you could be hionest with yourself, the real reason for your false perception is likely that you notice every Poppy in NI, since it denotes one of "Themmuns" (in your tiny mind), whilst the sight of a poppy in GB goes unremarked by you.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2012, 08:16:26 AMGreat that your services were sincere etc - but the need/requirement to have to sport a poppy is because...?
I'm sure the dead can be remembered without some childish badge!
"Childish"? That says rather more about you than it does about the Poppy.
living in england throughout the 70's and discussed this with several people who lived there in the 70's 80's and 90's has been enough proof for me.

the collections may have went on -but the wearing of the poppy was the preserve mostly of the north of Ireland.
Have also heard that this was the same in the 50's and 60's from talking to an older gentleman a short while ago.
I cannot see why you would want to dismiss the reality ?
it is of no huge consequence - other than to prove that the north had more badge wearing triumphalist people and modern times a big push has occurred to have the poppy thrown at every person in england , Scotland and Wales also to shame them into wearing one.
thats the reality, and the truth - seen with my own eyes.
How about you ask some of your English neighbours and they will put you right on this !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 13, 2012, 12:56:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 11:09:02 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AMWhat would posters estimate the sectarian breakdown was of those who attended Remembrance Day ceremonies in N Ireland?
I have no idea, though I know for a fact that when i was younger, many members of my local RBL in NI were Nationalists/Catholics. And I suspect that there may be others who may privately have been sympathetic towards Remembrance Day etc, but were discouraged from displaying it.
That said, this latter may be changing:
[Liam Logue of the SDLP] has been wearing a poppy, usually the smaller enamelled version. "I wore it last Sunday to Mass in Bangor where there were other people with poppies on"
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/the-sdlp-man-who-wants-other-nationalists-to-wear-a-poppy-16235276.html#ixzz2C6CgpELK

Quote from: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AMIn my view the Royal British Legion in N Ireland should be doing a lot more to reach out to Nationalists/Republicans, you know like if they "moved on" (after all, WW1 has been over for 94 years, long time ago wasn't it) and made an effort to get rid of symbols that may make Nationalists uncomfortable e.g. The word "Royal", the word "British", Union flags, British Army standards, emmm, the poppy...oh wait ;)
I honestly can't figure out if you're being serious or not with this comment.

Quote from: AQMP on November 13, 2012, 09:43:24 AMThe crux of the issue of poppy wearing esp in NI is that in the post partition years and particularly after WW2 the poppy (wrongly in my view) became a badge of identity in N Ireland which marked you out as either one of "us" or one of "them" and anyone who thinks this isn't the case is frankly living in cloud cuckoo land.
Incorrect.

The crux of the matter is that with the Poppy, as with so many other aspects of life in NI (first and surnames, address, school, football club etc), people will try to (ahem) buttonhole you as being either one of "Ussuns", or one of "Themmuns".

Which is bad enough in itself, since it is not a surefire identifier.

But it becomes so much worse when people then ascribe political or sectarian motives to the wearer of the Poppy, even when he/she is a complete stranger, about whom they know precisely nothing.

And yes, I'm talking about the likes of MGHU and Lynchbhoy...  ::)

O don't worry, I don't attribute it all to a sectarian or rather a political breakdown as I not a believer in a Catholic-Protestant breakdown, more a Unionist-Nationalist, Royalist-Republican breatdown (sometimes, but rarely Unionist Republicans and Nationalist Royalists). In England and Wales I believe the Poppy is worn for the following reasons, 1. British Nationalism both genuine pride (good) and racism (bad), 2. Blind Patriotic fervor, (3) Family or friends in or were in British Forces, (4) Fashionable/Trendy (5) Overt and casual Sectarianism (almost all turn out to have Unionist/Loyalist parents/grandparents from the 6 counties among people I know over here from that group)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rois on November 13, 2012, 01:28:19 PM
My poppy watch - I was in Krakow at the weekend and visited Auschwitz - there were poppies on the wooden crosses left at the memorial in the Birkenau camp.  I found it very touching and appropriate there.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: EC Unique on November 13, 2012, 01:30:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 13, 2012, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 12, 2012, 09:30:49 PM
Don't remember many members of the occupation forces here sent back to Blighty in a box getting the full Wootten Bassett treatment, either ... it's all part of a push by the British establishment to get the population behind the military so less of them will question their illegal presence in Iraq and their totally futile presence in Afghanistan

Spot on.

Nail on the head there. Propaganda at it's best.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 13, 2012, 02:15:13 PM
I see the Taoiseach and Irish Army laid laurel wreaths (sans Poppy on either Taoiseach, Irish Officer or Irish Wreath), can we expect to see the leaders if Northern Irish Unionism follow their Queen's example, perhaps they can lay Poppies on the memorials of 1916, 1918-1922, 1798 etc. to show that those poppies are also for those that fought foreign oppression and struck a blow for freedom (like their claims of the works of the British armed forces).

Let them lay them on the graves of Independence fighters in the USA (and the other gallant Allies  ;) France and Spain), China, Kenya, South Africa, Cyprus, Israel, Iran, India, Afganistan, Sudan, Joan of Arc etc.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 13, 2012, 02:19:59 PM
British Imperalism, just stick a Poppy on it and pretend the rest of the World are the bad guys. Funny coming from the largest Imperial Empire in the history of mankind.

Why are Unionists not embarrassed of 95% of their history. Any rational mind would be.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: camanchero on November 13, 2012, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 13, 2012, 02:19:59 PM
British Imperalism, just stick a Poppy on it and pretend the rest of the World are the bad guys. Funny coming from the largest Imperial Empire in the history of mankind.

Why are Unionists not embarrassed of 95% of their history. Any rational mind would be.
not embarrassed as it seems that you (and me apparantly) are 'making it all up' about any 'bad' thing that unionist/loyalists have done.

what a simpleton. trying to tell people what they have seen and what they didnt see.
Telling people that poppy wearers didnt do it as a 'badge' (as it inconveniently masks that ordinary peopl ein England, Scotland and Wales didnt wear them).

I only recall a handful of people wearing poppies - a firends grandfather who fought in WW2 for example - but back across the water on the Irish mainland, in the six counties there were more on show than in flanders I think !!
:D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 11:17:15 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
Quote from: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.
Not all but some certainly do, a bit like some of those wearing shamrock on Paddy's Day.
Some may do, but you cannot make your assertion with certainty unless you've actually asked them what their motives are.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
But if the IFA is serious about making soccer more welcoming to nationalists they would avoid having silences etc at Irish League games for politically divisive events.
First of all, the IFA issued no instruction to clubs as to what they may or may not do regarding this matter.
Second, Cliftonville FC chose voluntarily to mark the minutes silence.
They could have decided not to, had they wished.
If you think it was inappropriate, you should direct your criticism to that club.
What position do you hold in the IFA?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fitzroyalty on November 13, 2012, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: Leo on November 12, 2012, 10:56:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 12, 2012, 07:15:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2012, 07:00:29 PM
The war memorial belongs to all, Catholics and Protestants alike blah blah blah. That's one of the arguments I've seen bandied about the most this weekend - Catholics and Irish nationalists died fighting in France, therefore people of a particular persuasion should "show respect". All well and good. Still don't see how any of that should be used as evidence a young Catholic, nationalist man from Derry should ever be criticised for choosing to not wear a poppy.
Of course there are very understandable reasons why "a young Catholic nationalist man from Derry" [sic] should not wish to wear a Poppy (though I fail to see why age, religion or gender should come into it).

But there are also reasons why a Derry Nationalist might not automatically be averse to the idea (whether he/she actually wears one or not). And one of these is that, contrary to popular understanding (myth even),  the tradition of Derry people serving in the British Armed Forces has never been confined solely to the Unionist tradition.

And since Derry's War Dead came from all parts and traditions of the city, all of its people should be equally permitted to mark, or not mark, Remembrance Sunday entirely as they wish.

Or do you not agree?

You know what, if a young nationalist from Derry choses to earn his (overpaid) living at the expense of British soccer supporters he might consider having some respect for how they feel. The nationalist bigotry and ignorance about remembrance day and how it symbolises OUR freedom is staggering.
Bullshit.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: GAA_Talk on November 13, 2012, 10:09:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 11:17:15 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
Quote from: michaelg on November 12, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Again and again in this thread, there is the belief that Unionists only wear poppies and attend remembrance services to antagonize Nationalists / Republicans.  As someone from a Unionist background, it is my opinion that this is not the case.
Not all but some certainly do, a bit like some of those wearing shamrock on Paddy's Day.
Some may do, but you cannot make your assertion with certainty unless you've actually asked them what their motives are.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2012, 10:44:50 AM
But if the IFA is serious about making soccer more welcoming to nationalists they would avoid having silences etc at Irish League games for politically divisive events.
First of all, the IFA issued no instruction to clubs as to what they may or may not do regarding this matter.
Second, Cliftonville FC chose voluntarily to mark the minutes silence.
They could have decided not to, had they wished.
If you think it was inappropriate, you should direct your criticism to that club.
What position do you hold in the IFA?

:)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 13, 2012, 11:05:52 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 13, 2012, 10:34:08 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 12, 2012, 11:13:17 PMYou have NO RIGHT TO FORCE YOUR SYMBOLS down our necks. The Poppy no matter how the sheeple of the island of Britain and its colonial offspring like to paint it, the Poppy is British Nationalism and the Poppy Appeal is simply Marshial Societal conditioning. I don't seem to see the Republic of Ireland's biggest foregin resident ethnic group the British being FORCED to wear Easter Lillys, to fly the Irish tricolour above their places of residence and work, to Sycophantic lick the arsehole of our Head of State.
Says the man who reckons it's "Time to take a more chill-pill approach to life"   ;)

You know, for all that this is a serious topic, of all the posters on this thread, you're the one who makes me laugh out loud, as I imagine you coughing and spluttering your way through November, outraged, nay OUTRAGED, at the sight of the invidious paper flower in people's lapels!

But I do have one query. Heretofore, I have only pushed Poppies down peoples throats. How do I get them down their neck? Does it require a degree of cooperation on behalf of the poor victim, or is there some knack to getting it past the gullet?

Finally, seeing as you're a proud Fine Gael man, would it suit you better (and spare your blood pressure), if I were to sport a Laurel Leaf instead?

(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/images/tile/2012/1112/1224326472470_1.jpg?ts=1352802254)
Taoiseach Enda Kenny lays a wreath at the war memorial in Enniskillen, Co Fermanagh, on Remembrance Day

(http://static3.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1500-2/photos/1352648652-dignitaries-lead-wreath-laying-at-belfast-remembrance-ceremony_1587552.jpg)
The Tanaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Mr Eamon Gilmore TD, lays a wreath at the Cenotaph in Belfast, at the national day of remembrance.

Have I not already mentioned our Taoiseach and the fact that he nor Irish army officers wore the Poppy. Your just proving my point. I have no problem with the minutes silence. My issue is with the poppy and its association with the war machine that is the British Army.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 13, 2012, 11:08:59 PM
I was thinking about it and now I think I understand the British/Unionist thought process, Irish players in Britain should wear the Poppy and British footballers should respect German customs in Germany.

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/03/magazine_enl_1064218142/img/1.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 13, 2012, 11:57:17 PM
Godwin strikes again.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 14, 2012, 12:04:08 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 13, 2012, 11:57:17 PM
Godwin strikes again.

Godwins law does not say that a reference may not be appropriate, this is a reference of comparing two symbols and two football matches.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 14, 2012, 12:09:02 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 14, 2012, 12:04:08 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 13, 2012, 11:57:17 PM
Godwin strikes again.

Godwins law does not say that a reference may not be appropriate, this is a reference of comparing two symbols and two football matches.

i find it impossible not to think of it when discussing matters pertaining to the brits. seems so apt at times.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 14, 2012, 12:10:48 AM
but surely you are not saying it is a German custom to give nazi salutes now?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 14, 2012, 02:50:11 PM
good column from Allison Morris in today's Irish News in regards to poppy fascism.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 14, 2012, 08:27:38 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 12, 2012, 09:30:49 PM
Don't remember many members of the occupation forces here sent back to Blighty in a box getting the full Wootten Bassett treatment, either ... it's all part of a push by the British establishment to get the population behind the military so less of them will question their illegal presence in Iraq and their totally futile presence in Afghanistan

That's certainly a big part of it.

Ostensibly worn to 'honour those who fought for freedom' (sic), but woe betide the individual who chooses to exercise their own personal freedom and decides not to wear one. No one does hypocrisy like the the British establishment does hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 14, 2012, 09:26:00 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 13, 2012, 11:08:59 PM
I was thinking about it and now I think I understand the British/Unionist thought process, Irish players in Britain should wear the Poppy and British footballers should respect German customs in Germany.

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/03/magazine_enl_1064218142/img/1.jpg)

Says it all really!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: spuds on November 14, 2012, 09:37:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 14, 2012, 09:26:00 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 13, 2012, 11:08:59 PM
I was thinking about it and now I think I understand the British/Unionist thought process, Irish players in Britain should wear the Poppy and British footballers should respect German customs in Germany.

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/03/magazine_enl_1064218142/img/1.jpg)

Says it all really!
Tony Adams' testimonial ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 14, 2012, 10:23:08 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 14, 2012, 02:50:11 PM
good column from Allison Morris in today's Irish News in regards to poppy fascism.

Yes, just read it. Good article indeed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: magpie seanie on November 19, 2012, 04:17:02 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 12, 2012, 11:32:19 AM
Fair play to James mcclean for standing up for what he believes.
asking someone from the creggan to wear a symbol supporting the british army is like asking some one from liverpool to wear a symbol supporting west midlands police.
I couldnt see the same outcry if that was refused

Only heard about the James McClean situation there now and his post sums it up perfectly.

Can anyone tell me did Aguero or Tevez wear one?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ballinaman on November 19, 2012, 04:23:22 PM
Yep and Zabaleta

(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/857976/thumbs/o-AGUERO-570.jpg?3)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 19, 2012, 05:04:27 PM
Is there a recognised symbol that could be worn in thanks to the Allied forces that beat Hitler?  I think most people are thankful for that. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: magpie seanie on November 19, 2012, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 19, 2012, 05:04:27 PM
Is there a recognised symbol that could be worn in thanks to the Allied forces that beat Hitler?  I think most people are thankful for that.

Yes but clearly the poppy isn't that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 19, 2012, 05:25:08 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 19, 2012, 05:04:27 PM
Is there a recognised symbol that could be worn in thanks to the Allied forces that beat Hitler?  I think most people are thankful for that.

A recognised symbol that will give thanks to the Red Army? Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 19, 2012, 05:50:40 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/euroflag.png)

I know - some will say the Germans won in the end anyway, but the Europe represented by this flag is somewhat different to what it would be under the swastika.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 19, 2012, 06:32:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 19, 2012, 05:50:40 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/euroflag.png)

I know - some will say the Germans won in the end anyway, but the Europe represented by this flag is somewhat different to what it would be under the swastika.

This is true, so it makes you wonder why the British appear to be so suspicious and sceptical about it?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 19, 2012, 06:34:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 19, 2012, 05:25:08 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 19, 2012, 05:04:27 PM
Is there a recognised symbol that could be worn in thanks to the Allied forces that beat Hitler?  I think most people are thankful for that.

A recognised symbol that will give thanks to the Red Army? Good luck with that.

I know...a red flower to represent the USSR with a black centre to represent Prods.



I'm going home now...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2012, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 19, 2012, 06:32:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 19, 2012, 05:50:40 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/euroflag.png)

I know - some will say the Germans won in the end anyway, but the Europe represented by this flag is somewhat different to what it would be under the swastika.

This is true, so it makes you wonder why the British appear to be so suspicious and sceptical about it?

I seem to remember a few years back the DUP sort and some other North European Germanic Protestant right wing groups suggesting that the 12 stars was a "Roman Catholic Symbol", others that it was a Communist Organisation, you know those RC Communists and their European Union eh  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2012, 06:42:57 PM
I think the European Union flag is a great symbol to wear, I might cover myself head to toe in it next Poppy Day.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 19, 2012, 07:22:34 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 19, 2012, 05:25:08 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 19, 2012, 05:04:27 PM
Is there a recognised symbol that could be worn in thanks to the Allied forces that beat Hitler?  I think most people are thankful for that.

A recognised symbol that will give thanks to the Red Army? Good luck with that.

Indeed. The British are always bumming and blowing about how they won the war, which is strange considering 9 out of 10 Germans killed in WWII died on the Eastern Front at the hands of the glorious Red Army.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 19, 2012, 07:38:48 PM
I don't think the Brits are always blowing about winning WWII. I think their take on WWII was that it was a gloriously defiant stand against a very powerful enemy. I think the Brits can probably justifiably say they won the war in Africa, but I find it's the Americans who think they won WWII. I think it's just lucky that Hitler attacked Russia when he did. If he hadn't opened up a second front in Europe then, Britain and the other Allies were in big trouble.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on November 19, 2012, 09:22:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 19, 2012, 07:38:48 PM
I don't think the Brits are always blowing about winning WWII. I think their take on WWII was that it was a gloriously defiant stand against a very powerful enemy. I think the Brits can probably justifiably say they won the war in Africa, but I find it's the Americans who think they won WWII. I think it's just lucky that Hitler attacked Russia when he did. If he hadn't opened up a second front in Europe then, Britain and the other Allies were in big trouble.

Indeed.

The U.K. and Ireland would have been facked if Germany had not invaded Russia.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 19, 2012, 09:32:43 PM
Quote from: dillinger on November 19, 2012, 09:22:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 19, 2012, 07:38:48 PM
I don't think the Brits are always blowing about winning WWII. I think their take on WWII was that it was a gloriously defiant stand against a very powerful enemy. I think the Brits can probably justifiably say they won the war in Africa, but I find it's the Americans who think they won WWII. I think it's just lucky that Hitler attacked Russia when he did. If he hadn't opened up a second front in Europe then, Britain and the other Allies were in big trouble.

Indeed.

The U.K. and Ireland would have been facked if Germany had not invaded Russia.

The raison d'etre of Nazism was to create lebensraum in the east. If Germany had not been of the mind to invade the Soviet Union, they wouldn't invaded anyone else either.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2012, 10:49:22 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 19, 2012, 09:32:43 PM
Quote from: dillinger on November 19, 2012, 09:22:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 19, 2012, 07:38:48 PM
I don't think the Brits are always blowing about winning WWII. I think their take on WWII was that it was a gloriously defiant stand against a very powerful enemy. I think the Brits can probably justifiably say they won the war in Africa, but I find it's the Americans who think they won WWII. I think it's just lucky that Hitler attacked Russia when he did. If he hadn't opened up a second front in Europe then, Britain and the other Allies were in big trouble.

Indeed.

The U.K. and Ireland would have been facked if Germany had not invaded Russia.

The raison d'etre of Nazism was to create lebensraum in the east. If Germany had not been of the mind to invade the Soviet Union, they wouldn't invaded anyone else either.

Go East and its called Living Space, but go West its called Manifest Destiny.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2012, 11:15:53 PM
Quote from: dillinger on November 19, 2012, 09:22:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 19, 2012, 07:38:48 PM
I don't think the Brits are always blowing about winning WWII. I think their take on WWII was that it was a gloriously defiant stand against a very powerful enemy. I think the Brits can probably justifiably say they won the war in Africa, but I find it's the Americans who think they won WWII. I think it's just lucky that Hitler attacked Russia when he did. If he hadn't opened up a second front in Europe then, Britain and the other Allies were in big trouble.

Indeed.

The U.K. and Ireland would have been facked if Germany had not invaded Russia.

Sure Ireland would have been well used to foreign tyranny, but Britain would have been in for a shock
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 20, 2012, 09:54:18 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 19, 2012, 09:32:43 PM
Quote from: dillinger on November 19, 2012, 09:22:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 19, 2012, 07:38:48 PM
I don't think the Brits are always blowing about winning WWII. I think their take on WWII was that it was a gloriously defiant stand against a very powerful enemy. I think the Brits can probably justifiably say they won the war in Africa, but I find it's the Americans who think they won WWII. I think it's just lucky that Hitler attacked Russia when he did. If he hadn't opened up a second front in Europe then, Britain and the other Allies were in big trouble.

Indeed.

The U.K. and Ireland would have been facked if Germany had not invaded Russia.

The raison d'etre of Nazism was to create lebensraum in the east. If Germany had not been of the mind to invade the Soviet Union, they wouldn't invaded anyone else either.

Absolutely but it was the timing that fucked him. If hed continued to push home his advantage in the west it would have been curtains. To break his non aggression pact with Stalin when he did was his Waterloo.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 20, 2012, 10:49:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 20, 2012, 09:54:18 PM
Absolutely but it was the timing that fucked him. If hed continued to push home his advantage in the west it would have been curtains. To break his non aggression pact with Stalin when he did was his Waterloo.

But why would he have wanted to 'push home his advantage' in the west? If Germany conquered Britain and/or Ireland they would still have had to face the Soviet Union. And they still would have lost. My favourite tale about the sheer impossibility of conquering the Soviet Union is the observation of General Halder (http://militera.lib.ru/h/fugate/06.html) who "had to admit that these figures [about the size of the Red Army] were awry. Instead of the 200 divisions that he believed the Russians had originally deployed, 360 divisions had been identified on the entire eastern front". So two months into the campaign they found out the opposition was nearly twice the size originally thought! Nate Silver would have given Germany a 0% chance of success.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 11:10:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 20, 2012, 10:49:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 20, 2012, 09:54:18 PM
Absolutely but it was the timing that fucked him. If hed continued to push home his advantage in the west it would have been curtains. To break his non aggression pact with Stalin when he did was his Waterloo.

But why would he have wanted to 'push home his advantage' in the west? If Germany conquered Britain and/or Ireland they would still have had to face the Soviet Union. And they still would have lost. My favourite tale about the sheer impossibility of conquering the Soviet Union is the observation of General Halder (http://militera.lib.ru/h/fugate/06.html) who "had to admit that these figures [about the size of the Red Army] were awry. Instead of the 200 divisions that he believed the Russians had originally deployed, 360 divisions had been identified on the entire eastern front". So two months into the campaign they found out the opposition was nearly twice the size originally thought! Nate Silver would have given Germany a 0% chance of success.

Deiseach

This is an excellent read

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jun/21/stalin-hitler-mass-murder-starvation/

Stalin and Hitler were both f$cking nuts. They both wanted to build an alternative to Anglo American capitalism and both needed Ukraine to feed the machine.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 21, 2012, 09:28:36 AM
Antony Beevor's "Stalingrad" is an excellent read.  Hitler needed to capture the Soviet oil supply in the Caucasus.

I'm reading his book on the fall of Berlin at the minute.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Billys Boots on November 21, 2012, 11:22:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 11:10:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 20, 2012, 10:49:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 20, 2012, 09:54:18 PM
Absolutely but it was the timing that fucked him. If hed continued to push home his advantage in the west it would have been curtains. To break his non aggression pact with Stalin when he did was his Waterloo.

But why would he have wanted to 'push home his advantage' in the west? If Germany conquered Britain and/or Ireland they would still have had to face the Soviet Union. And they still would have lost. My favourite tale about the sheer impossibility of conquering the Soviet Union is the observation of General Halder (http://militera.lib.ru/h/fugate/06.html) who "had to admit that these figures [about the size of the Red Army] were awry. Instead of the 200 divisions that he believed the Russians had originally deployed, 360 divisions had been identified on the entire eastern front". So two months into the campaign they found out the opposition was nearly twice the size originally thought! Nate Silver would have given Germany a 0% chance of success.

Deiseach

This is an excellent read

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jun/21/stalin-hitler-mass-murder-starvation/

Stalin and Hitler were both f$cking nuts. They both wanted to build an alternative to Anglo American capitalism and both needed Ukraine to feed the machine.

Wait until Harry Redknapp gets his hands on the Ukraine!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 21, 2012, 11:24:42 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 20, 2012, 10:49:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 20, 2012, 09:54:18 PM
Absolutely but it was the timing that fucked him. If hed continued to push home his advantage in the west it would have been curtains. To break his non aggression pact with Stalin when he did was his Waterloo.

But why would he have wanted to 'push home his advantage' in the west? If Germany conquered Britain and/or Ireland they would still have had to face the Soviet Union. And they still would have lost. My favourite tale about the sheer impossibility of conquering the Soviet Union is the observation of General Halder (http://militera.lib.ru/h/fugate/06.html) who "had to admit that these figures [about the size of the Red Army] were awry. Instead of the 200 divisions that he believed the Russians had originally deployed, 360 divisions had been identified on the entire eastern front". So two months into the campaign they found out the opposition was nearly twice the size originally thought! Nate Silver would have given Germany a 0% chance of success.

He needed to deal with the west before he could take on the Soviets, for the precise reasons that he failed in the end (i.e. 2 fronts). By leaving Britain in the war, he left the door and an entry point open for the US, and Hitler knew the US was more favourably disposed to the Allied cause than the Axis one. If Hitler had managed to take Britain out of the war, the US would not have been able to use British soil as a staging area etc, and Hitler would have been able to leave an occupation force on the Western front, rather than a fighting army.

By jumping too soon at the throat of Russia, he essentially spread himself too thin, and the war was over. It was just a matter of when. He compounded his error by making the exact same mistake Napolean did. Ironically so, as he was supposedly a great student of Napolean, and should have learned from him about the dangers of trying to 'take' Russia in the winter.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 21, 2012, 11:31:36 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 21, 2012, 11:24:42 AM
He needed to deal with the west before he could take on the Soviets, for the precise reasons that he failed in the end (i.e. 2 fronts). By leaving Britain in the war, he left the door and an entry point open for the US, and Hitler knew the US was more favourably disposed to the Allied cause than the Axis one. If Hitler had managed to take Britain out of the war, the US would not have been able to use British soil as a staging area etc, and Hitler would have been able to leave an occupation force on the Western front, rather than a fighting army.

By jumping too soon at the throat of Russia, he essentially spread himself too thin, and the war was over. It was just a matter of when. He compounded his error by making the exact same mistake Napolean did. Ironically so, as he was supposedly a great student of Napolean, and should have learned from him about the dangers of trying to 'take' Russia in the winter

Do you really think that had Germany knocked Britain out they could have defeated the Soviet Union, and that waiting to attack would have made the Soviet Union more vulnerable?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 21, 2012, 11:38:46 AM
It was never going to work in my opinion, Russia was too big a chunk to chew, but I think the fact that he opened two fronts at the same time just doomed him. If he had managed to take Britain out of the War, and keep the US from entering it, then even a post war surrender with the Russians might have left a much different landscape in Western Europe. Hitler allowed his desire for lebensraum in the East, and his loathing of the Communist regime, to cloud his judgement. If he had listened to senior commanders he'd have at least played the long game and adhered to his non agression pact until he'd won the war in the west.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 21, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 21, 2012, 11:31:36 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 21, 2012, 11:24:42 AM
He needed to deal with the west before he could take on the Soviets, for the precise reasons that he failed in the end (i.e. 2 fronts). By leaving Britain in the war, he left the door and an entry point open for the US, and Hitler knew the US was more favourably disposed to the Allied cause than the Axis one. If Hitler had managed to take Britain out of the war, the US would not have been able to use British soil as a staging area etc, and Hitler would have been able to leave an occupation force on the Western front, rather than a fighting army.

By jumping too soon at the throat of Russia, he essentially spread himself too thin, and the war was over. It was just a matter of when. He compounded his error by making the exact same mistake Napolean did. Ironically so, as he was supposedly a great student of Napolean, and should have learned from him about the dangers of trying to 'take' Russia in the winter

Do you really think that had Germany knocked Britain out they could have defeated the Soviet Union, and that waiting to attack would have made the Soviet Union more vulnerable?

Also, the point I would make is not that it would make the Soviets *more* vulnerable, rather it would have made the Germans less vulnerable themselves.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 21, 2012, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 21, 2012, 11:38:46 AM
It was never going to work in my opinion, Russia was too big a chunk to chew, but I think the fact that he opened two fronts at the same time just doomed him. If he had managed to take Britain out of the War, and keep the US from entering it, then even a post war surrender with the Russians might have left a much different landscape in Western Europe. Hitler allowed his desire for lebensraum in the East, and his loathing of the Communist regime, to cloud his judgement. If he had listened to senior commanders he'd have at least played the long game and adhered to his non agression pact until he'd won the war in the west.

Okay, I take the point. As you say, western Europe would look very different had the western Allies not been able to establish a beachhead in France. How different, I don't know, but we can agree that it would have been different! I think it's pointless though trying to say that things might have worked out differently for Germany had Hitler not let his prejudices cloud his judgement. Nothing he did can be viewed through the prism of good judgement ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 21, 2012, 12:32:40 PM
I suppose you're right. A bit like Hicks & Gillette.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 21, 2012, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 21, 2012, 12:32:40 PM
I suppose you're right. A bit like Hicks & Gillette.

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me of that pair.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on December 16, 2012, 10:14:00 PM

Wear it with pride...


A former British Army doctor failed to protect detainees and acted dishonestly after the death of Iraqi prisoner Baha Mousa, medical watchdogs have ruled.

Dr Derek Keilloh, appearing before the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service (MPTS), denied any cover-up and claimed he only spotted dried blood around the nose of hotel receptionist Mr Mousa (26) after he was arrested and beaten by soldiers in Basra in 2003. Hooded with a sandbag for nearly 24 hours, he suffered 93 separate injuries including fractured ribs and a broken nose during the final 36 hours of his life in the custody of the 1st Battalion, Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

Dr Keilloh treated Mr Mousa on the night he died but repeatedly denied knowledge of such injuries.

The GP, who now works in North Yorkshire,  was found guilty of a series of failures after the death of Mr Mousa and his subsequent conduct.

The MPTS found he was aware of the injuries to the victim but failed to conduct an adequate examination of the body.

And knowing of the dead man's condition he then failed to assess other detainees or protect them from further mistreatment and tell senior officers what was going on.

The MPTS said he engaged in "misleading and dishonest" conduct when, at courts martials and a subsequent public inquiry, he maintained under oath he saw no injuries to Mr Mousa's body.

The tribunal will now retire to decide whether his behaviour amounts to misconduct, and if so, what the penalty should be.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on December 16, 2012, 10:52:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 20, 2012, 09:54:18 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 19, 2012, 09:32:43 PM
Quote from: dillinger on November 19, 2012, 09:22:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 19, 2012, 07:38:48 PM
I don't think the Brits are always blowing about winning WWII. I think their take on WWII was that it was a gloriously defiant stand against a very powerful enemy. I think the Brits can probably justifiably say they won the war in Africa, but I find it's the Americans who think they won WWII. I think it's just lucky that Hitler attacked Russia when he did. If he hadn't opened up a second front in Europe then, Britain and the other Allies were in big trouble.

Indeed.

The U.K. and Ireland would have been facked if Germany had not invaded Russia.

The raison d'etre of Nazism was to create lebensraum in the east. If Germany had not been of the mind to invade the Soviet Union, they wouldn't invaded anyone else either.

Absolutely but it was the timing that fucked him. If hed continued to push home his advantage in the west it would have been curtains. To break his non aggression pact with Stalin when he did was his Waterloo.

He failed because he failed to learn from history and in the process millions of people died needlessly, he was a better soldier than he ever was military strategist and he was an evil bastard who wreaked havoc and misery on a global scale.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on December 17, 2012, 12:54:49 AM
That's the thing about the gaaboard - the totally unexpected insights.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2012, 10:56:28 AM
Quote from: stew on December 16, 2012, 10:52:04 PM
He failed because he failed to learn from history and in the process millions of people died needlessly, he was a better soldier than he ever was military strategist and he was an evil b**tard who wreaked havoc and misery on a global scale.

You could be talking about Bush there, or indeed a goodly number of US Presidents.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: God14 on January 22, 2013, 08:45:18 AM
Absolutely delighted to read this morning that Colin Murray has been axed from his role presenting MOTD2

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2266133/Colin-Murray-axed-Match-Day-2-presenter-Mark-Champman-replacement.html

The above article includes references were the likes of Alan Hansen had to tell him to "leave the negative comments to the experts!"
However his comments on James McCleans refusal to wear the poppy were totally and completely unacceptable. MOTD isnt the place for a ballybeen estate loyalist to make snide remarks on such a contentious & emotive subject - where McClean couldnt defend himself. To be honest I was dissapointed that they were not edited out as the show isnt live - but i guess the British propaganda machine knows no boundaries.

Justice has been done here. Good riddance to Murray, he should never have had the opportunity anyway as he is a shite presenter at that.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Onion Bag on January 22, 2013, 08:50:34 AM
Cant stand him, he put me off wathing the Lakeside darts there a couple of week ago
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hereiam on January 22, 2013, 09:22:16 AM
Cant stand the p***k either. He put me off watching MOTD2 and the darts.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Feckitt on January 22, 2013, 10:17:31 AM
What exactly did he say about McClean?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: God14 on January 22, 2013, 10:27:20 AM
I suppose the transcript of his words wouldnt do it justice, but at the tail end of the show he made a big play on how ALMOST every footballer had paid their respects and worn the poppy.
Bear in mind McClean & Murray have history, and the main point in question is that MOTD has always been politically "neutral", I felt he was well out of line
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Subbie on January 22, 2013, 10:32:42 AM
just looked up colin murray on wiki  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Colin's passion for Radio came from his first career as a part-time member of the Fruit and Veg team in Sainsbury's at Forestside. After 3 weeks he left the job and began hustling 8 ball pool every Thursday night at Frames. It was at this venue were he famously came 9th in the 8 Ball Masters and from here he went on to become first reserve for the (SBBB) South Belfast Billiards Boys. Murray described his time with the SBBB as "a whirlwind of banter and an experience that I will never forget". To this day his cue remains in the club and in 2010 a statue was erected to honour his achievements, which was recently auctioned off for a staggering £13 to raise money for a vending machine at his old club.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on January 22, 2013, 01:15:09 PM
Never liked him on MOTD2. He ain't no Adrian Chiles!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on March 19, 2013, 08:01:14 PM
Wear it with pride...



The British government has apologised after the shooting of a disabled farm worker who ran away from soldiers almost 40 years ago in Northern Ireland.

John Pat Cunningham (27) had a mental age of less than 10 and a great fear of men in uniforms. He was unarmed when shot dead by soldiers from the Life Guard Regiment near his home in Benburb, Co Armagh.

Two soldiers suspected of the killing have refused to give an account.

The Historical Enquiries Team (HET), independent detectives investigating all conflict murders, said there were no grounds for their rearrest and no new lines of enquiry - a view disputed by his family.

Mr Cunningham's nephew Charlie Agnew said: "John Pat may have been disabled but he was a human being with exactly the same rights as anyone else.

"The question must be asked: did the British Army consider John Pat 'disposable'?"

The victim was walking home from the Servite Priory, where he helped out, in June 1974, along the Carrickaness Road when he was approached by a military patrol.

It had been deployed on follow-up operations after a different patrol was involved in a shooting incident with IRA gunmen two days previously.

A GP had already made representations to the Army about Mr Cunningham's fear of men in uniform.

Mr Cunningham appeared startled by the soldiers, jumped into a field and began to run for home pursued by two servicemen shouting commands for him to stop.

Evidence from another soldier, Soldier E, suggested he believed the man may have been armed, the HET report said.

Two troops then fired five shots and the victim died where he fell. It was not possible to determine who fired the fatal shot. The cause of death was recorded as bullet wound to the trunk, the HET added.

Soldiers A and B were interviewed briefly by the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) under caution and exercised their right to silence. The Director for Public Prosecutions (DPP) decided against criminal proceedings.

The HET concluded that, because of the absence of original case papers, it was not possible to establish whether the investigation into the death was independent.

Its report added: "HET also concluded that by not obtaining the soldier's (sic) account of what happened more vigorously, the investigation was not as thorough or effective as it could have been."

It said interviewing soldiers A and B represented the only realistic lines of enquiry. HET requested interviews, but both declined - one after seeking legal advice.

The HET said: "They have both chosen not to engage and there are no grounds to arrest and further interview them under caution. There are therefore no new lines of enquiry to progress the investigation into John Pat's death."

The Team said his death was a tragedy which should not have happened.

"He was a vulnerable adult who was unarmed and shot as he was running away from soldiers. There is no evidence that he posed a threat to the soldiers or anyone else."

It said the soldiers' decision not to cooperate meant the full facts had never been established.

Andrew Robathan, minister for the armed forces, said it was right and proper to make an apology on behalf of Government.

"I do not believe that anything I can say will ease the sorrow you feel for the death of a much-loved relative, but I hope that the findings of the HET and our full and sincere apology will be of value by setting the record straight on these tragic events," he told relatives.

Mr Agnew said the soldiers had never been compelled to account for themselves.

"He was a completely innocent man who did not deserve to die," he said.

"In our opinion those who murdered him disgraced themselves, their uniform and the state in whose name they bear arms."

Family solicitor Kevin Winters has written to Attorney General John Larkin QC asking for a fresh inquiry, has sought a new compensation settlement after £750 was granted originally, and asked PSNI chief constable Matt Baggott to make the soldiers accountable.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on March 19, 2013, 08:17:42 PM
They're getting good at issuing apologies.
Only a few hundred more to go......
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: give her dixie on March 20, 2013, 12:06:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2013, 08:17:42 PM
They're getting good at issuing apologies.
Only a few hundred more to go......

And in the case of Iraq, a few hundred thousand, seeing as it's 10 years ago today that the British Army joined the US in an illegal invasion of Iraq.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on March 20, 2013, 01:44:36 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 20, 2013, 12:06:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2013, 08:17:42 PM
They're getting good at issuing apologies.
Only a few hundred more to go......

And in the case of Iraq, a few hundred thousand, seeing as it's 10 years ago today that the British Army joined the US in an illegal invasion of Iraq.

You beat me to it, Dixie.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: give her dixie on March 20, 2013, 05:00:32 AM
The Last Letter

A Message to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney From a Dying Veteran


To: George W. Bush and Dick Cheney

From: Tomas Young

I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.

I write this letter on behalf of husbands and wives who have lost spouses, on behalf of children who have lost a parent, on behalf of the fathers and mothers who have lost sons and daughters and on behalf of those who care for the many thousands of my fellow veterans who have brain injuries. I write this letter on behalf of those veterans whose trauma and self-revulsion for what they have witnessed, endured and done in Iraq have led to suicide and on behalf of the active-duty soldiers and Marines who commit, on average, a suicide a day. I write this letter on behalf of the some 1 million Iraqi dead and on behalf of the countless Iraqi wounded. I write this letter on behalf of us all—the human detritus your war has left behind, those who will spend their lives in unending pain and grief.

You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in Iraq after you, Mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in Vietnam, and you, Mr. Bush, went AWOL from your National Guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage.

I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the Army to go to Iraq, a country that had no part in the September 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. I did not join the Army to "liberate" Iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called "democracy" in Baghdad and the Middle East. I did not join the Army to rebuild Iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by Iraq's oil revenues. Instead, this war has cost the United States over $3 trillion. I especially did not join the Army to carry out pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is illegal under international law. And as a soldier in Iraq I was, I now know, abetting your idiocy and your crimes. The Iraq War is the largest strategic blunder in U.S. history. It obliterated the balance of power in the Middle East. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-Iranian government in Baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left Iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level—moral, strategic, military and economic—Iraq was a failure. And it was you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, who started this war. It is you who should pay the consequences.

I would not be writing this letter if I had been wounded fighting in Afghanistan against those forces that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Had I been wounded there I would still be miserable because of my physical deterioration and imminent death, but I would at least have the comfort of knowing that my injuries were a consequence of my own decision to defend the country I love. I would not have to lie in my bed, my body filled with painkillers, my life ebbing away, and deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of human beings, including children, including myself, were sacrificed by you for little more than the greed of oil companies, for your alliance with the oil sheiks in Saudi Arabia, and your insane visions of empire.

I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician. We were used. We were betrayed. And we have been abandoned. You, Mr. Bush, make much pretense of being a Christian. But isn't lying a sin? Isn't murder a sin? Aren't theft and selfish ambition sins? I am not a Christian. But I believe in the Christian ideal. I believe that what you do to the least of your brothers you finally do to yourself, to your own soul.

My day of reckoning is upon me. Yours will come. I hope you will be put on trial. But mostly I hope, for your sakes, that you find the moral courage to face what you have done to me and to many, many others who deserved to live. I hope that before your time on earth ends, as mine is now ending, you will find the strength of character to stand before the American public and the world, and in particular the Iraqi people, and beg for forgiveness.

http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/the_last_letter_20130318/
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Aaron Boone on October 31, 2013, 10:44:19 PM
Watched BBC News at 10 there. Every reporter had the poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2013, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on October 31, 2013, 10:44:19 PM
Watched BBC News at 10 there. Every reporter had the poppy.

Were you expecting them to be wearing daffodils?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Worker on October 31, 2013, 10:57:52 PM
Why do they wear poppies in October?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 31, 2013, 11:00:40 PM
Is it earlier or later this year?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2013, 11:00:57 PM
Quote from: The Worker on October 31, 2013, 10:57:52 PM
Why do they wear poppies in October?

Who really gives a fcuk? seriously this thread is stupid. Just over half will wear one and the other half won't



MOVE ON, NOTHING TO SEE HERE
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2013, 11:04:59 PM
QuoteJust over half will wear one and the other half won't

The problem is that TV stations and the like will associate themselves with the first half even though their revenue comes from both.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2013, 11:09:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2013, 11:04:59 PM
QuoteJust over half will wear one and the other half won't

The problem is that TV stations and the like will associate themselves with the first half even though their revenue comes from both.

Don't pay your TV licence sure for 3 weeks or don't watch the news or X Factor or any of those type of shows.

Why people get worked up over this is beyond me, the price of fuel, oil, groceries and the price of a pint are more worrying I'd say that someone wearing a red flower on their shirts/coats
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 31, 2013, 11:11:10 PM
Seen a knitted one today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2013, 11:21:02 PM

QuoteWhy people get worked up over this is beyond me, the price of fuel, oil, groceries and the price of a pint are more worrying I'd say that someone wearing a red flower on their shirts/coats

The price of fuel, oil and so on with the same whether or not people are coat trailing on the TV. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2013, 12:15:07 AM
Why do they need to wear them for more than the actual day, whenever that is. Begining to see them in England now. Always found them ugly yokes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Worker on November 01, 2013, 06:25:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2013, 11:00:57 PM
Quote from: The Worker on October 31, 2013, 10:57:52 PM
Why do they wear poppies in October?

Who really gives a fcuk? seriously this thread is stupid. Just over half will wear one and the other half




You don't see Christmas trees up in October.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Never beat the deeler on November 01, 2013, 07:02:40 AM
Quote from: The Worker on November 01, 2013, 06:25:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2013, 11:00:57 PM
Quote from: The Worker on October 31, 2013, 10:57:52 PM
Why do they wear poppies in October?

Who really gives a fcuk? seriously this thread is stupid. Just over half will wear one and the other half




You don't see Christmas trees up in October.

Sorry, but you do. I flew from Dublin airport on 18th October, and there was a large Christmas tree in the Departures area, just after you go through security
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 01, 2013, 07:24:49 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2013, 12:15:07 AM
Why do they need to wear them for more than the actual day, whenever that is. Begining to see them in England now. Always found them ugly yokes.
w.

You would not have expected that
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 01, 2013, 07:30:53 AM
Not this thread again  :-\
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 01, 2013, 11:26:22 AM
I noticed yer woman Begley didn't wear one on Nolan the other night. Fair play.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: naka on November 01, 2013, 01:35:44 PM
went with a few mates to ypres a month ago
whatever your view a lot of young guys died
was brought to where the irish 6th charged and were killed
went to where  willy Redmond was buried( john redmonds brother) his family refused consent for him to be buried in a commonwealth grave

don't have an issue with poppies
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 01, 2013, 02:24:29 PM
Mark Sidebottom wasn't wearing one on Wednesday, but Stephen OWC Watson had a nice sparkly broach version...no oul paper one there. I've no real issue with the poppy except where people use it to make a political statement. Funny to see the two Spaniards on Revista La Liga wearing them though.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2013, 03:46:22 PM
If you are bothered by a particular group wearing something, naming something, flying something etc in memory of someone who died fighting someone else. Then fair enough. 

But when those people point at you wearing something, naming something, flying something in memory of someone else who died fighting someone, and call you a hypocrite, then they have a point. But of course they are then hypocrites themselves.

However name calling is one thing, bringing Belfast and elsewhere to a standstill while having disorderly marches followed by days of rioting is a different thing altogether.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Aristo 60 on November 01, 2013, 04:37:57 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24775782

No one was watching these poppies...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 01, 2013, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2013, 11:00:57 PM
Quote from: The Worker on October 31, 2013, 10:57:52 PM
Why do they wear poppies in October?

Who really gives a fcuk? seriously this thread is stupid. Just over half will wear one and the other half won't



MOVE ON, NOTHING TO SEE HERE

Yeah, but the problem is, the half who wear them also question why the half who don't wear them aren't wearing them, and you don't seem to get too annoyed about that. There's also the fact that almost anyone appearing on British TV around this time of year are basically forced to wear them whether they want to or not, which is pretty ironic as that's a form of fascism, which the great poppy champions tell us is what these brave British warriors fought against, which is even more ironic as the British behaved like complete fascists in large parts of their empire ... besides, if you don't give a fcuk, why are you even engaging in the thread?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2013, 05:33:28 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 01, 2013, 07:24:49 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2013, 12:15:07 AM
Why do they need to wear them for more than the actual day, whenever that is. Begining to see them in England now. Always found them ugly yokes.
w.

You would not have expected that

Huh! What ya mean by that?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: qubdub on November 01, 2013, 06:06:48 PM
I suppose it comes down to bbc policy and whether they force employees to wear them, or act favourably towards those that do. It's like that oul Londonderry shite, I listened to radio ulster every morning/evening this week, londonderry everytime. I don't mind if that's that individual's preference but I just get the impression that they aren't being given the choice to use it's proper name. It's the same with the poppy. It's as if the employees aren't given a choice, and if they are that they feel obliged to wear it even if they don't want to. Which frankly is a pile of shite.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 01, 2013, 06:18:23 PM
If they are made to wear them surely that goes against the very thing that those who fought in the wars were fighting for - freedom of choice
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 01, 2013, 06:34:23 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 01, 2013, 06:18:23 PM
If they are made to wear them surely that goes against the very thing that those who fought in the wars were fighting for - freedom of choice

Those who fought in the war included people who had no choice. If they fought for freedom of choice in WWI then they must have been pissed off when it was re-introduced in 1939.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_Kingdom)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 01, 2013, 07:36:33 PM
Good point
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 01, 2013, 08:38:30 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2013, 05:33:28 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 01, 2013, 07:24:49 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2013, 12:15:07 AM
Why do they need to wear them for more than the actual day, whenever that is. Begining to see them in England now. Always found them ugly yokes.
w.

You would not have expected that

Huh! What ya mean by that?

English people wearing poppies? surly not!!!
Quote from: qubdub on November 01, 2013, 06:06:48 PM
I suppose it comes down to bbc policy and whether they force employees to wear them, or act favourably towards those that do. It's like that oul Londonderry shite, I listened to radio ulster every morning/evening this week, londonderry everytime. I don't mind if that's that individual's preference but I just get the impression that they aren't being given the choice to use it's proper name. It's the same with the poppy. It's as if the employees aren't given a choice, and if they are that they feel obliged to wear it even if they don't want to. Which frankly is a pile of shite.

The new vogue is Derry/Londonderry.....................................

now the trick is when saying Derry/Londonderry is as follows:

1. There are 3 syllables; Derry=1, Londonderry=2
2. It has to be said in the space 0.3 seconds. If not done within this time scale then they know you really don't believe in it.
3. This phase will be welcomed in all parts of Ireland, yes all parts.
4. Try and get the phrase, Derry/Londonderry in as many times into a conversation.
5. Use as often as possible in Nationalist areas so it will soon be accepted by everyone.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2013, 10:02:37 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 01, 2013, 08:38:30 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2013, 05:33:28 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 01, 2013, 07:24:49 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 01, 2013, 12:15:07 AM
Why do they need to wear them for more than the actual day, whenever that is. Begining to see them in England now. Always found them ugly yokes.
w.

You would not have expected that

Huh! What ya mean by that?

English people wearing poppies? surly not!!!
Quote from: qubdub on November 01, 2013, 06:06:48 PM
I suppose it comes down to bbc policy and whether they force employees to wear them, or act favourably towards those that do. It's like that oul Londonderry shite, I listened to radio ulster every morning/evening this week, londonderry everytime. I don't mind if that's that individual's preference but I just get the impression that they aren't being given the choice to use it's proper name. It's the same with the poppy. It's as if the employees aren't given a choice, and if they are that they feel obliged to wear it even if they don't want to. Which frankly is a pile of shite.

The new vogue is Derry/Londonderry.....................................

now the trick is when saying Derry/Londonderry is as follows:

1. There are 3 syllables; Derry=1, Londonderry=2
2. It has to be said in the space 0.3 seconds. If not done within this time scale then they know you really don't believe in it.
3. This phase will be welcomed in all parts of Ireland, yes all parts.
4. Try and get the phrase, Derry/Londonderry in as many times into a conversation.
5. Use as often as possible in Nationalist areas so it will soon be accepted by everyone.

I meant now as in something like a fortnight early, maybe earlier.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Syferus on November 02, 2013, 12:55:31 AM
There's a poppy growing in the gravel in front of t'house.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 02, 2013, 09:55:47 AM
5th columnists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 02, 2013, 09:57:54 AM
Quote from: qubdub on November 01, 2013, 06:06:48 PM
It's like that oul Londonderry shite, I listened to radio ulster every morning/evening this week, londonderry everytime. I don't mind if that's that individual's preference but I just get the impression that they aren't being given the choice to use it's proper name.

QuoteThe BBC's policy is to refer it as Londonderry the first time it is mentioned and Derry the second. This is not an iron rule, since it is affected by the context. If they were interviewing, for example, a Catholic athlete or performer who hailed from the city, they might out of courtesy describe his home town as Derry, since that would be how he would know it
http://www.cooperationireland.org/files/StyleProtocolGuide.pdf#page=7
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: qubdub on November 02, 2013, 10:25:24 AM
Ok so the context was Greysteel, it was Londonderry EVERY time.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 02, 2013, 09:55:47 AM
5th columnists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300
Hope they're proud of themselves but sure what would ya expect from Soccer types  >:(
I see UTV news yesterday was a poppy free zone for all the presenters.
Well done.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: qubdub on November 02, 2013, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 02, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 02, 2013, 09:55:47 AM
5th columnists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300
Hope they're proud of themselves but sure what would ya expect from Soccer types  >:(
I see UTV news yesterday was a poppy free zone for all the presenters.
Well done.
??
Are you saying they should cause a row on English television over having to wear a poppy?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2013, 01:32:39 PM
They could have said leave us off ye're shows till this forced commemotration of Black n Tans, Paras, etc etc is over.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 02, 2013, 02:11:38 PM
see them on sale at our reception in at work, doesn't really bother me, some will wear them at work, must don't, i dont see how its going to offend me. yes some probably wear a poppy who never had any relation service in the armed forces and i would find that strange, its nearly more look at me am a unionist. the royal british legion when they came up with the poppy was to fund retired solders who were struggling. the war dead was based on 2 world wars nothing else, it has been hijacked in recent years with iraq  war trying to gain support for a war that never should have happened. in Northern ireland too many pricks with no allegiance to the army just wear them to shit stir and try to offend Catholics. More Irishmen died in WW1 than them royal sons of ulster, we tend to forget that at times.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 02, 2013, 02:32:04 PM
Quote from: qubdub on November 02, 2013, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 02, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 02, 2013, 09:55:47 AM
5th columnists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300
Hope they're proud of themselves but sure what would ya expect from Soccer types  >:(
I see UTV news yesterday was a poppy free zone for all the presenters.
Well done.
??
Are you saying they should cause a row on English television over having to wear a poppy?
James McClean was prepared to do it
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: qubdub on November 02, 2013, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 02, 2013, 02:32:04 PM
Quote from: qubdub on November 02, 2013, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 02, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 02, 2013, 09:55:47 AM
5th columnists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300
Hope they're proud of themselves but sure what would ya expect from Soccer types  >:(
I see UTV news yesterday was a poppy free zone for all the presenters.
Well done.
??
Are you saying they should cause a row on English television over having to wear a poppy?
James McClean was prepared to do it
McClean young fella from the Creggan, Derry city, can understand why he didn't wear it.

MON and Keane have been living, playing/working in England for decades. They probably just see it as a silly tradition that they are happy to run along with, I'm sure privately neither could give two shites about remembering British war dead.

It's in NI where it gets more controversial imo, when the likes of the BBC force people to wear it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2013, 03:01:14 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 02, 2013, 02:11:38 PM
see them on sale at our reception in at work, doesn't really bother me, some will wear them at work, must don't, i dont see how its going to offend me. yes some probably wear a poppy who never had any relation service in the armed forces and i would find that strange, its nearly more look at me am a unionist. the royal british legion when they came up with the poppy was to fund retired solders who were struggling. the war dead was based on 2 world wars nothing else, it has been hijacked in recent years with iraq  war trying to gain support for a war that never should have happened. in Northern ireland too many pricks with no allegiance to the army just wear them to shit stir and try to offend Catholics. More Irishmen died in WW1 than them royal sons of ulster, we tend to forget that at times.

Thats exactly how I see it too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: From the Bunker on November 02, 2013, 08:07:27 PM
(http://cdn1.independent.ie/incoming/article29721454.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/131189274.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 02, 2013, 08:14:45 PM
I see your................





Quote from: From the Bunker on November 02, 2013, 08:07:27 PM
(http://cdn1.independent.ie/incoming/article29721454.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/131189274.jpg)



And raise you a...........................................







(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57133000/jpg/_57133747_000530177-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 02, 2013, 09:40:09 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 02, 2013, 02:11:38 PM
see them on sale at our reception in at work, doesn't really bother me, some will wear them at work, must don't, i dont see how its going to offend me. yes some probably wear a poppy who never had any relation service in the armed forces and i would find that strange, its nearly more look at me am a unionist. the royal british legion when they came up with the poppy was to fund retired solders who were struggling. the war dead was based on 2 world wars nothing else, it has been hijacked in recent years with iraq  war trying to gain support for a war that never should have happened. in Northern ireland too many pricks with no allegiance to the army just wear them to shit stir and try to offend Catholics. More Irishmen died in WW1 than them royal sons of ulster, we tend to forget that at times.
I like the way you speak with such authority about people from the unionist community, or pricks as you like to refer to them, wearing poppies to offend catholics.  As someone brought up in the unionist community, I remember attending Remembrance Services at church and school, which were solumn, respectful ceremonies.  The emphasis was on remembering the war dead, whichever community they came from. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 02, 2013, 09:57:22 PM
Michael go onto any Pul website and it all for wearing the poppy to annoy the other side, not for remembering the war dead, if you read earlier i said some some people wear the poppy for the right reasons but too many wear it and dont even understand how it came about. Comments of "if you dont like our poppy, then f**k off out of our country "is a common theme on the site,
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 02, 2013, 10:10:39 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 02, 2013, 08:14:45 PM
I see your................





Quote from: From the Bunker on November 02, 2013, 08:07:27 PM
(http://cdn1.independent.ie/incoming/article29721454.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/131189274.jpg)



And raise you a...........................................







(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57133000/jpg/_57133747_000530177-1.jpg)

Accepting an honour from any Monarchy or Dictatorship is a serious no no IMO.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lawnseed on November 02, 2013, 10:15:15 PM
When in england I take mike rutherfords advice "swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 02, 2013, 10:15:27 PM
Dara O'Brien is my favourite Irish celebrity over here. He always ensures he distances himself from being any connection to the UK and ensures there is no grey area over his national identity. He makes a point of say you or over here to perserve the sense of seperateness.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 02, 2013, 10:16:10 PM
Martin took the money and ran. But Keane is a bollix.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 02, 2013, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 02, 2013, 10:15:15 PM
When in england I take mike rutherfords advice "swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer"

Mayo says NO.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lawnseed on November 02, 2013, 10:28:28 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 02, 2013, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 02, 2013, 10:15:15 PM
When in england I take mike rutherfords advice "swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer"

Mayo says NO.
Dont byte the hand that feeds you :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2013, 10:53:20 PM
Great column in today's Irish News from Patrick Murphy regarding the poppy. Well worth a read.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 02, 2013, 11:15:05 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 02, 2013, 10:28:28 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 02, 2013, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 02, 2013, 10:15:15 PM
When in england I take mike rutherfords advice "swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer"

Mayo says NO.
Dont byte the hand that feeds you :D

I contribute far more than I take over here. They need my skills set.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 03, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o

Partitionist ballix
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Syferus on November 03, 2013, 04:38:58 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o

Partitionist ballix

The only thing MayoGod will be partitioning is your face.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 03, 2013, 05:17:53 PM
I don't see how this will work, Keane will eventually drive a wedge between himself and the players and him and the manager, he cannot help himself, I hope I am wrong but somewhere down the line this will become about Roy.

O'Neill has made a mistake here I think, I hope I am wrong but for me Roy will have a hard time in the number two seat, just my two cents worth.

I hope O'Neill is strong enough to handle him, I doubt it, I also hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 03, 2013, 06:06:29 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

Keep up Tone FFS.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2013, 06:30:29 PM
I think Northern Catholics should all each wear two Poppies.

A few years of that would sort it out.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 03, 2013, 08:03:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2013, 06:30:29 PM
I think Northern Catholics should all each wear two Poppies.

A few years of that would sort it out.

Yeah that'd do it!  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: SHEEDY on November 03, 2013, 08:57:46 PM
while watching x-factor (I know, I know) my 8year old daughter asks 'are they all protestants?'. I ask 'why?'. she says 'cos they are all wearing poppys and that means they're protestant'. what do you say to that? :o
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 04, 2013, 10:24:54 AM
Whatever your views on the British Army and it's involvement with Ireland, you need to understand how ordinary British People feel about it...I'm not including NI Unionists here. Even in Scotland where they hate the English they have a proud connection with the Scottish Regiments. If as Irish people we are to move on we need to accept this. It is pathetic to hear people pontificate about the wearing of poppies on British TV if you don't like it then watch RTE. It is exactly that British TV. Different story with the local stations that needs to be about freedom of choice given divided loyalties.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 04, 2013, 10:35:15 AM
Quote from: stew on November 03, 2013, 08:03:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2013, 06:30:29 PM
I think Northern Catholics should all each wear two Poppies.

A few years of that would sort it out.

Yeah that'd do it!  ::)

Seriously, if Adams and McGuinness wore two poppies all the time Unionists would soon tire of the stupid thing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o

Partitionist ballix

Supporting a 26 county team would be some people's idea of "partitionist".
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 04, 2013, 12:56:48 PM
So, a soldier loses his legs in Iraq or somewhere, what help does he get? The British Legion I presume will help people like that, amending his home to suit him. So what does the government give him? I'd say given the recent benefit cuts he'd be forced off benefits, it'd be "back to work ya scrounger".

I think that's the reason the poppy thing is being pushed, so that the government gets to neglect it's servicemen, and let the BL look after them.

Having said that, there is no need for these illegal wars, and if someone takes the Queens shilling to fight in one of these wars, if they get blown up or maimed, I honestly can't have any sympathy for them. It was slightly different a century ago with conscription. I do have a certain amount of sympathy for those men dragged off to fight in, in particular, the great culling of 1914-18.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o




Partitionist ballix

Supporting a 26 county team would be some people's idea of "partitionist".

Some of the most anti-Republic ("Free State") you find are 6 county Irish nationalists who spend the whole time hating on the ROI and then suddenly want to claim the ROI soccer team as being theirs. Can't have it both ways lads.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 04, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o




Partitionist ballix

Supporting a 26 county team would be some people's idea of "partitionist".

Some of the most anti-Republic ("Free State") you find are 6 county Irish nationalists who spend the whole time hating on the ROI and then suddenly want to claim the ROI soccer team as being theirs. Can't have it both ways lads.

ROI Team is made up from people from the South and the North.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 04, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o




Partitionist ballix

Supporting a 26 county team would be some people's idea of "partitionist".

Some of the most anti-Republic ("Free State") you find are 6 county Irish nationalists who spend the whole time hating on the ROI and then suddenly want to claim the ROI soccer team as being theirs. Can't have it both ways lads.

ROI Team is made up from people from the South and the North.

It is the Republic of Ireland team not the Ireland team. Sure Scots and English have played for us, does it make it the Atlantic Archipelego team.

Do not confuse pedantic with partitionist.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 04, 2013, 03:02:06 PM
The Ireland/ROI/Free State team has been referred to as Ireland this last 15-20 years. You never hear the media, pundits, supporters refer to it as the ROI. And if you look at the top of the screen on matchdays, it'll say IRL, not ROI.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 04, 2013, 03:03:23 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 04, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o




Partitionist ballix

Supporting a 26 county team would be some people's idea of "partitionist".

Some of the most anti-Republic ("Free State") you find are 6 county Irish nationalists who spend the whole time hating on the ROI and then suddenly want to claim the ROI soccer team as being theirs. Can't have it both ways lads.

ROI Team is made up from people from the South and the North.

It is the Republic of Ireland team not the Ireland team. Sure Scots and English have played for us, does it make it the Atlantic Archipelego team.

Do not confuse pedantic with partitionist.

I'm not asking you to rename the team. Merely pointing out that you can support a team with local representatives, while still maintaining a dislike of the country itself.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 03:20:37 PM
While MGHU is clearly trolling, I do find the idea of Irish republicans supporting a 26 county team. Regardless of where the players hail from (some from further than Derry), the team represents the FAI - the governing body in the 26 counties, not the island of Ireland.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: winghalfun on November 04, 2013, 03:37:40 PM
QuoteAs someone brought up in the unionist community, I remember attending Remembrance Services at church and school, which were solemn, respectful ceremonies.  The emphasis was on remembering the war dead, whichever community they came from

Michaelg, I am quite sure that the services were indeed solemn and respectful but it still does not hide the fact that although Northern Catholics had enlisted during the war just as often as Protestants, they were excluded from any war commemorations as it became an almost exclusively Unionist event.

It is an historical fact that all nationalist names were intentionally left off the numerous plaques and cenotaphs that honour the WW1 dead in Northern Ireland.

(I know the Republic Of Ireland neglected the memory of these men too but that is a separate debate)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 04, 2013, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 04, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o




Partitionist ballix

Supporting a 26 county team would be some people's idea of "partitionist".

Some of the most anti-Republic ("Free State") you find are 6 county Irish nationalists who spend the whole time hating on the ROI and then suddenly want to claim the ROI soccer team as being theirs. Can't have it both ways lads.

ROI Team is made up from people from the South and the North.

It is the Republic of Ireland team not the Ireland team. Sure Scots and English have played for us, does it make it the Atlantic Archipelego team.

Do not confuse pedantic with partitionist.

The constitution of the state refers to all those on the island as being recognised as citizens. The badge on the jersey says Ireland. I didn't 'suddenly want to claim the ROI team as mine', I've supported the team all my life, and have been going to matches home and away for 30 years. Just because you live in the 26 counties doesn't make you any more (or less) Irish than I or anybody else in the six counties.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2013, 09:40:09 PM
I like the way you speak with such authority about people from the unionist community, or pricks as you like to refer to them, wearing poppies to offend catholics.  As someone brought up in the unionist community, I remember attending Remembrance Services at church and school, which were solumn, respectful ceremonies.  The emphasis was on remembering the war dead, whichever community they came from.

I'm not suggesting that the following is what you're implying, but this is something that is trotted out frequently by the Unionist community in the north and UK:


The logic is daft.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 04, 2013, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2013, 09:40:09 PM
I like the way you speak with such authority about people from the unionist community, or pricks as you like to refer to them, wearing poppies to offend catholics.  As someone brought up in the unionist community, I remember attending Remembrance Services at church and school, which were solumn, respectful ceremonies.  The emphasis was on remembering the war dead, whichever community they came from.

I'm not suggesting that the following is what you're implying, but this is something that is trotted out frequently by the Unionist community in the north and UK:


  • Irish Catholics and nationalists died in wars fighting for the British Army

  • Remembrance Day and the Poppy Appeal honours them just as much as anyone from the other side of the fence

  • Because of this, no catholic or nationalist should have any reason to feel uncomfortable with poppies

The logic is daft.

I don't feel uncomfortable with the poppy. Its what it represents. It has been taken over and used to drum up support for illegal wars going on around the planet. This malarky that "our troops do such a great job keeping us free from lunatics"... "Our brave soldiers fighting for our freedom" etc. A half dozen british soldiers come back in a box, and its a terrible tragedy. What about the tens of thousands that they have slaughtered in Iraq/Afghanistan alone?

If the poppy was just to remember the men who died in the 2 WW's, fair enough. But its not. Poppies should be given free to people who wish to wear them as a mark of respect for the two WW/s... but the fact that people have to pay money for a poppy, they are still supporting these ongoing illegal wars, whether they think so or not.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: winsamsoon on November 04, 2013, 06:11:30 PM
Also the poppy became politicized in the North when people were forced to wear them in workplaces and bullied into wearing them. If people want to remember the war dead then that is their right to do so. Anyone who doesn't want to participate also has that right. Watching the television everyone is wearing poppies, i saw that x-factor the other night and they were all wearing poppies and i guarantee 90% of them couldn't tell you that two world wars occured. So by all means remember the dead but don't use it as a symbol to get one over the ideological enemy or bully people ito wearing them which is what has occured in the north. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 04, 2013, 06:44:49 PM
It has just become another commercial exercise like Christmas, Easter and Halloween, as far as I can see. There are the poppies sold on behalf of the British Legion, fair enough, but look at all the different varieties been worn now at this time of year ... there is no way the money from them is going to the British Legion.

And who could forget this farce last year... even the warmongers at the MoD were embarrassed by it.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-remembrance-day-parade-branded-1558062
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:04:20 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 03:20:37 PM
While MGHU is clearly trolling, I do find the idea of Irish republicans supporting a 26 county team. Regardless of where the players hail from (some from further than Derry), the team represents the FAI - the governing body in the 26 counties, not the island of Ireland.

I'm not trolling, I am a pedant.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:07:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 04, 2013, 03:02:06 PM
The Ireland/ROI/Free State team has been referred to as Ireland this last 15-20 years. You never hear the media, pundits, supporters refer to it as the ROI. And if you look at the top of the screen on matchdays, it'll say IRL, not ROI.

Ireland is the official name of the state that uses the descriptive "Republic of Ireland"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2013, 12:11:17 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:07:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 04, 2013, 03:02:06 PM
The Ireland/ROI/Free State team has been referred to as Ireland this last 15-20 years. You never hear the media, pundits, supporters refer to it as the ROI. And if you look at the top of the screen on matchdays, it'll say IRL, not ROI.

Ireland is the official name of the state that uses the descriptive "Republic of Ireland"

Ireland suggests the island of Ireland. North and South.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?

Those that normally otherwise hate on the Republic no, those that show it respect and recognises it's legitimate and official status yes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 05, 2013, 08:21:29 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 04, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 04, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 03, 2013, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 03, 2013, 12:14:23 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24770300

Meet our new management team! >:(

"Our"  :o




Partitionist ballix

Supporting a 26 county team would be some people's idea of "partitionist".

Some of the most anti-Republic ("Free State") you find are 6 county Irish nationalists who spend the whole time hating on the ROI and then suddenly want to claim the ROI soccer team as being theirs. Can't have it both ways lads.

ROI Team is made up from people from the South and the North.

It is the Republic of Ireland team not the Ireland team. Sure Scots and English have played for us, does it make it the Atlantic Archipelego team.

Do not confuse pedantic with partitionist.

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:07:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 04, 2013, 03:02:06 PM
The Ireland/ROI/Free State team has been referred to as Ireland this last 15-20 years. You never hear the media, pundits, supporters refer to it as the ROI. And if you look at the top of the screen on matchdays, it'll say IRL, not ROI.

Ireland is the official name of the state that uses the descriptive "Republic of Ireland"

Your not much of a Pedant  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?

Those that normally otherwise hate on the Republic no, those that show it respect and recognises it's legitimate and official status yes.
Most Northern Nationalist's have no problem recoginising that part of our country that has achieved freedom, or it's status. They see it as their spirtual home so to speak. In terms of Soccer it is the team that represents their Irish Nationality and Identity. No Loyalist Ulster Flag or Union Flag or GSTQ. Even if NI was to become a totally neutral Soccer Tem most nationalist would not support them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?

Those that normally otherwise hate on the Republic no, those that show it respect and recognises it's legitimate and official status yes.
Most Northern Nationalist's have no problem recoginising that part of our country that has achieved freedom, or it's status. They see it as their spirtual home so to speak. In terms of Soccer it is the team that represents their Irish Nationality and Identity. No Loyalist Ulster Flag or Union Flag or GSTQ. Even if NI was to become a totally neutral Soccer Tem most nationalist would not support them.

Says who?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 12:24:26 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?

Those that normally otherwise hate on the Republic no, those that show it respect and recognises it's legitimate and official status yes.
Most Northern Nationalist's have no problem recoginising that part of our country that has achieved freedom, or it's status. They see it as their spirtual home so to speak. In terms of Soccer it is the team that represents their Irish Nationality and Identity. No Loyalist Ulster Flag or Union Flag or GSTQ. Even if NI was to become a totally neutral Soccer Tem most nationalist would not support them.

Says who?
Says me and a whole lot more...you obviously are not in that category.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 05, 2013, 01:14:25 PM
On a slightly related note.  Wendy Austin on Radio Ulster's Talkback programme discussing the O'Neill/Keane appointment.  "Will an Ulsterman be accepted as manager of RoI?" ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 05, 2013, 01:18:23 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 05, 2013, 01:14:25 PM
On a slightly related note.  Wendy Austin on Radio Ulster's Talkback programme discussing the O'Neill/Keane appointment.  "Will an Ulsterman be accepted as manager of RoI?" ::)

Jebus, who is she?

Ulstermen & women have been in Áras an Úachtarán, Presidents of the GAA, managed the Irish Gaa squad and managed the Irish Rugby team.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 05, 2013, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2013, 01:18:23 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 05, 2013, 01:14:25 PM
On a slightly related note.  Wendy Austin on Radio Ulster's Talkback programme discussing the O'Neill/Keane appointment.  "Will an Ulsterman be accepted as manager of RoI?" ::)

Jebus, who is she?

Ulstermen & women have been in Áras an Úachtarán, Presidents of the GAA, managed the Irish Gaa squad and managed the Irish Rugby team.

To be fair I should do what I ask everyone else to do and set these things in context, she went through a list of rhetorical questions e.g. "Will RK accept being a number 2", "can MON turn round the fortunes of the team" but she did include the above.  Sounded unscripted to me but nonetheless...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 05, 2013, 02:21:57 PM
I thought you had to be a Protestant Unionist to qualify for the title "Ulsterman"  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 12:24:26 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?

Those that normally otherwise hate on the Republic no, those that show it respect and recognises it's legitimate and official status yes.
Most Northern Nationalist's have no problem recoginising that part of our country that has achieved freedom, or it's status. They see it as their spirtual home so to speak. In terms of Soccer it is the team that represents their Irish Nationality and Identity. No Loyalist Ulster Flag or Union Flag or GSTQ. Even if NI was to become a totally neutral Soccer Tem most nationalist would not support them.

Says who?
Says me and a whole lot more...you obviously are not in that category.

Absolutely daft logic those people apply then.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2013, 03:54:12 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 03:37:38 PM
Absolutely daft logic those people apply then.

You may not agree with it, but why is it illogical?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 05, 2013, 03:57:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?

Those that normally otherwise hate on the Republic no, those that show it respect and recognises it's legitimate and official status yes.
Most Northern Nationalist's have no problem recoginising that part of our country that has achieved freedom, or it's status. They see it as their spirtual home so to speak. In terms of Soccer it is the team that represents their Irish Nationality and Identity best. No Loyalist Ulster Flag or Union Flag or GSTQ. Even if NI was to become a totally neutral Soccer Tem most nationalist would not support them.

I would say exactly that with the addition of the bit in bold.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 12:24:26 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?

Those that normally otherwise hate on the Republic no, those that show it respect and recognises it's legitimate and official status yes.
Most Northern Nationalist's have no problem recoginising that part of our country that has achieved freedom, or it's status. They see it as their spirtual home so to speak. In terms of Soccer it is the team that represents their Irish Nationality and Identity. No Loyalist Ulster Flag or Union Flag or GSTQ. Even if NI was to become a totally neutral Soccer Tem most nationalist would not support them.

Says who?
Says me and a whole lot more...you obviously are not in that category.

Absolutely daft logic those people apply then.
I can't see why it's daft are you saying that most or all nationalists do not view the Irish Soccer team in this way? Those who follow soccer anyway or are you saying that OWC represents their national identity?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 05, 2013, 04:02:24 PM
Guy Fawkes RIP
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 05, 2013, 04:20:40 PM
A true defender of human rights.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 04:26:30 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 12:24:26 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?

Those that normally otherwise hate on the Republic no, those that show it respect and recognises it's legitimate and official status yes.
Most Northern Nationalist's have no problem recoginising that part of our country that has achieved freedom, or it's status. They see it as their spirtual home so to speak. In terms of Soccer it is the team that represents their Irish Nationality and Identity. No Loyalist Ulster Flag or Union Flag or GSTQ. Even if NI was to become a totally neutral Soccer Tem most nationalist would not support them.

Says who?
Says me and a whole lot more...you obviously are not in that category.

Absolutely daft logic those people apply then.
I can't see why it's daft are you saying that most or all nationalists do not view the Irish Soccer team in this way? Those who follow soccer anyway or are you saying that OWC represents their national identity?

Where did you pluck that from? I said nothing of the sort and didn't even come close to mentioning the team representing the IFA. Perhaps you're falling into the trap of assuming it's one or the other, when it can also be neither.

I couldn't possibly quantify the number or % of nationalists (from the North) who view the Irish soccer team that way - I neither know nor care. What I think is daft is that people who wish for a 32 county Irish republic (many of whom will accuse others of being "partitionist") can endorse a team that does not represent the 32 counties. Let's not pretend "people from the North" play for Ireland is part of it either - players have come from much further afield so it's hardly an "embracing all-Ireland" approach.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2013, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 04:26:30 PM
What I think is daft is that people who wish for a 32 county Irish republic (many of whom will accuse others of being "partitionist") can endorse a team that does not represent the 32 counties. Let's not pretend "people from the North" play for Ireland is part of it either - players have come from much further afield so it's hardly an "embracing all-Ireland" approach.

So if you support the Republic of Ireland soccer team, you can't truly want a 32 county Irish republic?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 04:33:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 05, 2013, 04:02:24 PM
Guy Fawkes RIP

LOL

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2013, 04:35:39 PM
The title of the thread is 'Poppy Watch'
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 04:37:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2013, 04:35:39 PM
The title of the thread is 'Poppy Watch'

The hot boird in Eastenders!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 04:40:09 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2013, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 04:26:30 PM
What I think is daft is that people who wish for a 32 county Irish republic (many of whom will accuse others of being "partitionist") can endorse a team that does not represent the 32 counties. Let's not pretend "people from the North" play for Ireland is part of it either - players have come from much further afield so it's hardly an "embracing all-Ireland" approach.

So if you support the Republic of Ireland soccer team, you can't truly want a 32 county Irish republic?

I want a 34 county Ireland, time to take back the Isle of Man and Iona.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 04:55:44 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 04:26:30 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 12:24:26 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2013, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 05, 2013, 12:13:55 AM
So you're saying that you are happy enough that people from the 6 counties play for the team but not that they support the team?

Those that normally otherwise hate on the Republic no, those that show it respect and recognises it's legitimate and official status yes.
Most Northern Nationalist's have no problem recoginising that part of our country that has achieved freedom, or it's status. They see it as their spirtual home so to speak. In terms of Soccer it is the team that represents their Irish Nationality and Identity. No Loyalist Ulster Flag or Union Flag or GSTQ. Even if NI was to become a totally neutral Soccer Tem most nationalist would not support them.

Says who?
Says me and a whole lot more...you obviously are not in that category.

Absolutely daft logic those people apply then.
I can't see why it's daft are you saying that most or all nationalists do not view the Irish Soccer team in this way? Those who follow soccer anyway or are you saying that OWC represents their national identity?

Where did you pluck that from? I said nothing of the sort and didn't even come close to mentioning the team representing the IFA. Perhaps you're falling into the trap of assuming it's one or the other, when it can also be neither.

I couldn't possibly quantify the number or % of nationalists (from the North) who view the Irish soccer team that way - I neither know nor care. What I think is daft is that people who wish for a 32 county Irish republic (many of whom will accuse others of being "partitionist") can endorse a team that does not represent the 32 counties. Let's not pretend "people from the North" play for Ireland is part of it either - players have come from much further afield so it's hardly an "embracing all-Ireland" approach.
I think your logic is the flawed one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 05:12:14 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2013, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 04:26:30 PM
What I think is daft is that people who wish for a 32 county Irish republic (many of whom will accuse others of being "partitionist") can endorse a team that does not represent the 32 counties. Let's not pretend "people from the North" play for Ireland is part of it either - players have come from much further afield so it's hardly an "embracing all-Ireland" approach.

So if you support the Republic of Ireland soccer team, you can't truly want a 32 county Irish republic?

Put it like this - I find it easier to understand someone from Waterford supporting the Republic of Ireland soccer team as Waterford is covered by the FAI's jurisdiction than I do someone from a nationalist or repuclican background in Belfast. I do not accept that the ROI "better reflects their idea of nationality" or any such similar sentiments as, by definition, it doesn't.

And contrary to what other may try to infer, this is not the same as advocating anyone from a nationalist or republican background in the North supports the OWC team.

For once, George Best had the right idea. Unfortunately, it won't happen.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2013, 05:20:53 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 05:12:14 PM
Put it like this - I find it easier to understand someone from Waterford supporting the Republic of Ireland soccer team as Waterford is covered by the FAI's jurisdiction than I do someone from a nationalist or repuclican background in Belfast. I do not accept that the ROI "better reflects their idea of nationality" or any such similar sentiments as, by definition, it doesn't.

And contrary to what other may try to infer, this is not the same as advocating anyone from a nationalist or republican background in the North supports the OWC team.

For once, George Best had the right idea. Unfortunately, it won't happen.

That's all fair enough, but it's not the same thing as saying that someone from the North who can see a way to support the Republic can only do so by employing 'absolutely daft logic'.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 05, 2013, 05:32:18 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 04:40:09 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2013, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 04:26:30 PM
What I think is daft is that people who wish for a 32 county Irish republic (many of whom will accuse others of being "partitionist") can endorse a team that does not represent the 32 counties. Let's not pretend "people from the North" play for Ireland is part of it either - players have come from much further afield so it's hardly an "embracing all-Ireland" approach.

So if you support the Republic of Ireland soccer team, you can't truly want a 32 county Irish republic?

I want a 34 county Ireland, time to take back the Isle of Man and Iona.
I'd prefer a 31 County Ireland ( guess which one I want rid of  ;D)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 05, 2013, 07:30:59 PM
leave mayo along, surely u get rid of tyrone first lol, well with Derry City playing in the FAI league and a few Derry men playing with them, that's all i need to claim allegiance to the Irish team, sure its more than big Tony had!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 05, 2013, 08:11:13 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 05, 2013, 07:30:59 PM
leave mayo along, surely u get rid of tyrone first lol, well with Derry City playing in the FAI league and a few Derry men playing with them, that's all i need to claim allegiance to the Irish team, sure its more than big Tony had!!


Tony's connection was through Mayo.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: GAA_Talk on November 05, 2013, 08:23:48 PM
Seen one the size of a small satellite dish pinned to a lamp post on the A1 today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: andoireabu on November 05, 2013, 08:34:34 PM
(http://www.london24.com/polopoly_fs/arriva_poppy_bus_route_59_1_2937029!image/4147340637.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/4147340637.jpg)

Do they have these in Belfast yet?  Wrights might be able to throw one together in time!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 05, 2013, 08:36:26 PM
well  putting a big make up poppy on a lamp post says somehting about a percentage of the protestant community see it more as a shit stirring point than actual respect for war dead
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 05, 2013, 08:38:38 PM
G the DUP see that pic of the bus they be demanding a fleet of them for Belfast
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 06, 2013, 09:02:30 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 05:12:14 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2013, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 05, 2013, 04:26:30 PM
What I think is daft is that people who wish for a 32 county Irish republic (many of whom will accuse others of being "partitionist") can endorse a team that does not represent the 32 counties. Let's not pretend "people from the North" play for Ireland is part of it either - players have come from much further afield so it's hardly an "embracing all-Ireland" approach.

So if you support the Republic of Ireland soccer team, you can't truly want a 32 county Irish republic?

Put it like this - I find it easier to understand someone from Waterford supporting the Republic of Ireland soccer team as Waterford is covered by the FAI's jurisdiction than I do someone from a nationalist or repuclican background in Belfast. I do not accept that the ROI "better reflects their idea of nationality" or any such similar sentiments as, by definition, it doesn't.

And contrary to what other may try to infer, this is not the same as advocating anyone from a nationalist or republican background in the North supports the OWC team.

For once, George Best had the right idea. Unfortunately, it won't happen.
Most nationalist would prefer a single Irish team, but the sectarianism that is rife in soccer in the 6 counties makes that reality unlikely. The ROI team is not perfect but as a previous poster alluded to, for most its a best fit. The more Darren Gibsons, Marc Wilsons and James CCleans we get the better the fit. But if it doesn't suit you then so be it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 06, 2013, 09:04:32 AM
Mark Sidebottom still not wearing one last night, has BBC policy changed?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2013, 09:15:16 AM
I saw Malcolm bleedin' Rikfind not wearing one on the BBC last week. The pod people are losing control!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 06, 2013, 10:10:01 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 06, 2013, 09:15:16 AM
I saw Malcolm bleedin' Rikfind not wearing one on the BBC last week. The pod people are losing control!

As LAD might say....BBCIRA
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: nrico2006 on November 06, 2013, 10:23:25 AM
Were both Roy and Martin wearing them last night?  Anything to keep your employers happy. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 06, 2013, 10:28:33 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 06, 2013, 09:04:32 AM
Mark Sidebottom still not wearing one last night, has BBC policy changed?
Fair play to him.
I presume it's optional in the Nordie BBC and UTV.??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 06, 2013, 11:33:14 AM
Didn't Donna Traynor not get a lot of aggro for not wearing a poppy a few years ago on the BBC news?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 06, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 06, 2013, 10:23:25 AM
Were both Roy and Martin wearing them last night?  Anything to keep your employers happy.
i just popped into this debate to see what abuse poor old Martin and roy would be getting. rather suprised there is nothing on it. Id say both have lived in England that long its just a done thing. The north is a different story, have to say i noticed the poppy on the telegraph pole, cant see that as much of a mark of respect to the war dead.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Aristo 60 on November 06, 2013, 01:00:30 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 06, 2013, 10:23:25 AM
Were both Roy and Martin wearing them last night?  Anything to keep your employers happy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24819018

Yes they were  :-X
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rosnarun on November 06, 2013, 04:18:42 PM
What can you expect from a sport where the national team wear black armbands when a member of the english ruling family dies
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 06, 2013, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 06, 2013, 10:23:25 AM
Were both Roy and Martin wearing them last night?  Anything to keep your employers happy.

What you mean keep their employers happy???????

Martin O Neill i reckon he would have one on all year if he had the chance.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 06, 2013, 08:00:29 PM
Big Packie Bonner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 08, 2013, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?
Why should his post be about Flanders?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 09:05:19 AM
My wife was watching the daily Strictly Come Dancing show and she noticed that the contestants and dancers were wearing poppies while being interviewed but not while on the floor training. "Someone is pinning them on when they're on camera!", she exclaimed. Well, duh. Cue several minutes of muttering that it shouldn't be forced on anyone like that. I was astonished that she was astonished.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 08, 2013, 09:06:50 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?

Because the money raised goes towards those in this clip,do you really think there are still soldiers living who fought at Flanders. :oand if there are one or two how much does it take to support them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 09:25:31 AM
Going off on a tangent, my dad brought me up short this morning: "will your boy wear a poppy?" It's important to his mother. It means nothing to me. I'm sure we'll muddle on through when the time comes (it would look daft on his babygro), but has anyone here been presented with this dilemma in true Across the Barricades style? Maybe kids don't wear them?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 08, 2013, 09:45:43 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 09:25:31 AM
Going off on a tangent, my dad brought me up short this morning: "will your boy wear a poppy?" It's important to his mother. It means nothing to me. I'm sure we'll muddle on through when the time comes (it would look daft on his babygro), but has anyone here been presented with this dilemma in true Across the Barricades style? Maybe kids don't wear them?

Haha! Remember that one from school.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 09:50:03 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2013, 09:45:43 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 09:25:31 AM
Going off on a tangent, my dad brought me up short this morning: "will your boy wear a poppy?" It's important to his mother. It means nothing to me. I'm sure we'll muddle on through when the time comes (it would look daft on his babygro), but has anyone here been presented with this dilemma in true Across the Barricades style? Maybe kids don't wear them?

Haha! Remember that one from school.

Yeah, writing a story about teenagers in love from opposite camps is the literary equivalent of a Christmas song - all the childer will be made read it for 'the message'.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: EC Unique on November 08, 2013, 09:53:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?

Do you know what the poppy appeal is for?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 08, 2013, 09:55:50 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 09:50:03 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2013, 09:45:43 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 09:25:31 AM
Going off on a tangent, my dad brought me up short this morning: "will your boy wear a poppy?" It's important to his mother. It means nothing to me. I'm sure we'll muddle on through when the time comes (it would look daft on his babygro), but has anyone here been presented with this dilemma in true Across the Barricades style? Maybe kids don't wear them?

Haha! Remember that one from school.

Yeah, writing a story about teenagers in love from opposite camps is the literary equivalent of a Christmas song - all the childer will be made read it for 'the message'.

Personally, I preferred the Captain Planet visits Belfast episode. Much more appeal at the time with effectively the same message.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 10:01:24 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2013, 09:55:50 AM
Personally, I preferred the Captain Planet visits Belfast episode. Much more appeal at the time with effectively the same message.

*checks Google to see if something so preposterous can exist*

Jesus Christ, as any good Fenian Prod would say.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 08, 2013, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 10:01:24 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2013, 09:55:50 AM
Personally, I preferred the Captain Planet visits Belfast episode. Much more appeal at the time with effectively the same message.

*checks Google to see if something so preposterous can exist*

Jesus Christ, as any good Fenian Prod would say.

The Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles once visited Dublin Zoo as well!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 08, 2013, 10:55:20 AM
In my annual poppy watch in Enniskillen I would say the numbers worn this year are slightly up while still being a very low proportion of the general population.

I noticed Alex Kane and yer man McFadden (??) weren't wearing poppies on "The View" last night and Kane is from a unionist background, while Benjamin Zephaniah wore a white one on the BBC's Question Time.

When did the big green bit appear??  I remember from back in the day it was just red poppy with a black centre??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 10:58:36 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 08, 2013, 10:55:20 AM
When did the big green bit appear??  I remember from back in the day it was just red poppy with a black centre??

It's an English poppy? It seems the Scottish poppy still doesn't have the greenery.

(http://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/o/poppy-appeal-2013-pin-badge.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 11:12:35 AM
Great article on the Guardian's website today from a veteran who will no longer wear the poppy.

QuoteThis year, I will wear a poppy for the last time (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/08/poppy-last-time-remembrance-harry-leslie-smith)

I will remember friends and comrades in private next year, as the solemnity of remembrance has been twisted into a justification for conflict

Harry Leslie Smith
theguardian.com, Friday 8 November 2013 10.34 GMT

Over the last 10 years the sepia tone of November has become blood-soaked with paper poppies festooning the lapels of our politicians, newsreaders and business leaders. The most fortunate in our society have turned the solemnity of remembrance for fallen soldiers in ancient wars into a justification for our most recent armed conflicts. The American civil war's General Sherman once said that "war is hell", but unfortunately today's politicians in Britain use past wars to bolster our flagging belief in national austerity or to compel us to surrender our rights as citizens, in the name of the public good.

Still, this year I shall wear the poppy as I have done for many years. I wear it because I am from that last generation who remember a war that encompassed the entire world. I wear the poppy because I can recall when Britain was actually threatened with a real invasion and how its citizens stood at the ready to defend her shores. But most importantly, I wear the poppy to commemorate those of my childhood friends and comrades who did not survive the second world war and those who came home physically and emotionally wounded from horrific battles that no poet or journalist could describe.

However, I am afraid it will be the last time that I will bear witness to those soldiers, airmen and sailors who are no more, at my local cenotaph. From now on, I will lament their passing in private because my despair is for those who live in this present world. I will no longer allow my obligation as a veteran to remember those who died in the great wars to be co-opted by current or former politicians to justify our folly in Iraq, our morally dubious war on terror and our elimination of one's right to privacy.

Come 2014 when the government marks the beginning of the first world war with quotes from Rupert Brooke, Rudyard Kipling and other great jingoists from our past empire, I will declare myself a conscientious objector. We must remember that the historical past of this country is not like an episode of Downton Abbey where the rich are portrayed as thoughtful, benevolent masters to poor folk who need the guiding hand of the ruling classes to live a proper life.

I can tell you it didn't happen that way because I was born nine years after the first world war began. I can attest that life for most people was spent in abject poverty where one laboured under brutal working conditions for little pay and lived in houses not fit to kennel a dog today. We must remember that the war was fought by the working classes who comprised 80% of Britain's population in 1913.

This is why I find that the government's intention to spend £50m to dress the slaughter of close to a million British soldiers in the 1914-18 conflict as a fight for freedom and democracy profane. Too many of the dead, from that horrendous war, didn't know real freedom because they were poor and were never truly represented by their members of parliament.

My uncle and many of my relatives died in that war and they weren't officers or NCOs; they were simple Tommies. They were like the hundreds of thousands of other boys who were sent to their slaughter by a government that didn't care to represent their citizens if they were working poor and under-educated. My family members took the king's shilling because they had little choice, whereas many others from similar economic backgrounds were strong-armed into enlisting by war propaganda or press-ganged into military service by their employers.

For many of you 1914 probably seems like a long time ago but I'll be 91 next year, so it feels recent. Today, we have allowed monolithic corporate institutions to set our national agenda. We have allowed vitriol to replace earnest debate and we have somehow deluded ourselves into thinking that wealth is wisdom. But by far the worst error we have made as a people is to think ourselves as taxpayers first and citizens second.

Next year, I won't wear the poppy but I will until my last breath remember the past and the struggles my generation made to build this country into a civilised state for the working and middle classes. If we are to survive as a progressive nation we have to start tending to our living because the wounded: our poor, our underemployed youth, our hard-pressed middle class and our struggling seniors shouldn't be left to die on the battleground of modern life.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: maddog on November 08, 2013, 11:41:32 AM
Poppy watch from Brum, on train on way to work didnt see one from about 50 odd people around me. In work the strike rate is 1 from about 40 in the office, and he is the sort to do that, Union flag on his desk when England are playing in cricket or world cup.
They are selling them in the foyer of the building so everyone is walking past them at least twice a day.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2013, 11:44:20 AM
Harry is spot on.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2013, 11:49:41 AM
I noticed German Michael Ballack wearing a poppy the other night. Would he get as much abuse about that in Germany, as O'Neill and Keane would in Ireland?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 08, 2013, 12:35:59 PM
Quote from: maddog on November 08, 2013, 11:41:32 AM
, and he is the sort to do that, Union flag on his desk when England are playing in cricket or world cup.


Not much of an Englishman flying a flag with Irish and Scots crosses on it too. ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 08, 2013, 12:35:59 PM
Quote from: maddog on November 08, 2013, 11:41:32 AM
, and he is the sort to do that, Union flag on his desk when England are playing in cricket or world cup.


Not much of an Englishman flying a flag with Irish and Scots crosses on it too. ::)

UK = Greater England. Fair play to him for his honesty.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: maddog on November 08, 2013, 01:52:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 08, 2013, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 08, 2013, 12:35:59 PM
Quote from: maddog on November 08, 2013, 11:41:32 AM
, and he is the sort to do that, Union flag on his desk when England are playing in cricket or world cup.


Not much of an Englishman flying a flag with Irish and Scots crosses on it too. ::)

UK = Greater England. Fair play to him for his honesty.

Or as a mate of mine says, Scotland and Wales - just the nicer bits of England
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: straightred on November 08, 2013, 02:11:11 PM
A quick stroll around Dublin city centre revealed 2. I can't say I was looking out for them but when I did see one I kept an eye on it. The first was an older man walking in a hurry past the Shelbourne and the other was a man on a Dublin rental bike. Its 2 more than you'd have seen 10 years ago but they are still as rare as hens teeth in my experience anyway

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: J OGorman on November 08, 2013, 02:35:34 PM
this thread always amazes me...cant for the life of me understand why anyone give a fiddlers
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 08, 2013, 03:04:20 PM
Brave Marine guilty of murder in Afghanistan

WEAR IT WITH PRIDE
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2013, 07:38:59 PM
Irish times letter

Sir, – Each year as we approach November 11th, Irish society has to endure sterile and divisive controversy concerning Armistice Day, poppy-wearing and the commemoration of those who died serving with British forces during the first World War. Those Irish who died fighting in both world wars are solemnly remembered in a dignified and respectful manner on our National Day of Commemoration each July. This commemoration is devoid of the jingoism of the British equivalent, Remembrance Day.
It is inconceivable therefore that the incoming manager and assistant manager of the Irish international soccer team, Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane, with poppy in lapels (Front page, November 6th), could be unaware of the symbolism of the poppy in Ireland which has a political subtext. It is even more inconceivable that Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane could be unaware that monies collected from the sale and wearing of the poppy is used to provide material support for British soldiers who fought in the illegal invasion of Iraq and  Afghanistan. Even British soldiers involved in the recent Troubles in the North, including the events of Bloody Sunday, are recipients of funds collected from the sale of poppies.
I am uncomfortable with any Irish sporting organisation aligning itself with the British army. I furthermore find it regrettable that the incoming managers of Ireland's national soccer team would endorse publicly the purchase and wearing of the poppy in Ireland. – Yours, etc,   
TOM COOPER,
Delaford Lawn,
Knocklyon,
Dublin 16.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 08, 2013, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?
Why should his post be about Flanders?

There's a clue in the title of this thread.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 08, 2013, 10:14:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 08, 2013, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?
Why should his post be about Flanders?

There's a clue in the title of this thread.

So the poppy appeal is only for World War veterans now?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LeoMc on November 08, 2013, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 08, 2013, 10:14:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 08, 2013, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?
Why should his post be about Flanders?

There's a clue in the title of this thread.

So the poppy appeal is only for World War veterans now?
Yes, no money goes to support veterans of "peacekeeping" duties on neighbouring islands or any illegal wars.
They are actually unsure what to do with this years collection after Florence died last year. ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: EC Unique on November 08, 2013, 11:38:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 08, 2013, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?
Why should his post be about Flanders?

There's a clue in the title of this thread.

Jez! You really don't understand do you?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 08, 2013, 11:58:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 08, 2013, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?
Why should his post be about Flanders?

There's a clue in the title of this thread.
From poppy.org.uk...

Each year the nation shows its support for our work through the Poppy Appeal.Every poppy helps us to support the British Armed Forces past and present, and their families. Please give generously and wear your poppy with pride.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 09, 2013, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 08, 2013, 11:58:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 08, 2013, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2013, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on November 07, 2013, 07:51:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24851450)

"We shall remember"

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the ones that were sent into the grinder in Flanders?
Why should his post be about Flanders?

There's a clue in the title of this thread.
From poppy.org.uk...

Each year the nation shows its support for our work through the Poppy Appeal.Every poppy helps us to support the British Armed Forces past and present, and their families. Please give generously and wear your poppy with pride.

So, if you buy a poppy, you're supporting war. And an illegal war at that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 09, 2013, 07:14:38 AM
Yes. If it was only to support the dead of the 2 world wars I'd buy one. I wouldn't wear it but I'd buy one
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tonto on November 09, 2013, 09:31:55 AM
I was in France and Belgium over the summer and visited the war graves for the first time.  These are maintained beautifully by the CWGC who visit each and every cemetery once a week in order to maintain the graves.  If that's not worth supporting (or at the VERY least, not opposing), then I don't know what is.

The graves I saw contained the remains of people from our own parishes... And that goes for all of us, whether we live in Castlereagh, the Falls, Strabane, Dublin or Cork.

This thread is bloody depressing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2013, 09:43:54 AM
Quote from: Tonto on November 09, 2013, 09:31:55 AM
I was in France and Belgium over the summer and visited the war graves for the first time.  These are maintained beautifully by the CWGC who visit each and every cemetery once a week in order to maintain the graves.  If that's not worth supporting (or at the VERY least, not opposing), then I don't know what is.

The graves I saw contained the remains of people from our own parishes... And that goes for all of us, whether we live in Castlereagh, the Falls, Strabane, Dublin or Cork.

This thread is bloody depressing.

What's your point? I mentioned this a few pages back. Unionist attitude frequently appears to be that because Catholics and Irish nationalists fought in the World Wars, Catholics and nationalists today should have no issue with the poppy. That we should forget about Bloody Sunday or Aidan McAnespie or UDR collusion because some of our own died under Britain's flag.

What you'll find is that most people here have absolutely no issue with anyone wearing or purchasing a poppy - it's the overt politicisation of it compared to, say, ten years ago. The irony of David Cameron telling FIFA that the poppy isn't a political symbol. Mike Nesbitt on Let's Talk last year actually saying it made him angry, when he saw people not wearing poppies.

Jon Snow has it right - it's poppy fascism. Everybody has a right to choose.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LeoMc on November 09, 2013, 09:52:04 AM
Quote from: Tonto on November 09, 2013, 09:31:55 AM
I was in France and Belgium over the summer and visited the war graves for the first time.  These are maintained beautifully by the CWGC who visit each and every cemetery once a week in order to maintain the graves.  If that's not worth supporting (or at the VERY least, not opposing), then I don't know what is.

The graves I saw contained the remains of people from our own parishes... And that goes for all of us, whether we live in Castlereagh, the Falls, Strabane, Dublin or Cork.

This thread is bloody depressing.

I don't think anyone is opposing it. However the wearing of the poppy is about more than that.

Would you see an equivalence between support if the Irish Graves Association and the IRA?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2013, 09:55:31 AM
It's nothing to do with bitterness either. Forgive me as a can't remember the name but there's a young lad from somewhere in East Belfast who had his legs blown off in either Iraq or Afghanistan. I've seen him on a number of tv shows and he is courage and dignity personified. He's not angry, he's not filled with despair - he has accepted what has happened and now simply wants to move on with his life and, I imagine, needs all the support he can get.

I have no issue with funds from poppy sales helping people like this out, providing whatever care and assistance may be required. What angers me is the likes of Blair, Brown and Cameron who sent the poor bastards their in the first place having the temerity to encourage and pressure the wider population to give generously while they wash their hands of everything because they stick a poppy on their lapel for six weeks of the year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Canalman on November 09, 2013, 12:45:01 PM
Very good article (and fair imo) in today's Daily Mail about the wearing of the poppy in Ireland. Written by Tom McGurk  and well worth a read.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 09, 2013, 01:52:18 PM
Quote from: Tonto on November 09, 2013, 09:31:55 AM
I was in France and Belgium over the summer and visited the war graves for the first time.  These are maintained beautifully by the CWGC who visit each and every cemetery once a week in order to maintain the graves.  If that's not worth supporting (or at the VERY least, not opposing), then I don't know what is.

The graves I saw contained the remains of people from our own parishes... And that goes for all of us, whether we live in Castlereagh, the Falls, Strabane, Dublin or Cork.

This thread is bloody depressing.

Then don't read it. Scratch that, you clearly don't read it or you'd see that most people don't object to people wearing the poppy, it's the saturation coverage of it laden with passive-aggressive behaviour towards those who refuse to conform. But you carry on telling yourself that we're all pissing on the graves of the dead.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2013, 02:15:31 PM
Quote from: Tonto on November 09, 2013, 09:31:55 AM
I was in France and Belgium over the summer and visited the war graves for the first time.  These are maintained beautifully by the CWGC who visit each and every cemetery once a week in order to maintain the graves.  If that's not worth supporting (or at the VERY least, not opposing), then I don't know what is.

The graves I saw contained the remains of people from our own parishes... And that goes for all of us, whether we live in Castlereagh, the Falls, Strabane, Dublin or Cork.

This thread is bloody depressing.
I went to the German cemetery in El Alamein once. The Germans have the right attitude to war- it's madness.
There are 3 million Germans buried somewhere in the East. There is no such thing as a good war. 
The poppy is all about 'oh how unfortunate our soldiers were'.
All this bollocks about bravery and service.   
PTSD comes as standard. And many ex squaddies end up homeless.
The next wave of recruits get the jingoism.
And so it continues.
God save the Queen.

And the Unionists with their identity issues.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 09, 2013, 03:13:51 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 09, 2013, 09:55:31 AM
It's nothing to do with bitterness either. Forgive me as a can't remember the name but there's a young lad from somewhere in East Belfast who had his legs blown off in either Iraq or Afghanistan. I've seen him on a number of tv shows and he is courage and dignity personified. He's not angry, he's not filled with despair - he has accepted what has happened and now simply wants to move on with his life and, I imagine, needs all the support he can get.

I have no issue with funds from poppy sales helping people like this out, providing whatever care and assistance may be required. What angers me is the likes of Blair, Brown and Cameron who sent the poor b**tards their in the first place having the temerity to encourage and pressure the wider population to give generously while they wash their hands of everything because they stick a poppy on their lapel for six weeks of the year.
God be with the Middle Ages when the King led his country into battle. Methinks that if that tradition was about today there'd be far less wars
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
we getting too worried about the poppy lads, it shouldn't bother us, was in ballymoney the day and there was alot of poppies all round, tesco staff, selling alot in tesco,shop owners and alot of customers, doesnt worry me, if they want to wear one so be it, i dont give out to those who do, i probably know more about the origins of the poppy than alot of the people who may wear it to feel british and not necessary to support what the poppy was originally intended to fund.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 09, 2013, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
we getting too worried about the poppy lads, it shouldn't bother us, was in ballymoney the day and there was alot of poppies all round, tesco staff, selling alot in tesco,shop owners and alot of customers, doesnt worry me, if they want to wear one so be it, i dont give out to those who do, i probably know more about the origins of the poppy than alot of the people who may wear it to feel british and not necessary to support what the poppy was originally intended to fund.
I love the casual assumptions made about why people wear poppies.  If as you say, most simply wear a poppy to feel British, do you not think that this may in part be a reaction to Nationalists' long-standing opposition to them?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 09, 2013, 06:16:23 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 09, 2013, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
we getting too worried about the poppy lads, it shouldn't bother us, was in ballymoney the day and there was alot of poppies all round, tesco staff, selling alot in tesco,shop owners and alot of customers, doesnt worry me, if they want to wear one so be it, i dont give out to those who do, i probably know more about the origins of the poppy than alot of the people who may wear it to feel british and not necessary to support what the poppy was originally intended to fund.
I love the casual assumptions made about why people wear poppies.  If as you say, most simply wear a poppy to feel British, do you not think that this may in part be a reaction to Nationalists' long-standing opposition to them?

That long-standing opposition might have something to do with the fact this divisive symbol also encompasses Black N Tans and Auxilliaries (murdering thugs sanctioned by central government), UDR and RUC members (colluding bastards sanctioned by central government), members of the Parachute Regiment (more murdering bastards sanctioned by central government). A huge amount of unionists in the statelet rushed to join reserved occupations the second Adolf set foot in Poland, don't forget. And those nationalists that did volunteer got absolutely no thanks for it after the war by being denied employment and housing ... do you want me to paint you a picture? Idiot
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2013, 06:16:23 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 09, 2013, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
we getting too worried about the poppy lads, it shouldn't bother us, was in ballymoney the day and there was alot of poppies all round, tesco staff, selling alot in tesco,shop owners and alot of customers, doesnt worry me, if they want to wear one so be it, i dont give out to those who do, i probably know more about the origins of the poppy than alot of the people who may wear it to feel british and not necessary to support what the poppy was originally intended to fund.
I love the casual assumptions made about why people wear poppies.  If as you say, most simply wear a poppy to feel British, do you not think that this may in part be a reaction to Nationalists' long-standing opposition to them?

That long-standing opposition might have something to do with the fact this divisive symbol also encompasses Black N Tans and Auxilliaries (murdering thugs sanctioned by central government), UDR and RUC members (colluding b**tards sanctioned by central government), members of the Parachute Regiment (more murdering b**tards sanctioned by central government). A huge amount of unionists in the statelet rushed to join reserved occupations the second Adolf set foot in Poland, don't forget. And those nationalists that did volunteer got absolutely no thanks for it after the war by being denied employment and housing ... do you want me to paint you a picture? Idiot
Lots of talk about murderers from the man who frequently voices his support for the murderers of the IRA.  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 09, 2013, 06:48:08 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2013, 06:16:23 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 09, 2013, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
we getting too worried about the poppy lads, it shouldn't bother us, was in ballymoney the day and there was alot of poppies all round, tesco staff, selling alot in tesco,shop owners and alot of customers, doesnt worry me, if they want to wear one so be it, i dont give out to those who do, i probably know more about the origins of the poppy than alot of the people who may wear it to feel british and not necessary to support what the poppy was originally intended to fund.
I love the casual assumptions made about why people wear poppies.  If as you say, most simply wear a poppy to feel British, do you not think that this may in part be a reaction to Nationalists' long-standing opposition to them?

That long-standing opposition might have something to do with the fact this divisive symbol also encompasses Black N Tans and Auxilliaries (murdering thugs sanctioned by central government), UDR and RUC members (colluding b**tards sanctioned by central government), members of the Parachute Regiment (more murdering b**tards sanctioned by central government). A huge amount of unionists in the statelet rushed to join reserved occupations the second Adolf set foot in Poland, don't forget. And those nationalists that did volunteer got absolutely no thanks for it after the war by being denied employment and housing ... do you want me to paint you a picture? Idiot
Lots of talk about murderers from the man who frequently voices his support for the murderers of the IRA.  ::)
[/quote

If the IRA was going for another 100 years they would still be a long long way behind the killing machine of the British Army
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haveaharp on November 09, 2013, 07:58:40 PM
Quote from: Tonto on November 09, 2013, 09:31:55 AM
I was in France and Belgium over the summer and visited the war graves for the first time.  These are maintained beautifully by the CWGC who visit each and every cemetery once a week in order to maintain the graves.  If that's not worth supporting (or at the VERY least, not opposing), then I don't know what is.

The graves I saw contained the remains of people from our own parishes... And that goes for all of us, whether we live in Castlereagh, the Falls, Strabane, Dublin or Cork.

This thread is bloody depressing.


What is your view Tonto on the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, do you feel that the reasons used for invasion and the continued presence was/is justified and the Britain has a role to play on its own or with American help in interfering around the world where there is commercial gain to be had ? I think a lot of the guys on this thread object to the modern involvement and have no problem with folk remembering their war dead from ww1 and ww2 but wont necessarily wear the poppy themselves due to its modern symbolism.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2013, 08:32:15 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2013, 06:16:23 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 09, 2013, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
we getting too worried about the poppy lads, it shouldn't bother us, was in ballymoney the day and there was alot of poppies all round, tesco staff, selling alot in tesco,shop owners and alot of customers, doesnt worry me, if they want to wear one so be it, i dont give out to those who do, i probably know more about the origins of the poppy than alot of the people who may wear it to feel british and not necessary to support what the poppy was originally intended to fund.
I love the casual assumptions made about why people wear poppies.  If as you say, most simply wear a poppy to feel British, do you not think that this may in part be a reaction to Nationalists' long-standing opposition to them?

That long-standing opposition might have something to do with the fact this divisive symbol also encompasses Black N Tans and Auxilliaries (murdering thugs sanctioned by central government), UDR and RUC members (colluding b**tards sanctioned by central government), members of the Parachute Regiment (more murdering b**tards sanctioned by central government). A huge amount of unionists in the statelet rushed to join reserved occupations the second Adolf set foot in Poland, don't forget. And those nationalists that did volunteer got absolutely no thanks for it after the war by being denied employment and housing ... do you want me to paint you a picture? Idiot
Lots of talk about murderers from the man who frequently voices his support for the murderers of the IRA.  ::)
His point is still very valid and 100% spot on.
I wonder do the uberBrit Unionists ever ask themselves why there was no conscription in the North during WW2?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2013, 10:12:27 PM
QuoteLots of talk about murderers from the man who frequently voices his support for the murderers of the IRA.

When it comes to murder, those who poppies commemorate put the IRA in the ha'penny place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2013, 10:12:27 PM
QuoteLots of talk about murderers from the man who frequently voices his support for the murderers of the IRA.

When it comes to murder, those who poppies commemorate put the IRA in the ha'penny place.
Murderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 09, 2013, 11:24:04 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2013, 10:12:27 PM
QuoteLots of talk about murderers from the man who frequently voices his support for the murderers of the IRA.

When it comes to murder, those who poppies commemorate put the IRA in the ha'penny place.
Murderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league.


You've conveniently changed your tune.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Who killed more Catholics than the British forces? The IRA. Who outkilled every other armed grouping? The IRA. Get your heads out of yer republican arses, lads.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 10, 2009, 07:12:22 AM
As for the IRA killing Catholics, sure that's a matter of public record. They killed more Catholics than any other group in the course of the conflict here.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 06, 2010, 04:51:11 PM
The bombs which killed and maimed hundreds were planted mainly by the cowardly murdering w**k£r of the IRA.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on April 16, 2009, 05:11:08 PM
these were the protectors who killed more Catholics than the loyalists and the Brits.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2013, 11:38:07 PM
QuoteMurderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league.

Tell that to the BBC, who are using public money to commemorate these people.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2013, 11:24:04 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2013, 10:12:27 PM
QuoteLots of talk about murderers from the man who frequently voices his support for the murderers of the IRA.

When it comes to murder, those who poppies commemorate put the IRA in the ha'penny place.
Murderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league.


You've conveniently changed your tune.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Who killed more Catholics than the British forces? The IRA. Who outkilled every other armed grouping? The IRA. Get your heads out of yer republican arses, lads.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 10, 2009, 07:12:22 AM
As for the IRA killing Catholics, sure that's a matter of public record. They killed more Catholics than any other group in the course of the conflict here.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 06, 2010, 04:51:11 PM
The bombs which killed and maimed hundreds were planted mainly by the cowardly murdering w**k£r of the IRA.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on April 16, 2009, 05:11:08 PM
these were the protectors who killed more Catholics than the loyalists and the Brits.
The debate's moved on. Then, the context was whether the IRA were protectors of the Catholic population or murderers. Now we have provo apologists like Red Hander conceding that the provos were murderers, just not as prolific as the British Army. I see that as progress.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 09, 2013, 11:59:29 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
The debate's moved on. Then, the context was whether the IRA were protectors of the Catholic population or murderers. Now we have provo apologists like Red Hander conceding that the provos were murderers, just not as prolific as the British Army. I see that as progress.

This comment:
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Who outkilled every other armed grouping? The IRA.
...was made in a thread about Bloody Sunday and the British Army. It is a succinct phrase from you about which armed group killed more people, not about which group killed more Catholics. Yet as soon as it's pointed out that the British Army murdered vastly more people than the IRA, then suddenly...
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
Murderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league.

Somebody take the shovel off this hypocrite.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 10, 2013, 12:12:07 AM
Yeovil v Wigan tomorrow. All eyes will be on James McClean, if he plays.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Shamrock Shore on November 10, 2013, 12:17:24 AM
From yesterday's Irish Times..... ???

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYpLdciIAAAQU3J.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2013, 12:29:09 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 10, 2013, 12:17:24 AM
yesterday's Irish Times..... ???

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYpLdciIAAAQU3J.jpg:large)
Lolz  ;D

I would never wear one but I didn't mind throwing a quid into a tin. When I did so I thought of the auld fellas from WWII. As these fellas disappear the only people benefitting are those after the war and into Troubles era. The quid stays in my pocket now.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 10, 2013, 07:22:12 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2013, 11:59:29 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
The debate's moved on. Then, the context was whether the IRA were protectors of the Catholic population or murderers. Now we have provo apologists like Red Hander conceding that the provos were murderers, just not as prolific as the British Army. I see that as progress.

This comment:
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Who outkilled every other armed grouping? The IRA.
...was made in a thread about Bloody Sunday and the British Army. It is a succinct phrase from you about which armed group killed more people, not about which group killed more Catholics. Yet as soon as it's pointed out that the British Army murdered vastly more people than the IRA, then suddenly...
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
Murderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league.

Somebody take the shovel off this hypocrite.
You really need to get yourself a hobby, friend. You're spending too much time trawling through old posts - never a good sign. I stand by all those statements, btw, - I would argue that the IRA murdered many more people than the British Army in the course of the troubles, but like I said, I think it's healthy that we now have IRA apologists like yourself openly discussing the issue.

What about stamp collecting?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 10, 2013, 08:48:56 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2013, 12:29:09 AM
I would never wear one but I didn't mind throwing a quid into a tin. When I did so I thought of the auld fellas from WWII. As these fellas disappear the only people benefitting are those after the war and into Troubles era. The quid stays in my pocket now.

I'd feel the same way. I'll be at the Remembrance service today in Waterford where the Irish defence forces will be part of the proceedings. None of them will be wearing a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2013, 09:20:08 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 10, 2013, 07:22:12 AM
You really need to get yourself a hobby, friend. You're spending too much time trawling through old posts - never a good sign. I stand by all those statements, btw, - I would argue that the IRA murdered many more people than the British Army in the course of the troubles, but like I said, I think it's healthy that we now have IRA apologists like yourself openly discussing

The search function is great. No trawling through old posts required.

Myles A:
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Who outkilled every other armed grouping? The IRA.

Myles B:
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
Murderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league


HYPOCRITE
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 10, 2013, 11:38:51 AM
I see the remembrance sunday service from St patricks in Dublin on RTE 1 now with people wearing poppies, feel free to get offended
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Club Rossa on November 10, 2013, 12:09:07 PM
I noticed on MOTD this morning that Shane Long didn't have a poppy on his shirt yesterday.Surprised there hasn't been an outcry over It from the poppy fascists,
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 10, 2013, 12:52:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2013, 09:20:08 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 10, 2013, 07:22:12 AM
You really need to get yourself a hobby, friend. You're spending too much time trawling through old posts - never a good sign. I stand by all those statements, btw, - I would argue that the IRA murdered many more people than the British Army in the course of the troubles, but like I said, I think it's healthy that we now have IRA apologists like yourself openly discussing

The search function is great. No trawling through old posts required.

Myles A:
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Who outkilled every other armed grouping? The IRA.

Myles B:
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
Murderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league


HYPOCRITE
No need to shout, I heard you the first time. You're working up a head of steam simply to avoid the main point of my post, which is that the IRA were engaged in murder. Other posters claim that they were less efficient murderers than the British Army, a point I disagree with, but you're such a provo-groupie that you can't even bring yourself to use the words 'murder' and 'IRA' in the same sentence. Truly a lost cause.

Was in the paper shop earlier and noticed the front page story that claims that it was a teenage Pat McGeown who fired a bullet into the back of Jean McConville's head. Couldn't be true, though, could it?  He was a hunger striker after all. Were they not all warrior-poets? Here, what did you think of that attempt to kill a former police officer during the week, by placing a bomb under his car? Apparently it would've taken his 12 year old daughter out as well.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: CD on November 10, 2013, 02:13:11 PM
Quote from: Club Rossa on November 10, 2013, 12:09:07 PM
I noticed on MOTD this morning that Shane Long didn't have a poppy on his shirt yesterday.Surprised there hasn't been an outcry over It from the poppy fascists,

Nice to see a player who has the courage not to wear it when he doesn't believe it's appropriate. Most players probably don't care one way or the other and probably don't even notice it on their kit. I'll assume James McClean won't have one on today for Wigan - I know he got a bit of stick from Sunderland fans last year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stibhan on November 10, 2013, 02:21:12 PM
It's funny how many people who are vociferously in favour of wearing the poppy for Remembrance Day/Week seem to be able to tweet/post/share their outrage at those who choose not to, instead of participating in the ceremonies themselves.

Did they perhaps forget it was Remembrance Day?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:12:58 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 10, 2013, 03:02:31 PM
James McClean dropped and sent home for not wearing one. Anyone else hear that?

He's not in the 18
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2013, 03:13:42 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 10, 2013, 12:52:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2013, 09:20:08 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 10, 2013, 07:22:12 AM
You really need to get yourself a hobby, friend. You're spending too much time trawling through old posts - never a good sign. I stand by all those statements, btw, - I would argue that the IRA murdered many more people than the British Army in the course of the troubles, but like I said, I think it's healthy that we now have IRA apologists like yourself openly discussing

The search function is great. No trawling through old posts required.

Myles A:
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Who outkilled every other armed grouping? The IRA.

Myles B:
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
Murderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league


HYPOCRITE
No need to shout, I heard you the first time. You're working up a head of steam simply to avoid the main point of my post, which is that the IRA were engaged in murder. Other posters claim that they were less efficient murderers than the British Army, a point I disagree with, but you're such a provo-groupie that you can't even bring yourself to use the words 'murder' and 'IRA' in the same sentence. Truly a lost cause.

Was in the paper shop earlier and noticed the front page story that claims that it was a teenage Pat McGeown who fired a bullet into the back of Jean McConville's head. Couldn't be true, though, could it?  He was a hunger striker after all. Were they not all warrior-poets? Here, what did you think of that attempt to kill a former police officer during the week, by placing a bomb under his car? Apparently it would've taken his 12 year old daughter out as well.

I was gonna read all that but then I realised that you've probably said the exact opposite on another thread recently and I wouldn't know which of you to listen to. Hypocrite.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:28:04 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:12:58 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 10, 2013, 03:02:31 PM
James McClean dropped and sent home for not wearing one. Anyone else hear that?

He's not in the 18
. . . he just scored a point for Kilcoo!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: CD on November 10, 2013, 06:05:05 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:28:04 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:12:58 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 10, 2013, 03:02:31 PM
James McClean dropped and sent home for not wearing one. Anyone else hear that?

He's not in the 18
. . . he just scored a point for Kilcoo!

The real reason why James McClean didn't play today -http://balls.ie/football/james-mcclean-didnt-play-for-wigan-because-he-had-a-dead-leg/
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2013, 06:30:04 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 06:05:05 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:28:04 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:12:58 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 10, 2013, 03:02:31 PM
James McClean dropped and sent home for not wearing one. Anyone else hear that?

He's not in the 18
. . . he just scored a point for Kilcoo!

The real reason why James McClean didn't play today -http://balls.ie/football/james-mcclean-didnt-play-for-wigan-because-he-had-a-dead-leg/

Hopefully that is true.

Whatever about wearing a poppy, anyone should be entitled to not wear one for any reason they choose.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: CD on November 10, 2013, 07:53:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2013, 06:30:04 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 06:05:05 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:28:04 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:12:58 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 10, 2013, 03:02:31 PM
James McClean dropped and sent home for not wearing one. Anyone else hear that?

He's not in the 18
. . . he just scored a point for Kilcoo!

The real reason why James McClean didn't play today -http://balls.ie/football/james-mcclean-didnt-play-for-wigan-because-he-had-a-dead-leg/

Hopefully that is true.

Whatever about wearing a poppy, anyone should be entitled to not wear one for any reason they choose.

Although according to the Derry Daily
http://www.derrydaily.net/2013/11/10/james-mcclean-dropped-by-wigan-for-not-wearing-poppy/ (http://www.derrydaily.net/2013/11/10/james-mcclean-dropped-by-wigan-for-not-wearing-poppy/)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 11, 2013, 12:39:14 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2013, 11:24:04 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 09, 2013, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2013, 10:12:27 PM
QuoteLots of talk about murderers from the man who frequently voices his support for the murderers of the IRA.

When it comes to murder, those who poppies commemorate put the IRA in the ha'penny place.
Murderers are murderers. Doesn't really matter who's top of the killing league.


You've conveniently changed your tune.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Who killed more Catholics than the British forces? The IRA. Who outkilled every other armed grouping? The IRA. Get your heads out of yer republican arses, lads.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 10, 2009, 07:12:22 AM
As for the IRA killing Catholics, sure that's a matter of public record. They killed more Catholics than any other group in the course of the conflict here.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 06, 2010, 04:51:11 PM
The bombs which killed and maimed hundreds were planted mainly by the cowardly murdering w**k£r of the IRA.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on April 16, 2009, 05:11:08 PM
these were the protectors who killed more Catholics than the loyalists and the Brits.
The debate's moved on. Then, the context was whether the IRA were protectors of the Catholic population or murderers. Now we have provo apologists like Red Hander conceding that the provos were murderers, just not as prolific as the British Army. I see that as progress.
Where do I concede that, asshole? Irish men have the right to oppose through force of arms the invasion of their country by foreign occupiers. Don't twist my Provo apologist (sic) ways to suit your revisionist unionist bullshit arguments. You've been shown up for the tiresome, deluded hypocrite you are
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OakleafCounty on November 11, 2013, 09:22:50 AM
Glad to see the back of it for another year. We have a few months off now before the orange men start again.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
Sainsburys and Debenhams had 2 minutes silence in all their British Stores (including NI) today at 11.00. I wonder how that went down in West Belfast and Derry. A friend recently mentioned what he called the Britishising of the North All the major retailers branding products with Union flags, hanging them from the ceiling and rolling out ponit of sale in our "national colours". Then we have Xfactor, Children in need, UK city of Culture etc... So really Peter is right a majority of Catholics want to remain in th UK, we are all British now.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5 Sams on November 11, 2013, 11:37:11 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
Sainsburys and Debenhams had 2 minutes silence in all their British Stores (including NI) today at 11.00. I wonder how that went down in West Belfast and Derry. A friend recently mentioned what he called the Britishising of the North All the major retailers branding products with Union flags, hanging them from the ceiling and rolling out ponit of sale in our "national colours". Then we have Xfactor, Children in need, UK city of Culture etc... So really Peter is right a majority of Catholics want to remain in th UK, we are all British now.

Have you ever tried getting Kerrygold butter or Barry's Tea in Sainsburys. :-\
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 11:38:10 AM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 11, 2013, 11:37:11 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
Sainsburys and Debenhams had 2 minutes silence in all their British Stores (including NI) today at 11.00. I wonder how that went down in West Belfast and Derry. A friend recently mentioned what he called the Britishising of the North All the major retailers branding products with Union flags, hanging them from the ceiling and rolling out ponit of sale in our "national colours". Then we have Xfactor, Children in need, UK city of Culture etc... So really Peter is right a majority of Catholics want to remain in th UK, we are all British now.

Have you ever tried getting Kerrygold butter or Barry's Tea in Sainsburys. :-\
They do Kerrygold but not Barry's...go to Dunnes for that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Sainsburys in Derry closed for refurb. I cant see them participating though. Very few poppies to be seen around Derry. i dont be around the city centre much but the only 2 i seen in the last week both were been worn by elderly men in DL registrations. Probably EDPs
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2013, 11:43:18 AM
So, Poppy fascism is over for another year. Next up, Children in Need. Like the poppy, it puts pressure on people to participate or give money that they can't afford. I just love November!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OakleafCounty on November 11, 2013, 12:12:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 11, 2013, 11:43:18 AM
So, Poppy fascism is over for another year. Next up, Children in Need. Like the poppy, it puts pressure on people to participate or give money that they can't afford. I just love November!

Your comparing Children in Need with the Poppy Appeal? Anyone can afford to give a pound or two to children in need, a worthy cause if ever there was one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OakleafCounty on November 11, 2013, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
Sainsburys and Debenhams had 2 minutes silence in all their British Stores (including NI) today at 11.00. I wonder how that went down in West Belfast and Derry. A friend recently mentioned what he called the Britishising of the North All the major retailers branding products with Union flags, hanging them from the ceiling and rolling out ponit of sale in our "national colours". Then we have Xfactor, Children in need, UK city of Culture etc... So really Peter is right a majority of Catholics want to remain in th UK, we are all British now.

Is the highlighted bit sarcasm? Of course British companies are going to promote British products, it's good business for them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hereiam on November 11, 2013, 12:29:24 PM
Panorama had done an investigation into the money that has been raised by CIN and was to air this year but was pulled, people would think twice about donating to CIN. Basically the BBC were taking the money and putting it in high yield investments before handing it over, and some has never reached some charities. Never gave them a penny.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 12:34:33 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on November 11, 2013, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
Sainsburys and Debenhams had 2 minutes silence in all their British Stores (including NI) today at 11.00. I wonder how that went down in West Belfast and Derry. A friend recently mentioned what he called the Britishising of the North All the major retailers branding products with Union flags, hanging them from the ceiling and rolling out point of sale in our "national colours". Then we have Xfactor, Children in need, UK city of Culture etc... So really Peter is right a majority of Catholics want to remain in the UK, we are all British now.

Is the highlighted bit sarcasm? Of course British companies are going to promote British products, it's good business for them.
Not at all it's just highlighting how much we now embrace Britishness and what passes for British culture. The real point I would make is that in NI, British Companies make no allowance or any Irish dimension or sensitivities. I have no issue with British Companies promoting British Products, but can you imagine the outcry if an Irish retailer was to do likewise. Dunnes for example use the slogan in the south "The difference is we're Irish"...up here no mention of it. I suppose as a nationalist I dispair at how readily the nationalist community has embraced Britishness and I think the North is more British now than ever.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2013, 12:35:56 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 11, 2013, 12:29:24 PM
Panorama had done an investigation into the money that has been raised by CIN and was to air this year but was pulled, people would think twice about donating to CIN. Basically the BBC were taking the money and putting it in high yield investments before handing it over, and some has never reached some charities. Never gave them a penny.

Doesn't surprise me. I never give to CIN, Trocaire etc for these very reasons.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2013, 12:39:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 12:34:33 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on November 11, 2013, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
Sainsburys and Debenhams had 2 minutes silence in all their British Stores (including NI) today at 11.00. I wonder how that went down in West Belfast and Derry. A friend recently mentioned what he called the Britishising of the North All the major retailers branding products with Union flags, hanging them from the ceiling and rolling out point of sale in our "national colours". Then we have Xfactor, Children in need, UK city of Culture etc... So really Peter is right a majority of Catholics want to remain in the UK, we are all British now.

Is the highlighted bit sarcasm? Of course British companies are going to promote British products, it's good business for them.
Not at all it's just highlighting how much we now embrace Britishness and what passes for British culture. The real point I would make is that in NI, British Companies make no allowance or any Irish dimension or sensitivities. I have no issue with British Companies promoting British Products, but can you imagine the outcry if an Irish retailer was to do likewise. Dunnes for example use the slogan in the south "The difference is we're Irish"...up here no mention of it. I suppose as a nationalist I dispair at how readily the nationalist community has embraced Britishness and I think the North is more British now than ever.

Can you elaborate on this 'britishness'?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2013, 12:42:22 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 12:34:33 PM
Not at all it's just highlighting how much we now embrace Britishness and what passes for British culture. The real point I would make is that in NI, British Companies make no allowance or any Irish dimension or sensitivities. I have no issue with British Companies promoting British Products, but can you imagine the outcry if an Irish retailer was to do likewise. Dunnes for example use the slogan in the south "The difference is we're Irish"...up here no mention of it. I suppose as a nationalist I dispair at how readily the nationalist community has embraced Britishness and I think the North is more British now than ever.

I seem to recall Heinz didn't show the 'Heinz Builds Brits' ads in the North. Cue the usual stink from the usual suspects about giving in to the IRA etc.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2013, 02:37:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
Sainsburys and Debenhams had 2 minutes silence in all their British Stores (including NI) today at 11.00. I wonder how that went down in West Belfast and Derry. A friend recently mentioned what he called the Britishising of the North All the major retailers branding products with Union flags, hanging them from the ceiling and rolling out ponit of sale in our "national colours". Then we have Xfactor, Children in need, UK city of Culture etc... So really Peter is right a majority of Catholics want to remain in th UK, we are all British now.
It'll be gas when Scotland opts out and Lanigan's ball of Britishness really gets going .
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: magpie seanie on November 11, 2013, 02:44:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2013, 06:30:04 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 06:05:05 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:28:04 PM
Quote from: CD on November 10, 2013, 03:12:58 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 10, 2013, 03:02:31 PM
James McClean dropped and sent home for not wearing one. Anyone else hear that?

He's not in the 18
. . . he just scored a point for Kilcoo!

The real reason why James McClean didn't play today -http://balls.ie/football/james-mcclean-didnt-play-for-wigan-because-he-had-a-dead-leg/

Hopefully that is true.

Whatever about wearing a poppy, anyone should be entitled to not wear one for any reason they choose.

I have my doubts about the "dead leg" story. Hope it's true.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on November 11, 2013, 03:19:11 PM
Saw the strangest thing around 11am this morning or at least I thought it was fairly strange.  Man pulled over at the side of the road standing along side his car looking very solemn wearing a massive poppy with his head bowed.  Thought it was an odd thing to do especially at the particular place he chose to stop.

Maybe he was just having a p*ss and couldn't hold it any longer.   
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2013, 03:30:47 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on November 11, 2013, 03:19:11 PM
Saw the strangest thing around 11am this morning or at least I thought it was fairly strange.  Man pulled over at the side of the road standing along side his car looking very solemn wearing a massive poppy with his head bowed.  Thought it was an odd thing to do especially at the particular place he chose to stop.

Maybe he was just having a p*ss and couldn't hold it any longer.

Maybe he was saying the Angelus and hadn't realised the clocks had changed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on November 11, 2013, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2013, 03:30:47 PM
Maybe he was saying the Angelus and hadn't realised the clocks had changed.

The chances he was saying the Angelus were slim :) Haven't seen too many hop out of their car to say the Angelus either.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 11, 2013, 05:00:58 PM
2 minute remembrance/silence at 11 on the 11th of the 11th.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ballinaman on November 11, 2013, 05:55:48 PM
Barman in a pub in Dublin on Friday night was wearing one. I just made a point of not ordering from him, he was perfectly entitled to wear one and I was entitled to ignore him.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 06:29:30 PM
QuoteTruly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

Speak for yourself.

I'm pretty sure Rossfan does not think this, nor anybody else.

However, just because we are not the most oppressed in the world is no reason why we should be oppressed at all. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 11, 2013, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 12:34:33 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on November 11, 2013, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
Sainsburys and Debenhams had 2 minutes silence in all their British Stores (including NI) today at 11.00. I wonder how that went down in West Belfast and Derry. A friend recently mentioned what he called the Britishising of the North All the major retailers branding products with Union flags, hanging them from the ceiling and rolling out point of sale in our "national colours". Then we have Xfactor, Children in need, UK city of Culture etc... So really Peter is right a majority of Catholics want to remain in the UK, we are all British now.

Is the highlighted bit sarcasm? Of course British companies are going to promote British products, it's good business for them.
Not at all it's just highlighting how much we now embrace Britishness and what passes for British culture. The real point I would make is that in NI, British Companies make no allowance or any Irish dimension or sensitivities. I have no issue with British Companies promoting British Products, but can you imagine the outcry if an Irish retailer was to do likewise. Dunnes for example use the slogan in the south "The difference is we're Irish"...up here no mention of it. I suppose as a nationalist I dispair at how readily the nationalist community has embraced Britishness and I think the North is more British now than ever.
What about Sainsbury's and their bi-lingual signage at their West Belfast store?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:44:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 06:29:30 PM
QuoteTruly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

Speak for yourself.

I'm pretty sure Rossfan does not think this, nor anybody else.

However, just because we are not the most oppressed in the world is no reason why we should be oppressed at all.
In what way are you oppressed now, in November 2013?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 06:48:25 PM
QuoteWhat about Sainsbury's and their bi-lingual signage at their West Belfast store?

One example does not contradict that argument. Why should all NI stores not be like this?

QuoteIn what way are you oppressed now, in November 2013?

Britain's colonisation project in Ireland has been mitigated, not ended.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 11, 2013, 07:04:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 06:48:25 PM
QuoteWhat about Sainsbury's and their bi-lingual signage at their West Belfast store?

One example does not contradict that argument. Why should all NI stores not be like this?
How many indigenous chains do this? Why would you expect a British chain to be more Irish than the Irish chains? Bi-lingual signage in supermarkets isn't the norm in the south, nevermind the north. This was an example of a British chain adapting to the particular location of one of their stores.

Anyway, if enough people really cared about this lack of an "Irish dimension or sensitivities" they'd vote with their feet.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 07:06:28 PM
QuoteAnyway, if enough people really cared about this lack of an "Irish dimension or sensitivities" they'd vote with their feet.

What's the alternative? Anyway only Sainsbury's have coffee bags.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:29:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 06:48:25 PM
QuoteWhat about Sainsbury's and their bi-lingual signage at their West Belfast store?

One example does not contradict that argument. Why should all NI stores not be like this?

QuoteIn what way are you oppressed now, in November 2013?

Britain's colonisation project in Ireland has been mitigated, not ended.
If the British thought they could quit the north of Ireland without too much fuss, they'd be gone in the morning. In fact, they'd have left years ago. Why do you think they're here - for our beautiful, balmy summers and temperate winters? For the fruits of our vibrant economy? The colonisation project finished many many years ago. What is left to clear up is the mess of post colonialism.  But you didn't answer the question. In what way are you oppressed?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 11, 2013, 07:32:27 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:29:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 06:48:25 PM
QuoteWhat about Sainsbury's and their bi-lingual signage at their West Belfast store?

One example does not contradict that argument. Why should all NI stores not be like this?

QuoteIn what way are you oppressed now, in November 2013?

Britain's colonisation project in Ireland has been mitigated, not ended.
If the British thought they could quit the north of Ireland without too much fuss, they'd be gone in the morning. In fact, they'd have left years ago. Why do you think they're here - for our beautiful, balmy summers and temperate winters? For the fruits of our vibrant economy? The colonisation project finished many many years ago. What is left to clear up is the mess of post colonialism.  But you didn't answer the question. In what way are you oppressed?

Which, ironically, is what Remembrance Day should be about.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 11, 2013, 07:42:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 07:06:28 PM
QuoteAnyway, if enough people really cared about this lack of an "Irish dimension or sensitivities" they'd vote with their feet.

What's the alternative? Anyway only Sainsbury's have coffee bags.
Dunnes? Local shops? If it really was that big of an issue...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 11, 2013, 07:52:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?

Of this is not new to him.  You are dealing here with a WUM of the highest order.  Something which was made abundantly clear to the rest of the board when he was made a total fool out of on this thread a couple of days ago.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:57:32 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 11, 2013, 07:52:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?

Of this is not new to him.  You are dealing here with a WUM of the highest order.  Something which was made abundantly clear to the rest of the board when he was made a total fool out of on this thread a couple of days ago.

I know, I know. I honestly think we should block members who don't post in the GAA threads.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?
British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 08:20:11 PM
QuoteBritish? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

Life did not evolve initially in Ireland, as far as I understand (of course saying it evolved at all is probably an insult to the PUL community). So people have always come  to Ireland. These people generally made their home here, the Normans become more Irish than the Irish themselves. The British, a section of them, do not make their home here but continue to describe themselves as British and seek to have British rule. So the narrative is fine.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2013, 08:37:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 08:20:11 PM
QuoteBritish? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

Life did not evolve initially in Ireland, as far as I understand (of course saying it evolved at all is probably an insult to the PUL community). So people have always come  to Ireland. These people generally made their home here, the Normans become more Irish than the Irish themselves. The British, a section of them, do not make their home here but continue to describe themselves as British and seek to have British rule. So the narrative is fine.
The Vikings (eg Loftus, McAuley) and Normans (eg Meath accent) integrated. The Planters in Ulster mostly didn't. Irish society was stronger pre 1500 whereas post 1500 it was gradually pauperised which is not unrelated.   
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 08:38:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 08:20:11 PM
QuoteBritish? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

Life did not evolve initially in Ireland, as far as I understand (of course saying it evolved at all is probably an insult to the PUL community). So people have always come  to Ireland. These people generally made their home here, the Normans become more Irish than the Irish themselves. The British, a section of them, do not make their home here but continue to describe themselves as British and seek to have British rule. So the narrative is fine.
So you think the average Ulster Prod commutes here from England? Of course they've made this place their home. Many do describe themselves as Irish and many more would do so, were it not for the fact that the definition of Irish over the years has become synonymous with a narrow Gaelic, Catholic nationalism. That they identify themselves as and with the British is not surprising given their history. That doesn't mean they don't belong here. They've been here long enough to be classed as natives, unless you plan on telling white Americans, Australians and Canadians that they don't belong in their respective countries either.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 11, 2013, 08:42:59 PM
Are they described as 'native Americans' then?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?
British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

I do not need a lecture from you on the complexities of Irish history - I'm already well aware of it. However I would like to point out that the idea of a nation, and nationalism, was not in place during the Viking invasion of the island, but the sustained British colonisation of Ireland and the eventual arrival of British and Irish Nationalism is the main factor in modern identity-formation on these shores, and the subjugation most relevant to a debate about poppies.

Britain as a placename, or a formulation of it, was used first in the 4th Century by the way. And the 'French Speaking Normans' is not only completely incorrect but also using the same anachronism that you actually falsely accuse me of, you idiotic fool.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?
British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

I do not need a lecture from you on the complexities of Irish history - I'm already well aware of it. However I would like to point out that the idea of a nation, and nationalism, was not in place during the Viking invasion of the island, but the sustained British colonisation of Ireland and the eventual arrival of British and Irish Nationalism is the main factor in modern identity-formation on these shores, and the subjugation most relevant to a debate about poppies.

Britain as a placename, or a formulation of it, was used first in the 4th Century by the way. And the 'French Speaking Normans' is not only completely incorrect but also using the same anachronism that you actually falsely accuse me of, you idiotic fool.
Completely incorrect,you think? So what language, in your opinion, did the Norman nobility speak at the time they arrived in Ireland? And idiotic fool is a tautology, btw.  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 11:37:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?
British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

I do not need a lecture from you on the complexities of Irish history - I'm already well aware of it. However I would like to point out that the idea of a nation, and nationalism, was not in place during the Viking invasion of the island, but the sustained British colonisation of Ireland and the eventual arrival of British and Irish Nationalism is the main factor in modern identity-formation on these shores, and the subjugation most relevant to a debate about poppies.

Britain as a placename, or a formulation of it, was used first in the 4th Century by the way. And the 'French Speaking Normans' is not only completely incorrect but also using the same anachronism that you actually falsely accuse me of, you idiotic fool.
Completely incorrect,you think? So what language, in your opinion, did the Norman nobility speak at the time they arrived in Ireland? And idiotic fool is a tautology, btw.  ;)

It isn't a tautology: I know this because you can be foolish and idiotic at the same time.

It is completely incorrect because Anglo-Norman (which isn't 'French', and wasn't even 'Old French') was the language of the educated 'nobility' (and therefore Strongbow), and everybody from Malin Head to Mizen Head knows that a large part of the invading forces were Welsh, anyway. You can look this up, if you wish

Your mistake and subsequent backtracking reveals a lot about your view of history/humanity, by the way - it seems the language of the commanders means more than that of the subalterns.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 12, 2013, 12:19:09 AM
QuoteAnd idiotic fool is a tautology, btw.

You are bit of a tautologist yourself, Myles Na G.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Never beat the deeler on November 12, 2013, 12:57:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.

I observed a minute's silence yesterday at 11am for all the poor young fellas sent off to war to die, and strangely enough I don't feel any shame for having done so.

I didn't buy a poppy or 'contribute to the British war machine' if you want to put it like that.

As for apologising to those people - I don't know what 'they' you are referring to, but it can't be the 'those Irish people' in your previous sentence??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 08:40:52 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 07:06:28 PM
QuoteAnyway, if enough people really cared about this lack of an "Irish dimension or sensitivities" they'd vote with their feet.

What's the alternative? Anyway only Sainsbury's have coffee bags.
Thats exactly the point my friend was making...we don't care we have become more British than Finchley.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OakleafCounty on November 12, 2013, 09:14:58 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 08:40:52 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 07:06:28 PM
QuoteAnyway, if enough people really cared about this lack of an "Irish dimension or sensitivities" they'd vote with their feet.

What's the alternative? Anyway only Sainsbury's have coffee bags.
Thats exactly the point my friend was making...we don't care we have become more British than Finchley.

Is that you Ruairí O'Braidagh?

I'd say there's more people in the Republic watching X-Factor and Emmerdale than the north. What about all the yank tv programmes. Is embracing American culture a problem too?

And what if I buy my meat from a unionist family butchers? Am I embracing Bristishness less than if you buy it in Sainsburies?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 09:35:07 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on November 12, 2013, 09:14:58 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 08:40:52 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 07:06:28 PM
QuoteAnyway, if enough people really cared about this lack of an "Irish dimension or sensitivities" they'd vote with their feet.

What's the alternative? Anyway only Sainsbury's have coffee bags.
Thats exactly the point my friend was making...we don't care we have become more British than Finchley.

Is that you Ruairí O'Braidagh?

I'd say there's more people in the Republic watching X-Factor and Emmerdale than the north. What about all the yank tv programmes. Is embracing American culture a problem too?

And what if I buy my meat from a unionist family butchers? Am I embracing Bristishness less than if you buy it in Sainsburies?
The answer to all your questions is yes we all, myself included are guilty (except I don't watch reality TV), the point is the peace process much beloved of the Shinners has delivered a stronger link with Britain and put unity out of site. The TV programmes etc are just a sympthom of underlying apathy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto. Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way). These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics). In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2013, 03:53:15 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.
Speak for yourself you plaidhc.
I'm not oppressed - apart from having to pay for Anglo Irish/Fitzpatrick/Fingleton/Quinn/Ronan/Dunne and all the other snuts- but that doesnt alter the fact that for 750 - 800 years soldiers of the English/British rulers imposed terror on the majority of the Irish people.
And if I want to remember all the Irish who died in wars our Government has a special commemoration day sometime  every July so I can take part  in or watch that .
Anyway the Irish who died fighting in the Brit army were all volunteers ( unliike the Scots/English/Welsh conscripts) so why should I feel sorry for them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 12, 2013, 04:38:55 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 08:38:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2013, 08:20:11 PM
QuoteBritish? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

Life did not evolve initially in Ireland, as far as I understand (of course saying it evolved at all is probably an insult to the PUL community). So people have always come  to Ireland. These people generally made their home here, the Normans become more Irish than the Irish themselves. The British, a section of them, do not make their home here but continue to describe themselves as British and seek to have British rule. So the narrative is fine.
So you think the average Ulster Prod commutes here from England? Of course they've made this place their home. Many do describe themselves as Irish and many more would do so, were it not for the fact that the definition of Irish over the years has become synonymous with a narrow Gaelic, Catholic nationalism. That they identify themselves as and with the British is not surprising given their history. That doesn't mean they don't belong here. They've been here long enough to be classed as natives, unless you plan on telling white Americans, Australians and Canadians that they don't belong in their respective countries either.

By whom? They never at any time wished to be classed so themselves. They discriminated against the natives, stole their land, murdered them, legislated against their religion and language in an attempt to destroy both and treated them as third class citizens in  their own country, all the time standing apart, which they still do to this day, looking down upon the indigenous people. Maybe they'd feel more comfortable in the cloud cuckoo land your brain resides in  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: winsamsoon on November 12, 2013, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto. Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way). These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics). In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.

A few points just, Unionism is dependent on the union so they are never going to give up on issues of flags etc there is no compromise on these issues for them. yet they are changing whether they like it or nopt(city hall for example)They believe its a british state and these symbols etc are symbolic of Britain so they stay. This has always been the case and always will. whilst i acknowledge what your saying in your post i would say that SF are completly aware of this shift but are willing to accept it and if you like be the bigger person in the strategical political battle.  So in essence its a mean to an end and there is a bigger picture.To the international world its Nationalism that comes across as the group willing to compromise. Take for example the HAAS talks at present i am sure there are a lot of issues the Nationalists are willing to compromise on but unionists are standing firm. Nationalists acknowledge that a shared future must include all sections of the community, their culture has already been eroded over the years in many ways and thus they are gaining the basic rights that would exist in a normal society inclusive of all. Unionism is however the spoilt brat in the debate, making the transition from a society where they controlled all and had the upper hand over the fenians to now realising they can no longer bully. They still though cannot religuish the union as it makes up their core ideological principles they also cannot accept change and are not pragmatic. Theres a bit of old Maggie Thatcher in them. Sf has taken it a wider scale and the International community now looking in know what is going on, the issues of last summer are in a sick way positive for nationalists as they highlight just how the Unionists aren't willing to compromise. But when the eyes of the world are on them and pressure on Britain there are changes they will be forced to accept. So i would say SF are very mush so aware of the shift but to a certain axtent it is tactical. Regarding the embracing of the Parliament i can't see that happening anytime soon as thwere are no real gains from it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 12, 2013, 05:04:46 PM
Taigs, I command you to stop coming forward.

(http://cloudsofvagueness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/King_Canute_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 12, 2013, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto.
They should be more secure. Recent events would indicate otherwise.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way).
Has there been a change in strategy from British retailers in NI? When did this happen? Where are they flying the Union flag? (If I don't know these things, it's much harder to be offended by them.)

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics).
A case of 'money talks'.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.
Why is it "in fairness" to SF that they haven't taken seats in Westminster? They still run for elections to the British parliament. They still take their offices in London and their expenses. Earlier this year they even attended the Westminster Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2013, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 11:37:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?
British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

I do not need a lecture from you on the complexities of Irish history - I'm already well aware of it. However I would like to point out that the idea of a nation, and nationalism, was not in place during the Viking invasion of the island, but the sustained British colonisation of Ireland and the eventual arrival of British and Irish Nationalism is the main factor in modern identity-formation on these shores, and the subjugation most relevant to a debate about poppies.

Britain as a placename, or a formulation of it, was used first in the 4th Century by the way. And the 'French Speaking Normans' is not only completely incorrect but also using the same anachronism that you actually falsely accuse me of, you idiotic fool.
Completely incorrect,you think? So what language, in your opinion, did the Norman nobility speak at the time they arrived in Ireland? And idiotic fool is a tautology, btw.  ;)

It isn't a tautology: I know this because you can be foolish and idiotic at the same time.

It is completely incorrect because Anglo-Norman (which isn't 'French', and wasn't even 'Old French') was the language of the educated 'nobility' (and therefore Strongbow), and everybody from Malin Head to Mizen Head knows that a large part of the invading forces were Welsh, anyway. You can look this up, if you wish

Your mistake and subsequent backtracking reveals a lot about your view of history/humanity, by the way - it seems the language of the commanders means more than that of the subalterns.
That's what makes it a tautology, you twit.

idiot
ˈɪdɪət/
noun informal
1.
a stupid person.
synonyms:   fool, ass, halfwit, nincompoop, blockhead, dunce, dolt, ignoramus, cretin, imbecile, dullard, moron, simpleton, clod;

And who's backtracking? I ask you to put forward your opinion and you accuse me of backtracking on my own!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stibhan on November 12, 2013, 06:30:56 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2013, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 11:37:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?
British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

I do not need a lecture from you on the complexities of Irish history - I'm already well aware of it. However I would like to point out that the idea of a nation, and nationalism, was not in place during the Viking invasion of the island, but the sustained British colonisation of Ireland and the eventual arrival of British and Irish Nationalism is the main factor in modern identity-formation on these shores, and the subjugation most relevant to a debate about poppies.

Britain as a placename, or a formulation of it, was used first in the 4th Century by the way. And the 'French Speaking Normans' is not only completely incorrect but also using the same anachronism that you actually falsely accuse me of, you idiotic fool.
Completely incorrect,you think? So what language, in your opinion, did the Norman nobility speak at the time they arrived in Ireland? And idiotic fool is a tautology, btw.  ;)

It isn't a tautology: I know this because you can be foolish and idiotic at the same time.

It is completely incorrect because Anglo-Norman (which isn't 'French', and wasn't even 'Old French') was the language of the educated 'nobility' (and therefore Strongbow), and everybody from Malin Head to Mizen Head knows that a large part of the invading forces were Welsh, anyway. You can look this up, if you wish

Your mistake and subsequent backtracking reveals a lot about your view of history/humanity, by the way - it seems the language of the commanders means more than that of the subalterns.
That's what makes it a tautology, you twit.

idiot
ˈɪdɪət/
noun informal
1.
a stupid person.
synonyms:   fool, ass, halfwit, nincompoop, blockhead, dunce, dolt, ignoramus, cretin, imbecile, dullard, moron, simpleton, clod;

And who's backtracking? I ask you to put forward your opinion and you accuse me of backtracking on my own!

A snynonym is a word that has similar meaning, not one that has the same meaning. You exhibit the qualities of a fool and an idiot simultaneously - I used both descriptions to leave the reader in no doubt.

You backtracked by nuancing your initial 'Norman invaders' description to 'Norman nobility'. That is not, in any way, the same thing, and certainly much different in terms of the consequences for language acquisition.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2013, 06:58:31 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 12, 2013, 06:30:56 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2013, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 11:37:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 11, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2013, 05:37:34 PM
Just for the record I didn't buy/wear one of those things nor did I attend any remembrance ceremony/service nor did I observe any silence etc.
Shame on those Irish people who did.
I wonder when will they apologise to the McAnespie family, the families of the 14 Bloody Sunday victims, New Lodge massacre, Ballymurphy massacre etc etc. Not to mention the relatives of the million Iraquis killed in Bush's immoral "war" for cheap oil or all the poor Afghans or..... and on and on the list goes....
I also wonder when will Robinson and Nesbitt follow their Queen's example and also reciprocate Kenny/Gilmore by laying a wreath at the Garden of Remembrance in honour of our National heroes who fought back against 750 years of foreign imposed terror.
Truly, we are the most wretched, the most oppressed, the most hard-done by people on the face of God's green earth.

This is a crude rehashing of the M.O.P.E. syndrome theory posited by Professor Liam Kennedy, who initially posited that Irish people are unable to see their oppression in the wider context of world affairs. Therefore the very fact that Rossfan mentioned the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts renders your basic paraphrasing of the M.O.P.E. argument completely childish and non-applicable.
Childish is someone who can 'posit', without a hint of parody,  the theory that he is oppressed because of something that happened 750 years ago.

I don't think he did that - he said that there was '750 years of foreign imposed terror'. This more or less references a sustained British approach to intervening, often violently, in Irish affairs. Surely even with the recent revelations about British Security Force terror squads, this can't be something new to you?
British? The first invaders during that period would have been French speaking Normans, surely. And why draw a line at that point? Why not go back a bit further and include the Vikings, who terrorised and colonised for a few centuries before that. Doesn't fit the convenient narrative, though, does it?

I do not need a lecture from you on the complexities of Irish history - I'm already well aware of it. However I would like to point out that the idea of a nation, and nationalism, was not in place during the Viking invasion of the island, but the sustained British colonisation of Ireland and the eventual arrival of British and Irish Nationalism is the main factor in modern identity-formation on these shores, and the subjugation most relevant to a debate about poppies.

Britain as a placename, or a formulation of it, was used first in the 4th Century by the way. And the 'French Speaking Normans' is not only completely incorrect but also using the same anachronism that you actually falsely accuse me of, you idiotic fool.
Completely incorrect,you think? So what language, in your opinion, did the Norman nobility speak at the time they arrived in Ireland? And idiotic fool is a tautology, btw.  ;)

It isn't a tautology: I know this because you can be foolish and idiotic at the same time.

It is completely incorrect because Anglo-Norman (which isn't 'French', and wasn't even 'Old French') was the language of the educated 'nobility' (and therefore Strongbow), and everybody from Malin Head to Mizen Head knows that a large part of the invading forces were Welsh, anyway. You can look this up, if you wish

Your mistake and subsequent backtracking reveals a lot about your view of history/humanity, by the way - it seems the language of the commanders means more than that of the subalterns.
That's what makes it a tautology, you twit.

idiot
ˈɪdɪət/
noun informal
1.
a stupid person.
synonyms:   fool, ass, halfwit, nincompoop, blockhead, dunce, dolt, ignoramus, cretin, imbecile, dullard, moron, simpleton, clod;

And who's backtracking? I ask you to put forward your opinion and you accuse me of backtracking on my own!

A snynonym is a word that has similar meaning, not one that has the same meaning. You exhibit the qualities of a fool and an idiot simultaneously - I used both descriptions to leave the reader in no doubt.

You backtracked by nuancing your initial 'Norman invaders' description to 'Norman nobility'. That is not, in any way, the same thing, and certainly much different in terms of the consequences for language acquisition.
Next you'll be telling me that 'nuancing' and 'backtracking' are synonyms. Put the shovel down and walk away slowly...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stibhan on November 12, 2013, 07:42:28 PM
I'm really bored of this, Myles, seeing as you fail to address any of the major points that I make and instead focus on a completely subjective argument about the difference between a fool and an idiot (without protesting at being called either).

If you want me I'll be laughing at the mascots observing Remembrance Day impeccably.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2013, 07:48:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto. Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way). These are things that are small but are evident
of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics). In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.

I totally agree with all of this. And I'm totally sick and tired of all the PC bullsh@t that we have to put up with nowadays. We have been led sleep walking into red/white and blue future. I wouldn't go down the dissident path but I think we need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 12, 2013, 08:00:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2013, 07:48:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto. Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way). These are things that are small but are evident
of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics). In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.

I totally agree with all of this. And I'm totally sick and tired of all the PC bullsh@t that we have to put up with nowadays. We have been led sleep walking into red/white and blue future. I wouldn't go down the dissident path but I think we need to wake up and smell the coffee.

+1. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Shinners took their seats in Westminster, they've dumped most of their other principles. I don't agree with the methods of the dissidents, but I can understand their anger at what is being allowed to happen in this shithole failed statelet ... and don't get me started on that farce up in Stormont  >:(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: give her dixie on November 12, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto. Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way). These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics). In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.

Would agree with you there all right. The re branding and acceptance of Derry city as Derrylondonderry and UK City of culture is a prime example. Don't bet against the Shinners taking their seats in Westminister as there is a pay rise on the cards for MP's.......
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2013, 08:30:06 PM
Quote from: stibhan on November 12, 2013, 07:42:28 PM
I'm really bored of this, Myles, seeing as you fail to address any of the major points that I make and instead focus on a completely subjective argument about the difference between a fool and an idiot (without protesting at being called either).

If you want me I'll be laughing at the mascots observing Remembrance Day impeccably.
I was quite happy to engage with you up until you leapt on to your high horse and started throwing out juvenile insults, at which point I became bored very quickly. So we have that in common, if nothing else.

Actually, I agree with you about the mascots too. Very droll. Or drole, as the Normans might've said.  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 12, 2013, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on November 12, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto. Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way). These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics). In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.

Would agree with you there all right. The re branding and acceptance of Derry city as Derrylondonderry and UK City of culture is a prime example. Don't bet against the Shinners taking their seats in Westminister as there is a pay rise on the cards for MP's.......

Exactly.

Just because you do not support all this UK city of culture crap you are being targeted as an outcast or as someone who does not look to the future.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2013, 07:51:39 AM
QuoteITV news presenter hits back after abuse for not wearing poppy

Charlene White faced racist and sexist abuse which, she said, acted against all the goals that the fallen soldiers fought for

Shane Hickey
theguardian.com, Wednesday 13 November 2013 01.25 GMT (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/charlene-white-itv-news-presenter-remembrance-day-poppy?CMP=twt_gu)

An ITV news presenter who has been subject to racist and sexist abuse for her decision not to wear a Remembrance Day poppy said she made her decision in order to be "neutral and impartial on-screen".

Charlene White, a presenter on ITV News London, received insults on social media after she appeared on screen without the poppy, with many of the jibes focusing on her race.

In a statement on the ITV website, the journalist said she had made the decision not to wear a poppy a number of years ago but the backlash this year had been the worst so far.

She said she supported the armed forces, in which her father and uncle had served, but chose to remain impartial on screen.

"I support and am patron of a number of charities and I am uncomfortable with giving one of those charities more on-screen time than others," she said. "I prefer to be neutral and impartial on screen so that one of those charities doesn't feel less favoured than another. Offscreen in my private life – it's different.

"I wear a red ribbon at the start of December for World Aids Day, a pink ribbon in October during breast cancer awareness month, a badge in April during Bowel Cancer Awareness month, and yes – a poppy on Armistice Day.

"I respect and hold in high esteem those in the armed forces, both my father and my uncle have served in the RAF and the army. Every year I donate to the Poppy Appeal because above all else it is a charity that needs donations, so that it can continue to help support serving and ex-service men and women and their families."

The abuse directed at her on Twitter included racist jibes that her family would not have been able to settle in Britain but for the deaths of soldiers. "Without all those fallen soldiers, Hitler would've taken over Britain and your family would never have been allowed here...," user @alhaurincraig wrote. Another crudely superimposed a picture of a poppy on to an image of the presenter with a banner saying 'Sack the Slag'.

White said the racist and sexist abuse acted against all of the goals that the fallen soldiers had fought for. "The messages of "go back to where you came from" have been interesting to read, as have the 'fat s--g' comments, and the repeated use of the phrase 'black c--t'," she said. "Mostly because it flies in the face of everything that millions of British men and women and those in the Commonwealth have fought for for generations, and continue to fight for: the right to choose, and the right of freedom of speech and expression."

Google has also been the subject of criticism because it used only a small Remembrance Day poppy on its website. Labour MP Gerry Sutcliffe said it was "demeaning not to have something spectacular".

The search engine said it tried to be sensitive in not putting sombre occasions into one of their trademark doodles but instead featuring them in some way on their homepage.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 13, 2013, 09:14:35 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 13, 2013, 09:10:24 AM
Where is this going to end?

According "mistic dixie "when the shinners take their big pay rise when sitting at Westminister. ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 13, 2013, 09:42:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2013, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto.
They should be more secure. Recent events would indicate otherwise.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way).
Has there been a change in strategy from British retailers in NI? When did this happen? Where are they flying the Union flag? (If I don't know these things, it's much harder to be offended by them.)

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics).
A case of 'money talks'.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.
Why is it "in fairness" to SF that they haven't taken seats in Westminster? They still run for elections to the British parliament. They still take their offices in London and their expenses. Earlier this year they even attended the Westminster Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.
On the retailers, it used to be that anything that would place the company on one side or the other was avoided in NI. Not so in recent years. Tesco regularly have point of sale which make claims such as "Britain's biggest discounter", with the liberal use of union flags. Sainsbury's last year festooned with Union flag branded British Paralymics POS, even though most NI paralympians would be on team Ireland. They also still, despite what the may say import most of their food produce from Britain, working with British farmers whilst paying lip service to local producers(but that's a separate issue). That said my point is that the catholic population today quietly accepts this creeping Britishising without protest. Something they would not have done in the past.
It is also disgraceful that any so called nationalist politician would take an oath to the Queen to sit at Westminister a parliament which still institutionalises discrimination against catholics.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Sidney on November 13, 2013, 10:10:04 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1457617_1434965950064789_1759894043_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 13, 2013, 10:11:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2013, 09:42:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2013, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto.
They should be more secure. Recent events would indicate otherwise.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way).
Has there been a change in strategy from British retailers in NI? When did this happen? Where are they flying the Union flag? (If I don't know these things, it's much harder to be offended by them.)

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics).
A case of 'money talks'.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.
Why is it "in fairness" to SF that they haven't taken seats in Westminster? They still run for elections to the British parliament. They still take their offices in London and their expenses. Earlier this year they even attended the Westminster Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.
On the retailers, it used to be that anything that would place the company on one side or the other was avoided in NI. Not so in recent years. Tesco regularly have point of sale which make claims such as "Britain's biggest discounter", with the liberal use of union flags. Sainsbury's last year festooned with Union flag branded British Paralymics POS, even though most NI paralympians would be on team Ireland. They also still, despite what the may say import most of their food produce from Britain, working with British farmers whilst paying lip service to local producers(but that's a separate issue). That said my point is that the catholic population today quietly accepts this creeping Britishising without protest. Something they would not have done in the past.
It is also disgraceful that any so called nationalist politician would take an oath to the Queen to sit at Westminister a parliament which still institutionalises discrimination against catholics.

Simply not true. Sainsburys, Tescos and Asda are making huge strides in dealing with the local companies. They are demanding on their requirements, but that's no different than the UK. Sainburys alone introduced something like 180 new NI lines this year. Some of the problems the local producers are hitting is meeting demand and Sainburys are trying to work along with companies to meet this. Plus I see plenty of "Irish Beef" signs and "Irish Pork" signs as well. But I wouldn'y expect Unionists to start complaining that this is an erosion of their Britishness. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2013, 10:18:06 AM
Quote from: Sidney on November 13, 2013, 10:10:04 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1457617_1434965950064789_1759894043_n.jpg)

Fair play to James McClean, dignified response.

(The thread is hilarious (https://twitter.com/Alan9208/status/400394779202437120/photo/1))
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 13, 2013, 11:59:41 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2013, 07:51:39 AM
QuoteITV news presenter hits back after abuse for not wearing poppy
Google has also been the subject of criticism because it used only a small Remembrance Day poppy on its website. Labour MP Gerry Sutcliffe said it was "demeaning not to have something spectacular".

The search engine said it tried to be sensitive in not putting sombre occasions into one of their trademark doodles but instead featuring them in some way on their homepage.

That's just outstanding. What do they want? Fireworks?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 13, 2013, 01:38:22 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 13, 2013, 10:11:13 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2013, 09:42:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2013, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto.
They should be more secure. Recent events would indicate otherwise.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way).
Has there been a change in strategy from British retailers in NI? When did this happen? Where are they flying the Union flag? (If I don't know these things, it's much harder to be offended by them.)

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics).
A case of 'money talks'.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.
Why is it "in fairness" to SF that they haven't taken seats in Westminster? They still run for elections to the British parliament. They still take their offices in London and their expenses. Earlier this year they even attended the Westminster Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.
On the retailers, it used to be that anything that would place the company on one side or the other was avoided in NI. Not so in recent years. Tesco regularly have point of sale which make claims such as "Britain's biggest discounter", with the liberal use of union flags. Sainsbury's last year festooned with Union flag branded British Paralymics POS, even though most NI paralympians would be on team Ireland. They also still, despite what the may say import most of their food produce from Britain, working with British farmers whilst paying lip service to local producers(but that's a separate issue). That said my point is that the catholic population today quietly accepts this creeping Britishising without protest. Something they would not have done in the past.
It is also disgraceful that any so called nationalist politician would take an oath to the Queen to sit at Westminister a parliament which still institutionalises discrimination against catholics.

Simply not true. Sainsburys, Tescos and Asda are making huge strides in dealing with the local companies. They are demanding on their requirements, but that's no different than the UK. Sainburys alone introduced something like 180 new NI lines this year. Some of the problems the local producers are hitting is meeting demand and Sainburys are trying to work along with companies to meet this. Plus I see plenty of "Irish Beef" signs and "Irish Pork" signs as well. But I wouldn'y expect Unionists to start complaining that this is an erosion of their Britishness.
Actually I did not mention country of origin pos which I believe to be quite in order.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 13, 2013, 05:56:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2013, 09:42:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2013, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto.
They should be more secure. Recent events would indicate otherwise.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way).
Has there been a change in strategy from British retailers in NI? When did this happen? Where are they flying the Union flag? (If I don't know these things, it's much harder to be offended by them.)

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics).
A case of 'money talks'.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.
Why is it "in fairness" to SF that they haven't taken seats in Westminster? They still run for elections to the British parliament. They still take their offices in London and their expenses. Earlier this year they even attended the Westminster Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.
On the retailers, it used to be that anything that would place the company on one side or the other was avoided in NI. Not so in recent years. Tesco regularly have point of sale which make claims such as "Britain's biggest discounter", with the liberal use of union flags. Sainsbury's last year festooned with Union flag branded British Paralymics POS, even though most NI paralympians would be on team Ireland. They also still, despite what the may say import most of their food produce from Britain, working with British farmers whilst paying lip service to local producers(but that's a separate issue). That said my point is that the catholic population today quietly accepts this creeping Britishising without protest. Something they would not have done in the past.
It is also disgraceful that any so called nationalist politician would take an oath to the Queen to sit at Westminister a parliament which still institutionalises discrimination against catholics.
Sainsbury's were official sponsors for the British Paralympic team - I wouldn't get too upset by that - you feel free to do so.
Incidently, I found this - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/fury-after-tesco-asks-staff-to-give-jubilee-badges-back-28756314.html - After laughing at Campbell, it's worth a read of Fionola Meredith's comment piece at the bottom - "we need to learn not to sweat the small stuff". Indeed.

As for the 'oath' - or the 'affirmation' as I understand the SDLP make - it's words. It's a necessary evil to undertake the job the electorate mandated them to do. But anyway, this is getting waaaaaay off topic.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 13, 2013, 06:31:29 PM
QuoteSainsbury's were official sponsors for the British Paralympic team - I wouldn't get too upset by that - you feel free to do so.

Are you Myles Na G?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2013, 06:59:47 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto. Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way). These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics). In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.

Um, what would be the point of living in some sort of reality-distortion bubble in which the north isn't part of the UK?  It is whether we like it or not. Just because we don't like the idea of it being part of the UK doesn't change the fact that it is, and I see no harm in accepting that it is.  Saying "I accept that the north is part of the UK" is not the same thing as saying "I want the north to be part of the UK."  It's possible to recognise the existence of the status quo without supporting it.

As for "integral", that's a matter of semantics. The UK is a fairly loosely-connected entity.  You've got a separate legal system in Scotland that's distinct from England and Wales, a separate education system, a devolved parliament in Scotland and assemblies in Wales and the north.  It's a "composite" country which is unusual today but was a lot more common in the early twentieth century.  You had Austria-Hungary which was a massive multinational state with god-knows-how-many languages and nationalities included.  The Ottoman Empire reached right into the Balkans. Germany had only just emerged under Bismark as a union of dozens of principalities with a big chunk of Prussia. 

The UK is something of an anachronism in today's world but it worked well for Britain (with England getting the best deal), not so much for Ireland.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2013, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2013, 06:59:47 PM
The UK is something of an anachronism in today's world but it worked well for Britain (with England getting the best deal), not so much for Ireland.

Understatement of the decade.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 13, 2013, 08:28:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2013, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2013, 06:59:47 PM
The UK is something of an anachronism in today's world but it worked well for Britain (with England getting the best deal), not so much for Ireland.

Understatement of the decade.
Economically speaking, does the Irish economy not make a bit of cash from UK customers?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 13, 2013, 08:36:53 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 13, 2013, 08:28:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2013, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2013, 06:59:47 PM
The UK is something of an anachronism in today's world but it worked well for Britain (with England getting the best deal), not so much for Ireland.

Understatement of the decade.
Economically speaking, does the Irish economy not make a bit of cash from UK customers?

I believe it's biggest export market, and also biggest import market, so does the British economy not make a bit of cash from Irish customers?
And lest we forget (to coin a phrase), during the famine the British generously insisted in helping the Irish export drive by taking all its grain, rather than let some of it to be used to feed the starving ... and your point is?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 13, 2013, 08:51:41 PM
Ireland is one of the rare places the UK has a trade surplus with, as their shops ship over so much crap here, so they should be grateful.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2013, 10:34:35 PM
I believe his point is that both places benefit from trade.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:40:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 13, 2013, 05:56:38 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2013, 09:42:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2013, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto.
They should be more secure. Recent events would indicate otherwise.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way).
Has there been a change in strategy from British retailers in NI? When did this happen? Where are they flying the Union flag? (If I don't know these things, it's much harder to be offended by them.)

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics).
A case of 'money talks'.

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.
Why is it "in fairness" to SF that they haven't taken seats in Westminster? They still run for elections to the British parliament. They still take their offices in London and their expenses. Earlier this year they even attended the Westminster Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.
On the retailers, it used to be that anything that would place the company on one side or the other was avoided in NI. Not so in recent years. Tesco regularly have point of sale which make claims such as "Britain's biggest discounter", with the liberal use of union flags. Sainsbury's last year festooned with Union flag branded British Paralymics POS, even though most NI paralympians would be on team Ireland. They also still, despite what the may say import most of their food produce from Britain, working with British farmers whilst paying lip service to local producers(but that's a separate issue). That said my point is that the catholic population today quietly accepts this creeping Britishising without protest. Something they would not have done in the past.
It is also disgraceful that any so called nationalist politician would take an oath to the Queen to sit at Westminister a parliament which still institutionalises discrimination against catholics.
Sainsbury's were official sponsors for the British Paralympic team - I wouldn't get too upset by that - you feel free to do so.
Incidently, I found this - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/fury-after-tesco-asks-staff-to-give-jubilee-badges-back-28756314.html - After laughing at Campbell, it's worth a read of Fionola Meredith's comment piece at the bottom - "we need to learn not to sweat the small stuff". Indeed.

As for the 'oath' - or the 'affirmation' as I understand the SDLP make - it's words. It's a necessary evil to undertake the job the electorate mandated them to do. But anyway, this is getting waaaaaay off topic.
Let me make it clear the point I am making is that we now have all come to accept this, I am actually lamenting the death of nationalism and our acceptance of Britishness...these i am showing only as examples.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 13, 2013, 06:59:47 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
What I mean is that rather than deliver us a road to unity the peace process has put it a long ways off, if it will ever happen. There is no denying that we are in a far better place than we were before the cease fires. However rather than unionism embracing an Irish dimension or compromising on symbolism and flags etc... they have become more entrenched and secure in the knowledge that the Union is safe and they hold a veto. Nationalist on the otherhand have embraced this whole notion of Northern Ireland as a UK region, we seem to have embraced our "Britishness" and are tolerant of British companies now treating NI branches as they do "mainland" branches. We no longer object to the flying of the Union flag and other really British point of sale used by these retailers (I'm not taliking about tea bags and that wasn't me any way). These are things that are small but are evident of a shift that I don't think SF anticipated. The acceptance of Derry as UK City of culture is another example of nationalists tacitly accepting that NI is an integral part of the UK. Does it matter? I would say from where I stand probably not to most nationalists ( more accurately catholics). In fairness to SF they have not embraced the mother of parliaments with the gusto of the SDLP, but surely only a matter of time. All the compromises seem to be coming from nationalists. The change is maybe some what intangible but there non the less.

Um, what would be the point of living in some sort of reality-distortion bubble in which the north isn't part of the UK?  It is whether we like it or not. Just because we don't like the idea of it being part of the UK doesn't change the fact that it is, and I see no harm in accepting that it is.  Saying "I accept that the north is part of the UK" is not the same thing as saying "I want the north to be part of the UK."  It's possible to recognise the existence of the status quo without supporting it.

As for "integral", that's a matter of semantics. The UK is a fairly loosely-connected entity.  You've got a separate legal system in Scotland that's distinct from England and Wales, a separate education system, a devolved parliament in Scotland and assemblies in Wales and the north.  It's a "composite" country which is unusual today but was a lot more common in the early twentieth century.  You had Austria-Hungary which was a massive multinational state with god-knows-how-many languages and nationalities included.  The Ottoman Empire reached right into the Balkans. Germany had only just emerged under Bismark as a union of dozens of principalities with a big chunk of Prussia. 

The UK is something of an anachronism in today's world but it worked well for Britain (with England getting the best deal), not so much for Ireland.
Look you are missing the point. I am not denying that NI is a part of the UK. As part of the UK it can still be different and reflect the national allegience of both communities. I am saying that the acceptance of all this British symbolism by catholics is evedence that Peter Robinson is right nationalism is dead and we are all embracing Britishness.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 14, 2013, 08:48:51 AM
Back to the thread, I'd mentioned unionist commentator and journalist Alex Kane not wearing a poppy on BBC NI last week.  He has explained that he only wears a poppy on Remembrance Sunday and the 11th November itself.  A bit of sense breaking out there?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:50:03 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 14, 2013, 08:48:51 AM
Back to the thread, I'd mentioned unionist commentator and journalist Alex Kane not wearing a poppy on BBC NI last week.  He has explained that he only wears a poppy on Remembrance Sunday and the 11th November itself.  A bit of sense breaking out there?
I wouldn't always agree with Alex but he speaks a lot of sense at times.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OakleafCounty on November 14, 2013, 09:55:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
Look you are missing the point. I am not denying that NI is a part of the UK. As part of the UK it can still be different and reflect the national allegience of both communities. I am saying that the acceptance of all this British symbolism by catholics is evedence that Peter Robinson is right nationalism is dead and we are all embracing Britishness.

That's complete balls. Do you not remember a year ago when the union flag was taken down from Belfast City Hall? If you don't like British symbolism in retail stores then vote with your feet. I for one have never went back to Dunelm Mill since I seen a union jack range of cushions but at the same time I buy natural yoghurt from Tesco every week which has a small union jack on the packaging reflecting that it was produced in Britain. I make that compromise because I like natural yoghurt and it's cheap. Nationalism is far from dead, there are plenty of aspects of NI life that refect the nationalist side. The GAA being a major one!

The difference between this generation of NI catholics and previous ones is that we have complete freedom. Freedom to be Irish, to vote as equals, to express our opinions, to pursue the careers we want, to buy land or a house.

Whether you like or not there is a British presence in the six counties which won't change much with a political United Ireland if it ever happens. There is also a big British cultural presence in the Republic. A couple of weeks ago I was in a pub in Sligo that could just as easily have been a pub in Aberdeen. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on November 14, 2013, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on November 14, 2013, 09:55:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
Look you are missing the point. I am not denying that NI is a part of the UK. As part of the UK it can still be different and reflect the national allegience of both communities. I am saying that the acceptance of all this British symbolism by catholics is evedence that Peter Robinson is right nationalism is dead and we are all embracing Britishness.

That's complete balls. Do you not remember a year ago when the union flag was taken down from Belfast City Hall? If you don't like British symbolism in retail stores then vote with your feet. I for one have never went back to Dunelm Mill since I seen a union jack range of cushions but at the same time I buy natural yoghurt from Tesco every week which has a small union jack on the packaging reflecting that it was produced in Britain. I make that compromise because I like natural yoghurt and it's cheap. Nationalism is far from dead, there are plenty of aspects of NI life that refect the nationalist side. The GAA being a major one!

The difference between this generation of NI catholics and previous ones is that we have complete freedom. Freedom to be Irish, to vote as equals, to express our opinions, to pursue the careers we want, to buy land or a house.

Whether you like or not there is a British presence in the six counties which won't change much with a political United Ireland if it ever happens. There is also a big British cultural presence in the Republic. A couple of weeks ago I was in a pub in Sligo that could just as easily have been a pub in Aberdeen.
The couple that started and still own Dunelm Mill are from Cardonagh Co Donegal to my knowledge.  Started off small, and  our a real success story.  One of very few if not the only home furnishing outlet that were expanding and opening new outlets during the recession.  I think I would forgive them the Union Jack cushions, most likely meant for stores in England etc.

Apologies for the detour, carry on:)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 10:19:20 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on November 14, 2013, 09:55:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
Look you are missing the point. I am not denying that NI is a part of the UK. As part of the UK it can still be different and reflect the national allegience of both communities. I am saying that the acceptance of all this British symbolism by catholics is evedence that Peter Robinson is right nationalism is dead and we are all embracing Britishness.

That's complete balls. Do you not remember a year ago when the union flag was taken down from Belfast City Hall? If you don't like British symbolism in retail stores then vote with your feet. I for one have never went back to Dunelm Mill since I seen a union jack range of cushions but at the same time I buy natural yoghurt from Tesco every week which has a small union jack on the packaging reflecting that it was produced in Britain. I make that compromise because I like natural yoghurt and it's cheap. Nationalism is far from dead, there are plenty of aspects of NI life that refect the nationalist side. The GAA being a major one!

The difference between this generation of NI catholics and previous ones is that we have complete freedom. Freedom to be Irish, to vote as equals, to express our opinions, to pursue the careers we want, to buy land or a house.

Whether you like or not there is a British presence in the six counties which won't change much with a political United Ireland if it ever happens. There is also a big British cultural presence in the Republic. A couple of weeks ago I was in a pub in Sligo that could just as easily have been a pub in Aberdeen.
Balls is it? take your head out of the sand, this is nothing to do with culture it is yours and my acceptance that we are as British as Finchley, there will be no united Ireland ever as the Catholic majority has abandoned nationalism...lead by the Shinners I might add.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: orangeman on November 14, 2013, 10:59:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

How did he react to that ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 14, 2013, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

Nothing more Irish than using the term 'bogball'. You certainly won't find the English using it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OakleafCounty on November 14, 2013, 11:13:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 10:19:20 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on November 14, 2013, 09:55:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
Look you are missing the point. I am not denying that NI is a part of the UK. As part of the UK it can still be different and reflect the national allegience of both communities. I am saying that the acceptance of all this British symbolism by catholics is evedence that Peter Robinson is right nationalism is dead and we are all embracing Britishness.

That's complete balls. Do you not remember a year ago when the union flag was taken down from Belfast City Hall? If you don't like British symbolism in retail stores then vote with your feet. I for one have never went back to Dunelm Mill since I seen a union jack range of cushions but at the same time I buy natural yoghurt from Tesco every week which has a small union jack on the packaging reflecting that it was produced in Britain. I make that compromise because I like natural yoghurt and it's cheap. Nationalism is far from dead, there are plenty of aspects of NI life that refect the nationalist side. The GAA being a major one!

The difference between this generation of NI catholics and previous ones is that we have complete freedom. Freedom to be Irish, to vote as equals, to express our opinions, to pursue the careers we want, to buy land or a house.

Whether you like or not there is a British presence in the six counties which won't change much with a political United Ireland if it ever happens. There is also a big British cultural presence in the Republic. A couple of weeks ago I was in a pub in Sligo that could just as easily have been a pub in Aberdeen.
Balls is it? take your head out of the sand, this is nothing to do with culture it is yours and my acceptance that we are as British as Finchley, there will be no united Ireland ever as the Catholic majority has abandoned nationalism...lead by the Shinners I might add.

So we're accepting Britishness even though we carry Irish passports, support GAA and other cultural activities. But because we're not protesting at the hugely successful city of culture or Sainsburies doing whatever it is there meant to have done we're accepting Britishness. Do you expect people to live their lives thinking of nothing other than a United Ireland. The fact is that even if there is a UI there will still be an Orange Order and the Union Flag will still fly in unionist estates.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OakleafCounty on November 14, 2013, 11:18:19 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 14, 2013, 10:02:09 AM
The couple that started and still own Dunelm Mill are from Cardonagh Co Donegal to my knowledge.  Started off small, and  our a real success story.  One of very few if not the only home furnishing outlet that were expanding and opening new outlets during the recession.  I think I would forgive them the Union Jack cushions, most likely meant for stores in England etc.

Apologies for the detour, carry on:)

If there from Carn they should have the common sense not to advertise their 'Union Jack Range' over the tanoy in their Buncrana Road store. A bit of common sense like.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:42:44 AM
Quote from: orangeman on November 14, 2013, 10:59:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

How did he react to that ?

He just signed up for an beginners class in Gaeilge at an cultúrlann
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?

In my view you differentiate peoples by language,culture and ethnicity. On two of them he is just the same as our friends across the water. I dont know enough about his lineage to comment on the other.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 14, 2013, 12:26:57 PM
There's an awful lot of Irish dancing in Great Britain. The dancers also speak English like we do. Does that make them Irish?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2013, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?

In my view you differentiate peoples by language,culture and ethnicity. On two of them he is just the same as our friends across the water. I dont know enough about his lineage to comment on the other.
Your views illustrate the narrowness and exclusivity of Irish republicanism. In so doing, you also illustrate why it has never achieved any of its objectives and never will. So you have to like Gaelic sports to be a real Irishman / woman? Does the same apply to Australians and their code of football? Are all those Aussie rugby and cricket players just great big frauds? And we have to enjoy traditional music too if we want to be considered Irish? And speak Irish, you say? Complete rubbish, of course, but typical of tight-arsed republicans. There's a letter held in the Kilmainham museum written by Pearse. In it, he decries W.B Yeats as a 3rd rate poet. What was it about Yeats that annoyed him? The fact that he wrote in English rather than Irish. Mad, mad, mad.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 14, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2013, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?

In my view you differentiate peoples by language,culture and ethnicity. On two of them he is just the same as our friends across the water. I dont know enough about his lineage to comment on the other.
Your views illustrate the narrowness and exclusivity of Irish republicanism. In so doing, you also illustrate why it has never achieved any of its objectives and never will. So you have to like Gaelic sports to be a real Irishman / woman? Does the same apply to Australians and their code of football? Are all those Aussie rugby and cricket players just great big frauds? And we have to enjoy traditional music too if we want to be considered Irish? And speak Irish, you say? Complete rubbish, of course, but typical of tight-arsed republicans. There's a letter held in the Kilmainham museum written by Pearse. In it, he decries W.B Yeats as a 3rd rate poet. What was it about Yeats that annoyed him? The fact that he wrote in English rather than Irish. Mad, mad, mad.

;D So your using his view of national republicanism to represent all Irish Republicanism. And your complaining about his narrowness.

You couldn't make it up!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2013, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?

In my view you differentiate peoples by language,culture and ethnicity. On two of them he is just the same as our friends across the water. I dont know enough about his lineage to comment on the other.

Here is a Japanese set dancing group: (http://www.setdancingnews.net/news/photos/onews13/captains.jpg)

Does that tick the cultural box making them 1/3 Irish?
Dá mbéach an teanga ar eolas acú freisin, an mbéach a dó as an trí acú ansin? (apologies to Gaeilgóirs - I am very rusty these days)

I don't think Irishness or any other nationality is so conveniently defined.

If a republican wants to support an English soccer team, so what? If he chooses to read English red-tops, I won't be joining him but it is his choice as a free man. If the Irish struggle was for only one thing, in my opinion, it is freedom. Not different restrictions.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: glens abu on November 14, 2013, 12:45:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?

In my view you differentiate peoples by language,culture and ethnicity. On two of them he is just the same as our friends across the water. I dont know enough about his lineage to comment on the other.

Here is a Japanese set dancing group: (http://www.setdancingnews.net/news/photos/onews13/captains.jpg)

Does that tick the cultural box making them 1/3 Irish?
Dá mbéach an teanga ar eolas acú freisin, an mbéach a dó as an trí acú ansin? (apologies to Gaeilgóirs - I am very rusty these days)

I don't think Irishness or any other nationality is so conveniently defined.

If a republican wants to support an English soccer team, so what? If he chooses to read English red-tops, I won't be joining him but it is his choice as a free man. If the Irish struggle was for only one thing, in my opinion, it is freedom. Not different restrictions.

+1
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Knock Yer Mucker In on November 14, 2013, 12:51:43 PM
It might be best to try and define what is Irish culture and separate it from republican, socialism etc politics
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 14, 2013, 12:26:57 PM
There's an awful lot of Irish dancing in Great Britain. The dancers also speak English like we do. Does that make them Irish?

Simple answer.No definately not. Youd need to tick another few boxes, then I might give them the "of irish descent" label.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ringfort on November 14, 2013, 01:19:43 PM
I don't think the lad was saying you have to like all aspects of Irish culture - the gah, dancing, trad ceol etc etc - just simply that having a distinct culture is one of the major determinants of nationality.

On the advancing 'Britishness' in NI? I'm not from there myself so wouldn't be 100% qualified to comment but it appears to me in recent years more of an advancing 'northern irishness'. Like its becoming its own distinct identity. Diluted Britishness. Cementing of this new identity I feel is the biggest threat to nationalists all Ireland desires than any solidification of the Union.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 14, 2013, 01:22:03 PM
Rather than something you do or are interested define you as being Irish or not, surely what we are actually talking about are common characteristics of an Irish person. If you display several of these characteristics, you are likely to be an Irish person. If you display some of them, but not others, you may well be Irish. If you display none of them, you could still be Irish but you would be a sort of unique Irish person.

Some characteristics of Irishness

1. Interest in sport. All sport. Even racing flys.
2. Interest in the GAA.
3. Enjoyment of, or interest in, traditional or folk music.
4. Ability to speak a bit of Irish, or understand a bit of Irish.
5. A heightened sense of the ironic, or of sarcasm.
6. A major dash of rogueishness in your character.
etc
etc

Actually that would be an interesting thread. Define the characteristics of an Irish person. Some specific characteristics, like the ability to start a row in an empty room, are largely confined to the province of Ulster :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 01:33:59 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2013, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?

In my view you differentiate peoples by language,culture and ethnicity. On two of them he is just the same as our friends across the water. I dont know enough about his lineage to comment on the other.
Your views illustrate the narrowness and exclusivity of Irish republicanism. In so doing, you also illustrate why it has never achieved any of its objectives and never will. So you have to like Gaelic sports to be a real Irishman / woman? Does the same apply to Australians and their code of football? Are all those Aussie rugby and cricket players just great big frauds? And we have to enjoy traditional music too if we want to be considered Irish? And speak Irish, you say? Complete rubbish, of course, but typical of tight-arsed republicans. There's a letter held in the Kilmainham museum written by Pearse. In it, he decries W.B Yeats as a 3rd rate poet. What was it about Yeats that annoyed him? The fact that he wrote in English rather than Irish. Mad, mad, mad.

Some people have choose to define their Irishness solely through a hatred of britain without any consideration of what Irish culture is really about. It is that more than a desire to create all irish speaking, gaa loving traditional musicians folk which has been to the detriment of republicanism.
We must define what makes us different and for me those lines are sadly getting more blurred as time passes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ringfort on November 14, 2013, 01:35:22 PM
Number 1 would surely have to be an obsession with 'Irishness' itself. I don't think I know an Irish person who doesn't love to talk about ourselves, our place in the grand scheme of things, or the state of the country. In comparison to where I live in England, where its rare to meet someone with an opinion on anything to do with their country.

AZ - that list would be a start alright, but I immediately thought of my ould one who only ticks the language box there. Hates sport and trad ceol but is the most Irish obsessed introspective nationalist I know!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 14, 2013, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 14, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2013, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?

In my view you differentiate peoples by language,culture and ethnicity. On two of them he is just the same as our friends across the water. I dont know enough about his lineage to comment on the other.
Your views illustrate the narrowness and exclusivity of Irish republicanism. In so doing, you also illustrate why it has never achieved any of its objectives and never will. So you have to like Gaelic sports to be a real Irishman / woman? Does the same apply to Australians and their code of football? Are all those Aussie rugby and cricket players just great big frauds? And we have to enjoy traditional music too if we want to be considered Irish? And speak Irish, you say? Complete rubbish, of course, but typical of tight-arsed republicans. There's a letter held in the Kilmainham museum written by Pearse. In it, he decries W.B Yeats as a 3rd rate poet. What was it about Yeats that annoyed him? The fact that he wrote in English rather than Irish. Mad, mad, mad.

;D So your using his view of national republicanism to represent all Irish Republicanism. And your complaining about his narrowness.

You couldn't make it up!!

Ah, but he usually does...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2013, 07:06:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
Look you are missing the point. I am not denying that NI is a part of the UK. As part of the UK it can still be different and reflect the national allegience of both communities. I am saying that the acceptance of all this British symbolism by catholics is evedence that Peter Robinson is right nationalism is dead and we are all embracing Britishness.

Well I disagree.  Rumours of nationalism's death have been greatly exaggerated.  John Hume, a man for whom I have the utmost respect, once talked about something he called "post nationalism" but I think he was a bit out of touch. I'm not sure what you mean by "acceptance" of British symbolism.  I don't see any sign of nationalists running out and buying union jacks or celebrating royal weddings any time soon, but at the same time it's nice to see that we're a bit more mature about symbols than the Jamie Bryson crowd.  We don't throw a hissy fit at the sight of a union flag, which is more than can be said for the other side's reaction to the tricolour which is still like a red rag to a bull.

We might be a bit more tolerant of Britishness than the other crowd is of Irishness, but that doesn't mean we're turning into bowler-hatted "jolly-good-show" cricketers en masse.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2013, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 14, 2013, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 14, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2013, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?

In my view you differentiate peoples by language,culture and ethnicity. On two of them he is just the same as our friends across the water. I dont know enough about his lineage to comment on the other.
Your views illustrate the narrowness and exclusivity of Irish republicanism. In so doing, you also illustrate why it has never achieved any of its objectives and never will. So you have to like Gaelic sports to be a real Irishman / woman? Does the same apply to Australians and their code of football? Are all those Aussie rugby and cricket players just great big frauds? And we have to enjoy traditional music too if we want to be considered Irish? And speak Irish, you say? Complete rubbish, of course, but typical of tight-arsed republicans. There's a letter held in the Kilmainham museum written by Pearse. In it, he decries W.B Yeats as a 3rd rate poet. What was it about Yeats that annoyed him? The fact that he wrote in English rather than Irish. Mad, mad, mad.

;D So your using his view of national republicanism to represent all Irish Republicanism. And your complaining about his narrowness.

You couldn't make it up!!

Ah, but he usually does...
The GAA Board's very own Greek chorus.  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 14, 2013, 09:23:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 14, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Spoke to a republican from Gobnascale in Derry yesterday, he was taken aback when i said to him that the only difference between him and someone in England was accent.
He spends all his spare time reading red top rags, supporting Man Utd and slagging off bogball/GAA etc.

He hasnt a word of Irish, has never played nor watched GAA and doesnt know one end of an Uileann pipe from another, so to me he was just a beaten republican happy to follow everthing british and back SF up on their quest to further cement us into the UK.
His republicanism was based on a tribal/ghetto politics of the 70s/80s and no real understanding of what Irish Culture or heritage is reallty about.
Accept it lads we are beaten and outfoxed by the oul emeny again.

Is this 'someone in England' a Morris-Dancing, tea drinking, bulldog-walking, cricket watching, lip stiffening, oft gardening green grocer?

Or does the narrow stereotype apply only to the fíor Gael?

In my view you differentiate peoples by language,culture and ethnicity. On two of them he is just the same as our friends across the water. I dont know enough about his lineage to comment on the other.
So John Hume and Gerry Adams, with their lowland Scots names, are not true Irishmen?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rosnarun on November 14, 2013, 10:03:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2013, 07:06:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
Look you are missing the point. I am not denying that NI is a part of the UK. As part of the UK it can still be different and reflect the national allegience of both communities. I am saying that the acceptance of all this British symbolism by catholics is evedence that Peter Robinson is right nationalism is dead and we are all embracing Britishness.

Well I disagree.  Rumours of nationalism's death have been greatly exaggerated.  John Hume, a man for whom I have the utmost respect, once talked about something he called "post nationalism" but I think he was a bit out of touch. I'm not sure what you mean by "acceptance" of British symbolism.  I don't see any sign of nationalists running out and buying union jacks or celebrating royal weddings any time soon, but at the same time it's nice to see that we're a bit more mature about symbols than the Jamie Bryson crowd.  We don't throw a hissy fit at the sight of a union flag, which is more than can be said for the other side's reaction to the tricolour which is still like a red rag to a bull.

We might be a bit more tolerant of Britishness than the other crowd is of Irishness, but that doesn't mean we're turning into bowler-hatted "jolly-good-show" cricketers en masse.
if a nationalist were to wear a poppy , fly the union flag or celebrate a royal wedding then he would no longer be a national is or a republican for that matter ; Irish or otherwise
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2013, 10:53:08 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 14, 2013, 10:03:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2013, 07:06:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
Look you are missing the point. I am not denying that NI is a part of the UK. As part of the UK it can still be different and reflect the national allegience of both communities. I am saying that the acceptance of all this British symbolism by catholics is evedence that Peter Robinson is right nationalism is dead and we are all embracing Britishness.

Well I disagree.  Rumours of nationalism's death have been greatly exaggerated.  John Hume, a man for whom I have the utmost respect, once talked about something he called "post nationalism" but I think he was a bit out of touch. I'm not sure what you mean by "acceptance" of British symbolism.  I don't see any sign of nationalists running out and buying union jacks or celebrating royal weddings any time soon, but at the same time it's nice to see that we're a bit more mature about symbols than the Jamie Bryson crowd.  We don't throw a hissy fit at the sight of a union flag, which is more than can be said for the other side's reaction to the tricolour which is still like a red rag to a bull.

We might be a bit more tolerant of Britishness than the other crowd is of Irishness, but that doesn't mean we're turning into bowler-hatted "jolly-good-show" cricketers en masse.
if a nationalist were to wear a poppy , fly the union flag or celebrate a royal wedding then he would no longer be a national is or a republican for that matter ; Irish or otherwise

Unless of course he wanted to be.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2013, 10:57:27 PM
I find it a bit tiresome when people try to define Irishness in terms of how "non British" people can be. Neighbouring countries, particularly small ones, are always going to have a few cultural overlaps, especially if they speak the same language. Frankly I think that if anyone is concerned about Ireland losing a sense of national identity then I'd argue that resurrecting the Irish language as a daily widely-spoken tongue would be a good way to secure it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 15, 2013, 09:15:05 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2013, 07:06:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 14, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
Look you are missing the point. I am not denying that NI is a part of the UK. As part of the UK it can still be different and reflect the national allegience of both communities. I am saying that the acceptance of all this British symbolism by catholics is evedence that Peter Robinson is right nationalism is dead and we are all embracing Britishness.

Well I disagree.  Rumours of nationalism's death have been greatly exaggerated.  John Hume, a man for whom I have the utmost respect, once talked about something he called "post nationalism" but I think he was a bit out of touch. I'm not sure what you mean by "acceptance" of British symbolism.  I don't see any sign of nationalists running out and buying union jacks or celebrating royal weddings any time soon, but at the same time it's nice to see that we're a bit more mature about symbols than the Jamie Bryson crowd.  We don't throw a hissy fit at the sight of a union flag, which is more than can be said for the other side's reaction to the tricolour which is still like a red rag to a bull.

We might be a bit more tolerant of Britishness than the other crowd is of Irishness, but that doesn't mean we're turning into bowler-hatted "jolly-good-show" cricketers en masse.
emmm, I hope you are right.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on November 15, 2013, 09:31:54 AM
Not too long ago at my place of work a 'report' went up on the wall detailing an employee's 3 month transfer to India, needless to say it was taken down after 1 day because of complaints about the Indian flag ie. the colour of Green White and Orange. Absolutely dumbfounded me. Many unionists are going to cling to everything british they can get, and i for one have no problem with that. Its hard for Liberal Unionists to hear but up until fairly recently in this statelet they were allow to walk over any nationalist and ist hard for many of them to come to terms that they now have to share this place with ''them ums''.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 15, 2013, 06:31:43 PM
The sheer bitterness on the other side is a sight to behold. Remember the controversy a few years ago about a fake reindeer in a shopping centre wearing a scarf in the traditional green and red Christmas colours? The colourblind idiots thought the red looked a little too close to orange for their liking, their imagination filled in the white, and the outrage flowed.

A ladies Gaelic football club prompted complaints when doing fundraising bag-packing work in Tesco's. Ladies football isn't governed by the GAA but it's guilty by association as far as those morons are concerned.

I sometimes wonder at what's going on in their heads that makes them so bitter, there's probably a book in that.

That's why I'm a bit queasy about the anti-British stuff that sometimes comes up on our side. The last thing we should be doing is looking like equivalents to Jamie Bwyson and Wilheim Frazer.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 15, 2013, 07:36:22 PM
When people have ruled the roost for generations, lording it over Catholics in every way imaginable, then it's gonna be very difficult for these people to suddenly realise that they are now equals to these Catholics they stamped on for so long. The union fleg protests are the perfect example.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 15, 2013, 06:31:43 PM
The sheer bitterness on the other side is a sight to behold. Remember the controversy a few years ago about a fake reindeer in a shopping centre wearing a scarf in the traditional green and red Christmas colours? The colourblind idiots thought the red looked a little too close to orange for their liking, their imagination filled in the white, and the outrage flowed.

A ladies Gaelic football club prompted complaints when doing fundraising bag-packing work in Tesco's. Ladies football isn't governed by the GAA but it's guilty by association as far as those morons are concerned.

I sometimes wonder at what's going on in their heads that makes them so bitter, there's probably a book in that.

That's why I'm a bit queasy about the anti-British stuff that sometimes comes up on our side. The last thing we should be doing is looking like equivalents to Jamie Bwyson and Wilheim Frazer.
Hate to burst your bubble, but bitterness is a two way street.  "The anti-British stuff that sometimes comes up on our side".  If you read some of the posts on this board, I would say it is more than sometimes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 15, 2013, 10:32:59 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 15, 2013, 06:31:43 PM
The sheer bitterness on the other side is a sight to behold. Remember the controversy a few years ago about a fake reindeer in a shopping centre wearing a scarf in the traditional green and red Christmas colours? The colourblind idiots thought the red looked a little too close to orange for their liking, their imagination filled in the white, and the outrage flowed.

A ladies Gaelic football club prompted complaints when doing fundraising bag-packing work in Tesco's. Ladies football isn't governed by the GAA but it's guilty by association as far as those morons are concerned.

I sometimes wonder at what's going on in their heads that makes them so bitter, there's probably a book in that.

That's why I'm a bit queasy about the anti-British stuff that sometimes comes up on our side. The last thing we should be doing is looking like equivalents to Jamie Bwyson and Wilheim Frazer.
Hate to burst your bubble, but bitterness is a two way street.  "The anti-British stuff that sometimes comes up on our side".  If you read some of the posts on this board, I would say it is more than sometimes.

Why though does it crop up 'more than sometimes?'
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 10:39:03 PM
QuoteWhy though does it crop up 'more than sometimes?'

Perhaps some dislike of a people who've been beating you up for almost 900 years is understandable. Sticks and stones and all that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 15, 2013, 10:46:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 10:39:03 PM
QuoteWhy though does it crop up 'more than sometimes?'

Perhaps some dislike of a people who've been beating you up for almost 900 years is understandable. Sticks and stones and all that.
Are you 900 years old? If not, why are you claiming that someone has been beating you up for that length of time? Seriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round? 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2013, 12:07:54 AM
QuoteCan you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?

Of course I accept that there are people of a colonial disposition in Ireland, working to keep the Brutish Empire going, just as I accept that there are psychopaths, burglars, drink drivers, layabouts etc. I equally suggest that these groups would stop their anti-social activities.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 16, 2013, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2013, 12:07:54 AM
QuoteCan you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?

Of course I accept that there are people of a colonial disposition in Ireland, working to keep the Brutish Empire going, just as I accept that there are psychopaths, burglars, drink drivers, layabouts etc. I equally suggest that these groups would stop their anti-social activities.
I think your last post may just qualify as 'anti-British stuff that sometimes comes up on our side'.  As I said, despite what many nationalists and republicans may think, sectarianism and bitterness is not solely a protestant / unionist problem.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haveaharp on November 16, 2013, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 15, 2013, 10:46:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 10:39:03 PM
QuoteWhy though does it crop up 'more than sometimes?'

Perhaps some dislike of a people who've been beating you up for almost 900 years is understandable. Sticks and stones and all that.
Are you 900 years old? If not, why are you claiming that someone has been beating you up for that length of time? Seriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

I take it the same applies to the British that have a historical distaste for the French for one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 16, 2013, 02:40:39 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on November 16, 2013, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 15, 2013, 10:46:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 10:39:03 PM
QuoteWhy though does it crop up 'more than sometimes?'

Perhaps some dislike of a people who've been beating you up for almost 900 years is understandable. Sticks and stones and all that.
Are you 900 years old? If not, why are you claiming that someone has been beating you up for that length of time? Seriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

I take it the same applies to the British that have a historical distaste for the French for one.
I somehow doubt the Brits are offended at the Cuisine De France counter in their local supermarket.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 16, 2013, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?

f**k them, just wish there was a big enough boat to ship all the c***ts back to England at the same time. up the ra.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 16, 2013, 03:02:00 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2013, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?

f**k them, just wish there was a big enough boat to ship all the c***ts back to England at the same time. up the ra.

Ah yes, the Pol Pot school of thinking, although more humane  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2013, 03:05:40 PM
QuoteI take it the same applies to the British that have a historical distaste for the French for one.

The issue is not what happened in the past, the past is the past. The question is the present and whether whatever was happening in the past is still happening.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 16, 2013, 03:15:44 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 16, 2013, 12:23:39 PM
, sectarianism and bitterness is not solely a protestant / unionist problem.
Maybe not but they've certainly cornered most of that market though. ;)
When a large number of Catholic males set up an organisation one of whose main aims is to " oppose the erroneous doctrines of Protestantism" and start holding marches in Protestant areas accompanied by Paramilitary bands and drunken louts then "we" might start getting nearer to parity on the sectarian front.
In the meantime we're happy to leave ye in the forefront of sectarianism.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 16, 2013, 04:21:20 PM
Fear bun, leave them Wateride men alone!!! Give him the details of trasnaman and he will bring him into DoireTrasna. Good man getting him to the culturlann by the way.

I don't think your man is on his own regarding reading shite in shite papers, watching foreign teams and ignoring our national sports.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 16, 2013, 04:59:32 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2013, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?

f**k them, just wish there was a big enough boat to ship all the c***ts back to England at the same time. up the ra.
Forced repatriation - Nice.  A policy, if I'm not mistaken, favoured by right wing parties such as the BNP in the UK.  So much for Republicanism's alleged efforts to persuade Unionists that they would be better off in a UI. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 16, 2013, 05:06:19 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 16, 2013, 04:59:32 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 16, 2013, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?

f**k them, just wish there was a big enough boat to ship all the c***ts back to England at the same time. up the ra.
Forced repatriation - Nice.  A policy, if I'm not mistaken, favoured by right wing parties such as the BNP in the UK.  So much for Republicanism's alleged efforts to persuade Unionists that they would be better off in a UI.
One clown on a discussion forum = "Republicanism" !!! ::)
Expected better from you Michaelín.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haveaharp on November 16, 2013, 05:16:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 16, 2013, 02:40:39 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on November 16, 2013, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 15, 2013, 10:46:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 10:39:03 PM
QuoteWhy though does it crop up 'more than sometimes?'

Perhaps some dislike of a people who've been beating you up for almost 900 years is understandable. Sticks and stones and all that.
Are you 900 years old? If not, why are you claiming that someone has been beating you up for that length of time? Seriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

I take it the same applies to the British that have a historical distaste for the French for one.
I somehow doubt the Brits are offended at the Cuisine De France counter in their local supermarket.

Not as much as the Rossies anyway

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/international_football/16438/drunken-irishman-urinated-on-french-bread-in-protest-at-henry-handball.html (http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/international_football/16438/drunken-irishman-urinated-on-french-bread-in-protest-at-henry-handball.html)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haveaharp on November 16, 2013, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2013, 03:05:40 PM
QuoteI take it the same applies to the British that have a historical distaste for the French for one.

The issue is not what happened in the past, the past is the past. The question is the present and whether whatever was happening in the past is still happening.

We know that, however Myles was saying that our present attitudes should not be shaped by what happened centuries ago. Does the same apply to Brit attitudes towards the French ? To be fair to the British (the ones over the water) they aren't dressing up for 4 months a year and tramping around Calais making tits of themselves.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2013, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?
Well you see they can't be British unless born on that other Island, otherwise they are Northern Irish and UK citizens...just to be pedantic.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 16, 2013, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2013, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?
Well you see they can't be British unless born on that other Island, otherwise they are Northern Irish and UK citizens...just to be pedantic.
As we're being pedantic, under the GFA they can most definitely be British.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2013, 05:42:25 PM
Joking aside there is sectarianism on all sides, the prods just do it more openly and barefaced.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2013, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 16, 2013, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2013, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?
Well you see they can't be British unless born on that other Island, otherwise they are Northern Irish and UK citizens...just to be pedantic.
As we're being pedantic, under the GFA they can most definitely be British.
No they can hold what is called a British Passport...which I believe says they are a Citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maguire01 on November 16, 2013, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2013, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 16, 2013, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2013, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?
Well you see they can't be British unless born on that other Island, otherwise they are Northern Irish and UK citizens...just to be pedantic.
As we're being pedantic, under the GFA they can most definitely be British.
No they can hold what is called a British Passport...which I believe says they are a Citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
You're wrong.

1. The participants endorse the commitment made by the British and Irish Governments that, in a new British-Irish Agreement replacing the Anglo-Irish Agreement, they will:

(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 16, 2013, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2013, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?
Well you see they can't be British unless born on that other Island, otherwise they are Northern Irish and UK citizens...just to be pedantic.
Just to add to Pedants Corner, does that , mean people from the Scottish isles, the Isle of Wight etc can't call themselves British either?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 16, 2013, 08:11:59 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 16, 2013, 06:30:48 PM
Just to add to Pedants Corner, does that , mean people from the Scottish isles, the Isle of Wight etc can't call themselves British either?
And to pedant some more - whatabout (:o :o) decent people from the said Isles ??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dillinger on November 16, 2013, 11:02:06 PM

[/quote]

f**k them, just wish there was a big enough boat to ship all the c***ts back to England at the same time. up the ra.
[/quote]

Charlie Tully.
Hero Member it says.

Should really say ****.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 16, 2013, 11:26:15 PM
Quote from: dillinger on November 16, 2013, 11:02:06 PM


f**k them, just wish there was a big enough boat to ship all the c***ts back to England at the same time. up the ra.
[/quote]

Charlie Tully.
Hero Member it says.

Should really say ****.
[/quote]

Ha ha ha you have made my day.  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 19, 2013, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 16, 2013, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 16, 2013, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 15, 2013, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
QuoteSeriously, what connection do you have with people who lived centuries ago? Grow up, ffs.

Well if people can claim they are "British" because of these people coming here centuries ago then perhaps it is they, rather than me, who should grow up.
Can you not just accept that some people who live in Ireland feel that they are British?  Surely it can't be too hard to get your head round?
Well you see they can't be British unless born on that other Island, otherwise they are Northern Irish and UK citizens...just to be pedantic.
Just to add to Pedants Corner, does that , mean people from the Scottish isles, the Isle of Wight etc can't call themselves British either?
They most likely don't for the most part. Look pedantry aside even I would recognise the right of people to label themselves as they see fit, it isn't really an issue not that they would care what I think!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 03, 2014, 09:42:58 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?

We are no longer the laughing stock of Europe.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2014, 09:42:58 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?

We are no longer the laughing stock of Europe.
You are right there, that's Cameron.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 03, 2014, 11:58:35 AM
The annual attack on James McClean should be starting any minute..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 12:08:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 03, 2014, 11:58:35 AM
The annual attack on James McClean should be starting any minute..
I was just saying that to my son the other evening.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 03, 2014, 12:24:52 PM
When Ryanair opened their Belfast routes O'Leary appeared in an NI football shirt.He said We don't fly from Brazil We Fly from Northern Ireland
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 03, 2014, 12:56:57 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 03, 2014, 09:42:58 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?

We are no longer the laughing stock of Europe.

Matured as a nation????

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 01:22:27 PM
Where did I mention nation?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 03, 2014, 01:28:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?

On the other hand, when will the britsh finally stop this nonsense?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2014, 01:28:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?

On the other hand, when will the britsh finally stop this nonsense?
It is only nonsense when you look at it from an Irish Nationalist perspective. At the end of the day the British Legion in Britain does good work with soldiers who are discarded by the establishment by and large when they can no longer serve. They have capitalised to an extent on this failure and use the appeal to raise funds very successfully. Unfortunately here in the North it has been badly served by unionist and loyalists who use it as a symbol of dominance.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 03, 2014, 04:11:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2014, 01:28:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?

On the other hand, when will the britsh finally stop this nonsense?
It is only nonsense when you look at it from an Irish Nationalist perspective. At the end of the day the British Legion in Britain does good work with soldiers who are discarded by the establishment by and large when they can no longer serve. They have capitalised to an extent on this failure and use the appeal to raise funds very successfully. Unfortunately here in the North it has been badly served by unionist and loyalists who use it as a symbol of dominance.

Germans manage remembrance much better.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2014, 04:14:09 PM
Why is it always the Poppys.

Where are the Mommys?

Rule 1: Rule 1 applies;
Rule 2: See rule 1;
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 04:53:33 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2014, 04:11:05 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2014, 01:28:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?

On the other hand, when will the britsh finally stop this nonsense?
It is only nonsense when you look at it from an Irish Nationalist perspective. At the end of the day the British Legion in Britain does good work with soldiers who are discarded by the establishment by and large when they can no longer serve. They have capitalised to an extent on this failure and use the appeal to raise funds very successfully. Unfortunately here in the North it has been badly served by unionist and loyalists who use it as a symbol of dominance.

Germans manage remembrance much better.
In your opinion but each to their own. Sure the Shinners mimic it with the Easter Lily campaign every Easter.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 03, 2014, 05:10:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2014, 01:28:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?

On the other hand, when will the britsh finally stop this nonsense?
It is only nonsense when you look at it from an Irish Nationalist perspective. At the end of the day the British Legion in Britain does good work with soldiers who are discarded by the establishment by and large when they can no longer serve. They have capitalised to an extent on this failure and use the appeal to raise funds very successfully. Unfortunately here in the North it has been badly served by unionist and loyalists who use it as a symbol of dominance.

Exactly. Soldiers who suffer in battle are therefore neglected by the government they fought for. Which is why the Poppy is pushed so much. A charity looks after the wounded rather than the Nazis that led them to war in the first place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2014, 05:31:16 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2014, 01:28:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on November 03, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Michael O'Leary on BBC Business Breakfast News this morning.  I doubt it very much if the bould Michael already had one on when he arrived at the BBC studio.
Is it a sign of progress and maturity that we've got to November 3rd this year before the first posting on this thread?

On the other hand, when will the britsh finally stop this nonsense?
It is only nonsense when you look at it from an Irish Nationalist perspective. At the end of the day the British Legion in Britain does good work with soldiers who are discarded by the establishment by and large when they can no longer serve. They have capitalised to an extent on this failure and use the appeal to raise funds very successfully. Unfortunately here in the North it has been badly served by unionist and loyalists who use it as a symbol of dominance.

A lot of ex soldiers end up homeless and alcoholic. I used to help out in a homeless centre in London and we'd see them.  A long way from the front page of the Sun. England has this really martial culture and the media are a huge part of it. If you stake a step back and look at the system as a whole young men get promises of glory, a lot get injured and then they get shafted. 

I think the poppy is hypocritical. If they really cared they'd make sure ex soldiers were supported after the army.  PTSD is not taken seriously at all. And army families often get shit accommodation, much of which has been privatised. But you won't hear anything about that at the Cenotaph. It's all plámás.

PJ Harvey's song is a much better remembrance of the horror

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfAvoVDQaAo

As is the German President's speech in Warsaw this year

http://www.bundespraesident.de/SharedDocs/Reden/EN/JoachimGauck/Reden/2014/140729-Ausstellung-Warschau-Aufstand.html
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: eddie d on November 03, 2014, 07:05:35 PM
They were pushing them flat out on casualty the other night
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 04, 2014, 09:48:18 AM
I've two criteria to be agreed before going to war;

1) 2% increase in Tax across all bands to cover the additional costs.
2) A close family relation of each government minister must be in the first wave of troops into battle.

Can't see there being such a rush into war if those two criteria had to be met first.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 04, 2014, 10:25:33 AM
My dad asked me the other day whether my son would be found wearing a poppy. I couldn't give him an answer. I know it's important to my wife but . . . I think I'll be kicking that can down the road.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 04, 2014, 11:36:33 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 04, 2014, 09:48:18 AM
I've two criteria to be agreed before going to war;

1) 2% increase in Tax across all bands to cover the additional costs.
2) A close family relation of each government minister must be in the first wave of troops into battle.

Can't see there being such a rush into war if those two criteria had to be met first.

Bollix! Why should ordinary joes pay for wars started by the elites? The working classes all around the world have always been duped into fighting phoney wars without ever knowing the real reasons.

I read some of the costs of missiles being used in wherever the feck the Brits have invaded now. Hundreds of thousands and millions for each, yet nhs, education, disability cuts are happening to fund this bollix.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 04, 2014, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 04, 2014, 11:36:33 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 04, 2014, 09:48:18 AM
I've two criteria to be agreed before going to war;

1) 2% increase in Tax across all bands to cover the additional costs.
2) A close family relation of each government minister must be in the first wave of troops into battle.

Can't see there being such a rush into war if those two criteria had to be met first.

Bollix! Why should ordinary joes pay for wars started by the elites? The working classes all around the world have always been duped into fighting phoney wars without ever knowing the real reasons.

I read some of the costs of missiles being used in wherever the feck the Brits have invaded now. Hundreds of thousands and millions for each, yet nhs, education, disability cuts are happening to fund this bollix.

That's the thing, they are already, not only in monetary terms but in lives and injuries, just bring it out in the open and we'll see how many governments are in a rush to pull the trigger.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 04, 2014, 03:57:26 PM
Bring what out into the open? I don't follow.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2014, 07:00:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 04, 2014, 03:57:26 PM
Bring what out into the open? I don't follow.
::) He means set some pre-conditions that have a direct impact on those making the decision to enter into a war.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 04, 2014, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2014, 07:00:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 04, 2014, 03:57:26 PM
Bring what out into the open? I don't follow.
::) He means set some pre-conditions that have a direct impact on those making the decision to enter into a war.

Yes that will happen. Maybe they could also divulge to potential enlistees the "real" reasons for going to war too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 04, 2014, 08:55:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 04, 2014, 10:25:33 AM
My dad asked me the other day whether my son would be found wearing a poppy. I couldn't give him an answer. I know it's important to my wife but . . . I think I'll be kicking that can down the road.
If he is brought up in England then why not? Different here in the north where it is misused by our PUL fellow countrymen.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 04, 2014, 09:13:43 PM
to be honest the poppy never bothered me, i don't know why we had a thread on it for what 4 or so years running, whats it say about us. Though i did notice a woman at work today with a  poppy but about 4 times the size of a standard one, it was really noticeable but whether anyone will bite and ask why her poppy so large i don't know
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 04, 2014, 09:34:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2014, 05:31:16 PM
A lot of ex soldiers end up homeless and alcoholic. I used to help out in a homeless centre in London and we'd see them.  A long way from the front page of the Sun. England has this really martial culture and the media are a huge part of it. If you stake a step back and look at the system as a whole young men get promises of glory, a lot get injured and then they get shafted. 

There you go again. Just like you did on the "UK constitutional crisis"  thread

Addiction is not a political act Seafoid. Stop exploiting it to further your worldview.

Seriously, you are like some sort of moralistic predator  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Windmill abu on November 05, 2014, 01:34:40 AM
We live in a world of freedom of information.

Even the ordinary recruit/grunt knows all about war and its risks and consequences.

If you decide that your career path is to go abroad & fight with the indigenous populations of other countries, you should not expect special treatment when you come back. Other people are disabled & mentally ill/traumatised through no fault of their own. Why should people who put themselves in the line of fire deserve special treatment?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 07:18:03 AM
Working in Buxton at the minute and out of 26 on course plus staff there might be 7/8 people wearing them..... In fairness 3 of them are  ex forces. Thought there would be more. Though the girls and younger lads aren't wearing them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 08:43:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 07:18:03 AM
Working in Buxton at the minute and out of 26 on course plus staff there might be 7/8 people wearing them..... In fairness 3 of them are  ex forces. Thought there would be more. Though the girls and younger lads aren't wearing them.
If you get any time see some of the Peak District. Hope Valley area is nice. Buxton is a decent real ale town if that's your thing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ludermor on November 05, 2014, 08:54:32 AM
Quote from: Windmill abu on November 05, 2014, 01:34:40 AM
We live in a world of freedom of information.

Even the ordinary recruit/grunt knows all about war and its risks and consequences.

If you decide that your career path is to go abroad & fight with the indigenous populations of other countries, you should not expect special treatment when you come back. Other people are disabled & mentally ill/traumatised through no fault of their own. Why should people who put themselves in the line of fire deserve special treatment?
Let me get this right, do you believe there is never a case to be had for intervention in other countries wars?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ballinaman on November 05, 2014, 09:41:34 AM
Well this woke me up this morning as it landed in the station.....

(http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/media/4075637/lpd14tube_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2014, 09:44:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 04, 2014, 08:55:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 04, 2014, 10:25:33 AM
My dad asked me the other day whether my son would be found wearing a poppy. I couldn't give him an answer. I know it's important to my wife but . . . I think I'll be kicking that can down the road.
If he is brought up in England then why not? Different here in the north where it is misused by our PUL fellow countrymen.

He is being brought up in Ireland.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 05, 2014, 10:18:04 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on November 05, 2014, 09:41:34 AM
Well this woke me up this morning as it landed in the station.....

(http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/media/4075637/lpd14tube_500.jpg)

I don't mind that at all. In Flanders Field where red poppies grow is what I would have thought the Poppy should be about. Remembering the dead of all sides in World War I.

Now it has morphed into some sort of celebration of the British Armed Forces, and I'm not crazy about that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 05, 2014, 10:19:30 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 05, 2014, 10:18:04 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on November 05, 2014, 09:41:34 AM
Well this woke me up this morning as it landed in the station.....

(http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/media/4075637/lpd14tube_500.jpg)

I don't mind that at all. In Flanders Field where red poppies grow is what I would have thought the Poppy should be about. Remembering the dead of all sides in World War I.

Now it has morphed into some sort of celebration of the British Armed Forces, and I'm not crazy about that.

I think that the Poppy appeal on the side of this Tube seems to be supported by one of the main supporters of the British War Machine in Bombadier is sickening.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 05, 2014, 10:20:10 AM
I actually didn't cop that. I thought it was the beer!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 10:49:21 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 08:43:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 07:18:03 AM
Working in Buxton at the minute and out of 26 on course plus staff there might be 7/8 people wearing them..... In fairness 3 of them are  ex forces. Thought there would be more. Though the girls and younger lads aren't wearing them.
If you get any time see some of the Peak District. Hope Valley area is nice. Buxton is a decent real ale town if that's your thing.

Buxton tap brewery is my local! Ale's are serious
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2014, 11:15:12 AM
In 2003, there was about a million people who took to the streets of London to protest over the Iraq invasion. I wonder how many of them buy poppies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ludermor on November 05, 2014, 12:08:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2014, 11:15:12 AM
In 2003, there was about a million people who took to the streets of London to protest over the Iraq invasion. I wonder how many of them buy poppies.
392,978
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2014, 12:17:17 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 05, 2014, 12:08:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2014, 11:15:12 AM
In 2003, there was about a million people who took to the streets of London to protest over the Iraq invasion. I wonder how many of them buy poppies.
392,978

Hmm... interesting.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haveaharp on November 05, 2014, 12:28:51 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 05, 2014, 10:19:30 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 05, 2014, 10:18:04 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on November 05, 2014, 09:41:34 AM
Well this woke me up this morning as it landed in the station.....

(http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/media/4075637/lpd14tube_500.jpg)

I don't mind that at all. In Flanders Field where red poppies grow is what I would have thought the Poppy should be about. Remembering the dead of all sides in World War I.

Now it has morphed into some sort of celebration of the British Armed Forces, and I'm not crazy about that.

I think that the Poppy appeal on the side of this Tube seems to be supported by one of the main supporters of the British War Machine in Bombadier is sickening.

It's dodgy tackle alright, i get sick of it after 2 or 3
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 05, 2014, 12:44:47 PM
8 million men served in the British army in WW1 and there were 16,000 conscientious objectors. Clement and Tom Attlee were 2 brothers - Clement went to War, Tom didn't. Clement became Prime Minister; Tom had difficulty ever getting work again.

https://ownzones.com/reader/guardian-life-style/conscientious-objectors-men-who-fought-a-different-kind-of-battle/b4wfdq58mht45

WW1 led directly to WW2 and the net result was the destruction of much of Europe. WTF was it all about ?
The Yanks took over after 1945.

And this is the best song about WW1, I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8up7r6PscEI




Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 10:49:21 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 08:43:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 07:18:03 AM
Working in Buxton at the minute and out of 26 on course plus staff there might be 7/8 people wearing them..... In fairness 3 of them are  ex forces. Thought there would be more. Though the girls and younger lads aren't wearing them.
If you get any time see some of the Peak District. Hope Valley area is nice. Buxton is a decent real ale town if that's your thing.

Buxton tap brewery is my local! Ale's are serious
The term "like a pig in shite" springs to mind  ;D I suppose when talking to your missus you are giving her loads about how busy you are etc...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 10:49:21 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 08:43:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 07:18:03 AM
Working in Buxton at the minute and out of 26 on course plus staff there might be 7/8 people wearing them..... In fairness 3 of them are  ex forces. Thought there would be more. Though the girls and younger lads aren't wearing them.
If you get any time see some of the Peak District. Hope Valley area is nice. Buxton is a decent real ale town if that's your thing.

Buxton tap brewery is my local! Ale's are serious
The term "like a pig in shite" springs to mind  ;D I suppose when talking to your missus you are giving her loads about how busy you are etc...

To be brutally honest I'm studying my fecking ass off!!! Lessons start at 9 finish at 6.30pm then I do some revision head out meal, 3/4 pints and back to hotel and re do my notes or go over them again for a morning test !!!

But yeah I am telling her its a lot harder than it really is. Axe or double ale is seriously strong
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 01:20:55 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2014, 09:44:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 04, 2014, 08:55:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 04, 2014, 10:25:33 AM
My dad asked me the other day whether my son would be found wearing a poppy. I couldn't give him an answer. I know it's important to my wife but . . . I think I'll be kicking that can down the road.
If he is brought up in England then why not? Different here in the north where it is misused by our PUL fellow countrymen.

He is being brought up in Ireland.
It is possible to remember the war dead AND wear a poppy. Buying and wearing a poppy imo is not tacit approval of war (illegal or otherwise), in the same way that visiting Dubai is not tacit approval of the slave-like conditions of the workers involved in building your 5 star hotel, buying a cheap t-shirt undoubtedly manufactured in a sweatshop in SE Asia is not... etc. etc.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 01:20:55 PM
It is possible to remember the war dead AND wear a poppy. Buying and wearing a poppy imo is not tacit approval of war (illegal or otherwise), in the same way that visiting Dubai is not tacit approval of the slave-like conditions of the workers involved in building your 5 star hotel, buying a cheap t-shirt undoubtedly manufactured in a sweatshop in SE Asia is not... etc. etc.

I'm sure you're right on an intellectual level, just as I could justify donning a Tipperary fleece if I was freezing cold. But on an emotional level I'd be thinking that there must be some other way to keep warm.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 01:20:55 PM
It is possible to remember the war dead AND wear a poppy. Buying and wearing a poppy imo is not tacit approval of war (illegal or otherwise), in the same way that visiting Dubai is not tacit approval of the slave-like conditions of the workers involved in building your 5 star hotel, buying a cheap t-shirt undoubtedly manufactured in a sweatshop in SE Asia is not... etc. etc.

I'm sure you're right on an intellectual level, just as I could justify donning a Tipperary fleece if I was freezing cold. But on an emotional level I'd be thinking that there must be some other way to keep warm.
I'm in the same boat as yourself re. marital background and I have no issue with the children supporting a poppy appeal as long as I have set them straight on what it really means and they agree to not wear it in public  ;D. I wouldn't miss the poppy if it never existed but I don't get my knickers in a twist over it either. I do however get annoyed when some unionist/loyalist no mark is attempting to use it to antagonise the other side.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: An Gaeilgoir on November 05, 2014, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 01:20:55 PM
It is possible to remember the war dead AND wear a poppy. Buying and wearing a poppy imo is not tacit approval of war (illegal or otherwise), in the same way that visiting Dubai is not tacit approval of the slave-like conditions of the workers involved in building your 5 star hotel, buying a cheap t-shirt undoubtedly manufactured in a sweatshop in SE Asia is not... etc. etc.

I'm sure you're right on an intellectual level, just as I could justify donning a Tipperary fleece if I was freezing cold. But on an emotional level I'd be thinking that there must be some other way to keep warm.
I'm in the same boat as yourself re. marital background and I have no issue with the children supporting a poppy appeal as long as I have set them straight on what it really means and they agree to not wear it in public  ;D. I wouldn't miss the poppy if it never existed but I don't get my knickers in a twist over it either. I do however get annoyed when some unionist/loyalist no mark is attempting to use it to antagonise the other side.

As i am sure the Unionists get annoyed and antagonised by the wearing of the Easter lily. People can find offence with almost anything, if they are so inclined...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2014, 02:34:10 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 05, 2014, 02:22:03 PM
As i am sure the Unionists get annoyed and antagonised by the wearing of the Easter lily. People can find offence with almost anything, if they are so inclined...

The only thing that bugs me about the poppy is its ubiquity on British television. Every year someone in the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5 and Sky is deputised to ensure that every broadcast has someone who will affix a poppy to the lapel of every presenter and every guest for at at least two weeks before Remembrance Day. There must be an army of people responsible for this, and I have an image of dancers from eastern Europe on Strictly Come Dancing doing a double-take as this is done without their permission. If the same Stepford behavior were exhibited by RTÉ with regards to any symbol, that would get on my wick too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2014, 04:40:11 PM
The BBC, in particular, should not show any favour to one charity over another (the Poppy thing is a charity after all). It should be a neutral organisation with no emblems.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: JimStynes on November 05, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
Working in an integrated school at the minute and the staff are wearing them. They even have children going around selling them! I have told all the children in my class that they're not allowed them on during the school day and they can only put them when they leave the school. The children don't even know what they are for ffs. They think they're 'little flower things.' I am waiting to be called into the office with complaints made about it but I honestly couldn't give a shit. It's a disgrace that they have any badges or things like poppies in school at all!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tyroneman on November 05, 2014, 08:55:32 PM
Maybe I have got this wrong but apart from unionist politicisation and the poppy bullying that goes on in the media etc - is one of the main objections to the Poppy not that the money goes to the British legion which is a charity for British soldiers...including those who committed atrocities like Bloody Sunday over here?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 05, 2014, 09:32:32 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
Working in an integrated school at the minute and the staff are wearing them. They even have children going around selling them! I have told all the children in my class that they're not allowed them on during the school day and they can only put them when they leave the school. The children don't even know what they are for ffs. They think they're 'little flower things.' I am waiting to be called into the office with complaints made about it but I honestly couldn't give a shit. It's a disgrace that they have any badges or things like poppies in school at all!
no way should they be wearing anything in an integrated school that divides one side from the other. if a few GAA jerseys which aren't political in my opinion or easter lillies were worn they wouldn't be long stopping it,
I have no problem with remembering those who fought and died in the 2 world wars, my grandfather fought in ww1 but I wouldn't wear a poppy even though its a lovely flower
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2014, 10:25:06 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 05, 2014, 09:32:32 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
Working in an integrated school at the minute and the staff are wearing them. They even have children going around selling them! I have told all the children in my class that they're not allowed them on during the school day and they can only put them when they leave the school. The children don't even know what they are for ffs. They think they're 'little flower things.' I am waiting to be called into the office with complaints made about it but I honestly couldn't give a shit. It's a disgrace that they have any badges or things like poppies in school at all!
no way should they be wearing anything in an integrated school that divides one side from the other. if a few GAA jerseys which aren't political in my opinion or easter lillies were worn they wouldn't be long stopping it,
I have no problem with remembering those who fought and died in the 2 world wars, my grandfather fought in ww1 but I wouldn't wear a poppy even though its a lovely flower

That's the problem, its all about opinions, and as they say opinions are like assholes, everyone has one
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ONeill on November 05, 2014, 10:54:12 PM
One side doesn't like the other side wearing flowers. One side doesn't like the other side speaking Irish. One side doesn't like that flag. One side wants a flag up. One side doesn't like the other side marching down a road and the other side doesn't like the names of some clubs.

I blame schools and Stephen Nolan.

There are a lot (a feckin lot) of 11-18 year olds who don't like the other side and their emblems or customs but cannot verbalise why.

Also blame Milltown Road and Patrick Kielty and the Hole In The Head Gang.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2014, 11:12:21 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
Working in an integrated school at the minute and the staff are wearing them. They even have children going around selling them! I have told all the children in my class that they're not allowed them on during the school day and they can only put them when they leave the school. The children don't even know what they are for ffs. They think they're 'little flower things.' I am waiting to be called into the office with complaints made about it but I honestly couldn't give a shit. It's a disgrace that they have any badges or things like poppies in school at all!

The 6 counties is full of pseudo integrated schools.

The broader issue is that this poppy thing has somehow managed to exempt itself from fair employment rules generally and it is one of many things that shows that the 6 counties haven't really changed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Windmill abu on November 05, 2014, 11:21:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 05, 2014, 08:54:32 AM
Quote from: Windmill abu on November 05, 2014, 01:34:40 AM
We live in a world of freedom of information.

Even the ordinary recruit/grunt knows all about war and its risks and consequences.

If you decide that your career path is to go abroad & fight with the indigenous populations of other countries, you should not expect special treatment when you come back. Other people are disabled & mentally ill/traumatised through no fault of their own. Why should people who put themselves in the line of fire deserve special treatment?
Let me get this right, do you believe there is never a case to be had for intervention in other countries wars?

Where did I say that?

My point is that the poppy appeal wants us to give disabled former British servicemen a better class of life than those who have the same disability through their civilian lives.

The poppy appeal also raises money for old & retired servicemen (Chelsea pensioners).

There are retired people from all walks of life (Miners, Nurses, Firemen, Teachers, Police etc,) who have served their country/communities.
Where is the annual appeal for them?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2014, 11:53:59 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on November 05, 2014, 11:21:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 05, 2014, 08:54:32 AM
Quote from: Windmill abu on November 05, 2014, 01:34:40 AM
We live in a world of freedom of information.

Even the ordinary recruit/grunt knows all about war and its risks and consequences.

If you decide that your career path is to go abroad & fight with the indigenous populations of other countries, you should not expect special treatment when you come back. Other people are disabled & mentally ill/traumatised through no fault of their own. Why should people who put themselves in the line of fire deserve special treatment?
Let me get this right, do you believe there is never a case to be had for intervention in other countries wars?

Where did I say that?

My point is that the poppy appeal wants us to give disabled former British servicemen a better class of life than those who have the same disability through their civilian lives.

The poppy appeal also raises money for old & retired servicemen (Chelsea pensioners).

There are retired people from all walks of life (Miners, Nurses, Firemen, Teachers, Police etc,) who have served their country/communities.
Where is the annual appeal for them?
Those other people need to get a decent PR company. The British Legion obviously got the right people in.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 06, 2014, 05:36:17 AM
The poppy is in the middle of the title of the 'Irish World' ( a paper for the irish in Britain)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 06, 2014, 09:23:07 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2014, 11:12:21 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
Working in an integrated school at the minute and the staff are wearing them. They even have children going around selling them! I have told all the children in my class that they're not allowed them on during the school day and they can only put them when they leave the school. The children don't even know what they are for ffs. They think they're 'little flower things.' I am waiting to be called into the office with complaints made about it but I honestly couldn't give a shit. It's a disgrace that they have any badges or things like poppies in school at all!

The 6 counties is full of pseudo integrated schools.

The broader issue is that this poppy thing has somehow managed to exempt itself from fair employment rules generally and it is one of many things that shows that the 6 counties haven't really changed.

Has it?

I questioned the wearing of it and even selling of it in a former place of work and was told by HR that people are entitled to wear  it to and from their place of work, but not in it.

Has that changed?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2014, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
Working in an integrated school at the minute and the staff are wearing them. They even have children going around selling them! I have told all the children in my class that they're not allowed them on during the school day and they can only put them when they leave the school. The children don't even know what they are for ffs. They think they're 'little flower things.' I am waiting to be called into the office with complaints made about it but I honestly couldn't give a shit. It's a disgrace that they have any badges or things like poppies in school at all!

That's a bit much in fairness. My kids go to an integrated school and it has never been an issue. They wear their Crossmaglen gear to PE and there has never been a peep. There are English kids wearing their English gear and there has never been a peep. The headmistress has worn the poppy before but her family fought in the war so it's in remembrance of them.  I have seen a few kids wearing them but only a few, and there's never been an issue. Time to stop driving down people's throats but also we need to be a small bit more accommodating and not get offended so easily
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 06, 2014, 10:15:02 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2014, 09:44:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 04, 2014, 08:55:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 04, 2014, 10:25:33 AM
My dad asked me the other day whether my son would be found wearing a poppy. I couldn't give him an answer. I know it's important to my wife but . . . I think I'll be kicking that can down the road.
If he is brought up in England then why not? Different here in the north where it is misused by our PUL fellow countrymen.

He is being brought up in Ireland.
That makes it awkward I suppose.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2014, 10:20:11 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 06, 2014, 10:15:02 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2014, 09:44:29 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 04, 2014, 08:55:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 04, 2014, 10:25:33 AM
My dad asked me the other day whether my son would be found wearing a poppy. I couldn't give him an answer. I know it's important to my wife but . . . I think I'll be kicking that can down the road.
If he is brought up in England then why not? Different here in the north where it is misused by our PUL fellow countrymen.

He is being brought up in Ireland.
That makes it awkward I suppose.

Awkward is the right word. I don't want to overstate this. Whatever decision we make we're not going to fall out over it. But you have to make a choice. You can't half-wear a symbol.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 06, 2014, 10:33:22 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2014, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
Working in an integrated school at the minute and the staff are wearing them. They even have children going around selling them! I have told all the children in my class that they're not allowed them on during the school day and they can only put them when they leave the school. The children don't even know what they are for ffs. They think they're 'little flower things.' I am waiting to be called into the office with complaints made about it but I honestly couldn't give a shit. It's a disgrace that they have any badges or things like poppies in school at all!

That's a bit much in fairness. My kids go to an integrated school and it has never been an issue. They wear their Crossmaglen gear to PE and there has never been a peep. There are English kids wearing their English gear and there has never been a peep. The headmistress has worn the poppy before but her family fought in the war so it's in remembrance of them.  I have seen a few kids wearing them but only a few, and there's never been an issue. Time to stop driving down people's throats but also we need to be a small bit more accommodating and not get offended so easily
A lot of sense there and from a Crossman too, who'd a thought it!! I have no issue whatsoever with the British promoting the poppy. I would say 90% of families on this Island going back over the years would have some connection to the British Army. My own Uncle was killed in WWII. Yes the British Army did some awful things in Ireland over the centuries but war is war, the Irish did some awful things in return. That said the Unionist population here as I stated previously have managed to politicise the poppy over here and that grates on Nationalists including myself. Unfortunately as we can see from their politicians they haven't quite grasped what the word equality means and whilst demanding respect for their own culture they seek to denigrate Irish culture. But do you know what that says more about their mind-set than it does about the rest of us. And not all those who wear the poppy do so to give offence a lot are genuine. I would draw the line at forcing people to wear one, which is prevalent on TV especially here in the north as it is not seen as a neutral symbol. On the other hand many unionists see GAA shirts as not being neutral but we all wear them. Perhaps it is time to live and let live, if we cease being offended then those that wear them out of a wish to annoy will eventually stop. Relationships on these Islands are so intertwined that we need to get along in a respectful manner Unionists like Gregory Campbell will either catch on or be laughed out of town.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 06, 2014, 10:47:37 AM
The Poppy is the International symbol of remembrance. Is the problem that they are sold by the British Legion and  it seems to have been hijacked to symbolise all/only British soldiers who have been killed? 

There is nothing to say you can't make your own.  Don't know how old your son is but maybe make it with him and use it as a learning experience.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 06, 2014, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2014, 10:47:37 AM
The Poppy is the International symbol of remembrance. Is the problem that they are sold by the British Legion and  it seems to have been hijacked to symbolise all/only British soldiers who have been killed? 

There is nothing to say you can't make your own.  Don't know how old your son is but maybe make it with him and use it as a learning experience.

Maybe the White Poppy can be worn?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2014, 10:58:13 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2014, 10:47:37 AM
The Poppy is the International symbol of remembrance. Is the problem that they are sold by the British Legion and  it seems to have been hijacked to symbolise all/only British soldiers who have been killed? 

It is not an international symbol of remembrance. It's the British Legion's symbol, and with the best will in the world it's never going to be a symbol that resonates for me.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 06, 2014, 11:05:03 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2014, 10:47:37 AM
The Poppy is the International symbol of remembrance.

I've never seen any people from other (e.g EU ) countries wearing them.

I regret to say there will be people wearing them in Boyle again this year in what could have been a dignified historical event to recall/record Roscommon people who died in volunteered for or died in WW1.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2014, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 06, 2014, 11:05:03 AM
I've never seen any people from other (e.g EU ) countries wearing them.

You'd see it in Empire Commonwealth countries.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rosnarun on November 06, 2014, 11:12:11 AM
I was watching Boardwalk Empire last night and they were having  a memorial day service . set in early 1920's and they were all wearing Poppies.
the Main reason I would have a problem with poppies and is the facist manner in which they are promted .
they are now a celebration of the english army,  all their mighty deeds and slaughters many of which were done to the Irish. not to mention the Lies they and their willing folls like redmond told young  irish boys in 1914,
i think the real remberance going on is back to a time when the english were relevant on the world scene
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 06, 2014, 11:15:55 AM
If it was about remembering the two WW's, that's fine, but it's not. Britain have been at war/occupied countries for 100 continuous years.

It's the talk around Poppy Day that pisses me off: the likes of, these guys are heroes, they do such a great job for us... How? By blowing the fcuk out of innocent people on the other side of the world?! It's like what they're doing in Iraq/Afghanistan is such a noble thing. Don't insult my intelligence! But that's how it's put across in the media and people continue to take in the bullshit that's fed to them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 06, 2014, 11:17:48 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 06, 2014, 11:05:03 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 06, 2014, 10:47:37 AM
The Poppy is the International symbol of remembrance.

I've never seen any people from other (e.g EU ) countries wearing them.

I regret to say there will be people wearing them in Boyle again this year in what could have been a dignified historical event to recall/record Roscommon people who died in volunteered for or died in WW1.

I've seen a German wearing a Poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2014, 11:33:27 AM
There will be a commemoration service next week with representatives from many countries, these people will provide a dignified commemoration, but the French, Belgian, German, Russian, Italian or Austrian representatives will not be wearing a poppy. The wearing of paper poppy is a British thing and not a multinational commemoration of war.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2014, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2014, 11:17:48 AM
I've seen a German wearing a Poppy.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/13/article-2060884-0EC86C2F00000578-283_472x423.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 06, 2014, 11:37:01 AM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haveaharp on November 06, 2014, 11:39:10 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 06, 2014, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2014, 11:17:48 AM
I've seen a German wearing a Poppy.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/13/article-2060884-0EC86C2F00000578-283_472x423.jpg)

Good shot ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 06, 2014, 11:44:46 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 06, 2014, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2014, 11:17:48 AM
I've seen a German wearing a Poppy.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/13/article-2060884-0EC86C2F00000578-283_472x423.jpg)

That's the one!!  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2014, 12:17:27 PM
Anyone got a photo of a Greek wearing a poppy?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5 Sams on November 06, 2014, 02:01:59 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2014, 02:34:10 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 05, 2014, 02:22:03 PM
As i am sure the Unionists get annoyed and antagonised by the wearing of the Easter lily. People can find offence with almost anything, if they are so inclined...

The only thing that bugs me about the poppy is its ubiquity on British television. Every year someone in the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5 and Sky is deputised to ensure that every broadcast has someone who will affix a poppy to the lapel of every presenter and every guest for at at least two weeks before Remembrance Day. There must be an army of people responsible for this, and I have an image of dancers from eastern Europe on Strictly Come Dancing doing a double-take as this is done without their permission. If the same Stepford behavior were exhibited by RTÉ with regards to any symbol, that would get on my wick too.

A few lads on the panel on Nolan Show last night NOT wearing one! Shock horror....how did they get away with it???
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 06, 2014, 02:42:13 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 06, 2014, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2014, 11:17:48 AM
I've seen a German wearing a Poppy.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/13/article-2060884-0EC86C2F00000578-283_472x423.jpg)

To be fair, Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg Gotha only ever wears one on remembrance weekend, i.e the correct way, not the way it's shoved down our throats from mid October by all the super Brits
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2014, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 06, 2014, 02:01:59 PM
A few lads on the panel on Nolan Show last night NOT wearing one! Shock horror....how did they get away with it???

Why do they love the Terrorists and hate Freedom?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2014, 03:55:45 PM
Comparing the Easter lily and the poppy isn't comparing like for like, is it?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on November 06, 2014, 09:18:25 PM
Interesting article

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/08/poppy-last-time-remembrance-harry-leslie-smith
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 07, 2014, 11:20:09 AM
Interest parallel from Kramer on Seinfeld

http://youtu.be/3iV8X8ubGCc (http://youtu.be/3iV8X8ubGCc)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 07, 2014, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 07, 2014, 11:20:09 AM
Interest parallel from Kramer on Seinfeld

http://youtu.be/3iV8X8ubGCc (http://youtu.be/3iV8X8ubGCc)

The best part is that if you were to show that video to the likes of David Cameron, they'd say "ah, but the poppy is different!"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ludermor on November 07, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/news/article/14-11-07-statement-regarding-james-mcclean-2070059.aspx
Republic of Ireland international James McClean explains poppy stance.

Wigan Athletic's Republic of Ireland international winger James McClean will not be wearing a poppy shirt tonight alongside the rest of his Wigan Athletic team mates, as the club takes part in football's annual Remembrance Day commemoration.

This is a personal decision by James, who explained his position in a letter to Latics Chairman Dave Whelan before the two met face to face to discuss the issue this week.

Following the meeting, Mr Whelan accepted James' decision and it is both their wish that the letter is published here in full, alongside this statement.  There will be no further comment on this issue by the club.


Dear Mr Whelan

I wanted to write to you before talking about this face to face and explain my reasons for not wearing a poppy on my shirt for the game at Bolton.

I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland's history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

Mr Whelan, for me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people.

I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past. I am a peaceful guy, I believe everyone should live side by side, whatever their religious or political beliefs which I respect and ask for people to respect mine in return. Since last year, I am a father and I want my daughter to grow up in a peaceful world, like any parent.

I am very proud of where I come from and I just cannot do something that I believe is wrong. In life, if you're a man you should stand up for what you believe in.

I know you may not agree with my feelings but I hope very much that you understand my reasons.

As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club's supporters this explanation.

Yours sincerely,

James McClean
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 07, 2014, 10:08:02 PM
None from Tomas O'Leary on tonights Rugby club in between Stuart Barnes and Will Greenwood
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: macdanger2 on November 08, 2014, 11:56:32 AM
Quote from: ludermor on November 07, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/news/article/14-11-07-statement-regarding-james-mcclean-2070059.aspx
Republic of Ireland international James McClean explains poppy stance.

Wigan Athletic's Republic of Ireland international winger James McClean will not be wearing a poppy shirt tonight alongside the rest of his Wigan Athletic team mates, as the club takes part in football's annual Remembrance Day commemoration.

This is a personal decision by James, who explained his position in a letter to Latics Chairman Dave Whelan before the two met face to face to discuss the issue this week.

Following the meeting, Mr Whelan accepted James' decision and it is both their wish that the letter is published here in full, alongside this statement.  There will be no further comment on this issue by the club.


Dear Mr Whelan

I wanted to write to you before talking about this face to face and explain my reasons for not wearing a poppy on my shirt for the game at Bolton.

I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland's history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

Mr Whelan, for me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people.

I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past. I am a peaceful guy, I believe everyone should live side by side, whatever their religious or political beliefs which I respect and ask for people to respect mine in return. Since last year, I am a father and I want my daughter to grow up in a peaceful world, like any parent.

I am very proud of where I come from and I just cannot do something that I believe is wrong. In life, if you're a man you should stand up for what you believe in.

I know you may not agree with my feelings but I hope very much that you understand my reasons.

As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club's supporters this explanation.

Yours sincerely,

James McClean

Well written letter, fair play to him
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 08, 2014, 11:59:47 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 08, 2014, 11:56:32 AM
Quote from: ludermor on November 07, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/news/article/14-11-07-statement-regarding-james-mcclean-2070059.aspx
Republic of Ireland international James McClean explains poppy stance.

Wigan Athletic's Republic of Ireland international winger James McClean will not be wearing a poppy shirt tonight alongside the rest of his Wigan Athletic team mates, as the club takes part in football's annual Remembrance Day commemoration.

This is a personal decision by James, who explained his position in a letter to Latics Chairman Dave Whelan before the two met face to face to discuss the issue this week.

Following the meeting, Mr Whelan accepted James' decision and it is both their wish that the letter is published here in full, alongside this statement.  There will be no further comment on this issue by the club.


Dear Mr Whelan

I wanted to write to you before talking about this face to face and explain my reasons for not wearing a poppy on my shirt for the game at Bolton.

I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland's history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

Mr Whelan, for me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people.

I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past. I am a peaceful guy, I believe everyone should live side by side, whatever their religious or political beliefs which I respect and ask for people to respect mine in return. Since last year, I am a father and I want my daughter to grow up in a peaceful world, like any parent.

I am very proud of where I come from and I just cannot do something that I believe is wrong. In life, if you're a man you should stand up for what you believe in.

I know you may not agree with my feelings but I hope very much that you understand my reasons.

As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club's supporters this explanation.

Yours sincerely,

James McClean

Well written letter, fair play to him
Wonder who wrote it for him.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 08, 2014, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 08, 2014, 11:56:32 AM
Quote from: ludermor on November 07, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/news/article/14-11-07-statement-regarding-james-mcclean-2070059.aspx
Republic of Ireland international James McClean explains poppy stance.

Wigan Athletic's Republic of Ireland international winger James McClean will not be wearing a poppy shirt tonight alongside the rest of his Wigan Athletic team mates, as the club takes part in football's annual Remembrance Day commemoration.

This is a personal decision by James, who explained his position in a letter to Latics Chairman Dave Whelan before the two met face to face to discuss the issue this week.

Following the meeting, Mr Whelan accepted James' decision and it is both their wish that the letter is published here in full, alongside this statement.  There will be no further comment on this issue by the club.


Dear Mr Whelan

I wanted to write to you before talking about this face to face and explain my reasons for not wearing a poppy on my shirt for the game at Bolton.

I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland's history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

Mr Whelan, for me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people.

I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past. I am a peaceful guy, I believe everyone should live side by side, whatever their religious or political beliefs which I respect and ask for people to respect mine in return. Since last year, I am a father and I want my daughter to grow up in a peaceful world, like any parent.

I am very proud of where I come from and I just cannot do something that I believe is wrong. In life, if you're a man you should stand up for what you believe in.

I know you may not agree with my feelings but I hope very much that you understand my reasons.

As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club's supporters this explanation.

Yours sincerely,

James McClean

Well written letter, fair play to him
LOL you think he wrote it?! Good to see he has got himself some decent PR people.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 08, 2014, 01:23:45 PM
Hardly matter who wrote it. Fair play to him for sticking to his guns, not a popular choice and hopefully others who maybe feel the same follow his lead. The poppy fascists are going into over-drive on social media  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2014, 01:47:33 PM
Expect to hear this letter debated on Big Stevie Nolan's show on Monday morning.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 08, 2014, 03:16:53 PM
Didn't the same happen last year?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 08, 2014, 03:50:43 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 08, 2014, 03:16:53 PM
Didn't the same happen last year?

Third consecutive year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: macdanger2 on November 08, 2014, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 08, 2014, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 08, 2014, 11:56:32 AM
Quote from: ludermor on November 07, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/news/article/14-11-07-statement-regarding-james-mcclean-2070059.aspx
Republic of Ireland international James McClean explains poppy stance.

Wigan Athletic's Republic of Ireland international winger James McClean will not be wearing a poppy shirt tonight alongside the rest of his Wigan Athletic team mates, as the club takes part in football's annual Remembrance Day commemoration.

This is a personal decision by James, who explained his position in a letter to Latics Chairman Dave Whelan before the two met face to face to discuss the issue this week.

Following the meeting, Mr Whelan accepted James' decision and it is both their wish that the letter is published here in full, alongside this statement.  There will be no further comment on this issue by the club.


Dear Mr Whelan

I wanted to write to you before talking about this face to face and explain my reasons for not wearing a poppy on my shirt for the game at Bolton.

I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland's history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

Mr Whelan, for me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people.

I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past. I am a peaceful guy, I believe everyone should live side by side, whatever their religious or political beliefs which I respect and ask for people to respect mine in return. Since last year, I am a father and I want my daughter to grow up in a peaceful world, like any parent.

I am very proud of where I come from and I just cannot do something that I believe is wrong. In life, if you're a man you should stand up for what you believe in.

I know you may not agree with my feelings but I hope very much that you understand my reasons.

As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club's supporters this explanation.

Yours sincerely,

James McClean

Well written letter, fair play to him
LOL you think he wrote it?! Good to see he has got himself some decent PR people.

Two separate statements 1) well written letter 2) fair play to him (for not wearing a poppy)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 08, 2014, 04:22:06 PM
James McClean doesn't have to justify himself to anyone over his decision. The fact he felt he needed to is proof, if any was required, of the attitude of poppy fascism that is all pervasive at this time of year
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 08, 2014, 04:50:50 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 08, 2014, 04:22:06 PM
James McClean doesn't have to justify himself to anyone over his decision. The fact he felt he needed to is proof, if any was required, of the attitude of poppy fascism that is all pervasive at this time of year

Nail on the head.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on November 08, 2014, 05:32:26 PM
The river of poppies (not posting a photo, its pish). Not a hint of irony for the river of blood spend by British forces in the middle east, innocent victims on both sides, the arabs and "boys" sent to the front line to do the spineless politicians bidding.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: CD on November 08, 2014, 06:21:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 08, 2014, 04:50:50 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 08, 2014, 04:22:06 PM
James McClean doesn't have to justify himself to anyone over his decision. The fact he felt he needed to is proof, if any was required, of the attitude of poppy fascism that is all pervasive at this time of year

Nail on the head.
+1 fair play to McClean and to Wigan for managing and diffusing the controversy so much more effectively than Sunderland did
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2014, 07:06:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 08, 2014, 04:22:06 PM
James McClean doesn't have to justify himself to anyone over his decision. The fact he felt he needed to is proof, if any was required, of the attitude of poppy fascism that is all pervasive at this time of year

True. The poppies on football shirts is the stupidest looking thing and should have no place in sport.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2014, 02:12:48 PM
I have changed my mind somewhat on this particular issue.

Recently I was in a country where they were everywhere, including on Irish barmen. It annoyed me no end, especially with a few drinks on me.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 02:19:13 PM
Any reaction from Dave 'we owe Mrs Thatcher a minute's silence' Whelan to McClean's letter?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 10, 2014, 02:29:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2014, 02:12:48 PM
I have changed my mind somewhat on this particular issue.

Recently I was in a country where they were everywhere, including on Irish barmen. It annoyed me no end, especially with a few drinks on me.

Where was that? I think I'd ask the barmen why they were wearing it. Not in a confrontational way, but out of interest. Was it in Canada?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 10, 2014, 02:34:33 PM
Harry backs James anyway!!

https://twitter.com/Harryslaststand/status/531046016393682944
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2014, 02:36:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 10, 2014, 02:29:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2014, 02:12:48 PM
I have changed my mind somewhat on this particular issue.

Recently I was in a country where they were everywhere, including on Irish barmen. It annoyed me no end, especially with a few drinks on me.

Where was that? I think I'd ask the barmen why they were wearing it. Not in a confrontational way, but out of interest. Was it in Canada?

I didn't ask. I couldn't understand how he would wear it and presumed it was required for work.

But they were everywhere you went.

And good guess.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: screenexile on November 10, 2014, 02:41:13 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 02:19:13 PM
Any reaction from Dave 'we owe Mrs Thatcher a minute's silence' Whelan to McClean's letter?

Whelan I think said he accepted McClean's decision. . . were we expecting some kind of backlash from him?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 10, 2014, 02:42:22 PM
The Canadians seem to be behind the poppy quite a bit, and in fairness they do seem to be very focussed on the WWI aspect of it, as opposed to the more holistic 'Defence Forces' view of things in Blighty.

An Irishman wearing a poppy in Canada to commemorate the Canadian dead of WWI wouldn't be as strange to me as an Irishman in England wearing one to commemorate all the British Army servicemen.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 02:46:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 10, 2014, 02:41:13 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 10, 2014, 02:19:13 PM
Any reaction from Dave 'we owe Mrs Thatcher a minute's silence' Whelan to McClean's letter?

Whelan I think said he accepted McClean's decision. . . were we expecting some kind of backlash from him?

I don't mind admitting I was hoping he'd say something intemperate. If he's accepted it in public, then fair play to him.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: illdecide on November 10, 2014, 03:37:55 PM
Remembrance day is held on the 2nd Sunday of November, I had to Google it there to find out the exact date as people are still wearing them today and found it's actually the 11th November...Is it safe to assume after tomorrow we won't see them again until October next year?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 10, 2014, 03:38:58 PM
It's held on Armistace day isn't it? 11th of the 11th at 11am.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 10, 2014, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 10, 2014, 03:38:58 PM
It's held on Armistace day isn't it? 11th of the 11th at 11am.

I think you mean "It's held on Armistace day, innit?"

We should all try to be more british, lol
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 10, 2014, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
People are entitled to wear a poppy if they want to. It's the pressure placed on people to wear one that annoys me.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
Was walking past a catholic church in East Belfast on Saturday night and saw a number of the congregation wearing poppies.  Were they on the wind-up too? 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 10, 2014, 07:13:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2014, 07:06:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 08, 2014, 04:22:06 PM
James McClean doesn't have to justify himself to anyone over his decision. The fact he felt he needed to is proof, if any was required, of the attitude of poppy fascism that is all pervasive at this time of year

True. The poppies on football shirts is the stupidest looking thing and should have no place in sport.

That is only a recent phenomenon isn't it?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2014, 07:43:07 PM
After tomorrow we can put this thread to bed for a bit. And everyone that is offended can be offended about something else.

It's a good thing we have our health and a computer
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: MK on November 10, 2014, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
Was walking past a catholic church in East Belfast on Saturday night and saw a number of the congregation wearing poppies.  Were they on the wind-up too? 

I have seen numerous East Belfast people wearing Glasgow Rangers Poppy badges,UFF poppy badges,Rangers Poppy wristbands,Chelsea Headhunter poppy badges to name but a few.

Surely these were on the wind up too......or did I miss their contributions to the Great War???
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: MK on November 10, 2014, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
Was walking past a catholic church in East Belfast on Saturday night and saw a number of the congregation wearing poppies.  Were they on the wind-up too? 

I have seen numerous East Belfast people wearing Glasgow Rangers Poppy badges,UFF poppy badges,Rangers Poppy wristbands,Chelsea Headhunter poppy badges to name but a few.

Surely these were on the wind up too......or did I miss their contributions to the Great War???
I was not talking about the fuckwits that you speak of.  I was referring to the, presumably, catholic parishioners wearing a poppy to their church.  Were they on the wind-up / trying to piss people off?   
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2014, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
Was walking past a catholic church in East Belfast on Saturday night and saw a number of the congregation wearing poppies.  Were they on the wind-up too?

Wearing a poppy in a country occupied by the British is bad manners at any time.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2014, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
Was walking past a catholic church in East Belfast on Saturday night and saw a number of the congregation wearing poppies.  Were they on the wind-up too?

Wearing a poppy in a country occupied by the British is bad manners at any time.
Fair enough, if that's your opinion.  However, you have not really addressed my question.  Not everyone who wears a poppy is on the wind-up or seeking to offend. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2014, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2014, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
Was walking past a catholic church in East Belfast on Saturday night and saw a number of the congregation wearing poppies.  Were they on the wind-up too?

Wearing a poppy in a country occupied by the British is bad manners at any time.
Fair enough, if that's your opinion.  However, you have not really addressed my question.  Not everyone who wears a poppy is on the wind-up or seeking to offend.

Not everyone dressed as a Nazi is either:

(http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/01/14/harry_furious_wideweb__430x417.jpg)

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2014, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2014, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
Was walking past a catholic church in East Belfast on Saturday night and saw a number of the congregation wearing poppies.  Were they on the wind-up too?

Wearing a poppy in a country occupied by the British is bad manners at any time.
Fair enough, if that's your opinion.  However, you have not really addressed my question.  Not everyone who wears a poppy is on the wind-up or seeking to offend.

Not everyone dressed as a Nazi is either:

(http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/01/14/harry_furious_wideweb__430x417.jpg)

judging by your past contributions to the Israel/Palestine threads
I thought you and Seafoid would approve of Harry's outfit...No?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 11, 2014, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 11, 2014, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2014, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2014, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2014, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 10, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
There was a women wearing one in the canteen where I work today - in Dublin.
In fairness, she was an English women only over for the day.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I've seen plenty of brits in work wearing poppies and seem oblivious that it offends or they enjoy the wind-up.
Was walking past a catholic church in East Belfast on Saturday night and saw a number of the congregation wearing poppies.  Were they on the wind-up too?

Wearing a poppy in a country occupied by the British is bad manners at any time.
Fair enough, if that's your opinion.  However, you have not really addressed my question.  Not everyone who wears a poppy is on the wind-up or seeking to offend.

Not everyone dressed as a Nazi is either:

(http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/01/14/harry_furious_wideweb__430x417.jpg)

judging by your past contributions to the Israel/Palestine threads
I thought you and Seafoid would approve of Harry's outfit...No?

I am surprised you aren't calling Prince Harry an anti-semite. That is your form isn't it? You call people anti-semites for far less. You know, for things like criticising Israel for bombing UN Schools and things like that. Shame on us. Those children deserve to die, isn't that right Sheehy?

BTW nice to see you stalking me as well as Seafoid again. I missed it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LeoMc on November 11, 2014, 02:29:53 PM
A quick question before this thread gets put to bed for another year or decends into another bitch fest (see above posts).
On sundays news coverage it refered to Enda laying a laurel wreath in Enniskillen, another Irishh government rep (the tanaiste?) laid a laurel wreath in Belfast. What is the significance of a laurel wreath as opposed to a poppy wreath?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 11, 2014, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 11, 2014, 02:29:53 PM
A quick question before this thread gets put to bed for another year or decends into another bitch fest (see above posts).
On sundays news coverage it refered to Enda laying a laurel wreath in Enniskillen, another Irishh government rep (the tanaiste?) laid a laurel wreath in Belfast. What is the significance of a laurel wreath as opposed to a poppy wreath?

Ask Hardy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2014, 02:43:58 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 10, 2014, 03:37:55 PM
Remembrance day is held on the 2nd Sunday of November, I had to Google it there to find out the exact date as people are still wearing them today and found it's actually the 11th November...Is it safe to assume after tomorrow we won't see them again until October next year?
I wouldn't bet on it, they tend to be an all year round thing for some of our PUL fellow Irishmen.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
I've only anecdotal evidence to support this, but this year the poppy wearing didn't seem to push earlier in October like it has been doing in previous years. Perhaps we've reached peak poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2014, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
I've only anecdotal evidence to support this, but this year the poppy wearing didn't seem to push earlier in October like it has been doing in previous years. Perhaps we've reached peak poppy.
No they were there at the same time, it just took someone longer to notice, be offended and post on this page.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 02:51:30 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2014, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
I've only anecdotal evidence to support this, but this year the poppy wearing didn't seem to push earlier in October like it has been doing in previous years. Perhaps we've reached peak poppy.
No they were there at the same time, it just took someone longer to notice, be offended and post on this page.

;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2014, 02:53:47 PM
So do people stop wearing poppies now that armistice day is over?

We had a 2 minutes silence at work today, marked by an announcemne on the tannoy to signal its start & finish
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2014, 03:20:02 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 11, 2014, 02:29:53 PM
. What is the significance of a laurel wreath as opposed to a poppy wreath?

1 - it's not a British poppy
2- it's green
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: illdecide on November 11, 2014, 04:09:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2014, 02:53:47 PM
So do people stop wearing poopies now that armistice day is over?

We had a 2 minutes silence at work today, marked by an announcemne on the tannoy to signal its start & finish

R u serious? who do you work for Peter Robinson?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2014, 04:14:08 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 11, 2014, 04:09:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2014, 02:53:47 PM
So do people stop wearing poppies now that armistice day is over?

We had a 2 minutes silence at work today, marked by an announcemne on the tannoy to signal its start & finish

R u serious? who do you work for Peter Robinson?
I am serious.
An email went round to say it was personal choice wether we observed it or not.
I work for a 'non-departmental public body'
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2014, 07:11:13 PM
I think you just wanted a two minute break from work.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2014, 08:12:50 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2014, 04:14:08 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 11, 2014, 04:09:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2014, 02:53:47 PM
So do people stop wearing poppies now that armistice day is over?

We had a 2 minutes silence at work today, marked by an announcemne on the tannoy to signal its start & finish

R u serious? who do you work for Peter Robinson?
I am serious.
An email went round to say it was personal choice wether we observed it or not.
I work for a 'non-departmental public body'
Did you make any noise? It'd be great craic if anybody's phone went off.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 11, 2014, 11:24:31 PM
In these reflections of the tragedy of war has there been one single comment about the civilization war dead as a result of recent foreign occupations by the US and British?

Should we remember them?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 11, 2014, 11:28:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 11, 2014, 11:24:31 PM
In these reflections of the tragedy of war has there been one single comment about the civilization war dead as a result of recent foreign occupations by the US and British?

Should we remember them?

This post raises an interesting question.

When did civilian deaths start to matter?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: blewuporstuffed on November 12, 2014, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2014, 08:12:50 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2014, 04:14:08 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 11, 2014, 04:09:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2014, 02:53:47 PM
So do people stop wearing poppies now that armistice day is over?

We had a 2 minutes silence at work today, marked by an announcemne on the tannoy to signal its start & finish

R u serious? who do you work for Peter Robinson?
I am serious.
An email went round to say it was personal choice wether we observed it or not.
I work for a 'non-departmental public body'
Did you make any noise? It'd be great craic if anybody's phone went off.
I carried on working as normal, as did most people.
There actually wasnt even that many people wearing poppies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 12, 2014, 10:17:26 AM
My final word for this year. My uncle died in WWII. I wouldn't wear a poppy. My reason is simply that I am Irish and it is a British thing. For those who want to wear poppies in Ireland North or South it is fine when for the right reasons. Unfortunately as we all know a bit like orange parades it's great that you can annoy someone by doing so. In my eyes wearing a poppy in that context demeans and undermines the sacrifices it is meant to represent. As Irish people we all myself included can not quite bring ourselves to embrace some aspects of the culture of our British neighbours. Their armies and conflicts form part of their heritage for better or worse. Many British soldiers would not want to be in Iraq, Afghanistan etc... But they do so out of a sense of duty which again as an Irishman I can't understand. In this day and age though shouldn't we be able to accept that this is part of our neighbours culture, are we not able to forgive and move on? At the end of the day many of us are happy to go to work in the UK, we support their PL teams like we were born in that town, just because we can't understand it doesn't make it wrong. Separate out those annoying PUL/DUP/UUP representatives scoring political points with it, (not unlike some of the Shinners butchering Irish), separate out the motives of the British Government and understand that ordinary Scots, ordinary Welsh people and ordinary English people support the Poppy campaign for very good reasons, their sons their daughters and indeed the sons and daughters of many an Irish family have died in uniform and they are proud of them. Don't wear one if like me it makes you uncomfortable. Finally,finally the only thing worse than a unionist using the poppy for political reasons are those in the SDLP who were laying wreaths on Sunday and wore one for exactly the same reasons.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 11:28:49 PM
This post raises an interesting question.

When did civilian deaths start to matter?

They only matter when "the other side" cause them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 11:36:19 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 11:28:49 PM
This post raises an interesting question.

When did civilian deaths start to matter?

They only matter when "the other side" cause them.

The terrorist is the one with the small bomb - Brendan Behan.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 12, 2014, 11:36:19 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 11, 2014, 11:28:49 PM
This post raises an interesting question.

When did civilian deaths start to matter?

They only matter when "the other side" cause them.

The terrorist is the one with the small bomb - Brendan Behan.

..and thus presumably the more acceptable casualty count?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2014, 10:17:26 AM
My final word for this year. My uncle died in WWII. I wouldn't wear a poppy. My reason is simply that I am Irish and it is a British thing. For those who want to wear poppies in Ireland North or South it is fine when for the right reasons. Unfortunately as we all know a bit like orange parades it's great that you can annoy someone by doing so. In my eyes wearing a poppy in that context demeans and undermines the sacrifices it is meant to represent. As Irish people we all myself included can not quite bring ourselves to embrace some aspects of the culture of our British neighbours. Their armies and conflicts form part of their heritage for better or worse. Many British soldiers would not want to be in Iraq, Afghanistan etc... But they do so out of a sense of duty which again as an Irishman I can't understand. In this day and age though shouldn't we be able to accept that this is part of our neighbours culture, are we not able to forgive and move on? At the end of the day many of us are happy to go to work in the UK, we support their PL teams like we were born in that town, just because we can't understand it doesn't make it wrong. Separate out those annoying PUL/DUP/UUP representatives scoring political points with it, (not unlike some of the Shinners butchering Irish), separate out the motives of the British Government and understand that ordinary Scots, ordinary Welsh people and ordinary English people support the Poppy campaign for very good reasons, their sons their daughters and indeed the sons and daughters of many an Irish family have died in uniform and they are proud of them. Don't wear one if like me it makes you uncomfortable. Finally,finally the only thing worse than a unionist using the poppy for political reasons are those in the SDLP who were laying wreaths on Sunday and wore one for exactly the same reasons.

It's not the British thing I have a problem with, it's the war thing.

Britain talks about peace here, as does the US, while at the same time blowing the shite out of some country.

Blair sold arms to Gaddafi then Libya is wrecked because he had arms. You couldn't make it up.

I think the Unionists wear poppies because they will do anything to be seen to support the British and the Empire. No matter how inhumane their actions, but they'll try to convince themselves they all did/do it for our freedom and all that bollix.

It's also not about the two WW's. Britain is still at war and has been for a century. And they will continue to be so because it is profitable to be so. There's no other reason for it. But you won't hear that on TV or in the Sun.

Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 12, 2014, 01:45:28 PM
+1. Whether or not you feel comfortable in contributing to a fund for ex-servicemen is one thing, but I don't think doing so necessarily implies you supported the war they fought in. The way the USA shunned the ex-servicemen coming home from Vietnam shows the damage that can do. So you can hate the war, but try help the detritus, which includes the people who had to fight there.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 12, 2014, 01:56:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

I thinks that's exactly the narrow perspective the British Establishment would want us all to take. The gaze is firmly on the noble soldiers who lost their lives when the bugle sounds. Not a word about the murdered innocents or indeed the murdering powerbrokers. I'm sure the multi multi millionaire Tony BLiar would agree with that opinion.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Feckitt on November 12, 2014, 01:56:45 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 11, 2014, 08:35:07 PM
......and their ringtone was "Go on home British Soldiers".

Haha, now that would be classic
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 01:59:49 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 12, 2014, 01:45:28 PM
+1. Whether or not you feel comfortable in contributing to a fund for ex-servicemen is one thing, but I don't think doing so necessarily implies you supported the war they fought in. The way the USA shunned the ex-servicemen coming home from Vietnam shows the damage that can do. So you can hate the war, but try help the detritus, which includes the people who had to fight there.

I would definitely have sympathy for conscripts or those drafted, but my greatest sympathy would be for the civilians who had the war imposed on them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 12, 2014, 02:00:48 PM
Absolutely. It's not mutually exclusive though.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 03:23:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

Why would I have sympathy for any soldier who was wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan? What did they think they would do when they signed up for the army? Herding sheep? Flower arranging? Those drafted due to conscription, yes, but not those who volunteered. And if they volunteer to fight for the elitists, the elitists should be looking after them, not a charity.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 03:55:36 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 12, 2014, 01:56:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

I thinks that's exactly the narrow perspective the British Establishment would want us all to take. The gaze is firmly on the noble soldiers who lost their lives when the bugle sounds. Not a word about the murdered innocents or indeed the murdering powerbrokers. I'm sure the multi multi millionaire Tony BLiar would agree with that opinion.

I don't know about you, but I'm more than capable of thinking for myself, thanks very much.

Take Andy Allen, the young lad from Belfast, for example. He has my every sympathy and a considerable amount of respect. This comes not from David Cameron telling me to think like that, but rather from basic humanity. At the same time, I am still very much anti-war, leftist and outraged at the mass loss of civilian life
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 03:23:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

Why would I have sympathy for any soldier who was wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan? What did they think they would do when they signed up for the army? Herding sheep? Flower arranging? Those drafted due to conscription, yes, but not those who volunteered. And if they volunteer to fight for the elitists, the elitists should be looking after them, not a charity.

Did I say you should? I was merely pointing out that it is perfectly possible to both maintain an anti-war stance and sympathise with soldiers who are wounded and traumatised as a result of their experiences.

Say a 17 year old from Belfast signs up. He's grown up on the poverty line his entire life. Dad and brothers are in prison. Friends are junkies. Ma doesn't give a shit about him. Drops out of school at 16. No work in Shorts or the shipyards. Can't get himself a trade. Is actively targeted by recruiters, sees a chance to earn some cash and get a bit of stability in his life. Signs up, does a couple of months training and is shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan and promptly gets his limbs blown off. You'd have no sympathy for this character? None at all?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 04:09:48 PM
Britain is becoming more and more like America every year, where the armed forces are put on a pedestal and hero worshipped. It has nothing to do with looking after ex soldiers. It has everything to do with governments winning unquestioning approval for their foreign policy decisions by brainwashing the public into thinking that everyone in military uniform is a hero deserving of its support. They do this by conflating in peoples' minds the heroism of conscripts who stopped the Nazis, or the tragedy of 14 year olds signing up for the Great War, with less heroic, more controversial conflicts, such as the illegal war in Iraq. I have nothing against individuals wearing poppies, but I do find obnoxious the tv companies and the football teams who buy into the government's insidious agenda by making it compulsory for anyone appearing on the box or playing in a match to wear one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 03:23:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

Why would I have sympathy for any soldier who was wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan? What did they think they would do when they signed up for the army? Herding sheep? Flower arranging? Those drafted due to conscription, yes, but not those who volunteered. And if they volunteer to fight for the elitists, the elitists should be looking after them, not a charity.

Did I say you should? I was merely pointing out that it is perfectly possible to both maintain an anti-war stance and sympathise with soldiers who are wounded and traumatised as a result of their experiences.

Say a 17 year old from Belfast signs up. He's grown up on the poverty line his entire life. Dad and brothers are in prison. Friends are junkies. Ma doesn't give a shit about him. Drops out of school at 16. No work in Shorts or the shipyards. Can't get himself a trade. Is actively targeted by recruiters, sees a chance to earn some cash and get a bit of stability in his life. Signs up, does a couple of months training and is shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan and promptly gets his limbs blown off. You'd have no sympathy for this character? None at all?
that's what I was thinking.
a lot of these kids join up as they have no other job prospects.
last thing they wanted was to have to head to Afghanistan, Iraq and the north of Ireland!

these lads are generally uneducated and not politically motivated (though might become so through some kind of indoctrination when they get to a war zone  - like the aforementioned places)

I have always felt some sympathy for these lads. a lot of you wont agree I know.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 12, 2014, 04:12:25 PM
Poppyganda?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 12, 2014, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 03:23:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

Why would I have sympathy for any soldier who was wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan? What did they think they would do when they signed up for the army? Herding sheep? Flower arranging? Those drafted due to conscription, yes, but not those who volunteered. And if they volunteer to fight for the elitists, the elitists should be looking after them, not a charity.
Rather simplistic view, yes governments should do more. But this is their army, their soldiers, their brothers and sisters and it is their right to support the poppy fund. In the same way it is my right as an Irishman to fell that I have nothing in common with these soldiers and in view of the actions of some of that armies members in Ireland I can't wear a poppy. Many US citizens, including Tony's favourite Bruce Springsteen are against what the US government are doing but are very supportive of their soldiers.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 12, 2014, 04:59:54 PM
It's a bit like the old Billy Connolly joke about the recruiting sergeant who signs up the lad for the army "the next thing you know you're batterin' down the Falls road with a gun in your hand, the best laxative known to man".
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 03:23:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

Why would I have sympathy for any soldier who was wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan? What did they think they would do when they signed up for the army? Herding sheep? Flower arranging? Those drafted due to conscription, yes, but not those who volunteered. And if they volunteer to fight for the elitists, the elitists should be looking after them, not a charity.

Did I say you should? I was merely pointing out that it is perfectly possible to both maintain an anti-war stance and sympathise with soldiers who are wounded and traumatised as a result of their experiences.

Say a 17 year old from Belfast signs up. He's grown up on the poverty line his entire life. Dad and brothers are in prison. Friends are junkies. Ma doesn't give a shit about him. Drops out of school at 16. No work in Shorts or the shipyards. Can't get himself a trade. Is actively targeted by recruiters, sees a chance to earn some cash and get a bit of stability in his life. Signs up, does a couple of months training and is shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan and promptly gets his limbs blown off. You'd have no sympathy for this character? None at all?

None whatsoever.

Humanity was mentioned earlier regarding injured soldiers. Wheres the humanity in these soldiers going to the Middle East and murdering innocent civilians?

The Provos/UVF are always criticised for some actions, and rightly so, but there's no difference to what the provos/UVF etc did/are doing than these soldiers. These soldiers are just legal paramilitaries.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 12, 2014, 05:15:13 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 04:09:48 PM
Britain is becoming more and more like America every year, where the armed forces are put on a pedestal and hero worshipped. It has nothing to do with looking after ex soldiers. It has everything to do with governments winning unquestioning approval for their foreign policy decisions by brainwashing the public into thinking that everyone in military uniform is a hero deserving of its support. They do this by conflating in peoples' minds the heroism of conscripts who stopped the Nazis, or the tragedy of 14 year olds signing up for the Great War, with less heroic, more controversial conflicts, such as the illegal war in Iraq. I have nothing against individuals wearing poppies, but I do find obnoxious the tv companies and the football teams who buy into the government's insidious agenda by making it compulsory for anyone appearing on the box or playing in a match to wear one.

And couple that with the main arms manufacturers backing the poppy appeal and raising the awareness then you see the agenda driven nature of the whole thing and that doesn't even scratch the surface in terms of the politicization of it over here.  There is a real kick back towards the notion of imperialism in Britain at the minute and jingoistic politics is the calling card for the masses.  A skewed One nation philosophy is what is being peddled and it is dangerous.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 05:18:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 03:23:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 12:36:31 PM
Millions were against Iraq, yet the money they give to the Poppy appeal goes to soldiers who fought there. So they are pro-war, no matter how you try to dress it up.

You know, it is possible to be anti war and still have some humanity left in you that you want to help care for the hundreds or thousands of (largely) young men coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing a foot, a leg, a hand, an arm or an eye etc, the vast majority of whom were out there doing their jobs because their superiors told them to..

Why would I have sympathy for any soldier who was wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan? What did they think they would do when they signed up for the army? Herding sheep? Flower arranging? Those drafted due to conscription, yes, but not those who volunteered. And if they volunteer to fight for the elitists, the elitists should be looking after them, not a charity.

Did I say you should? I was merely pointing out that it is perfectly possible to both maintain an anti-war stance and sympathise with soldiers who are wounded and traumatised as a result of their experiences.

Say a 17 year old from Belfast signs up. He's grown up on the poverty line his entire life. Dad and brothers are in prison. Friends are junkies. Ma doesn't give a shit about him. Drops out of school at 16. No work in Shorts or the shipyards. Can't get himself a trade. Is actively targeted by recruiters, sees a chance to earn some cash and get a bit of stability in his life. Signs up, does a couple of months training and is shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan and promptly gets his limbs blown off. You'd have no sympathy for this character? None at all?

None whatsoever.

Humanity was mentioned earlier regarding injured soldiers. Wheres the humanity in these soldiers going to the Middle East and murdering innocent civilians?

The Provos/UVF are always criticised for some actions, and rightly so, but there's no difference to what the provos/UVF etc did/are doing than these soldiers. These soldiers are just legal paramilitaries.

Let's be clear here. These soldiers don't just "go to the Middle East" and start bombing and shooting - they are sent there by their commanders.

As pointed out earlier, outrage over illegal wars and the horrors inflicted on local populations as a result of these wars is not mutually exclusive with having sympathy with some poor bastard who gets blown to bits.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 05:33:25 PM
Quote from: mickey80 on November 12, 2014, 04:16:53 PM
your clubs name is still dirt in most GAA clubs in West Belfast after your vote in favour of allowing them to play our games and become part of our association.
Oh  FFS go and join up with Willie Frazer somewhere  :(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 06:09:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 05:33:25 PM
Quote from: mickey80 on November 12, 2014, 04:16:53 PM
your clubs name is still dirt in most GAA clubs in West Belfast after your vote in favour of allowing them to play our games and become part of our association.
Oh  FFS go and join up with Willie Frazer somewhere  :(

Dunno how I missed this! I couldn't care less what he thinks and I really struggle to see the relevance of his blustering to this debate.

Mickey, Rossfan's comparison with Wullie is particularly appropriate. In his world it doesn't matter what the majority vote for if "the majority of the majority" don't vote the same way. Walt.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 06:39:35 PM
On a side issue, was the removal of Rule 21 an all-Ireland vote? And if so, why?!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 06:40:09 PM
Quote from: mickey80 on November 12, 2014, 06:25:18 PM
You don't see the relevance of wishing to feel sorry for a British soldier as a member of the West Belfast community (or your club certainly is anyway), in which the British Army wreaked havoc with immunity for years?

And you don't see any relevance in your club voting in favour of removing Rule 21 (the rule which banned British Soldiers and her majesty's police force) and other clubs in West Belfast being disgusted with yours for it??

But sure call me a walt. Maybe your father wasn't murdered by the British Army but mines was. Maybe your house wasn't smashed in by the Brits when you were a child but mines was.

Your dismissal of Rossfan because he's not from West Belfast or the North says it all. "You can't have a valid opinion because you didn't grow up blah blah blah".

I didn't say I don't see any relevance between perception of a club and it's voting history - in case you haven't realised, that's not what the debate is about. What I don't see the relevance of is how St. Galls voted when it comes to Rule 21 and whether or not it's possible to feel sympathy for individual soldiers whilst still condemning a war, but please, feel free to enlighten us. You're twisting yourself in so many circles you don't know what point you're trying to make.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 06:41:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 06:39:35 PM
On a side issue, was the removal of Rule 21 an all-Ireland vote? And if so, why?!

Because the GAA is a 32 county (and more!) organisation ffs! That's not the discussion here though.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 06:41:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 06:39:35 PM
On a side issue, was the removal of Rule 21 an all-Ireland vote? And if so, why?!

Because the GAA is a 32 county (and more!) organisation ffs! That's not the discussion here though.

Yes but it only affects six counties. What would a fella on the Beara peninsula know about the security forces in the North, collusion, intimidation of nationalists etc etc?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 07:29:28 PM
I suspect a lot of GAA members were not  very happy with many of the actions of the Provos, many of which caused anguish to a lot of members of the Nationalist Community in the North over the years so should they be banned from membership too I wonder?.
As for only allowing GAA members from the 6 Cos to vote on the Rule 21 abolition.... come on lads wise up. As pointed out the GAA is a 32 County organisation and ALL it's delegates have a right to vote at Congresses.
The less bans we have the better anyway in this day and age ( or indeed in any day or age)
Positivity is the way to go and come out from behind the barricades of negativity.

As for poppy wearing .. I will NEVER do such a thing.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 07:29:28 PM
I suspect a lot of GAA members were not  very happy with many of the actions of the Provos, many of which caused anguish to a lot of members of the Nationalist Community in the North over the years so should they be banned from membership too I wonder?.
As for only allowing GAA members from the 6 Cos to vote on the Rule 21 abolition.... come on lads wise up. As pointed out the GAA is a 32 County organisation and ALL it's delegates have a right to vote at Congresses.
The less bans we have the better anyway in this day and age ( or indeed in any day or age)
Positivity is the way to go and come out from behind the barricades of negativity.

As for poppy wearing .. I will NEVER do such a thing.
Many GAA folk joined the IRA because of the treatment dished out to them by ruc/colluding 'security' forces purely because of them being GAA folk!
The lads that joined up didn't love violence but were driven to it!

I felt/feel sorry for the young army lads. However despite mostly only following orders from above , many got too fond of going postal on the nationalist/ catholic / Irish community in the six counties.

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .
Badly handled but this is now in the past.

One other point in response to another poster - there were as many , if not more
rebels in north Derry !!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2014, 08:19:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 07:29:28 PM
I suspect a lot of GAA members were not  very happy with many of the actions of the Provos, many of which caused anguish to a lot of members of the Nationalist Community in the North over the years so should they be banned from membership too I wonder?.
As for only allowing GAA members from the 6 Cos to vote on the Rule 21 abolition.... come on lads wise up. As pointed out the GAA is a 32 County organisation and ALL it's delegates have a right to vote at Congresses.
The less bans we have the better anyway in this day and age ( or indeed in any day or age)
Positivity is the way to go and come out from behind the barricades of negativity.

As for poppy wearing .. I will NEVER do such a thing.

Easy for a free stater to pontificate from that side of the border.

I take it these are the same GAA members who couldn't contain themselves with excitement for the Queens visit. God save her.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2014, 08:32:15 PM
Do Easter Lillies annoy unionists?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: SHEEDY on November 12, 2014, 08:36:40 PM
girl in work still wearing a poppy today and another fella has one taped to the side of his computer all year round!!!  >:( 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:39:10 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 12, 2014, 08:36:40 PM
girl in work still wearing a poppy today and another fella has one taped to the side of his computer all year round!!!  >:(

Id rip it off and make the **** eat it!

Whatever happened to no symbols in the workplace? Unless you're in an orchestra.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2014, 08:40:31 PM
Total hanging offence that one!! Bring back the birch
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:41:47 PM
As a Down man the mention of rule 21 brings on a sense of shame.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Complete ballacks.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Complete ballacks.
read Brian Fenny s colume in today's Irish News. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2014, 08:52:55 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:41:47 PM
As a Down man the mention of rule 21 brings on a sense of shame.

A sense of shame of what the security forces did during those years.

Ditto Enda Kenny's rant today in the dail. He's doing his very best to divert attention from the Water debate.
He's all into 32 county politics when it suits him.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 09:14:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.
No harm to you, but your pov is idiotic!
However it is your point of view.

Just to answer your 'question' - quite easily.
The ban would have been lifted in the 26 counties at the time agreed and occurred ( not that it had or made one iota of difference to anyone outside of ulster plus maybe Louth and Leitrim.
The ban would start to be phased in on 'trial basis' for certain elements six months later in the 6 counties and in full after another 6 months.
What issues would that have made?
Those anti GAA wouldn't have cared. The GAA folk in ulster and 6 counties who had suffered for their GAA association would have been mostly placated by this acknowledgement .

A lot of the 'abandonment ' and feeling of being betrayed by their own association has not been forgotten by a lot of Gaels I know in north and mid Derry at least.

But I'm sure you know better!!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 09:15:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
+1
Spot on Benny
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Complete ballacks.
read Brian Fenny s colume in today's Irish News.
It's too late to buy it and unavailable online - care to summarise his main points?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 10:08:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 09:15:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
+1
Spot on Benny

Regardless of what they know or believe, when it comes to the rules of the GAA, their voices count too. You can't have an All Ireland organisation and then demand that different rules should apply to different parts of it.

Other than the symbolism of it, what has the abolishment of the rule done? A couple of exhibition games involving the PSNI? A few lads working for the PSNI and playing for their club (Ronan Kerr scandalously lost his life because of this ffs)? If their club mates accept them, what business is it of yours?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 09:14:02 PM
A lot of the 'abandonment ' and feeling of being betrayed by their own association has not been forgotten by a lot of Gaels I know in north and mid Derry at least.


So how are they worse off now than before the Rule was abolished that gives those feelings of "abondonment and betrayal"?

The organisation made a decision in accordance with its rules. Accept it and get on with organising/playing Gaelic games which is what the GAA is for - else get out of the GAA.
You either want an All Ireland organisation or 2 separate organisations - a 6 Co and 26 Co one - or one with separate rules in both jurisdictions - Partitionism at its worst.
If the majority of the GAA aren't "pure " enough for some 6 Co extremists - they're still the majority.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Complete ballacks.
read Brian Fenny s colume in today's Irish News.
It's too late to buy it and unavailable online - care to summarise his main points?

£500 million patten pay off, £250 million compo for hearing loss for RUC men, £250 million udr/rir payoff,  £20 million ruc reserve, £100 million rehiring those who were retired through patten.  Yet they can't find £340,000 for the ombudsman s budget. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Complete ballacks.
read Brian Fenny s colume in today's Irish News.
It's too late to buy it and unavailable online - care to summarise his main points?

£500 million patten pay off, £250 million compo for hearing loss for RUC men, £250 million udr/rir payoff,  £20 million ruc reserve, £100 million rehiring those who were retired through patten.  Yet they can't find £340,000 for the ombudsman s budget.

While shambolic, that's not really anything related to your "Differerent name, same scum" comment, is it?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 11:21:09 PM
You obviously don't read what you reply too. But I do agree they are same name scum.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:03:37 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 10:08:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 09:15:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
+1
Spot on Benny

Regardless of what they know or believe, when it comes to the rules of the GAA, their voices count too. You can't have an All Ireland organisation and then demand that different rules should apply to different parts of it.

Other than the symbolism of it, what has the abolishment of the rule done? A couple of exhibition games involving the PSNI? A few lads working for the PSNI and playing for their club (Ronan Kerr scandalously lost his life because of this ffs)? If their club mates accept them, what business is it of yours?
It's now history but
It wouldn't have been two sets of rules

It would have been implementing the new ruling in the 26 counties first to ensure it worked ok
Then
Phasing it in over the year in the six counties

But the (lack of imo) logic in your ideology would have England Scotland and wales voting in the recent Scottish referendum
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:05:19 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 09:14:02 PM
A lot of the 'abandonment ' and feeling of being betrayed by their own association has not been forgotten by a lot of Gaels I know in north and mid Derry at least.


So how are they worse off now than before the Rule was abolished that gives those feelings of "abondonment and betrayal"?

The organisation made a decision in accordance with its rules. Accept it and get on with organising/playing Gaelic games which is what the GAA is for - else get out of the GAA.
You either want an All Ireland organisation or 2 separate organisations - a 6 Co and 26 Co one - or one with separate rules in both jurisdictions - Partitionism at its worst.
If the majority of the GAA aren't "pure " enough for some 6 Co extremists - they're still the majority.
That's even dafter than your prev post IMO!

Point out where I or anyone refuse to accept that or any other ruling!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:07:55 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Complete ballacks.
read Brian Fenny s colume in today's Irish News.
It's too late to buy it and unavailable online - care to summarise his main points?

£500 million patten pay off, £250 million compo for hearing loss for RUC men, £250 million udr/rir payoff,  £20 million ruc reserve, £100 million rehiring those who were retired through patten.  Yet they can't find £340,000 for the ombudsman s budget.

While shambolic, that's not really anything related to your "Differerent name, same scum" comment, is it?
Just as a matter of interest - what has changed? How are they different - apart from the name change?

All New top hierarchy ?
Sacked all old cops and hired completely new set?
New cop shops and abandoned all the old ones?
Etc....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 13, 2014, 07:39:43 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Complete ballacks.
read Brian Fenny s colume in today's Irish News.
It's too late to buy it and unavailable online - care to summarise his main points?

£500 million patten pay off, £250 million compo for hearing loss for RUC men, £250 million udr/rir payoff,  £20 million ruc reserve, £100 million rehiring those who were retired through patten.  Yet they can't find £340,000 for the ombudsman s budget.

While shambolic, that's not really anything related to your "Differerent name, same scum" comment, is it?
+1
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 13, 2014, 07:52:13 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:07:55 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Complete ballacks.
read Brian Fenny s colume in today's Irish News.
It's too late to buy it and unavailable online - care to summarise his main points?

£500 million patten pay off, £250 million compo for hearing loss for RUC men, £250 million udr/rir payoff,  £20 million ruc reserve, £100 million rehiring those who were retired through patten.  Yet they can't find £340,000 for the ombudsman s budget.

While shambolic, that's not really anything related to your "Differerent name, same scum" comment, is it?
Just as a matter of interest - what has changed? How are they different - apart from the name change?

All New top hierarchy ?
Sacked all old cops and hired completely new set?
New cop shops and abandoned all the old ones?
Etc....
Police numbers down from over 13,000 to just over 7,000.
Over 30% of that 7,000 is now made up people from a catholic/nationalist/republican background, compared to about 9% in RUC days.
New accountability mechanisms (PCSPs, Policing Board) consisting of elected representatives such as Gerry Kelly and other Shinners.
Huge number of 'cop shops' closed, nearly 40% according to this report: 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15971776
Police patrols no longer accompanied by the British Army.
No real change my arse.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 08:43:37 AM
The IRA have been on ceasefire for years and decommissioned, yet still people are arrested for past membership, meanwhile the uvf basically does whatever it likes, shooting people, dealing drugs, burning down alliance members offices, orchestrating civil unrest when the notion takes. They don't get arrested though, they get invited on to tv and radio shows, or to meetings with the first minister about marches and flags. No money for an enquiry into Ballymurhy, Loughinisland etc but plenty to facilitate loyalist protests at Twadwell. The membership of the police may have changed but the top brass remain the same.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 13, 2014, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 08:43:37 AM
The IRA have been on ceasefire for years and decommissioned, yet still people are arrested for past membership, meanwhile the uvf basically does whatever it likes, shooting people, dealing drugs, burning down alliance members offices, orchestrating civil unrest when the notion takes. They don't get arrested though, they get invited on to tv and radio shows, or to meetings with the first minister about marches and flags. No money for an enquiry into Ballymurhy, Loughinisland etc but plenty to facilitate loyalist protests at Twadwell. The membership of the police may have changed but the top brass remain the same.

Correct.

the 30% Myles is rattling on about are low level grunts, very ,very few even remotely in middle management let alone the policy making levels where its still the sole preserve of the Mervyns and the likes.

Remember, the only time the cops waded into loyalist protestors was when yer man who has just left brought in cops from UK police forces for the G8 in Fermanagh and kept them here for a week or two thereafter for the Ardoyne parade.
The PSNI pussyfoot around them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 13, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 08:43:37 AM
The IRA have been on ceasefire for years and decommissioned, yet still people are arrested for past membership, meanwhile the uvf basically does whatever it likes, shooting people, dealing drugs, burning down alliance members offices, orchestrating civil unrest when the notion takes. They don't get arrested though, they get invited on to tv and radio shows, or to meetings with the first minister about marches and flags. No money for an enquiry into Ballymurhy, Loughinisland etc but plenty to facilitate loyalist protests at Twadwell. The membership of the police may have changed but the top brass remain the same.
That's nonsense. How many hundreds of loyalists have been arrested and charged after various riots in the past couple of years? Who do you think did the arresting and charging - traffic wardens maybe? Odd that you think the PSNI are biased against republicans. Loyalists think exactly the opposite:
http://www.u.tv/News/HET-denies-anti-loyalist-bias-claim/b160e330-142e-444d-81ab-9773e676ccbc
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 13, 2014, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: mickey80 on November 12, 2014, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 06:40:09 PM
Quote from: mickey80 on November 12, 2014, 06:25:18 PM
You don't see the relevance of wishing to feel sorry for a British soldier as a member of the West Belfast community (or your club certainly is anyway), in which the British Army wreaked havoc with immunity for years?

And you don't see any relevance in your club voting in favour of removing Rule 21 (the rule which banned British Soldiers and her majesty's police force) and other clubs in West Belfast being disgusted with yours for it??

But sure call me a walt. Maybe your father wasn't murdered by the British Army but mines was. Maybe your house wasn't smashed in by the Brits when you were a child but mines was.

Your dismissal of Rossfan because he's not from West Belfast or the North says it all. "You can't have a valid opinion because you didn't grow up blah blah blah".

I didn't say I don't see any relevance between perception of a club and it's voting history - in case you haven't realised, that's not what the debate is about. What I don't see the relevance of is how St. Galls voted when it comes to Rule 21 and whether or not it's possible to feel sympathy for individual soldiers whilst still condemning a war, but please, feel free to enlighten us. You're twisting yourself in so many circles you don't know what point you're trying to make.

Or maybe you didn't read my contribution to the debate?  All you seem to have read was the last few lines of it.
The issue of Rule 21 is completely relevant.  How could a vote to change a rule barring the permission of British Army personnel into our association not be relevant in communities such as West Belfast, South Derry, East Tyrone, South Armagh and many more in terms of the feeling of sympathy to British soldiers? 

Brits are mercenaries in the most as you have already stated.  Plenty more avenues to get yourself ahead instead of entering a war machine that following orders or not brings horror to the lives of millions in their own countries.  They deserve no sympathy whatsoever.  Their amputated legs and arms are medals of shame.
Mickey you have some serious issues there. You are letting blind hatred win over reason. Perhaps because of the way you lost your dad. But times have moved on and the GFA whilst far from perfect shows us that there is another way. We can all live in the past and hate the Brits or we can try and deal with the past and move on. Part of that is recognizing the right of the other peoples including the British to their own culture and identity. Why would we deny any Irishman in those circumstances the right to join the GAA because of his job?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 13, 2014, 09:58:35 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 13, 2014, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 08:43:37 AM
The IRA have been on ceasefire for years and decommissioned, yet still people are arrested for past membership, meanwhile the uvf basically does whatever it likes, shooting people, dealing drugs, burning down alliance members offices, orchestrating civil unrest when the notion takes. They don't get arrested though, they get invited on to tv and radio shows, or to meetings with the first minister about marches and flags. No money for an enquiry into Ballymurhy, Loughinisland etc but plenty to facilitate loyalist protests at Twadwell. The membership of the police may have changed but the top brass remain the same.

Correct.

the 30% Myles is rattling on about are low level grunts, very ,very few even remotely in middle management let alone the policy making levels where its still the sole preserve of the Mervyns and the likes.

Remember, the only time the cops waded into loyalist protestors was when yer man who has just left brought in cops from UK police forces for the G8 in Fermanagh and kept them here for a week or two thereafter for the Ardoyne parade.
The PSNI pussyfoot around them.
Correct about the very top tier of management in the PSNI - it'll take a while for those who came in after 2000 to work their way through - but it's already happening at middle management level.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 13, 2014, 09:58:43 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2014, 08:19:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 07:29:28 PM
I suspect a lot of GAA members were not  very happy with many of the actions of the Provos, many of which caused anguish to a lot of members of the Nationalist Community in the North over the years so should they be banned from membership too I wonder?.
As for only allowing GAA members from the 6 Cos to vote on the Rule 21 abolition.... come on lads wise up. As pointed out the GAA is a 32 County organisation and ALL it's delegates have a right to vote at Congresses.
The less bans we have the better anyway in this day and age ( or indeed in any day or age)
Positivity is the way to go and come out from behind the barricades of negativity.

As for poppy wearing .. I will NEVER do such a thing.

Easy for a free stater to pontificate from that side of the border.

I take it these are the same GAA members who couldn't contain themselves with excitement for the Queens visit. God save her.
Partitionist nonsense.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Brick Tamlin on November 13, 2014, 10:04:00 AM
The whole lot of yiz aren't f**kin wise.
Life's too short.
Its time people started to look forward rather than back.
Sicken yer sh!te.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 13, 2014, 10:09:54 AM
I despair, and I thought only the PUL's were living in the past.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 10:16:23 AM
Why pretend everything is perfect when it clearly isn't?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 10:25:46 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 10:16:23 AM
Why pretend everything is perfect when it clearly isn't?

Who claimed it was perfect?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 13, 2014, 10:27:38 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 10:16:23 AM
Why pretend everything is perfect when it clearly isn't?
I didn't read one post that indicated the situation is perfect. It is far better than it ever was. Maybe you want to go back to checkpoints, harassment, shoot to kill, collusion etc. As Brick says yiz aren't wise.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 10:33:36 AM
When the tricolour flies over city hall. That's when I will be happy and I make no apology for it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 13, 2014, 10:47:29 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 10:33:36 AM
When the tricolour flies over city hall. That's when I will be happy and I make no apology for it.
You are going to die sad then.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 10:56:59 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2014, 10:47:29 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 13, 2014, 10:33:36 AM
When the tricolour flies over city hall. That's when I will be happy and I make no apology for it.
You are going to die sad then.
Indeed - because when the United Ireland/All Ireland State comes there will be a new Flag. ;)
Meanwhile Charlie and Willie F.  can fly whatever flags they like from their own houses.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 11:51:35 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 13, 2014, 07:52:13 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:07:55 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2014, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 12, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2014, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 12, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

Rule 21 should have been brought in for the 26 counties and phased in to the 6 counties as a mark of respect for the suffering caused to northern Gaels .

Daftness with a capital D. How exactly would it be "phased in" ???? County by County?
The ban was removed as a result of the new Political agreement ion the 6 Cos and because a new(ish) Police service was being introduced.
It was mainly so young Nationalists could join the new Service and remain members of the GAA.
Anyway it was the removal of a ban NOT making it compulsory for members of the RUC/British Army to become members of the GAA.

I agree with lynchboy on rule 21. Most in the 26 have no idea about the North's security forces situation. That's like me voting on a law involving Maoris.

And it wasn't a new police force. Different name, same scum.
Complete ballacks.
read Brian Fenny s colume in today's Irish News.
It's too late to buy it and unavailable online - care to summarise his main points?

£500 million patten pay off, £250 million compo for hearing loss for RUC men, £250 million udr/rir payoff,  £20 million ruc reserve, £100 million rehiring those who were retired through patten.  Yet they can't find £340,000 for the ombudsman s budget.

While shambolic, that's not really anything related to your "Differerent name, same scum" comment, is it?
Just as a matter of interest - what has changed? How are they different - apart from the name change?

All New top hierarchy ?
Sacked all old cops and hired completely new set?
New cop shops and abandoned all the old ones?
Etc....
Police numbers down from over 13,000 to just over 7,000.
Over 30% of that 7,000 is now made up people from a catholic/nationalist/republican background, compared to about 9% in RUC days.
New accountability mechanisms (PCSPs, Policing Board) consisting of elected representatives such as Gerry Kelly and other Shinners.
Huge number of 'cop shops' closed, nearly 40% according to this report: 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15971776
Police patrols no longer accompanied by the British Army.
No real change my arse.
to be fair myles- there is some change, about 30-40% from the stats you quoted

but its still less than a pass rate in the lowest of exams.
and while stats can hide things (either way) a lot of people in Derry city for example are up in arms over the way the city is being policed with people harassed and aggravated on a daily basis - as bad as yesteryear according to them

the top brass still call the shots and maybe the middle management are changing- that will take a long time to fully happen, the top boys will have to be promoted over to England etc or die/retire for the highest levels to finally be impartial and decent.

so while I understand your assentation's, and agree that progress is being made- there is still a long way to go and so far it is still not up to scratch! (though they are prob equally as inefficient as the gardai)

the flag will not change. it will be our Tricolour! (didn't I hear in a prev post that minorities didn't have a say over such matters- its the will of the entire 32 counties - but hypocrisy from this source wouldn't surprise me!!)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 11:57:08 AM
http://stopwar.org.uk/news/good-for-the-killing-business-how-the-world-s-biggest-arms-dealers-exploit-remembrance-day#.VGSSLHhv7Io.facebook

Quote
THERE ARE few industries with as much to be ashamed of as the arms trade. It is a trade that for generations has profiteered from grotesque human rights abuses and deadly wars and conflicts.

Every year its weapons facilitate the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, as it hands over extortionate profits and dividends to rich businessmen that appear to care little for the damage done by their wars.

As the nation marks Remembrance Day you might expect that if there is one industry that should be keeping a low profile it's the arms trade.

Unfortunately not. Despite its history of war profiteering it has only been too happy to exploit the legacy of those who have died in conflicts and to brazenly associate itself with the annual memorials.

One arms company that has a long and inglorious history of arming some of the world's most brutal dictatorships, Thales, has taken the opportunity to brand the entrance of Westminster underground station with a poppy covered billboard.

Lockheed Martin, the world's biggest arms company, is the main sponsor of the British Legion Young Professionals' Poppy Rocks event. Unfortunately this is far from the first time that the Legion has taken money from the arms trade.

The UK's biggest arms company, BAE Systems, has been a long-standing 'supporter'. In the past it has sponsored national poppy appeals and donated to fund-raising drives. It's influence is still there, but now it keep a lower profile. This year they will be sponsoring the annual Poppy Ball white tie dinner, and specific offices and arms factories will be hosting their own local events.

The Legion has been co-opted for the interests of the arms trade before. In 2012 a newspaper investigation forced the then president of the Legion, Lieutenant General Sir John Kiszely, to resign over allegations that former commanders were using their connections to lobby on behalf of arms companies.

Kiszely himself told an undercover reporter, who was pretending to work for a South Korean arms company, that the annual Remembrance Day ceremony was a 'tremendous networking opportunity' before boasting of the access it gave him to powerful people.

Arms companies and World War One

All of these companies would rather we ignored the role their industry has played in enabling war, both during World War One and in subsequent conflicts.

The Arming All Sides project exposes the hidden history of World War One. It tells of how a global network of arms companies fuelled war by selling a new generation of advanced weapons to anyone who would pay for them.

It was this drive for profits at all costs that led British arms companies, Armstrong and Vickers - which later merged to become BAE - to sell weapons to the Ottoman Empire that would soon be turned on British soldiers.

Moreover, as international tensions created new business opportunities, some arms companies purposely created war scares in order to increase the arms race. For example, Herbert Mulliner, director of Coventry Ordnance Works, persuaded the British government in 1909, with the support of the Daily Mail, that Germany was secretly accelerating its naval programme. The scare stimulated massive naval expenditure and created an atmosphere of mutual suspicion, making war more likely. Even Winston Churchill later accepted that the claims were entirely false.

World War One was shaped by weapons. It was the first global conflict since the industrial revolution, and the new generation of mechanised arms led to devastating casualties. Attempts had been made to ban Chemical Warfare as early as 1899, but the arms trade persevered, and gas killed 25,000 on the Western front alone.

It's for this reason that the tragedies of the time should never be forgotten, let alone airbrushed over by an arms trade that is trying to give the impression of legitimacy.

The arms trade and public spaces

It is not just Remembrance Day that arms companies seek to exploit, it's also other major civic events. Only last month Guildford Borough Council took the unusual step of suspending its own ethical sponsorship policy in order to allow it to take money from arms companies for Armed Forced Day in 2015. Likewise, this year drone company Selex ES was among the main sponsors of the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow.

Arms companies have also been more than happy to associate themselves with some of the country's best known museums and attractions. The last few years alone have seen the Science Museum, London Transport Museum, National Gallery and Edinburgh Science Festival among those that have taken money from the arms trade.

Arms companies do not do this because they care about the war dead, or because they want to promote art and culture. They do it because it is good for their business. By agreeing to take money from arms companies these organisations are giving practical support and a veneer of credibility to an industry that profits from the same war and repression that they seek to commemorate.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 11:51:35 AM
the flag will not change. it will be our Tricolour! (didn't I hear in a prev post that minorities didn't have a say over such matters- its the will of the entire 32 counties - but hypocrisy from this source wouldn't surprise me!!)
The minority White South Africans used to say the same about their flag.
How is the will of the entire 32 Counties in a 32 County organisation "hypocrisy"?
You're posts are getting more amadánish by the day.
Yesterday it was suggesting that Rule 21 should have first been abolished in the 26 Cos. only to see how that would work  ::)
Just how many members of the British forces and police do you think lived in the 26 Cos at that time ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 12:00:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2014, 09:58:43 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2014, 08:19:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 07:29:28 PM
I suspect a lot of GAA members were not  very happy with many of the actions of the Provos, many of which caused anguish to a lot of members of the Nationalist Community in the North over the years so should they be banned from membership too I wonder?.
As for only allowing GAA members from the 6 Cos to vote on the Rule 21 abolition.... come on lads wise up. As pointed out the GAA is a 32 County organisation and ALL it's delegates have a right to vote at Congresses.
The less bans we have the better anyway in this day and age ( or indeed in any day or age)
Positivity is the way to go and come out from behind the barricades of negativity.

As for poppy wearing .. I will NEVER do such a thing.

Easy for a free stater to pontificate from that side of the border.

I take it these are the same GAA members who couldn't contain themselves with excitement for the Queens visit. God save her.
Partitionist nonsense.
Absolutely not. Saw it every day. As long as it didn't affect them they couldn't care less but were quick to judge northern nationalists.
Sickening to be honest how you could have that attitude towards your fellow Irishman.
Now the free staters squeal like piggies when the big bad Angela Merkel is fking them over but still haven't the guts to stand up for themselves.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 13, 2014, 12:26:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 12:00:02 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 13, 2014, 09:58:43 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2014, 08:19:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2014, 07:29:28 PM
I suspect a lot of GAA members were not  very happy with many of the actions of the Provos, many of which caused anguish to a lot of members of the Nationalist Community in the North over the years so should they be banned from membership too I wonder?.
As for only allowing GAA members from the 6 Cos to vote on the Rule 21 abolition.... come on lads wise up. As pointed out the GAA is a 32 County organisation and ALL it's delegates have a right to vote at Congresses.
The less bans we have the better anyway in this day and age ( or indeed in any day or age)
Positivity is the way to go and come out from behind the barricades of negativity.

As for poppy wearing .. I will NEVER do such a thing.

Easy for a free stater to pontificate from that side of the border.

I take it these are the same GAA members who couldn't contain themselves with excitement for the Queens visit. God save her.
Partitionist nonsense.
Absolutely not. Saw it every day. As long as it didn't affect them they couldn't care less but were quick to judge northern nationalists.
Sickening to be honest how you could have that attitude towards your fellow Irishman.
Now the free staters squeal like piggies when the big bad Angela Merkel is fking them over but still haven't the guts to stand up for themselves.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:35:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 11:51:35 AM
the flag will not change. it will be our Tricolour! (didn't I hear in a prev post that minorities didn't have a say over such matters- its the will of the entire 32 counties - but hypocrisy from this source wouldn't surprise me!!)
The minority White South Africans used to say the same about their flag.
How is the will of the entire 32 Counties in a 32 County organisation "hypocrisy"?
You're posts are getting more amadánish by the day.
Yesterday it was suggesting that Rule 21 should have first been abolished in the 26 Cos. only to see how that would work  ::)
Just how many members of the British forces and police do you think lived in the 26 Cos at that time ?
good girl!
you fell into the trap!
- who is the amadan!!

my point PRECISELY!
there were no british soldiers and ruc on active duty (officially) in the 26 counties- so how the hell could this have affected the people of the 26 counties.so how could the good people of the 26 counties vote with fully knowledgeable opinion on this!!
A position awaits you in fossets I expect!

plus you want the minority to dictate on the majority 26 county flag.
yet you reckon the minority shouldn't have the say on dictating rule 21!!

for what it's worth Im not against rule 21, but just how it was badly handled!

are we to keep the name calling going now?
I think you have illustrated you immense abilities! so I don't have to go any further!

:)

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 02:12:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:35:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 11:51:35 AM
the flag will not change. it will be our Tricolour! (didn't I hear in a prev post that minorities didn't have a say over such matters- its the will of the entire 32 counties - but hypocrisy from this source wouldn't surprise me!!)
The minority White South Africans used to say the same about their flag.
How is the will of the entire 32 Counties in a 32 County organisation "hypocrisy"?
You're posts are getting more amadánish by the day.
Yesterday it was suggesting that Rule 21 should have first been abolished in the 26 Cos. only to see how that would work  ::)
Just how many members of the British forces and police do you think lived in the 26 Cos at that time ?
good girl!
you fell into the trap!
- who is the amadan!!

my point PRECISELY!
there were no british soldiers and ruc on active duty (officially) in the 26 counties- so how the hell could this have affected the people of the 26 counties.so how could the good people of the 26 counties vote with fully knowledgeable opinion on this!!
A position awaits you in fossets I expect!

plus you want the minority to dictate on the majority 26 county flag.
yet you reckon the minority shouldn't have the say on dictating rule 21!!

for what it's worth Im not against rule 21, but just how it was badly handled!

are we to keep the name calling going now?
I think you have illustrated you immense abilities! so I don't have to go any further!

:)
I'm so totally confused by your latest piesheen that I need to lie down for a while.
You keep taking the tablets and give some of them to Foxcommander too. He's suffering from a terrible dose of Partitionism.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 02:18:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:35:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 11:51:35 AM
the flag will not change. it will be our Tricolour! (didn't I hear in a prev post that minorities didn't have a say over such matters- its the will of the entire 32 counties - but hypocrisy from this source wouldn't surprise me!!)
The minority White South Africans used to say the same about their flag.
How is the will of the entire 32 Counties in a 32 County organisation "hypocrisy"?
You're posts are getting more amadánish by the day.
Yesterday it was suggesting that Rule 21 should have first been abolished in the 26 Cos. only to see how that would work  ::)
Just how many members of the British forces and police do you think lived in the 26 Cos at that time ?
good girl!
you fell into the trap!
- who is the amadan!!

my point PRECISELY!
there were no british soldiers and ruc on active duty (officially) in the 26 counties- so how the hell could this have affected the people of the 26 counties.so how could the good people of the 26 counties vote with fully knowledgeable opinion on this!!
A position awaits you in fossets I expect!

plus you want the minority to dictate on the majority 26 county flag.
yet you reckon the minority shouldn't have the say on dictating rule 21!!

for what it's worth Im not against rule 21, but just how it was badly handled!

are we to keep the name calling going now?
I think you have illustrated you immense abilities! so I don't have to go any further!

:)

To quote Applesisapples, partitionist nonsense.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

You sell the idea of unity to them so well.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 03:24:04 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

You sell the idea of unity to them so well.

There were plenty of years to buy into the idea of unity which weren't taken.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 03:27:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

You sell the idea of unity to them so well.
+1. Just who do those kind of gobsh1tes think is going to unite with them?
Like the buck who says to the one - "You're nothing but a fcukin bitch, a bad hoor, an ugly cow but will you marry me"
for the record I have no interest in rejoining the British Commonwealth and the only people getting a few quid off the Brits live in the 6 Cos ;).
I note Fuxcommander uses "the" Queen or "the" Commonwealth when referring to the BRITISH Queen -Mrs Windsor - or the British Commonwealth.
Hmmmm....seems to be  comfortable with his Britishness   :-[
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 02:12:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:35:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 11:51:35 AM
the flag will not change. it will be our Tricolour! (didn't I hear in a prev post that minorities didn't have a say over such matters- its the will of the entire 32 counties - but hypocrisy from this source wouldn't surprise me!!)
The minority White South Africans used to say the same about their flag.
How is the will of the entire 32 Counties in a 32 County organisation "hypocrisy"?
You're posts are getting more amadánish by the day.
Yesterday it was suggesting that Rule 21 should have first been abolished in the 26 Cos. only to see how that would work  ::)
Just how many members of the British forces and police do you think lived in the 26 Cos at that time ?
good girl!
you fell into the trap!
- who is the amadan!!

my point PRECISELY!
there were no british soldiers and ruc on active duty (officially) in the 26 counties- so how the hell could this have affected the people of the 26 counties.so how could the good people of the 26 counties vote with fully knowledgeable opinion on this!!
A position awaits you in fossets I expect!

plus you want the minority to dictate on the majority 26 county flag.
yet you reckon the minority shouldn't have the say on dictating rule 21!!

for what it's worth Im not against rule 21, but just how it was badly handled!

are we to keep the name calling going now?
I think you have illustrated you immense abilities! so I don't have to go any further!

:)
I'm so totally confused by your latest piesheen that I need to lie down for a while.
You keep taking the tablets and give some of them to Foxcommander too. He's suffering from a terrible dose of Partitionism.
Id agree you should continue to 'lie low' !!

I don't know if you are just inconsistent or a hypocrite (or both)

it was a rattrap rostrap and you've been caught!!
:)



Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 02:18:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 12:35:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 11:51:35 AM
the flag will not change. it will be our Tricolour! (didn't I hear in a prev post that minorities didn't have a say over such matters- its the will of the entire 32 counties - but hypocrisy from this source wouldn't surprise me!!)
The minority White South Africans used to say the same about their flag.
How is the will of the entire 32 Counties in a 32 County organisation "hypocrisy"?
You're posts are getting more amadánish by the day.
Yesterday it was suggesting that Rule 21 should have first been abolished in the 26 Cos. only to see how that would work  ::)
Just how many members of the British forces and police do you think lived in the 26 Cos at that time ?
good girl!
you fell into the trap!
- who is the amadan!!

my point PRECISELY!
there were no british soldiers and ruc on active duty (officially) in the 26 counties- so how the hell could this have affected the people of the 26 counties.so how could the good people of the 26 counties vote with fully knowledgeable opinion on this!!
A position awaits you in fossets I expect!

plus you want the minority to dictate on the majority 26 county flag.
yet you reckon the minority shouldn't have the say on dictating rule 21!!

for what it's worth Im not against rule 21, but just how it was badly handled!

are we to keep the name calling going now?
I think you have illustrated you immense abilities! so I don't have to go any further!

:)

To quote Applesisapples, partitionist nonsense.
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:41:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

You sell the idea of unity to them so well.
were folks supposed to be 'selling' unity to unionists/loyalists on the poppy thread?

only selling here was 'selling out' !!   :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 04:41:47 PM
Lynchboy - great oul get out of jail card = post tripe and then when it's pointed out say " aha ya fell into me trap"  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 04:41:47 PM
Lynchboy - great oul get out of jail card = post tripe and then when it's pointed out say " aha ya fell into me trap"  ::)
well you did you hypocrite!

at least try to be consistent!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 13, 2014, 04:51:42 PM
Aha! Gotcha!

etc.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 13, 2014, 04:57:08 PM
A question for Rossfan, how many commonwealths are there?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 05:29:45 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 13, 2014, 04:57:08 PM
A question for Rossfan, how many commonwealths are there?
Massachusetts( sp?), Virginia, Australia, The British one.... 4 that I'm aware of. Maybe more of the US States call themselves Commonwealths.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 05:32:18 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 04:41:47 PM
Lynchboy - great oul get out of jail card = post tripe and then when it's pointed out say " aha ya fell into me trap"  ::)
well you did you hypocrite!

What's with the "hypocrite" sh1te?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 05:34:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2014, 03:27:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

You sell the idea of unity to them so well.
+1. Just who do those kind of gobsh1tes think is going to unite with them?
Like the buck who says to the one - "You're nothing but a fcukin bitch, a bad hoor, an ugly cow but will you marry me"
for the record I have no interest in rejoining the British Commonwealth and the only people getting a few quid off the Brits live in the 6 Cos ;).
I note Fuxcommander uses "the" Queen or "the" Commonwealth when referring to the BRITISH Queen -Mrs Windsor - or the British Commonwealth.
Hmmmm....seems to be  comfortable with his Britishness   :-[

Fuxcommander ?? Are you 10 years old and resorting to name calling?
Lose gracefully and stay silent young man.


Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: orangeman on November 13, 2014, 05:42:05 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/standing-up-against-the-poppy-and-the-perversion-of-sport-1.1998282

Interesting from Eamon Mc Cann and the link to sport.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2014, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!

It certainly nailed FoxCommanders line of bullshit, and I suspect it may have been directed at him rather than you.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 09:24:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!

It certainly nailed FoxCommanders line of bullshit, and I suspect it may have been directed at him rather than you.

Yes. Nailed. How so I would love to know...Deiseach was rambling like a 98 year old with Alzheimers.
Nice of you to try row in for your little buddies though.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2014, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 09:24:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!

It certainly nailed FoxCommanders line of bullshit, and I suspect it may have been directed at him rather than you.

Yes. Nailed. How so I would love to know...Deiseach was rambling like a 98 year old with Alzheimers.
Nice of you to try row in for your little buddies though.

Nice of you to draw a partition between us.  :D

(With thanks to Deiseach)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 09:36:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 09:24:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!

It certainly nailed FoxCommanders line of bullshit, and I suspect it may have been directed at him rather than you.

Yes. Nailed. How so I would love to know...Deiseach was rambling like a 98 year old with Alzheimers.
Nice of you to try row in for your little buddies though.

Nice of you to draw a partition between us.  :D

(With thanks to Deiseach)

Was that an attempt at humour? Makes Brendan O'Carroll seem like Oscar Wilde.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2014, 10:05:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 09:36:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 09:24:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!

It certainly nailed FoxCommanders line of bullshit, and I suspect it may have been directed at him rather than you.

Yes. Nailed. How so I would love to know...Deiseach was rambling like a 98 year old with Alzheimers.
Nice of you to try row in for your little buddies though.

Nice of you to draw a partition between us.  :D

(With thanks to Deiseach)

Was that an attempt at humour? Makes Brendan O'Carroll seem like Oscar Wilde.

Oh it wasn't meant as humour.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 10:17:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!

It certainly nailed FoxCommanders line of bullshit, and I suspect it may have been directed at him rather than you.
I be a feeling it was aimed at my post

If not - 'he's' a feckin bad shot!!

Foxy has a bit of point though IMO not as bad as things were 15 years  or so ago

I really think you and him are actually quite similar  !!!
I won't suggest getting a room though !!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2014, 10:27:07 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 10:17:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2014, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
how so?
please point out.
im far from partitionist!
All I am doing is merely pointing out their own hypocrisy to the name calling poster!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

and what I said was partitionist where exactly!

It's partitionist because you think that, when it comes to certain subjects, the only opinion that matters is that of those on one side of the border. We can argue the merits of the particular idea all day long but, by definition, it's partitionist.

Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!

It certainly nailed FoxCommanders line of bullshit, and I suspect it may have been directed at him rather than you.
I be a feeling it was aimed at my post

If not - 'he's' a feckin bad shot!!

Foxy has a bit of point though IMO not as bad as things were 15 years  or so ago

I really think you and him are actually quite similar  !!!
I won't suggest getting a room though !!


He'd insist on a partition!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 14, 2014, 07:51:22 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:41:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

You sell the idea of unity to them so well.
were folks supposed to be 'selling' unity to unionists/loyalists on the poppy thread?

only selling here was 'selling out' !!   :)

Ffs what are you on about? A bunch of blithering idiots have turned a relatively sensible discussion about the poppy into a discussion of partition. Then you have people talking about unification and abusing southerners in the same breath. Who in their right mind would want to unify with that kind of nonsense?

While I agree that many, possibly a majority, in the south have for decades turned their backs on us northerners, carrying a big f**king chip on our shoulders towards the people we aim to unify with and being abusive about it isn't going to help things, is it?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 14, 2014, 08:40:22 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!

I don't need to tell you how you think, I read what you say (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17811.msg1418187#msg1418187):

Quotethere were no british soldiers and ruc on active duty (officially) in the 26 counties- so how the hell could this have affected the people of the 26 counties.so how could the good people of the 26 counties vote with fully knowledgeable opinion on this!!
A position awaits you in fossets I expect!

Don't concern yourselves with matters with which you have no first-hand experience. Big Ian in his anti-Anglo-Irish Agreement pomp couldn't have put it better. Now that I think about it, the Shinners were against that too!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 14, 2014, 11:00:48 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 14, 2014, 08:40:22 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 06:20:54 PM
Again
Point out where in this thread I have been partitionist

It's nice of you to tell me how I think though!

I don't need to tell you how you think, I read what you say (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17811.msg1418187#msg1418187):

Quotethere were no british soldiers and ruc on active duty (officially) in the 26 counties- so how the hell could this have affected the people of the 26 counties.so how could the good people of the 26 counties vote with fully knowledgeable opinion on this!!
A position awaits you in fossets I expect!

Don't concern yourselves with matters with which you have no first-hand experience. Big Ian in his anti-Anglo-Irish Agreement pomp couldn't have put it better. Now that I think about it, the Shinners were against that too!
how is what I said partitionist?
is it not fact?
id love the good folks of the rest of Ireland (26 counties) experience first hand the good workings of the ruc/british army etc
but that didn't happen. I couldn't make them!
so how is a statement of fact, with no actual partitionist commentary from me be actually partitionist??

no offense but if this what you are trying to make your example, then you are 'scraping' (the bottom of the barrel) here.
if you don't think you are 'scraping' then you are not reading what I am writing (no matter how bad it is)  and are telling me how to think! Intentionally or unintentionally!

Im no partitionist and don't indulge in partitionist language intentionally - so stop digging!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 14, 2014, 11:04:59 AM
I've explained to you three times (okay, two and a bit times) why it is partitionist. Your response is that because you are not partitionist it can't be partitionist. Truly there are none so blind...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Brick Tamlin on November 14, 2014, 11:15:46 AM
Deiseach..totally unrelated, but who is thon boy on your avatar?
Forgive my ignorance if he is famous.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 14, 2014, 11:26:25 AM
 
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on November 14, 2014, 11:15:46 AM
Deiseach..totally unrelated, but who is thon boy on your avatar?
Forgive my ignorance if he is famous.

Aw shucks, you don't think it's me?

The Onion published this article a long time ago (http://www.theonion.com/articles/ask-a-faulknerian-idiot-manchild,12248/) (possibly NSFW; contains the 'N' word') and the print edition had the pic that is now my avatar for the byline. So he's Benny Upton, Faulknerian Idiot Man-Child. Now you know.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 14, 2014, 12:42:20 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 14, 2014, 11:04:59 AM
I've explained to you three times (okay, two and a bit times) why it is partitionist. Your response is that because you are not partitionist it can't be partitionist. Truly there are none so blind...

;D ;D ;D  ??? Easier to just put it down to experience and move on.......
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 14, 2014, 12:51:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 14, 2014, 12:42:20 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 14, 2014, 11:04:59 AM
I've explained to you three times (okay, two and a bit times) why it is partitionist. Your response is that because you are not partitionist it can't be partitionist. Truly there are none so blind...

;D ;D ;D  ??? Easier to just put it down to experience and move on.......

Wise words.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 14, 2014, 02:48:28 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 14, 2014, 11:04:59 AM
I've explained to you three times (okay, two and a bit times) why it is partitionist. Your response is that because you are not partitionist it can't be partitionist. Truly there are none so blind...
you have explained nothing here!

you are scraping the bottom of the barrel to try and attempt to make this partitionist.

my prev point was agreed nby the prev poster that the ruc/british army were not experienced by the people of 26 counties - so therefore could have no fist hand opinion of all their kind of treatment entailed. That is stating fact (not by me, even though the prev poster demonstrated his own hypocrisy in doing so).

you are welcome to your subjective opinion

but when trying to label someone else's thoughts or meaning etc- maybe you'd think again.
you are just digging a deeper hole for yourself here.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 14, 2014, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 14, 2014, 12:42:20 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 14, 2014, 11:04:59 AM
I've explained to you three times (okay, two and a bit times) why it is partitionist. Your response is that because you are not partitionist it can't be partitionist. Truly there are none so blind...

;D ;D ;D  ??? Easier to just put it down to experience and move on.......

so when you have had your ass kicked, you seek to resort to schoolyard bully tactics and attempt to 'gang up' on someone with implied derisory comments !!

that's a step down from name calling !!

classy !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 14, 2014, 03:23:40 PM
God help you Lynchboy ... only Willie Frazer is as deluded as you.  :-[
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 14, 2014, 05:01:51 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/pigeonchess_zps06fe9dda.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/pigeonchess_zps06fe9dda.png.html)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 14, 2014, 07:58:16 PM
Fantastic!
When you can't articulate any meaningful debate - resort to 'sarcasm '

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 15, 2014, 12:02:41 AM
Lynchbhoy merely referred to the different experiences of people in the north versus people in the south. He did not imply any difference in aspiration on both sides of the border. I think he is overstepping the mark if he is saying this difference of experience precludes people in the south voting on issues that, primarily, affect those in the north, however, I would understand where he is coming from and it is unfair to call him "partitionist" because of this

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 15, 2014, 01:44:18 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 15, 2014, 12:02:41 AM
Lynchbhoy merely referred to the different experiences of people in the north versus people in the south. He did not imply any difference in aspiration on both sides of the border. I think he is overstepping the mark if he is saying this difference of experience precludes people in the south voting on issues that, primarily, affect those in the north, however, I would understand where he is coming from and it is unfair to call him "partitionist" because of this
Thank you Mike
That is my opinion - the one I have been offering on this topic!

You didn't seem to need skills of mind reading , sarcasm or even name calling to articulate that!

I actually would want 32 county votes on all issues ( if possible). I was highlighting what I believed was a bit of hypocrisy prev.
Fair play to ya fella!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 15, 2014, 02:02:26 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 15, 2014, 01:44:18 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on November 15, 2014, 12:02:41 AM
Lynchbhoy merely referred to the different experiences of people in the north versus people in the south. He did not imply any difference in aspiration on both sides of the border. I think he is overstepping the mark if he is saying this difference of experience precludes people in the south voting on issues that, primarily, affect those in the north, however, I would understand where he is coming from and it is unfair to call him "partitionist" because of this
Thank you Mike
That is my opinion - the one I have been offering on this topic!

You didn't seem to need skills of mind reading , sarcasm or even name calling to articulate that!

I actually would want 32 county votes on all issues ( if possible). I was highlighting what I believed was a bit of hypocrisy prev.
Fair play to ya fella!

That was your first mistake. Never point out the hypocrisy of the cabal !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 15, 2014, 02:04:52 AM
Lol
It prob won't be my last!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 15, 2014, 02:33:19 AM
Would an English person wearing a poppy in the south still be anathema ? Maybe its different in Dublin but I've only ever seen a few (very few) poppies worn in the south and this was only in Cork which, I always assumed, was Corks protestant stock remembering relatives. Given their imperial baggage would it be unforgiveable for an English person to wear the poppy in the south ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theskull1 on November 15, 2014, 09:54:44 AM
(http://m.imgur.com/gallery/sP8Rr6R)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 15, 2014, 01:58:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 14, 2014, 07:51:22 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:41:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

You sell the idea of unity to them so well.
were folks supposed to be 'selling' unity to unionists/loyalists on the poppy thread?

only selling here was 'selling out' !!   :)

Ffs what are you on about? A bunch of blithering idiots have turned a relatively sensible discussion about the poppy into a discussion of partition. Then you have people talking about unification and abusing southerners in the same breath. Who in their right mind would want to unify with that kind of nonsense?

While I agree that many, possibly a majority, in the south have for decades turned their backs on us northerners, carrying a big f**king chip on our shoulders towards the people we aim to unify with and being abusive about it isn't going to help things, is it?
Well said!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2014, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 15, 2014, 01:58:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 14, 2014, 07:51:22 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:41:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

You sell the idea of unity to them so well.
were folks supposed to be 'selling' unity to unionists/loyalists on the poppy thread?

only selling here was 'selling out' !!   :)

Ffs what are you on about? A bunch of blithering idiots have turned a relatively sensible discussion about the poppy into a discussion of partition. Then you have people talking about unification and abusing southerners in the same breath. Who in their right mind would want to unify with that kind of nonsense?

While I agree that many, possibly a majority, in the south have for decades turned their backs on us northerners, carrying a big f**king chip on our shoulders towards the people we aim to unify with and being abusive about it isn't going to help things, is it?
Well said!

I have read some strange arguments against unification (and thus for partition) on the board over the years, but this was probably the daftest:

Quote from: T Fearon on April 06, 2013, 05:10:36 AM
So if you stop a Guard in the 26 Counties asking for directions,is it a statutory requirement that you have to produce valid Car Insurance? Another reason I'll be thinking twice about my voting intentions in Sinn Fein's a border poll!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Pub Bore on October 27, 2015, 02:46:41 PM
Bump...the real thread

Seen a pappy there!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: blewuporstuffed on October 27, 2015, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 27, 2015, 02:46:41 PM
Bump...the real thread

Seen a pappy there!
I have seen a few about Belfast this week.
Not the paper ones, the little lapel pin jobs
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: omaghjoe on October 28, 2015, 05:06:14 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2014, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 15, 2014, 01:58:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 14, 2014, 07:51:22 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2014, 04:41:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 13, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2014, 02:30:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 13, 2014, 02:24:24 PM
No wonder this country is fucked,  if we're not fighting the brits we're fighting each other!!!  The Fighting Irish....ye can't beat it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

No man left behind....that's the irish way eh?  ::)

More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love. Free Staters know nothing else but love to sit on their soapbox and tell those they left behind that they are out of order.

People like Rossfan would re-join the commonwealth in a heartbeat if there was a few quid in it for them.

You sell the idea of unity to them so well.
were folks supposed to be 'selling' unity to unionists/loyalists on the poppy thread?

only selling here was 'selling out' !!   :)

Ffs what are you on about? A bunch of blithering idiots have turned a relatively sensible discussion about the poppy into a discussion of partition. Then you have people talking about unification and abusing southerners in the same breath. Who in their right mind would want to unify with that kind of nonsense?

While I agree that many, possibly a majority, in the south have for decades turned their backs on us northerners, carrying a big f**king chip on our shoulders towards the people we aim to unify with and being abusive about it isn't going to help things, is it?
Well said!

I have read some strange arguments against unification (and thus for partition) on the board over the years, but this was probably the daftest:

Quote from: T Fearon on April 06, 2013, 05:10:36 AM
So if you stop a Guard in the 26 Counties asking for directions,is it a statutory requirement that you have to produce valid Car Insurance? Another reason I'll be thinking twice about my voting intentions in Sinn Fein's a border poll!

Well I never is this true? I had no idea

Thats the final nail in the coffin for a UI for me

Thank heavens Tony has pointed it out
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: GJL on October 28, 2015, 11:28:25 AM
(https://fbcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xft1/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/12189023_10207456539669820_9046471292658532127_n.jpg?oh=6352413ccf4631f3d12b18e1391dcc71&oe=56BB3E49&__gda__=1456322826_41e6db90fc2e5c5816e8e9952592c92c)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on October 28, 2015, 12:31:21 PM
(https://deiseach.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/corbynpoppy.png)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Estimator on October 29, 2015, 08:27:39 PM
Conor McGregor has been getting a bit of abuse over his wearing of the poppy.
This is his response:

I know where my allegiance lies and what I do for my country.
I don't need a stupid little flower with a 100 different meanings to tell me if I do or do not represent my country.
Check the facts of its original meaning.
ALL soldiers. ALL wars.
I have the blood of many nations on my gloves. Fought and beat on the world stage.
You have a pint in your hand and a Celtic jersey on in your local. f**k you and the Queen.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Aaron Boone on October 29, 2015, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: GJL on October 28, 2015, 11:28:25 AM
(https://fbcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xft1/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/12189023_10207456539669820_9046471292658532127_n.jpg?oh=6352413ccf4631f3d12b18e1391dcc71&oe=56BB3E49&__gda__=1456322826_41e6db90fc2e5c5816e8e9952592c92c)

Lest we forget.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on October 29, 2015, 09:19:28 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on October 29, 2015, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: GJL on October 28, 2015, 11:28:25 AM
(https://fbcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xft1/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/12189023_10207456539669820_9046471292658532127_n.jpg?oh=6352413ccf4631f3d12b18e1391dcc71&oe=56BB3E49&__gda__=1456322826_41e6db90fc2e5c5816e8e9952592c92c)

Lest we forget.

Grotesque.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Estimator on October 29, 2015, 08:27:39 PM
Conor McGregor has been getting a bit of abuse over his wearing of the poppy.
This is his response:

I know where my allegiance lies and what I do for my country.
I don't need a stupid little flower with a 100 different meanings to tell me if I do or do not represent my country.
Check the facts of its original meaning.
ALL soldiers. ALL wars.
I have the blood of many nations on my gloves. Fought and beat on the world stage.
You have a pint in your hand and a Celtic jersey on in your local. f**k you and the Queen.

He is just a lackey for British imperialism and he worships the mighty dollar. why should anyone care what he thinks ?

I'll bet he would run a mile if confronted with a real life, no rules situation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Vg-US5JX0  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Vg-US5JX0)

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Iceman on October 29, 2015, 10:32:28 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Estimator on October 29, 2015, 08:27:39 PM
Conor McGregor has been getting a bit of abuse over his wearing of the poppy.
This is his response:

I know where my allegiance lies and what I do for my country.
I don't need a stupid little flower with a 100 different meanings to tell me if I do or do not represent my country.
Check the facts of its original meaning.
ALL soldiers. ALL wars.
I have the blood of many nations on my gloves. Fought and beat on the world stage.
You have a pint in your hand and a Celtic jersey on in your local. f**k you and the Queen.

He is just a lackey for British imperialism and he worships the mighty dollar. why should anyone care what he thinks ?

I'll bet he would run a mile if confronted with a real life, no rules situation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Vg-US5JX0  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Vg-US5JX0)
You make this assumption based on what?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trileacman on October 29, 2015, 11:16:07 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 29, 2015, 10:32:28 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Estimator on October 29, 2015, 08:27:39 PM
Conor McGregor has been getting a bit of abuse over his wearing of the poppy.
This is his response:

I know where my allegiance lies and what I do for my country.
I don't need a stupid little flower with a 100 different meanings to tell me if I do or do not represent my country.
Check the facts of its original meaning.
ALL soldiers. ALL wars.
I have the blood of many nations on my gloves. Fought and beat on the world stage.
You have a pint in your hand and a Celtic jersey on in your local. f**k you and the Queen.

He is just a lackey for British imperialism and he worships the mighty dollar. why should anyone care what he thinks ?

I'll bet he would run a mile if confronted with a real life, no rules situation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Vg-US5JX0  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Vg-US5JX0)
You make this assumption based on what?

Because he's a sensationalist gobshite with an extremely over-inflated sense of self-worth. "I know what I do for my country". FFS get over yourself man. Imagine a proper Irish sporting hero coming out with that shit say Paul O'Connell or Bernard Brogan, we'd be cringing for our dead worth.

I'm not a staunch Republican but going around like he's some great Irish hero draped in the tricolour and then defending wearing the poppy highlights his cheap naked cynicism. It's all a show to gather up money. His greed, not his patriotism is his defining characteristic.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Iceman on October 29, 2015, 11:57:54 PM
How does that address him running in a real life no rules situation?
He's a prize fighter after the coin. Ali was everything McGregor was when it came to showboating and running his mouth. But it's more the last point I was challenging that he would run a mile in a real life no rules situation...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 12:59:11 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 29, 2015, 11:57:54 PM
How does that address him running in a real life no rules situation?
He's a prize fighter after the coin. Ali was everything McGregor was when it came to showboating and running his mouth. But it's more the last point I was challenging that he would run a mile in a real life no rules situation...

He wears the poppy with a full awareness of its significance. If a man cant take a stand against a symbol with such a divisive image in his own country do you honestly believe he would stand up in a real world situation ?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: JoG2 on October 30, 2015, 09:34:08 AM
Quote from: Estimator on October 29, 2015, 08:27:39 PM
Conor McGregor has been getting a bit of abuse over his wearing of the poppy.
This is his response:

I know where my allegiance lies and what I do for my country.
I don't need a stupid little flower with a 100 different meanings to tell me if I do or do not represent my country.
Check the facts of its original meaning.
ALL soldiers. ALL wars.
I have the blood of many nations on my gloves. Fought and beat on the world stage.
You have a pint in your hand and a Celtic jersey on in your local. f**k you and the Queen.

:o
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 01:11:46 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 30, 2015, 09:34:08 AM
Quote from: Estimator on October 29, 2015, 08:27:39 PM
Conor McGregor has been getting a bit of abuse over his wearing of the poppy.
This is his response:

I know where my allegiance lies and what I do for my country.
I don't need a stupid little flower with a 100 different meanings to tell me if I do or do not represent my country.
Check the facts of its original meaning.
ALL soldiers. ALL wars.
I have the blood of many nations on my gloves. Fought and beat on the world stage.
You have a pint in your hand and a Celtic jersey on in your local. f**k you and the Queen.

:o

I would guess he is referring to the Irish who died in WW1.

I wouldn't wear it personally.

No matter what religion you subscribe to, or what legal or political ideology you follow, every man is free to choose and if he chooses to be an idiot, then he is entitled to be an idiot.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 30, 2015, 06:26:34 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 30, 2015, 09:34:08 AM
Quote from: Estimator on October 29, 2015, 08:27:39 PM
Conor McGregor has been getting a bit of abuse over his wearing of the poppy.
This is his response:

I know where my allegiance lies and what I do for my country.
I don't need a stupid little flower with a 100 different meanings to tell me if I do or do not represent my country.
Check the facts of its original meaning.
ALL soldiers. ALL wars.
I have the blood of many nations on my gloves. Fought and beat on the world stage.
You have a pint in your hand and a Celtic jersey on in your local. f**k you and the Queen.

:o

I'm sure surviving members of Himmler's Einzatzgruppen will be delighted they're being recognised.

Meanwhile, wear it with pride...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/two-ex-soldiers-charged-raping-6731011
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Iceman on October 30, 2015, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 12:59:11 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 29, 2015, 11:57:54 PM
How does that address him running in a real life no rules situation?
He's a prize fighter after the coin. Ali was everything McGregor was when it came to showboating and running his mouth. But it's more the last point I was challenging that he would run a mile in a real life no rules situation...

He wears the poppy with a full awareness of its significance. If a man cant take a stand against a symbol with such a divisive image in his own country do you honestly believe he would stand up in a real world situation ?

you're doing quite well since you started posting... I wouldn't personally make any assumptions about a professional fighter in a real life situation other than you'd want nobody else beside you in a scrap. A trained man beats an average man 9/10 times.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 09:55:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 30, 2015, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 12:59:11 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 29, 2015, 11:57:54 PM
How does that address him running in a real life no rules situation?
He's a prize fighter after the coin. Ali was everything McGregor was when it came to showboating and running his mouth. But it's more the last point I was challenging that he would run a mile in a real life no rules situation...

He wears the poppy with a full awareness of its significance. If a man cant take a stand against a symbol with such a divisive image in his own country do you honestly believe he would stand up in a real world situation ?

you're doing quite well since you started posting... I wouldn't personally make any assumptions about a professional fighter in a real life situation other than you'd want nobody else beside you in a scrap. A trained man beats an average man 9/10 times.

One minute he is wearing a poppy, next minute he is saying f**k the queen...   ::) Nobody is doubting he has the physical tools to deal with a real world situation. He'd beat the shite of me, you and anyone else for sure, however, I would question his character. I think he would cut and run if he sensed any real threat. He clearly is a man with no convictions.

Anyway, to be honest, I really don't care what this two bit  lout thinks. He is symptomatic of what is wrong with Irish society. Until he appeared the general attitude toward UFC was one of pious indifference. Now suddenly all the "bro's" are raving about it. Complete bullshit.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 02, 2015, 12:27:16 PM
(http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/495089188-jurgen-klopp-manager-of-liverpool-embraces-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXtM3U0XhSHzDbR0v8U8rqBVGE7mepFs2uE1OELBk%2Fzy306bBIrQuyPM8oQf8PlGdLg%3D%3D)

Someone took the time to ensure this TV camera could not be accused of hating freedom and loving the terrorists. Take that, Provos!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 12:30:47 PM
How is the Poppy received in Germany I wonder? I wondered would Klopp wear one, and as a Liverpool fan I hoped he would so there wouldn't be any messing in the media about it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: illdecide on November 02, 2015, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 12:30:47 PM
How is the Poppy received in Germany I wonder? I wondered would Klopp wear one, and as a Liverpool fan I hoped he would so there wouldn't be any messing in the media about it.

Can u not see the poppy on his top?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: illdecide on November 02, 2015, 02:28:29 PM
Just walked down the Lower Ormeau Road with a fella from work and him wearing a poppy...Could have got me a kicking...lol
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 02, 2015, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 12:30:47 PM
How is the Poppy received in Germany I wonder? I wondered would Klopp wear one, and as a Liverpool fan I hoped he would so there wouldn't be any messing in the media about it.

Can u not see the poppy on his top?

I can. That's what I meant, I hoped he would so there wouldn't be any messing about it, and so I was glad he did. Therefore, I wonder how is that received in Germany.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2015, 03:56:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 02, 2015, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 12:30:47 PM
How is the Poppy received in Germany I wonder? I wondered would Klopp wear one, and as a Liverpool fan I hoped he would so there wouldn't be any messing in the media about it.

Can u not see the poppy on his top?

I can. That's what I meant, I hoped he would so there wouldn't be any messing about it, and so I was glad he did. Therefore, I wonder how is that received in Germany.

The Germans are pragmatists, not navel gazers.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: deiseach on November 02, 2015, 04:06:40 PM
I'm sure the Germans will appreciate that he was only obeying orders.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 05:04:45 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 02, 2015, 04:06:40 PM
I'm sure the Germans will appreciate that he was only obeying orders.

OOoohhh. Controversial.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 02, 2015, 05:41:40 PM
I once went to a conference with a customer in Munich. My customer was wearing a poppy, and a young German lady complemented him on it, not knowing what it mean. I laughed inside.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2015, 10:52:23 PM
This is embarrassing:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/02/poppy-photoshopped-david-cameron-facebook-picture?CMP=fb_gu (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/02/poppy-photoshopped-david-cameron-facebook-picture?CMP=fb_gu)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Bearded One on November 02, 2015, 10:58:06 PM
A colleague appeared today with a bog standard poppy on her coat, a larger version on her suit jacket and a wristband...just to sure we got the message like!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2015, 11:47:48 PM
Quote from: The Bearded One on November 02, 2015, 10:58:06 PM
A colleague appeared today with a bog standard poppy on her coat, a larger version on her suit jacket and a wristband...just to sure we got the message like!

Was that her on the park bench on the last page?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ONeill on November 02, 2015, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: The Bearded One on November 02, 2015, 10:58:06 PM
A colleague appeared today with a bog standard poppy on her coat, a larger version on her suit jacket and a wristband...just to sure we got the message like!

Is she good looking?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Bearded One on November 03, 2015, 06:23:48 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 02, 2015, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: The Bearded One on November 02, 2015, 10:58:06 PM
A colleague appeared today with a bog standard poppy on her coat, a larger version on her suit jacket and a wristband...just to sure we got the message like!

Is she good looking?

Wouldn't touch her with yours.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 03, 2015, 08:26:18 AM
Quote from: The Bearded One on November 02, 2015, 10:58:06 PM
A colleague appeared today with a bog standard poppy on her coat, a larger version on her suit jacket and a wristband...just to sure we got the message like!
Lest she forget.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 03, 2015, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: The Bearded One on November 03, 2015, 06:23:48 AM
Quote from: ONeill on November 02, 2015, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: The Bearded One on November 02, 2015, 10:58:06 PM
A colleague appeared today with a bog standard poppy on her coat, a larger version on her suit jacket and a wristband...just to sure we got the message like!

Is she good looking?

Wouldn't touch her with yours.
[/quote
They're always minging
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2015, 06:49:07 PM
Poppy protest at a North Belfast Lidl store.

Is it any wonder the Poppy issue is considered sectarian.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 07, 2015, 08:20:52 PM
All the commentators at the tennis in Paris today were wearing poppies. Andy Murray had one sown on his shirt.

If Rory McIlroy isnt wearing one tomorrow then I will be outraged. Outraged I tell ya.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2015, 08:35:31 PM
Seen dancers on strictly not wearing them... On BBC ffs!! Will be public hangings outside Buckingham palace
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LeoMc on November 07, 2015, 11:09:31 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-dont-care-if-you-fought-in-ww2-if-you-dont-wear-a-poppy-youre-a-traitor-a6723146.html
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2015, 12:31:17 AM
A couple of people on Nolan the other morning said they wear their Poppy all year round. What's that all about?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Esmarelda on November 08, 2015, 12:07:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2015, 08:35:31 PM
Seen dancers on strictly not wearing them... On BBC ffs!! Will be public hangings outside Buckingham palace
They're seemed to be a bit of inconsistency. Some were wearing them earlier in the week when they showed their preparations for the night but they weren't wearing them on the Saturday night show.
The Irish dancer Tristan McManus didn't wear one at all.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2015, 03:06:04 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2015, 12:07:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2015, 08:35:31 PM
Seen dancers on strictly not wearing them... On BBC ffs!! Will be public hangings outside Buckingham palace
They're seemed to be a bit of inconsistency. Some were wearing them earlier in the week when they showed their preparations for the night but they weren't wearing them on the Saturday night show.
The Irish dancer Tristan McManus didn't wear one at all.

But you'd have imagined for the live show it would be a priority?? But sure people are giving off about people wearing them and people giving off for not wearing them!! Who's right depends on how and where you were brought up... An accident of birth
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Esmarelda on November 08, 2015, 03:29:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2015, 03:06:04 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2015, 12:07:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2015, 08:35:31 PM
Seen dancers on strictly not wearing them... On BBC ffs!! Will be public hangings outside Buckingham palace
They're seemed to be a bit of inconsistency. Some were wearing them earlier in the week when they showed their preparations for the night but they weren't wearing them on the Saturday night show.
The Irish dancer Tristan McManus didn't wear one at all.

But you'd have imagined for the live show it would be a priority?? But sure people are giving off about people wearing them and people giving off for not wearing them!! Who's right depends on how and where you were brought up... An accident of birth
Oh I couldn't care less. Just noticed it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 08, 2015, 10:57:31 PM
I see Jeremy Corbyn getting a hard time for not "bowing down" enough at the cenotaph while he laid down a wreath.  ::)

This sort of shite is firmly engrained in British society and has been for the past decade or so. For me the poppy means less and less the more people and the media especially bang on about crap like this. Is there even any ww1 veterans still alive?

There's a funny clip somewhere of commentary from North Korea dubbed over footage of royal celebrations from 2015 and it's actually worrying how compatible it is with the undying devotion that so many British people give these unelected millionaires.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LeoMc on November 08, 2015, 11:03:45 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 08, 2015, 10:57:31 PM
I see Jeremy Corbyn getting a hard time for not "bowing down" enough at the cenotaph while he laid down a wreath.  ::)

This sort of shite is firmly engrained in British society and has been for the past decade or so. For me the poppy means less and less the more people and the media especially bang on about crap like this. Is there even any ww1 veterans still alive?

There's a funny clip somewhere of commentary from North Korea dubbed over footage of royal celebrations from 2015 and it's actually worrying how compatible it is with the undying devotion that so many British people give these unelected millionaires.
I was reading on Twitter that after the ceremony Corbyn spent time talking to veterans whilst Cameron et al headed off for the 3 course lunch. The poster who pointed it out was castigated for politising remembrance Sunday.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: SHEEDY on November 09, 2015, 06:27:00 PM
ulster rugby team not wearing a poppy on their jerseys yesterday and utv news has it as one of their top stories. wtf.   ???
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Aaron Boone on November 09, 2015, 06:41:02 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 09, 2015, 06:27:00 PM
ulster rugby team not wearing a poppy on their jerseys yesterday and utv news has it as one of their top stories. wtf.   ???
An enormous snub to the veterans.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2015, 07:22:17 PM
Last I heard Ulster rubby covers the 9 Counties.
It's not some kind of loyal "Ulster" 6 County Unionist political organisation.
They did something right anyway - upset Archbigot Allister. ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 09, 2015, 07:59:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2015, 07:22:17 PM
Last I heard Ulster rubby covers the 9 Counties.
It's not some kind of loyal "Ulster" 6 County Unionist political organisation.
They did something right anyway - upset Archbigot Allister. ;D

I wonder if he has a mitre for when he's in bigot mode.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2015, 08:18:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2015, 07:59:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2015, 07:22:17 PM
Last I heard Ulster rubby covers the 9 Counties.
It's not some kind of loyal "Ulster" 6 County Unionist political organisation.
They did something right anyway - upset Archbigot Allister. ;D

I wonder if he has a mitre for when he's in bigot mode.
Has he another mode?? :o
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 10, 2015, 11:54:29 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 08, 2015, 11:03:45 PM
I was reading on Twitter that after the ceremony Corbyn spent time talking to veterans whilst Cameron et al headed off for the 3 course lunch. The poster who pointed it out was castigated for politising remembrance Sunday.

Jeremy Corbyn:


Real beef these guys have is that he has publicly said he is not a monarchist and he doesn't bow/kneel/curtsy etc...

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Declan on November 10, 2015, 12:52:11 PM
Noticed that Jon Snow on C4 news doesn't wear one. Have a memory of him giving his reasons and saying he'll wear it on remembrance Sunday but not before
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 10, 2015, 01:00:50 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 10, 2015, 12:52:11 PM
Noticed that Jon Snow on C4 news doesn't wear one. Have a memory of him giving his reasons and saying he'll wear it on remembrance Sunday but not before

Micky O'Neill and the Norn Iron football squad at some sort of civic reception in Belfast last night weren't wearing any on the newsreel I was watching!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LeoMc on November 10, 2015, 01:06:33 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 10, 2015, 11:54:29 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 08, 2015, 11:03:45 PM
I was reading on Twitter that after the ceremony Corbyn spent time talking to veterans whilst Cameron et al headed off for the 3 course lunch. The poster who pointed it out was castigated for politising remembrance Sunday.

Jeremy Corbyn:


  • Both Parents served in WW2
  • Wore his Poppy
  • Laid a wreath with personal handwritten note
  • As you said, stayed chatting with vetersans while other VIPs went to lunch
  • Attended a second commemoration in his own constituency

Real beef these guys have is that he has publicly said he is not a monarchist and he doesn't bow/kneel/curtsy etc...

/Jim.

But according to the Sun* he did not bow at the correct angle and so was disrespectful to the Glorious dead.

*The same Sun which hacked the voice mail of dead soldiers families...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2015, 01:12:44 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 10, 2015, 12:52:11 PM
Noticed that Jon Snow on C4 news doesn't wear one. Have a memory of him giving his reasons and saying he'll wear it on remembrance Sunday but not before
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34720464 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34720464)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 10, 2015, 01:41:03 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34775466

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34774415

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Nigel White on November 10, 2015, 05:38:45 PM
All this craic about TV personalities wearing poppies is fine and well, but we need consistency. This time last year I literally came across a TV Channel  - Babestation TV - Number 908 on the Skybox. To my amazement the presenter, a miss Candy Charms, was not wearing a poppy. In fairness, mind you, she was wearing very little, but thats not the point. I raised the matter with Jim Allister and heard nothing back. Today, 1 year later, I phoned his office to find out what action he had taken, but the girl in the office told me Jim wasn't available as he was at the opticians as his eyesight has been deteriorating over the last 12 months.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: extra time on November 10, 2015, 06:07:09 PM
Mark McFadden not wearing one on Utv live this evening.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lenny on November 10, 2015, 07:09:49 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on November 10, 2015, 05:38:45 PM
All this craic about TV personalities wearing poppies is fine and well, but we need consistency. This time last year I literally came across a TV Channel  - Babestation TV - Number 908 on the Skybox. To my amazement the presenter, a miss Candy Charms, was not wearing a poppy. In fairness, mind you, she was wearing very little, but thats not the point. I raised the matter with Jim Allister and heard nothing back. Today, 1 year later, I phoned his office to find out what action he had taken, but the girl in the office told me Jim wasn't available as he was at the opticians as his eyesight has been deteriorating over the last 12 months.

lol
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pullhard on November 11, 2015, 09:45:12 AM
Just had this email

Dear colleagues 
Remembrance Day – taking the time to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice.
As many of you know, at ******** we observe the two minutes silence on November 11th to remember all those who have died for us in the World Wars and other conflicts in the last 100 years. Can I ask and indeed encourage you to put the phone down or step away from the PC or a meeting to observe the 2 minutes silence at 11 o'clock today.
In support of the Poppy Appeal, ******** will be making a donation to the Royal British Legion and pinning the poppy to our logo on our social media sites.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 11, 2015, 09:51:20 AM
Quote from: pullhard on November 11, 2015, 09:45:12 AM
Just had this email

Dear colleagues 
Remembrance Day – taking the time to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice.
As many of you know, at ******** we observe the two minutes silence on November 11th to remember all those who have died for us in the World Wars and other conflicts in the last 100 years. Can I ask and indeed encourage you to put the phone down or step away from the PC or a meeting to observe the 2 minutes silence at 11 o'clock today.
In support of the Poppy Appeal, ******** will be making a donation to the Royal British Legion and pinning the poppy to our logo on our social media sites.



Where you based PH? North or "mainland"?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pullhard on November 11, 2015, 09:52:09 AM
Manchester
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 11, 2015, 09:54:16 AM
Quote from: pullhard on November 11, 2015, 09:52:09 AM
Manchester

May keep rattling the keyboard
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pullhard on November 11, 2015, 11:01:25 AM
Slience on the board please
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 11, 2015, 11:04:38 AM
Quote from: pullhard on November 11, 2015, 11:01:25 AM
Slience on the board please

I farted, but I'm based in Spain so think that makes it OK.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 11, 2015, 11:23:34 AM
Is it over yet?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Pub Bore on November 11, 2015, 05:30:52 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 11, 2015, 11:23:34 AM
Is it over yet?

Not quite

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-34787029
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: give her dixie on November 11, 2015, 05:41:11 PM
I see Sinn Fein had no problem remembering the British Army today at Stormont......

http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/11/11/remembrance-day-ceremony-at-stormont-ends-in-disagreement/
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 11, 2015, 07:10:12 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on November 11, 2015, 05:41:11 PM
I see Sinn Fein had no problem remembering the British Army today at Stormont......

http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/11/11/remembrance-day-ceremony-at-stormont-ends-in-disagreement/
Well done to Sinn Féin on a very mature gesture. Of course certain Unionists couldn't help themselves but then again that's the sort of moronic behaviour nationalists have to put up with.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 07:20:20 PM
Started by a TUV ignoramus.
What do you expect from an ass but a kick and a hee haw.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Pub Bore on November 11, 2015, 08:38:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 07:20:20 PM
Started by a TUV ignoramus.
What do you expect from an ass but a kick and a hee haw.

Agreed, some TUV knuckle dragger tries to, at best, embarrass SF or, at worst, hopes they don't stand or walk out thus causing furore.  It ends up dragging down what looked like a genuinely inclusive service.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2015, 08:43:24 PM
Nolan said to a SF member last week, "sell a United Ireland to me".

Well, Norn Iron has been in existence for 90 odd years, and nobody can sell it!! Nothing changes in the unworkable sectarian cesspit.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 11, 2015, 10:18:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 07:20:20 PM
Started by a TUV ignoramus.
What do you expect from an ass but a kick and a hee haw.

Fair play to Nesbitt who apologised to McGuinness for the episode.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: TabClear on November 11, 2015, 10:22:18 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on November 11, 2015, 08:38:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 07:20:20 PM
Started by a TUV ignoramus.
What do you expect from an ass but a kick and a hee haw.

Agreed, some TUV knuckle dragger tries to, at best, embarrass SF or, at worst, hopes they don't stand or walk out thus causing furore.  It ends up dragging down what looked like a genuinely inclusive service.

Agreed. Certainly didn't hurt SF.  Most fair minded unionists would see this for what it was, moronic triumphalism by a tuv  idiot. Anyone who agrees with that shower wouldn't fall in the fair minded category in my opiniion so no harm done
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2015, 10:56:49 PM
Its daft though on both parts... Not one of the politicians would not respect another countries' national anthem so why do it here?? I wouldn't stand to today's joke but fair fucks to Martin
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: give her dixie on November 11, 2015, 11:11:16 PM
I was listening to the radio today and I found out there are several poppies of different shapes and colours to remember different aspects of the wars. I don't know if I can remember them all, but here goes:

Red poppy, the one we see the most

White poppy as a symbol of peace and to remember all who died in wars

Blue poppy, to remember the animals who died in wars, and to campaign against the use of animals in wars

Purple poppy, to remember the animals who died in wars

Black poppy, to remember blacks and Asian's who fought in the wars

Red poppy without a leaf is used in Scotland to remember their war dead

Are there any more out there used to remember the wars and the dead?

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2015, 11:20:44 PM
Red poppy, used to coat trail taigs.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2015, 11:26:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2015, 11:20:44 PM
Red poppy, used to coat trail taigs.

Just in Norn Iron? 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 11, 2015, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on November 11, 2015, 11:11:16 PM
Are there any more out there used to remember the wars and the dead?
I wear the invisible poppy myself, where I choose to not remember any wars; and if anything I recall the British military actions here and then get angry for a bit.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 11:59:59 PM
Let us all remember those who suffered and died so that we can be Irish citizens and have Irish passports.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rrhf on November 12, 2015, 04:54:54 AM
That's the lily
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 01:55:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 11:59:59 PM
Let us all remember those who suffered and died so that we can be Irish citizens and have Irish passports.

then give it all away to the EU. Pearse would be proud.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 12, 2015, 02:40:53 PM
Pearse was cosying up to Germany a few generations before the EU was ever heard of.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2015, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 12, 2015, 02:40:53 PM
Pearse was cosying up to Germany a few generations before the EU was ever heard of.
Hardly surprising given the circumstances. Tone was cosying up to France. O Neill was cosying up to Spain. The Great Game works like that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 12, 2015, 02:45:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2015, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 12, 2015, 02:40:53 PM
Pearse was cosying up to Germany a few generations before the EU was ever heard of.
Hardly surprising given the circumstances. Tone was cosying up to France. O Neill was cosying up to Spain. The Great Game works like that.

I didn't say it was surprising. I was referring to that idiot's choice of Pearse as the example to invoke to disparage the idea of dealing with European powers.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2015, 03:36:18 PM
Am I correct in thinking only Albania and North Korea now live in isolationist bubbles pretending no other Countries exist?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 12, 2015, 03:41:28 PM
I try very hard to put aside my upbringing and look on the poppy as an act of remembrance, with mixed results. Every time I get to the point were I say to myself, the problem is mine it is not political we get something like yesterday were Unionist politicians can't help themselves, they just have to show us who's boss. Then you listen to the vitriol on Nolan and the one sided narrative of the troubles and you think to yourself this place can never be inclusive. One contributor on Nolan to day just about stopped herself from telling us to all go down south. And the SDLP think they can make NI work?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 12, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Frostbit Boy
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTjptj-WcAAltDf.jpg)

TUV's Sammy Morrison
(http://i3.belfastlive.co.uk/incoming/article9025004.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/ruairi-mcSorley.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 13, 2015, 12:08:03 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 12, 2015, 03:41:28 PM
I try very hard to put aside my upbringing and look on the poppy as an act of remembrance, with mixed results. Every time I get to the point were I say to myself, the problem is mine it is not political we get something like yesterday were Unionist politicians can't help themselves, they just have to show us who's boss. Then you listen to the vitriol on Nolan and the one sided narrative of the troubles and you think to yourself this place can never be inclusive. One contributor on Nolan to day just about stopped herself from telling us to all go down south. And the SDLP think they can make NI work?

I was listening to this this morning. (Is double this grammatically correct?) She didn't stop herself, she said it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:56:12 AM

Hey piglet - did pearse sell out the country and hand over the keys? Maybe you don't understand diplomacy
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2015, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2015, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 12, 2015, 02:40:53 PM
Pearse was cosying up to Germany a few generations before the EU was ever heard of.
Hardly surprising given the circumstances. Tone was cosying up to France. O Neill was cosying up to Spain. The Great Game works like that.

Red Hugh O'Donnell was cosying up to England when it suited him. As was O'Neill, who after all is an ancestor of Churchill.

Not to mention Art McMurrough.

That is Ireland to a 'T'.

Romantic Ireland is a powerful image, but it all ultimately comes down to me, me, me.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Pub Bore on November 13, 2015, 12:57:58 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 12, 2015, 08:54:46 PM
Frostbit Boy
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTjptj-WcAAltDf.jpg)

TUV's Sammy Morrison
(http://i3.belfastlive.co.uk/incoming/article9025004.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/ruairi-mcSorley.jpg)

Boys o' dear, ya wuddn't be lang sangin the Queen so ya wuddn't
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2015, 03:41:53 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 12, 2015, 02:40:53 PM
Pearse was cosying up to Germany a few generations before the EU was ever heard of.

So was the UVF.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 14, 2015, 04:25:50 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 11, 2015, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on November 11, 2015, 11:11:16 PM
Are there any more out there used to remember the wars and the dead?
I wear the invisible poppy myself, where I choose to not remember any wars; and if anything I recall the British military actions here and then get angry for a bit.

BEST POST EVER ON THIS SITE!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 01, 2016, 01:45:11 PM
Rotund man from Portadown seen buying poppies from his elderly neighbour.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 01, 2016, 02:02:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2015, 03:36:18 PM
Am I correct in thinking only Albania and North Korea now live in isolationist bubbles pretending no other Countries exist?

I think it is only NK now.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 01:44:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwryDhSWgAEaI0k.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2016, 07:12:45 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2015, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2015, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 12, 2015, 02:40:53 PM
Pearse was cosying up to Germany a few generations before the EU was ever heard of.
Hardly surprising given the circumstances. Tone was cosying up to France. O Neill was cosying up to Spain. The Great Game works like that.

Red Hugh O'Donnell was cosying up to England when it suited him. As was O'Neill, who after all is an ancestor of Churchill.

Not to mention Art McMurrough.

That is Ireland to a 'T'.

Romantic Ireland is a powerful image, but it all ultimately comes down to me, me, me.
It was worth fighting for in the 16th century. Cos it is different. England went down a different road of conquest and Empire. The English way is to force things through regardless of what the plebs want. And England has reached the end of one particular road in some style this year. There is a report out that says half of the UK budget deficit goes back to deindustrialisation in the 1980s.

Gravity always wins.

When it comes to power nobody has any dignity. It was a privilege to be alive for the great crash of Fianna Fail.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2016, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 01:44:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwryDhSWgAEaI0k.jpg)

Oh Elmo, how could you?!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Bearded One on November 08, 2016, 11:01:34 AM
My office is awash with Poppy's, Poppy wrist bands, Poppy badges and today I noticed a Poppy pen.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lolafrola on November 08, 2016, 11:10:41 AM
I had this conversation with a company director last night and he said they have banned all emblems from their work place and it is a sack-able offence to wear anything like that to work. Where do you draw the line? If you say a Poppy is okay and then the next guy wears an Easter Lily which would cause offence to some.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hectic on November 08, 2016, 11:31:36 AM
Yeah radio phone ins always dredge the bottom of the pond.  I was laughing last week as there was a discussion about boycotting Israeli goods.  First two callers were saying they were now going out of their way to buy Israeli goods but their similarities did not end there - they were both angry when they hit the airwaves and they both resorted to shouting down anyone who had a different view to them on air.  Interesting as neither really had any rational points apart from a desire to side with Israel which is their own prerogative but felt the need to be forceful in the extreme with these views in a radio phone in context.  Would not want to be taking these shows too seriously otherwise you would end up with a fairly warped view of society.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 08, 2016, 12:36:52 PM
Wouldn't even know what an Israeli good would be. ? How do you go out of your way to buy them?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tonto1888 on November 08, 2016, 12:43:37 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 08, 2016, 12:36:52 PM
Wouldn't even know what an Israeli good would be. ? How do you go out of your way to buy them?

they generally say made in Israel on them
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hectic on November 08, 2016, 12:51:26 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 08, 2016, 12:43:37 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 08, 2016, 12:36:52 PM
Wouldn't even know what an Israeli good would be. ? How do you go out of your way to buy them?

they generally say made in Israel on them

I think you could even go beyond those with the Israeli markings if you were mad keen as many recognised names are also Israeli or Israeli backers - I did see a list at a time and it was fairly extensive - not something (boycotting food) I get into to be honest - generally stick to what is growing in the field beside the house or what has been run down on the road :)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 08, 2016, 01:13:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2016, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 01:44:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwryDhSWgAEaI0k.jpg)

Oh Elmo, how could you?!

That's not Elmo. That's the Cookie Monster I think.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 01:30:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 08, 2016, 01:13:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2016, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 01:44:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwryDhSWgAEaI0k.jpg)

Oh Elmo, how could you?!

That's not Elmo. That's the Cookie Monster I think.

That's Elmo beside the Cookie Monster.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 08, 2016, 01:32:50 PM
Cookie Monster was blue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5e6ftNpGsU
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 08, 2016, 01:38:12 PM
Eh?? That guy is blue, or else I'm losing my sight as well as my mind.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 08, 2016, 01:41:13 PM
One way of knowing one's political views in NI. If only there was a headcount etc.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2016, 02:56:58 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 08, 2016, 12:36:52 PM
Wouldn't even know what an Israeli good would be. ? How do you go out of your way to buy them?

Seen a slogan on a wall lately saying 'Boycott Isreal'. Says a lot if they can't even spell the feckin' place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2016, 02:58:54 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 08, 2016, 01:13:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2016, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 01:44:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwryDhSWgAEaI0k.jpg)

Oh Elmo, how could you?!

That's not Elmo. That's the Cookie Monster I think.

I bet he sold out for a packet of biscuits.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tonto1888 on November 08, 2016, 03:38:33 PM
Quote from: Hectic on November 08, 2016, 12:51:26 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 08, 2016, 12:43:37 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 08, 2016, 12:36:52 PM
Wouldn't even know what an Israeli good would be. ? How do you go out of your way to buy them?

they generally say made in Israel on them

I think you could even go beyond those with the Israeli markings if you were mad keen as many recognised names are also Israeli or Israeli backers - I did see a list at a time and it was fairly extensive - not something (boycotting food) I get into to be honest - generally stick to what is growing in the field beside the house or what has been run down on the road :)

just look up BDS online. I think 791 is the start of the barcode of israeli products
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 08, 2016, 06:06:39 PM
Frank Mitchell Mc Clorey has his on,on UTV live tonight
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 08, 2016, 06:26:05 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 08, 2016, 06:06:39 PM
Frank Mitchell Mc Clorey has his on,on UTV live tonight

He's a class one arse licker
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2016, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 08, 2016, 06:06:39 PM
Frank Mitchell Mc Clorey has his on,on UTV live tonight

Would it be in their contract that they have to wear one, or have they no minds of their own?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Take Your Points on November 08, 2016, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 08, 2016, 06:26:05 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 08, 2016, 06:06:39 PM
Frank Mitchell Mc Clorey has his on,on UTV live tonight

He's a class one arse licker

Isn't he a College man?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 09:50:24 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 08, 2016, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 08, 2016, 06:26:05 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 08, 2016, 06:06:39 PM
Frank Mitchell Mc Clorey has his on,on UTV live tonight

He's a class one arse licker

Isn't he a College man?

That explains it ;) :P ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: manfromdelmonte on November 08, 2016, 10:02:45 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/x03DDDp.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 10:15:53 PM
Everybody on the Graham Norton Show the other night wearing them apart from Sting....and the rest of his band..wasnt one of the girseacha on BBC NI given a hard time a few years ago for not wearing one...cant mind her name...Donna something maybe.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 10:15:53 PM
Everybody on the Graham Norton Show the other night wearing them apart from Sting....and the rest of his band..wasnt one of the girseacha on BBC NI given a hard time a few years ago for not wearing one...cant mind her name...Donna something maybe.

Traynor? Sting has form..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 10:21:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 10:15:53 PM
Everybody on the Graham Norton Show the other night wearing them apart from Sting....and the rest of his band..wasnt one of the girseacha on BBC NI given a hard time a few years ago for not wearing one...cant mind her name...Donna something maybe.

Traynor? Sting has form..

He looks ridiculously cool for 65.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 10:15:53 PM
Everybody on the Graham Norton Show the other night wearing them apart from Sting....and the rest of his band..wasnt one of the girseacha on BBC NI given a hard time a few years ago for not wearing one...cant mind her name...Donna something maybe.

Traynor? Sting has form..

He sure does.

He was run out of Connemara by the IRA....

The West Brit b'stard.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 11:15:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 10:15:53 PM
Everybody on the Graham Norton Show the other night wearing them apart from Sting....and the rest of his band..wasnt one of the girseacha on BBC NI given a hard time a few years ago for not wearing one...cant mind her name...Donna something maybe.

Traynor? Sting has form..

He sure does.

He was run out of Connemara by the IRA....

The West Brit b'stard.

Didnt know that..go ahead.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 08, 2016, 11:16:04 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/picture/2016/nov/08/david-squires-football-poppy-fury-season
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 08, 2016, 11:20:17 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 11:15:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2016, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 08, 2016, 10:15:53 PM
Everybody on the Graham Norton Show the other night wearing them apart from Sting....and the rest of his band..wasnt one of the girseacha on BBC NI given a hard time a few years ago for not wearing one...cant mind her name...Donna something maybe.

Traynor? Sting has form..

He sure does.

He was run out of Connemara by the IRA....

The West Brit b'stard.

Didnt know that..go ahead.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/peter-otoole-and-the-wild-west-of-ireland-259057.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/peter-otoole-and-the-wild-west-of-ireland-259057.html)

....Somehow, perhaps inevitably, we found ourselves at the centre of bizarre dramas.

Such as the time the rock star Sting, then married to Irish actress Frances Tomelty, had rented a house in nearby Roundstone. Sting would roar through the town, burly bodyguard riding pillion, on a vast motorbike on his way to see O'Toole out at the house.

But that summer's holiday didn't last for long. After only a few weeks, on a day I'll never forget, Sting barged breathless through the door of my uncle Frank's bar at lunchtime. "I have to go! I have to go! Where's everybody? Where's Peter?" he shouted.

As the kerfuffle ensued in the adjoining off-licence, I returned to serving customers. Then, a few minutes later, Sting with bodyguard roared off, never to be seen in these parts again.

Later that day, O'Toole arrived in and claimed that Sting had received death threats from the Provisional IRA and terrified — this wasn't long after the H-Block protest and black coffins still adorned some lampposts in town — he upped and fled back to England.

We all thought it was a terrible drama until I asked O'Toole, grinning from ear to ear, if they had really threatened to kill Sting.

"Did they f**k! But those feckers down in Roundstone couldn't stand him so they ran him out!" Our laughter crackled through the building. "IRA my arse!" O'Toole roared.

Poor Sting....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 09, 2016, 10:58:04 PM
Frankie Mitchell wearing his tonight again
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 09, 2016, 11:08:23 PM
Sure you're as bad given that you buy one thus contributing to the cause. Frankie, in fairness, probably has his supplied by UTV and therefore doesn't contribute to the cause.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: MoChara on November 10, 2016, 08:24:15 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on November 08, 2016, 10:02:45 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/x03DDDp.jpg)

Cookie Monster takes the soup, I'd say there's a bit of Jackeen in him.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 10, 2016, 11:49:24 PM
Frank Mitchell tonight again >:(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 10, 2016, 11:53:19 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 10, 2016, 11:49:24 PM
Frank Mitchell tonight again >:(

Disgraceful. You're a married man!  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 11, 2016, 06:44:15 PM
And tonight yet again😡😡😡
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Far East on November 11, 2016, 06:51:24 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 11, 2016, 06:44:15 PM
And tonight yet again😡😡😡

2 angry, hypocritical w**ks in 1 day? That's impressive for a man of your age and poor physical condition...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on November 11, 2016, 07:42:50 PM
England and Scotland made a big hoohaa over the wearing of poppies and then spend 5 mins disrespecting each other's national anthems  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2016, 11:08:41 PM
Rosamund Pike hates the dead British soldiers who fought for her freedom to sit on Graham Norton's sofa WITH NO f**king POPPY ON!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2016, 11:16:24 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2016, 11:08:41 PM
Rosamund Pike hates the dead British soldiers who fought for her freedom to sit on Graham Norton's sofa WITH NO f**king POPPY ON!

Off with her head!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2016, 11:53:43 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 11, 2016, 07:42:50 PM
England and Scotland made a big hoohaa over the wearing of poppies and then spend 5 mins disrespecting each other's national anthems  ;D

Scotland disrespecting English is a bit rich especially when they rejected independence from them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: mrdeeds on November 12, 2016, 12:36:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2016, 11:53:43 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 11, 2016, 07:42:50 PM
England and Scotland made a big hoohaa over the wearing of poppies and then spend 5 mins disrespecting each other's national anthems  ;D

Scotland disrespecting English is a bit rich especially when they rejected independence from them.

Being pedantic was it not the UK they rejected independence from rather than England?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 14, 2016, 02:35:30 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 12, 2016, 12:36:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2016, 11:53:43 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 11, 2016, 07:42:50 PM
England and Scotland made a big hoohaa over the wearing of poppies and then spend 5 mins disrespecting each other's national anthems  ;D

Scotland disrespecting English is a bit rich especially when they rejected independence from them.

Being pedantic was it not the UK they rejected independence from rather than England?

Honey G getting it now for tweeting during the 2 minutes of silence. That must have been yesterday, was it?

I didn't realise there was to be a total lockdown of the interweb as well now!

FFS, get over yerselves..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on November 14, 2016, 02:44:52 PM
I'll leave this here. Nothing else needs said....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxKikqAXcAApaIL.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: yellowcard on November 14, 2016, 03:11:42 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on November 14, 2016, 02:44:52 PM
I'll leave this here. Nothing else needs said....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxKikqAXcAApaIL.jpg)

That is just nuts.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 14, 2016, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 12, 2016, 12:36:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2016, 11:53:43 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 11, 2016, 07:42:50 PM
England and Scotland made a big hoohaa over the wearing of poppies and then spend 5 mins disrespecting each other's national anthems  ;D

Scotland disrespecting English is a bit rich especially when they rejected independence from them.

Being pedantic was it not the UK they rejected independence from rather than England?

Same thing in reality
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ziggysego on November 14, 2016, 05:27:15 PM
I was watching a recording of The Graham Norton Show I missed on Friday. Rosamund Pike on was it, I wasn't sure who she was. So I Googled her. Anyway, she's getting dogs abuse for not wearing a Poppy on the show.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 14, 2016, 05:58:28 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 14, 2016, 05:27:15 PM
Rosamund Pike on was it, I wasn't sure who she was. So I Googled her.

I bet you did!  Google imaged her  no doubt.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 14, 2016, 06:02:09 PM
Nigel "Mr Britain" Farage getting stick for not wearing his poppy while meeting with his idol, Donald Trump, over the weekend.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 14, 2016, 06:29:38 PM
Did her dress not have a poppy motif?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 14, 2016, 06:02:09 PM
Nigel "Mr Britain" Farage getting stick for not wearing his poppy while meeting with his idol, Donald Trump, over the weekend.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/us-election-2016/irish-tv-producer-trump-wouldnt-shake-my-hand-i-just-dont-know-where-its-been-35207531.html (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/us-election-2016/irish-tv-producer-trump-wouldnt-shake-my-hand-i-just-dont-know-where-its-been-35207531.html)

...When Trump finally arrived at the airport, I had been waiting in his jet for almost an hour. A flurry of activity meant that he had boarded the plane. I stepped forward to introduce myself and held out my hand. Trump declined to shake it. "It's nothing personal," he told me. "It's just that I don't know where that hand has been."...


I'd say Trump's paranoia rules out things like men wearing flowers for no obvious reason.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 14, 2016, 09:45:53 PM
Seen a copper today with a Poppy pinned to his hat. He looked like a knobhead.

Two things though:

- Should the PSNI not be neutral ie. no emblems?
- Isn't Poppy Day over?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:32:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2016, 09:45:53 PM
Seen a copper today with a Poppy pinned to his hat. He looked like a knobhead.

Two things though:

- Should the PSNI not be neutral ie. no emblems?
- Isn't Poppy Day over?

Nope.

Poppy on the left breast.
Lily on the right.

It's all about balance. And support.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: passedit on November 15, 2016, 09:12:01 AM
https://twitter.com/fishplums/status/798300098774134785 (https://twitter.com/fishplums/status/798300098774134785)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 15, 2016, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2016, 09:45:53 PM
Seen a copper today with a Poppy pinned to his hat. He looked like a knobhead.

Two things though:

- Should the PSNI not be neutral ie. no emblems?
- Isn't Poppy Day over?

What the hell were you doing in Larne? (or any black hole for that matter)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 12:33:27 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 15, 2016, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2016, 09:45:53 PM
Seen a copper today with a Poppy pinned to his hat. He looked like a knobhead.

Two things though:

- Should the PSNI not be neutral ie. no emblems?
- Isn't Poppy Day over?

What the hell were you doing in Larne? (or any black hole for that matter)

You're never far from a black hole in this place.

And it was in the Orchard county.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dire Ear on November 15, 2016, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 12:33:27 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 15, 2016, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2016, 09:45:53 PM
Seen a copper today with a Poppy pinned to his hat. He looked like a knobhead.

Two things though:

- Should the PSNI not be neutral ie. no emblems?
- Isn't Poppy Day over?

What the hell were you doing in Larne? (or any black hole for that matter)

You're never far from a black hole in this place.

And it was in the Orchard county.

and Coalisland
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 15, 2016, 02:21:51 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 14, 2016, 05:27:15 PM
I was watching a recording of The Graham Norton Show I missed on Friday. Rosamund Pike on was it, I wasn't sure who she was. So I Googled her. Anyway, she's getting dogs abuse for not wearing a Poppy on the show.

Lovely looking woman and a fine actress.

This poppy abuse is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 15, 2016, 02:46:00 PM
Quote from: stew on November 15, 2016, 02:21:51 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 14, 2016, 05:27:15 PM
I was watching a recording of The Graham Norton Show I missed on Friday. Rosamund Pike on was it, I wasn't sure who she was. So I Googled her. Anyway, she's getting dogs abuse for not wearing a Poppy on the show.

Lovely looking woman and a fine actress.

This poppy abuse is ridiculous.

It is, but like the booing of the "national" anthems on friday night in Wembley will be brushed over by meeja.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I wonder what Elmo's thought were on being forced to wear a poppy on the One Show?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Aristo 60 on November 17, 2016, 05:37:03 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37972265

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: manfromdelmonte on November 17, 2016, 09:41:47 PM
Child in my school was wearing a poppy the other day

I pretended not to notice. He's always doing things looking for attention
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: omaghjoe on November 17, 2016, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on November 17, 2016, 09:41:47 PM
Child in my school was wearing a poppy the other day

I pretended not to notice. He's always doing things looking for attention

That reminds me of a fella that I went to school with wore a Rangers jersey to sports day. When challenged he just kept saying "I just like the look of it"

Worked a treat tho, people still refer to him as the dickhead who wore the Rangers jersey to sports day
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Puckoon on November 18, 2016, 03:07:05 AM
Joe, are those people and you 12? You really still judge the 12-16 year olds you went to school with in your 30s?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: omaghjoe on November 18, 2016, 04:20:54 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 18, 2016, 03:07:05 AM
Joe, are those people and you 12? You really still judge the 12-16 year olds you went to school with in your 30s?

No not judge just a way of identifying someone and give him a bit of shit. I actually seen him out a loc o years back tho and give him bit o grief about it, he took it in the manner it was administered "a bit o slaggin" he had plenty for me too. Some lads called him Ally into 7th year. 

You musta been mates with the same individual eh Puck? Or maybe you are him.... ;) Im fairly sure your not not tho.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: No wides on November 18, 2016, 10:08:46 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 17, 2016, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on November 17, 2016, 09:41:47 PM
Child in my school was wearing a poppy the other day

I pretended not to notice. He's always doing things looking for attention

That reminds me of a fella that I went to school with wore a Rangers jersey to sports day. When challenged he just kept saying "I just like the look of it"

Worked a treat tho, people still refer to him as the d**khead who wore the Rangers jersey to sports day

You be glad to know you are referred to as he dickhead on the GAABOARD.  ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Take Your Points on November 18, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I wonder what Elmo's thought were on being forced to wear a poppy on the One Show?

He is a puppet, a piece of cloth and a few other materials operated by a person.  He is not a living thing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 18, 2016, 10:37:58 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 18, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I wonder what Elmo's thought were on being forced to wear a poppy on the One Show?

He is a puppet
, a piece of cloth and a few other materials operated by a person.  He is not a living thing.

Bit like some of the breathing presenters.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 18, 2016, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 18, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I wonder what Elmo's thought were on being forced to wear a poppy on the One Show?

He is a puppet, a piece of cloth and a few other materials operated by a person.  He is not a living thing.

Can we keep all the Trump stuff in the US Politics thread?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rosnarun on November 18, 2016, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 18, 2016, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 18, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I wonder what Elmo's thought were on being forced to wear a poppy on the One Show?

He is a puppet, a piece of cloth and a few other materials operated by a person.  He is not a living thing.

Can we keep all the Trump stuff in the US Politics thread?
you obviously don't think so
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Keyser soze on November 18, 2016, 12:33:35 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 18, 2016, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 18, 2016, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 18, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I wonder what Elmo's thought were on being forced to wear a poppy on the One Show?

He is a puppet, a piece of cloth and a few other materials operated by a person.  He is not a living thing.

Can we keep all the Trump stuff in the US Politics thread?


you obviously don't think so

Or he was making a funny.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on November 18, 2016, 01:01:19 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 18, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I wonder what Elmo's thought were on being forced to wear a poppy on the One Show?

He is a puppet, a piece of cloth and a few other materials operated by a person.  He is not a living thing.

Just a small point, it was Cookie Monster not Elmo..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2016, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 18, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I wonder what Elmo's thought were on being forced to wear a poppy on the One Show?

He is a puppet, a piece of cloth and a few other materials operated by a person.  He is not a living thing.

Technically he is a muppet.

The Puppocrats and Muplicans split sometime in the 1950s.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 18, 2016, 08:17:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 18, 2016, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 18, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I wonder what Elmo's thought were on being forced to wear a poppy on the One Show?

He is a puppet, a piece of cloth and a few other materials operated by a person.  He is not a living thing.

Technically he is a muppet.

The Puppocrats and Muplicans split sometime in the 1950s.

Twice in the last few days news reports from the Somme have made a comment along the lines of "this corner of France will forever be a part of England".

I thought our local poppy fascists would be getting that corrected

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: sid waddell on November 21, 2016, 03:39:46 PM
Britain's favourite columnist, Jeremy Hopkiss, weighs in with a searing demolition of the unpatriotic, non-poppy-wearing pinkos...

SIZE MATTERS - OUR PROUD POPPY IS BEING DISRESPECTED BY THE FASCIST PC LEFT

HOPKISS AT LARGE - BRITAIN'S NUMBER ONE - PROUD, PATRIOTIC, BUT DEFINITELY NOT PC!

Remembrance Sunday. The Prime Minister stands with her poppy proudly pinned to her jacket in sombre remembrance of those who fought for our freedom, and who continue to fight for it today in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

Beside her, the Leader of "the Opposition", one Mr. Jeremy Corbyn, stands there with a poppy lapel so tiny you'd need a telescope to see it. Corbyn bows his head as if he is saying prayers to the Muslim God of Allah. Once the last post has finished, Corbyn, thinking he is off camera, decides to do a little dance on the spot, presumably imagining he is dancing on the graves of our finest, bravest men.

This is what the fascist left thinks of Remembrance Sunday, this is what the fascist left thinks of the poppy, this is what the fascist left thinks of our armed forces, this is what the fascist left thinks of the wars we're currently fighting. It is shameful.

Why does Corbyn wear such a tiny poppy lapel? It's because he is the enemy within. He stands against every decent value the good, decent, hardworking people of this country stand for. If this is what he does in public, just imagine what he does at behind closed doors Labour party meetings where Godless communists and "pacifists" and "anti-nuclear" campaigners gather to plot a course towards their miserable fantasy idea of Britain, a nightmare for everybody else, which, if it does not have a stake ploughed through its rotten heart very soon, could well turn this country into another Soviet Union.

This, of course, is nothing new. The left hides behind the cowardly euphemism "freedom of expression". The hypocrisy is staggering, when these people would have the likes of you and me in their own versions of the gulag if they could have their sordid ways.

Contrast that sickening mental picture to the pride on show at the world's greatest stadium as British football united in grief and remembrance. Everybody who was at Wembley last Saturday to see our footballers put on a magnificent performance worthy of the proud nature of the occasion will never forget it. Britain remembered its fallen as one. England and Scotland stood proudly together, poppies on show for the watching world to see. The National Anthem was observed with a spine-tingling reverence.

But what a disgrace that the only poppies that were allowed by FIFA and UEFA were on the players' armbands. International interference like this is why we decided to stand up and leave Europe. We knew it was the right decision at the time, but with every passing week it shines more proudly as a heroic act of patriotic defiance against the imperial European establishment. Our children and grandchildren will thank us for it in the same way we now thank those who fought for our freedom against Nazi tyranny, and continue to thank those who fight against Islam in the Middle East.

There should be no compromise, no surrender on the poppy issue. Next year, our teams will proudly sport one on their shirts, where they should be.

British football as a whole, with a few notable exceptions such as the vile, unpatriotic supporters of clubs like IRA-sympathising Celtic, the feckless Hibernian and the drunken murdering, unpatriotic scum of Liverpool, has stood up for our heroes. It's one of the great joys as a freedom-loving Briton to see our armed forces appearing at Premier League grounds in the weeks leading up to Remembrance Sunday and the giant poppy displays in the crowd are a wonderful, uniquely British tradition. These real heroes could teach the diving foreigners now polluting our football a thing or two about bravery, honesty, integrity and real fighting spirit.

But it sickens me that it's one of our British players who has brought the most shame to football. James McClean comes from Londonderry in Northern Ireland, right here in Britain. But McClean has chosen to disrespect his country, firstly by deciding to play for Southern Ireland, the deserting dunces of the Union, and even more importantly by outright refusing to wear the poppy on his shirt while playing in our domestic football. It's an act of disrespect which would make you weep for the good old-fashioned British values of knowing your place and doing your duty.

McClean, it will not surprise people to know, is an IRA sympathiser who has refused to face the Union Jack in the past. But years after the Army destroyed the IRA, McClean is committing his own atrocities on the pitch year after year which amount to nothing less than bloodless acts of terrorism. And equally disgracefully, McClean pathetically claims to be the victim of online bullying. The reality is, he's brought it entirely upon himself. Don't come to OUR country and disrespect OUR traditions and think you can get away with it, young man.

The fact that McClean scored a goal for Southern Ireland in a match on Remembrance weekend was the final insult to what our brave men fought for. They didn't fight for somebody to desert their own country. West Bromwich Albion should be ashamed of themselves that they continue to employ somebody who stands against the values that made this country great. The fascist PC left liberal brigade, unsurprisingly, supports him. One shall know a person by their friends.

And who else is an IRA sympathiser? That's right. One Jeremy Corbyn. The circle of disgrace is complete.



Jezza's Poppy Appeal:

Dear readers, sporting a poppy is one of our proudest traditions. But why is it just for two weeks leading up to Remembrance Sunday? Our armed forces fight every day of the year. So shouldn't we wear a poppy every day of the year? A poppy shouldn't just be for November, it should be for Christmas too, and all other times. So, come on everybody, come on Royal British Legion, let's get the word out there. Let's give the poppy the respect it deserves. Let's make it permanent.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2016, 04:20:22 PM
Jeremy F**kwit, more like. Typical Brit attitude towards this part of the world. What a tool.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 21, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2016, 04:20:22 PM
Jeremy F**kwit, more like. Typical Brit attitude towards this part of the world. What a tool.

I'm unsure if you're being serious or not...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2016, 04:40:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 21, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2016, 04:20:22 PM
Jeremy F**kwit, more like. Typical Brit attitude towards this part of the world. What a tool.

I'm unsure if you're being serious or not...

I was scratching my head at that one too.  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tonto1888 on November 21, 2016, 04:57:13 PM
Is that an actual published columnist?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 21, 2016, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 21, 2016, 04:57:13 PM
Is that an actual published columnist?

Says a lot about where the likes of the Daily Mail are sinking to if that question is being asked.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2016, 05:07:19 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 21, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2016, 04:20:22 PM
Jeremy F**kwit, more like. Typical Brit attitude towards this part of the world. What a tool.

I'm unsure if you're being serious or not...

I was referring to the James McClean bit.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 21, 2016, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2016, 05:07:19 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 21, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2016, 04:20:22 PM
Jeremy F**kwit, more like. Typical Brit attitude towards this part of the world. What a tool.

I'm unsure if you're being serious or not...

I was referring to the James McClean bit.

Maybe you should complain to the media outlet that published the piece.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 21, 2016, 05:15:12 PM
That column should be enough to land that f**ker in jail.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2016, 06:23:59 PM
Sid you are a star.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 21, 2016, 06:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 21, 2016, 05:15:12 PM
That column should be enough to land that f**ker in jail.

Who? Sid?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 21, 2016, 07:37:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 21, 2016, 06:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 21, 2016, 05:15:12 PM
That column should be enough to land that f**ker in jail.

Who? Sid?

To be fair, I think the column your man Hopkiss wrote on Canice Picklington was worse.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2016, 03:39:46 PM
Britain's favourite columnist, Jeremy Hopkiss, weighs in with a searing demolition of the unpatriotic, non-poppy-wearing pinkos...

SIZE MATTERS - OUR PROUD POPPY IS BEING DISRESPECTED BY THE FASCIST PC LEFT

HOPKISS AT LARGE - BRITAIN'S NUMBER ONE - PROUD, PATRIOTIC, BUT DEFINITELY NOT PC!

Remembrance Sunday. The Prime Minister stands with her poppy proudly pinned to her jacket in sombre remembrance of those who fought for our freedom, and who continue to fight for it today in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

Beside her, the Leader of "the Opposition", one Mr. Jeremy Corbyn, stands there with a poppy lapel so tiny you'd need a telescope to see it. Corbyn bows his head as if he is saying prayers to the Muslim God of Allah. Once the last post has finished, Corbyn, thinking he is off camera, decides to do a little dance on the spot, presumably imagining he is dancing on the graves of our finest, bravest men.

This is what the fascist left thinks of Remembrance Sunday, this is what the fascist left thinks of the poppy, this is what the fascist left thinks of our armed forces, this is what the fascist left thinks of the wars we're currently fighting. It is shameful.

Why does Corbyn wear such a tiny poppy lapel? It's because he is the enemy within. He stands against every decent value the good, decent, hardworking people of this country stand for. If this is what he does in public, just imagine what he does at behind closed doors Labour party meetings where Godless communists and "pacifists" and "anti-nuclear" campaigners gather to plot a course towards their miserable fantasy idea of Britain, a nightmare for everybody else, which, if it does not have a stake ploughed through its rotten heart very soon, could well turn this country into another Soviet Union.

This, of course, is nothing new. The left hides behind the cowardly euphemism "freedom of expression". The hypocrisy is staggering, when these people would have the likes of you and me in their own versions of the gulag if they could have their sordid ways.

Contrast that sickening mental picture to the pride on show at the world's greatest stadium as British football united in grief and remembrance. Everybody who was at Wembley last Saturday to see our footballers put on a magnificent performance worthy of the proud nature of the occasion will never forget it. Britain remembered its fallen as one. England and Scotland stood proudly together, poppies on show for the watching world to see. The National Anthem was observed with a spine-tingling reverence.

But what a disgrace that the only poppies that were allowed by FIFA and UEFA were on the players' armbands. International interference like this is why we decided to stand up and leave Europe. We knew it was the right decision at the time, but with every passing week it shines more proudly as a heroic act of patriotic defiance against the imperial European establishment. Our children and grandchildren will thank us for it in the same way we now thank those who fought for our freedom against Nazi tyranny, and continue to thank those who fight against Islam in the Middle East.

There should be no compromise, no surrender on the poppy issue. Next year, our teams will proudly sport one on their shirts, where they should be.

British football as a whole, with a few notable exceptions such as the vile, unpatriotic supporters of clubs like IRA-sympathising Celtic, the feckless Hibernian and the drunken murdering, unpatriotic scum of Liverpool, has stood up for our heroes. It's one of the great joys as a freedom-loving Briton to see our armed forces appearing at Premier League grounds in the weeks leading up to Remembrance Sunday and the giant poppy displays in the crowd are a wonderful, uniquely British tradition. These real heroes could teach the diving foreigners now polluting our football a thing or two about bravery, honesty, integrity and real fighting spirit.

But it sickens me that it's one of our British players who has brought the most shame to football. James McClean comes from Londonderry in Northern Ireland, right here in Britain. But McClean has chosen to disrespect his country, firstly by deciding to play for Southern Ireland, the deserting dunces of the Union, and even more importantly by outright refusing to wear the poppy on his shirt while playing in our domestic football. It's an act of disrespect which would make you weep for the good old-fashioned British values of knowing your place and doing your duty.

McClean, it will not surprise people to know, is an IRA sympathiser who has refused to face the Union Jack in the past. But years after the Army destroyed the IRA, McClean is committing his own atrocities on the pitch year after year which amount to nothing less than bloodless acts of terrorism. And equally disgracefully, McClean pathetically claims to be the victim of online bullying. The reality is, he's brought it entirely upon himself. Don't come to OUR country and disrespect OUR traditions and think you can get away with it, young man.

The fact that McClean scored a goal for Southern Ireland in a match on Remembrance weekend was the final insult to what our brave men fought for. They didn't fight for somebody to desert their own country. West Bromwich Albion should be ashamed of themselves that they continue to employ somebody who stands against the values that made this country great. The fascist PC left liberal brigade, unsurprisingly, supports him. One shall know a person by their friends.

And who else is an IRA sympathiser? That's right. One Jeremy Corbyn. The circle of disgrace is complete.



Jezza's Poppy Appeal:

Dear readers, sporting a poppy is one of our proudest traditions. But why is it just for two weeks leading up to Remembrance Sunday? Our armed forces fight every day of the year. So shouldn't we wear a poppy every day of the year? A poppy shouldn't just be for November, it should be for Christmas too, and all other times. So, come on everybody, come on Royal British Legion, let's get the word out there. Let's give the poppy the respect it deserves. Let's make it permanent.

That man needs a straightjacket, dude be outta his mind!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: ludermor on November 22, 2016, 11:07:14 AM
Quote from: stew on November 22, 2016, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2016, 03:39:46 PM
Britain's favourite columnist, Jeremy Hopkiss, weighs in with a searing demolition of the unpatriotic, non-poppy-wearing pinkos...

SIZE MATTERS - OUR PROUD POPPY IS BEING DISRESPECTED BY THE FASCIST PC LEFT

HOPKISS AT LARGE - BRITAIN'S NUMBER ONE - PROUD, PATRIOTIC, BUT DEFINITELY NOT PC!

Remembrance Sunday. The Prime Minister stands with her poppy proudly pinned to her jacket in sombre remembrance of those who fought for our freedom, and who continue to fight for it today in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

Beside her, the Leader of "the Opposition", one Mr. Jeremy Corbyn, stands there with a poppy lapel so tiny you'd need a telescope to see it. Corbyn bows his head as if he is saying prayers to the Muslim God of Allah. Once the last post has finished, Corbyn, thinking he is off camera, decides to do a little dance on the spot, presumably imagining he is dancing on the graves of our finest, bravest men.

This is what the fascist left thinks of Remembrance Sunday, this is what the fascist left thinks of the poppy, this is what the fascist left thinks of our armed forces, this is what the fascist left thinks of the wars we're currently fighting. It is shameful.

Why does Corbyn wear such a tiny poppy lapel? It's because he is the enemy within. He stands against every decent value the good, decent, hardworking people of this country stand for. If this is what he does in public, just imagine what he does at behind closed doors Labour party meetings where Godless communists and "pacifists" and "anti-nuclear" campaigners gather to plot a course towards their miserable fantasy idea of Britain, a nightmare for everybody else, which, if it does not have a stake ploughed through its rotten heart very soon, could well turn this country into another Soviet Union.

This, of course, is nothing new. The left hides behind the cowardly euphemism "freedom of expression". The hypocrisy is staggering, when these people would have the likes of you and me in their own versions of the gulag if they could have their sordid ways.

Contrast that sickening mental picture to the pride on show at the world's greatest stadium as British football united in grief and remembrance. Everybody who was at Wembley last Saturday to see our footballers put on a magnificent performance worthy of the proud nature of the occasion will never forget it. Britain remembered its fallen as one. England and Scotland stood proudly together, poppies on show for the watching world to see. The National Anthem was observed with a spine-tingling reverence.

But what a disgrace that the only poppies that were allowed by FIFA and UEFA were on the players' armbands. International interference like this is why we decided to stand up and leave Europe. We knew it was the right decision at the time, but with every passing week it shines more proudly as a heroic act of patriotic defiance against the imperial European establishment. Our children and grandchildren will thank us for it in the same way we now thank those who fought for our freedom against Nazi tyranny, and continue to thank those who fight against Islam in the Middle East.

There should be no compromise, no surrender on the poppy issue. Next year, our teams will proudly sport one on their shirts, where they should be.

British football as a whole, with a few notable exceptions such as the vile, unpatriotic supporters of clubs like IRA-sympathising Celtic, the feckless Hibernian and the drunken murdering, unpatriotic scum of Liverpool, has stood up for our heroes. It's one of the great joys as a freedom-loving Briton to see our armed forces appearing at Premier League grounds in the weeks leading up to Remembrance Sunday and the giant poppy displays in the crowd are a wonderful, uniquely British tradition. These real heroes could teach the diving foreigners now polluting our football a thing or two about bravery, honesty, integrity and real fighting spirit.

But it sickens me that it's one of our British players who has brought the most shame to football. James McClean comes from Londonderry in Northern Ireland, right here in Britain. But McClean has chosen to disrespect his country, firstly by deciding to play for Southern Ireland, the deserting dunces of the Union, and even more importantly by outright refusing to wear the poppy on his shirt while playing in our domestic football. It's an act of disrespect which would make you weep for the good old-fashioned British values of knowing your place and doing your duty.

McClean, it will not surprise people to know, is an IRA sympathiser who has refused to face the Union Jack in the past. But years after the Army destroyed the IRA, McClean is committing his own atrocities on the pitch year after year which amount to nothing less than bloodless acts of terrorism. And equally disgracefully, McClean pathetically claims to be the victim of online bullying. The reality is, he's brought it entirely upon himself. Don't come to OUR country and disrespect OUR traditions and think you can get away with it, young man.

The fact that McClean scored a goal for Southern Ireland in a match on Remembrance weekend was the final insult to what our brave men fought for. They didn't fight for somebody to desert their own country. West Bromwich Albion should be ashamed of themselves that they continue to employ somebody who stands against the values that made this country great. The fascist PC left liberal brigade, unsurprisingly, supports him. One shall know a person by their friends.

And who else is an IRA sympathiser? That's right. One Jeremy Corbyn. The circle of disgrace is complete.



Jezza's Poppy Appeal:

Dear readers, sporting a poppy is one of our proudest traditions. But why is it just for two weeks leading up to Remembrance Sunday? Our armed forces fight every day of the year. So shouldn't we wear a poppy every day of the year? A poppy shouldn't just be for November, it should be for Christmas too, and all other times. So, come on everybody, come on Royal British Legion, let's get the word out there. Let's give the poppy the respect it deserves. Let's make it permanent.

That man needs a straightjacket, dude be outta his mind!
http://forum.ybig.ie/jeremy-hopkiss-britains-number-one-columnist_topic51471_page1.html
http://tfk.thefreekick.com/t/jeremy-hopkiss-britains-number-one-columnist-right-because-hes-right-wing/23418
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on December 19, 2016, 03:28:30 PM
Norn Iron and the other 3 fined for their Poppy charade. A few grand will hardly make them stop doing it next year though, will it?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on December 20, 2016, 09:19:22 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 19, 2016, 03:28:30 PM
Norn Iron and the other 3 fined for their Poppy charade. A few grand will hardly make them stop doing it next year though, will it?
Its no more a charade than wearing the Easter Lily. Comments here just show that the Unionist side are correct when treating everything coming from SF with suspicion.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 20, 2016, 09:59:20 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 20, 2016, 09:19:22 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 19, 2016, 03:28:30 PM
Norn Iron and the other 3 fined for their Poppy charade. A few grand will hardly make them stop doing it next year though, will it?
Its no more a charade than wearing the Easter Lily. Comments here just show that the Unionist side are correct when treating everything coming from SF with suspicion.

The Irish team didn't wear an Easter lily.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on December 20, 2016, 10:00:49 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on December 20, 2016, 09:19:22 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 19, 2016, 03:28:30 PM
Norn Iron and the other 3 fined for their Poppy charade. A few grand will hardly make them stop doing it next year though, will it?
Its no more a charade than wearing the Easter Lily. Comments here just show that the Unionist side are correct when treating everything coming from SF with suspicion.

But Easter lilies aren't worn on football shirts.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on January 03, 2017, 12:56:44 PM
Spotted a woman in derry with one on the other day, early or what!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: clarshack on September 24, 2017, 11:11:37 PM
Have I Got News For You on BBC 1 right now. An old episode but you just know the timing is deliberate and that it will now be acceptable to wear a poppy from now on in. getting earlier and earlier as each year passes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: clarshack on September 24, 2017, 11:16:51 PM
also with FIFA lifting the poppy ban it's been a good day for the fascists.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on September 24, 2017, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

The fascists, apparently.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: screenexile on September 24, 2017, 11:59:48 PM
A lot of lads go out of their way to be offended... a repeat of HIGNFY where they were wearing Poppies??

You need to get out more man!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 07:18:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 24, 2017, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

The fascists, apparently.

Lily wearers are fascists?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: punt kick on September 25, 2017, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: clarshack on September 24, 2017, 11:11:37 PM
Have I Got News For You on BBC 1 right now. An old episode but you just know the timing is deliberate and that it will now be acceptable to wear a poppy from now on in. getting earlier and earlier as each year passes.

I put a match of the day I recorded last November and Gary Lineker was wearing a poppy, bastards, couldn't believe it!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on September 25, 2017, 03:36:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 07:18:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 24, 2017, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

The fascists, apparently.

Lily wearers are fascists?

See #1803
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 06:07:04 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 25, 2017, 03:36:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 07:18:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 24, 2017, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

The fascists, apparently.

Lily wearers are fascists?

See #1803

See #Can't be arsed

Symbols representing wars will be viewed by one tradition as being offensive cause they are like to be offended
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: playwiththewind1st on September 25, 2017, 08:17:43 PM
Quote from: punt kick on September 25, 2017, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: clarshack on September 24, 2017, 11:11:37 PM
Have I Got News For You on BBC 1 right now. An old episode but you just know the timing is deliberate and that it will now be acceptable to wear a poppy from now on in. getting earlier and earlier as each year passes.

I put a match of the day I recorded last November and Gary Lineker was wearing a poppy, b**tards, couldn't believe it!

Was the score still the same?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on September 25, 2017, 09:05:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 06:07:04 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 25, 2017, 03:36:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 07:18:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 24, 2017, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

The fascists, apparently.

Lily wearers are fascists?

See #1803

See #Can't be arsed

Symbols representing wars will be viewed by one tradition as being offensive cause they are like to be offended

I'm not offended per se, but the poppy display ensures that I will never support of the six county soccer team. In fact, the poppy display is one of many reasons.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on September 25, 2017, 09:09:30 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 25, 2017, 09:05:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 06:07:04 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 25, 2017, 03:36:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 07:18:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 24, 2017, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

The fascists, apparently.

Lily wearers are fascists?

See #1803

See #Can't be arsed

Symbols representing wars will be viewed by one tradition as being offensive cause they are like to be offended

I'm not offended per se, but the poppy display ensures that I will never support of the six county soccer team. In fact, the poppy display is one of many reasons.
Would you automatically support the opposition then?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: magpie seanie on September 25, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

I've never heard of people being pretty much obliged to wear lilies on TV shows of playing football. So not the same.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on September 25, 2017, 10:17:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on September 25, 2017, 09:09:30 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 25, 2017, 09:05:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 06:07:04 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 25, 2017, 03:36:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 07:18:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 24, 2017, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

The fascists, apparently.

Lily wearers are fascists?

See #1803

See #Can't be arsed

Symbols representing wars will be viewed by one tradition as being offensive cause they are like to be offended

I'm not offended per se, but the poppy display ensures that I will never support of the six county soccer team. In fact, the poppy display is one of many reasons.
Would you automatically support the opposition then?

No, in the same way that you would not automatically support anyone who plays England, or anyone that plays Ireland.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

I've never heard of people being pretty much obliged to wear lilies on TV shows of playing football. So not the same.

Anyone that wears a poppy on the BBC wears it cause they want too, if they don't want to they won't... so take that issue up with them
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tonto1888 on September 25, 2017, 10:53:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

I've never heard of people being pretty much obliged to wear lilies on TV shows of playing football. So not the same.

Anyone that wears a poppy on the BBC wears it cause they want too, if they don't want to they won't... so take that issue up with them

Not sure about that
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 25, 2017, 10:53:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

I've never heard of people being pretty much obliged to wear lilies on TV shows of playing football. So not the same.

Anyone that wears a poppy on the BBC wears it cause they want too, if they don't want to they won't... so take that issue up with them

Not sure about that

Well more fool them for wearing it, purely personal choice as legally you don't have to. I could be wrong there but I doubt it very much... obviously if they are wearing against their "stance" then they are numpties
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on September 25, 2017, 11:49:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:59:36 PM
Well more fool them for wearing it, purely personal choice as legally you don't have to. I could be wrong there but I doubt it very much... obviously if they are wearing against their "stance" then they are numpties

Surely you can imagine, in this day and age of trial by social media, that the issue is more than just being compromised by management or peers into wearing it. The aftermath and 'public' outcry would be much worse.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on September 26, 2017, 12:22:54 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 25, 2017, 10:53:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

I've never heard of people being pretty much obliged to wear lilies on TV shows of playing football. So not the same.

Anyone that wears a poppy on the BBC wears it cause they want too, if they don't want to they won't... so take that issue up with them

Not sure about that

The BBC seemingly gets away with this carry on, the seem to be able to ignore the concept of Fair Employment.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hereiam on September 26, 2017, 12:26:28 AM
If anyone was in any doubt about wat power britian has in the modern world well this just shows wat a hold they still have. They got a major sporting organization to agree on a change to their rules in 1 yr.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 07:40:42 AM
Quote from: Orior on September 25, 2017, 11:49:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:59:36 PM
Well more fool them for wearing it, purely personal choice as legally you don't have to. I could be wrong there but I doubt it very much... obviously if they are wearing against their "stance" then they are numpties

Surely you can imagine, in this day and age of trial by social media, that the issue is more than just being compromised by management or peers into wearing it. The aftermath and 'public' outcry would be much worse.

No, because the same people had the poppies on before social media became a thing, so again they've worn the poppies because they wanted to... if Roy Keane wears a poppy it's not because he feels pressure from social media or income from being on tv. He's wearing it cause a) he doesn't view it like most on here and b) as a charity to help with service men ....

You talk about social media, it's played its part in demonising the poppy also, if you take the reason initially for its introduction then it's not the worst charity, but over the recent years (30) the view has changed and it's role of representing the First World War to all wars... don't tar everyone's view on their reasons for wearing one

It seems to most here that the prods use it to run our noses in it, if you look to be offended you will...

Never worn one bought one or will, but never offended by someone who does either.. it's like getting offended by flags.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on September 26, 2017, 08:06:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 07:40:42 AM
Quote from: Orior on September 25, 2017, 11:49:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:59:36 PM
Well more fool them for wearing it, purely personal choice as legally you don't have to. I could be wrong there but I doubt it very much... obviously if they are wearing against their "stance" then they are numpties

Surely you can imagine, in this day and age of trial by social media, that the issue is more than just being compromised by management or peers into wearing it. The aftermath and 'public' outcry would be much worse.

No, because the same people had the poppies on before social media became a thing, so again they've worn the poppies because they wanted to... if Roy Keane wears a poppy it's not because he feels pressure from social media or income from being on tv. He's wearing it cause a) he doesn't view it like most on here and b) as a charity to help with service men ....

You talk about social media, it's played its part in demonising the poppy also, if you take the reason initially for its introduction then it's not the worst charity, but over the recent years (30) the view has changed and it's role of representing the First World War to all wars... don't tar everyone's view on their reasons for wearing one

It seems to most here that the prods use it to run our noses in it, if you look to be offended you will...

Never worn one bought one or will, but never offended by someone who does either.. it's like getting offended by flags.
I think this is unfair.  Most "prods" wear them as an act of remembrance.  As children, many wore and were introduced to the poppy during services of remembrance at church, school etc.  These are are solumn occasions where the idea is not to rub anyone's nose in anything. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on September 26, 2017, 08:20:26 AM
* Resisting the desire to rub your nose in it by teaching you how to spell*
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on September 26, 2017, 08:36:14 AM
Quote from: Orior on September 26, 2017, 08:20:26 AM
* Resisting the desire to rub your nose in it by teaching you how to spell*
Thanks for your restraint.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on September 26, 2017, 09:45:11 AM
Quote from: michaelg on September 26, 2017, 08:36:14 AM
Quote from: Orior on September 26, 2017, 08:20:26 AM
* Resisting the desire to rub your nose in it by teaching you how to spell*
Thanks for your restraint.

My pleasure!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on September 26, 2017, 12:36:25 PM
Quote from: michaelg on September 26, 2017, 08:06:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 07:40:42 AM
Quote from: Orior on September 25, 2017, 11:49:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:59:36 PM
Well more fool them for wearing it, purely personal choice as legally you don't have to. I could be wrong there but I doubt it very much... obviously if they are wearing against their "stance" then they are numpties

Surely you can imagine, in this day and age of trial by social media, that the issue is more than just being compromised by management or peers into wearing it. The aftermath and 'public' outcry would be much worse.

No, because the same people had the poppies on before social media became a thing, so again they've worn the poppies because they wanted to... if Roy Keane wears a poppy it's not because he feels pressure from social media or income from being on tv. He's wearing it cause a) he doesn't view it like most on here and b) as a charity to help with service men ....

You talk about social media, it's played its part in demonising the poppy also, if you take the reason initially for its introduction then it's not the worst charity, but over the recent years (30) the view has changed and it's role of representing the First World War to all wars... don't tar everyone's view on their reasons for wearing one

It seems to most here that the prods use it to run our noses in it, if you look to be offended you will...

Never worn one bought one or will, but never offended by someone who does either.. it's like getting offended by flags.
I think this is unfair.  Most "prods" wear them as an act of remembrance.  As children, many wore and were introduced to the poppy during services of remembrance at church, school etc.  These are are solumn occasions where the idea is not to rub anyone's nose in anything.
I understand that, but we live in a society where the poppy gives offence and is seen by many as a symbol of oppression. The problem in NI is that may Protestant/Unionists use the poppy in the same way a lot of Shinners use Irish. In a divided society people need to be careful as to when and how they display items language which offends. Unfortunately I think pigs will fly.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 12:45:02 PM
Thats a very good response Applesisapples.. I'm away for a lie down
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on September 26, 2017, 02:55:33 PM
never mind Poppy watch, you'll always have coat trailers.

How about premature ejaculations of Christmas.
The Bele Tele reports that the people of Newtownabbey (wierdos up there) area have launched their Christmas displays.
I think it is an insult to the Poppy to have Christmas before Remembrance Sunday.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on September 26, 2017, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 26, 2017, 02:55:33 PM
never mind Poppy watch, you'll always have coat trailers.

How about premature ejaculations of Christmas.
The Bele Tele reports that the people of Newtownabbey (wierdos up there) area have launched their Christmas displays.
I think it is an insult to the Poppy to have Christmas before Remembrance Sunday.

Anything that improves the look of Grimgrimley is worth it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on September 26, 2017, 05:55:47 PM
Wear it with pride...




BY ALAN ERWIN

Self-defence claims raised by a soldier who shot an innocent teenager at point-blank range in Derry 45 years ago have been stripped of all credibility, the High Court has heard.
Judges were told Daniel Hegarty (15) was a member of a prayer group who posed no threat and would have stopped in his tracks.
Relatives of the schoolboy are challenging a decision not to prosecute the member of the army unit who fired the fatal shots. Their lawyers claim the conclusion is perverse and irrational.
Reserving judgment, Mr Justice Treacy pledged to give a decision as soon as possible.
Daniel was unarmed when he was shot twice in the head during an army operation in the Creggan area of the city in July 1972. His cousin Christopher (16) also sustained a bullet wound to the head but survived.
The shootings occurred at the height of the Troubles as troops were deployed in Derry in an bid to clear so-called no-go areas.
In 2011 an inquest jury unanimously found Daniel posed no risk and had been shot without warning, prompting the coroner to refer the case back to the Public Prosecution Service.
But in March last year it was decided not to pursue charges against Soldier B, who fired the fatal rounds, on the basis of no reasonable prospect of a conviction.
According to the PPS, forensic experts were unable to state that ballistics evidence is inconsistent with Soldier B's account of the circumstances in which he fired.
Daniel's sister, Margaret Brady, is now seeking to judicially review the Director of Public Prosecutions over that decision.
Her senior counsel, Michael Mansfield QC, argued that expert evidence completely refutes assertions that the bullets were fired in self-defence.
Instead, he contended, scientific opinion backed the family's belief that it was an unlawful killing carried out at a range of less than 10 feet.
In a statement B claimed to have pulled the trigger on the machine gun while it was on the ground — an account Daniel's family allege was contrived to suggest fear of a non-existent threat.
Referring to expert evidence, Mr Mansfield submitted: "The pretence of self-defence basically falls away altogether... there's no credibility left."
Although he accepted a conviction could not be guaranteed, the barrister nevertheless claimed a jury may establish proof beyond reasonable doubt.
"There's credible evidence from the cousin, from the man in the house next door and from the ballistics," he told the court.
"There's no support for B's account coming from the rest of his platoon."
Despite recognising the tensions facing soldiers trying to perform a policing operation at the time, Mr Mansfield was withering in his assessment of Soldier B's actions.
"He saw young men at a time of night when he thought they shouldn't have been out and he shot them," the barrister said.
"He plainly has shot at people who would have stopped absolutely in their tracks if they had been warned. Two of them were members of the Rosary Crusaders — a prayer group.
"These were not remotely terrorists of any kind, they wouldn't have posed a threat and that's what makes the decision even more unacceptable and perverse."
Counsel for the Director Tony McGleenan QC stressed the high threshold required to rebut the soldier's claims, and to establish perversity in the decision-making process.
"Given self-defence is in play the question we are asking is whether or not the prosecution can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the actions of Soldier B were not taken in self-defence," he said.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 06:14:31 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 05:55:47 PM
Wear it with pride...




BY ALAN ERWIN

Self-defence claims raised by a soldier who shot an innocent teenager at point-blank range in Derry 45 years ago have been stripped of all credibility, the High Court has heard.
Judges were told Daniel Hegarty (15) was a member of a prayer group who posed no threat and would have stopped in his tracks.
Relatives of the schoolboy are challenging a decision not to prosecute the member of the army unit who fired the fatal shots. Their lawyers claim the conclusion is perverse and irrational.
Reserving judgment, Mr Justice Treacy pledged to give a decision as soon as possible.
Daniel was unarmed when he was shot twice in the head during an army operation in the Creggan area of the city in July 1972. His cousin Christopher (16) also sustained a bullet wound to the head but survived.
The shootings occurred at the height of the Troubles as troops were deployed in Derry in an bid to clear so-called no-go areas.
In 2011 an inquest jury unanimously found Daniel posed no risk and had been shot without warning, prompting the coroner to refer the case back to the Public Prosecution Service.
But in March last year it was decided not to pursue charges against Soldier B, who fired the fatal rounds, on the basis of no reasonable prospect of a conviction.
According to the PPS, forensic experts were unable to state that ballistics evidence is inconsistent with Soldier B's account of the circumstances in which he fired.
Daniel's sister, Margaret Brady, is now seeking to judicially review the Director of Public Prosecutions over that decision.
Her senior counsel, Michael Mansfield QC, argued that expert evidence completely refutes assertions that the bullets were fired in self-defence.
Instead, he contended, scientific opinion backed the family's belief that it was an unlawful killing carried out at a range of less than 10 feet.
In a statement B claimed to have pulled the trigger on the machine gun while it was on the ground — an account Daniel's family allege was contrived to suggest fear of a non-existent threat.
Referring to expert evidence, Mr Mansfield submitted: "The pretence of self-defence basically falls away altogether... there's no credibility left."
Although he accepted a conviction could not be guaranteed, the barrister nevertheless claimed a jury may establish proof beyond reasonable doubt.
"There's credible evidence from the cousin, from the man in the house next door and from the ballistics," he told the court.
"There's no support for B's account coming from the rest of his platoon."
Despite recognising the tensions facing soldiers trying to perform a policing operation at the time, Mr Mansfield was withering in his assessment of Soldier B's actions.
"He saw young men at a time of night when he thought they shouldn't have been out and he shot them," the barrister said.
"He plainly has shot at people who would have stopped absolutely in their tracks if they had been warned. Two of them were members of the Rosary Crusaders — a prayer group.
"These were not remotely terrorists of any kind, they wouldn't have posed a threat and that's what makes the decision even more unacceptable and perverse."
Counsel for the Director Tony McGleenan QC stressed the high threshold required to rebut the soldier's claims, and to establish perversity in the decision-making process.
"Given self-defence is in play the question we are asking is whether or not the prosecution can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the actions of Soldier B were not taken in self-defence," he said.

Jesus will we bring up IRA men that shot dead people leaving church? Or tying a man to his lorry and blowing him up?? Plenty kids killed in the name of freedom (which as you can see they are part of the British government in Stormont)

Stupid post
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on September 26, 2017, 06:23:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 06:14:31 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 05:55:47 PM
Wear it with pride...




BY ALAN ERWIN

Self-defence claims raised by a soldier who shot an innocent teenager at point-blank range in Derry 45 years ago have been stripped of all credibility, the High Court has heard.
Judges were told Daniel Hegarty (15) was a member of a prayer group who posed no threat and would have stopped in his tracks.
Relatives of the schoolboy are challenging a decision not to prosecute the member of the army unit who fired the fatal shots. Their lawyers claim the conclusion is perverse and irrational.
Reserving judgment, Mr Justice Treacy pledged to give a decision as soon as possible.
Daniel was unarmed when he was shot twice in the head during an army operation in the Creggan area of the city in July 1972. His cousin Christopher (16) also sustained a bullet wound to the head but survived.
The shootings occurred at the height of the Troubles as troops were deployed in Derry in an bid to clear so-called no-go areas.
In 2011 an inquest jury unanimously found Daniel posed no risk and had been shot without warning, prompting the coroner to refer the case back to the Public Prosecution Service.
But in March last year it was decided not to pursue charges against Soldier B, who fired the fatal rounds, on the basis of no reasonable prospect of a conviction.
According to the PPS, forensic experts were unable to state that ballistics evidence is inconsistent with Soldier B's account of the circumstances in which he fired.
Daniel's sister, Margaret Brady, is now seeking to judicially review the Director of Public Prosecutions over that decision.
Her senior counsel, Michael Mansfield QC, argued that expert evidence completely refutes assertions that the bullets were fired in self-defence.
Instead, he contended, scientific opinion backed the family's belief that it was an unlawful killing carried out at a range of less than 10 feet.
In a statement B claimed to have pulled the trigger on the machine gun while it was on the ground — an account Daniel's family allege was contrived to suggest fear of a non-existent threat.
Referring to expert evidence, Mr Mansfield submitted: "The pretence of self-defence basically falls away altogether... there's no credibility left."
Although he accepted a conviction could not be guaranteed, the barrister nevertheless claimed a jury may establish proof beyond reasonable doubt.
"There's credible evidence from the cousin, from the man in the house next door and from the ballistics," he told the court.
"There's no support for B's account coming from the rest of his platoon."
Despite recognising the tensions facing soldiers trying to perform a policing operation at the time, Mr Mansfield was withering in his assessment of Soldier B's actions.
"He saw young men at a time of night when he thought they shouldn't have been out and he shot them," the barrister said.
"He plainly has shot at people who would have stopped absolutely in their tracks if they had been warned. Two of them were members of the Rosary Crusaders — a prayer group.
"These were not remotely terrorists of any kind, they wouldn't have posed a threat and that's what makes the decision even more unacceptable and perverse."
Counsel for the Director Tony McGleenan QC stressed the high threshold required to rebut the soldier's claims, and to establish perversity in the decision-making process.
"Given self-defence is in play the question we are asking is whether or not the prosecution can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the actions of Soldier B were not taken in self-defence," he said.

Jesus will we bring up IRA men that shot dead people leaving church? Or tying a man to his lorry and blowing him up?? Plenty kids killed in the name of freedom (which as you can see they are part of the British government in Stormont)

Stupid post

Yeah, and they were actively pursued by the 'authorities', many being prosecuted and jailed for years ... this **** and many of his ilk weren't. And need I mention the few Brits who were done for murder - Ian Thain, Lee Clegg? Served derisory sentences, were still being paid by the MoD while in jail, and readmitted to the army on release... Wear it with pride
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 06:37:21 PM
Actively pursued and then given amnesty but sure you knew that.. not sure how the poppy charity itself is being blamed on the murders getting off with killing innocent people .. but if you look hard enough to be offended you will
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on September 26, 2017, 08:35:00 PM
Relative of mine lived in England for a few years. One housemate who was pro-Iraq/Afghanistan etc , asked why he didn't buy a Poppy one year. He took out a video of Bloody Sunday, and they watched it. Afterwards, he couldn't believe what he'd seen, and said he said he was disgusted at his own governments forces actions, and said he'd never buy a Poppy again.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on September 26, 2017, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

We don't, but unionists have, politicising it to commemorate the murdering scum of the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, B Specials, RUC, UDR and Brits here, and then taking umbrage when people, specifically those in the public eye, refuse to play ball, James McClean for instance, who are hounded and threatened. Those who died in WWI were cannon fodder for a bunch of inbred European royal families. The British are the biggest terrorists in history, f**k commemorating their terror...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on September 26, 2017, 09:25:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

We don't, but unionists have, politicising it to commemorate the murdering scum of the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, B Specials, RUC, UDR and Brits here, and then taking umbrage when people, specifically those in the public eye, refuse to play ball, James McClean for instance, who are hounded and threatened. Those who died in WWI were cannon fodder for a bunch of inbred European royal families. The British are the biggest terrorists in history, f**k commemorating their terror...
I would argue it has been some people's over reaction to the poppy that has politicised it.  This is why some of the super prods over-egg its significance and, as was suggested in a post above, rub people's noses in it.
James McClean also got more stick from people in Britain rather than from Unionists in NI. Unionists who follow football in NI weren't too keen on him before the poppy furore.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 09:51:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

We don't, but unionists have, politicising it to commemorate the murdering scum of the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, B Specials, RUC, UDR and Brits here, and then taking umbrage when people, specifically those in the public eye, refuse to play ball, James McClean for instance, who are hounded and threatened. Those who died in WWI were cannon fodder for a bunch of inbred European royal families. The British are the biggest terrorists in history, f**k commemorating their terror...

I get it you hate the Brits, they ain't liked in most places but the poppy is just a charity, it doesn't start wars or make decisions to send ones to their death.. what other people use it for is certainly not what it was intended for...

Cannon fodder or not they died a horrible death and those that "survived" it suffered many years before they died, World War Two stopped Hitler now I'm not sure who you'd prefer to have won that one, and pretty sure it wasn't the Royals of Europe called that one.. if someone in those years received some relief from Poppy contributions then brilliant.. as for the assholes here who stand at the and a UVF memorial on rememberance Sunday and give rememberance to sectarian murders then it's that person who you should be angry with..

I choose to ignore and get on with things, ignore it and it will go away, fuel it and it will continue to burn
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on September 26, 2017, 10:33:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 09:51:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

We don't, but unionists have, politicising it to commemorate the murdering scum of the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, B Specials, RUC, UDR and Brits here, and then taking umbrage when people, specifically those in the public eye, refuse to play ball, James McClean for instance, who are hounded and threatened. Those who died in WWI were cannon fodder for a bunch of inbred European royal families. The British are the biggest terrorists in history, f**k commemorating their terror...

I get it you hate the Brits, they ain't liked in most places but the poppy is just a charity, it doesn't start wars or make decisions to send ones to their death.. what other people use it for is certainly not what it was intended for...

Cannon fodder or not they died a horrible death and those that "survived" it suffered many years before they died, World War Two stopped Hitler now I'm not sure who you'd prefer to have won that one, and pretty sure it wasn't the Royals of Europe called that one.. if someone in those years received some relief from Poppy contributions then brilliant.. as for the assholes here who stand at the and a UVF memorial on rememberance Sunday and give rememberance to sectarian murders then it's that person who you should be angry with..

I choose to ignore and get on with things, ignore it and it will go away, fuel it and it will continue to burn

It is a symbol used to legitimise past war crimes and future and ongoing war crimes.

A gun never started a war or made a decision to kill anyone.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: omaghjoe on September 26, 2017, 10:41:00 PM
Quote from: tiempo on September 26, 2017, 10:33:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 09:51:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

We don't, but unionists have, politicising it to commemorate the murdering scum of the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, B Specials, RUC, UDR and Brits here, and then taking umbrage when people, specifically those in the public eye, refuse to play ball, James McClean for instance, who are hounded and threatened. Those who died in WWI were cannon fodder for a bunch of inbred European royal families. The British are the biggest terrorists in history, f**k commemorating their terror...

I get it you hate the Brits, they ain't liked in most places but the poppy is just a charity, it doesn't start wars or make decisions to send ones to their death.. what other people use it for is certainly not what it was intended for...

Cannon fodder or not they died a horrible death and those that "survived" it suffered many years before they died, World War Two stopped Hitler now I'm not sure who you'd prefer to have won that one, and pretty sure it wasn't the Royals of Europe called that one.. if someone in those years received some relief from Poppy contributions then brilliant.. as for the assholes here who stand at the and a UVF memorial on rememberance Sunday and give rememberance to sectarian murders then it's that person who you should be angry with..

I choose to ignore and get on with things, ignore it and it will go away, fuel it and it will continue to burn

It is a symbol used to legitimise past war crimes and future and ongoing war crimes.

A gun never started a war or made a decision to kill anyone.

Thats bollocks! its a symbol of remembrance for those who died.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 10:49:01 PM
Quote from: tiempo on September 26, 2017, 10:33:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 09:51:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

We don't, but unionists have, politicising it to commemorate the murdering scum of the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, B Specials, RUC, UDR and Brits here, and then taking umbrage when people, specifically those in the public eye, refuse to play ball, James McClean for instance, who are hounded and threatened. Those who died in WWI were cannon fodder for a bunch of inbred European royal families. The British are the biggest terrorists in history, f**k commemorating their terror...

I get it you hate the Brits, they ain't liked in most places but the poppy is just a charity, it doesn't start wars or make decisions to send ones to their death.. what other people use it for is certainly not what it was intended for...

Cannon fodder or not they died a horrible death and those that "survived" it suffered many years before they died, World War Two stopped Hitler now I'm not sure who you'd prefer to have won that one, and pretty sure it wasn't the Royals of Europe called that one.. if someone in those years received some relief from Poppy contributions then brilliant.. as for the assholes here who stand at the and a UVF memorial on rememberance Sunday and give rememberance to sectarian murders then it's that person who you should be angry with..

I choose to ignore and get on with things, ignore it and it will go away, fuel it and it will continue to burn

It is a symbol used to legitimise past war crimes and future and ongoing war crimes.

A gun never started a war or made a decision to kill anyone.

So before the poppy what desperate reason will you choose? The Poppy is a charity, nothing else. Other people feel the need to give it another false point is sad that's those who rub peoples noses in it or choose to be offended by it!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on September 26, 2017, 11:02:02 PM
Quote from: michaelg on September 26, 2017, 09:25:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

We don't, but unionists have, politicising it to commemorate the murdering scum of the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, B Specials, RUC, UDR and Brits here, and then taking umbrage when people, specifically those in the public eye, refuse to play ball, James McClean for instance, who are hounded and threatened. Those who died in WWI were cannon fodder for a bunch of inbred European royal families. The British are the biggest terrorists in history, f**k commemorating their terror...
I would argue it has been some people's over reaction to the poppy that has politicised it.  This is why some of the super prods over-egg its significance and, as was suggested in a post above, rub people's noses in it.
James McClean also got more stick from people in Britain rather than from Unionists in NI. Unionists who follow football in NI weren't too keen on him before the poppy furore.

Have you ever heard of Gregory Campbell? Just read the local papers and see the crucifixion of McClean the nearer and nearer we get to annual poppy fascism time...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on September 26, 2017, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 10:49:01 PM
So before the poppy what desperate reason will you choose? The Poppy is a charity, nothing else. Other people feel the need to give it another false point is sad that's those who rub peoples noses in it or choose to be offended by it!

So give your money to the charity. Don't shove it down people throats by having football stadiums do displays, or ensuring every TV presenter and guest are wearing a poppy.

Me? I'd rather donate to my church or Trocaire or Cancer Research.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on September 26, 2017, 11:12:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 09:51:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

We don't, but unionists have, politicising it to commemorate the murdering scum of the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, B Specials, RUC, UDR and Brits here, and then taking umbrage when people, specifically those in the public eye, refuse to play ball, James McClean for instance, who are hounded and threatened. Those who died in WWI were cannon fodder for a bunch of inbred European royal families. The British are the biggest terrorists in history, f**k commemorating their terror...

I get it you hate the Brits, they ain't liked in most places but the poppy is just a charity, it doesn't start wars or make decisions to send ones to their death.. what other people use it for is certainly not what it was intended for...

Cannon fodder or not they died a horrible death and those that "survived" it suffered many years before they died, World War Two stopped Hitler now I'm not sure who you'd prefer to have won that one, and pretty sure it wasn't the Royals of Europe called that one.. if someone in those years received some relief from Poppy contributions then brilliant.. as for the assholes here who stand at the and a UVF memorial on rememberance Sunday and give rememberance to sectarian murders then it's that person who you should be angry with..

I choose to ignore and get on with things, ignore it and it will go away, fuel it and it will continue to burn

The British Legion has done next to nothing to speak out over the abuse of 'commemoration'. The only example I can remember is over the disgusting circus at Ibrox a couple of years ago when they had Brits abseiling from the stands and parachuting in with red, white and blue smoke flares going, while other squaddies danced round the pitch much to the delight of the zombie hordes ... such undignified shenanigans had to be condemned by the British Legion, such was the furore in Scotland ... where's the other examples of speaking out? Torrens Knight and his mates appearing in court,other loyalist terror groups laying wreaths at Remembrance services, the commercial expolitation of the poppy (see the newspaper ads for vile, money-making versions ... I wonder how much goes to the RBL?). They say nothing cos they're making a fortune
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 11:32:42 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 26, 2017, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 10:49:01 PM
So before the poppy what desperate reason will you choose? The Poppy is a charity, nothing else. Other people feel the need to give it another false point is sad that's those who rub peoples noses in it or choose to be offended by it!

So give your money to the charity. Don't shove it down people throats by having football stadiums do displays, or ensuring every TV presenter and guest are wearing a poppy.

Me? I'd rather donate to my church or Trocaire or Cancer Research.

I do give to charity, again anyone on tv wearing does so cause they want, I doubt very much they actually think they are shoving it down your throat, they are asked and they say aye sure why not!

Raising 51 million a year for the welfare of groups that deal with current wars and families bereaved or maimed will never be enough

what's been said about the symbol being used wrongly is correct, but it's still a charity and big business too, like all the above charities you've mentioned..

There's a lot more to worry about than someone wearing a poppy.. easily offended
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tyroneman on September 26, 2017, 11:39:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

As I understand it..the poppy is now a symbol to commemorate and show support for British soldiers in all conflicts....not just WW1....thereby including folks like the UDR....

Does the money raised also not go towards 'lifelong support for the armed forces community'....therefore any soldiers (or members of the aforementioned UDR)  involved in skullduggery and mayhem here in the North also potentially benefit...?

Apart from all that I personally could care less about people wearing it...as long as it's not done to offend or belittle others, it's not over the top and in my face and as long as those who don't want to wear it are not vilified.....unfortunately it's rare all 3 of those happen each year.....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on September 26, 2017, 11:51:16 PM
Part of the issue with the Poppy is, it is pushed by the government and their propaganda wing in the BBC, so that ordinary people end up paying for the care of their former servicemen through the Poppy Appeal, in terms of help in their homes, disabled access etc. Meaning the government don't have to look after those who fought in their dirty wars.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on September 27, 2017, 12:27:30 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 26, 2017, 10:41:00 PM
Quote from: tiempo on September 26, 2017, 10:33:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 09:51:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on September 26, 2017, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides

We don't, but unionists have, politicising it to commemorate the murdering scum of the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, B Specials, RUC, UDR and Brits here, and then taking umbrage when people, specifically those in the public eye, refuse to play ball, James McClean for instance, who are hounded and threatened. Those who died in WWI were cannon fodder for a bunch of inbred European royal families. The British are the biggest terrorists in history, f**k commemorating their terror...

I get it you hate the Brits, they ain't liked in most places but the poppy is just a charity, it doesn't start wars or make decisions to send ones to their death.. what other people use it for is certainly not what it was intended for...

Cannon fodder or not they died a horrible death and those that "survived" it suffered many years before they died, World War Two stopped Hitler now I'm not sure who you'd prefer to have won that one, and pretty sure it wasn't the Royals of Europe called that one.. if someone in those years received some relief from Poppy contributions then brilliant.. as for the assholes here who stand at the and a UVF memorial on rememberance Sunday and give rememberance to sectarian murders then it's that person who you should be angry with..

I choose to ignore and get on with things, ignore it and it will go away, fuel it and it will continue to burn

It is a symbol used to legitimise past war crimes and future and ongoing war crimes.

A gun never started a war or made a decision to kill anyone.

Thats bollocks! its a symbol of remembrance for those who died.

It was (past tense) a symbol of rememberance for those who died in WWI. It is (present tense) a symbol of British soldiers past and present, living and dead. Including those who committed war crimes in Ireland and further afield.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2017, 07:22:46 AM
The Brits have to have a charity to look after all the lives destroyed by the war machine. It is not just a charity. It is not the fluffy bunnies. The system doesn't change.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2017, 07:47:52 AM
I'd say 51 million wouldn't be a tenth of what would be needed to help ... yes id imagine it will go towards all ex service men who maimed or suffering from mental issues that came from being in service..

It's the government that produce the need for wars and armies... I don't think the symbol of the poppy creates more wars or encourages people to join up, if anything it should have the opposite effect as it's a charity to help wounded men in all guises to rehabilitate  back into to normal life..

How some people here can focus on atrocities carried out by military forces on these shores while turn a blind eye to other atrocities by Irish armies (Provo, INLA) is very confusing... War is horrible and no matter what the justification l
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on September 27, 2017, 11:03:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides
Not withstanding the abuse of the poppy by unionists/loyalists here, across the water it does good work with ex soldiers. Nationalists can sometimes become so fixated on atrocities committed by the army here that they have a closed mind on this. At the end of the day the lads who join the army as ordinary soldiers very often do so to get a trade or just a decent living. Britain does not look after its soldiers well, nor does the US and so vetrans charities are necessary. Like so much of our relationship with all things British the Irish relationship with the British army is not straight forward. even the actions of soldiers in NI can be laid at the door of political ineptitude. As nationalists and republicans we need to exercise some common sense, how are you going to convince Unionists to join a UI if we treat the things that are important to them with the same disrespect they show all things irish. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2017, 11:46:20 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 27, 2017, 11:03:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides
Not withstanding the abuse of the poppy by unionists/loyalists here, across the water it does good work with ex soldiers. Nationalists can sometimes become so fixated on atrocities committed by the army here that they have a closed mind on this. At the end of the day the lads who join the army as ordinary soldiers very often do so to get a trade or just a decent living. Britain does not look after its soldiers well, nor does the US and so vetrans charities are necessary. Like so much of our relationship with all things British the Irish relationship with the British army is not straight forward. even the actions of soldiers in NI can be laid at the door of political ineptitude. As nationalists and republicans we need to exercise some common sense, how are you going to convince Unionists to join a UI if we treat the things that are important to them with the same disrespect they show all things irish. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Has your account been hacked? 2 in a row from you
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on September 27, 2017, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2017, 11:46:20 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 27, 2017, 11:03:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides
Not withstanding the abuse of the poppy by unionists/loyalists here, across the water it does good work with ex soldiers. Nationalists can sometimes become so fixated on atrocities committed by the army here that they have a closed mind on this. At the end of the day the lads who join the army as ordinary soldiers very often do so to get a trade or just a decent living. Britain does not look after its soldiers well, nor does the US and so vetrans charities are necessary. Like so much of our relationship with all things British the Irish relationship with the British army is not straight forward. even the actions of soldiers in NI can be laid at the door of political ineptitude. As nationalists and republicans we need to exercise some common sense, how are you going to convince Unionists to join a UI if we treat the things that are important to them with the same disrespect they show all things irish. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Has your account been hacked? 2 in a row from you
What? I'm fairly consistent. I wouldn't ever wear a poppy, but you can't demand respect but not give it, that's the preserve of the DUP.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2017, 02:10:42 PM
2 in a row that i agree with
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hectic on September 27, 2017, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 27, 2017, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2017, 11:46:20 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 27, 2017, 11:03:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides
Not withstanding the abuse of the poppy by unionists/loyalists here, across the water it does good work with ex soldiers. Nationalists can sometimes become so fixated on atrocities committed by the army here that they have a closed mind on this. At the end of the day the lads who join the army as ordinary soldiers very often do so to get a trade or just a decent living. Britain does not look after its soldiers well, nor does the US and so vetrans charities are necessary. Like so much of our relationship with all things British the Irish relationship with the British army is not straight forward. even the actions of soldiers in NI can be laid at the door of political ineptitude. As nationalists and republicans we need to exercise some common sense, how are you going to convince Unionists to join a UI if we treat the things that are important to them with the same disrespect they show all things irish. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Has your account been hacked? 2 in a row from you
What? I'm fairly consistent. I wouldn't ever wear a poppy, but you can't demand respect but not give it, that's the preserve of the DUP.

Main issue is not whether or not the money raised is put to good use but rather the way the propaganda machine has went into full swing since the most recent invasion of Iraq.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on September 27, 2017, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: Hectic on September 27, 2017, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 27, 2017, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2017, 11:46:20 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 27, 2017, 11:03:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
The poppy is a symbol of a martial society . The British war machine still sends young men to die in pointless wars. The ones who don't die are often maimed either physically or mentally. The Sun salutes their bravery but isn't there when the marriage breaks down or at the moment of suicide. Solemnity doesn't come into it.

Again it's a charity, set up to remember the first world... don't dress it up or give it any other attention...

Plenty countries sending young men and women out to wars, been doing it for thousands of years. I doubt you have any sympathy for the deaths maimed the marriage breakdowns or suicides
Not withstanding the abuse of the poppy by unionists/loyalists here, across the water it does good work with ex soldiers. Nationalists can sometimes become so fixated on atrocities committed by the army here that they have a closed mind on this. At the end of the day the lads who join the army as ordinary soldiers very often do so to get a trade or just a decent living. Britain does not look after its soldiers well, nor does the US and so vetrans charities are necessary. Like so much of our relationship with all things British the Irish relationship with the British army is not straight forward. even the actions of soldiers in NI can be laid at the door of political ineptitude. As nationalists and republicans we need to exercise some common sense, how are you going to convince Unionists to join a UI if we treat the things that are important to them with the same disrespect they show all things irish. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Has your account been hacked? 2 in a row from you
What? I'm fairly consistent. I wouldn't ever wear a poppy, but you can't demand respect but not give it, that's the preserve of the DUP.

Main issue is not whether or not the money raised is put to good use but rather the way the propaganda machine has went into full swing since the most recent invasion of Iraq.
different issue
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hectic on September 27, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Main issue in Britain that is. Generally it was observed or ignored then the whole thing was hijacked to pull public sentiment towards the military and with it the failing British foreign policy. More complex than just that but this has had the effect of pushing many of those who were indifferent to it against it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2017, 06:15:25 PM
Squaddies and prostitutes have poor life expectancy over in the UK
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tonto1888 on September 28, 2017, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 25, 2017, 10:53:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

I've never heard of people being pretty much obliged to wear lilies on TV shows of playing football. So not the same.

Anyone that wears a poppy on the BBC wears it cause they want too, if they don't want to they won't... so take that issue up with them

Not sure about that

Well more fool them for wearing it, purely personal choice as legally you don't have to. I could be wrong there but I doubt it very much... obviously if they are wearing against their "stance" then they are numpties

agree with that. Was it jon snow who coined the term poppy fascism?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2017, 09:12:14 AM
I've read more and more ex service men who are feeling that the Poppy Charity has become more corporate (as do all large charity companies) but thats more of a Britain thing rather than over here rub your noses in it (not all by the way)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on September 28, 2017, 09:19:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 25, 2017, 10:53:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

I've never heard of people being pretty much obliged to wear lilies on TV shows of playing football. So not the same.

Anyone that wears a poppy on the BBC wears it cause they want too, if they don't want to they won't... so take that issue up with them

Not sure about that

Well more fool them for wearing it, purely personal choice as legally you don't have to. I could be wrong there but I doubt it very much... obviously if they are wearing against their "stance" then they are numpties
I think that's unfair.  I know for a fact Thomas Niblock wasn't allowed in front of a camera by the BBC during these months because he refused to wear a poppy.  You could argue that it could hinder your career due to a reduced profile, and therefore see how others in the media are maybe forced in to wearing it "against their stance" as you say.  I wouldn't say people like that are numpties.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on September 28, 2017, 09:51:01 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 28, 2017, 09:19:06 AM
I think that's unfair.  I know for a fact Thomas Niblock wasn't allowed in front of a camera by the BBC during these months because he refused to wear a poppy.  You could argue that it could hinder your career due to a reduced profile, and therefore see how others in the media are maybe forced in to wearing it "against their stance" as you say.  I wouldn't say people like that are numpties.

Once again, with all the fair employment stuff, which could penalise you for wearing a GAA jersey, how are the BBC able to get away with this?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 28, 2017, 09:54:58 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 28, 2017, 09:51:01 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 28, 2017, 09:19:06 AM
I think that's unfair.  I know for a fact Thomas Niblock wasn't allowed in front of a camera by the BBC during these months because he refused to wear a poppy.  You could argue that it could hinder your career due to a reduced profile, and therefore see how others in the media are maybe forced in to wearing it "against their stance" as you say.  I wouldn't say people like that are numpties.

Once again, with all the fair employment stuff, which could penalise you for wearing a GAA jersey, how are the BBC able to get away with this?
Agree. This shit shouldn't be allowed. I have no issue with people wearing a poppy but nobody should be forced into wearing one because they play for an English soccer team or because they are working for the BBC.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on September 28, 2017, 10:05:42 AM
The Poppy appeal is being prioritised in the media because the government want it pushed. Why is one charity prioritised over countless others? Like I said before, it's counter productive for the government. The more it's pushed, the less work and money they have to do to support their troops. The appeal does that for them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2017, 11:35:43 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 28, 2017, 09:19:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 25, 2017, 10:53:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2017, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
Jesus! The paranoia is early again this year! People wear poppies people wear lillies who actually gives a f**k?

I've never heard of people being pretty much obliged to wear lilies on TV shows of playing football. So not the same.

Anyone that wears a poppy on the BBC wears it cause they want too, if they don't want to they won't... so take that issue up with them

Not sure about that

Well more fool them for wearing it, purely personal choice as legally you don't have to. I could be wrong there but I doubt it very much... obviously if they are wearing against their "stance" then they are numpties
I think that's unfair.  I know for a fact Thomas Niblock wasn't allowed in front of a camera by the BBC during these months because he refused to wear a poppy.  You could argue that it could hinder your career due to a reduced profile, and therefore see how others in the media are maybe forced in to wearing it "against their stance" as you say.  I wouldn't say people like that are numpties.

Well that's a sad set up and we've seen it in the past with various other presenters but unless they make a stand then they wont be heard and it wil continue...

I left school at 16 and started out as an apprentice in the Shipyard, we started in September so that late October right through November was spot the taig competition... I suppose there wasnt many off us so it wasnt difficult when we turned up every day without a Poppy on, workers rights werent exactly top of the management's views at the time I started but it changed dramitically over the years, but no matter how many times the box of poppies go round I never noticed any of the catholics either buying or wearing them, we still worked and progressed through the job, if something like the BBC are discriminating on presenters in this day and age then there must be good evidence to hold them accountable..

be good to hear from some employee or ex employee (think we had an employee/ex employee on here :o)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on September 28, 2017, 02:54:03 PM
The bbc don't have to discrimate against their presenters. The Poppy fascist public do that for them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on September 28, 2017, 05:31:02 PM
Doesn't Sidebottom present the Saturday Sports thing on 6Cos BBC gan  poppy??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on September 28, 2017, 06:26:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 28, 2017, 05:31:02 PM
Doesn't Sidebottom present the Saturday Sports thing on 6Cos BBC gán  poppy??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 31, 2017, 10:10:10 AM
So the Nation that is Northern Ireland will wear the poppy in the November internationals. So much for the IFA's inclusivity and cross community ethos. Shown for the lip service it is.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 10:44:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 28, 2017, 10:05:42 AM
The Poppy appeal is being prioritised in the media because the government want it pushed. Why is one charity prioritised over countless others? Like I said before, it's counter productive for the government. The more it's pushed, the less work and money they have to do to support their troops. The appeal does that for them.

It's common across Europe nowadays.
Promote anything that demands allegiance to the sate. Ban anything that might be seen as a higher power than the state, including conscientious  objection.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 10:54:46 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2017, 10:10:10 AM
So the Nation that is Northern Ireland will wear the poppy in the November internationals. So much for the IFA's inclusivity and cross community ethos. Shown for the lip service it is.

Don't watch the match!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2017, 11:27:33 AM
Don't play for or support any IFA soccer teams or affiliated clubs.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Estimator on October 31, 2017, 12:27:03 PM
On BBC breakfast this morning, they were interviewing a pig farmer about Brexit impacts. The producers made sure they'd pinned a crisp new poppy on to his overalls.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lurganblue on October 31, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2017, 10:10:10 AM
So the Nation that is Northern Ireland will wear the poppy in the November internationals. So much for the IFA's inclusivity and cross community ethos. Shown for the lip service it is.

Surely that would go down like a lead balloon for some of the squad? maybe not...

The whole footballers being forced to wear them thing.... surely there are loads of that wide spectrum of people who do not agree with what it stands for, or the actions of the state now or even in the past?  Surely others have gripes about the actions of British soldiers around the world?  Baffles me that the only person who seems to have expressed an opposing opinion is McClean
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
If you can look at from a charity thing, rather than whatever makes you rage thing then its a good cause..

I dislike the British empire, as much as the next guy but really, who gives a fcuk? A lot of gurnning over a poppy flower, dig in over November and end of October and you'll come out unscathed
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on October 31, 2017, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on October 31, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2017, 10:10:10 AM
So the Nation that is Northern Ireland will wear the poppy in the November internationals. So much for the IFA's inclusivity and cross community ethos. Shown for the lip service it is.

Surely that would go down like a lead balloon for some of the squad? maybe not...

The whole footballers being forced to wear them thing.... surely there are loads of that wide spectrum of people who do not agree with what it stands for, or the actions of the state now or even in the past?  Surely others have gripes about the actions of British soldiers around the world?  Baffles me that the only person who seems to have expressed an opposing opinion is McClean

He's the only one that has the balls to do it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on October 31, 2017, 01:54:03 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on October 31, 2017, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on October 31, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2017, 10:10:10 AM
So the Nation that is Northern Ireland will wear the poppy in the November internationals. So much for the IFA's inclusivity and cross community ethos. Shown for the lip service it is.

Surely that would go down like a lead balloon for some of the squad? maybe not...

The whole footballers being forced to wear them thing.... surely there are loads of that wide spectrum of people who do not agree with what it stands for, or the actions of the state now or even in the past?  Surely others have gripes about the actions of British soldiers around the world?  Baffles me that the only person who seems to have expressed an opposing opinion is McClean

He's the only one that has the balls to do it.
Think Hollywood, every f**ker in the place knows whats going on but due to money concerns the hide like rats in a sewer until it all kicks off and then they will come out of the woodwork and take a stance Mclean had had for years.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: PAULD123 on October 31, 2017, 02:02:34 PM
In general the poppy is meant to be a symbol of peace and sadness that war has caused death. they are sold to collect money to help people who have been bereaved by these conflicts.

All good so far except that the story doesn't end there. It is quite clear that it is now used as a symbol of vitriol. It is a marker not of sadness at all conflict death but a glorifying of victories and the glory of battle itself. If we say all conflicts are sad and regrettable then how can the poppy and poppy day be used to glorify the military effort? It has become a pseudo glorification not condemnation of war.

Also it has become a defacto symbol of everything it should be opposed to. To refuse to wear one means being treated with disgust by our media. When the fact that the poppy exists should be only justified in allowing freedom as a result of the bloodshed instead of allowing only the freedom to do exactly as the bullies tell you (kinda sounds like the very thing that was being fought).

In principle I think it is fair to say - You may be right, but I will only agree with you when you stop saying I am not allowed to choose anything other than agreeing with you.

As for closer to home. No English, Scots, or Welsh villages suffered British Soldiers harassing and abusing the residents let alone shooting them.  If it were truly a symbol of peace not selfish self-righteousness then the poppy sellers would all universally condemn the atrocities of the British Army in Northern Ireland and agree it is an inappropriate symbol for us. After all they don't insist on the Germans wearing them...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 31, 2017, 02:03:18 PM
What was the outcome of the 1916 rising commemoration on the Ireland shirt? Were the FAI fined for that?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 31, 2017, 02:12:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
If you can look at from a charity thing, rather than whatever makes you rage thing then its a good cause..

I dislike the British empire, as much as the next guy but really, who gives a fcuk? A lot of gurnning over a poppy flower, dig in over November and end of October and you'll come out unscathed

Charity maybe. But this charity helps the soldiers. It's not the actual government they were fighting for, that helps them. The people are actually paying to support soldiers who fought in wars that a lot of them were opposed to in the first place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 31, 2017, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on October 31, 2017, 02:02:34 PM
As for closer to home. No English, Scots, or Welsh villages suffered British Soldiers harassing and abusing the residents let alone shooting them.  If it were truly a symbol of peace not selfish self-righteousness then the poppy sellers would all universally condemn the atrocities of the British Army in Northern Ireland and agree it is an inappropriate symbol for us. After all they don't insist on the Germans wearing them...

What do you mean when you say "us"?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 31, 2017, 02:12:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
If you can look at from a charity thing, rather than whatever makes you rage thing then its a good cause..

I dislike the British empire, as much as the next guy but really, who gives a fcuk? A lot of gurnning over a poppy flower, dig in over November and end of October and you'll come out unscathed

Charity maybe. But this charity helps the soldiers. It's not the actual government they were fighting for, that helps them. The people are actually paying to support soldiers who fought in wars that a lot of them were opposed to in the first place.

It is what it is, lads that join an Army do so mainly as a job, Governments have them (Armies) in most countries in the world and the charity is there to help ex soldiers... The Brits have changed the meaning possibly but the charity is still just that, its not a reason for people joining the army, its not the reason for wars to continue, it is the result of these conflicts that the charity is needed....

Now its easy for Irish people to have a go at the Brits, we've been on the end of some horrendous murders/attacks/beatings over the years, but the media hijacking the poppy and the government using it for whatever reasons shouldnt be the focus here...

Attack the political parties that vote for these wars, sending men/women into wars that have no real bearing on them... peace keeping yes I get that but the rest is pointless until it becomes a major problem if the likes of 2 countries go at it! 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 31, 2017, 02:44:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
If you can look at from a charity thing, rather than whatever makes you rage thing then its a good cause..

I dislike the British empire, as much as the next guy but really, who gives a fcuk? A lot of gurnning over a poppy flower, dig in over November and end of October and you'll come out unscathed
I've said before in the context of GB I see no issue with the poppy or the cause. In fact given the lack of support for ex military in Britain I see the need. In NI it is divisive and my point only is that in the circumstances where the IFA bleat on about being cross community they take every opportunity to embrace Britishness, at least be honest and open about it. I won't watch the match for those reasons. This is also a forum and without gurning there is no point to it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on October 31, 2017, 02:44:51 PM
Quote from: stew on October 31, 2017, 01:54:03 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on October 31, 2017, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on October 31, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2017, 10:10:10 AM
So the Nation that is Northern Ireland will wear the poppy in the November internationals. So much for the IFA's inclusivity and cross community ethos. Shown for the lip service it is.

Surely that would go down like a lead balloon for some of the squad? maybe not...

The whole footballers being forced to wear them thing.... surely there are loads of that wide spectrum of people who do not agree with what it stands for, or the actions of the state now or even in the past?  Surely others have gripes about the actions of British soldiers around the world?  Baffles me that the only person who seems to have expressed an opposing opinion is McClean

He's the only one that has the balls to do it.
Think Hollywood, every f**ker in the place knows whats going on but due to money concerns the hide like rats in a sewer until it all kicks off and then they will come out of the woodwork and take a stance Mclean had had for years.

The country should be proud of James McClean that he stands up for what he believes in.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2017, 02:44:51 PM


The country should be proud of James McClean that he stands up for what he believes in.

Only if you agree with what he believes in.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: longballin on October 31, 2017, 03:05:17 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2017, 02:44:51 PM


The country should be proud of James McClean that he stands up for what he believes in.

Only if you agree with what he believes in.

Aye he believes in not celebrating an army that shot dead 14 innocent people in his city (among their many other atrocities).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:11:57 PM
Quote from: longballin on October 31, 2017, 03:05:17 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2017, 02:44:51 PM


The country should be proud of James McClean that he stands up for what he believes in.

Only if you agree with what he believes in.

Aye he believes in not celebrating an army that shot dead 14 innocent people in his city (among their many other atrocities).

Indeed
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: maddog on October 31, 2017, 03:12:32 PM
Quote from: longballin on October 31, 2017, 03:05:17 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2017, 02:44:51 PM


The country should be proud of James McClean that he stands up for what he believes in.

Only if you agree with what he believes in.

Aye he believes in not celebrating an army that shot dead 14 innocent people in his city (among their many other atrocities).

the cheek of him
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:16:14 PM
I suppose my point is that the only people who will be proud of him are those in agreement. I'm sure it comes as no surprise that despite the truth in the comments above there are many in the Country who think he should wear one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on October 31, 2017, 03:20:46 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:16:14 PM
I suppose my point is that the only people who will be proud of him are those in agreement. I'm sure it comes as no surprise that despite the truth in the comments above there are many in the Country who think he should wear one.

West brits you mean?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:22:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2017, 03:20:46 PM

West brits you mean?

No, I'm referring to irish people. I assume that's the Country you were talking about.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on October 31, 2017, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:22:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 31, 2017, 03:20:46 PM

West brits you mean?

No, I'm referring to irish people. I assume that's the Country you were talking about.

I think they've already revoked their claim to be irish if that's their viewpoint.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tonto1888 on October 31, 2017, 03:36:32 PM
This time of year again.
I disagree with the poppy being splashed all over everything. If people on TV want to wear one fair enough, if not then they shouldn't have to wear one. Same as the person on the street. Was it Jon Snow who coined the term poppy fascism?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 03:49:40 PM
yeah, I think that most people in Britain wear it and see it for what it is, regardless of what the media and government try to shove down our throats... NI different problem altogether
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2017, 04:14:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 03:49:40 PM
yeah, I think that most people in Britain wear it and see it for what it is, regardless of what the media and government try to shove down our throats... NI different problem altogether

Do most people in Britain wear one? I doubt it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: yellowcard on October 31, 2017, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on October 31, 2017, 02:02:34 PM
In general the poppy is meant to be a symbol of peace and sadness that war has caused death. they are sold to collect money to help people who have been bereaved by these conflicts.

All good so far except that the story doesn't end there. It is quite clear that it is now used as a symbol of vitriol. It is a marker not of sadness at all conflict death but a glorifying of victories and the glory of battle itself. If we say all conflicts are sad and regrettable then how can the poppy and poppy day be used to glorify the military effort? It has become a pseudo glorification not condemnation of war.

Also it has become a defacto symbol of everything it should be opposed to. To refuse to wear one means being treated with disgust by our media. When the fact that the poppy exists should be only justified in allowing freedom as a result of the bloodshed instead of allowing only the freedom to do exactly as the bullies tell you (kinda sounds like the very thing that was being fought).

In principle I think it is fair to say - You may be right, but I will only agree with you when you stop saying I am not allowed to choose anything other than agreeing with you.

As for closer to home. No English, Scots, or Welsh villages suffered British Soldiers harassing and abusing the residents let alone shooting them.  If it were truly a symbol of peace not selfish self-righteousness then the poppy sellers would all universally condemn the atrocities of the British Army in Northern Ireland and agree it is an inappropriate symbol for us. After all they don't insist on the Germans wearing them...

Excellent post.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Arthur_Friend on October 31, 2017, 04:55:52 PM
Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: longballin on October 31, 2017, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 31, 2017, 04:14:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 03:49:40 PM
yeah, I think that most people in Britain wear it and see it for what it is, regardless of what the media and government try to shove down our throats... NI different problem altogether

Do most people in Britain wear one? I doubt it.

I noticed that on Match of the Day when McClean got booed for not wearing a poppy and very few in the crowd wore poppies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 31, 2017, 05:07:21 PM
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=shop&q=poppy%20items

Keep it f**king classy and pay tribute to the glorious British war dead (and sundry murdering Black and Tan, Auxilliary, B Special, UDR, RUC and Para scum) by flaunting your Dried Flower Poppy Pods Business Cards, Poppy Remembrance Bell Jar, Cast Iron Poppy Bird Feeders and Poppy Remembrance Fairy.

At the going down of the sun, we will make money out of them  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 31, 2017, 06:05:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 31, 2017, 02:44:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
If you can look at from a charity thing, rather than whatever makes you rage thing then its a good cause..

I dislike the British empire, as much as the next guy but really, who gives a fcuk? A lot of gurnning over a poppy flower, dig in over November and end of October and you'll come out unscathed
I've said before in the context of GB I see no issue with the poppy or the cause. In fact given the lack of support for ex military in Britain I see the need. In NI it is divisive and my point only is that in the circumstances where the IFA bleat on about being cross community they take every opportunity to embrace Britishness, at least be honest and open about it. I won't watch the match for those reasons. This is also a forum and without gurning there is no point to it.

Yes that's my point. If soldiers fight for a government, that government should look after them, should they not? But the Poppy Appeal removes the governments responsibility for doing that. The appeal might do a good jobs helping ex soldiers, but why isn't their government doing it?

That's why it is pushed in the media so much. The more it's pushed, the less the government need to do.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 31, 2017, 06:21:47 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on October 31, 2017, 03:16:14 PM
I suppose my point is that the only people who will be proud of him are those in agreement. I'm sure it comes as no surprise that despite the truth in the comments above there are many in the Country who think he should wear one.

James McClean should not have been put into that position in the first place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2017, 06:52:46 PM
They never mention the trenches of Belgium
When they stopped fighting and they were one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgtzZ-mOQo
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on October 31, 2017, 06:53:14 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 31, 2017, 04:55:52 PM
Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

Well they kind of helped the world out between 1939-45, if they had caved we would be speaking Russian or German by this point, magnificently the Irish government decided to remain neutral and accept whatever fate came to them depending on who won, thankfully the allies won in large part to the yanks getting involved with armies and their air force, navy etc after Pearl Harbor.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Therealdonald on October 31, 2017, 06:54:43 PM
Quote from: stew on October 31, 2017, 06:53:14 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 31, 2017, 04:55:52 PM
Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

Well they kind of helped the world out between 1939-45, if they had caved we would be speaking Russian or German by this point, magnificently the Irish government decided to remain neutral and accept whatever fate came to them depending on who won, thankfully the allies won in large part to the yanks getting involved with armies and their air force, navy etc after Pearl Harbor.

Speaking Russian or German wouldn't have been the worst outcome in my opinion from WWII....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 31, 2017, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: stew on October 31, 2017, 06:53:14 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 31, 2017, 04:55:52 PM
Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

Well they kind of helped the world out between 1939-45, if they had caved we would be speaking Russian or German by this point, magnificently the Irish government decided to remain neutral and accept whatever fate came to them depending on who won, thankfully the allies won in large part to the yanks getting involved with armies and their air force, navy etc after Pearl Harbor.

Ironic though that the Allies won, and Ireland still ended up being ruled by the Germans. So, neutrality was the best thing. Saved a lot of agro.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2017, 07:05:26 PM
Quote from: stew on October 31, 2017, 06:53:14 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 31, 2017, 04:55:52 PM
Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

Well they kind of helped the world out between 1939-45, if they had caved we would be speaking Russian or German by this point, magnificently the Irish government decided to remain neutral and accept whatever fate came to them depending on who won, thankfully the allies won in large part to the yanks getting involved with armies and their air force, navy etc after Pearl Harbor.
The Soviets beat the Nazis. Just 27 million dead to do it. The war was over after Stalingrad. D-day couldn't have happened before Stalingrad.

The Brits didn't do much in the big scheme of things.
They went into the war to defend Polish freedom and when the war was over they abandoned Poland.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 31, 2017, 07:10:42 PM
Speaking Russian? Russia was on the allied side. Eight out of 10 Germans killed in WWII were killed by Russians on the Eastern Front.

They nearly did cave in. There was a large pro-German element in the Brit Establishment who wanted to do a deal with Hitler. There is ample evidence to suggest Edward Windsor Saxe-Coburg Gotha, the abdicated king, was a traitor who provided to the Nazis information about the state of French readiness in the area facing the Ardennes after a tour there prior to the invasion of France. The Germans changed their invasion plans as a result of that information. Churchill actually wanted him arrested and tried for treason. There is also evidence to suggest he had a deal with the Nazis that would have put him on the throne again had the pro-German element of the Brit Establishment got its way.

In the immediate aftermath of the German surrender Buckingham Palace sent Anthony Blunt on a mission to find and seize German documents that proved Edward's treachery, which he succeeded in doing. These were then destroyed by the Brit royal family. Buckingham Palace subsequently became aware of Blunt's own spying for Russia a few years later, but still retained his services despite his treachery, no doubt because he could expose their shenanigans.

We shouldn't forget, the Germans and Italians weren't the only fascists. The Brits behaved as utter fascists in their empire

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 31, 2017, 07:39:07 PM
WW2 was won at the battle of Kursk in 43; the Germans were finished after that! Yes Ww2 could be classed as a war for freedom but WW1 was based on a ridiculous treaty pack; nobody freedom was saved during the Zulu war; the Boer war; (before poppies); the crushing of rebellion in India;the communist confrontations in Korea; Vietnam; whos freedom was saved in Iraq; the allies killed more than the previous resident and left the region a mess, Allied countries tend to intervene in oil rich countries but stood by and done nothing in Rwanda and Somalia!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 09:39:25 PM
Poppy's was from the First World War because it involved so many countries and was classed as world war! The second, regardless of the stupid stuff said here about the royals and whatever, was about fighting the Nazis... anyone who thinks that had Hitler won the war would have changed his views on anything is a daft twat!

Hitler had a plan, Ireland wasn't part of it, neutrality would have counted for shit!

Any war the Brits were involved in after that was purely to back up treaties built with other countries!

There were hundreds of wars the Brits were involved in before the first and they were all based on their empire building ...

For most Brits it's about the world wars with the poppy,  over here it's about the fecking UDR RUC and The UVF! The old UVF that's what's gets up peoples goat..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 31, 2017, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 09:39:25 PM
Poppy's was from the First World War because it involved so many countries and was classed as world war! The second, regardless of the stupid stuff said here about the royals and whatever, was about fighting the Nazis... anyone who thinks that had Hitler won the war would have changed his views on anything is a daft twat!

Hitler had a plan, Ireland wasn't part of it, neutrality would have counted for shit!

Any war the Brits were involved in after that was purely to back up treaties built with other countries!

There were hundreds of wars the Brits were involved in before the first and they were all based on their empire building ...

For most Brits it's about the world wars with the poppy,  over here it's about the fecking UDR RUC and The UVF! The old UVF that's what's gets up peoples goat..

Malaya? Aden? Trying to hold on to their 'empire' and in the process slaughtering thousands. And they'd have murdered thousands more in the rest of their 'empire' if the Yanks had have reverted to Isolationism after WWII
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on October 31, 2017, 10:23:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2017, 07:05:26 PM
Quote from: stew on October 31, 2017, 06:53:14 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 31, 2017, 04:55:52 PM
Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

Well they kind of helped the world out between 1939-45, if they had caved we would be speaking Russian or German by this point, magnificently the Irish government decided to remain neutral and accept whatever fate came to them depending on who won, thankfully the allies won in large part to the yanks getting involved with armies and their air force, navy etc after Pearl Harbor.
The Soviets beat the Nazis. Just 27 million dead to do it. The war was over after Stalingrad. D-day couldn't have happened before Stalingrad.

The Brits didn't do much in the big scheme of things.
They went into the war to defend Polish freedom and when the war was over they abandoned Poland.
A lot of the Poles were happy to have Uncle Joe and the rest of the Moscow boys call the shots.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on October 31, 2017, 10:26:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 09:39:25 PM
Poppy's was from the First World War because it involved so many countries and was classed as world war! The second, regardless of the stupid stuff said here about the royals and whatever, was about fighting the Nazis... anyone who thinks that had Hitler won the war would have changed his views on anything is a daft twat!

Hitler had a plan, Ireland wasn't part of it, neutrality would have counted for shit!

Any war the Brits were involved in after that was purely to back up treaties built with other countries!

There were hundreds of wars the Brits were involved in before the first and they were all based on their empire building ...

For most Brits it's about the world wars with the poppy,  over here it's about the fecking UDR RUC and The UVF! The old UVF that's what's gets up peoples goat..
Sean Russell and the other pro Nazis in the I.R.A. would be the first Adolph would have put up against a wall
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 10:36:07 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2017, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 09:39:25 PM
Poppy's was from the First World War because it involved so many countries and was classed as world war! The second, regardless of the stupid stuff said here about the royals and whatever, was about fighting the Nazis... anyone who thinks that had Hitler won the war would have changed his views on anything is a daft twat!

Hitler had a plan, Ireland wasn't part of it, neutrality would have counted for shit!

Any war the Brits were involved in after that was purely to back up treaties built with other countries!

There were hundreds of wars the Brits were involved in before the first and they were all based on their empire building ...

For most Brits it's about the world wars with the poppy,  over here it's about the fecking UDR RUC and The UVF! The old UVF that's what's gets up peoples goat..

Malaya? Aden? Trying to hold on to their 'empire' and in the process slaughtering thousands. And they'd have murdered thousands more in the rest of their 'empire' if the Yanks had have reverted to Isolationism after WWII

You read my post? I addressed the empire pillaging and after that how the countries descended into civil war, big like here post 16

My point stand regardless of your blind hatred of all things British! The poppy is a charity based on the World wars, it's used for ex service men and like all charities its big business, huge sums coming in and people are well paid to run these things... what we have is (for 2 months of the year) a charity making hay as the sun shines, I've never looked at it as being anything other than a charity, same way as I look at the Easter Lily as being a rememberance for the Easter rising and the Shamrock as a flower to remember St Patrick's day.. I'll not take offence st people wearing it or not wearing it.. there are a thousand and one things in life more important
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 31, 2017, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 10:36:07 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2017, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 09:39:25 PM
Poppy's was from the First World War because it involved so many countries and was classed as world war! The second, regardless of the stupid stuff said here about the royals and whatever, was about fighting the Nazis... anyone who thinks that had Hitler won the war would have changed his views on anything is a daft twat!

Hitler had a plan, Ireland wasn't part of it, neutrality would have counted for shit!

Any war the Brits were involved in after that was purely to back up treaties built with other countries!

There were hundreds of wars the Brits were involved in before the first and they were all based on their empire building ...

For most Brits it's about the world wars with the poppy,  over here it's about the fecking UDR RUC and The UVF! The old UVF that's what's gets up peoples goat..

Malaya? Aden? Trying to hold on to their 'empire' and in the process slaughtering thousands. And they'd have murdered thousands more in the rest of their 'empire' if the Yanks had have reverted to Isolationism after WWII

You read my post? I addressed the empire pillaging and after that how the countries descended into civil war, big like here post 16

My point stand regardless of your blind hatred of all things British! The poppy is a charity based on the World wars, it's used for ex service men and like all charities its big business, huge sums coming in and people are well paid to run these things... what we have is (for 2 months of the year) a charity making hay as the sun shines, I've never looked at it as being anything other than a charity, same way as I look at the Easter Lily as being a rememberance for the Easter rising and the Shamrock as a flower to remember St Patrick's day.. I'll not take offence st people wearing it or not wearing it.. there are a thousand and one things in life more important

Bit of a stretch (even for you) to take my criticisms of Britain's shameful imperialism as blind hatred of all things British. If I had a blind hatred of all things British I wouldn't have lived in England for three years or be friends with many English, Welsh and Scottish people. IMO, if the Brit government wants people to fight and die for it, then the Brit government should fund ALL the care for physically or mentally scarred veterans
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 31, 2017, 11:50:27 PM
I look forward to the same arguments this time every year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 11:53:22 PM
Shit you lived in England! And to think that's the criteria for loving the place!! Oh I've english welsh and Scottish friends! Big f**king deal, who doesn't Ffs! But the crap about the poppy you waffle  on about  is just that, waffle!

It's a charity, they give the money to ex service men, the government do provide their servicemen with a pension, you'd know that having lived in England for three years 😂😂.. there is medical care for service men also, and after they are servicemen, it's called the NHS... it's completely stretched but hey that's probably the Poppy's fault!

There are thousand of countries with armies that are in some war of sorts, bleat about them while you are at it..

The country has always had a naval army base! That's history that's standing that's just what's been, getting involved in other countries problems isn't just a British thing, the French, Spanish, Dutch, Belgium's, Germans! Have done it for centuries, doesn't make it right but hey ho I have heard you give off about the other countries , and let's not get started on the yanks!

Address the government not the charity
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 01, 2017, 12:01:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 11:53:22 PM
Shit you lived in England! And to think that's the criteria for loving the place!! Oh I've english welsh and Scottish friends! Big f**king deal, who doesn't Ffs! But the crap about the poppy you waffle  on about  is just that, waffle!

It's a charity, they give the money to ex service men, the government do provide their servicemen with a pension, you'd know that having lived in England for three years 😂😂.. there is medical care for service men also, and after they are servicemen, it's called the NHS... it's completely stretched but hey that's probably the Poppy's fault!

There are thousand of countries with armies that are in some war of sorts, bleat about them while you are at it..

The country has always had a naval army base! That's history that's standing that's just what's been, getting involved in other countries problems isn't just a British thing, the French, Spanish, Dutch, Belgium's, Germans! Have done it for centuries, doesn't make it right but hey ho I have heard you give off about the other countries , and let's not get started on the yanks!

Address the government not the charity

Do they also support the terrorists responsible for the massacres in Derry and Ballymurphy? Or the various other murders carried out by the British Army here? Because I imagine that a lot of people on this forum wouldn't mind giving them something, but it wouldn't be the hard earned coins out of their own pocket.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 01, 2017, 12:11:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 10:36:07 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2017, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 09:39:25 PM
Poppy's was from the First World War because it involved so many countries and was classed as world war! The second, regardless of the stupid stuff said here about the royals and whatever, was about fighting the Nazis... anyone who thinks that had Hitler won the war would have changed his views on anything is a daft twat!

Hitler had a plan, Ireland wasn't part of it, neutrality would have counted for shit!

Any war the Brits were involved in after that was purely to back up treaties built with other countries!

There were hundreds of wars the Brits were involved in before the first and they were all based on their empire building ...

For most Brits it's about the world wars with the poppy,  over here it's about the fecking UDR RUC and The UVF! The old UVF that's what's gets up peoples goat..

Malaya? Aden? Trying to hold on to their 'empire' and in the process slaughtering thousands. And they'd have murdered thousands more in the rest of their 'empire' if the Yanks had have reverted to Isolationism after WWII

You read my post? I addressed the empire pillaging and after that how the countries descended into civil war, big like here post 16

My point stand regardless of your blind hatred of all things British! The poppy is a charity based on the World wars, it's used for ex service men and like all charities its big business, huge sums coming in and people are well paid to run these things... what we have is (for 2 months of the year) a charity making hay as the sun shines, I've never looked at it as being anything other than a charity, same way as I look at the Easter Lily as being a rememberance for the Easter rising and the Shamrock as a flower to remember St Patrick's day.. I'll not take offence st people wearing it or not wearing it.. there are a thousand and one things in life more important

If WW2 was the last war Britain fought in, it'd bE different. lets say the youngest ex serviceman was 18 in 1945, making him roughly 90. There's probably a few dozen 90 year old ex servicemen alive today. Let's say in 10 years, all are gone. Meaning the charity has fulfilled it's duty. No more ex soldiers to care for. But there is always a war, isn't there?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2017, 07:56:37 AM
Jesus lad get over it, the charity is for ex service men regardless! They join an army that in most cases it's the only job they'll get ! It's the government that send them to war! How stupid are you, do you honestly think the lads want to be put in danger and risk their lives every day?

You issues are with the government sending them to Belfast Derry and any other part of NI where they carried out their dirty acts! Had the government not sent them we'd not be discussing it.  Stop blaming the poppy
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2017, 08:01:56 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 01, 2017, 12:01:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 11:53:22 PM
Shit you lived in England! And to think that's the criteria for loving the place!! Oh I've english welsh and Scottish friends! Big f**king deal, who doesn't Ffs! But the crap about the poppy you waffle  on about  is just that, waffle!

It's a charity, they give the money to ex service men, the government do provide their servicemen with a pension, you'd know that having lived in England for three years 😂😂.. there is medical care for service men also, and after they are servicemen, it's called the NHS... it's completely stretched but hey that's probably the Poppy's fault!

There are thousand of countries with armies that are in some war of sorts, bleat about them while you are at it..

The country has always had a naval army base! That's history that's standing that's just what's been, getting involved in other countries problems isn't just a British thing, the French, Spanish, Dutch, Belgium's, Germans! Have done it for centuries, doesn't make it right but hey ho I have heard you give off about the other countries , and let's not get started on the yanks!

Address the government not the charity

Do they also support the terrorists responsible for the massacres in Derry and Ballymurphy? Or the various other murders carried out by the British Army here? Because I imagine that a lot of people on this forum wouldn't mind giving them something, but it wouldn't be the hard earned coins out of their own pocket.

Do who support the terrorist? The poppy organisation?

I'd say the Army lost a lot of service men here during the war that's what happens... who'd be giving them money here from a nationalist side? And you'll hardly be giving them something else from behind the keyboard, they haven't been here for years so you've missed your chance, though you could join Isis and get a go at them if you're up for it
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 01, 2017, 08:30:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2017, 08:01:56 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 01, 2017, 12:01:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 11:53:22 PM
Shit you lived in England! And to think that's the criteria for loving the place!! Oh I've english welsh and Scottish friends! Big f**king deal, who doesn't Ffs! But the crap about the poppy you waffle  on about  is just that, waffle!

It's a charity, they give the money to ex service men, the government do provide their servicemen with a pension, you'd know that having lived in England for three years 😂😂.. there is medical care for service men also, and after they are servicemen, it's called the NHS... it's completely stretched but hey that's probably the Poppy's fault!

There are thousand of countries with armies that are in some war of sorts, bleat about them while you are at it..

The country has always had a naval army base! That's history that's standing that's just what's been, getting involved in other countries problems isn't just a British thing, the French, Spanish, Dutch, Belgium's, Germans! Have done it for centuries, doesn't make it right but hey ho I have heard you give off about the other countries , and let's not get started on the yanks!

Address the government not the charity

Do they also support the terrorists responsible for the massacres in Derry and Ballymurphy? Or the various other murders carried out by the British Army here? Because I imagine that a lot of people on this forum wouldn't mind giving them something, but it wouldn't be the hard earned coins out of their own pocket.

Do who support the terrorist? The poppy organisation?

I'd say the Army lost a lot of service men here during the war that's what happens... who'd be giving them money here from a nationalist side? And you'll hardly be giving them something else from behind the keyboard, they haven't been here for years so you've missed your chance, though you could join Isis and get a go at them if you're up for it

Who said anything about imitating their dirty actions? And yes, do the "poppy organisation" financially support those who carried out despicable acts in Ireland?

It's understandable that people will criticise poppies and poppy fascism, I don't think it's too hard to comprehend why people are opposed to the idea of the poppy being shoved down our throats.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 01, 2017, 08:52:46 AM
This thread is getting lost in an argument over the behaviour of the British through the centuries. In essence this thread is meant to be about the poppy and its misuse as a political symbol, which it isn't intended to be. Governments tend not to take care of returning soldiers, the USA is as bad as Britain in this regard. As Irish people we have a natural antipathy to the British Army and for good reasons. However we should not be blinded to the purpose of the poppy across the water based on our own experiences and the total misuse of it in NI as a symbol of domination. People should be free to wear or not as they choose but when broadcasters, football teams etc make the wearing of it a necessity in this divided society they are taking sides IFA take note, BBC take note and UTV take note.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2017, 08:58:30 AM
correct post, applesisapples
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 01, 2017, 03:18:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2017, 07:56:37 AM
Jesus lad get over it, the charity is for ex service men regardless! They join an army that in most cases it's the only job they'll get ! It's the government that send them to war! How stupid are you, do you honestly think the lads want to be put in danger and risk their lives every day?

You issues are with the government sending them to Belfast Derry and any other part of NI where they carried out their dirty acts! Had the government not sent them we'd not be discussing it.  Stop blaming the poppy

Well if you join an army, the odds are high that you'll see battle.

It's not only what the British army did in Ireland that's the problem. Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't affect my everyday life, but it's still disgusting what they're doing over there. Just because the army is no longer on our streets, doesn't make it right. THe fact is, they're on somebody's streets.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 01, 2017, 03:21:36 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 01, 2017, 08:52:46 AM
This thread is getting lost in an argument over the behaviour of the British through the centuries. In essence this thread is meant to be about the poppy and its misuse as a political symbol, which it isn't intended to be. Governments tend not to take care of returning soldiers, the USA is as bad as Britain in this regard. As Irish people we have a natural antipathy to the British Army and for good reasons. However we should not be blinded to the purpose of the poppy across the water based on our own experiences and the total misuse of it in NI as a symbol of domination. People should be free to wear or not as they choose but when broadcasters, football teams etc make the wearing of it a necessity in this divided society they are taking sides IFA take note, BBC take note and UTV take note.

If they haven't taken note by now, it's unlikely they ever will.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2017, 03:37:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 01, 2017, 03:18:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2017, 07:56:37 AM
Jesus lad get over it, the charity is for ex service men regardless! They join an army that in most cases it's the only job they'll get ! It's the government that send them to war! How stupid are you, do you honestly think the lads want to be put in danger and risk their lives every day?

You issues are with the government sending them to Belfast Derry and any other part of NI where they carried out their dirty acts! Had the government not sent them we'd not be discussing it.  Stop blaming the poppy

Well if you join an army, the odds are high that you'll see battle.

It's not only what the British army did in Ireland that's the problem. Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't affect my everyday life, but it's still disgusting what they're doing over there. Just because the army is no longer on our streets, doesn't make it right. THe fact is, they're on somebody's streets.

Yes and no one here will disagree with you on that point! they should look after their own in their own country, peac keeping is fine as the Irish have done that for years... we wont be going to war and thats the way it should be... These wars have lingered on since the empire started and wont stop anytime soon
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 01, 2017, 08:36:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2017, 08:01:56 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 01, 2017, 12:01:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2017, 11:53:22 PM
Shit you lived in England! And to think that's the criteria for loving the place!! Oh I've english welsh and Scottish friends! Big f**king deal, who doesn't Ffs! But the crap about the poppy you waffle  on about  is just that, waffle!

It's a charity, they give the money to ex service men, the government do provide their servicemen with a pension, you'd know that having lived in England for three years 😂😂.. there is medical care for service men also, and after they are servicemen, it's called the NHS... it's completely stretched but hey that's probably the Poppy's fault!

There are thousand of countries with armies that are in some war of sorts, bleat about them while you are at it..

The country has always had a naval army base! That's history that's standing that's just what's been, getting involved in other countries problems isn't just a British thing, the French, Spanish, Dutch, Belgium's, Germans! Have done it for centuries, doesn't make it right but hey ho I have heard you give off about the other countries , and let's not get started on the yanks!

Address the government not the charity

Do they also support the terrorists responsible for the massacres in Derry and Ballymurphy? Or the various other murders carried out by the British Army here? Because I imagine that a lot of people on this forum wouldn't mind giving them something, but it wouldn't be the hard earned coins out of their own pocket.

Do who support the terrorist? The poppy organisation?

I'd say the Army lost a lot of service men here during the war that's what happens... who'd be giving them money here from a nationalist side? And you'll hardly be giving them something else from behind the keyboard, they haven't been here for years so you've missed your chance, though you could join Isis and get a go at them if you're up for it

;D f**king clown
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 02, 2017, 10:11:22 AM
Interesting point made on Stephen Nolan's show yesterday that how could Nolan host an impartial debate on the wearing of the poppy...while wearing one?  Akin to trying to hold an impartial debate on the OO while wearing a sash and bowler hat!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/caller-asks-how-can-bbcs-nolan-be-independent-wearing-poppy-during-poppy-debate-36281106.html
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 02, 2017, 10:15:32 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 02, 2017, 10:11:22 AM
Interesting point made on Stephen Nolan's show yesterday that how could Nolan host an impartial debate on the wearing of the poppy...while wearing one?  Akin to trying to hold an impartial debate on the OO while wearing a sash and bowler hat!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/caller-asks-how-can-bbcs-nolan-be-independent-wearing-poppy-during-poppy-debate-36281106.html

I suppose by the same token how could he be impartial if he *didn't* wear one? There doesn't seem to be an 'I don't care' option.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 02, 2017, 10:19:45 AM
I'd imagine this will go down well in rabid Brexit UK

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/poppy-wear-why-not-remembrance-wars-soldiers-veterans-poppies-moeen-ali-a8031746.html?amp
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2017, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 02, 2017, 10:15:32 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 02, 2017, 10:11:22 AM
Interesting point made on Stephen Nolan's show yesterday that how could Nolan host an impartial debate on the wearing of the poppy...while wearing one?  Akin to trying to hold an impartial debate on the OO while wearing a sash and bowler hat!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/caller-asks-how-can-bbcs-nolan-be-independent-wearing-poppy-during-poppy-debate-36281106.html

I suppose by the same token how could he be impartial if he *didn't* wear one? There doesn't seem to be an 'I don't care' option.
The Poppy is a polarising symbol. There is no way to wear it without offending people, unless it could be made available speaking Irish. Even that would be offensive. ..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2017, 11:45:48 AM
A green poppy?

I dont know anyone of my friends who get offended by seeing a poppy on someone... they might get annoyed if they know someone that was 'forced' to wear one due to working on TV but again that person wears it cause he wants to, BBC would be breaking employments rights on staff if they were forcing the issue
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on November 02, 2017, 01:00:59 PM
Guy at work today wearing 3 on his shirt, like cufflinks only on his buttons. Outstanding.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2017, 01:14:48 PM
Quote from: tiempo on November 02, 2017, 01:00:59 PM
Guy at work today wearing 3 on his shirt, like cufflinks only on his buttons. Outstanding.

Ask him how much he gives to the charity? I don't mind the poppy what annoys me more is the feckers digging out the old ones every year!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 02, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Roy Keane,our Assistant Manager,on last night's Champions League highlights show,maintaining an annual tradition for him
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 02, 2017, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 02, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Roy Keane,our Assistant Manager,on last night's Champions League highlights show,maintaining an annual tradition for him

What was that? HAving a dig at Liverpool?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2017, 03:39:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 02, 2017, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 02, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Roy Keane,our Assistant Manager,on last night's Champions League highlights show,maintaining an annual tradition for him

What was that? HAving a dig at Liverpool?

No, shaving.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 02, 2017, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2017, 11:45:48 AM
A green poppy?

Does anyone where the purple poppy? 

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tonto1888 on November 02, 2017, 05:10:28 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 02, 2017, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2017, 11:45:48 AM
A green poppy?

Does anyone where the purple poppy? 

/Jim.

whats that? I wore a white one in the past
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 02, 2017, 08:04:09 PM
It's to remember all the animals killed in war.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Aaron Boone on November 02, 2017, 10:16:09 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 02, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Roy Keane,our Assistant Manager,on last night's Champions League highlights show,maintaining an annual tradition for him
If he didn't wear it, it would be bigger news. Go with the flow.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 02, 2017, 11:00:27 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 02, 2017, 10:16:09 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 02, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Roy Keane,our Assistant Manager,on last night's Champions League highlights show,maintaining an annual tradition for him
If he didn't wear it, it would be bigger news. Go with the flow.

You know what else goes with the flow? A dead fish.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 02, 2017, 11:20:26 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 02, 2017, 10:16:09 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 02, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Roy Keane,our Assistant Manager,on last night's Champions League highlights show,maintaining an annual tradition for him
If he didn't wear it, it would be bigger news. Go with the flow.

Bullshit, Glen Hoddle didnt wear pme on TV the other day and nothing was said.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: longballin on November 02, 2017, 11:32:37 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 02, 2017, 10:16:09 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 02, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Roy Keane,our Assistant Manager,on last night's Champions League highlights show,maintaining an annual tradition for him
If he didn't wear it, it would be bigger news. Go with the flow.

or show courage like James McClean...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 04, 2017, 12:20:27 PM
Saw a guy in New York wearing one. It was one of those woollen jobs not your common version that Tony Fearon buys from his neighbour every year
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: longballin on November 04, 2017, 02:18:45 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 04, 2017, 12:20:27 PM
Saw a guy in New York wearing one. It was one of those woollen jobs not your common version that Tony Fearon buys from his neighbour every year

:D  lest we forget
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 12:08:19 AM
I see McClean was booed today by the Poppy fascists. Ironically, in any of the crowd shots that were shown, very few were actually wearing poppies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Targetman on November 05, 2017, 09:20:32 AM
He seems to get stick at every match in England he plays, Mc Clean's a sound lad and won't let them pricks annoy him, stick one in the net Saturday night James!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 05, 2017, 12:13:13 PM
Exactly wobbler.I would never wear a poppy or an Easter Lily for that matter.But my elderly neighbour comes to my door every year.Throughout the year she takes my post,keeps an eye on the place when I'm not there etc.Out of respect and good neighbourliness,and the fact that generally I do u nderstand  those of a Unionist tradition take the view that Catholics and Protestants both fought and died together and this is non political (I don't agree with this view),I make a small donation,take a poppy,and place it at the bottom of the bin pronto,thus not sacrificing any principle,but simply showing respect to a good neighbour.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 12:22:38 PM
I think James McCleans stance is brave and honourable personally. Takes some balls knowing the flak he will and does receive.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 05, 2017, 12:47:29 PM
Mcclean should lie down like a good croppie
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 05, 2017, 12:13:13 PM
Exactly wobbler.I would never wear a poppy or an Easter Lily for that matter.But my elderly neighbour comes to my door every year.Throughout the year she takes my post,keeps an eye on the place when I'm not there etc.Out of respect and good neighbourliness,and the fact that generally I do u nderstand  those of a Unionist tradition take the view that Catholics and Protestants both fought and died together and this is non political (I don't agree with this view),I make a small donation,take a poppy,and place it at the bottom of the bin pronto,thus not sacrificing any principle,but simply showing respect to a good neighbour.

Could Arlene's crocodile comments be applied here? Good neighbours or not, I'd politely decline on first visit to prevent him/her returning.

Yes Catholics and Protestants fought (ultimately they were fighting for two different reasons), but unless the Poppy seller has been living under a rock for years, they should know the divisiveness the Poppy causes, and maybe shouldn't call at a known catholic household in the first place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: Targetman on November 05, 2017, 09:20:32 AM
He seems to get stick at every match in England he plays, Mc Clean's a sound lad and won't let them pricks annoy him, stick one in the net Saturday night James!!

He nearly scored yesterday. Would have been a sweet moment.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: An Watcher on November 05, 2017, 02:37:36 PM
We're the folks of the parachute regiment respectful when they murdered people from the same city that James grew up in.  Catch yourself on.  There are enough foreigners out there to criticise McClean never mind those from his own country.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 05, 2017, 02:37:36 PM
We're the folks of the parachute regiment respectful when they murdered people from the same city that James grew up in.  Catch yourself on.  There are enough foreigners out there to criticise McClean never mind those from his own country.

There are approximately 280 countries that James could work in were he would not be subject to British tradition, culture and expectation.

But he's chosen Britain.

Chosen.

Choice.

He should show some respect.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?

He respectfully declined to stand for the anthem and towards the flag. Bowed his head, and stood still. He could have behaved a lot worse.

Why was GSTQ played at a club match anyway? I'd say there was 6 or 7 different nationalities on that West Brom team so it was totally unnecessary.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 03:03:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?

He respectfully declined to stand for the anthem and towards the flag. Bowed his head, and stood still. He could have behaved a lot worse.

Why was GSTQ played at a club match anyway? I'd say there was 6 or 7 different nationalities on that West Brom team so it was totally unnecessary.
He acted like an attention seeking child.  Funny how none of the other players from the different nationalities thought it necessary to turn away, bow head etc.  Agree that there was no need to play the anthems at.  Doesn't mean you sould act like a dick though.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on November 05, 2017, 03:03:49 PM
How has he been disrespectful wobbler?

For a city that has produced its fair share of sportsmen and woman I can't think of too many to be prouder of.  Some of things he has done for the people and the community here are amazing.  Has never forgotten where he has came from and gives a hell of a lot back.  All done away from the glare of media and attention.  But sure have pot shots at him for his stance on the poppy.  Anybody with a half a brain can understand his views and actions given where hes from.  I dont think it's something he should be derided for, the opposite in fact.  If thats not your opinion  fair enough, but there are many more attributes to his character that deserve attention, and I dont see those same countrymen of his that criticise him ever mentioning that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 03:24:10 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 05, 2017, 03:03:49 PM
How has he been disrespectful wobbler?

For a city that has produced its fair share of sportsmen and woman I can't think of too many to be prouder of.  Some of things he has done for the people and the community here are amazing.  Has never forgotten where he has came from and gives a hell of a lot back.  All done away from the glare of media and attention.  But sure have pot shots at him for his stance on the poppy.  Anybody with a half a brain can understand his views and actions given where hes from.  I dont think it's something he should be derided for, the opposite in fact.  If thats not your opinion  fair enough, but there are many more attributes to his character that deserve attention, and I dont see those same countrymen of his that criticise him ever mentioning that.

I don't ignore it.

But with McClean and his strong opinions, I always find myself returning to a base point that he has, through his own choice, spent his entire adult life working in England.

There are plenty of ways to maintain your cultural identity when living in another country. His is the militant sort. And as mentioned a few posts back, if a foreigner in this country behaved in a similar way he would be similarly reviled. Surely anyone with "half a brain" can work this out?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on November 05, 2017, 04:02:23 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 03:24:10 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 05, 2017, 03:03:49 PM
How has he been disrespectful wobbler?

For a city that has produced its fair share of sportsmen and woman I can't think of too many to be prouder of.  Some of things he has done for the people and the community here are amazing.  Has never forgotten where he has came from and gives a hell of a lot back.  All done away from the glare of media and attention.  But sure have pot shots at him for his stance on the poppy.  Anybody with a half a brain can understand his views and actions given where hes from.  I dont think it's something he should be derided for, the opposite in fact.  If thats not your opinion  fair enough, but there are many more attributes to his character that deserve attention, and I dont see those same countrymen of his that criticise him ever mentioning that.

I don't ignore it.

But with McClean and his strong opinions, I always find myself returning to a base point that he has, through his own choice, spent his entire adult life working in England.

There are plenty of ways to maintain your cultural identity when living in another country. His is the militant sort. And as mentioned a few posts back, if a foreigner in this country behaved in a similar way he would be similarly reviled. Surely anyone with "half a brain" can work this out?
Seriously?  You think his actions are of the "militant sort"?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 05, 2017, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 03:24:10 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 05, 2017, 03:03:49 PM
How has he been disrespectful wobbler?

For a city that has produced its fair share of sportsmen and woman I can't think of too many to be prouder of.  Some of things he has done for the people and the community here are amazing.  Has never forgotten where he has came from and gives a hell of a lot back.  All done away from the glare of media and attention.  But sure have pot shots at him for his stance on the poppy.  Anybody with a half a brain can understand his views and actions given where hes from.  I dont think it's something he should be derided for, the opposite in fact.  If thats not your opinion  fair enough, but there are many more attributes to his character that deserve attention, and I dont see those same countrymen of his that criticise him ever mentioning that.

I don't ignore it.

But with McClean and his strong opinions, I always find myself returning to a base point that he has, through his own choice, spent his entire adult life working in England.

There are plenty of ways to maintain your cultural identity when living in another country. His is the militant sort. And as mentioned a few posts back, if a foreigner in this country behaved in a similar way he would be similarly reviled. Surely anyone with "half a brain" can work this out?

Using your earlier example, if Ireland had butchered countless innocent South Africans, I'm sure we would understand if a South African rugby player living in Ireland didn't want to commemorate those responsible for the butchering.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tonto1888 on November 05, 2017, 06:20:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?

He respectfully declined to stand for the anthem and towards the flag. Bowed his head, and stood still. He could have behaved a lot worse.

Why was GSTQ played at a club match anyway? I'd say there was 6 or 7 different nationalities on that West Brom team so it was totally unnecessary.

exactly. McClean has behaved with dignity even when faced with extreme provocation. I'm surprised at some of the comments directed at him on here
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 05, 2017, 06:26:11 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 03:03:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?

He respectfully declined to stand for the anthem and towards the flag. Bowed his head, and stood still. He could have behaved a lot worse.

Why was GSTQ played at a club match anyway? I'd say there was 6 or 7 different nationalities on that West Brom team so it was totally unnecessary.
He acted like an attention seeking child.  Funny how none of the other players from the different nationalities thought it necessary to turn away, bow head etc.  Agree that there was no need to play the anthems at.  Doesn't mean you sould act like a dick though.

Good lad James, stick to your principles. No more will the Croppie lie down
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 05, 2017, 06:46:22 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 03:03:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?

He respectfully declined to stand for the anthem and towards the flag. Bowed his head, and stood still. He could have behaved a lot worse.

Why was GSTQ played at a club match anyway? I'd say there was 6 or 7 different nationalities on that West Brom team so it was totally unnecessary.
He acted like an attention seeking child.  Funny how none of the other players from the different nationalities thought it necessary to turn away, bow head etc.  Agree that there was no need to play the anthems at.  Doesn't mean you sould act like a dick though.

I think it 8s refreshing to see a player with principles. I recall a lad Davy Tweed, DUP man. Was a hypocrite standing soldiers song in Dublin then retreats back up north and returns to be a bigot blocking old women going to church.  No calibre or principle to that man, no courage of conviction when in a hostile environment. Give me Mcclean any day, breath of fresh air.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 06:55:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2017, 06:46:22 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 03:03:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?

He respectfully declined to stand for the anthem and towards the flag. Bowed his head, and stood still. He could have behaved a lot worse.

Why was GSTQ played at a club match anyway? I'd say there was 6 or 7 different nationalities on that West Brom team so it was totally unnecessary.
He acted like an attention seeking child.  Funny how none of the other players from the different nationalities thought it necessary to turn away, bow head etc.  Agree that there was no need to play the anthems at.  Doesn't mean you sould act like a dick though.

I think it 8s refreshing to see a player with principles. I recall a lad Davy Tweed, DUP man. Was a hypocrite standing soldiers song in Dublin then retreats back up north and returns to be a bigot blocking old women going to church.  No calibre or principle to that man, no courage of conviction when in a hostile environment. Give me Mcclean any day, breath of fresh air.
There would be a, justifiable, outcry if an Ulster Rugby player did something similar with the Soldiers Song in Dublin.  Similarly, if Kyle Lafferty was asked for  his  favourite song, and he replied with The Sash or Derry's Walls in a similar way to McClean's love of The Broad Black Brimmer, there would also be a big hooha made too.  It's double standards for me.  He may do a good lot of work for charity and what have you, but he also does a lot of daft things too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: yellowcard on November 05, 2017, 07:04:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 03:24:10 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 05, 2017, 03:03:49 PM
How has he been disrespectful wobbler?

For a city that has produced its fair share of sportsmen and woman I can't think of too many to be prouder of.  Some of things he has done for the people and the community here are amazing.  Has never forgotten where he has came from and gives a hell of a lot back.  All done away from the glare of media and attention.  But sure have pot shots at him for his stance on the poppy.  Anybody with a half a brain can understand his views and actions given where hes from.  I dont think it's something he should be derided for, the opposite in fact.  If thats not your opinion  fair enough, but there are many more attributes to his character that deserve attention, and I dont see those same countrymen of his that criticise him ever mentioning that.

I don't ignore it.

But with McClean and his strong opinions, I always find myself returning to a base point that he has, through his own choice, spent his entire adult life working in England.

There are plenty of ways to maintain your cultural identity when living in another country. His is the militant sort. And as mentioned a few posts back, if a foreigner in this country behaved in a similar way he would be similarly reviled. Surely anyone with "half a brain" can work this out?

Sweet Jesus, if refusing to wear a poppy is considered militant then I give up. Maybe he should just sheepishly abandon his principles. Instead he has not forgot his roots when the easy option would be to go with the flow. Have heard how McClean regularly supports local charities with big cash donations. He might be a bit daft and pig headed but I admire his free thinking in a profession where players excel in blandness.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 07:28:45 PM
For those who criticise McClean, I think you need to look at the root problem. And that is the decision by the FA and the clubs to agree to have poppies on shirts. There is absolutely no reason for it. Wars are linked to politics, and therefore should not be anywhere near a sporting arena.

Even the wreaths on the pitch, minute silence etc has no place. It is just typical British attitude imposing their thinking on the rest of the world. And let's face it, there is a hell of a lot of nationalities playing football in England, and it is totally unacceptable to subject these players to such situations

Let supporters wear a Poppy if they want. Or managers, even players if they choose in their training gear/matchday suit but on the shirts is just wrong.

James McClean should not even be noticed not wearing a poppy, but the Poppy fascists have ensured that he is. Year after year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 05, 2017, 07:46:51 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 03:03:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?

He respectfully declined to stand for the anthem and towards the flag. Bowed his head, and stood still. He could have behaved a lot worse.

Why was GSTQ played at a club match anyway? I'd say there was 6 or 7 different nationalities on that West Brom team so it was totally unnecessary.
He acted like an attention seeking child.  Funny how none of the other players from the different nationalities thought it necessary to turn away, bow head etc.  Agree that there was no need to play the anthems at.  Doesn't mean you sould act like a dick though.
Bullshit, given that he is from Derry his stance is both brave and understandable. If he was from any other city on this Island, I would say wear it quietly and respect the country you are working in. It is rich for you as an OWC supporter to be criticising him when the Unionist population has made the poppy a symbol of British domination in NI. But I don't expect you to understand.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2017, 08:25:03 PM
Didn't realise that Derry had more murders by the Army than Belfast
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 08:51:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2017, 07:46:51 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 03:03:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?

He respectfully declined to stand for the anthem and towards the flag. Bowed his head, and stood still. He could have behaved a lot worse.

Why was GSTQ played at a club match anyway? I'd say there was 6 or 7 different nationalities on that West Brom team so it was totally unnecessary.
He acted like an attention seeking child.  Funny how none of the other players from the different nationalities thought it necessary to turn away, bow head etc.  Agree that there was no need to play the anthems at.  Doesn't mean you sould act like a dick though.
Bullshit, given that he is from Derry his stance is both brave and understandable. If he was from any other city on this Island, I would say wear it quietly and respect the country you are working in. It is rich for you as an OWC supporter to be criticising him when the Unionist population has made the poppy a symbol of British domination in NI. But I don't expect you to understand.
Keep up. The post above is not referring to his refusal to wear a poppy. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: longballin on November 05, 2017, 10:26:41 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: longballin on November 05, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

You believe he should wear the poppy?

No. But I do believe he should have enough respect for the country in which he is earning an (extraordinary) income, to do so quietly.

He has stated very respectfully why he doesnt wear a poppy... when did he stick two fingers up or slag them off. James has great courage and dignity.
Was he brave and acting respectfully when he took his stand against GSTQ in the USA when playing a friendly for WBA?

He stood. He should have sat on the floor. You sound like  a right lickspittle...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: StGallsGAA on November 05, 2017, 10:36:14 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
I'd expect that if a South African rugby player came to Ireland and both outwardly stuck two fingers up to Irish traditions and ways, then spent his days antagonising people about it online, that he would be universally reviled and there would be a campaign to send him packing.

But according to this thread McLean is a sound lad, has courage, and is surrounded by fascists.

Rampant hypocrisy. Rampant, unabashed hypocrisy. The inevitable outcome of people investing themselves in symbolism.

The only thing rampant on here is the knob on your forehead smacking off the keyboard. Do you fellate Tory MPs in your spare time??   Why should McClean give a silent tribute to an army that butchered his innocent  neighbours in cold blood?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 05, 2017, 11:23:33 PM
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/james-mcclean-hits-out-at-bbc-match-of-the-day-coverage-and-blasts-cowards-in-crowd-at-west-brom-game-36291108.html
No doubt to some on here he brings it on himself. Pathetic.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 06, 2017, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 05, 2017, 02:37:36 PM
We're the folks of the parachute regiment respectful when they murdered people from the same city that James grew up in.  Catch yourself on.  There are enough foreigners out there to criticise McClean never mind those from his own country.

There are approximately 280 countries that James could work in were he would not be subject to British tradition, culture and expectation.

But he’s chosen Britain.

Chosen.

Choice.

He should show some respect.
Idiotic post. It’s Jamie Bryson-esque complete with grammatical error.

McClean is earning a living in the exact same jurisdiction within which he was born and raised. So whether he plays for Institute or West Brom, he still pays his taxes to the same taxman... and let’s not pretend the poppy-wankfest that has manifested itself into football over the last decade doesn’t extend to these shores either. Most Irish league teams have some form of “Remembrance”; so using your logic all players from a Nationalist background must “conform” to this pathetic, political propoganda.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 06, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
He should have taken a knee.

Imagine the riots that would have caused.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Therealdonald on November 06, 2017, 05:59:12 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2017, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 05, 2017, 02:37:36 PM
We're the folks of the parachute regiment respectful when they murdered people from the same city that James grew up in.  Catch yourself on.  There are enough foreigners out there to criticise McClean never mind those from his own country.

There are approximately 280 countries that James could work in were he would not be subject to British tradition, culture and expectation.

But he's chosen Britain.

Chosen.

Choice.

He should show some respect.
Idiotic post. It's Jamie Bryson-esque complete with grammatical error.

McClean is earning a living in the exact same jurisdiction within which he was born and raised. So whether he plays for Institute or West Brom, he still pays his taxes to the same taxman... and let's not pretend the poppy-wankfest that has manifested itself into football over the last decade doesn't extend to these shores either. Most Irish league teams have some form of "Remembrance"; so using your logic all players from a Nationalist background must "conform" to this pathetic, political propoganda.

General Lee tut tut...idiotic post. Surely if the principle of ''choice'' is so important to you, then you understand that McClean has the choice to wear or not wear the poppy? To show apathy with the same soldiers who systematically and with government support (and subsequent cover-up) killed innocent fellow Derry people? Then again General Lee I would surmise that you are one of these Kapaernick should stand for the anthem types, even though the US Army fights for Kapaernick to have the right to protest.....NERD
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 06, 2017, 06:16:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 06, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
He should have taken a knee.

Imagine the riots that would have caused.
Now that would be worth watching.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: StGallsGAA on November 06, 2017, 07:43:22 PM
There's some right knob-jocks on this thread who equate refusal to wear a poppy with disrespecting everyone in England and the fallen in WW1.   No doubt they support Trumps views on the NFL players too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2017, 07:51:05 PM
When McClean started playing in England; players didnt have a poppy on their jersey
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 06, 2017, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: StGallsGAA on November 06, 2017, 07:43:22 PM
There's some right knob-jocks on this thread who equate refusal to wear a poppy with disrespecting everyone in England and the fallen in WW1.   No doubt they support Trumps views on the NFL players too.

NFL players are actually the agitators. If they were being told to wear KKK badges I'd support their stance in taking a knee but the US national anthem isn't divisive. They're trying to make it divisive.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 06, 2017, 10:36:28 PM
done war veterans in the UK refuse to wear the poppy too due to how it's been manipulated. I assume they too should kids off to another country?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 07, 2017, 12:00:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2017, 07:51:05 PM
When McClean started playing in England; players didnt have a poppy on their jersey
And back then clubs had a lot more English/British playing with them. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 07, 2017, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 05, 2017, 03:24:10 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 05, 2017, 03:03:49 PM
How has he been disrespectful wobbler?

For a city that has produced its fair share of sportsmen and woman I can't think of too many to be prouder of.  Some of things he has done for the people and the community here are amazing.  Has never forgotten where he has came from and gives a hell of a lot back.  All done away from the glare of media and attention.  But sure have pot shots at him for his stance on the poppy.  Anybody with a half a brain can understand his views and actions given where hes from.  I dont think it's something he should be derided for, the opposite in fact.  If thats not your opinion  fair enough, but there are many more attributes to his character that deserve attention, and I dont see those same countrymen of his that criticise him ever mentioning that.

I don't ignore it.

But with McClean and his strong opinions, I always find myself returning to a base point that he has, through his own choice, spent his entire adult life working in England.

There are plenty of ways to maintain your cultural identity when living in another country. His is the militant sort. And as mentioned a few posts back, if a foreigner in this country behaved in a similar way he would be similarly reviled. Surely anyone with "half a brain" can work this out?


So he listens to the Wolfe Tones and refuses to wear the [pppy and that makes him militant? Catch yourself on man dear!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tonto1888 on November 07, 2017, 11:34:42 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 06, 2017, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: StGallsGAA on November 06, 2017, 07:43:22 PM
There's some right knob-jocks on this thread who equate refusal to wear a poppy with disrespecting everyone in England and the fallen in WW1.   No doubt they support Trumps views on the NFL players too.

NFL players are actually the agitators. If they were being told to wear KKK badges I'd support their stance in taking a knee but the US national anthem isn't divisive. They're trying to make it divisive.

the protest isn't actually against the national anthem, or the flag though
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2017, 01:43:02 PM
There is the third verse of the US national anthem, which is arguably racist:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/its-time-for-a-new-national-anthem-or-none-at-all_us_59ced0c8e4b0f3c468060eb2 (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/its-time-for-a-new-national-anthem-or-none-at-all_us_59ced0c8e4b0f3c468060eb2)

"No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave" ― "The Star-Spangled Banner," third verse

Francis Scott Key [author of the anthem], a slave-owner, was at best a white supremacist that saw black bodies as valuable tools. He was the district attorney for Washington, where he defended slavery against abolitionists in the case U.S. v. Reuben Crandall. He once famously said that black folks were "...a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community." At worst, he was someone who gloated in the deaths of black bodies. According to Associate Professor Jason Johnson of Morgan State University, "Essentially, Francis Scott Key was happy to see former slaves, who had joined the British as part of their Colonial Marines, getting slaughtered and killed as they attempted to take Baltimore...he's essentially saying to these terrible, ungrateful, black people, this is the consequence of standing up against the United States."
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 07, 2017, 03:03:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 07, 2017, 12:00:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2017, 07:51:05 PM
When McClean started playing in England; players didnt have a poppy on their jersey
And back then clubs had a lot more English/British playing with them.

Doesn't matter if there was no non-English players. A football shirt is no place for a Poppy. It has nothing to do with sport whatsoever.  That is the problem, not James McClean.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 07, 2017, 03:39:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 07, 2017, 03:03:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 07, 2017, 12:00:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2017, 07:51:05 PM
When McClean started playing in England; players didnt have a poppy on their jersey
And back then clubs had a lot more English/British playing with them.

Doesn't matter if there was no non-English players. A football shirt is no place for a Poppy. It has nothing to do with sport whatsoever.  That is the problem, not James McClean.
Of course it matters.
The point being made is that there is almost zero tradition to support the call to  (compulsory) wear the poppy on the football shirt. The assumption being peddled is that there is a tradition of footballers wearing the poppy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/01/wearing-poppy-meaningful-voluntary-footballers (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/01/wearing-poppy-meaningful-voluntary-footballers)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 09, 2017, 01:12:24 AM
Was in Manchester yesterday,At legoland there was a huge poppy image on the glass facade just above the top of the Matt Busby statue accompanied by the words."We will remember them!"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2017, 09:35:04 AM
How many of "them" can they name?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 09, 2017, 09:57:40 AM
They had fairly large banners draped on the wall,with names emblazoned on each,behind the statue of Best,Law and Charlton.I assume these were the names of Utd players killed in action during World Wars
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 09, 2017, 11:16:16 AM
Own goal for the catholic church in enniskillen.

A memorial to the 12 people killed was to be housed on land beside the town's Clinton Centre.

However, a Catholic church trust, which owns the land, said it had not yet made a decision on the matter. The memorial has been put into storage.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: T Fearon on November 09, 2017, 11:42:08 AM
Hope they don't forget about the memorial.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dire Ear on November 09, 2017, 01:54:11 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 09, 2017, 11:16:16 AM
Own goal for the catholic church in enniskillen.

A memorial to the 12 people killed was to be housed on land beside the town's Clinton Centre.

However, a Catholic church trust, which owns the land, said it had not yet made a decision on the matter. The memorial has been put into storage.
Maybe the whole story is more complex than 2 lines
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 09, 2017, 02:00:26 PM
Forgot to post a link.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-41922627
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hereiam on November 09, 2017, 02:09:46 PM
The catholic church has every right to take their time over this decision. The fact that development plans are in the pipeline for the Clinton centre tells us that some sort of memorial is in the pipeline.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 09, 2017, 03:17:31 PM
Yesterday's memorial said that the victims were murdered.

Anyone else wonder if murder is the correct term?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haranguerer on November 09, 2017, 03:30:33 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 09, 2017, 11:16:16 AM
Own goal for the catholic church in enniskillen.

A memorial to the 12 people killed was to be housed on land beside the town's Clinton Centre.

However, a Catholic church trust, which owns the land, said it had not yet made a decision on the matter. The memorial has been put into storage.

Completely right to take their time, not be brow beaten into it by an 'outraged' public.

If there wasn't a poppy on the memorial I'd have no issue, with the poppy on it I do.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Keyser soze on November 09, 2017, 04:01:52 PM
The organizer of this memorial went off and got a nice memorial made and then sought and received planning permission to erect it.

Unfortunately they neglected the small detail of asking the landowner if it would be all right to put this up on their land. Now its somebody else's fault. The very public stink they have created here after being so presumptuous is leaving a very bad taste indeed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on November 09, 2017, 04:17:39 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on November 09, 2017, 04:01:52 PM
The organizer of this memorial went off and got a nice memorial made and then sought and received planning permission to erect it.

Unfortunately they neglected the small detail of asking the landowner if it would be all right to put this up on their land. Now its somebody else's fault. The very public stink they have created here after being so presumptuous is leaving a very bad taste indeed.

There is every chance they have engineered this situation exactly as it has panned out as they would rather this than having to ask in the first place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Sweeper 123 on November 09, 2017, 05:51:52 PM
A joke that a monument of this type has a poppy - not all killed were soldiers; And how can u erect anything on someone else's land without their permission
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 09, 2017, 06:19:20 PM
Quote from: Sweeper 123 on November 09, 2017, 05:51:52 PM
A joke that a monument of this type has a poppy - not all killed were soldiers; And how can u erect anything on someone else's land without their permission

The same way they took over someone else's land without their permission...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hereiam on November 09, 2017, 07:39:09 PM
U can apply for planning permission on someone else's land without their permission, as part of the application you have to notify the land owner that you have done so. I assume this is how they subbmitted the application for this.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2017, 08:50:39 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 09, 2017, 09:57:40 AM
They had fairly large banners draped on the wall,with names emblazoned on each,behind the statue of Best,Law and Charlton.I assume these were the names of Utd players killed in action during World Wars

Just checked the Utd website. 18 died in the 2 world wars and Boer war. Must be those.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hereiam on November 09, 2017, 09:40:23 PM
So here is how it went down
Ely Centre apply for planning permission to site the memorial at the gable wall of the Clinton centre i would assume without talking to the catholic church before they submitted the application to see if they would be in favour of it. The church would only have been officially notified as part of the application once it was validated. No drawings would been sent out to the church and it would have be up to them view the application online on in the council offices
TransportNI (Roads service) object to the siting of the memorial so it is moved around the corner of the Clinton center as shown on amended drawings submitted to the planners on the 2nd of June 2017 (the church would have had no notification of this happening from the planners which is normal practice)
Planning permission is granted 25 July 2017
I would assume the catholic church were made aware of the new location via a solicitors letter representing the Ely Centre looking rights to erect this memorial on land that they control.

I notice that there are 2 emails lodged on the planning portal which cannot be viewed for some reason and a letter of objection which has had parts of it blacked out with a marker for some reason.

As said before why has a poppy been put on the memorial and also it is a terrible looking thing anyway, you think they would want something more fitting.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 09, 2017, 09:49:26 PM
And how can u erect anything on someone else's land without their permission

Dont Know, ask Crossmaglen, they can tell you all about it!!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: SHEEDY on November 11, 2017, 07:09:47 PM
Keith andrews and kevin doyle sporting poppies on sky sports. :-[
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 10:06:50 PM
Two sports presenters on bbc one ni yesterday had no poppies ..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Minder on November 11, 2017, 10:07:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 10:06:50 PM
Two sports presenters on bbc one ni yesterday had no poppies ..

Who ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 10:18:05 PM
Sidebottom and Thomas Kane
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Surprised at both neil Lennon and Richards dunne wearing them tonight on ITV.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on November 12, 2017, 09:46:21 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Surprised at both neil Lennon and Richards dunne wearing them tonight on ITV.
You don't get out much
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2017, 09:51:54 AM
Christ the night!! Surprised at someone wearing a poppy on tv! And Irish men at that! What is the world coming to
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2017, 10:09:30 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Surprised at both neil Lennon and Richards dunne wearing them tonight on ITV.
I can't imagine Lennon was bullied into wearing one so if it was his choice then that's his prerogative.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2017, 10:14:38 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2017, 10:09:30 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Surprised at both neil Lennon and Richards dunne wearing them tonight on ITV.
I can't imagine Lennon was bullied into wearing one so if it was his choice then that's his prerogative.

You see this is the madness of his mindset! He truly believes that Lennon has let the side down by wearing a poppy! Has Neil not been reading the GAA board?? Probably thinks Lennon as you say was bullied by the poppy police to wear it!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 12, 2017, 11:00:23 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 12, 2017, 09:46:21 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Surprised at both neil Lennon and Richards dunne wearing them tonight on ITV.
You don't get out much

Really, I am shocked, especially at Dunne, he has a free pass but probably did not want to upset the golden goose!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 12, 2017, 11:59:57 AM
Commemoration at war memorial in Omagh disrupted by a suspect device planted on Drumragh Avenue had to be held at Omagh Academy as town centre closed off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41960294 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41960294)



Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2017, 12:20:15 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 12, 2017, 11:59:57 AM
Commemoration at war memorial in Omagh disrupted by a suspect device planted on Drumragh Avenue had to be held at Omagh Academy as town centre closed off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41960294 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41960294)

Obviously planted by the RUC/PNSI...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2017, 12:25:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2017, 12:20:15 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 12, 2017, 11:59:57 AM
Commemoration at war memorial in Omagh disrupted by a suspect device planted on Drumragh Avenue had to be held at Omagh Academy as town centre closed off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41960294 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41960294)

Obviously planted by the RUC/PNSI...

Ah, someone has seen the light ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: blewuporstuffed on November 12, 2017, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2017, 10:14:38 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2017, 10:09:30 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Surprised at both neil Lennon and Richards dunne wearing them tonight on ITV.
I can't imagine Lennon was bullied into wearing one so if it was his choice then that's his prerogative.

You see this is the madness of his mindset! He truly believes that Lennon has let the side down by wearing a poppy! Has Neil not been reading the GAA board?? Probably thinks Lennon as you say was bullied by the poppy police to wear it!
Thanks for the insight into my mindset.
For the record, if they chose to wear the poppy, that's their choice, I have no problem with it. I am just surprised that they did.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: stew on November 12, 2017, 03:32:37 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 12, 2017, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2017, 10:14:38 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2017, 10:09:30 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 11, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Surprised at both neil Lennon and Richards dunne wearing them tonight on ITV.
I can't imagine Lennon was bullied into wearing one so if it was his choice then that's his prerogative.

You see this is the madness of his mindset! He truly believes that Lennon has let the side down by wearing a poppy! Has Neil not been reading the GAA board?? Probably thinks Lennon as you say was bullied by the poppy police to wear it!
Thanks for the insight into my mindset.
For the record, if they chose to wear the poppy, that's their choice, I have no problem with it. I am just surprised that they did.

Its lennons choice to make, I would not take the gift of one but I have no problem if he wears one, I just find it strange he chooses to.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2017, 04:14:28 PM
Strange cause he's his own man and not a sheep?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ronnie on November 12, 2017, 04:41:24 PM
I'm not reading 136 pages.  "Poppy" by The Beautiful South says it all.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: omochain on November 12, 2017, 05:51:42 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on November 12, 2017, 04:41:24 PM
I'm not reading 136 pages.  "Poppy" by The Beautiful South says it all.


Had to do a bit of research to figure that one out. I guess my 40 years as an exile has a price.
Great post.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 12, 2017, 08:26:22 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41960294?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_news_ni&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=northern_ireland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41960294?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_news_ni&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=northern_ireland)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on November 12, 2017, 10:06:07 PM
Saw a poppy worn south of the border today for the 1st time, in Mid Monaghan...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Well on November 12, 2017, 10:23:58 PM
The Aviva was full of them on Saturday evening.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2017, 11:33:10 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 12, 2017, 10:06:07 PM
Saw a poppy worn south of the border today for the 1st time, in Mid Monaghan...

Was Peter Robinson in Clontibert again?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ronnie on November 12, 2017, 11:59:34 PM
Like, really, what was the reasoning behind that?

"Keep those entries coming
Leave those cameras running
Keep those entrails coming
Leave those soldiers gunning"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on November 13, 2017, 08:11:47 AM
Quote from: Boycey on November 12, 2017, 10:06:07 PM
Saw a poppy worn south of the border today for the 1st time, in Mid Monaghan...
How old are you? 5 or 6?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 13, 2017, 09:10:54 AM
The whole poppy thing is strange.  In the North in 2017 it's a much more divisive issue than it ever was in my youth in the 70s and 80s.  Back then it was simple, some Prods wore them for a few days in Nov, most Taigs didn't.  I don't remember many phone ins or Nolan shows dedicated to the issue.  What has changed? 

I noticed on the news last night they showed film of the Queen's first Remembrance Sunday in 1952.  As far as I could tell neither she nor Prince Philip were wearing poppies (though it was in B/W and she may have had one of those tiny metal ones on)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haranguerer on November 13, 2017, 10:02:20 AM
What has changed is that it is now practically enforced.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: blewuporstuffed on November 13, 2017, 10:10:49 AM
A good video on the subject from an ex British soldier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7ykb1geOoU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7ykb1geOoU)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 13, 2017, 10:26:18 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 13, 2017, 10:10:49 AM
A good video on the subject from an ex British soldier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7ykb1geOoU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7ykb1geOoU)

Interesting.

Future soldier. Never again. But there's always another. Funny how that message is never to the forefront of Rememberance Day. So, if people aren't saying/demanding "never again", isn't that them allowing it to happen again? And they'll keep crawling back to the cenotaph decade after decade, repeating this over and over.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: rosnarun on November 13, 2017, 10:47:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2017, 04:14:28 PM
Strange cause he’s his own man and not a sheep?
but if he wants to get a paying job on telly he has to wear it . he can be his own man in his own house , not on the BBCs time.
bad and all as poppies are I lost all repect for the FAIs team when they won black arm bands for the Diana spenser .
Really showed what side their bread is buttered on
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 13, 2017, 10:48:19 AM
James McClean has God on his side.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/he-shows-great-restraint-strength-and-integrity-cleric-admires-james-mcclean-for-poppy-stance-36313291.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/he-shows-great-restraint-strength-and-integrity-cleric-admires-james-mcclean-for-poppy-stance-36313291.html)

'A top Church of Ireland cleric has criticised the "ostentatious" wearing of poppies by everyone from sports commentators to 'X Factor' judges almost as a fashion statement while adding that he admired Irish soccer star James McClean's decision not to wear the symbol.'
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2017, 11:06:38 AM
That's that stuff over for another 10 months.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 13, 2017, 11:13:37 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on November 13, 2017, 10:47:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2017, 04:14:28 PM
Strange cause he's his own man and not a sheep?
but if he wants to get a paying job on telly he has to wear it . he can be his own man in his own house , not on the BBCs time.
bad and all as poppies are I lost all repect for the FAIs team when they won black arm bands for the Diana spenser .
Really showed what side their bread is buttered on

I couldn't believe that when I heard that. Even more baffling that they could have done something to remember those killed in Loughinisland at their next match in USA 94.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on November 13, 2017, 01:01:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2017, 11:06:38 AM
That's that stuff over for another 10 months.
We will have the "Would you wear an Easter Lily" in six months to keep us going
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 13, 2017, 01:23:23 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 13, 2017, 01:01:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2017, 11:06:38 AM
That's that stuff over for another 10 months.
We will have the "Would you wear an Easter Lily" in six months to keep us going

You don't have to wait that long..........

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/poll-sinn-fein-plan-for-easter-lily-at-city-hall-just-like-poppy-do-you-agree-36314312.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/poll-sinn-fein-plan-for-easter-lily-at-city-hall-just-like-poppy-do-you-agree-36314312.html)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thebigfella on November 13, 2017, 03:07:43 PM
https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch?lang=en (https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch?lang=en)

This is good, particularly the pornhub tweet.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 13, 2017, 04:27:25 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 13, 2017, 03:07:43 PM
https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch?lang=en (https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch?lang=en)

This is good, particularly the pornhub tweet.

This is long on respect:

"@Terrytmfc

If I see some dickheads wearing a white poppy they might just end up with a swift headbutt.  Show some respect for our fallen soldiers."
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on November 13, 2017, 07:13:21 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 13, 2017, 01:23:23 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 13, 2017, 01:01:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2017, 11:06:38 AM
That's that stuff over for another 10 months.
We will have the "Would you wear an Easter Lily" in six months to keep us going

You don't have to wait that long..........

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/poll-sinn-fein-plan-for-easter-lily-at-city-hall-just-like-poppy-do-you-agree-36314312.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/poll-sinn-fein-plan-for-easter-lily-at-city-hall-just-like-poppy-do-you-agree-36314312.html)
What's the Ulster Scotch for Easter Lily!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2017, 07:19:25 PM
Doshgrayshfoll Torrorosht omblom???
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 13, 2017, 07:29:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2017, 07:19:25 PM
Doshgrayshfoll Torrorosht omblom???

nope it's ayster Lily. stick in two random fadas anywhere you like.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 13, 2017, 10:12:01 PM
Surely it's like 'White floor o' that mon that rose agin'
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 14, 2017, 04:37:25 PM
(https://www.independent.ie/incoming/article36299705.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/II%20SECOND%20Read-Only.jpg)

Not surprisingly the teeshock wearing a poppy this year. Good old Fine Gael representing the west brits.

Order the Sashes for July lads.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2017, 04:41:28 PM
So thats him, and Lennon and Dunne! West Brits the lot of them
Quote from: foxcommander on November 14, 2017, 04:37:25 PM
(https://www.independent.ie/incoming/article36299705.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/II%20SECOND%20Read-Only.jpg)

Not surprisingly the teeshock wearing a poppy this year. Good old Fine Gael representing the west brits.

Order the Sashes for July lads.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AZOffaly on November 14, 2017, 04:43:43 PM
That's a poppy? It looks like a Shamrock.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 14, 2017, 04:54:23 PM
I think it's a combination of both, a pomrock.  Everything to all sides.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 14, 2017, 05:27:29 PM
A Shamoppy
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 14, 2017, 05:53:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 14, 2017, 04:37:25 PM
Not surprisingly the teeshock wearing a poppy this year. Good old Fine Gael representing the west brits.

This poppy is specifically to remember Irish soldiers who died in WW1.  Monies raised are used to maintain WW1 memorials.  The "teeshock" made that point as to his intent wearing it.

So as a clarification, do you see commemorating Irish men that died in WW1 as "representing the west brits"?

I ask because James McClean in his admirable letter about his refusal to wear a poppy on his shirt, did write he would have no problem commemorating those that died in WW1 (and even WW2).  So I wondering does your "west brit" brush paint as far as him?

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 14, 2017, 07:32:09 PM
Leo, another lickspittle to the Brits.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on November 14, 2017, 10:16:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2017, 07:32:09 PM
Leo, another lickspittle to the Brits.

Says one of the Queen's subjects
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: foxcommander on November 14, 2017, 10:47:29 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 14, 2017, 05:53:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 14, 2017, 04:37:25 PM
Not surprisingly the teeshock wearing a poppy this year. Good old Fine Gael representing the west brits.

This poppy is specifically to remember Irish soldiers who died in WW1.  Monies raised are used to maintain WW1 memorials.  The "teeshock" made that point as to his intent wearing it.

So as a clarification, do you see commemorating Irish men that died in WW1 as "representing the west brits"?

I ask because James McClean in his admirable letter about his refusal to wear a poppy on his shirt, did write he would have no problem commemorating those that died in WW1 (and even WW2).  So I wondering does your "west brit" brush paint as far as him?

/Jim.

I can't speak for Mr McClean. In my opinion anyone who claims to be irish and thinks about wearing a poppy is a west brit.
Clear enough?


Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 14, 2017, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 14, 2017, 10:16:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2017, 07:32:09 PM
Leo, another lickspittle to the Brits.

Says one of the Queen's subjects

That's a new one  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2017, 10:56:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 14, 2017, 10:47:29 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 14, 2017, 05:53:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 14, 2017, 04:37:25 PM
Not surprisingly the teeshock wearing a poppy this year. Good old Fine Gael representing the west brits.

This poppy is specifically to remember Irish soldiers who died in WW1.  Monies raised are used to maintain WW1 memorials.  The "teeshock" made that point as to his intent wearing it.

So as a clarification, do you see commemorating Irish men that died in WW1 as "representing the west brits"?

I ask because James McClean in his admirable letter about his refusal to wear a poppy on his shirt, did write he would have no problem commemorating those that died in WW1 (and even WW2).  So I wondering does your "west brit" brush paint as far as him?

/Jim.

I can't speak for Mr McClean. In my opinion anyone who claims to be irish and thinks about wearing a poppy is a west brit.
Clear enough?

Neil Lennon?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 12:51:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2017, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 14, 2017, 10:16:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2017, 07:32:09 PM
Leo, another lickspittle to the Brits.

Says one of the Queen's subjects

That's a new one  ::)
It's a fact though
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 15, 2017, 09:08:50 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 12:51:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2017, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 14, 2017, 10:16:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2017, 07:32:09 PM
Leo, another lickspittle to the Brits.

Says one of the Queen's subjects

That's a new one  ::)
It's a fact though

No it's not.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
He's just a jealous west brit
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
He's just a jealous west brit
Like it or not if you are born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland you are a subject of Elizabeth the Second whereas in the Republic you would be a citizen.

Don't be too upset. You are in good company
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2017, 10:53:16 AM
Have you read the Good Friday Agreement?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AQMP on November 15, 2017, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
He's just a jealous west brit
Like it or not if you are born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland you are a subject of Elizabeth the Second whereas in the Republic you would be a citizen.

Don't be too upset. You are in good company

No you're not.  Technically I'm both a British and Irish citizen, though in my day to day life I choose to identify as Irish.  Ironically one of the qualifications to be one of the few "British subjects" still around is to be born in the 26 counties before 1949, so your Da or Granda might be a British subject, but very few others are.  The "subject" designation was done away with in 1983 and cannot be passed on.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ronnie on November 15, 2017, 11:11:24 AM
Quote from: AQMP on November 15, 2017, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
He's just a jealous west brit
Like it or not if you are born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland you are a subject of Elizabeth the Second whereas in the Republic you would be a citizen.

Don't be too upset. You are in good company

No you're not.  Technically I'm both a British and Irish citizen, though in my day to day life I choose to identify as Irish.  Ironically one of the qualifications to be one of the few "British subjects" still around is to be born in the 26 counties before 1949, so your Da or Granda might be a British subject, but very few others are.  The "subject" designation was done away with in 1983 and cannot be passed on unless subsequently altered by the two sovereign nations.

Close this thread and open another called EU citizens watch.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnneycool on November 15, 2017, 11:32:34 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 14, 2017, 10:16:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 14, 2017, 07:32:09 PM
Leo, another lickspittle to the Brits.

Says one of the Queen's subjects


It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish nation.

Where is that written? answers on a postcard...



Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 01:09:29 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
He's just a jealous west brit
Like it or not if you are born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland you are a subject of Elizabeth the Second whereas in the Republic you would be a citizen.

Don't be too upset. You are in good company
So are you, bono and geldof.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 15, 2017, 01:42:57 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 15, 2017, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
He's just a jealous west brit
Like it or not if you are born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland you are a subject of Elizabeth the Second whereas in the Republic you would be a citizen.

Don't be too upset. You are in good company

No you're not.  Technically I'm both a British and Irish citizen, though in my day to day life I choose to identify as Irish.  Ironically one of the qualifications to be one of the few "British subjects" still around is to be born in the 26 counties before 1949, so your Da or Granda might be a British subject, but very few others are.  The "subject" designation was done away with in 1983 and cannot be passed on.

I've that clown on ignore but I'm glad that, on this occasion, the quote function allowed me to see him being made a fool of yet again.   ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 06:51:06 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2017, 01:42:57 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 15, 2017, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
He's just a jealous west brit
Like it or not if you are born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland you are a subject of Elizabeth the Second whereas in the Republic you would be a citizen.

Don't be too upset. You are in good company

No you're not.  Technically I'm both a British and Irish citizen, though in my day to day life I choose to identify as Irish.  Ironically one of the qualifications to be one of the few "British subjects" still around is to be born in the 26 counties before 1949, so your Da or Granda might be a British subject, but very few others are.  The "subject" designation was done away with in 1983 and cannot be passed on.

I've that clown on ignore but I'm glad that, on this occasion, the quote function allowed me to see him being made a fool of yet again.   ;D
It's good that her Majesty consented to give her subjects that option
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 15, 2017, 08:23:04 PM
Just an aside.

We often hear that we all have the right to wear a poppy or not to wear a poppy without reproach because those that the symbolic flower memorialises fought and died so that we have that right in a free society.  Well I can understand that in WWII given that the allies fought against the fascist forces of Germany, Italy and Japan even though the ally that practically won the war for the other through its superior sacrifice was a communist state not interested in personal freedoms. 

However, to say that those Irish and British who fought and died in WWI were fighting for the freedom as we enjoy today is a bit of a stretch as roughly speaking it was a war of empires, British, German, Russian, Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, etc. none of whom had the slightest interest in freedoms of the ordinary person to live as he/she saw fit.  It was never a war about freedom to do anything. If the Irish and British as well as those from the Commonwealth countries had never participated in the war to fight against Germany or had accepted an expanded Germany rather than killing millions in fighting for a relatively small piece of land, we probably would be no worse off today and probably WWII would never have occurred.

So, the claim that those who fought and died in WWI did so that we are free to live a a society where the individual is free to decide whether or not to wear a poppy is nonsense?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2017, 09:11:26 PM
I've only ever looked at the poppy as a charity, other people viewed the poppy as symbol of freedom, like you Owen I'd say more so the second War rather than first but because of the serious loss of life, especially from here during the Somme it's been a bigger push on wearing it!

But for whatever reason here more so than anywhere else it's been viewed as divisive.. possibly because the UVF as in the regiment not the paramilitaries were given the attention and the latter were keen jump on board!

Ignoring it, if it annoys you would have been a better idea
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Therealdonald on November 15, 2017, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
He's just a jealous west brit
Like it or not if you are born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland you are a subject of Elizabeth the Second whereas in the Republic you would be a citizen.

Don't be too upset. You are in good company

I think Star is on the wind-up
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 15, 2017, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2017, 09:11:26 PM
I've only ever looked at the poppy as a charity, other people viewed the poppy as symbol of freedom, like you Owen I'd say more so the second War rather than first but because of the serious loss of life, especially from here during the Somme it's been a bigger push on wearing it!

But for whatever reason here more so than anywhere else it's been viewed as divisive.. possibly because the UVF as in the regiment not the paramilitaries were given the attention and the latter were keen jump on board!

Ignoring it, if it annoys you would have been a better idea

I get the sense that the unionist mindset re: the somme, is these brave men gave their lives for our freedom etc. Honourable, brave etc. I look upon the Somme (and the wars in general) as one big giant cull. Absolute lunacy and total disregard for human life. There doesn't seem to be a sense of outrage at the total waste of life at these Remembrance services, and the lead up to it. To be honest, tens of thousands of lives lost, thousands of widows, children losing fathers etc, it's absolutely mental.

If there is another war in the morning, would people be outraged at a similar loss of lives or would they still think it was so brave? Was it Harry Patch who said, it wasn't worth losing one life over.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2017, 11:32:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2017, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2017, 09:11:26 PM
I've only ever looked at the poppy as a charity, other people viewed the poppy as symbol of freedom, like you Owen I'd say more so the second War rather than first but because of the serious loss of life, especially from here during the Somme it's been a bigger push on wearing it!

But for whatever reason here more so than anywhere else it's been viewed as divisive.. possibly because the UVF as in the regiment not the paramilitaries were given the attention and the latter were keen jump on board!

Ignoring it, if it annoys you would have been a better idea

I get the sense that the unionist mindset re: the somme, is these brave men gave their lives for our freedom etc. Honourable, brave etc. I look upon the Somme (and the wars in general) as one big giant cull. Absolute lunacy and total disregard for human life. There doesn't seem to be a sense of outrage at the total waste of life at these Remembrance services, and the lead up to it. To be honest, tens of thousands of lives lost, thousands of widows, children losing fathers etc, it's absolutely mental.

If there is another war in the morning, would people be outraged at a similar loss of lives or would they still think it was so brave? Was it Harry Patch who said, it wasn't worth losing one life over.

Pure lunacy but that was in hindsight, at the time they were led to believe different, bit like Brexit!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 15, 2017, 11:46:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2017, 11:32:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2017, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2017, 09:11:26 PM
I've only ever looked at the poppy as a charity, other people viewed the poppy as symbol of freedom, like you Owen I'd say more so the second War rather than first but because of the serious loss of life, especially from here during the Somme it's been a bigger push on wearing it!

But for whatever reason here more so than anywhere else it's been viewed as divisive.. possibly because the UVF as in the regiment not the paramilitaries were given the attention and the latter were keen jump on board!

Ignoring it, if it annoys you would have been a better idea

I get the sense that the unionist mindset re: the somme, is these brave men gave their lives for our freedom etc. Honourable, brave etc. I look upon the Somme (and the wars in general) as one big giant cull. Absolute lunacy and total disregard for human life. There doesn't seem to be a sense of outrage at the total waste of life at these Remembrance services, and the lead up to it. To be honest, tens of thousands of lives lost, thousands of widows, children losing fathers etc, it's absolutely mental.

If there is another war in the morning, would people be outraged at a similar loss of lives or would they still think it was so brave? Was it Harry Patch who said, it wasn't worth losing one life over.

Pure lunacy but that was in hindsight, at the time they were led to believe different, bit like Brexit!

Yes, but there's few in Britain (and here) that didn't have a relative that was in the wars. So with almost 100 years of hindsight and still no unified outrage at the lunacy of it all. Instead, they buy their poppies and send their boys off to more and more wars.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: macdanger2 on November 15, 2017, 11:52:43 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 15, 2017, 08:23:04 PM
Just an aside.

We often hear that we all have the right to wear a poppy or not to wear a poppy without reproach because those that the symbolic flower memorialises fought and died so that we have that right in a free society.  Well I can understand that in WWII given that the allies fought against the fascist forces of Germany, Italy and Japan even though the ally that practically won the war for the other through its superior sacrifice was a communist state not interested in personal freedoms. 

However, to say that those Irish and British who fought and died in WWI were fighting for the freedom as we enjoy today is a bit of a stretch as roughly speaking it was a war of empires, British, German, Russian, Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, etc. none of whom had the slightest interest in freedoms of the ordinary person to live as he/she saw fit.  It was never a war about freedom to do anything. If the Irish and British as well as those from the Commonwealth countries had never participated in the war to fight against Germany or had accepted an expanded Germany rather than killing millions in fighting for a relatively small piece of land, we probably would be no worse off today and probably WWII would never have occurred.

So, the claim that those who fought and died in WWI did so that we are free to live a a society where the individual is free to decide whether or not to wear a poppy is nonsense?

Good post
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haranguerer on November 16, 2017, 08:42:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2017, 11:32:05 PM

Pure lunacy but that was in hindsight, at the time they were led to believe different, bit like Brexit!

You're the only one round here who believes different re brexit
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Avondhu star on November 16, 2017, 08:47:02 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 15, 2017, 08:23:04 PM
Just an aside.

We often hear that we all have the right to wear a poppy or not to wear a poppy without reproach because those that the symbolic flower memorialises fought and died so that we have that right in a free society.  Well I can understand that in WWII given that the allies fought against the fascist forces of Germany, Italy and Japan even though the ally that practically won the war for the other through its superior sacrifice was a communist state not interested in personal freedoms. 

However, to say that those Irish and British who fought and died in WWI were fighting for the freedom as we enjoy today is a bit of a stretch as roughly speaking it was a war of empires, British, German, Russian, Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, etc. none of whom had the slightest interest in freedoms of the ordinary person to live as he/she saw fit.  It was never a war about freedom to do anything. If the Irish and British as well as those from the Commonwealth countries had never participated in the war to fight against Germany or had accepted an expanded Germany rather than killing millions in fighting for a relatively small piece of land, we probably would be no worse off today and probably WWII would never have occurred.

So, the claim that those who fought and died in WWI did so that we are free to live a a society where the individual is free to decide whether or not to wear a poppy is nonsense?

But if that happened how would the History Channel fill the hours it now uses on Nazi shows
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: JoG2 on November 16, 2017, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2017, 01:42:57 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 15, 2017, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 15, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 15, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
He's just a jealous west brit
Like it or not if you are born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland you are a subject of Elizabeth the Second whereas in the Republic you would be a citizen.

Don't be too upset. You are in good company

No you're not.  Technically I'm both a British and Irish citizen, though in my day to day life I choose to identify as Irish.  Ironically one of the qualifications to be one of the few "British subjects" still around is to be born in the 26 counties before 1949, so your Da or Granda might be a British subject, but very few others are.  The "subject" designation was done away with in 1983 and cannot be passed on.

I've that clown on ignore but I'm glad that, on this occasion, the quote function allowed me to see him being made a fool of yet again.   ;D

Reminded me of Kurt Russell owning Billy Bob in the saloon scene in Tombstone. Very satisying  :D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2017, 09:33:02 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 16, 2017, 08:42:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2017, 11:32:05 PM

Pure lunacy but that was in hindsight, at the time they were led to believe different, bit like Brexit!

You're the only one round here who believes different re brexit

Show me a post where I've said Brexit is a good thing? other than a wind up I've not stated anything other than, its done lets see if it happens and when it does will it be as bad as the experts say... my view is its been bad for years wages havent went up and thats not down to Brexit, its been like that for years before the vote
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haranguerer on November 17, 2017, 08:44:25 AM
That post mentions 'pure lunacy', you compare it to Brexit. That's in fitting with most peoples views, but not yours.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2017, 09:52:21 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 17, 2017, 08:44:25 AM
That post mentions 'pure lunacy', you compare it to Brexit. That's in fitting with most peoples views, but not yours.

Again, show me where I've said Brexit is a good thing, Ive already stated that we havent been down this road before so there is nothing to comapre it with.. my view has always been remain, I voted for it along with the majority of the rest of NI but the doom merchants on here have compared it with the 1800's..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trentoneill15 on November 20, 2017, 11:59:21 PM
My grandfathers uncles died in WW1, I don't wear a poppy, I would be too stingy to buy one even if I did want to.
The distant cousins in South USA loved to hear of their relatives dying in WW1 when I told them. They didn't seem to care about the old IRA fellow.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 22, 2017, 08:16:03 PM
Saw a guy today wearing an Easter Lily badge. Is this a bit early?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 22, 2017, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 22, 2017, 08:16:03 PM
Saw a guy today wearing an Easter Lily badge. Is this a bit early?

I think Cadbury's Creme Eggs should be available all year round.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 22, 2017, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 22, 2017, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 22, 2017, 08:16:03 PM
Saw a guy today wearing an Easter Lily badge. Is this a bit early?

I think Cadbury's Creme Eggs should be available all year round.

Out at the minute!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orchard park on November 22, 2017, 09:32:39 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 22, 2017, 08:16:03 PM
Saw a guy today wearing an Easter Lily badge. Is this a bit early?

Or maybe very late
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on February 05, 2018, 03:48:25 PM
Northern and Republic to play friendly in November (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/northern-ireland-to-play-republic-of-ireland-in-friendly-36569136.html).

Surely a chance to don the Poppy shirts and get booing Mclean.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on February 05, 2018, 06:34:57 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on February 05, 2018, 03:48:25 PM
Northern and Republic to play friendly in November (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/northern-ireland-to-play-republic-of-ireland-in-friendly-36569136.html).

Surely a chance to don the Poppy shirts and get booing Mclean.

/Jim.
Or don the Poppy shirts and get booed by most ROI fans in the stadium?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 05, 2018, 06:47:14 PM
"A  Night In November" will need to get dusted down.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 05, 2018, 06:55:39 PM
NI fans shouldn't be allowed in the Aviva. They'll wreck the place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 05, 2018, 06:59:46 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 05, 2018, 06:55:39 PM
NI fans shouldn't be allowed in the Aviva. They'll wreck the place.

Shouldn't be allowed out, full stop.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2018, 07:10:29 PM
This thread will go into overdrive come November
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 05, 2018, 07:13:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2018, 07:10:29 PM
This thread will go into overdrive come November

As will the Garda baton charge.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2018, 07:15:52 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on February 05, 2018, 07:13:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2018, 07:10:29 PM
This thread will go into overdrive come November

As will the Garda baton charge.

Can't see it being as bad as the English game! Some hammering dished out that night
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on February 05, 2018, 07:42:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 05, 2018, 06:55:39 PM
NI fans shouldn't be allowed in the Aviva. They'll wreck the place.
Wise up ffs.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on February 05, 2018, 10:20:31 PM
15 Nov is after Remembrance Day. Wearing poppies on shirts will have passed. Unfortunately, not for good.

I take it this is to do with the 25th anniversary of the 1993 qualifier?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 27, 2018, 11:34:40 PM
Its James McClean-bashing time again...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2018, 11:40:33 PM
Or anyone wearing a poppy that is a catholic working for the BBC
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on October 29, 2018, 08:45:36 AM
fcuk sake this is old and tired. ignore the poppies like orange marches they are worn here to annoy, stop being annoyed and you won't even see them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: APM on October 29, 2018, 08:50:31 AM
Worse than that - it is an embarrassment that the GAA discussion board has 140 odd pages of posts on this since 2010.  Have we nothing better to talk about. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on October 29, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: APM on October 29, 2018, 08:50:31 AM
Worse than that - it is an embarrassment that the GAA discussion board has 140 odd pages of posts on this since 2010.  Have we nothing better to talk about.

Invictus games? Sweet f**k have they no shame? Clearly not.

Think your doll Alex Jones from the One Show was anchor at one point in proceedings, literally caught 3 seconds when switching channel and she said "the event brings out the very best in humanity"... right... and what did it take to get there?

Fair few quislings from the demilitarised zone glued to it I'd say.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on October 29, 2018, 10:59:17 AM
I cannot understand why Sky made the yanks covering the American football wear poppies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 29, 2018, 11:05:27 AM
Plastic poppies on the lamp posts of Bristol this weekend.

Saw 6-8 cadets in one shopping centre selling them.

Theres no way this happened 10-15 years ago. What has caused the upturn? Fund the army??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on October 29, 2018, 11:14:18 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 29, 2018, 11:05:27 AM
Plastic poppies on the lamp posts of Bristol this weekend.

Saw 6-8 cadets in one shopping centre selling them.

Theres no way this happened 10-15 years ago. What has caused the upturn? Fund the army??

Propoganda, nationalism, normalisation, preparation and yes to plug a hole in the cost of nursing these broken meat suits when they irritatingly come back mamed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on October 29, 2018, 11:43:02 AM
English Nationalism.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2018, 12:02:43 PM
I was in Malta recently and saw Royal Legion collection boxes.
The Brits saved Malta so I could see the point. Ireland is much more complex

The country was hijacked from 1607 and nothing would ever be the same again
eg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Breifne
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on October 29, 2018, 12:08:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 29, 2018, 11:05:27 AM
Plastic poppies on the lamp posts of Bristol this weekend.

Saw 6-8 cadets in one shopping centre selling them.

Theres no way this happened 10-15 years ago. What has caused the upturn? Fund the army??

Brexit!!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 29, 2018, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: tiempo on October 29, 2018, 11:14:18 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 29, 2018, 11:05:27 AM
Plastic poppies on the lamp posts of Bristol this weekend.

Saw 6-8 cadets in one shopping centre selling them.

Theres no way this happened 10-15 years ago. What has caused the upturn? Fund the army??

Propoganda, nationalism, normalisation, preparation and yes to plug a hole in the cost of nursing these broken meat suits when they irritatingly come back mamed.
.

Thts exactly what it's about
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on October 29, 2018, 12:23:07 PM
What's the earliest acceptable date to wear a poppy? Saw a few at the weekend  ???
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on October 29, 2018, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 29, 2018, 11:05:27 AM
Plastic poppies on the lamp posts of Bristol this weekend.

Saw 6-8 cadets in one shopping centre selling them.

Theres no way this happened 10-15 years ago. What has caused the upturn? Fund the army??

Most English families would have some former or current serving member in the forces. Bristol has over 9000 staff at its MOD. The poppy is not perceived here the same as in N.Ireland, where it has been hijacked by bitter Unionism as a stick to beat the 'dirty fenians'. The irony is that outside of the English, the Irish have received the most VIctoria Crosses.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2018, 03:14:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2018, 12:23:07 PM
What's the earliest acceptable date to wear a poppy? Saw a few at the weekend  ???

Here in Canada - it's the last Friday of October until Nov 11th

http://www.legion.ca/remembrance/the-poppy/how-to-wear-a-poppy
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on October 29, 2018, 03:17:11 PM
Jazes that's worse than the North, where it's been the 12th of July 1690 since .... 1690.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2018, 03:28:09 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 29, 2018, 03:17:11 PM
Jazes that's worse than the North, where it's been the 12th of July 1690 since .... 1690.
The world is funny. King Billy stood for the rule of law and the end of royal despotism when he overthrew the Stuarts. He stood for reason and against mystical shite.
Now the Unionists are the superstitious crowd who can't say yes to anything.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on October 29, 2018, 06:57:54 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 29, 2018, 03:14:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2018, 12:23:07 PM
What's the earliest acceptable date to wear a poppy? Saw a few at the weekend  ???

Here in Canada - it's the last Friday of October until Nov 11th

http://www.legion.ca/remembrance/the-poppy/how-to-wear-a-poppy

The Canadian started all this craic, their major damage before Celine Dion.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 29, 2018, 07:09:46 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 29, 2018, 11:05:27 AM
Plastic poppies on the lamp posts of Bristol this weekend.

Saw 6-8 cadets in one shopping centre selling them.

Theres no way this happened 10-15 years ago. What has caused the upturn? Fund the army??
Been in London for a long weekend and hardly a poppy about the place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bogball88 on October 30, 2018, 11:55:23 AM
Stoke have issued a statement about James McClean refusing to wear a poppy. Hard to believe this is still making the news
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: maddog on October 30, 2018, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 29, 2018, 07:09:46 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 29, 2018, 11:05:27 AM
Plastic poppies on the lamp posts of Bristol this weekend.

Saw 6-8 cadets in one shopping centre selling them.

Theres no way this happened 10-15 years ago. What has caused the upturn? Fund the army??
Been in London for a long weekend and hardly a poppy about the place.

Haven't seen one in Brum so far
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnnycool on October 30, 2018, 12:38:56 PM
Hard to beat a good bit of jingoistic patriotism during an economic downturn.

Gives the masses something to take their mind off the mess all around them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 30, 2018, 01:34:34 PM
Quote from: bogball88 on October 30, 2018, 11:55:23 AM
Stoke have issued a statement about James McClean refusing to wear a poppy. Hard to believe this is still making the news

Oh you've seen nahin yet!

The usual unionist numpties will be wheeled out on Nolan soon enough
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2018, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 30, 2018, 12:38:56 PM
Hard to beat a good bit of jingoistic patriotism during an economic downturn.

Gives the masses something to take their mind off the mess all around them.

Austerity is over, did you not see the news last night?  :o
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnnycool on October 30, 2018, 03:08:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2018, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 30, 2018, 12:38:56 PM
Hard to beat a good bit of jingoistic patriotism during an economic downturn.

Gives the masses something to take their mind off the mess all around them.

Austerity is over, did you not see the news last night?  :o

Yes, cracked open a bottle of Dom Perignon to celebrate when watching Hammond to the 10 O'Clock news.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2018, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2018, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 30, 2018, 12:38:56 PM
Hard to beat a good bit of jingoistic patriotism during an economic downturn.

Gives the masses something to take their mind off the mess all around them.

Austerity is over, did you not see the news last night?  :o
delivered from the plague into the hands of cholera

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-kkk-men-posed-for-photo-with-national-front-leaders-girlfriend-37473073.html
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 30, 2018, 05:19:29 PM
Quote from: bogball88 on October 30, 2018, 11:55:23 AM
Stoke have issued a statement about James McClean refusing to wear a poppy. Hard to believe this is still making the news

I noticed a lot of outlets reporting that he had decided "once again". 

Are they waiting for him to change his mind or what?

Surely the open letter from his time at Wigan was pretty clear. 

Frankly one expects this kind of guff from a certain segment of the PUL community but this jingoism appears to becoming almost mainstream in UK.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 02, 2018, 07:50:27 PM
Must be a huge crowd of 700 at the Ballymena v Glenavon soccer match.

And one of the 700 is not wearing a poppy. Hang your head in shame Mr Sidebottom, lol.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: playwiththewind1st on November 02, 2018, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 02, 2018, 07:50:27 PM
Must be a huge crowd of 700 at the Ballymena v Glenavon soccer match.

And one of the 700 is not wearing a poppy. Hang your head in shame Mr Sidebottom, lol.

The man who slagged off the President of the GAA live in the same town lol.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: playwiththewind1st on November 02, 2018, 09:29:56 PM
Quote from: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!

Cos it's cheap & it fills the Friday night schedules & they can't afford any proper sport anyway. Oh & locally it satisfies the moaning PUL fleg protesting brigade.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hereiam on November 02, 2018, 10:07:53 PM
I would love to see the viewing figures for the two games shown so far.
Can the likes of UTV not show Ulster GAA club games. They know it will get large viewing numbers so advertising revenue so be no problem.
Is there any other country that this goes on in.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2018, 11:08:50 PM
Figures  in Gaelic life recently.

Some county semi finals had as much attending as a whole round of Irish league fixtures. County finals had even more.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 03, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!

If tg4 can purchase rights to games no reason why the BBC can't do better. Continued pressure and lobbying needed. As for utv??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2018, 09:10:31 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 03, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!

If tg4 can purchase rights to games no reason why the BBC can't do better. Continued pressure and lobbying needed. As for utv??
They have the rights yet aren't in Armagh tomorrow night. Perhaps in this instance we should ask TG4.
On another note excellent article from Brendan Crossan in the IN on poppies and the IFA. Apparently Junior Clubs are now having ceremonies. Can you imagine the outcry if Clan na Gael were to have an Easter Lily commemoration prior to an Armagh League game. Sport for All my arse.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 03, 2018, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 03, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!

If tg4 can purchase rights to games no reason why the BBC can't do better. Continued pressure and lobbying needed. As for utv??

TG4 bought the rights to all provincial club championship and AI championship games. Be sensible, why would the BBC try to outbid them and deprive people in the south from seeing them. 

TG4 exercise their rights purchase every week and prevent counties from broadcasting even when they have no intention of showing them live just an option to show them as clips.  Take your issues to TG4.

At least give the BBC some credit for buying highlight rights to all 9 county finals and showing them on its Gaelic Games web page.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920)

Or maybe none of that fits your agenda.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 03, 2018, 12:13:27 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 03, 2018, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 03, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!

If tg4 can purchase rights to games no reason why the BBC can't do better. Continued pressure and lobbying needed. As for utv??

TG4 bought the rights to all provincial club championship and AI championship games. Be sensible, why would the BBC try to outbid them and deprive people in the south from seeing them. 

TG4 exercise their rights purchase every week and prevent counties from broadcasting even when they have no intention of showing them live just an option to show them as clips.  Take your issues to TG4.

At least give the BBC some credit for buying highlight rights to all 9 county finals and showing them on its Gaelic Games web page.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920)

Or maybe none of that fits your agenda.

No agenda honestly. I listen to the BBC coverage on medium wave a lot. Just feel as the main broadcaster they could do more. They could enter into a deal with tg4 perhaps to show games from Ulster club??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Carmen Stateside on November 03, 2018, 12:25:10 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 03, 2018, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 03, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!

If tg4 can purchase rights to games no reason why the BBC can't do better. Continued pressure and lobbying needed. As for utv??

TG4 bought the rights to all provincial club championship and AI championship games. Be sensible, why would the BBC try to outbid them and deprive people in the south from seeing them. 

TG4 exercise their rights purchase every week and prevent counties from broadcasting even when they have no intention of showing them live just an option to show them as clips.  Take your issues to TG4.

At least give the BBC some credit for buying highlight rights to all 9 county finals and showing them on its Gaelic Games web page.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920)

Or maybe none of that fits your agenda.

Bit rich coming from you!!!  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 03, 2018, 01:38:06 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 03, 2018, 09:10:31 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 03, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!

If tg4 can purchase rights to games no reason why the BBC can't do better. Continued pressure and lobbying needed. As for utv??
They have the rights yet aren't in Armagh tomorrow night. Perhaps in this instance we should ask TG4.
On another note excellent article from Brendan Crossan in the IN on poppies and the IFA. Apparently Junior Clubs are now having ceremonies. Can you imagine the outcry if Clan na Gael were to have an Easter Lily commemoration prior to an Armagh League game. Sport for All my arse.

The IFA don't have the balls to stand up to the knuckle draggers regarding such issues. They didn't play GSTQ at one final then hadn't the balls to continue eith it. I think, like the DUP they don't want to reach out or compromise. Any sort of compromise would dilute their Britishness. So it's always circle the wagons and never look beyond the end of your nose
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dire Ear on November 03, 2018, 01:54:27 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on November 03, 2018, 12:25:10 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 03, 2018, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 03, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!

If tg4 can purchase rights to games no reason why the BBC can't do better. Continued pressure and lobbying needed. As for utv??

TG4 bought the rights to all provincial club championship and AI championship games. Be sensible, why would the BBC try to outbid them and deprive people in the south from seeing them. 

TG4 exercise their rights purchase every week and prevent counties from broadcasting even when they have no intention of showing them live just an option to show them as clips.  Take your issues to TG4.

At least give the BBC some credit for buying highlight rights to all 9 county finals and showing them on its Gaelic Games web page.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920)

Or maybe none of that fits your agenda.

Bit rich coming from you!!!  ::)
Agreed !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 04, 2018, 10:18:25 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 03, 2018, 01:54:27 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on November 03, 2018, 12:25:10 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 03, 2018, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 03, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Targetman on November 02, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
Why are the BBC even showing this crap, their cameras should be in the Athletic Grounds tomorrow night for Cross and the Island, but we all know this'll never happen!!

If tg4 can purchase rights to games no reason why the BBC can't do better. Continued pressure and lobbying needed. As for utv??

TG4 bought the rights to all provincial club championship and AI championship games. Be sensible, why would the BBC try to outbid them and deprive people in the south from seeing them. 

TG4 exercise their rights purchase every week and prevent counties from broadcasting even when they have no intention of showing them live just an option to show them as clips.  Take your issues to TG4.

At least give the BBC some credit for buying highlight rights to all 9 county finals and showing them on its Gaelic Games web page.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/45976920)

Or maybe none of that fits your agenda.

Bit rich coming from you!!!  ::)
Agreed !

What a pair of hypocrites! Everyone on this forum has their own agenda, some may prefer to call it their opinion. You wouldn't be contributing to the forum if you didn't have an agenda/opinion.  The problem arises when someone has an opinion at variance with your own.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 04, 2018, 02:08:34 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/james-mcclean-issues-extraordinary-attack-on-uneducated-cavemen-fans-then-quotes-ira-martyr-after-being-abused-on-pitch-for-not-wearing-poppy/ar-BBPjBOT?li=BBoPWjP

Poppy fascism
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: GJL on November 04, 2018, 02:15:57 PM
Fair play to him. Sticks to his well founded principles. 💪🏻💪🏻
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 02:34:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 04, 2018, 02:15:57 PM
Fair play to him. Sticks to his well founded principles. 💪🏻💪🏻
Calling the fans that pay your wages cnuts and quoting Bobby Sands wasnt wise.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 03:37:33 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 04, 2018, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 02:34:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 04, 2018, 02:15:57 PM
Fair play to him. Sticks to his well founded principles. 💪🏻💪🏻
Calling the fans that pay your wages cnuts and quoting Bobby Sands wasnt wise.
Why?
It escalates it unnecessarily. Most Stoke fans backed him yesterday, they dont today.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 03:57:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 04, 2018, 03:44:49 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 03:37:33 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 04, 2018, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 02:34:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 04, 2018, 02:15:57 PM
Fair play to him. Sticks to his well founded principles. 💪🏻💪🏻
Calling the fans that pay your wages cnuts and quoting Bobby Sands wasnt wise.
Why?
It escalates it unnecessarily. Most Stoke fans backed him yesterday, they dont today.
Nonsense. If people are going to act like cnuts, they should be called out on it. If others don't like this, they'd want to catch a grip too. People are all too willing to tiptoe around scumbags like this and look at it as part of the game. It's time people started to call it for what it is.
Neither Stoke nor McClean will lose anything by him saying it.
Naive rubbish. You cannot call your own fans cnuts in public, even if they are. Quoting Bobby Sands the day they honour their dead is provocation.  He was winning the debate this year, then this posting.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 04, 2018, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 03:57:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 04, 2018, 03:44:49 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 03:37:33 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 04, 2018, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2018, 02:34:43 PM
Quote from: GJL on November 04, 2018, 02:15:57 PM
Fair play to him. Sticks to his well founded principles. 💪🏻💪🏻
Calling the fans that pay your wages cnuts and quoting Bobby Sands wasnt wise.
Why?
It escalates it unnecessarily. Most Stoke fans backed him yesterday, they dont today.
Nonsense. If people are going to act like cnuts, they should be called out on it. If others don't like this, they'd want to catch a grip too. People are all too willing to tiptoe around scumbags like this and look at it as part of the game. It's time people started to call it for what it is.
Neither Stoke nor McClean will lose anything by him saying it.
Naive rubbish. You cannot call your own fans cnuts in public, even if they are. Quoting Bobby Sands the day they honour their dead is provocation.  He was winning the debate this year, then this posting.
What is going to happen to him? Nothing.
"We expect you to honour our dead and don't dare quote Bobby Sands, you Fenian b**tard."
Aye, dead on. He is still winning the debate. Why? Because he is 100% right.

I agree he is right. This instatweet was a bad move. I can see him training with the reserves for a few weeks and getting a torrid time on and off the park. The Stoke manager has form in this regard.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rudi on November 04, 2018, 06:53:39 PM
The poppy is a load of utter scutter. Expecting people to wear it  goes against basic human rights. No true Irishman would wear it.McClean is 100 percent right.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ambrose on November 04, 2018, 08:56:42 PM
McClean will end up at Celtic, hopefully the Poppy won't be an issue for him there.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:01:30 PM
You would expect a lot more Irish footballers to object to wearing a poppy on the same basis as McClean. Also saw Nemanja Matic wasn't wearing one on Saturday i think but very little being made of that?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 04, 2018, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on November 04, 2018, 08:56:42 PM
McClean will end up at Celtic, hopefully the Poppy won't be an issue for him there.
Do Celtic not wear the poppy on their shirt?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 04, 2018, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on November 04, 2018, 08:56:42 PM
McClean will end up at Celtic, hopefully the Poppy won't be an issue for him there.
Do Celtic not wear the poppy on their shirt?

Short answer is no. Definitely didn't against Hearts yesterday
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lurganblue on November 04, 2018, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:01:30 PM
You would expect a lot more Irish footballers to object to wearing a poppy on the same basis as McClean. Also saw Nemanja Matic wasn't wearing one on Saturday i think but very little being made of that?

Finally another player has an issue with it. Interested to see how this one plays out
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: From the Bunker on November 04, 2018, 10:05:19 PM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 04, 2018, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on November 04, 2018, 08:56:42 PM
McClean will end up at Celtic, hopefully the Poppy won't be an issue for him there.
Do Celtic not wear the poppy on their shirt?

Short answer is no. Definitely didn't against Hearts yesterday

(https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/CELTIC-V-HEARTS-FEATURED-e1541334724618.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Double D on November 04, 2018, 10:07:40 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 04, 2018, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:01:30 PM
You would expect a lot more Irish footballers to object to wearing a poppy on the same basis as McClean. Also saw Nemanja Matic wasn't wearing one on Saturday i think but very little being made of that?

Finally another player has an issue with it. Interested to see how this one plays out

Been very quiet this though hasn't it. Which is strange
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: markl121 on November 04, 2018, 10:18:00 PM
Did anyone see the Melissa reddy interview on sky sports news? She didn't wear a poppy so they decided to ask her about it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 04, 2018, 11:37:17 PM
Half the screaming scum bags in the crowd aren't wearing their beloved poppies either.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 05, 2018, 07:16:23 AM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 10:07:40 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 04, 2018, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:01:30 PM
You would expect a lot more Irish footballers to object to wearing a poppy on the same basis as McClean. Also saw Nemanja Matic wasn't wearing one on Saturday i think but very little being made of that?

Finally another player has an issue with it. Interested to see how this one plays out

Been very quiet this though hasn't it. Which is strange

Perhaps if McClean didn't release an annual statement to court publicity, then the outcry may not be as loud.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: sensethetone on November 05, 2018, 08:22:34 AM
Fantasy premier league has poppy's on the jerseys, they know where their bread is buttered.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Taylor on November 05, 2018, 08:50:48 AM
So Matic doesnt wear a poppy and it gets little air time.
Wonder is it anything to do with McClean being a Catholic from the Bogside that he gets so much abuse?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haranguerer on November 05, 2018, 09:09:32 AM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2018, 07:16:23 AM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 10:07:40 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 04, 2018, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:01:30 PM
You would expect a lot more Irish footballers to object to wearing a poppy on the same basis as McClean. Also saw Nemanja Matic wasn't wearing one on Saturday i think but very little being made of that?

Finally another player has an issue with it. Interested to see how this one plays out

Been very quiet this though hasn't it. Which is strange

Perhaps if McClean didn't release an annual statement to court publicity, then the outcry may not be as loud.

Absolutely ludicrous. You can't have posted that in seriousness?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 05, 2018, 09:21:12 AM
A couple of observations. Was out socialising in Belfast's cathedral quarter over the weekend. A lot of punters out wearing their poppies. A lot of them completely inebriated. Some women seem to treat them as fashion accessories. As do some men. I don't see the need to wear a poppy when you're out getting blocked, maybe someone could explain that one to me.. anyhoo, supposedly James McClean is being disrespectful by not wearing one, but the people I saw at the weekend are ten times worse.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2018, 09:25:15 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2018, 09:21:12 AM
A couple of observations. Was out socialising in Belfast's cathedral quarter over the weekend. A lot of punters out wearing their poppies. A lot of them completely inebriated. Some women seem to treat them as fashion accessories. As do some men. I don't see the need to wear a poppy when you're out getting blocked, maybe someone could explain that one to me.. anyhoo, supposedly James McClean is being disrespectful by not wearing one, but the people I saw at the weekend are ten times worse.

So you can't go out in town have a drink, and wear a poppy? Oh I love reading this thread every year! The effort you've made to be annoyed at poppy wearers is at expert level
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 05, 2018, 08:50:48 AM
So Matic doesnt wear a poppy and it gets little air time.
Wonder is it anything to do with McClean being a Catholic from the Bogside that he gets so much abuse?

Matic not wearing it has had plenty of coverage..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 05, 2018, 08:50:48 AM
So Matic doesnt wear a poppy and it gets little air time.
Wonder is it anything to do with McClean being a Catholic from the Bogside that he gets so much abuse?

Matic not wearing it has had plenty of coverage..

Note even close in comparison to McClean.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 10:07:41 AM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7651475/nemanja-matic-refuse-poppy-abuse-manchester-united/

I know it's the Sun......some of the comments are unbelievable 😂
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:15:17 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 05, 2018, 08:50:48 AM
So Matic doesnt wear a poppy and it gets little air time.
Wonder is it anything to do with McClean being a Catholic from the Bogside that he gets so much abuse?

Matic not wearing it has had plenty of coverage..

Note even close in comparison to McClean.

In what way?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 05, 2018, 10:19:29 AM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 04, 2018, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on November 04, 2018, 08:56:42 PM
McClean will end up at Celtic, hopefully the Poppy won't be an issue for him there.
Do Celtic not wear the poppy on their shirt?

Short answer is no. Definitely didn't against Hearts yesterday
Im sure ive seen celtic wear the poopy on the jersey before. Maybe James would be better to say nothing. He made his point. Dont wear it and say nothing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trailer on November 05, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
One interesting observation. Was at Sprucefiled yesterday (for those unfamiliar think of middle class church going protestants holding pen) anyways when you watch TV you'd think everyone was wearing a poppy. I'd say yesterday 1 in every 50 people was wearing one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: themac_23 on November 05, 2018, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 05, 2018, 10:19:29 AM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 04, 2018, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on November 04, 2018, 08:56:42 PM
McClean will end up at Celtic, hopefully the Poppy won't be an issue for him there.
Do Celtic not wear the poppy on their shirt?

Short answer is no. Definitely didn't against Hearts yesterday
Im sure ive seen celtic wear the poopy on the jersey before. Maybe James would be better to say nothing. He made his point. Dont wear it and say nothing.

We did one year, i remember it, it was possibly the same year as the GB 'no bloodstained poppy on our hoops' display, the backlash was pretty fierce, we no longer put a poppy on but any player who wishes to wear one is free to. It is also noted that Celtic donate more to the poppy appeal in Scotland than any of the other clubs
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 05, 2018, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2018, 09:25:15 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2018, 09:21:12 AM
A couple of observations. Was out socialising in Belfast's cathedral quarter over the weekend. A lot of punters out wearing their poppies. A lot of them completely inebriated. Some women seem to treat them as fashion accessories. As do some men. I don't see the need to wear a poppy when you're out getting blocked, maybe someone could explain that one to me.. anyhoo, supposedly James McClean is being disrespectful by not wearing one, but the people I saw at the weekend are ten times worse.

So you can't go out in town have a drink, and wear a poppy? Oh I love reading this thread every year! The effort you've made to be annoyed at poppy wearers is at expert level
I'm not annoyed. People can wear what they want and it makes no odds to me. I just think it gets worn for the completely wrong reasons, to the extent that I have barely any respect for anyone that wears one nowadays. It's a symbol of british nationalism that I think has made a worrying rise in recent years. I know you plied your trade in h&w once upon a time but not everyone is as subservient as you in your outlook when it comes to things like this.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: passedit on November 05, 2018, 11:48:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 05, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
One interesting observation. Was at Sprucefiled yesterday (for those unfamiliar think of middle class church going protestants holding pen) anyways when you watch TV you'd think everyone was wearing a poppy. I'd say yesterday 1 in every 50 people was wearing one.

I was out and about around London at the back end of last week and must have passed thosands of people on foot. At most I saw ten Poppies. The fact that wearing them on tv and playing sport is virtually compulsory skews peoples perceptions.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2018, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2018, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2018, 09:25:15 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2018, 09:21:12 AM
A couple of observations. Was out socialising in Belfast's cathedral quarter over the weekend. A lot of punters out wearing their poppies. A lot of them completely inebriated. Some women seem to treat them as fashion accessories. As do some men. I don't see the need to wear a poppy when you're out getting blocked, maybe someone could explain that one to me.. anyhoo, supposedly James McClean is being disrespectful by not wearing one, but the people I saw at the weekend are ten times worse.

So you can't go out in town have a drink, and wear a poppy? Oh I love reading this thread every year! The effort you've made to be annoyed at poppy wearers is at expert level
I'm not annoyed. People can wear what they want and it makes no odds to me. I just think it gets worn for the completely wrong reasons, to the extent that I have barely any respect for anyone that wears one nowadays. It's a symbol of british nationalism that I think has made a worrying rise in recent years. I know you plied your trade in h&w once upon a time but not everyone is as subservient tolerant as you in your outlook when it comes to things like this.

Fixed that for you
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 05, 2018, 03:01:45 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 04, 2018, 05:13:02 PM
Firstly, if the club back those thugs over him it sends out a terrible message. Abuse our players if you wish. Secondly, he already gets a torrid time. That's what he's standing up against. I can't see him caring one bit about being sent to the reserves over this. You are totally over-hyping it.
Cough cough
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: magpie seanie on November 05, 2018, 03:12:25 PM
Surely the terminology alleged to have been used by the "supporters" is in fact a criminal offence? Isn't that what should be the focus here?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 05, 2018, 06:07:02 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 05, 2018, 09:09:32 AM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2018, 07:16:23 AM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 10:07:40 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 04, 2018, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: Double D on November 04, 2018, 09:01:30 PM
You would expect a lot more Irish footballers to object to wearing a poppy on the same basis as McClean. Also saw Nemanja Matic wasn't wearing one on Saturday i think but very little being made of that?

Finally another player has an issue with it. Interested to see how this one plays out

Been very quiet this though hasn't it. Which is strange

Perhaps if McClean didn't release an annual statement to court publicity, then the outcry may not be as loud.

Absolutely ludicrous. You can't have posted that in seriousness?
Everyone is now fully aware of his position.  Why not just discuss the situation privately with his current employer and get on with the business of playing football.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46095169

Abuse is ok as long as it's directed at Fenians😡
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 05, 2018, 08:10:42 PM
Prob get shot down for this. But maybe he could wear a black armband for those that died in the 2 wars. Dont think any irishman would have an issue with that. And it a compromise.  Whether they like it or not the poppy is a very devisive symbol. They say its for all servicemen who fought and served but id say 90% of those that do actually wear it,
wear it for the dead of those 2 wars.
Alternativly mcclean should just get on with it make no statement and ignore the reactions from these people.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 08:19:33 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 05, 2018, 08:10:42 PM
Prob get shot down for this. But maybe he could wear a black armband for those that died in the 2 wars. Dont think any irishman would have an issue with that. And it a compromise.  Whether they like it or not the poppy is a very devisive symbol. They say its for all servicemen who fought and served but id say 90% of those that do actually wear it,
wear it for the dead of those 2 wars.
Alternativly mcclean should just get on with it make no statement and ignore the reactions from these people.

The alternative is that those who wish to wear one do so......and not abuse anyone who doesn't....for whatever reason. Imagine getting abused at your place of work for years....would you put up with it?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 05, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
I think he was foolish to use a Bobby Sands quote in his defence. It allows for distraction and arguments about whether Sands was a terrorist etc.. Also using the word **** was inappropriate.

Apart from that he is 1,000% correct to call this bigotry out for what it is.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on November 05, 2018, 10:21:20 PM
http://www.extratime.ie/articles/21889/cian-mortimer-britains-sporting-authorities-have-turned-a-blind-eye-to-anti-irish-discrimination---what-will-they-do-to-stop-it/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2018, 10:54:23 PM
Frank Feighan sending Shamrock poppies to all politicians.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 11:07:56 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:15:17 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 05, 2018, 08:50:48 AM
So Matic doesnt wear a poppy and it gets little air time.
Wonder is it anything to do with McClean being a Catholic from the Bogside that he gets so much abuse?

Matic not wearing it has had plenty of coverage..

Note even close in comparison to McClean.

In what way?

A small example on this tweet...

https://twitter.com/YouBoysInGreen/status/1059511697201946624?s=19
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyHarp on November 06, 2018, 09:19:49 AM
My son is 5, we live in England and in school he has recently been learning about the World Wars in the lead up to Remberance Day. He arrived home with a poppy he had made in school which he is very keen to wear. He also wants to buy one from school and seems very interested in the idea of remembering those who have died. He is however a little confused with the whole message as he wants to put a poppy on my dads grave to remember him when we visit home at Christmas - I think that might cause a bit of turning in the grave! The thing is that the school are clearly only focusing on the World Wars, which I feel is correct and I have no problem with remembering those who died - it does however stick in my craw that he wants to wear a poppy but I don't want to burden him with a whole pile of baggage about why I'm not happy with it.

In regard to getting grief in the workplace about the poppy - I'm a teacher and in the past I have been told in no uncertain terms that I'm expected to wear a poppy as part of the British Values agenda that is pushed in schools over here. I have always politely declined though and it has never been pushed further than that.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Maroon Manc on November 06, 2018, 09:44:11 AM
I've just been listening to LBC where they talked about Matic, didn't even mention McClean.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 06, 2018, 11:07:28 AM
The Poppy Watch Twitter stream is great craic.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnnycool on November 06, 2018, 11:28:18 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on November 06, 2018, 09:19:49 AM
My son is 5, we live in England and in school he has recently been learning about the World Wars in the lead up to Remberance Day. He arrived home with a poppy he had made in school which he is very keen to wear. He also wants to buy one from school and seems very interested in the idea of remembering those who have died. He is however a little confused with the whole message as he wants to put a poppy on my dads grave to remember him when we visit home at Christmas - I think that might cause a bit of turning in the grave! The thing is that the school are clearly only focusing on the World Wars, which I feel is correct and I have no problem with remembering those who died - it does however stick in my craw that he wants to wear a poppy but I don't want to burden him with a whole pile of baggage about why I'm not happy with it.

In regard to getting grief in the workplace about the poppy - I'm a teacher and in the past I have been told in no uncertain terms that I'm expected to wear a poppy as part of the British Values agenda that is pushed in schools over here. I have always politely declined though and it has never been pushed further than that.

It would be interesting what slant he's being taught wrt the World Wars though. I'd make the presumption that it's a pretty jaundiced view of how the British Army operated with the warts of the likes of Bomber Harris and his crew neatly forgotten about and probably no mention of Russia and the major, major part it played in the winning of the second world war.

I honestly think this poppy day bullshit and glorification like the Invictus games is a way of encouraging the kids from disadvantaged backgrounds to sign up to be slaughtered protecting commercial interests further afield amd generating vast wealth for the military war machine.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 06, 2018, 11:58:27 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46092838

The fact that they can't recruit enough on home soil brings home the sense of abandonment many ex service men feel. That's why in my opinion this poppy fascism has taken hold in recent years.....to raise money to cover the cost of support provided by the likes of the British Legion.....a cost that the government should bear. Many of the homeless I encounter are ex service men who feel abandoned by the government. If the government are so proud of the armed forces then why don't they support them on their return from Iraq/Afghanistan. It's very easy to send someone else's son or daughter to war. Living in England I see poppies everywhere and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.....it's when it is rammed down people's throats that I have an issue. I will probably be attending a remembrance service this Sunday as the people I support normally attend....again no problem.....and I'll be wearing one to commemorate my grandfather who served in Second World War......if that makes me a hypocrite....then I'm a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on November 06, 2018, 03:10:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 11:07:56 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:15:17 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 05, 2018, 08:50:48 AM
So Matic doesnt wear a poppy and it gets little air time.
Wonder is it anything to do with McClean being a Catholic from the Bogside that he gets so much abuse?

Matic not wearing it has had plenty of coverage..

Note even close in comparison to McClean.

In what way?

A small example on this tweet...

https://twitter.com/YouBoysInGreen/status/1059511697201946624?s=19

An example from a couple of years ago?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Evil Genius on November 06, 2018, 03:29:57 PM
Food for thought?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46101553 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46101553)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trailer on November 06, 2018, 03:39:36 PM
Heaps of Irish men died in both World Wars. They should be remembered.
The Poppy has almost become a toxic symbol because of Poppy Fascists. I am fairly certain the RBL never wanted that to be the case.

Interesting that you were expected to wear a Poppy as part of the 'British Values' agenda. As a very quick thought if you live in lets say Saudia Arabia are you expected to wear the traditional dress etc? Then we have the Burka debate. Are we tolerant of other peoples views? Even when they bring them to our own doorstep?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2018, 03:49:38 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 06, 2018, 03:10:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 11:07:56 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:15:17 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 05, 2018, 08:50:48 AM
So Matic doesnt wear a poppy and it gets little air time.
Wonder is it anything to do with McClean being a Catholic from the Bogside that he gets so much abuse?

Matic not wearing it has had plenty of coverage..

Note even close in comparison to McClean.

In what way?

A small example on this tweet...

https://twitter.com/YouBoysInGreen/status/1059511697201946624?s=19

An example from a couple of years ago?

You can find the exact same headlines again this year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on November 06, 2018, 04:11:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 06, 2018, 03:49:38 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 06, 2018, 03:10:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 11:07:56 PM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:15:17 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
Quote from: Boycey on November 05, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 05, 2018, 08:50:48 AM
So Matic doesnt wear a poppy and it gets little air time.
Wonder is it anything to do with McClean being a Catholic from the Bogside that he gets so much abuse?

Matic not wearing it has had plenty of coverage..

Note even close in comparison to McClean.

In what way?

A small example on this tweet...

https://twitter.com/YouBoysInGreen/status/1059511697201946624?s=19

An example from a couple of years ago?

You can find the exact same headlines again this year.

Can you? The Mirror certainly adopted a different tone.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/james-mcclean-wont-wear-poppy-13505008
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: magpie seanie on November 06, 2018, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46095169

Abuse is ok as long as it's directed at Fenians😡

Seriously though - I understand anti-Irish abuse is a crime in the UK. Surely the perpetrators should be easily identifiable in a soccer stadium and dealt with appropriately?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 06, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 06, 2018, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46095169

Abuse is ok as long as it's directed at Fenians😡

Seriously though - I understand anti-Irish abuse is a crime in the UK. Surely the perpetrators should be easily identifiable in a soccer stadium and dealt with appropriately?

Well let's consider this.....John Taylor calls Varadkar.....'typical Indian'.....nothing happens
Sponsored burning of effigies and anything remotely Nationalist every year.....nothing happens
Sectarian abuse and death threats to McClean and Lennon.....nothing happens
Don't forget that up until recently the Head of State couldn't marry a Catholic.....they can now....but they themselves can't be a Catholic........now imagine if instead of Catholic it was Jew or Protestant or Muslim. You couldn't make it up but now you know why the Tories and DUP are made for each other.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 06, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 06, 2018, 03:39:36 PM
Heaps of Irish men died in both World Wars. They should be remembered.
The Poppy has almost become a toxic symbol because of Poppy Fascists. I am fairly certain the RBL never wanted that to be the case.

Interesting that you were expected to wear a Poppy as part of the 'British Values' agenda. As a very quick thought if you live in lets say Saudia Arabia are you expected to wear the traditional dress etc? Then we have the Burka debate. Are we tolerant of other peoples views? Even when they bring them to our own doorstep?

The British Legion's stance is that wearing the thing should be personal choice. But it must be more proactive in putting that message out to the uneducated cavemen. So-called nationalists in the media should grow a set also and refuse to wear one on camera (apart from Frank Mitchell, of course, who loves an oul poppy as much as he loves changing his name to make it more acceptable to his unionist employers)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 06, 2018, 11:25:51 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 06, 2018, 03:39:36 PM
Heaps of Irish men died in both World Wars. They should be remembered.
The Poppy has almost become a toxic symbol because of Poppy Fascists. I am fairly certain the RBL never wanted that to be the case.

Interesting that you were expected to wear a Poppy as part of the 'British Values' agenda. As a very quick thought if you live in lets say Saudia Arabia are you expected to wear the traditional dress etc? Then we have the Burka debate. Are we tolerant of other peoples views? Even when they bring them to our own doorstep?

The British Legion's stance is that wearing the thing should be personal choice. But it must be more proactive in putting that message out to the uneducated cavemen. So-called nationalists in the media should grow a set also and refuse to wear one on camera (apart from Frank Mitchell, of course, who loves an oul poppy as much as he loves changing his name to make it more acceptable to his unionist employers)

He did that to work as a DJ on a border radio station.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2018, 01:43:55 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 06, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 06, 2018, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46095169

Abuse is ok as long as it's directed at Fenians😡

Seriously though - I understand anti-Irish abuse is a crime in the UK. Surely the perpetrators should be easily identifiable in a soccer stadium and dealt with appropriately?

Well let's consider this.....John Taylor calls Varadkar.....'typical Indian'.....nothing happens
Sponsored burning of effigies and anything remotely Nationalist every year.....nothing happens
Sectarian abuse and death threats to McClean and Lennon.....nothing happens
Don't forget that up until recently the Head of State couldn't marry a Catholic.....they can now....but they themselves can't be a Catholic........now imagine if instead of Catholic it was Jew or Protestant or Muslim. You couldn't make it up but now you know why the Tories and DUP are made for each other.

I don't think the UK monarch could be Jewish or Muslim, or anything other than Church of England.  The monarch is head of the Church of England, so presumably has to be part of that religion in order to be able to function in that capacity.  I don't think that particular policy is anti-Catholic as such.  Any more than saying that a Presbyterian couldn't be pope.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 07, 2018, 01:53:24 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2018, 01:43:55 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 06, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 06, 2018, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46095169

Abuse is ok as long as it's directed at Fenians😡

Seriously though - I understand anti-Irish abuse is a crime in the UK. Surely the perpetrators should be easily identifiable in a soccer stadium and dealt with appropriately?

Well let's consider this.....John Taylor calls Varadkar.....'typical Indian'.....nothing happens
Sponsored burning of effigies and anything remotely Nationalist every year.....nothing happens
Sectarian abuse and death threats to McClean and Lennon.....nothing happens
Don't forget that up until recently the Head of State couldn't marry a Catholic.....they can now....but they themselves can't be a Catholic........now imagine if instead of Catholic it was Jew or Protestant or Muslim. You couldn't make it up but now you know why the Tories and DUP are made for each other.

I don't think the UK monarch could be Jewish or Muslim, or anything other than Church of England.  The monarch is head of the Church of England, so presumably has to be part of that religion in order to be able to function in that capacity.  I don't think that particular policy is anti-Catholic as such.  Any more than saying that a Presbyterian couldn't be pope.

Of course it is anti Catholic, the monarch shouldn't be running a church.
The UK is a sectarian state, they burn effigies of a Catholic at this time of year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 07, 2018, 07:10:51 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2018, 01:43:55 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 06, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 06, 2018, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46095169

Abuse is ok as long as it's directed at Fenians😡

Seriously though - I understand anti-Irish abuse is a crime in the UK. Surely the perpetrators should be easily identifiable in a soccer stadium and dealt with appropriately?

Well let's consider this.....John Taylor calls Varadkar.....'typical Indian'.....nothing happens
Sponsored burning of effigies and anything remotely Nationalist every year.....nothing happens
Sectarian abuse and death threats to McClean and Lennon.....nothing happens
Don't forget that up until recently the Head of State couldn't marry a Catholic.....they can now....but they themselves can't be a Catholic........now imagine if instead of Catholic it was Jew or Protestant or Muslim. You couldn't make it up but now you know why the Tories and DUP are made for each other.

I don't think the UK monarch could be Jewish or Muslim, or anything other than Church of England.  The monarch is head of the Church of England, so presumably has to be part of that religion in order to be able to function in that capacity.  I don't think that particular policy is anti-Catholic as such.  Any more than saying that a Presbyterian couldn't be pope.

Up until relatively recently...2011 I think....the head of state could NOT marry a Catholic......if that's not anti- Catholic then I don't know what is in your world.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LooseCannon on November 07, 2018, 07:14:19 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 07, 2018, 07:10:51 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2018, 01:43:55 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 06, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 06, 2018, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46095169

Abuse is ok as long as it's directed at Fenians😡

Seriously though - I understand anti-Irish abuse is a crime in the UK. Surely the perpetrators should be easily identifiable in a soccer stadium and dealt with appropriately?

Well let's consider this.....John Taylor calls Varadkar.....'typical Indian'.....nothing happens
Sponsored burning of effigies and anything remotely Nationalist every year.....nothing happens
Sectarian abuse and death threats to McClean and Lennon.....nothing happens
Don't forget that up until recently the Head of State couldn't marry a Catholic.....they can now....but they themselves can't be a Catholic........now imagine if instead of Catholic it was Jew or Protestant or Muslim. You couldn't make it up but now you know why the Tories and DUP are made for each other.

I don't think the UK monarch could be Jewish or Muslim, or anything other than Church of England.  The monarch is head of the Church of England, so presumably has to be part of that religion in order to be able to function in that capacity.  I don't think that particular policy is anti-Catholic as such.  Any more than saying that a Presbyterian couldn't be pope.

Up until relatively recently...2011 I think....the head of state could NOT marry a Catholic......if that's not anti- Catholic then I don't know what is in your world.

Wasn't there a thing that the PM couldn't be Catholic either? (It's more than likely changed since, but still)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 07, 2018, 07:54:30 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on November 07, 2018, 07:14:19 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 07, 2018, 07:10:51 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2018, 01:43:55 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 06, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 06, 2018, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46095169

Abuse is ok as long as it's directed at Fenians😡

Seriously though - I understand anti-Irish abuse is a crime in the UK. Surely the perpetrators should be easily identifiable in a soccer stadium and dealt with appropriately?

Well let's consider this.....John Taylor calls Varadkar.....'typical Indian'.....nothing happens
Sponsored burning of effigies and anything remotely Nationalist every year.....nothing happens
Sectarian abuse and death threats to McClean and Lennon.....nothing happens
Don't forget that up until recently the Head of State couldn't marry a Catholic.....they can now....but they themselves can't be a Catholic........now imagine if instead of Catholic it was Jew or Protestant or Muslim. You couldn't make it up but now you know why the Tories and DUP are made for each other.

I don't think the UK monarch could be Jewish or Muslim, or anything other than Church of England.  The monarch is head of the Church of England, so presumably has to be part of that religion in order to be able to function in that capacity.  I don't think that particular policy is anti-Catholic as such.  Any more than saying that a Presbyterian couldn't be pope.

Up until relatively recently...2011 I think....the head of state could NOT marry a Catholic......if that's not anti- Catholic then I don't know what is in your world.

Wasn't there a thing that the PM couldn't be Catholic either? (It's more than likely changed since, but still)

Well there hasn't been one so far.....maybe why a certain Jacob Rees-Mogg keeps distancing himself from Tory leadership. Blair converted after he left office. The problem arises because a PM would be advising the Queen or Head of State on secular appointments within the Church of England.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 07, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 05, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
I think he was foolish to use a Bobby Sands quote in his defence. It allows for distraction and arguments about whether Sands was a terrorist etc.. Also using the word **** was inappropriate.

Apart from that he is 1,000% correct to call this bigotry out for what it is.

/Jim.
Why? this is the type of crap that still goes on in NI, its ok for Unionism to laude its various military and paramilitary icons but don't let Mc Clean quote Bobby Sands lest he offend sensitive ears.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2018, 12:58:40 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 07, 2018, 07:10:51 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 07, 2018, 01:43:55 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 06, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 06, 2018, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 05, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46095169

Abuse is ok as long as it's directed at Fenians😡

Seriously though - I understand anti-Irish abuse is a crime in the UK. Surely the perpetrators should be easily identifiable in a soccer stadium and dealt with appropriately?

Well let's consider this.....John Taylor calls Varadkar.....'typical Indian'.....nothing happens
Sponsored burning of effigies and anything remotely Nationalist every year.....nothing happens
Sectarian abuse and death threats to McClean and Lennon.....nothing happens
Don't forget that up until recently the Head of State couldn't marry a Catholic.....they can now....but they themselves can't be a Catholic........now imagine if instead of Catholic it was Jew or Protestant or Muslim. You couldn't make it up but now you know why the Tories and DUP are made for each other.

I don't think the UK monarch could be Jewish or Muslim, or anything other than Church of England.  The monarch is head of the Church of England, so presumably has to be part of that religion in order to be able to function in that capacity.  I don't think that particular policy is anti-Catholic as such.  Any more than saying that a Presbyterian couldn't be pope.

Up until relatively recently...2011 I think....the head of state could NOT marry a Catholic......if that's not anti- Catholic then I don't know what is in your world.

Did I say that wasn't anti-Catholic?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 07, 2018, 11:24:22 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 07, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 05, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
I think he was foolish to use a Bobby Sands quote in his defence. It allows for distraction and arguments about whether Sands was a terrorist etc.. Also using the word **** was inappropriate.

Apart from that he is 1,000% correct to call this bigotry out for what it is.

/Jim.
Why? this is the type of crap that still goes on in NI, its ok for Unionism to laude its various military and paramilitary icons but don't let Mc Clean quote Bobby Sands lest he offend sensitive ears.
To the English, Bobby Sands might as well be some historical figure, an ancient Irish rebel like Tom Clarke, he died over 35 years ago. 

The Independent uk  reported   
"Late on Saturday night, McClean, who was also booed by some home fans, responded by quoting Bobby Sands, a member of the Provisional IRA and MP for Fermanagh and South Tyrone, who infamously died in 1981 on hunger strike while imprisoned in Northern Ireland."
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken," McClean wrote, quoting Sands.


The Mirror also treated the incident quite fairly, quoting McClean's reasons for not wearing the poppy and complete with pictures and videos of hordes of cavemen going mental at the end of that football match.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 08, 2018, 12:42:56 AM
James Mc Clean has gone seriously up in my estimation - pity a few more 'Irish' people wouldn't join him - instead of keeping their heads down!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on November 08, 2018, 10:08:50 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 08, 2018, 12:42:56 AM
James Mc Clean has gone seriously up in my estimation - pity a few more 'Irish' people wouldn't join him - instead of keeping their heads down!!

Yep. His approach might be a bit un-nuanced for some but its holding up a mirror to the neanderthals and poppy fascists and raising the question of inherent British racist attitudes towards the Irish and also the spectre of British colonial conquest and oppression of Ireland. Quite an achievement.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 08, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 07, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 05, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
I think he was foolish to use a Bobby Sands quote in his defence. It allows for distraction and arguments about whether Sands was a terrorist etc.. Also using the word **** was inappropriate.

Apart from that he is 1,000% correct to call this bigotry out for what it is.

/Jim.
Why? this is the type of crap that still goes on in NI, its ok for Unionism to laude its various military and paramilitary icons but don't let Mc Clean quote Bobby Sands lest he offend sensitive ears.

Because, when you want to make a point, I always believe less is more.  Highlight the poppy fascism and sheer racism involved you stick to that only.  Throwing in the quote gives people a chance to start a side bar discussion: "One man's freedom fighter", "Is he an IRA supporter", "Is that why he won't wear the poppy".

James made excellent arguments in his letter to Wigan a few year's back.  I believe he is best served to stick to those points, no distractions.

That shows these goons up.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC

Maybe they have reasons for wearing them? Other than the view you think most people wear them? Does someone from Cornwall wearing one piss you off?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: pbat on November 09, 2018, 08:18:08 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC
Wouldnt expect anything else from Frankie, he hadnt even the balls to use his own name.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Targetman on November 09, 2018, 09:10:51 PM
Reginald D. Hunter the only one on Have I got news for you not wearing one, so its not compulsory?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 09:55:17 PM
Quote from: Targetman on November 09, 2018, 09:10:51 PM
Reginald D. Hunter the only one on Have I got news for you not wearing one, so its not compulsory?
Who says it is? I've seen plenty not wearing poppies on tv!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 09, 2018, 10:13:18 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC

Totally agree.  Time a lot more of the media - probably 50/50 now, to stop wearing them also, instead of pandering !
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 09, 2018, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: pbat on November 09, 2018, 08:18:08 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC
Wouldnt expect anything else from Frankie, he hadnt even the balls to use his own name.

No surprise, a college man.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 10, 2018, 07:38:12 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/james-mcclean-issues-statement-to-stoke-city-supporters/ar-BBPxf1a?li=BBoPWjP
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 10, 2018, 08:36:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 09:55:17 PM
Quote from: Targetman on November 09, 2018, 09:10:51 PM
Reginald D. Hunter the only one on Have I got news for you not wearing one, so its not compulsory?
Who says it is? I've seen plenty not wearing poppies on tv!

Ok Milltown you want to wear a poppy we get it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 08:38:38 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 10, 2018, 08:36:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 09:55:17 PM
Quote from: Targetman on November 09, 2018, 09:10:51 PM
Reginald D. Hunter the only one on Have I got news for you not wearing one, so its not compulsory?
Who says it is? I've seen plenty not wearing poppies on tv!

Ok Milltown you want to wear a poppy we get it.

Never have never will, I just don't get offended, same as an Easter Lilly, if people choose to wear one then go ahead. Some snowflakes about
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 10, 2018, 08:44:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 08:38:38 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 10, 2018, 08:36:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 09:55:17 PM
Quote from: Targetman on November 09, 2018, 09:10:51 PM
Reginald D. Hunter the only one on Have I got news for you not wearing one, so its not compulsory?
Who says it is? I've seen plenty not wearing poppies on tv!

Ok Milltown you want to wear a poppy we get it.

Never have never will, I just don't get offended, same as an Easter Lilly, if people choose to wear one then go ahead. Some snowflakes about

Just right. Would never wear it either and have never wore an easter Lilly. Load of balls sticking silly flowers on yourself.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 10, 2018, 10:02:00 AM
I work in the Civil Service. The only there's any degree of uncomfortableness between the 2 sections of the community is at poppy time. They should ban the feckin thing. I used to go mass at lunchtime when there was a holiday of obligation. Most times the church was practically empty, come Ash Wednesday they were queued down the street. Every bit as bad. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 10, 2018, 10:06:52 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 10, 2018, 10:02:00 AM
I work in the Civil Service. The only there's any degree of uncomfortableness between the 2 sections of the community is at poppy time. They should ban the feckin thing. I used to go mass at lunchtime when there was a holiday of obligation. Most times the church was practically empty, come Ash Wednesday they were queued down the street. Every bit as bad.

Worked in CS at one time. There was a no emblems rule in place which was adhered to. Until November time.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: RedHand88 on November 10, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 10, 2018, 10:02:00 AM
I work in the Civil Service. The only there's any degree of uncomfortableness between the 2 sections of the community is at poppy time. They should ban the feckin thing. I used to go mass at lunchtime when there was a holiday of obligation. Most times the church was practically empty, come Ash Wednesday they were queued down the street. Every bit as bad.

I remember the mass thing from uni. Queens chaplaincy was empty all year until ash Wednesday when every gombeen was in to get the ashes before walking out of mass and into the pub.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2018, 03:24:13 PM
I've been here in England since Wed. Travelled from Sussex to Lancashire, attended a wedding and I have not yet seen one person wearing a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: playwiththewind1st on November 10, 2018, 03:27:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 10, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 10, 2018, 10:02:00 AM
I work in the Civil Service. The only there's any degree of uncomfortableness between the 2 sections of the community is at poppy time. They should ban the feckin thing. I used to go mass at lunchtime when there was a holiday of obligation. Most times the church was practically empty, come Ash Wednesday they were queued down the street. Every bit as bad.

I remember the mass thing from uni. Queens chaplaincy was empty all year until ash Wednesday when every gombeen was in to get the ashes before walking out of mass and into the pub.

Ash Wednesday - just another reason to get full & trash the Holylands.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 10, 2018, 04:19:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC

Maybe they have reasons for wearing them? Other than the view you think most people wear them? Does someone from Cornwall wearing one piss you off?

We're it for the sole reason to remember soldiers who died in World War I and II, I wouldn't have an issue whatsoever. But you know as well as I do that the thing has been completely hijacked to include all of the Brits' imperial misbehaviour. Any West Brit wearing a poppy is remembering the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, murdering Para bastards of Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday, and colluding, murdering bastards of the UDR and RUC.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2018, 04:19:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC

Maybe they have reasons for wearing them? Other than the view you think most people wear them? Does someone from Cornwall wearing one piss you off?

We're it for the sole reason to remember soldiers who died in World War I and II, I wouldn't have an issue whatsoever. But you know as well as I do that the thing has been completely hijacked to include all of the Brits' imperial misbehaviour. Any West Brit wearing a poppy is remembering the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, murdering Para b**tards of Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday, and colluding, murdering b**tards of the UDR and RUC.

So anyone wearing it, its to remember the Black and Tans? Holy f**k! I've heard it now ! What flipping age are you? You've allowed the unionist agenda to blind your view on the actual reason of it when it was brought out!

Respect the people who wear it for ones who died in the world wars, anyone wearing it for other reasons is a balloon!

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 10, 2018, 05:11:13 PM
Aye, whatever. Knock yourself out
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 05:45:13 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2018, 05:11:13 PM
Aye, whatever. Knock yourself out

Look lad, lift your head out of your hole, you are no different to the headers who said the GAA is the IRA at play. Pure sweeping generalised statements
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 10, 2018, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2018, 03:24:13 PM
I've been here in England since Wed. Travelled from Sussex to Lancashire, attended a wedding and I have not yet seen one person wearing a poppy.

They have more sense maybe than the wankers in their media maybe and louts at football matches.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2018, 06:47:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2018, 04:19:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC

Maybe they have reasons for wearing them? Other than the view you think most people wear them? Does someone from Cornwall wearing one piss you off?

We're it for the sole reason to remember soldiers who died in World War I and II, I wouldn't have an issue whatsoever. But you know as well as I do that the thing has been completely hijacked to include all of the Brits' imperial misbehaviour. Any West Brit wearing a poppy is remembering the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, murdering Para b**tards of Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday, and colluding, murdering b**tards of the UDR and RUC.

So anyone wearing it, its to remember the Black and Tans? Holy f**k! I've heard it now ! What flipping age are you? You've allowed the unionist agenda to blind your view on the actual reason of it when it was brought out!

Respect the people who wear it for ones who died in the world wars, anyone wearing it for other reasons is a balloon!

Anyone who is wearing it choosing a symbol used to commemorate the Black and Tans, there is  no point in denying that. SOmeone can remember someone without coat trailing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 10, 2018, 07:49:17 PM
The British governments propaganda/media machine make it look like everyone in Britain is wearing a poppy, and anyone who doesn't isn't patriotic. The reality is far from that but that thinking filters down to the numpties who abuse the likes of McClean while not even wearing one themselves.

The poppy has become more controversial since the fa got teams to wear them on their shirts. It should have no place in the sporting arena. It is a divisive emblem and unfair to put players (from many nationalities) in a position to wear one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: theticklemister on November 10, 2018, 10:20:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2018, 03:24:13 PM
I've been here in England since Wed. Travelled from Sussex to Lancashire, attended a wedding and I have not yet seen one person wearing a poppy.

Ye didn't pop in for a cup of tea when you were in Lancashrie with me  you didn't 'like Lancashire GAA either when you were here
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on November 10, 2018, 10:34:48 PM
Watched Toronto Raptors and NY Knicks there, a lot of poppies on show from the 'suits' on both benches and some in the crowd. A Canadian thing I'm sure
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 11:10:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2018, 06:47:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2018, 04:19:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC

Maybe they have reasons for wearing them? Other than the view you think most people wear them? Does someone from Cornwall wearing one piss you off?

We're it for the sole reason to remember soldiers who died in World War I and II, I wouldn't have an issue whatsoever. But you know as well as I do that the thing has been completely hijacked to include all of the Brits' imperial misbehaviour. Any West Brit wearing a poppy is remembering the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, murdering Para b**tards of Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday, and colluding, murdering b**tards of the UDR and RUC.

So anyone wearing it, its to remember the Black and Tans? Holy f**k! I've heard it now ! What flipping age are you? You've allowed the unionist agenda to blind your view on the actual reason of it when it was brought out!

Respect the people who wear it for ones who died in the world wars, anyone wearing it for other reasons is a balloon!

Anyone who is wearing it choosing a symbol used to commemorate the Black and Tans, there is  no point in denying that. SOmeone can remember someone without coat trailing.

So you've never worn a Easter lily or ant sort of badge representing something, and if anyone you know has, you'll say the same thing to them? My post to the other snowflake was that someone wearing a poppy in Cornwall wearing a poppy for his personal reasons was to celebrate the Black and Tans? If that's the case you are a dickhead
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 10, 2018, 11:47:27 PM
I assume with eloquence like this you must have been captain of the school debating team
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2018, 11:59:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 11:10:31 PM
So you've never worn a Easter lily or ant sort of badge representing something, and if anyone you know has, you'll say the same thing to them? My post to the other snowflake was that someone wearing a poppy in Cornwall wearing a poppy for his personal reasons was to celebrate the Black and Tans? If that's the case you are a d**khead

You are very quick to resort to abuse, the sure sign of a lack of argument.
Cornwall is not Ireland, wearing a military symbol in a place that fought is not the same as wearing it in the place that is the object of those military attentions.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 10, 2018, 11:47:27 PM
I assume with eloquence like this you must have been captain of the school debating team

I went to St Pauls secondary school, Beechmount West Belfast, there was no debating or eloquence. And we didn't suffer snowflakes, I grew up during a time of conflict but was able to understand right from wrong very quickly, the best education in the world is wasted on the ignorance
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dire Ear on November 11, 2018, 12:00:42 AM
Arrogance again
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 12:05:57 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2018, 11:59:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 11:10:31 PM
So you've never worn a Easter lily or ant sort of badge representing something, and if anyone you know has, you'll say the same thing to them? My post to the other snowflake was that someone wearing a poppy in Cornwall wearing a poppy for his personal reasons was to celebrate the Black and Tans? If that's the case you are a d**khead

You are very quick to resort to abuse, the sure sign of a lack of argument.
Cornwall is not Ireland, wearing a military symbol in a place that fought is not the same as wearing it in the place that is the object of those military attentions.

So by saying someone is wrong and him calling you out is abuse means he's wrong? Then you are more daft than I thought.

I don't have an argument. People complaining or feeling that someone has a different view to them
About poppies is daft. You are an accident of birth, had you been born on the Shankill you'd have a different view.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 11, 2018, 12:12:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 11:10:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2018, 06:47:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2018, 04:19:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC

Maybe they have reasons for wearing them? Other than the view you think most people wear them? Does someone from Cornwall wearing one piss you off?

We're it for the sole reason to remember soldiers who died in World War I and II, I wouldn't have an issue whatsoever. But you know as well as I do that the thing has been completely hijacked to include all of the Brits' imperial misbehaviour. Any West Brit wearing a poppy is remembering the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, murdering Para b**tards of Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday, and colluding, murdering b**tards of the UDR and RUC.

So anyone wearing it, its to remember the Black and Tans? Holy f**k! I’ve heard it now ! What flipping age are you? You’ve allowed the unionist agenda to blind your view on the actual reason of it when it was brought out!

Respect the people who wear it for ones who died in the world wars, anyone wearing it for other reasons is a balloon!

Anyone who is wearing it choosing a symbol used to commemorate the Black and Tans, there is  no point in denying that. SOmeone can remember someone without coat trailing.

So you’ve never worn a Easter lily or ant sort of badge representing something, and if anyone you know has, you’ll say the same thing to them? My post to the other snowflake was that someone wearing a poppy in Cornwall wearing a poppy for his personal reasons was to celebrate the Black and Tans? If that’s the case you are a d**khead

Anyone wearing a poppy supports ALL the wars that the British have fought in/are fighting in - whether that's 100 years ago or 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2018, 12:13:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 10, 2018, 11:47:27 PM
I assume with eloquence like this you must have been captain of the school debating team

I went to St Pauls secondary school, Beechmount West Belfast, there was no debating or eloquence.

We'd never have guessed.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 12:05:57 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2018, 11:59:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 11:10:31 PM
So you've never worn a Easter lily or ant sort of badge representing something, and if anyone you know has, you'll say the same thing to them? My post to the other snowflake was that someone wearing a poppy in Cornwall wearing a poppy for his personal reasons was to celebrate the Black and Tans? If that's the case you are a d**khead

You are very quick to resort to abuse, the sure sign of a lack of argument.
Cornwall is not Ireland, wearing a military symbol in a place that fought is not the same as wearing it in the place that is the object of those military attentions.

So by saying someone is wrong and him calling you out is abuse means he's wrong? Then you are more daft than I thought.


Calling people " d**khead" or "daft" does nothing to argue against their point, so it is simply abuse.

QuoteI don't have an argument. People complaining or feeling that someone has a different view to them

Views are one thing, symbols of military organisations, another.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 12:25:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 11, 2018, 12:12:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 11:10:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2018, 06:47:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2018, 04:19:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC

Maybe they have reasons for wearing them? Other than the view you think most people wear them? Does someone from Cornwall wearing one piss you off?

We're it for the sole reason to remember soldiers who died in World War I and II, I wouldn't have an issue whatsoever. But you know as well as I do that the thing has been completely hijacked to include all of the Brits' imperial misbehaviour. Any West Brit wearing a poppy is remembering the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, murdering Para b**tards of Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday, and colluding, murdering b**tards of the UDR and RUC.

So anyone wearing it, its to remember the Black and Tans? Holy f**k! I've heard it now ! What flipping age are you? You've allowed the unionist agenda to blind your view on the actual reason of it when it was brought out!

Respect the people who wear it for ones who died in the world wars, anyone wearing it for other reasons is a balloon!

Anyone who is wearing it choosing a symbol used to commemorate the Black and Tans, there is  no point in denying that. SOmeone can remember someone without coat trailing.

So you've never worn a Easter lily or ant sort of badge representing something, and if anyone you know has, you'll say the same thing to them? My post to the other snowflake was that someone wearing a poppy in Cornwall wearing a poppy for his personal reasons was to celebrate the Black and Tans? If that's the case you are a d**khead

Anyone wearing a poppy supports ALL the wars that the British have fought in/are fighting in - whether that's 100 years ago or 20 years ago.

Do they? And you've asked them?

Before the bbc and the poppy group got together to make it more commercial, as it's a fundraising company that makes millions and coped on to the fact that there is a way of exploiting the world wars.

It was actually just a charity group that actually helped ex servicemen (bit like the green collectors that came  around to ask for money for people in jail, how much went to families eh?)

Other groups bandwagoned it and divided a place on it,if you are easily annoyed you will be
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 11, 2018, 01:23:20 AM
f**k, that English teacher at St Paul's was operating under false pretences judging by the shite you spout
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 11, 2018, 05:20:26 AM
I was watching 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown on More 4 last night and none of the panel were wearing poppies. Rachel Riley herself was wearing next to nothing as well which was even better.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 11, 2018, 10:24:43 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 10, 2018, 10:20:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2018, 03:24:13 PM
I've been here in England since Wed. Travelled from Sussex to Lancashire, attended a wedding and I have not yet seen one person wearing a poppy.

Ye didn't pop in for a cup of tea when you were in Lancashrie with me  you didn't 'like Lancashire GAA either when you were here

Wish I had come for the tea - wouldn't have this head on me now.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 11, 2018, 10:31:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 12:25:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 11, 2018, 12:12:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 11:10:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2018, 06:47:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2018, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 10, 2018, 04:19:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2018, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
Fair play to Tracey Magee, refusing to wear a poppy on UTV Live... girl has more balls than Frankie Fuckwit and all those other west Brits on UTV and local BBC

Maybe they have reasons for wearing them? Other than the view you think most people wear them? Does someone from Cornwall wearing one piss you off?

We're it for the sole reason to remember soldiers who died in World War I and II, I wouldn't have an issue whatsoever. But you know as well as I do that the thing has been completely hijacked to include all of the Brits' imperial misbehaviour. Any West Brit wearing a poppy is remembering the Black and Tans, Auxilliaries, murdering Para b**tards of Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday, and colluding, murdering b**tards of the UDR and RUC.

So anyone wearing it, its to remember the Black and Tans? Holy f**k! I've heard it now ! What flipping age are you? You've allowed the unionist agenda to blind your view on the actual reason of it when it was brought out!

Respect the people who wear it for ones who died in the world wars, anyone wearing it for other reasons is a balloon!

Anyone who is wearing it choosing a symbol used to commemorate the Black and Tans, there is  no point in denying that. SOmeone can remember someone without coat trailing.

So you've never worn a Easter lily or ant sort of badge representing something, and if anyone you know has, you'll say the same thing to them? My post to the other snowflake was that someone wearing a poppy in Cornwall wearing a poppy for his personal reasons was to celebrate the Black and Tans? If that's the case you are a d**khead

Anyone wearing a poppy supports ALL the wars that the British have fought in/are fighting in - whether that's 100 years ago or 20 years ago.

Do they? And you've asked them?

Before the bbc and the poppy group got together to make it more commercial, as it's a fundraising company that makes millions and coped on to the fact that there is a way of exploiting the world wars.

It was actually just a charity group that actually helped ex servicemen (bit like the green collectors that came  around to ask for money for people in jail, how much went to families eh?)

Other groups bandwagoned it and divided a place on it,if you are easily annoyed you will be

If they didn't support ALL their wars, they would use seperate coloured poppies for different campaigns or put a statement on their charter or website.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 11:07:16 AM
WHAT THE POPPY MEANS

The poppy is

A symbol of Remembrance and hope
Worn by millions of people
Red because of the natural colour of field poppies
The poppy is NOT

A symbol of death or a sign of support for war
A reflection of politics or religion
Red to reflect the colour of blood
Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories. It is not compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those it helps – our beneficiaries: those currently serving in our Armed Forces, veterans, and their families and dependants.

From the British legion website on the Poppy
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 11, 2018, 12:03:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 11:07:16 AM
WHAT THE POPPY MEANS

The poppy is

A symbol of Remembrance and hope
Worn by millions of people
Red because of the natural colour of field poppies
The poppy is NOT

A symbol of death or a sign of support for war
A reflection of politics or religion
Red to reflect the colour of blood
Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories. It is not compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those it helps – our beneficiaries: those currently serving in our Armed Forces, veterans, and their families and dependants.

From the British legion website on the Poppy

""Beneficiaries: those currently serving in our Armed Forces, veterans, and their families and dependants".

I.e. Past and present - all wars in which the soldiers take part.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 11, 2018, 12:24:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 11:07:16 AM
WHAT THE POPPY MEANS

The poppy is

A symbol of Remembrance and hope
Worn by millions of people
Red because of the natural colour of field poppies
The poppy is NOT

A symbol of death or a sign of support for war
A reflection of politics or religion
Red to reflect the colour of blood
Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories. It is not compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those it helps – our beneficiaries: those currently serving in our Armed Forces, veterans, and their families and dependants.


From the British legion website on the Poppy
And it has evolved to something other than those words.
Even if our man on the street (Hardy) did not observe common wearing of the poppy, the poppy propaganda effect on the general population is more subtle and at the same time blatantly overt.
The wearing the poppy is visibly compulsory to tens of millions on television and personal choice is not respected,  perhaps personal choice not to wear is respected somewhat, after the non-wearer has been forced to come out and explain why they are so insensitive and  disrespectful to the sacrifice of soldiers.

Why is there no critique of the wars the British Army were and are involved in? no critique of the senseless slaughter of soldiers or of the (infinitely greater in magnitude) suffering  inflicted onto civilians.
That's not in the brief of the charity, they are non-political,  they say they don't have opinions on the mechanism of wars, the causes and effects of war.  they just support the soldiers. Nevertheless the poppy has become the overt symbol of the supporters of war/militarism/the imperialists and the jingoists.
And as if by deft, the soldiers are lauded as the heroes, and  it follows that criticism of the war is suppressed.
The citizen, tv presenter or football pundit, who may not support the war, is then actually supporting the war by the back door, by supporting the heroes.





Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Newbridge Exile on November 11, 2018, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2018, 03:24:13 PM
I've been here in England since Wed. Travelled from Sussex to Lancashire, attended a wedding and I have not yet seen one person wearing a poppy.
I was in Brentford and Central London on Wednesday past and saw a quite a few people with them on
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2018, 02:08:40 PM
Whats this remembrance day all about?

Fallen heroes, Brave soldiers? Not for me.

Remembrance day for me as an Irishman should be about the futility of war, how the poor were conned into this fight by their overlords. How Irish men though they were going on an adventure instead to be buried in muck and blood in a foreign war.

Do you know almost 3000 men died on the front between the war being over and the decision of politicians to wait until 11:11 to finish it. Did you ever hear anything so ridiculous.

The same breed of sc**bag politicians that oversaw WW1 are still at large, standing solemnly in respect while their armies arm those who would blow the shit out of Gaza, Yemen, Syria. Turns my stomach to look at the sniveling scumbags.

The only thing that should be on TV today is Black Adder Goes Forth to pull the mick out of the whole thing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2018, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 11, 2018, 12:24:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2018, 11:07:16 AM
WHAT THE POPPY MEANS

The poppy is

A symbol of Remembrance and hope
Worn by millions of people
Red because of the natural colour of field poppies
The poppy is NOT

A symbol of death or a sign of support for war
A reflection of politics or religion
Red to reflect the colour of blood
Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories. It is not compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those it helps – our beneficiaries: those currently serving in our Armed Forces, veterans, and their families and dependants.


From the British legion website on the Poppy
And it has evolved to something other than those words.
Even if our man on the street (Hardy) did not observe common wearing of the poppy, the poppy propaganda effect on the general population is more subtle and at the same time blatantly overt.
The wearing the poppy is visibly compulsory to tens of millions on television and personal choice is not respected,  perhaps personal choice not to wear is respected somewhat, after the non-wearer has been forced to come out and explain why they are so insensitive and  disrespectful to the sacrifice of soldiers.

Why is there no critique of the wars the British Army were and are involved in? no critique of the senseless slaughter of soldiers or of the (infinitely greater in magnitude) suffering  inflicted onto civilians.
That's not in the brief of the charity, they are non-political,  they say they don't have opinions on the mechanism of wars, the causes and effects of war.  they just support the soldiers. Nevertheless the poppy has become the overt symbol of the supporters of war/militarism/the imperialists and the jingoists.
And as if by deft, the soldiers are lauded as the heroes, and  it follows that criticism of the war is suppressed.
The citizen, tv presenter or football pundit, who may not support the war, is then actually supporting the war by the back door, by supporting the heroes.

Because the British empire/army are never in the wrong. Their actions here were disgusting beyond belief, but those involved are giving knighthoods and medals. It's always those pesky natives that are the bad guys/nuts/terrorists.

Some of the British government's/army's actions in the north are only coming out of the woodwork now. We are a first world country, we are not the likes of Afghanistan or Iraq. What have they done there that we will never hear about. The British people go on about our brave heroic lads, they do such a great job for us and our freedom. Really? What's heroic about invading another country and blowing the head off innocent civilians. Heroic my hole.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 11, 2018, 03:29:15 PM
Now they're complaining about a witch-hunt against their brave boys. They can stick their f**king poppy up their holes.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 11, 2018, 04:20:30 PM
Jesus all hot and bothered over a paper flower. See BR was wearing his proudly today in Livingston.Like the Scots we Irish have a conflicting relationship with the British Army, many like me had relatives killed in the WW's. i don't wear a poppy, but have no issue with people wearing it for the right reasons. Unfortunately in NI it has been hijacked by one community to ram their superiority down our throats. But as in the US it is organisations like the BL and Vets associations that look after soldiers who are cut a drift by government on leaving the army.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2018, 04:33:16 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2018, 04:20:30 PM
Jesus all hot and bothered over a paper flower. See BR was wearing his proudly today in Livingston.Like the Scots we Irish have a conflicting relationship with the British Army, many like me had relatives killed in the WW's. i don't wear a poppy, but have no issue with people wearing it for the right reasons. Unfortunately in NI it has been hijacked by one community to ram their superiority down our throats. But as in the US it is organisations like the BL and Vets associations that look after soldiers who are cut a drift by government on leaving the army.

I had relative in that army too that never came home but what are we remembering? These lads were duped into this army into this pointless fight. They are not heroes or villans,  they are victims. They fought for nothing when the army they joined turned it's guns on their country. I remember them as naieve fools who died for nothing. Certainly nothing to be glorifying
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2018, 05:05:20 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 11, 2018, 04:33:16 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2018, 04:20:30 PM
Jesus all hot and bothered over a paper flower. See BR was wearing his proudly today in Livingston.Like the Scots we Irish have a conflicting relationship with the British Army, many like me had relatives killed in the WW's. i don't wear a poppy, but have no issue with people wearing it for the right reasons. Unfortunately in NI it has been hijacked by one community to ram their superiority down our throats. But as in the US it is organisations like the BL and Vets associations that look after soldiers who are cut a drift by government on leaving the army.

I had relative in that army too that never came home but what are we remembering? These lads were duped into this army into this pointless fight. They are not heroes or villans,  they are victims. They fought for nothing when the army they joined turned it's guns on their country. I remember them as naieve fools who died for nothing. Certainly nothing to be glorifying

Yes I agree.

They don't put that spin on it though. No, these were brave men who sacrificed their lives for our freedom. Load of bollocks. In reality, both wars were a utterly disgusting disregard for human life. An absolute waste.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bennydorano on November 11, 2018, 06:06:45 PM
Yeah, I think the boul Adolf might have forced a few hands to be fair.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Insane Bolt on November 11, 2018, 06:28:11 PM
Many of those that served in the two world wars were conscripted and didn't have a choice. I know at 18 I might have been full of bravado....but truth be told I'd have shit myself in all probability if called up. Would all the Irish men on here answer the call....if Ireland went to war......or would they be claiming Britishness?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 11, 2018, 06:52:02 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 11, 2018, 06:28:11 PM
Many of those that served in the two world wars were conscripted and didn't have a choice. I know at 18 I might have been full of bravado....but truth be told I'd have shit myself in all probability if called up. Would all the Irish men on here answer the call....if Ireland went to war......or would they be claiming Britishness?

Remember in 1914-1918, life was generally pretty shit for the proletariat. What exactly had they to live for?

The chance of a regular meal, decent clothes and a bit of foreign travel would be quite appealing for unemployed laborers living in squalid conditions and earning next to nothing. Bottom line is that they were all exploited under the guise of british nationalism.

The poppy continues to celebrate that exploitation.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 12, 2018, 02:04:04 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 11, 2018, 06:28:11 PM
Many of those that served in the two world wars were conscripted and didn't have a choice. I know at 18 I might have been full of bravado....but truth be told I'd have shit myself in all probability if called up. Would all the Irish men on here answer the call....if Ireland went to war......or would they be claiming Britishness?

There was no conscription in Ireland. And considering Ireland, unlike the British, never had any desire to invade other countries, murder their people and exploit their resources, I'm trying to think of anyone who would want to go to war with Ireland.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2018, 09:21:22 AM
Quote from: red hander on November 12, 2018, 02:04:04 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 11, 2018, 06:28:11 PM
Many of those that served in the two world wars were conscripted and didn't have a choice. I know at 18 I might have been full of bravado....but truth be told I'd have shit myself in all probability if called up. Would all the Irish men on here answer the call....if Ireland went to war......or would they be claiming Britishness?

There was no conscription in Ireland. And considering Ireland, unlike the British, never had any desire to invade other countries, murder their people and exploit their resources, I'm trying to think of anyone who would want to go to war with Ireland.

You may have a few takers on that score. Especially with Ireland jumping into bed with Britain and others over recent "terrorist" activity.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2018, 09:22:56 AM
I was watching The Two Ronnies last night on UK Gold and they weren't wearing any. Clearly it doesn't force its presenters to wear the poppy
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dire Ear on November 12, 2018, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: Orior on November 11, 2018, 06:52:02 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 11, 2018, 06:28:11 PM
Many of those that served in the two world wars were conscripted and didn't have a choice. I know at 18 I might have been full of bravado....but truth be told I'd have shit myself in all probability if called up. Would all the Irish men on here answer the call....if Ireland went to war......or would they be claiming Britishness?

Remember in 1914-1918, life was generally pretty shit for the proletariat. What exactly had they to live for?

The chance of a regular meal, decent clothes and a bit of foreign travel would be quite appealing for unemployed laborers living in squalid conditions and earning next to nothing. Bottom line is that they were all exploited under the guise of british nationalism.

The poppy continues to celebrate that exploitation.
100%
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 12, 2018, 01:28:01 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 12, 2018, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: Orior on November 11, 2018, 06:52:02 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on November 11, 2018, 06:28:11 PM
Many of those that served in the two world wars were conscripted and didn't have a choice. I know at 18 I might have been full of bravado....but truth be told I'd have shit myself in all probability if called up. Would all the Irish men on here answer the call....if Ireland went to war......or would they be claiming Britishness?

Remember in 1914-1918, life was generally pretty shit for the proletariat. What exactly had they to live for?

The chance of a regular meal, decent clothes and a bit of foreign travel would be quite appealing for unemployed laborers living in squalid conditions and earning next to nothing. Bottom line is that they were all exploited under the guise of british nationalism.

The poppy continues to celebrate that exploitation.
100%
To an extent in the first year, but the the promise of adventure travel did not have much appeal after the first year of war. The average dim brit may be more susceptible to jingoism but there is a limit to even their stupidity.
Conscription had to be introduced in order to replenish the ranks and the vast majority of soldiers after the introduction had to conscripted in order to join.


Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hardy on November 14, 2018, 04:57:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 10, 2018, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2018, 03:24:13 PM
I've been here in England since Wed. Travelled from Sussex to Lancashire, attended a wedding and I have not yet seen one person wearing a poppy.

They have more sense maybe than the w**kers in their media maybe and louts at football matches.

Update:

On Armistice Day (Sunday) I only got out for a walk in the forest and a few pints in the pub. I didn't see more than a couple of dozen people. I'd say 60%+ were wearing the poppy.

On Monday I saw thousands of people - in the town and in Gatwick. Didn't notice any poppies.

Small sample size but my conclusion - on the whole, the English person in the street wears the poppy on the day only.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2018, 06:04:54 PM
There was an article in the FT a few years ago that pointed out that wars are a very good way of dealing with excess capacity in the economy. Everything gets destroyed and then stuff has to be rebuilt and economic growth restarts.
And I thought it was the most hideous logic. Because people die for SFA.
In March 1945 Americans And French and British soldiers were bombing the shit out of Germany and Japan . Shortly after Germany and Japan were allies.

The Brits have a military culture and can be jingoed up into supporting any carnage but war is about allocating losses. Why  should any family suffer?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: MoChara on November 15, 2018, 08:38:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2018, 06:04:54 PM
There was an article in the FT a few years ago that pointed out that wars are a very good way of dealing with excess capacity in the economy. Everything gets destroyed and then stuff has to be rebuilt and economic growth restarts.
And I thought it was the most hideous logic. Because people die for SFA.
In March 1945 Americans And French and British soldiers were bombing the shit out of Germany and Japan . Shortly after Germany and Japan were allies.

The Brits have a military culture and can be jingoed up into supporting any carnage but war is about allocating losses. Why  should any family suffer?

Its as they say War is a game Rich men play with poor mens lives.

Interesting take that the only reason for social housing and the start of the benefit state was to provide a more robust working class better fit to soldier.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2018, 07:48:49 PM
Any Poppies at tonight's match?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 15, 2018, 11:14:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2018, 07:48:49 PM
Any Poppies at tonight's match?

Seen a poppy on a Norn Iron fleg. McClean wasn't wearing one, but he did have a Norn Iron fleg on his shirt.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 16, 2018, 09:47:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2018, 11:14:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2018, 07:48:49 PM
Any Poppies at tonight's match?

Seen a poppy on a Norn Iron fleg. McClean wasn't wearing one, but he did have a Norn Iron fleg on his shirt.

There was a balaclava in a tricolour according to Seamie B... turns out it was a Munster badge ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 16, 2018, 10:07:28 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 16, 2018, 09:47:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 15, 2018, 11:14:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2018, 07:48:49 PM
Any Poppies at tonight's match?

Seen a poppy on a Norn Iron fleg. McClean wasn't wearing one, but he did have a Norn Iron fleg on his shirt.

There was a balaclava in a tricolour according to Seamie B... turns out it was a Munster badge ;D
He's an absolute tit.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 29, 2018, 07:19:03 PM
Derry and Strabane council introduce a policy allowing staff to wear the Easter lily and the Poppy.

Well, what do you think of that?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: markl121 on October 10, 2019, 06:06:48 AM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
What's the story with poppys in the south? Saw two people wearing them this time last year and was taken aback. Didn't think anyone wore them. Both were fairly old people.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 10, 2019, 02:30:44 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....

That's so nobody would miss it. And they wonder why nationalists find it offensive?!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on October 10, 2019, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
Some people wear them all year round..was in Belfast city hall last year during the summer and one of the security guards was wearing one  ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2019, 09:13:58 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 10, 2019, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
Some people wear them all year round..was in Belfast city hall last year during the summer and one of the security guards was wearing one  ::)

That's cause he knew it would piss you off..
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 10, 2019, 09:36:20 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
He can stick his jersey, poppy and all, up his jacksie now.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on October 10, 2019, 10:47:43 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 10, 2019, 09:36:20 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
He can stick his jersey, poppy and all, up his jacksie now.

What are you trying to say? lol

(Rhetorical)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on October 13, 2019, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: markl121 on October 10, 2019, 06:06:48 AM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
What's the story with poppys in the south? Saw two people wearing them this time last year and was taken aback. Didn't think anyone wore them. Both were fairly old people.

I've never seen anyone wear one in the south but maybe the west brit D4s would have a few candidates that would wear them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: straightred on October 13, 2019, 10:02:13 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 13, 2019, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: markl121 on October 10, 2019, 06:06:48 AM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
What's the story with poppys in the south? Saw two people wearing them this time last year and was taken aback. Didn't think anyone wore them. Both were fairly old people.

I've never seen anyone wear one in the south but maybe the west brit D4s would have a few candidates that would wear them.

Had lunch in the Hillgrove in Monaghan a good few years ago and saw a couple wearing them. Got my attention as i wouldn't have expected it there. Not unusual to see the odd one around Dublin
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Boycey on October 13, 2019, 11:30:25 AM
I have occasionally seen locals going into Sunday Service with Poppy's on but the only one I've seen in the wild as such in Monaghan was at Castle Leslie outside Monaghan Town last year or year before.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tubberman on October 13, 2019, 11:58:59 AM
Quote from: straightred on October 13, 2019, 10:02:13 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 13, 2019, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: markl121 on October 10, 2019, 06:06:48 AM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
What's the story with poppys in the south? Saw two people wearing them this time last year and was taken aback. Didn't think anyone wore them. Both were fairly old people.

I've never seen anyone wear one in the south but maybe the west brit D4s would have a few candidates that would wear them.

Had lunch in the Hillgrove in Monaghan a good few years ago and saw a couple wearing them. Got my attention as i wouldn't have expected it there. Not unusual to see the odd one around Dublin

I've never seen anyone wear one in Dublin
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on October 13, 2019, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: straightred on October 13, 2019, 10:02:13 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 13, 2019, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: markl121 on October 10, 2019, 06:06:48 AM
Quote from: Boycey on October 10, 2019, 01:50:18 AM
I saw my 1st poppy of the year today, in Dublin Airport of all places. The whole of Norn Iron seemed to be there on route to Amsterdam for tomoro nights game. Plenty of tops etc but one guy had a jersey with the biggest poppy I ever seen emblazoned on the front of it....
What's the story with poppys in the south? Saw two people wearing them this time last year and was taken aback. Didn't think anyone wore them. Both were fairly old people.

I've never seen anyone wear one in the south but maybe the west brit D4s would have a few candidates that would wear them.

Had lunch in the Hillgrove in Monaghan a good few years ago and saw a couple wearing them. Got my attention as i wouldn't have expected it there. Not unusual to see the odd one around Dublin
Naive

Brave people  ;D I was in Frames in Belfast one lunchtime when a guy walked in wearing an England shirt. Was just when tourism was taking off, and fella was obviously non the wiser. After the silence was broken couple of locals went up and shook his hand for being the ballsiest man in Belfast that day.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on October 13, 2019, 10:26:41 PM
Poppy brooch advert popping up in my Facebook feed.

Have already penned a strongly worded email to Zuckerberg.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 26, 2019, 11:12:03 PM
I'd imagine the annual James McClean abuse will start next week, with the wearing of the poppy on shirts.

There is now protocol surrounding racial abuse when it comes from the terraces. I wonder if the Stoke players have been advised to walk off the pitch, when the anti-Irish abuse is directed at McClean?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 26, 2019, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 26, 2019, 11:12:03 PM
I'd imagine the annual James McClean abuse will start next week, with the wearing of the poppy on shirts.

There is now protocol surrounding racial abuse when it comes from the terraces. I wonder if the Stoke players have been advised to walk off the pitch, when the anti-Irish abuse is directed at McClean?

Will they fook lol. The hypocrisy from the FA and the players was ridiculous. Don't remember anyone in the FA getting the sack over the English fans behaviour. The Bulgaria chief got his marching orders pretty swift though
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: playwiththewind1st on October 27, 2019, 01:02:48 PM
It's as well communism has gone. In the old days, he'd just have been shot.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 27, 2019, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 13, 2019, 10:26:41 PM
Poppy brooch advert popping up in my Facebook feed.

Have already penned a strongly worded email to Zuckerberg.
So have I. They have these dual poppy and football club badges but when I i enquires about an Armagh one they didn't have any. I think they do have Londonderry ones so Joe Brolly should be happy enough
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 27, 2019, 06:26:14 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 13, 2019, 11:30:25 AM
I have occasionally seen locals going into Sunday Service with Poppy's on but the only one I've seen in the wild as such in Monaghan was at Castle Leslie outside Monaghan Town last year or year before.

The local Church of Ireland members wear them at their services on Remembrance Sunday. Mind you, I saw one being worn at Mass a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2019, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 26, 2019, 11:12:03 PM
I'd imagine the annual James McClean abuse will start next week, with the wearing of the poppy on shirts.

There is now protocol surrounding racial abuse when it comes from the terraces. I wonder if the Stoke players have been advised to walk off the pitch, when the anti-Irish abuse is directed at McClean?

McClean would probably need to get onto the pitch in the first place before beginning to worry about any abuse coming his way.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ambrose on October 27, 2019, 10:12:16 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 13, 2019, 10:26:41 PM
Poppy brooch advert popping up in my Facebook feed.

Have already penned a strongly worded email to Zuckerberg.

Did you buy one for Roy?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EH57k1IWoAAEseF?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on October 27, 2019, 10:18:05 PM
What's your beef with me Ambrose?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ambrose on October 27, 2019, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 27, 2019, 10:18:05 PM
What's your beef with me Ambrose?

I have no beef with you or any other member of the LGBTQ community.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on October 27, 2019, 11:02:08 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on October 27, 2019, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 27, 2019, 10:18:05 PM
What's your beef with me Ambrose?

I have no beef with you or any other member of the LGBTQ community.

That's the nicest love letter I have received this year xx
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: clarshack on October 28, 2019, 01:56:06 PM
Anyone see the cannon being fired at Ibrox yesterday. Like seriously WTF!
What on earth will be next?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Harold Disgracey on October 31, 2019, 11:30:11 PM
Mairead McGuinness wearing one on Question Time.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2019, 11:54:43 PM
I'd have expected better from her >:(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 01, 2019, 10:25:15 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2019, 11:54:43 PM
I'd have expected better from her >:(

Doesn't surprise me - FG are wanna be Brits.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bogball88 on November 01, 2019, 10:41:52 AM
Was one of those poppies with a shamrock on it
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 01, 2019, 10:56:30 AM
Quote from: bogball88 on November 01, 2019, 10:41:52 AM
Was one of those poppies with a shamrock on it

Is that to represent Irish soldiers who fought?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Owenmoresider on November 01, 2019, 10:58:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 01, 2019, 10:25:15 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2019, 11:54:43 PM
I'd have expected better from her >:(

Doesn't surprise me - FG are wanna be Brits.
That smug p***k Richmond was wearing one on some BBCNI show the other night too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 01, 2019, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2019, 11:54:43 PM
I'd have expected better from her >:(

You would?? Id expect nothing from a pig but grunts.

Outside of the poppy, the voting against helping refugees in the Mediterranean was disgusting.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 01, 2019, 12:57:54 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 01, 2019, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2019, 11:54:43 PM
I'd have expected better from her >:(

You would?? Id expect nothing from a pig but grunts.

Outside of the poppy, the voting against helping refugees in the Mediterranean was disgusting.

Yeah, that was a disgrace.  Very bad form and should be brought up on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 01, 2019, 09:35:43 PM
G lads u get rattled over very little.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 01, 2019, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 01, 2019, 09:35:43 PM
G lads u get rattled over very little.

Are you talking about the vote in Europe or the poppy?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 02, 2019, 05:27:23 AM
As regards the Shamrock Poppy, it is different from the normal poppy on that it just remembers the Irish soldiers who fought in WW1 and the monies raised stay in Ireland. While I wouldn't wear one myself I think it's important to remember that many Irishmen, encouraged by people like John Redmond, fought in WW1 on the understanding that Ireland would get Home Rule as a result. I can understand why some would want to recognise their sacrifice.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Armagh18 on November 02, 2019, 07:50:49 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 02, 2019, 05:27:23 AM
As regards the Shamrock Poppy, it is different from the normal poppy on that it just remembers the Irish soldiers who fought in WW1 and the monies raised stay in Ireland. While I wouldn't wear one myself I think it's important to remember that many Irishmen, encouraged by people like John Redmond, fought in WW1 on the understanding that Ireland would get Home Rule as a result. I can understand why some would want to recognise their sacrifice.
Poor fellas duped by the Brits and sent to be cannon fodder. Not unlike the ordinary Brits who died in WW1 as well.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2019, 09:48:06 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2019, 07:50:49 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 02, 2019, 05:27:23 AM
As regards the Shamrock Poppy, it is different from the normal poppy on that it just remembers the Irish soldiers who fought in WW1 and the monies raised stay in Ireland. While I wouldn't wear one myself I think it's important to remember that many Irishmen, encouraged by people like John Redmond, fought in WW1 on the understanding that Ireland would get Home Rule as a result. I can understand why some would want to recognise their sacrifice.
Poor fellas duped by the Brits and sent to be cannon fodder. Not unlike the ordinary Brits who died in WW1 as well.

Totally agree.  Also, it's not like the Brits to go back on their word, is it?

I actually think WW1 in particular was designed as one big cull of the population. The war to end all wars, eh? Whatever.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 02, 2019, 09:53:21 AM
The average English Tommy was no different from the Irish men that fought in WW1. All sold a lie by the powers that be and all used as a human sacrifice to determine a battle of royalty in middle Europe. All working class and lower in the eyes of the upper echelons so all dispensable.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: RedHand88 on November 02, 2019, 12:08:16 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/MPmn0hN/20191031-162400.jpg)

Kings cross station, London
Do i get a prize?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2019, 02:05:26 PM
No poppy on Kevin Kilbane earlier on Focus.

Expect to hear about it on Nolan come Monday morning.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 02, 2019, 06:43:07 PM
Were all the Irish league players wearing them today in the occupied six?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 03, 2019, 11:23:00 AM
Interesting to note Derryman Shane Duffy wearing one on his Brighton shirt yesterday.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2019, 12:37:56 PM
I presume most of those soccerballers pull on the Jersey and couldn't care less what's on it once they continue to be paid 3 or 4 years wages every week.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 03, 2019, 01:39:21 PM
w**k Mitchell on UTV... as usual. Tosspot
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 03, 2019, 03:46:57 PM
Youse have little to do if you worried about who's wearing a poppy. Abit like the poppy police in reverse.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fearsiuil on November 03, 2019, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2019, 02:05:26 PM
No poppy on Kevin Kilbane earlier on Focus.

Expect to hear about it on Nolan come Monday morning.
Fair play KK.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 03, 2019, 05:06:51 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2019, 01:39:21 PM
w**k Mitchell on UTV... as usual. Tosspot

Well, that's Burren for ya, lol
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 03, 2019, 05:10:35 PM
See that craven lickspittle Feargal Sharkey was at Buckingham Palace to pick up his OBE over weekend. Any wonder the rest of them couldn't stand him.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fearsiuil on November 03, 2019, 05:13:56 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2019, 05:10:35 PM
See that craven lickspittle Feargal Sharkey was at Buckingham Palace to pick up his OBE over weekend. Any wonder the rest of them couldn't stand him.
A good heart these days is hard to find.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 03, 2019, 06:31:31 PM
Quote from: fearsiuil on November 03, 2019, 05:13:56 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2019, 05:10:35 PM
See that craven lickspittle Feargal Sharkey was at Buckingham Palace to pick up his OBE over weekend. Any wonder the rest of them couldn't stand him.
A good heart these days is hard to find.

Mis-heard lyrics "A good f art these days is hard to find"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: From the Bunker on November 03, 2019, 11:15:02 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2019, 06:31:31 PM
Quote from: fearsiuil on November 03, 2019, 05:13:56 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2019, 05:10:35 PM
See that craven lickspittle Feargal Sharkey was at Buckingham Palace to pick up his OBE over weekend. Any wonder the rest of them couldn't stand him.
A good heart these days is hard to find.

Mis-heard lyrics "A good f art these days is hard to find"

''My expectations may be high, I blame it on my youth
Soon enough I'll learn the painful truth''
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 03, 2019, 11:46:25 PM
Quote from: fearsiuil on November 03, 2019, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2019, 02:05:26 PM
No poppy on Kevin Kilbane earlier on Focus.

Expect to hear about it on Nolan come Monday morning.
Fair play KK.

Same again on MOTD 2. Gregory Campbell will have his alarm set in the morning to ring Big Nolan.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 04, 2019, 11:43:50 PM
Seems the Shamrock Rovers Goalkeeper refused to face the Tricolour during Amhrán na bhFiann at the Soccerball Final yesterday?!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 05, 2019, 08:13:25 AM
Fair play to him.  The prevailing attitude as far as I can see is "who gives a fcuk".

Although the Bel Tel have definitely tried their level best to manufacture a row out of it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haranguerer on November 05, 2019, 08:25:21 AM
Course they have, in an attempt to draw a false equivalence. Such a bigoted rag
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnnycool on November 05, 2019, 11:32:14 AM
https://www.football365.com/news/football-needs-to-take-a-stand-against-those-poppy-ccks (https://www.football365.com/news/football-needs-to-take-a-stand-against-those-poppy-ccks)

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 05, 2019, 01:03:12 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 05, 2019, 08:25:21 AM
Course they have, in an attempt to draw a false equivalence. Such a bigoted rag

I dont think its a false equivalence. You support McLean dropping his head, you cant criticise Mannus standing respectfully.

But the Telegraph seems to be contriving a story where none exists. The south seems to he far more mature, as if thats news.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 05, 2019, 01:05:01 PM
Indeed. Living in the 21st Century as opposed to the 17th helps.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: haranguerer on November 05, 2019, 02:16:58 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 05, 2019, 01:03:12 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 05, 2019, 08:25:21 AM
Course they have, in an attempt to draw a false equivalence. Such a bigoted rag

I dont think its a false equivalence. You support McLean dropping his head, you cant criticise Mannus standing respectfully.

But the Telegraph seems to be contriving a story where none exists. The south seems to he far more mature, as if thats news.

Its the Belfast Telegraph - it isn't reporting a story, its trying to create one. Its aimed at trying to get a reaction from northern nationalists.

Also, Alan Mannus deserves no criticism - he is entitled to do whatever he wants (within reason), as is anyone in a similar situation, more power to them. However, drawing parallells with James McClean (which is the point of the story) is a false equivalence, and will be until the Irish army act in Larne similarly to how the British army acted in Derry.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trailer on November 05, 2019, 03:12:02 PM
I think everyone should respect all anthems and flags no matter what. The Tri-Colour is the flag of an independent and sovereign nation. He should respect it.
The question is did he disrespect it by not turning towards it? Probable not IMO.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Taylor on November 05, 2019, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 05, 2019, 03:12:02 PM
I think everyone should respect all anthems and flags no matter what. The Tri-Colour is the flag of an independent and sovereign nation. He should respect it.
The question is did he disrespect it by not turning towards it? Probable not IMO.

Nonsense - people should be entitled to do as they please.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2019, 03:37:16 PM
When two teams are lined up before an international match, one team usually faces their flag for the anthem, while the other doesn't. Are the whole other team not disrespecting their opponents flag then?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 05, 2019, 03:42:49 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 05, 2019, 02:16:58 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 05, 2019, 01:03:12 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 05, 2019, 08:25:21 AM
Course they have, in an attempt to draw a false equivalence. Such a bigoted rag

I dont think its a false equivalence. You support McLean dropping his head, you cant criticise Mannus standing respectfully.

But the Telegraph seems to be contriving a story where none exists. The south seems to he far more mature, as if thats news.

Its the Belfast Telegraph - it isn't reporting a story, its trying to create one. Its aimed at trying to get a reaction from northern nationalists.

Also, Alan Mannus deserves no criticism - he is entitled to do whatever he wants (within reason), as is anyone in a similar situation, more power to them. However, drawing parallells with James McClean (which is the point of the story) is a false equivalence, and will be until the Irish army act in Larne similarly to how the British army acted in Derry.
There is an equivalent in so far as supporting the right works both ways.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lurganblue on November 05, 2019, 03:42:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 05, 2019, 03:12:02 PM
I think everyone should respect all anthems and flags no matter what. The Tri-Colour is the flag of an independent and sovereign nation. He should respect it.
The question is did he disrespect it by not turning towards it? Probable not IMO.

I'd agree with that.  I don't get the outrage here (or the manufactured outrage).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 05, 2019, 03:45:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 05, 2019, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 05, 2019, 03:12:02 PM
I think everyone should respect all anthems and flags no matter what. The Tri-Colour is the flag of an independent and sovereign nation. He should respect it.
The question is did he disrespect it by not turning towards it? Probable not IMO.

Nonsense - people should be entitled to do as they please.

I think his point is that Mannus didn't disrespect the tricolour or anthem. He stood there, arms by side. If he bowed his head or had a stretch, different debate. I'm sure the Rovers fans would be quick to call him out if he was disrespectful
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 05, 2019, 03:47:10 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 05, 2019, 03:42:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 05, 2019, 03:12:02 PM
I think everyone should respect all anthems and flags no matter what. The Tri-Colour is the flag of an independent and sovereign nation. He should respect it.
The question is did he disrespect it by not turning towards it? Probable not IMO.

I'd agree with that.  I don't get the outrage here (or the manufactured outrage).

Its terrible journalism. Take online comment from people with nothing to do with the event as 'a row' and present as a controversy to try and point to hypocrisy that doesn't really exist. The 'story' is actually about McClean

All they have done is prove the south is a far more tolerant place
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 05, 2019, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 05, 2019, 03:42:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 05, 2019, 03:12:02 PM
I think everyone should respect all anthems and flags no matter what. The Tri-Colour is the flag of an independent and sovereign nation. He should respect it.
The question is did he disrespect it by not turning towards it? Probable not IMO.

I'd agree with that.  I don't get the outrage here (or the manufactured outrage).
The purpose of this story in the BT is to have a go at McClean by proxy. Manus did nothing that I would consider insulting to the flag or anthem.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 05, 2019, 04:05:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 05, 2019, 03:12:02 PM
I think everyone should respect all anthems and flags no matter what. The Tri-Colour is the flag of an independent and sovereign nation. He should respect it.
The question is did he disrespect it by not turning towards it? Probable not IMO.

Standing still while the anthem completed, whether facing the flag or not, is a fair improvement on how a lot of GAA teams respect the anthem.

I have observed inter-county teams at high profile games jumping up and down, stretching, spitting, clearing their noses, even picking their shorts out of their arse during the anthem and no one made a fuss out it.

Not a single incident, not matter how innocuous will escape a twitter tirade.  The Telegraph trying to create some klnd of story out of that doesn't deserve to be considered journalism.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 05, 2019, 05:16:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2019, 01:05:01 PM
Indeed. Living in the 21st Century as opposed to the 17th helps.
Says the man bringing it up for discussion on the forum...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 05, 2019, 05:33:36 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 05, 2019, 05:16:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2019, 01:05:01 PM
Indeed. Living in the 21st Century as opposed to the 17th helps.
Says the man bringing it up for discussion on the forum...

Mannus is entitled to do what he wants and I respect him for it. He is unlikely to be a bigot or anti-Irish given that he plays for Rovers .
I think the reaction has been muted , as Most of us Irish aren't insecure about our identity and welcome diversity . Is it possible that Mannus made a judgement call that it was easier to risk upsetting Irish people ,than some NI loyalists for example, who have a history of intolerance and threats for those who are seen to go against their "DUP view" of the world cf Neil Lennon, James McClean, Steve Aitken.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 05, 2019, 05:38:15 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 05, 2019, 05:33:36 PM
Is it possible that Mannus made a judgement call that it was easier to risk upsetting Irish people ,than some NI loyalists for example, who have a history of intolerance for those who are seen to go against their DUP view of the world cf Neil Lennon, James McClean, Steve Aitken

Yerra, were there that many watching the formalities of the FAI Cup final in the hope of catching some outrage?

Time to move on and persecute people about poppies or lack of them.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 05, 2019, 06:10:16 PM
https://twitter.com/pajoflynn/status/1191289981521842176?s=19
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 05, 2019, 06:16:49 PM
So am I the only one thinks Mannus is a bit of a Cnut?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 05, 2019, 06:18:46 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2019, 06:16:49 PM
So am I the only one thinks Mannus is a bit of a Cnut?
Looks like it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 05, 2019, 07:41:51 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2019, 06:16:49 PM
So am I the only one thinks Mannus is a bit of a Cnut?

There was a piece in the BELFAST telegraph on it, but it didn't say why he did it. All very strange.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: MK on November 05, 2019, 07:50:49 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 05, 2019, 07:41:51 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2019, 06:16:49 PM
So am I the only one thinks Mannus is a bit of a Cnut?

There was a piece in the BELFAST telegraph on it, but it didn't say why he did it. All very strange.

This is his explanation:


https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/im-so-devastated-that-this-happened-shamrock-rovers-hero-alan-mannus-explains-irish-flag-move-38662304.html

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 05, 2019, 08:05:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2019, 06:16:49 PM
So am I the only one thinks Mannus is a bit of a Cnut?
No, I'm with you on that one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: imtommygunn on November 05, 2019, 09:06:31 PM
Paywall. What is his explanation?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2019, 09:17:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 05, 2019, 09:06:31 PM
Paywall. What is his explanation?
Wasn't really sure what to do.

"When it's not your country's anthem you normally just stand there and let it play. When everyone turned I didn't know what to do. I was thinking 'if I'm not Irish do I turn?' so I thought I'd just stand the way I was originally facing which I didn't feel was being disrespectful.

"Looking back now I guess my actions could be taken in a negative way and I take responsibility. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if I could do again I would do things differently next time."

The 37-year-old, who was born in Canada before moving to Northern Ireland with his family when he was seven, told the Belfast Telegraph that he was sorry to anyone who saw his actions as being offensive or disrespectful.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: laoislad on November 05, 2019, 09:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2019, 09:17:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 05, 2019, 09:06:31 PM
Paywall. What is his explanation?
Wasn't really sure what to do.

"When it's not your country's anthem you normally just stand there and let it play. When everyone turned I didn't know what to do. I was thinking 'if I'm not Irish do I turn?' so I thought I'd just stand the way I was originally facing which I didn't feel was being disrespectful.

"Looking back now I guess my actions could be taken in a negative way and I take responsibility. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if I could do again I would do things differently next time."

The 37-year-old, who was born in Canada before moving to Northern Ireland with his family when he was seven, told the Belfast Telegraph that he was sorry to anyone who saw his actions as being offensive or disrespectful.
Fair enough imo, though I wasn't offended by it in the first place anyway.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: imtommygunn on November 05, 2019, 09:22:12 PM
Neither was I. I was just wondering what he was at.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2019, 10:55:35 PM
Quote from: laoislad on November 05, 2019, 09:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2019, 09:17:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 05, 2019, 09:06:31 PM
Paywall. What is his explanation?
Wasn't really sure what to do.

"When it's not your country's anthem you normally just stand there and let it play. When everyone turned I didn't know what to do. I was thinking 'if I'm not Irish do I turn?' so I thought I'd just stand the way I was originally facing which I didn't feel was being disrespectful.

"Looking back now I guess my actions could be taken in a negative way and I take responsibility. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if I could do again I would do things differently next time."

The 37-year-old, who was born in Canada before moving to Northern Ireland with his family when he was seven, told the Belfast Telegraph that he was sorry to anyone who saw his actions as being offensive or disrespectful.
Fair enough imo, though I wasn't offended by it in the first place anyway.
+1.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 05, 2019, 11:21:52 PM
I wasn't offended either but I still think he was a cnut. In terms of comparison with McClean it's not the same as the poppy thing but if McClean was to snub the Union Jack at a match in England I'd think he was a cnut too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 06:04:54 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 05, 2019, 11:21:52 PM
I wasn't offended either but I still think he was a cnut. In terms of comparison with McClean it's not the same as the poppy thing but if McClean was to snub the Union Jack at a match in England I'd think he was a cnut too.

The equivalence being drawn isn't with McClean and the poppy - McClean did the exact same thing in a pre-season match for West Brom a few years ago while GSTQ was playing, albeit I think it was in the US or Canada. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion/11750741/James-McCleans-snub-to-Englands-flag-was-disgraceful-if-he-hates-it-so-much-he-should-leave-the-Premier-League.html)

The only difference is general Lee thinks McClean is right to do it is because he's one of us and Mannus isn't because he's one of themmuns. Saying "yeah but us/McClean are the oppressed and Mannus' dude are three oppressors makes it different, so we're right" is absolute nonsense.

Maybe Mannus is privately outraged about all the times the gardai helped the Ra out over the years by facilitating murder of members of his community and continue to cover things up to this day. Would it be ok then?

Anyone outraged by this needs to have a word with themselves.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 09:34:43 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 06:04:54 AM
The only difference is general Lee thinks McClean is right to do it is because he's one of us and Mannus isn't because he's one of themmuns. Saying "yeah but us/McClean are the oppressed and Mannus' dude are three oppressors makes it different, so we're right" is absolute nonsense.
Didn't realise I had my own spokesman! I don't ever remember supporting McClean for him doing that, but I guess you think cliftonville are wrong for not standing to attention for GSTQ? Just curious like.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 06, 2019, 09:59:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 09:34:43 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 06:04:54 AM
The only difference is general Lee thinks McClean is right to do it is because he's one of us and Mannus isn't because he's one of themmuns. Saying "yeah but us/McClean are the oppressed and Mannus' dude are three oppressors makes it different, so we're right" is absolute nonsense.
Didn't realise I had my own spokesman! I don't ever remember supporting McClean for him doing that, but I guess you think cliftonville are wrong for not standing to attention for GSTQ? Just curious like.

Nobody can  e stupid enough to support McClean/Cliftonville and criticise Mannus for doing less. Its not possible to be that dense.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 06, 2019, 09:59:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 09:34:43 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 06:04:54 AM
The only difference is general Lee thinks McClean is right to do it is because he's one of us and Mannus isn't because he's one of themmuns. Saying "yeah but us/McClean are the oppressed and Mannus' dude are three oppressors makes it different, so we're right" is absolute nonsense.
Didn't realise I had my own spokesman! I don't ever remember supporting McClean for him doing that, but I guess you think cliftonville are wrong for not standing to attention for GSTQ? Just curious like.

Nobody can  e stupid enough to support McClean/Cliftonville and criticise Mannus for doing less. Its not possible to be that dense.
Yet McClean did get criticised, as did Cliftonville, whereas Mannus is somehow exempt.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 10:59:18 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 09:34:43 AM
I don't ever remember supporting McClean for him doing that

This was your original post on the matter in another thread:

QuoteFirst off, if Alan Mannus wants to be a **** he is well within his rights. We have seen previously he lacks class so no surprise here with his behaviour - just confirmation of the type of person he is. Just baffled what exactly has the Irish flag and anthem done to annoy him so much? Last time I check Ireland didn't invade/pillage/colonise/partition/occupy any part of Britain?

Now James Mcclean, and the west Brits don't seem to understand this, comes from a part of Ireland still under British occupation. So he does to a certain extent have some grievance with the English national anthem and Union Jack. While I personally would not have did what he did I certainly don't condemn him and it's quite a different scenario to Alan Annus

Pretty cut and dry. It's fine for McClean to do it because he has a grievance. Mannus is a **** because, to you, he has no legitimate grievance. What say you?

Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 09:34:43 AM
I guess you think cliftonville are wrong for not standing to attention for GSTQ? Just curious like.

Why on earth would you guess that?

Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 10:36:13 AM
Yet McClean did get criticised, as did Cliftonville, whereas Mannus is somehow exempt.

This is the whole f**king point. McClean got criticised, by a bunch of twats, and the vast majority of us here would disagree with that criticism. People who are saying Mannus is "exempt" from criticism would also apply that same exemption to McClean.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Mannus and Cliftonville both deserve to be criticised.

James McClean is a separate issue.

Just stand for the anthem like a normal human being. Sport is full of athletes standing in respect of other anthems why make a big deal of it??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Mannus and Cliftonville both deserve to be criticised.

James McClean is a separate issue.

Just stand for the anthem like a normal human being. Sport is full of athletes standing in respect of other anthems why make a big deal of it??

How?! He did literally the exact same thing as Mannus.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 11:38:57 AM
f**k me gallsman. Not condemning someone doesn't mean you support them. I know *why* McClean, a ra-head from the Creggan does the stuff he does. I understand the mindset, I share a lot of his views, just maybe not as explicitly. Seems you did at the the time too:
Quote from: gallsman on July 19, 2015, 01:56:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 19, 2015, 01:39:24 PM
Stand as the rest did, normal,  None of the players sang it or put hand heart ... Most ain't English either. Make a proper statement by refusing to play for the English teams.... That would really put them in their place.... No wait...

The variable there is that (I assume) most of the others come from countries where the Brits didn't shoot civilians for fun.

On the other hand I don't buy Alan Mannus, ex Rangers/Linfield/NI player saying he wasn't sure of the protocol, in fact I think he was taking the piss with his subsequent interview on the matter. He can't be as stupid as he's trying to let on
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 11:46:10 AM
To be clear here, as you simply aren't getting this, I have absolutely no issue with McClean's actions whatsoever. Similarly I have absolutely no issue with Mannus doing the exact same thing.

Regardless of whether you buy Mannus' story or not, you have named him a **** for his actions. Those actions are the exact same as McClean's whose mindset and views you understand and share. The ONLY difference between them is that Mannus is from the other side of the fence.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:46:48 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Mannus and Cliftonville both deserve to be criticised.

James McClean is a separate issue.

Just stand for the anthem like a normal human being. Sport is full of athletes standing in respect of other anthems why make a big deal of it??

How?! He did literally the exact same thing as Mannus.

Sorry I couldn't be arsed to look back through the last few pages I thought the poppy issue was being linked to bowing heads for an anthem.

Nobody should be bowing their head for an anthem just stand there and say nothing if you do anything else you're bringing the attention on yourself. Plenty of British lads have played for Ireland and stood through Amhran na bhFiann without a problem it's not that difficult and standing to show respect is not the same as supporting the country's military actions!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 06, 2019, 12:03:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:46:48 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Mannus and Cliftonville both deserve to be criticised.

James McClean is a separate issue.

Just stand for the anthem like a normal human being. Sport is full of athletes standing in respect of other anthems why make a big deal of it??

How?! He did literally the exact same thing as Mannus.

Sorry I couldn't be arsed to look back through the last few pages I thought the poppy issue was being linked to bowing heads for an anthem.

Nobody should be bowing their head for an anthem just stand there and say nothing if you do anything else you're bringing the attention on yourself. Plenty of British lads have played for Ireland and stood through Amhran na bhFiann without a problem it's not that difficult and standing to show respect is not the same as supporting the country's military actions!

You do know he did exactly that - stood through the anthem...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 06, 2019, 12:04:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 06, 2019, 09:59:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 09:34:43 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 06:04:54 AM
The only difference is general Lee thinks McClean is right to do it is because he's one of us and Mannus isn't because he's one of themmuns. Saying "yeah but us/McClean are the oppressed and Mannus' dude are three oppressors makes it different, so we're right" is absolute nonsense.
Didn't realise I had my own spokesman! I don't ever remember supporting McClean for him doing that, but I guess you think cliftonville are wrong for not standing to attention for GSTQ? Just curious like.

Nobody can  e stupid enough to support McClean/Cliftonville and criticise Mannus for doing less. Its not possible to be that dense.
Yet McClean did get criticised, as did Cliftonville, whereas Mannus is somehow exempt.

By you?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: general_lee on November 06, 2019, 01:17:38 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 11:46:10 AM
To be clear here, as you simply aren't getting this, I have absolutely no issue with McClean's actions whatsoever. Similarly I have absolutely no issue with Mannus doing the exact same thing.

Regardless of whether you buy Mannus' story or not, you have named him a **** for his actions. Those actions are the exact same as McClean's whose mindset and views you understand and share. The ONLY difference between them is that Mannus is from the other side of the fence.
Nope it's not the only difference and I stand by me calling him a ****. If he came out and said "look, I'm not entirely comfortable with the tricolour and anthem, I'm from a unionist background etc etc I didn't set out to offend anyone" then yeah I'd accept it at face value, but he didn't, he had some watery excuse about not knowing what to do  ::) I'm not sure James McClean would come up with the same waffle about being "devastated"; he'd probably just give an honest answer.

And fwiw I think both would have been better off just swallowing their pride and facing the flag for the sake of a minute or two and no one would batt an eyelid
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 06, 2019, 01:25:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:46:48 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Mannus and Cliftonville both deserve to be criticised.

James McClean is a separate issue.

Just stand for the anthem like a normal human being. Sport is full of athletes standing in respect of other anthems why make a big deal of it??

How?! He did literally the exact same thing as Mannus.

Sorry I couldn't be arsed to look back through the last few pages I thought the poppy issue was being linked to bowing heads for an anthem.

Nobody should be bowing their head for an anthem just stand there and say nothing if you do anything else you're bringing the attention on yourself. Plenty of British lads have played for Ireland and stood through Amhran na bhFiann without a problem it's not that difficult and standing to show respect is not the same as supporting the country's military actions!

If a British player had a problem with the Irish flag/anthem, he wouldn't be declaring for Ireland in the first place.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2019, 01:58:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Mannus and Cliftonville both deserve to be criticised.

James McClean is a separate issue.

Just stand for the anthem like a normal human being. Sport is full of athletes standing in respect of other anthems why make a big deal of it??

How?! He did literally the exact same thing as Mannus.
I wasn't aware of the West Brom/Canada:GSTQ incident. I can now confirm that in my opinion he was as big a cnut as Mannus for doing it. Cliftonville thing is different GSTQ shouldn't be played before events in NI just like it's not played in Scotland or Wales
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 02:47:34 PM
I don't get this at all. Are people advocating that there should be a strict protocol for everyone to adhere to when an anthem is played?

Is Colin Kaeperknick a ****?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 06, 2019, 05:25:43 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 06, 2019, 01:58:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 06, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Mannus and Cliftonville both deserve to be criticised.

James McClean is a separate issue.

Just stand for the anthem like a normal human being. Sport is full of athletes standing in respect of other anthems why make a big deal of it??

How?! He did literally the exact same thing as Mannus.
I wasn't aware of the West Brom/Canada:GSTQ incident. I can now confirm that in my opinion he was as big a cnut as Mannus for doing it. Cliftonville thing is different GSTQ shouldn't be played before events in NI just like it's not played in Scotland or Wales

The IFA had stopped playing it before Irish Cup finals a few years previously, and then lo and behold, the team with the biggest nationalist support in the Irish League get to the final and the IFA unilaterally decides to reintroduce it... (and they want to attract Catholics to support Are We A Country  ::)). Backfired big-time cos I couldn't hear it in the stand due to the amount of booing!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: yewtree on November 06, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
It is long been recognized the sacrifices made in The Great War (1914-) and Second World War by Irish people in Ireland and Northern Ireland and now the poppy should be wore with pride.
This shunning of it belongs in the past let's move on and respect the fallen.
The Gaa needs to take the lead and show leadership and get GAA President and County Chairpersons to wear one at this time of year and reach out and be cross community.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 06, 2019, 07:20:46 PM
Especially the Derry Chairman.
He could also wear it at the Bloody Sunday Commemoration. ::)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 06, 2019, 07:33:53 PM
Quote from: yewtree on November 06, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
It is long been recognized the sacrifices made in The Great War (1914-) and Second World War by Irish people in Ireland and Northern Ireland and now the poppy should be wore with pride.
This shunning of it belongs in the past let's move on and respect the fallen.
The Gaa needs to take the lead and show leadership and get GAA President and County Chairpersons to wear one at this time of year and reach out and be cross community.

Are you for real?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 06, 2019, 07:48:50 PM
The GAA are a non-political organisation. They should not endorse the Poppy appeal. Nor should they have had an 1916 commemoration in Croke Park 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 06, 2019, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: yewtree on November 06, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
It is long been recognized the sacrifices made in The Great War (1914-) and Second World War by Irish people in Ireland and Northern Ireland and now the poppy should be wore with pride.
This shunning of it belongs in the past let's move on and respect the fallen.
The Gaa needs to take the lead and show leadership and get GAA President and County Chairpersons to wear one at this time of year and reach out and be cross community.

What else? Form a lodge and march on the Glorious Twelfth?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: snoopdog on November 06, 2019, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: yewtree on November 06, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
It is long been recognized the sacrifices made in The Great War (1914-) and Second World War by Irish people in Ireland and Northern Ireland and now the poppy should be wore with pride.
This shunning of it belongs in the past let's move on and respect the fallen.
The Gaa needs to take the lead and show leadership and get GAA President and County Chairpersons to wear one at this time of year and reach out and be cross community.
And dont forget to commemorate those that drove in on their saracens to croke pk and shot dead innocent people and those paratroopers in Derry and many many more british armed forces who murdered innocents on our streets. Get real ffs and learn what exactly the poppy represents.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dec on November 06, 2019, 09:36:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2019, 07:48:50 PM
The GAA are a non-political organisation. They should not endorse the Poppy appeal. Nor should they have had an 1916 commemoration in Croke Park 3 years ago.

Non party political
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: charlieTully on November 06, 2019, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 06, 2019, 07:33:53 PM
Quote from: yewtree on November 06, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
It is long been recognized the sacrifices made in The Great War (1914-) and Second World War by Irish people in Ireland and Northern Ireland and now the poppy should be wore with pride.
This shunning of it belongs in the past let's move on and respect the fallen.
The Gaa needs to take the lead and show leadership and get GAA President and County Chairpersons to wear one at this time of year and reach out and be cross community.

Are you for real?

He is a known WUM. Pollutes the Down thread.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 06, 2019, 10:17:34 PM
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2019, 09:36:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2019, 07:48:50 PM
The GAA are a non-political organisation. They should not endorse the Poppy appeal. Nor should they have had an 1916 commemoration in Croke Park 3 years ago.

Non party political

Even so, it shouldn't have happened.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: The Bearded One on November 07, 2019, 02:42:34 PM
I particularly enjoy those people who wear multiple poppy ensembles...maybe a metal pin and a plastic flower.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Aaron Boone on November 07, 2019, 05:28:16 PM
The British Legion tries to defuse the apparent poppy fascism, from their website:

"The poppy is a well-known and well-established symbol, one that carries a wealth of history and meaning with it. Wearing a poppy is still a very personal choice, reflecting individual experiences and personal memories. It is never compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those who it is intended to support."

https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/about-remembrance/the-poppy
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 09, 2019, 09:20:48 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 07, 2019, 05:28:16 PM
The British Legion tries to defuse the apparent poppy fascism, from their website:

"The poppy is a well-known and well-established symbol, one that carries a wealth of history and meaning with it. Wearing a poppy is still a very personal choice, reflecting individual experiences and personal memories. It is never compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those who it is intended to support."

https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/about-remembrance/the-poppy

Michael o'Neill none on tonight on quest after stoke game
I assume he's worn it before being 6 counties manager ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 10, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
https://twitter.com/OFalafel/status/1193156433988206593?s=20
Def not forget...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Denn Forever on November 10, 2019, 05:38:50 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 10, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
https://twitter.com/OFalafel/status/1193156433988206593?s=20
Def not forget...

Looks like a postbox.  Remembering all that were butchered.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on November 10, 2019, 05:43:31 PM
https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1193537501547372544?s=19
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2019, 08:57:42 PM
Was walking the dogs this morning and there were two wee pups wearing their poppies on them, I was horrified! No I wasn't, just walked on by and finished my walk
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 10, 2019, 09:06:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2019, 08:57:42 PM
Was walking the dogs this morning and there were two wee pups wearing their poppies on them, I was horrified! No I wasn't, just walked on by and finished my walk

What better way to remember the horror of the somme
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 10, 2019, 09:32:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2019, 08:57:42 PM
Was walking the dogs this morning and there were two wee pups wearing their poppies on them, I was horrified! No I wasn't, just walked on by and finished my walk

That's the most pathetic thing I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2019, 09:44:10 PM
It's a fundraising thing, so buying the poppies for her dogs will fund that charity.

Plenty Irish died on that fateful day. Most wars can't be justified but we manage to commentate and celebrate wars that have happened on this island and then feel that the fascist imperialism of Britain needs to be scorned!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 10, 2019, 11:02:08 PM
Probably because one is fascist and imperialistic and the types we do like to commemorate were fought to rid us of that imperialism...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2019, 11:28:35 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 10, 2019, 11:02:08 PM
Probably because one is fascist and imperialistic and the types we do like to commemorate were fought to rid us of that imperialism...

Which part of the civil war or recent troubles do you like to commemorate?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2019, 11:35:29 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 10, 2019, 11:32:37 PM
Meanwhile over in England, someone either has massive balls of steel or a major death wish...

Remembrance Sunday disrupted by fireworks in Salford

A man who disrupted a Remembrance Sunday event with fireworks had to be rushed away from angry veterans by police.

The fireworks exploded in the sky as hundreds of people stood in silence at 11:00 GMT and listened to the Last Post at the cenotaph in Eccles, Salford.

A man had set them off from a window ledge in a disused pub across the road.

Angry veterans began shouting, "Get him out!" and trying to break down the pub door before officers took the man away.

Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said a 38-year-old man had been arrested on suspicion of a public order offence and was being questioned.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-50367340

Was it Benny Itchy or Ogra?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2019, 07:25:08 AM
This is how I feel about poppies

https://twitter.com/PaulSaysTruth1/status/1193782210953928704
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2019, 12:41:44 PM
Poppy fascism at its best:

Just caught a glimpse of that Coven on ITV (aka Loose Women) discussing the topic 'should we be made to wear a poppy?'
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: playwiththewind1st on November 11, 2019, 02:51:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2019, 09:32:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2019, 08:57:42 PM
Was walking the dogs this morning and there were two wee pups wearing their poppies on them, I was horrified! No I wasn't, just walked on by and finished my walk

That's the most pathetic thing I've ever heard.

Agreed - he should either have red carded them or buried his hurl in them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 11, 2019, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2019, 11:28:35 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 10, 2019, 11:02:08 PM
Probably because one is fascist and imperialistic and the types we do like to commemorate were fought to rid us of that imperialism...

Which part of the civil war or recent troubles do you like to commemorate?

Didn't know nationalist commemorations were only for that and not events like the Easter Rising... Let those who want to wear their poppies wear them, and let those who want to wear the Easter lily wear them also.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2019, 09:15:09 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 11, 2019, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2019, 11:28:35 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 10, 2019, 11:02:08 PM
Probably because one is fascist and imperialistic and the types we do like to commemorate were fought to rid us of that imperialism...

Which part of the civil war or recent troubles do you like to commemorate?

Didn't know nationalist commemorations were only for that and not events like the Easter Rising... Let those who want to wear their poppies wear them, and let those who want to wear the Easter lily wear them also.

You've never been to a Easter parade and listen to the speeches? I suppose you hear what you want to hear.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 12, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
Following up on the story of that remarkable man.

Salford man jailed (4 months) for setting off fireworks at Remembrance Sunday event

Somehow miraculously managed to escape being ripped to pieces by the angry mob frothing at the mouth  in a KKK like frenzy.

https://tinyurl.com/yjnmm6st (https://tinyurl.com/yjnmm6st)

Milltown Row 2? (in another guise) commented  on the article "U dirty sc**bag"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 01:42:26 PM
@giantpoppywatch is the funniest thing on twitter.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: screenexile on November 12, 2019, 01:46:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 01:42:26 PM
@giantpoppywatch is the funniest thing on twitter.

#InRememberance #LestWeForget #CockDestroyer
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
Following up on the story of that remarkable man.

Salford man jailed (4 months) for setting off fireworks at Remembrance Sunday event

Somehow miraculously managed to escape being ripped to pieces by the angry mob frothing at the mouth  in a KKK like frenzy.

https://tinyurl.com/yjnmm6st (https://tinyurl.com/yjnmm6st)

Milltown Row 2? (in another guise) commented  on the article "U dirty sc**bag"

I suppose if you're looking to be ripped to pieces just turn up at a funeral outside Casement  ;)

Every year it's the same, people annoyed about a charity. I think the charity can represent what it wants to everyone who wears it or any other flower. If someone is wearing it for the wrong reasons then that's his problem and if you're offended by it then put your big boy pants on and ignore it
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 03:17:52 PM
You're one of a number of posters on this Board that I've previously had run ins with and have personally tried to get to like but I have to admit defeat

Dougal this board is not about conforming with others and sharing and agreeing with their views all the time, and its not about gaining new friends, I've enough friends to disagree with but not fall out with.

I have never disliked anyone on here as I (bar a couple) don't know anyone here personally, a lot of people come on here for a wind up a chat or share thoughts on various things, some of which is very useful. I'd suspect a lot of posters on here wouldn't be so sharing of their thoughts in real life to their work colleagues, I'm at an age were I can take it or leave it..

The poopy like flegs seem to get up peoples goats a lot easier than other subjects I find more important, as for wanting things to go back to the 60's I have no idea where you are getting that from in any of my posts. But yes women shouldn't be allowed to vote or work in a pub/bookies
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 12, 2019, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
Following up on the story of that remarkable man.

Salford man jailed (4 months) for setting off fireworks at Remembrance Sunday event

Somehow miraculously managed to escape being ripped to pieces by the angry mob frothing at the mouth  in a KKK like frenzy.

https://tinyurl.com/yjnmm6st (https://tinyurl.com/yjnmm6st)

Milltown Row 2? (in another guise) commented  on the article "U dirty sc**bag"

I suppose if you're looking to be ripped to pieces just turn up at a funeral outside Casement  ;)

Every year it's the same, people annoyed about a charity. I think the charity can represent what it wants to everyone who wears it or any other flower. If someone is wearing it for the wrong reasons then that's his problem and if you're offended by it then put your big boy pants on and ignore it
You should put your pants on and shift away from the obsession you have with this thread :D
You protest way too much, persistantly indulge in whataboutery and assume that one persons critical analysis of the widespread creeeping  poppy fascism eg in the world of football, conforms to your narrow, simplistic and plain ignorant perspective of a person 'being offfended'. You're more of  a fascist in the guise of a pseudo tolerabe liberal  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 12, 2019, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
Following up on the story of that remarkable man.

Salford man jailed (4 months) for setting off fireworks at Remembrance Sunday event

Somehow miraculously managed to escape being ripped to pieces by the angry mob frothing at the mouth  in a KKK like frenzy.

https://tinyurl.com/yjnmm6st (https://tinyurl.com/yjnmm6st)

Milltown Row 2? (in another guise) commented  on the article "U dirty sc**bag"

I suppose if you're looking to be ripped to pieces just turn up at a funeral outside Casement  ;)

Every year it's the same, people annoyed about a charity. I think the charity can represent what it wants to everyone who wears it or any other flower. If someone is wearing it for the wrong reasons then that's his problem and if you're offended by it then put your big boy pants on and ignore it

Pathetic without putting that particular episode in context considering it was used to demonise a whole community
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 05:05:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 03:17:52 PM
You're one of a number of posters on this Board that I've previously had run ins with and have personally tried to get to like but I have to admit defeat

Dougal this board is not about conforming with others and sharing and agreeing with their views all the time, and its not about gaining new friends, I've enough friends to disagree with but not fall out with.

I have never disliked anyone on here as I (bar a couple) don't know anyone here personally, a lot of people come on here for a wind up a chat or share thoughts on various things, some of which is very useful. I'd suspect a lot of posters on here wouldn't be so sharing of their thoughts in real life to their work colleagues, I'm at an age were I can take it or leave it..

The poopy like flegs seem to get up peoples goats a lot easier than other subjects I find more important, as for wanting things to go back to the 60's I have no idea where you are getting that from in any of my posts. But yes women shouldn't be allowed to vote or work in a pub/bookies

I dont think this is anything to do with individual decisions people take regarding the wearing of a poppy. Its about a bullying culture to wear one, its about one up man-ship - my poppy is bigger than yours, its about a sort of british nationalism. It certainly seems to be f**k all to do with actually remembering anything or anyone. Some of what you see is damn right so ridiculous you can only laugh - poppy cakes, poppy haircuts, poppys on dogs, foreign footballers forced to wear poppys on their jerseys.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 12, 2019, 05:14:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 05:05:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 03:17:52 PM
You're one of a number of posters on this Board that I've previously had run ins with and have personally tried to get to like but I have to admit defeat

Dougal this board is not about conforming with others and sharing and agreeing with their views all the time, and its not about gaining new friends, I've enough friends to disagree with but not fall out with.

I have never disliked anyone on here as I (bar a couple) don't know anyone here personally, a lot of people come on here for a wind up a chat or share thoughts on various things, some of which is very useful. I'd suspect a lot of posters on here wouldn't be so sharing of their thoughts in real life to their work colleagues, I'm at an age were I can take it or leave it..

The poopy like flegs seem to get up peoples goats a lot easier than other subjects I find more important, as for wanting things to go back to the 60's I have no idea where you are getting that from in any of my posts. But yes women shouldn't be allowed to vote or work in a pub/bookies

I dont think this is anything to do with individual decisions people take regarding the wearing of a poppy. Its about a bullying culture to wear one, its about one up man-ship - my poppy is bigger than yours, its about a sort of british nationalism. It certainly seems to be f**k all to do with actually remembering anything or anyone. Some of what you see is damn right so ridiculous you can only laugh - poppy cakes, poppy haircuts, poppys on dogs, foreign footballers forced to wear poppys on their jerseys.

Even those from Deutschland.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 05:23:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 05:05:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 03:17:52 PM
You're one of a number of posters on this Board that I've previously had run ins with and have personally tried to get to like but I have to admit defeat

Dougal this board is not about conforming with others and sharing and agreeing with their views all the time, and its not about gaining new friends, I've enough friends to disagree with but not fall out with.

I have never disliked anyone on here as I (bar a couple) don't know anyone here personally, a lot of people come on here for a wind up a chat or share thoughts on various things, some of which is very useful. I'd suspect a lot of posters on here wouldn't be so sharing of their thoughts in real life to their work colleagues, I'm at an age were I can take it or leave it..

The poopy like flegs seem to get up peoples goats a lot easier than other subjects I find more important, as for wanting things to go back to the 60's I have no idea where you are getting that from in any of my posts. But yes women shouldn't be allowed to vote or work in a pub/bookies

I dont think this is anything to do with individual decisions people take regarding the wearing of a poppy. Its about a bullying culture to wear one, its about one up man-ship - my poppy is bigger than yours, its about a sort of british nationalism. It certainly seems to be f**k all to do with actually remembering anything or anyone. Some of what you see is damn right so ridiculous you can only laugh - poppy cakes, poppy haircuts, poppys on dogs, foreign footballers forced to wear poppys on their jerseys.

Who is bullied into wearing a poppy? If someone wants to wear a poppy they'll do it, if they don't then they shouldn't, I work with the public every day I do not bat an eyelid at a poppy on their coat, nor do I question their motives, same at Easter time or St Patricks day, I've more to worry about in life than someone wearing a flower on their coat or what it stands for, there are far more terrible things going on, like the price of butter and fruit!

The brits will always ram it down your throat, have you been affected by over use of the poppy?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 06:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 05:23:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 05:05:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 03:17:52 PM
You're one of a number of posters on this Board that I've previously had run ins with and have personally tried to get to like but I have to admit defeat

Dougal this board is not about conforming with others and sharing and agreeing with their views all the time, and its not about gaining new friends, I've enough friends to disagree with but not fall out with.

I have never disliked anyone on here as I (bar a couple) don't know anyone here personally, a lot of people come on here for a wind up a chat or share thoughts on various things, some of which is very useful. I'd suspect a lot of posters on here wouldn't be so sharing of their thoughts in real life to their work colleagues, I'm at an age were I can take it or leave it..

The poopy like flegs seem to get up peoples goats a lot easier than other subjects I find more important, as for wanting things to go back to the 60's I have no idea where you are getting that from in any of my posts. But yes women shouldn't be allowed to vote or work in a pub/bookies

I dont think this is anything to do with individual decisions people take regarding the wearing of a poppy. Its about a bullying culture to wear one, its about one up man-ship - my poppy is bigger than yours, its about a sort of british nationalism. It certainly seems to be f**k all to do with actually remembering anything or anyone. Some of what you see is damn right so ridiculous you can only laugh - poppy cakes, poppy haircuts, poppys on dogs, foreign footballers forced to wear poppys on their jerseys.

Who is bullied into wearing a poppy? If someone wants to wear a poppy they'll do it, if they don't then they shouldn't, I work with the public every day I do not bat an eyelid at a poppy on their coat, nor do I question their motives, same at Easter time or St Patricks day, I've more to worry about in life than someone wearing a flower on their coat or what it stands for, there are far more terrible things going on, like the price of butter and fruit!

The brits will always ram it down your throat, have you been affected by over use of the poppy?

Every professional soccer player in the uk. Everyone who goes onto uk TV.  Thats for a start.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 12, 2019, 06:55:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 05:23:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 05:05:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 03:17:52 PM
You're one of a number of posters on this Board that I've previously had run ins with and have personally tried to get to like but I have to admit defeat

Dougal this board is not about conforming with others and sharing and agreeing with their views all the time, and its not about gaining new friends, I've enough friends to disagree with but not fall out with.

I have never disliked anyone on here as I (bar a couple) don't know anyone here personally, a lot of people come on here for a wind up a chat or share thoughts on various things, some of which is very useful. I'd suspect a lot of posters on here wouldn't be so sharing of their thoughts in real life to their work colleagues, I'm at an age were I can take it or leave it..

The poopy like flegs seem to get up peoples goats a lot easier than other subjects I find more important, as for wanting things to go back to the 60's I have no idea where you are getting that from in any of my posts. But yes women shouldn't be allowed to vote or work in a pub/bookies

I dont think this is anything to do with individual decisions people take regarding the wearing of a poppy. Its about a bullying culture to wear one, its about one up man-ship - my poppy is bigger than yours, its about a sort of british nationalism. It certainly seems to be f**k all to do with actually remembering anything or anyone. Some of what you see is damn right so ridiculous you can only laugh - poppy cakes, poppy haircuts, poppys on dogs, foreign footballers forced to wear poppys on their jerseys.

Who is bullied into wearing a poppy? If someone wants to wear a poppy they'll do it, if they don't then they shouldn't, I work with the public every day I do not bat an eyelid at a poppy on their coat, nor do I question their motives, same at Easter time or St Patricks day, I've more to worry about in life than someone wearing a flower on their coat or what it stands for, there are far more terrible things going on, like the price of butter and fruit!

The brits will always ram it down your throat, have you been affected by over use of the poppy?

Agree entirely re anyone's right to wear a poppy , friends and work colleagues have been wearing them for years and it doesn't annoy me in the slightest . Personally, I don't know anyone who wears it to be provocative. However , it actually devalues the poppy symbolism if wearing it becomes an expectation rather than a choice . The treatment of James mcclean is racist in my opinion, he has explained his valid reasons for not wearing it, and he respects those that do wear them, yet he is subjected to racist abuse for choosing not to wear one. It's absolutely appalling that his "union" the PFA , and the FA itself don't give him any meaningful support , therefore contributing to making this racism acceptable. Those that don't support mcclean are at best hypocritical and at worst racist themselves by giving credence to the implication ( much like the anti - Neil Lennon racism) that McCLean brings it on himself, and should just shut up and get on with it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Ambrose on November 12, 2019, 08:14:11 PM
I think the two lads should have a straightener. Loser wears a poppy into work for a week next November.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Now we'll see if Frank Mitchel is on the Board
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2019, 09:08:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

Maybe so, but the FA should back McClean on his stance. Instead they sit back and watch him get abused annually. The FA staying silent more or less gives arseholes permission to abuse him.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dec on November 12, 2019, 09:18:17 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2019, 09:08:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

Maybe so, but the FA should back McClean on his stance. Instead they sit back and watch him get abused annually. The FA staying silent more or less gives arseholes permission to abuse him.

Even the Royal British Legion realises that forcing people to wear it is wrong.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34720464

A spokesperson for the Royal British Legion says the poppy "honours all those who have sacrificed their lives to protect the freedoms we enjoy today, and so the decision to wear it must be a matter of personal choice. If the poppy became compulsory it would lose its meaning and significance. We are thankful for every poppy worn, but we never insist upon it, to do so would be contrary to the spirit of Remembrance and all that the poppy stands for."
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Now we'll see if Frank Mitchel is on the Board

I doubt very much Frank is forced, he's happy enough to wear it, as he does every year.

I worked in the shipyard and they had poppies on all year and ten extra ones on during September October and November. I never felt intimidated pressured or bullied.

I respect people wearing them for the right reasons but reserve the right not to wear one
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 12, 2019, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Now we'll see if Frank Mitchel is on the Board

I doubt very much Frank is forced, he's happy enough to wear it, as he does every year.

I worked in the shipyard and they had poppies on all year and ten extra ones on during September October and November. I never felt intimidated pressured or bullied.

I respect people wearing them for the right reasons but reserve the right not to wear one

I doubt Frank is forced , but there has become a culture of expectation of wearing a poppy in various visibly prominent organisations which demeans the valid principle behind the poppy. The treatment of McClean and the failure of the PFA , FA And other prominent British organisations to support his right to choose , and/or condemn the racist abuse he receives,  is a serious indictment of those organisations who rightly champion equality and respect in all other cases. Not only is it appalling but it's really bizarre - how do they not realise the hypocrisy of their silence?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.

Obvious bullying? Do you honestly think Roy Keane (who is, I'd imagined financially secure) being bullied? Wise up, if he has (or many others) any issues with wearing a poppy I think he wouldn't wear one.

You're possibly getting annoyed that some people actually want to wear one for the reasons it's actually for!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 11:04:35 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 12, 2019, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Now we'll see if Frank Mitchel is on the Board

I doubt very much Frank is forced, he's happy enough to wear it, as he does every year.

I worked in the shipyard and they had poppies on all year and ten extra ones on during September October and November. I never felt intimidated pressured or bullied.

I respect people wearing them for the right reasons but reserve the right not to wear one

I doubt Frank is forced , but there has become a culture of expectation of wearing a poppy in various visibly prominent organisations which demeans the valid principle behind the poppy. The treatment of McClean and the failure of the PFA , FA And other prominent British organisations to support his right to choose , and/or condemn the racist abuse he receives,  is a serious indictment of those organisations who rightly champion equality and respect in all other cases. Not only is it appalling but it's really bizarre - how do they not realise the hypocrisy of their silence?

So is it bullying or does he accept that by wearing a poppy he's wearing it for the right reasons. Frank seems like an intelligent guy.

As for the FA

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1090398/

McClean himself would wear a poppy for the right reasons.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 11:06:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.

Obvious bullying? Do you honestly think Roy Keane (who is, I'd imagined financially secure) being bullied? Wise up, if he has (or many others) any issues with wearing a poppy I think he wouldn't wear one.

You're possibly getting annoyed that some people actually want to wear one for the reasons it's actually for!

Not annoyed at all but use your brain, how many celebrities or soccer players on tv will make the call to not wear one, knowing the abuse they will bring on themselves and their families? It's the definition of bullying.

What is the reason it's actually for?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 12, 2019, 11:17:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 11:04:35 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 12, 2019, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Now we'll see if Frank Mitchel is on the Board

I doubt very much Frank is forced, he's happy enough to wear it, as he does every year.

I worked in the shipyard and they had poppies on all year and ten extra ones on during September October and November. I never felt intimidated pressured or bullied.

I respect people wearing them for the right reasons but reserve the right not to wear one

I doubt Frank is forced , but there has become a culture of expectation of wearing a poppy in various visibly prominent organisations which demeans the valid principle behind the poppy. The treatment of McClean and the failure of the PFA , FA And other prominent British organisations to support his right to choose , and/or condemn the racist abuse he receives,  is a serious indictment of those organisations who rightly champion equality and respect in all other cases. Not only is it appalling but it's really bizarre - how do they not realise the hypocrisy of their silence?

So is it bullying or does he accept that by wearing a poppy he's wearing it for the right reasons. Frank seems like an intelligent guy.

As for the FA

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1090398/

McClean himself would wear a poppy for the right reasons.

Frank's a great lad , he'll make his own decisions and I'll respect him for it, but the treatment of mcclean is blatantly racist and this racism is the single most important aspect of this poppy debate and shouldn't be minimised. What's that phrase "evil will triumph only when good men say nothing" . Stand up to racism!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2019, 11:26:02 PM
7 or 8 seasons later, and the FA are "investigating" an incident? Pitiful.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 11:32:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2019, 11:26:02 PM
7 or 8 seasons later, and the FA are "investigating" an incident? Pitiful.

I thought it was longer but people on here said they've done nothing this season!

Seems now they are dammed if they do....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 11:36:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 11:06:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.

Obvious bullying? Do you honestly think Roy Keane (who is, I'd imagined financially secure) being bullied? Wise up, if he has (or many others) any issues with wearing a poppy I think he wouldn't wear one.

You're possibly getting annoyed that some people actually want to wear one for the reasons it's actually for!

Not annoyed at all but use your brain, how many celebrities or soccer players on tv will make the call to not wear one, knowing the abuse they will bring on themselves and their families? It's the definition of bullying.

What is the reason it's actually for?

The poppy is a charity. As for the likes of Keane, he's well strong enough to take abuse, he was tortured after walking out on Ireland and abuse from mangers roles. Wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy wouldn't faze him tbh.

To answer your question on the players or celebrities, I don't know and frankly neither do you
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 12, 2019, 11:17:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 11:04:35 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 12, 2019, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Now we'll see if Frank Mitchel is on the Board

I doubt very much Frank is forced, he's happy enough to wear it, as he does every year.

I worked in the shipyard and they had poppies on all year and ten extra ones on during September October and November. I never felt intimidated pressured or bullied.

I respect people wearing them for the right reasons but reserve the right not to wear one

I doubt Frank is forced , but there has become a culture of expectation of wearing a poppy in various visibly prominent organisations which demeans the valid principle behind the poppy. The treatment of McClean and the failure of the PFA , FA And other prominent British organisations to support his right to choose , and/or condemn the racist abuse he receives,  is a serious indictment of those organisations who rightly champion equality and respect in all other cases. Not only is it appalling but it's really bizarre - how do they not realise the hypocrisy of their silence?

So is it bullying or does he accept that by wearing a poppy he's wearing it for the right reasons. Frank seems like an intelligent guy.

As for the FA

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1090398/

McClean himself would wear a poppy for the right reasons.

Frank's a great lad , he'll make his own decisions and I'll respect him for it, but the treatment of mcclean is blatantly racist and this racism is the single most important aspect of this poppy debate and shouldn't be minimised. What's that phrase "evil will triumph only when good men say nothing" . Stand up to racism!
I'm not disputing the fact that Frank's a good lad but I don't ever remember him wearing a poppy before he joined UTV so I'd be interested to know why he had a change of heart
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 13, 2019, 12:02:07 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 12, 2019, 11:17:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 11:04:35 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 12, 2019, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 12, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Now we'll see if Frank Mitchel is on the Board

I doubt very much Frank is forced, he's happy enough to wear it, as he does every year.

I worked in the shipyard and they had poppies on all year and ten extra ones on during September October and November. I never felt intimidated pressured or bullied.

I respect people wearing them for the right reasons but reserve the right not to wear one

I doubt Frank is forced , but there has become a culture of expectation of wearing a poppy in various visibly prominent organisations which demeans the valid principle behind the poppy. The treatment of McClean and the failure of the PFA , FA And other prominent British organisations to support his right to choose , and/or condemn the racist abuse he receives,  is a serious indictment of those organisations who rightly champion equality and respect in all other cases. Not only is it appalling but it's really bizarre - how do they not realise the hypocrisy of their silence?

So is it bullying or does he accept that by wearing a poppy he's wearing it for the right reasons. Frank seems like an intelligent guy.

As for the FA

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1090398/

McClean himself would wear a poppy for the right reasons.

Frank's a great lad , he'll make his own decisions and I'll respect him for it, but the treatment of mcclean is blatantly racist and this racism is the single most important aspect of this poppy debate and shouldn't be minimised. What's that phrase "evil will triumph only when good men say nothing" . Stand up to racism!
I'm not disputing the fact that Frank's a good lad but I don't ever remember him wearing a poppy before he joined UTV so I'd be interested to know why he had a change of heart
Agreed. That's the exact point I'm trying to make.
Regarding Roy Keane , another example of expectation and capitulating to those expectations . Much as I admired Roy Keane as a player, he finally lost all credibility after his woefully insensitive and disgusting remarks regarding Jonathan Walters. He ironically portrayed himself as a super Irish patriot whilst questioning the Irish credentials of Mick McCarthy as a second generation Paddy, which many would view as anti-English racism. Now he's wearing a poppy ? It's farcical to be honest.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2019, 01:26:53 AM
I don't know exactly what point you're making to be honest. Are you suggesting that Frank chose to wear one or was forced to wear one? Regardless I'm not sure I'd want to be drawing any comparisons between Frank, who's a pretty sound guy, and Roy Keane who I don't actually know but who seems to be a bully and a pretty nasty piece of work
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 07:23:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 11:36:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 11:06:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.

Obvious bullying? Do you honestly think Roy Keane (who is, I'd imagined financially secure) being bullied? Wise up, if he has (or many others) any issues with wearing a poppy I think he wouldn't wear one.

You're possibly getting annoyed that some people actually want to wear one for the reasons it's actually for!

Not annoyed at all but use your brain, how many celebrities or soccer players on tv will make the call to not wear one, knowing the abuse they will bring on themselves and their families? It's the definition of bullying.

What is the reason it's actually for?

The poppy is a charity. As for the likes of Keane, he's well strong enough to take abuse, he was tortured after walking out on Ireland and abuse from mangers roles. Wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy wouldn't faze him tbh.

To answer your question on the players or celebrities, I don't know and frankly neither do you

I may not know the answer but I know the answer is greater than zero. Frankly I cannot believe anyone does not see this for what it is, bullying. Also for the person who says that Roy keane is well able for abuse etc etc. Would you think that if a colleague at work was being bullied, if a child was being bullied. This poppy fascism is disgusting carry on which is only mildly alleviated by the pure stupidity of sine the people pushing it.

I suggest you read Robert Fisks great article on why he or his father (a war vetersn) didn't wear one if you think its simply a charity
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 13, 2019, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2019, 01:26:53 AM
I don't know exactly what point you're making to be honest. Are you suggesting that Frank chose to wear one or was forced to wear one? Regardless I'm not sure I'd want to be drawing any comparisons between Frank, who's a pretty sound guy, and Roy Keane who I don't actually know but who seems to be a bully and a pretty nasty piece of work

I'd imagine Frank chose to wear a poppy.
However there are influences in the workplace , in the public eye particularly , that affect that choice. Would Frank be wearing a poppy if he had remained around Newry for his work?
The poppy campaign is a charity for an honourable cause, however it has been hijacked by some.
I don't like the expectation on those in the public eye to wear one, and the abusive treatment of James McClean  over it , is clearly racist, yet not one prominent organisation has called it out, To my knowledge. It'll be interesting to see the support he gets from his new Stoke manager Michael O'Neill.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnnycool on November 13, 2019, 09:48:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.

Obvious bullying? Do you honestly think Roy Keane (who is, I'd imagined financially secure) being bullied? Wise up, if he has (or many others) any issues with wearing a poppy I think he wouldn't wear one.

You're possibly getting annoyed that some people actually want to wear one for the reasons it's actually for!

I see where you're coming from but at the same time do you think Roy rocked up to the Sky studio with a poppy already on or was there a selection in the studio for him with the expectation to wear one?

Same with Graham Norton show and the likes. Do those yank actors or whoever arrive with their poppy or are they provided with one?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 13, 2019, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2019, 01:26:53 AM
I don't know exactly what point you're making to be honest. Are you suggesting that Frank chose to wear one or was forced to wear one? Regardless I'm not sure I'd want to be drawing any comparisons between Frank, who's a pretty sound guy, and Roy Keane who I don't actually know but who seems to be a bully and a pretty nasty piece of work

I'd imagine Frank chose to wear a poppy.
However there are influences in the workplace , in the public eye particularly , that affect that choice. Would Frank be wearing a poppy if he had remained around Newry for his work?
The poppy campaign is a charity for an honourable cause, however it has been hijacked by some.
I don't like the expectation on those in the public eye to wear one, and the abusive treatment of James McClean  over it , is clearly racist, yet not one prominent organisation has called it out, To my knowledge. It'll be interesting to see the support he gets from his new Stoke manager Michael O'Neill.

Is it?

If WW1 was the war to end all wars, like they said, there would be no veterans left now. Therefore, no need for the charity. Of course, the Brits continue to stick their nose in around the world, so there's always a war somewhere.

It would be interesting to know the number who marched in protest of the Iraq invasion in 2003, who also buy poppies. I'd imagine quite a few. So even though they're against war, they help look after soldiers who were sent there.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LeoMc on November 13, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 13, 2019, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2019, 01:26:53 AM
I don't know exactly what point you're making to be honest. Are you suggesting that Frank chose to wear one or was forced to wear one? Regardless I'm not sure I'd want to be drawing any comparisons between Frank, who's a pretty sound guy, and Roy Keane who I don't actually know but who seems to be a bully and a pretty nasty piece of work

I'd imagine Frank chose to wear a poppy.
However there are influences in the workplace , in the public eye particularly , that affect that choice. Would Frank be wearing a poppy if he had remained around Newry for his work?
The poppy campaign is a charity for an honourable cause, however it has been hijacked by some.
I don't like the expectation on those in the public eye to wear one, and the abusive treatment of James McClean  over it , is clearly racist, yet not one prominent organisation has called it out, To my knowledge. It'll be interesting to see the support he gets from his new Stoke manager Michael O'Neill.

Is it?

If WW1 was the war to end all wars, like they said, there would be no veterans left now. Therefore, no need for the charity. Of course, the Brits continue to stick their nose in around the world, so there's always a war somewhere.

It would be interesting to know the number who marched in protest of the Iraq invasion in 2003, who also buy poppies. I'd imagine quite a few. So even though they're against war, they help look after soldiers who were sent there.
That is not a contradiction.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 13, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 13, 2019, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2019, 01:26:53 AM
I don't know exactly what point you're making to be honest. Are you suggesting that Frank chose to wear one or was forced to wear one? Regardless I'm not sure I'd want to be drawing any comparisons between Frank, who's a pretty sound guy, and Roy Keane who I don't actually know but who seems to be a bully and a pretty nasty piece of work

I'd imagine Frank chose to wear a poppy.
However there are influences in the workplace , in the public eye particularly , that affect that choice. Would Frank be wearing a poppy if he had remained around Newry for his work?
The poppy campaign is a charity for an honourable cause, however it has been hijacked by some.
I don't like the expectation on those in the public eye to wear one, and the abusive treatment of James McClean  over it , is clearly racist, yet not one prominent organisation has called it out, To my knowledge. It'll be interesting to see the support he gets from his new Stoke manager Michael O'Neill.

Is it?

If WW1 was the war to end all wars, like they said, there would be no veterans left now. Therefore, no need for the charity. Of course, the Brits continue to stick their nose in around the world, so there's always a war somewhere.

It would be interesting to know the number who marched in protest of the Iraq invasion in 2003, who also buy poppies. I'd imagine quite a few. So even though they're against war, they help look after soldiers who were sent there.
That is not a contradiction.

I didn't say it was. But it's very strange all the same.

To me, the whole poppy push is about the British government neglecting their soldiers (not that I care much for them tbh) and it's the ordinary people who fund the soldiers post-war needs.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on November 13, 2019, 10:34:39 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 13, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 13, 2019, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2019, 01:26:53 AM
I don't know exactly what point you're making to be honest. Are you suggesting that Frank chose to wear one or was forced to wear one? Regardless I'm not sure I'd want to be drawing any comparisons between Frank, who's a pretty sound guy, and Roy Keane who I don't actually know but who seems to be a bully and a pretty nasty piece of work

I'd imagine Frank chose to wear a poppy.
However there are influences in the workplace , in the public eye particularly , that affect that choice. Would Frank be wearing a poppy if he had remained around Newry for his work?
The poppy campaign is a charity for an honourable cause, however it has been hijacked by some.
I don't like the expectation on those in the public eye to wear one, and the abusive treatment of James McClean  over it , is clearly racist, yet not one prominent organisation has called it out, To my knowledge. It'll be interesting to see the support he gets from his new Stoke manager Michael O'Neill.

Is it?

If WW1 was the war to end all wars, like they said, there would be no veterans left now. Therefore, no need for the charity. Of course, the Brits continue to stick their nose in around the world, so there's always a war somewhere.

It would be interesting to know the number who marched in protest of the Iraq invasion in 2003, who also buy poppies. I'd imagine quite a few. So even though they're against war, they help look after soldiers who were sent there.
That is not a contradiction.

I didn't say it was. But it's very strange all the same.

To me, the whole poppy push is about the British government neglecting their soldiers (not that I care much for them tbh) and it's the ordinary people who fund the soldiers post-war needs.
Its not strange at all Benny. Its called empathy
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 13, 2019, 09:48:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.

Obvious bullying? Do you honestly think Roy Keane (who is, I'd imagined financially secure) being bullied? Wise up, if he has (or many others) any issues with wearing a poppy I think he wouldn't wear one.

You're possibly getting annoyed that some people actually want to wear one for the reasons it's actually for!

I see where you're coming from but at the same time do you think Roy rocked up to the Sky studio with a poppy already on or was there a selection in the studio for him with the expectation to wear one?

Same with Graham Norton show and the likes. Do those yank actors or whoever arrive with their poppy or are they provided with one?

Yes its probably put to the yank actors that its normal around this time of year to wear a poppy for remembrance would you like to wear one? Hell yes I'd imagine would be the reply.. Now if one of the actors was not willing to wear it, are they not going to allow him to come on? I doubt that very much also
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnnycool on November 13, 2019, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 13, 2019, 09:48:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.

Obvious bullying? Do you honestly think Roy Keane (who is, I'd imagined financially secure) being bullied? Wise up, if he has (or many others) any issues with wearing a poppy I think he wouldn't wear one.

You're possibly getting annoyed that some people actually want to wear one for the reasons it's actually for!

I see where you're coming from but at the same time do you think Roy rocked up to the Sky studio with a poppy already on or was there a selection in the studio for him with the expectation to wear one?

Same with Graham Norton show and the likes. Do those yank actors or whoever arrive with their poppy or are they provided with one?

Yes its probably put to the yank actors that its normal around this time of year to wear a poppy for remembrance would you like to wear one? Hell yes I'd imagine would be the reply.. Now if one of the actors was not willing to wear it, are they not going to allow him to come on? I doubt that very much also

I'd say its more likely to be, "oh, ok, if that's what everyone else is doing" in so much as not knowing any better than to row against the social norm.


Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 03:32:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 13, 2019, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 13, 2019, 09:48:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.

Obvious bullying? Do you honestly think Roy Keane (who is, I'd imagined financially secure) being bullied? Wise up, if he has (or many others) any issues with wearing a poppy I think he wouldn't wear one.

You're possibly getting annoyed that some people actually want to wear one for the reasons it's actually for!

I see where you're coming from but at the same time do you think Roy rocked up to the Sky studio with a poppy already on or was there a selection in the studio for him with the expectation to wear one?

Same with Graham Norton show and the likes. Do those yank actors or whoever arrive with their poppy or are they provided with one?

Yes its probably put to the yank actors that its normal around this time of year to wear a poppy for remembrance would you like to wear one? Hell yes I'd imagine would be the reply.. Now if one of the actors was not willing to wear it, are they not going to allow him to come on? I doubt that very much also

I'd say its more likely to be, "oh, ok, if that's what everyone else is doing" in so much as not knowing any better than to row against the social norm.

So if its not an issue for them, then fine? And if they felt deeply enough about this poppy madness then they wouldn't wear it?

If you were asked to go on TV late October November, I'd expect you not to be wearing a poppy, as would I.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: johnnycool on November 13, 2019, 04:00:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 03:32:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 13, 2019, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 13, 2019, 09:48:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Is there anyone on this forum forced to wear a poppy?


McClean is doing it for his reasons, principled. his growing up during the troubles or his family's experiences of the troubles has shaped his views, his stance is a simple one. He continues to play and the thugs/fans at these games are a minority


I don't or would never wear one, same as any other remembrance flower.

This is a forum millrown. Just because I am not forced to wear a poppy doesn't mean I cannot point out the rank hypocrisy of poppy fascism and the obvious bullying behaviour that goes on in the uk.

Obvious bullying? Do you honestly think Roy Keane (who is, I'd imagined financially secure) being bullied? Wise up, if he has (or many others) any issues with wearing a poppy I think he wouldn't wear one.

You're possibly getting annoyed that some people actually want to wear one for the reasons it's actually for!

I see where you're coming from but at the same time do you think Roy rocked up to the Sky studio with a poppy already on or was there a selection in the studio for him with the expectation to wear one?

Same with Graham Norton show and the likes. Do those yank actors or whoever arrive with their poppy or are they provided with one?

Yes its probably put to the yank actors that its normal around this time of year to wear a poppy for remembrance would you like to wear one? Hell yes I'd imagine would be the reply.. Now if one of the actors was not willing to wear it, are they not going to allow him to come on? I doubt that very much also

I'd say its more likely to be, "oh, ok, if that's what everyone else is doing" in so much as not knowing any better than to row against the social norm.

So if its not an issue for them, then fine? And if they felt deeply enough about this poppy madness then they wouldn't wear it?

If you were asked to go on TV late October November, I'd expect you not to be wearing a poppy, as would I.

If I were asked to go on TV late October, November why should someone in the studio feel compelled to offer me one if I haven't got one already, that's my point.
I can't say for sure that that's what happening but it sure as hell looks like it.

IMO there's now a fear for a lot of celebrities to be obliged to wear them for fear of a backlash for not wearing one and as the BL already have pointed out that is actually missing the point of the poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.

So if its that simple, why do you think there isn't say at least 20% of people on TV not wearing them. Could it be fear they will not be asked onto TV again, Fear they will get abuse on social media, fear their kids will be targeted at school. Its Bullying, plain and simple.


You are unbelievably naive if you think that it is as simple as saying No. There are repercussions to saying No - ask James McClean.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.

So if its that simple, why do you think there isn't say at least 20% of people on TV not wearing them. Could it be fear they will not be asked onto TV again, Fear they will get abuse on social media, fear their kids will be targeted at school. Its Bullying, plain and simple.


You are unbelievably naive if you think that it is as simple as saying No. There are repercussions to saying No - ask James McClean.

Naive? No, but I understand that people will be asked to wear a poppy, that choice is then down to the individual,  if he/she is against it  then they shouldn't wear it, so by your math (god only knows where you you dug up that stat) 20 people of every 100 people on TV during October November are wearing it against their wishes?  Is there a link to that?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 13, 2019, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.

So if its that simple, why do you think there isn't say at least 20% of people on TV not wearing them. Could it be fear they will not be asked onto TV again, Fear they will get abuse on social media, fear their kids will be targeted at school. Its Bullying, plain and simple.


You are unbelievably naive if you think that it is as simple as saying No. There are repercussions to saying No - ask James McClean.

Naive? No, but I understand that people will be asked to wear a poppy, that choice is then down to the individual,  if he/she is against it  then they shouldn't wear it, so by your math (god only knows where you you dug up that stat) 20 people of every 100 people on TV during October November are wearing it against their wishes?  Is there a link to that?

There are negative repercussions in Britain for not wearing a poppy if you are a public figure.

So yes.  Choosing not to wear one will impact on your future.

To argue otherwise is either naive or stupid.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 13, 2019, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.

So if its that simple, why do you think there isn't say at least 20% of people on TV not wearing them. Could it be fear they will not be asked onto TV again, Fear they will get abuse on social media, fear their kids will be targeted at school. Its Bullying, plain and simple.


You are unbelievably naive if you think that it is as simple as saying No. There are repercussions to saying No - ask James McClean.

Naive? No, but I understand that people will be asked to wear a poppy, that choice is then down to the individual,  if he/she is against it  then they shouldn't wear it, so by your math (god only knows where you you dug up that stat) 20 people of every 100 people on TV during October November are wearing it against their wishes?  Is there a link to that?

There are negative repercussions in Britain for not wearing a poppy if you are a public figure.

So yes.  Choosing not to wear one will impact on your future.

To argue otherwise is either naive or stupid.

Read back on my posts, I've not said there is no repercussions. So bringing something up like that is stupid. People wear them because they want to. That's all I've said.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 13, 2019, 09:26:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 13, 2019, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.

So if its that simple, why do you think there isn't say at least 20% of people on TV not wearing them. Could it be fear they will not be asked onto TV again, Fear they will get abuse on social media, fear their kids will be targeted at school. Its Bullying, plain and simple.


You are unbelievably naive if you think that it is as simple as saying No. There are repercussions to saying No - ask James McClean.

Naive? No, but I understand that people will be asked to wear a poppy, that choice is then down to the individual,  if he/she is against it  then they shouldn't wear it, so by your math (god only knows where you you dug up that stat) 20 people of every 100 people on TV during October November are wearing it against their wishes?  Is there a link to that?

There are negative repercussions in Britain for not wearing a poppy if you are a public figure.

So yes.  Choosing not to wear one will impact on your future.

To argue otherwise is either naive or stupid.

Read back on my posts, I've not said there is no repercussions. So bringing something up like that is stupid. People wear them because they want to. That's all I've said.

What nonsense.

You agree that there are negative repercussions for not wearing one and then say "People wear them because they want to".

Seriously??
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 09:32:47 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 13, 2019, 09:26:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 13, 2019, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.

So if its that simple, why do you think there isn't say at least 20% of people on TV not wearing them. Could it be fear they will not be asked onto TV again, Fear they will get abuse on social media, fear their kids will be targeted at school. Its Bullying, plain and simple.


You are unbelievably naive if you think that it is as simple as saying No. There are repercussions to saying No - ask James McClean.

Naive? No, but I understand that people will be asked to wear a poppy, that choice is then down to the individual,  if he/she is against it  then they shouldn't wear it, so by your math (god only knows where you you dug up that stat) 20 people of every 100 people on TV during October November are wearing it against their wishes?  Is there a link to that?

There are negative repercussions in Britain for not wearing a poppy if you are a public figure.

So yes.  Choosing not to wear one will impact on your future.

To argue otherwise is either naive or stupid.

Read back on my posts, I've not said there is no repercussions. So bringing something up like that is stupid. People wear them because they want to. That's all I've said.

What nonsense.

You agree that there are negative repercussions for not wearing one and then say "People wear them because they want to".

Seriously??

Franko if you're going to come into the thread then at least stick to the point I've brought up, in this day and age you think every member of the bbc/UTV in N.Ire is forced to wear it or face the internet abuse or worse, lose their jobs?

Has Niblock been wearing one at the commentating of the Ulster club games?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.

So if its that simple, why do you think there isn't say at least 20% of people on TV not wearing them. Could it be fear they will not be asked onto TV again, Fear they will get abuse on social media, fear their kids will be targeted at school. Its Bullying, plain and simple.


You are unbelievably naive if you think that it is as simple as saying No. There are repercussions to saying No - ask James McClean.

Naive? No, but I understand that people will be asked to wear a poppy, that choice is then down to the individual,  if he/she is against it  then they shouldn't wear it, so by your math (god only knows where you you dug up that stat) 20 people of every 100 people on TV during October November are wearing it against their wishes?  Is there a link to that?

I pulled 20% out of the sky, it could be 30%. It could be 5%. However what is clear is that there is 0% refusing to wear them or damn close to it. So some people are clearly uncomfortable to say no. That my friend is bullying.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 10:06:16 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.

So if its that simple, why do you think there isn't say at least 20% of people on TV not wearing them. Could it be fear they will not be asked onto TV again, Fear they will get abuse on social media, fear their kids will be targeted at school. Its Bullying, plain and simple.


You are unbelievably naive if you think that it is as simple as saying No. There are repercussions to saying No - ask James McClean.

Naive? No, but I understand that people will be asked to wear a poppy, that choice is then down to the individual,  if he/she is against it  then they shouldn't wear it, so by your math (god only knows where you you dug up that stat) 20 people of every 100 people on TV during October November are wearing it against their wishes?  Is there a link to that?

I pulled 20% out of the sky, it could be 30%. It could be 5%. However what is clear is that there is 0% refusing to wear them or damn close to it. So some people are clearly uncomfortable to say no. That my friend is bullying.

Ok, so you made it up, if one person is forced to wear it it's bullying.. I agree. If someone wears it because they believe in the charity and what it's basic core point stands for, then that's their choice.

If they are being forced and you can prove your employer is bullying you then they'll leave themselves wide open just like they did with the unfair pay scales
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 13, 2019, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 09:32:47 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 13, 2019, 09:26:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 13, 2019, 09:04:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I get that, though if someone asked me I wouldn't say to them, I have got one on now so why ask me to wear one?

I'd just say no thanks, I think some people are hyping up this fear of not wearing a poppy will decide your future, if you challenge it then they have a problem.

So if its that simple, why do you think there isn't say at least 20% of people on TV not wearing them. Could it be fear they will not be asked onto TV again, Fear they will get abuse on social media, fear their kids will be targeted at school. Its Bullying, plain and simple.


You are unbelievably naive if you think that it is as simple as saying No. There are repercussions to saying No - ask James McClean.

Naive? No, but I understand that people will be asked to wear a poppy, that choice is then down to the individual,  if he/she is against it  then they shouldn't wear it, so by your math (god only knows where you you dug up that stat) 20 people of every 100 people on TV during October November are wearing it against their wishes?  Is there a link to that?

There are negative repercussions in Britain for not wearing a poppy if you are a public figure.

So yes.  Choosing not to wear one will impact on your future.

To argue otherwise is either naive or stupid.

Read back on my posts, I've not said there is no repercussions. So bringing something up like that is stupid. People wear them because they want to. That's all I've said.

What nonsense.

You agree that there are negative repercussions for not wearing one and then say "People wear them because they want to".

Seriously??

Franko if you're going to come into the thread then at least stick to the point I've brought up, in this day and age you think every member of the bbc/UTV in N.Ire is forced to wear it or face the internet abuse or worse, lose their jobs?

Has Niblock been wearing one at the commentating of the Ulster club games?

;D ;D ;D

That's a whopper of a straw man there.

And then to twin it with the statement "at least stick to the point I've brought up" is the real cherry on top...!

Maybe best to slip quietly out of this one.  You're all over the place here.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2019, 11:05:34 PM
Ok Franko, I'll quit as it's past Poppy Day, everyone can breathe knowing that people within the tv world and millionaire soccer players who are disadvantaged by bullying employers can stop wearing a flower!


Hopefully there is some outcome to this.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-7673839/amp/FA-investigating-Barnsley-fans-chant-anti-IRA-anti-Pope-songs-aimed-James-McClean.html
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 14, 2019, 06:11:12 AM
So it's all just about a flower! I think those years working in the shipyard have turned you into an apologist for all things British.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2019, 08:54:40 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 14, 2019, 06:11:12 AM
So it's all just about a flower! I think those years working in the shipyard have turned you into an apologist for all things British.

The flower can represent anything you want, a charity,  a statement by loyalist to remember their dead, the ongoing wars in other countries.. You therefore can't agree with the wearing of other symbols that represent the loss of life as there really is no excuse for it, as the ends never justify the means

Me working in the shipyard has no bearing at all, in fact it has given me a very good insight into the workings of the working man prod..

Had you been born a protestant you'd have a different view, the accident of birth that happens, shapes our future and determines our views based on that particular start in life.

My views are centre left, I can understand why people have the views they have and to a point accept that their internal make up won't really allow them to change. there can be various factors for that, where they live who they work with and their family background.

As for the poppy, flegs and anything else this country throws up, I've stopped getting offended by those things, to me they are not important, if they affect someone's wellbeing they need to address it, growing up were flegs and symbols are a plenty I'm sort of immune to it. I find it sad that a community needs to express it the way they do but that's not my community.. This might be the, I'm alright Jack attitude but I can't control the headers on the Hill or on the streets and I doubt anyone writing on this platform can either
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LeoMc on November 14, 2019, 11:09:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 13, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 13, 2019, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2019, 01:26:53 AM
I don't know exactly what point you're making to be honest. Are you suggesting that Frank chose to wear one or was forced to wear one? Regardless I'm not sure I'd want to be drawing any comparisons between Frank, who's a pretty sound guy, and Roy Keane who I don't actually know but who seems to be a bully and a pretty nasty piece of work

I'd imagine Frank chose to wear a poppy.
However there are influences in the workplace , in the public eye particularly , that affect that choice. Would Frank be wearing a poppy if he had remained around Newry for his work?
The poppy campaign is a charity for an honourable cause, however it has been hijacked by some.
I don't like the expectation on those in the public eye to wear one, and the abusive treatment of James McClean  over it , is clearly racist, yet not one prominent organisation has called it out, To my knowledge. It'll be interesting to see the support he gets from his new Stoke manager Michael O'Neill.

Is it?

If WW1 was the war to end all wars, like they said, there would be no veterans left now. Therefore, no need for the charity. Of course, the Brits continue to stick their nose in around the world, so there's always a war somewhere.

It would be interesting to know the number who marched in protest of the Iraq invasion in 2003, who also buy poppies. I'd imagine quite a few. So even though they're against war, they help look after soldiers who were sent there.
That is not a contradiction.

I didn't say it was. But it's very strange all the same.

To me, the whole poppy push is about the British government neglecting their soldiers (not that I care much for them tbh) and it's the ordinary people who fund the soldiers post-war needs.
That is exactly it. It is a get out for the Government of the day, an opportunity for them to pretend they give a damn about all the dead and damaged their policies have caused and whom they have neglected for the other 334 days.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2019, 11:42:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 14, 2019, 11:09:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 13, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 13, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 13, 2019, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 13, 2019, 01:26:53 AM
I don't know exactly what point you're making to be honest. Are you suggesting that Frank chose to wear one or was forced to wear one? Regardless I'm not sure I'd want to be drawing any comparisons between Frank, who's a pretty sound guy, and Roy Keane who I don't actually know but who seems to be a bully and a pretty nasty piece of work

I'd imagine Frank chose to wear a poppy.
However there are influences in the workplace , in the public eye particularly , that affect that choice. Would Frank be wearing a poppy if he had remained around Newry for his work?
The poppy campaign is a charity for an honourable cause, however it has been hijacked by some.
I don't like the expectation on those in the public eye to wear one, and the abusive treatment of James McClean  over it , is clearly racist, yet not one prominent organisation has called it out, To my knowledge. It'll be interesting to see the support he gets from his new Stoke manager Michael O'Neill.

Is it?

If WW1 was the war to end all wars, like they said, there would be no veterans left now. Therefore, no need for the charity. Of course, the Brits continue to stick their nose in around the world, so there's always a war somewhere.

It would be interesting to know the number who marched in protest of the Iraq invasion in 2003, who also buy poppies. I'd imagine quite a few. So even though they're against war, they help look after soldiers who were sent there.
That is not a contradiction.

I didn't say it was. But it's very strange all the same.

To me, the whole poppy push is about the British government neglecting their soldiers (not that I care much for them tbh) and it's the ordinary people who fund the soldiers post-war needs.
That is exactly it. It is a get out for the Government of the day, an opportunity for them to pretend they give a damn about all the dead and damaged their policies have caused and whom they have neglected for the other 334 days.

The charity is a money making machine, like all large charities about. they work for a great cause and the people running them earn huge amounts of money...

What's happen to the poppy charity and it seems to be a recent thing, past 30 years, is people taking ownership of it, rather it being for what it was set up to do at the beginning (world wars) its been hijacked to elevate the  neglect the governments duty in looking after service men that they have sent to wars.

These wars, rightly or wrongly in most cases, is not the fault of the lads that serve in the army, the army is a way out for some kids and an opportunity to gain work/education and experience.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Pub Bore on October 28, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
Is this thread a bit late in taking off this year?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 28, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
Is this thread a bit late in taking off this year?

I've noticed it only on tv, with the masks and visors its just not as noticeable and less people in the streets would reduce it
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: RedHand88 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
Any poppy masks floating about? Poppy visors? Poppy PPE? Theres a market for it surely.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 01:12:30 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
Any poppy masks floating about? Poppy visors? Poppy PPE? Theres a market for it surely.

Seen a Union Jack one!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 28, 2020, 02:04:53 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 28, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
Is this thread a bit late in taking off this year?

I only saw Jeff Stelling wearing one on Saturday when I was flicking through the channels. I presume the panel were wearing them too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on October 28, 2020, 02:08:44 PM
Some MP lad was wearing one last week that was the size of a side plate.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: lurganblue on October 28, 2020, 02:20:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 01:12:30 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
Any poppy masks floating about? Poppy visors? Poppy PPE? Theres a market for it surely.

Seen a Union Jack one!

UDR one in Lisburn today.  They always were trend setters.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: RedHand88 on October 28, 2020, 03:42:56 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on October 28, 2020, 02:20:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 01:12:30 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 28, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
Any poppy masks floating about? Poppy visors? Poppy PPE? Theres a market for it surely.

Seen a Union Jack one!

UDR one in Lisburn today.  They always were trend setters.

Shhtap!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 28, 2020, 05:35:27 PM
The annual James McClean bashing will be starting any minute.

There'll be no taking the knee or similar in support of him though.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 28, 2020, 05:42:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2020, 05:35:27 PM
The annual James McClean bashing will be starting any minute.

There'll be no taking the knee or similar in support of him though.

Of course there will be no support. The double standards by the English FA and their players is laughable. They are quick to point the finger at the Bulgarians etc but wouldn't think twice about walking off to any anti Catholic bigotry from their own supporters
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: qwerty123 on October 31, 2020, 11:18:40 PM
Paul O'Connell...I never thought I would see the day
:(
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2020, 11:37:05 PM
What else would ya expect from rugger types?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 31, 2020, 11:40:20 PM
Quote from: qwerty123 on October 31, 2020, 11:18:40 PM
Paul O'Connell...I never thought I would see the day
:(

w**ker.. pity
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on October 31, 2020, 11:43:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2020, 11:37:05 PM
What else would ya expect from rugger types?

I was just going to ask who he was.

What did he do anyway?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 01, 2020, 12:12:34 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 11:52:41 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 31, 2020, 11:43:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2020, 11:37:05 PM
What else would ya expect from rugger types?

I was just going to ask who he was.

What did he do anyway?
Leading figure in Catholic emancipation. They named a prominent Dublin street after him.
Huge blow this.

Deary me. Was he good at throwball then?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: marty34 on November 01, 2020, 09:48:55 AM
The same people who are giving out out about O'Connell are the same people who use 'northern ireland' or 'ni' in their terminology on here.

How ironic?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 01, 2020, 10:36:38 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 01, 2020, 09:48:55 AM
The same people who are giving out out about O'Connell are the same people who use 'northern ireland' or 'ni' in their terminology on here.

How ironic?

Why do people confuse separate issues and put them under 1 banner.. Many prefer to use "north of ireland" but will refer to NI on occasions , for convenience and whether we like it or not that's established nomenclature for this place in international law. Opinions on wearing a poppy are hardly tied up in terminology around politics here.
I totally respect anyone's right to wear a poppy and admire many of my friends who choose to wear one each year . However I think the valid principle behind choosing to wear a poppy is totally undermined by the expectation , promoted by the BBC (to whom we have to pay a licence fee, and according to the GFA should equally respect both identities here) , that everybody should wear one on TV, and therefore leaving those that don't , exposed to racist abuse. If Paul O'Connell walks about limerick every November wearing a poppy , for family reasons for example , I'll totally support him . However if he succumbs to the default expectation by the BBC and others that he wears one on TV, then he is actually isolating James McClean's principled stance. It could be argued also that he is disrespecting the poppy by effectively only wearing one  because his paymasters basically insist on it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 01, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
The BBC are the British government's propaganda machine, and they have created a poppy fascism which has led to people like John Snow being abused for not wearing one. The FA have adapted this position too, which has led to McClean being continually abused and insulted since 2011, and not just around Remembrance Day neither. Poppies should be nowhere near football shirts, nor should there be poppy wreaths/bugles/minute silences etc at football matches either.

It all reminds me of GWB's statement "you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists". It's basically the same with the poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 01, 2020, 11:01:18 AM
I wonder will Sidey, Oisin and Marty have their poppies on today, them working for the BBC and all that?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 01, 2020, 11:20:22 AM
Seems that the BRITISH BC Northern Ireland don't insist on poppy wearing.
For Marty and other Shinners who negotiated and support the GFA   How many times is the term "Northern Ireland" used in that agreement?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
Quote from: qwerty123 on October 31, 2020, 11:18:40 PM
Paul O'Connell...I never thought I would see the day
:(

I have have no problem with POC choosing to wear a poppy.
I would have a problem with the BBC if they insisted on him wearing it.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 12:37:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 01, 2020, 11:01:18 AM
I wonder will Sidey, Oisin and Marty have their poppies on today, them working for the BBC and all that?

Who really cares??

If they wear them there will be assholes with their twitter accounts primed to give them abuse.
If they don't wear them there will be assholes with their twitter accounts primed to give them abuse.

Most people will just get in with their lives
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 12:42:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 01, 2020, 11:20:22 AM
Seems that the BRITISH BC Northern Ireland don't insist on poppy wearing.
For Marty and other Shinners who negotiated and support the GFA   How many times is the term "Northern Ireland" used in that agreement?

You want someone to count the number of times the term Northern Ireland is used in the Agreement? To what end?

Unbelievable that people get their knickers in a twist over people using the term Northern Ireland to refer to Northern Ireland
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: restorepride on November 01, 2020, 12:45:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 12:37:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 01, 2020, 11:01:18 AM
I wonder will Sidey, Oisin and Marty have their poppies on today, them working for the BBC and all that?

Who really cares??

If they wear them there will be assholes with their twitter accounts primed to give them abuse.
If they don't wear them there will be assholes with their twitter accounts primed to give them abuse.

Most people will just get in with their lives
[/qu
Leonard Cohen does!  That is why he recorded Kevin Barry.  100 years today - less we forget and all that.  The British killed many innocent people in recent times, poppy donations also go to the soldiers who pulled the triggers - there should be no poppies.   
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: restorepride on November 01, 2020, 12:48:01 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 12:42:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 01, 2020, 11:20:22 AM
Seems that the BRITISH BC Northern Ireland don't insist on poppy wearing.
For Marty and other Shinners who negotiated and support the GFA   How many times is the term "Northern Ireland" used in that agreement?

You want someone to count the number of times the term Northern Ireland is used in the Agreement? To what end?

Unbelievable that people get their knickers in a twist over people using the term Northern Ireland to refer to Northern Ireland
I don't wear knickers there so no twist but many refuse to recognise it as a democratic entity.  After Brexit it may not even be an entity!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 01, 2020, 01:04:25 PM
How many of those voted for the GFA which democratically legitimised the existence of said place ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 01:26:22 PM
Quote from: restorepride on November 01, 2020, 12:45:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 12:37:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 01, 2020, 11:01:18 AM
I wonder will Sidey, Oisin and Marty have their poppies on today, them working for the BBC and all that?

Who really cares??

If they wear them there will be assholes with their twitter accounts primed to give them abuse.
If they don't wear them there will be assholes with their twitter accounts primed to give them abuse.

Most people will just get in with their lives
[/qu
Leonard Cohen does!  That is why he recorded Kevin Barry.  100 years today - less we forget and all that.  The British killed many innocent people in recent times, poppy donations also go to the soldiers who pulled the triggers - there should be no poppies.

Leonard Cohen cares whether Mark Sidebottom wears a poppy????

Chill man and think that one over
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 01:28:53 PM
Quote from: restorepride on November 01, 2020, 12:48:01 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 12:42:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 01, 2020, 11:20:22 AM
Seems that the BRITISH BC Northern Ireland don't insist on poppy wearing.
For Marty and other Shinners who negotiated and support the GFA   How many times is the term "Northern Ireland" used in that agreement?

You want someone to count the number of times the term Northern Ireland is used in the Agreement? To what end?

Unbelievable that people get their knickers in a twist over people using the term Northern Ireland to refer to Northern Ireland
I don't wear knickers there so no twist but many refuse to recognise it as a democratic entity.  After Brexit it may not even be an entity!!

Well we can all agree that the principle of consent was roundly supported in the GFA triggered referenda. And that principle is enduring
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 01:29:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 01, 2020, 01:04:25 PM
How many of those voted for the GFA which democratically legitimised the existence of said place ?

They say there is no such thing as a stupid question.......
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 01, 2020, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 01, 2020, 11:01:18 AM
I wonder will Sidey, Oisin and Marty have their poppies on today, them working for the BBC and all that?
That makes it even worse,- when the Paddys are commentating on their own sport , bbc would be stupid  On making it an issue. However some will remember Donna Traynor being harassed over the poppy on bbc news ni years ago.
I would say a tiny percentage of the overall population of the UK , never mind NI , wear a poppy, yet almost everyone wears one on the BBC. That is not representative and doesn't sit easy with many of us.
Unless Paul O'Connell wears one on the street every year, he deserves to be questioned on wearing one on TV. Such decisions leave James mcclean out to dry in the face of racist abuse.
Though I admire the fact that Rugby is an All Ireland sport , lets be honest, many Rugby players and supporters come from the privileged classist background of Rugby playing schools. Therefore Tbf , people like Paul O'Connell are not representative of most people on this island. Paul probably made a decision, that he wasn't prepared to risk the ongoing "easy-money" gig of TV punditry,  by being principled over the poppy, or maybe he just doesn't care. He's entitled to make that decision , but those who have a different view are entitled to call it out.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 01, 2020, 05:22:48 PM
This nonsense again. Marty has blathered on before and how much of a monster chuckie he is because he's never said Northern Ireland in his life. Anyone who has ain't no Republican.

Insecurity of the highest order.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: restorepride on November 01, 2020, 06:43:02 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 01:26:22 PM
Quote from: restorepride on November 01, 2020, 12:45:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 01, 2020, 12:37:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 01, 2020, 11:01:18 AM
I wonder will Sidey, Oisin and Marty have their poppies on today, them working for the BBC and all that?

Who really cares??

If they wear them there will be assholes with their twitter accounts primed to give them abuse.
If they don't wear them there will be assholes with their twitter accounts primed to give them abuse.

Most people will just get in with their lives
[/qu
Leonard Cohen does!  That is why he recorded Kevin Barry.  100 years today - less we forget and all that.  The British killed many innocent people in recent times, poppy donations also go to the soldiers who pulled the triggers - there should be no poppies.

Leonard Cohen cares whether Mark Sidebottom wears a poppy????

Chill man and think that one over
You haven't heard Cohen's version of 'Kevin Barry'?  Very clear what he thinks.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: screenexile on November 01, 2020, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: qwerty123 on October 31, 2020, 11:18:40 PM
Paul O'Connell...I never thought I would see the day
:(

Roy Keane as well 2 former Ireland captains!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Christ we need to get a grip here. The Poppy is only contentious here because of the army's deployment in the troubles and the fact that it is used by Unionists as a political symbol. Across the water it is just another charity that does much needed work with army veterans often neglected by the very government the fought for. Whatever issue I have with the army here, I have to recognise that in Britain they are mainly working class lads with little opportunity and it resonates with the public. As such if Paul O'Connell chooses to work for the BBC and is required to wear a poppy, what of it. He presumably needs to earn a crust. We need a slightly more mature approach.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2020, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Christ we need to get a grip here. The Poppy is only contentious here because of the army's deployment in the troubles and the fact that it is used by Unionists as a political symbol. Across the water it is just another charity that does much needed work with army veterans often neglected by the very government the fought for. Whatever issue I have with the army here, I have to recognise that in Britain they are mainly working class lads with little opportunity and it resonates with the public. As such if Paul O'Connell chooses to work for the BBC and is required to wear a poppy, what of it. He presumably needs to earn a crust. We need a slightly more mature approach.

The army's behaviour here is just one of the issues.

The poppy is pushed by the British govt and their propaganda machine (BBC) to help ex soldiers so they don't have to. So even if the average British person doesn't agree with recent conflicts (eg. millions protested against Iraq invasion), they are still indirectly funding the war machine. While the British govt wilfully neglect their ex servicemen.

If there were no wars after WW2, the poppy would indeed be about remembrance, as there would be very little ex servicemen alive today needing the Appeal's assistance, and therefore in a year or two, no need to raise funds at all. But there's always a war somewhere, and so there will always be ex soldiers needing help.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 02, 2020, 12:18:29 PM
Take your pick of any conflict from the timeline of constant British imperial engagements

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2014/feb/11/britain-100-years-of-conflict (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2014/feb/11/britain-100-years-of-conflict)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 02, 2020, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Christ we need to get a grip here. The Poppy is only contentious here because of the army's deployment in the troubles and the fact that it is used by Unionists as a political symbol. Across the water it is just another charity that does much needed work with army veterans often neglected by the very government the fought for. Whatever issue I have with the army here, I have to recognise that in Britain they are mainly working class lads with little opportunity and it resonates with the public. As such if Paul O'Connell chooses to work for the BBC and is required to wear a poppy, what of it. He presumably needs to earn a crust. We need a slightly more mature approach.
There is plenty of criticism of poppies and poppy culture in Britain


He shouldn't have to wear a political symbol to earn a living.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fearsiuil on November 02, 2020, 01:58:42 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Christ we need to get a grip here. The Poppy is only contentious here because of the army's deployment in the troubles and the fact that it is used by Unionists as a political symbol. Across the water it is just another charity that does much needed work with army veterans often neglected by the very government the fought for. Whatever issue I have with the army here, I have to recognise that in Britain they are mainly working class lads with little opportunity and it resonates with the public. As such if Paul O'Connell chooses to work for the BBC and is required to wear a poppy, what of it. He presumably needs to earn a crust. We need a slightly more mature approach.
A team of us...and them.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 02:28:28 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 02, 2020, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Christ we need to get a grip here. The Poppy is only contentious here because of the army's deployment in the troubles and the fact that it is used by Unionists as a political symbol. Across the water it is just another charity that does much needed work with army veterans often neglected by the very government the fought for. Whatever issue I have with the army here, I have to recognise that in Britain they are mainly working class lads with little opportunity and it resonates with the public. As such if Paul O'Connell chooses to work for the BBC and is required to wear a poppy, what of it. He presumably needs to earn a crust. We need a slightly more mature approach.
There is plenty of criticism of poppies and poppy culture in Britain


He shouldn't have to wear a political symbol to earn a living.
Its only political here, and is widely respected by the public in Britain.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is money making machine also and they've been smart enough to push their marketing down a government and royal path.

The joke of it all is that the charity is required because the same government neglected their ex army injured soldiers.

The fact that here in the north the UDA RUC UDR used it to promote their own 'war' is the reason why nationalist living here feel a grievance towards the poppy, for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 02, 2020, 03:07:01 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 02:28:28 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 02, 2020, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Christ we need to get a grip here. The Poppy is only contentious here because of the army's deployment in the troubles and the fact that it is used by Unionists as a political symbol. Across the water it is just another charity that does much needed work with army veterans often neglected by the very government the fought for. Whatever issue I have with the army here, I have to recognise that in Britain they are mainly working class lads with little opportunity and it resonates with the public. As such if Paul O'Connell chooses to work for the BBC and is required to wear a poppy, what of it. He presumably needs to earn a crust. We need a slightly more mature approach.
There is plenty of criticism of poppies and poppy culture in Britain


He shouldn't have to wear a political symbol to earn a living.
Its only political here, and is widely respected by the public in Britain.

Have to say I agree with MR, I tend to associate the poppy with genuine people commemorating the world war dead, or other military deaths, and I totally support that. My bugbear however is the treatment of McClean.
Just to clarify "Apples" , you are implying that , calling out the racist abuse of James McClean, effectively endorsed by Irish people who wear a poppy on TV because they're "earning a crust" Is immature? It reminds me of "knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing".
I Totally respect the argument re British working class joining their army, and I think they are often exploited and deserve support from their government as opposed to having to depend on charity donations. I also can understand those with family connections in the army, or simply British patriots supporting a British cause, but I resent the implication that  challenging Selective poppy wearing by Irish people is immature. The BLM movement reinforces the evidence that if you call out racism , it has a positive effect . Mcclean Tbf had the courage to respectfully explain his reasons for not wearing the poppy. Any mature analysis would respect McClean's reasoning . I'd love to hear Paul O'Connell explain his rationale for wearing one (and mcclean has clearly said he supports anyone's right to do so) , but also back McClean's right not to wear one. I can not understand how the racist attitudes towards Mcclean seem to be accepted across the board, even by his fellow Irish sporting internationals. No wonder Our national "teams" rarely succeed. Maybe we could learn something from
Our British neighbours re patriotism , loyalty and support for our own?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 03:23:09 PM
Racists will find anything to push their agenda.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2020, 03:26:55 PM
I believe ye're  soccer man Seamus Coleman laid a wreath yesterday before an Everton soccer match.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 02, 2020, 03:37:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 03:23:09 PM
Racists will find anything to push their agenda.

Agreed, Would just like to see more people call out the racist attitude towards McClean. Interestingly I've heard more English people support him than Irish people.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2020, 04:20:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is money making machine also and they've been smart enough to push their marketing down a government and royal path.

The joke of it all is that the charity is required because the same government neglected their ex army injured soldiers.

The fact that here in the north the UDA RUC UDR used it to promote their own 'war' is the reason why nationalist living here feel a grievance towards the poppy, for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.

You're right about the charity being needed because the British govt neglect their service men. The appeal is pushed in the current climate with reference to current wars/soldiers, with "our boys do such a good job for our freedom" and such balls, so people are indirectly funding military campaigns by buying a poppy, even if they protest against them.

But like I said, if all wars had stopped after ww2, all servicemen are nearly all gone. Then the Appeal would be all about commemoration for those who died, not helping ex soldiers, so thecharity would only need to cover the costs of actually making the poppies (10p each or whatever).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is money making machine also and they've been smart enough to push their marketing down a government and royal path.

The joke of it all is that the charity is required because the same government neglected their ex army injured soldiers.

The fact that here in the north the UDA RUC UDR used it to promote their own 'war' is the reason why nationalist living here feel a grievance towards the poppy, for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.
Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 06:52:25 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Christ we need to get a grip here. The Poppy is only contentious here because of the army's deployment in the troubles and the fact that it is used by Unionists as a political symbol. Across the water it is just another charity that does much needed work with army veterans often neglected by the very government the fought for. Whatever issue I have with the army here, I have to recognise that in Britain they are mainly working class lads with little opportunity and it resonates with the public. As such if Paul O'Connell chooses to work for the BBC and is required to wear a poppy, what of it. He presumably needs to earn a crust. We need a slightly more mature approach.
Why can that not also apply to working class folk in NI who have generations of family members who have also served in the military?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.
Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  ;) )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.
Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  ;) )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.
Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
I feel that the UDR have a lot to answer too over the years and it's been well documented, the RUC didn't cover themselves in glory either so you can understand why certain sections will have that attitude.

This is where the poppy in the north became a them and us thing, remembrance for the Army during those wars I've mentioned is ok (for me) bringing it up to date and involving the police, who by their own words were fighting criminality rather than being in a war, just loses respect in some areas
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 02, 2020, 09:49:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
I feel that the UDR have a lot to answer too over the years and it's been well documented, the RUC didn't cover themselves in glory either so you can understand why certain sections will have that attitude.

This is where the poppy in the north became a them and us thing, remembrance for the Army during those wars I've mentioned is ok (for me) bringing it up to date and involving the police, who by their own words were fighting criminality rather than being in a war, just loses respect in some areas

I have to say I agree with michaelg, in that it's unfair to assume that most people here wear the poppy to annoy nationalists. Though I'm sure it happens , it's not my experience, and I admire my friends who wear it as an act of respectful rememberence. That said , MR is correct in saying that despite the view of political unionism and indeed civic unionism , that the RUC and UDR are uncontroversial heroes , that is not the way they are viewed by the vast majority of nationalists. In fact I can't think of anyone from the perceived nationalist community who views them through the rose-tinted glasses unionism is wearing. We have been waiting for years for unionism to reflect on the role of UDR/RUC and admit their considerable failings , but unfortunately  it hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 02, 2020, 10:03:59 PM

Quote from: 6th sam on November 02, 2020, 09:49:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
I feel that the UDR have a lot to answer too over the years and it's been well documented, the RUC didn't cover themselves in glory either so you can understand why certain sections will have that attitude.

This is where the poppy in the north became a them and us thing, remembrance for the Army during those wars I've mentioned is ok (for me) bringing it up to date and involving the police, who by their own words were fighting criminality rather than being in a war, just loses respect in some areas

I have to say I agree with michaelg, in that it's unfair to assume that most people here wear the poppy to annoy nationalists. Though I'm sure it happens , it's not my experience, and I admire my friends who wear it as an act of respectful rememberence. That said , MR is correct in saying that despite the view of political unionism and indeed civic unionism , that the RUC and UDR are uncontroversial heroes , that is not the way they are viewed by the vast majority of nationalists. In fact I can't think of anyone from the perceived nationalist community who views them through the rose-tinted glasses unionism is wearing. We have been waiting for years for unionism to reflect on the role of UDR/RUC and admit their considerable failings , but unfortunately  it hasn't happened yet.
You're living in a cloud cuckoo land where with some expectation  "one waits for unionism to reflect on the role of UDR/RUC and admit their considerable failings". 

It is a fundamental belief among Unionists that the RUC and UDR acted honorably in defense of the realm and the union with England. There is no other option, even if one presents incontrovertible evidence of blatant collusion between  sectarian paramilitary thugs  and UDR/RUC/ British Army, it is simply not believed.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2020, 10:09:49 PM
Oh it's believed alright. It's just not admitted, and never will be.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: restorepride on November 02, 2020, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.
Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  ;) )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.
Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.
You have a serious amount of reading to do then!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: restorepride on November 02, 2020, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.
Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  ;) )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.
Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.
You have a serious amount of reading to do then!!
Thought this was a good article a few weeks back by Trevor Ringland.  Unfortunately it can't all be accessed from link below, but provided a bit of balance and perspective that is often omitted on here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/broadcasters-have-a-duty-to-reflect-that-our-history-is-complicated-unquiet-graves-didnt-do-that-39661398.html
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: dec on November 02, 2020, 11:08:45 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: restorepride on November 02, 2020, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.
Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  ;) )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.
Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.
You have a serious amount of reading to do then!!
Thought this was a good article a few weeks back by Trevor Ringland.  Unfortunately it can't all be accessed from link below, but provided a bit of balance and perspective that is often omitted on here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/broadcasters-have-a-duty-to-reflect-that-our-history-is-complicated-unquiet-graves-didnt-do-that-39661398.html

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/belfast-telegraph/20201024/281917365572205
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: restorepride on November 02, 2020, 11:15:28 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: restorepride on November 02, 2020, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.
Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  ;) )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.
Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.
You have a serious amount of reading to do then!!
Thought this was a good article a few weeks back by Trevor Ringland.  Unfortunately it can't all be accessed from link below, but provided a bit of balance and perspective that is often omitted on here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/broadcasters-have-a-duty-to-reflect-that-our-history-is-complicated-unquiet-graves-didnt-do-that-39661398.html
Balance?! Trevor Ringland???!!  FFS!  "Our history" is only complicated when you want to make it so.   Next thing, it will be a "shared history"!   Can I take your land?  No.  But I'm taking it anyway.  So that is a shared decision?  Well, I did share the decision with you.  Thanks Trevor.   
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 6th sam on November 02, 2020, 11:50:24 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: restorepride on November 02, 2020, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 02, 2020, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.
Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  ;) )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.
Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.
You have a serious amount of reading to do then!!
Thought this was a good article a few weeks back by Trevor Ringland.  Unfortunately it can't all be accessed from link below, but provided a bit of balance and perspective that is often omitted on here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/broadcasters-have-a-duty-to-reflect-that-our-history-is-complicated-unquiet-graves-didnt-do-that-39661398.html

Yes Trevor certainly gives another perspective ,a "unionist" perspective . As far as I can see in that article , he basically rationalises the glenAnne gang and Holy Cross . he tries to present himself as a neutral voice. He's from a unionist background  , which I respect, His dad was in the RUC which subjected him to genuine trauma and anxiety , which I respect . Rationalising glenAnne and holy cross , and yet trying to present himself as a voice of neutrality , I don't respect .
I'm Irish, I don't pretend to be neutral , neither should Trevor be viewed as a neutral despite his brilliance as an Irish rugby international rugby , and his profession as a solicitor . Quoting numbers of death is irrelevant unless subject to analysis. It appears Many Loyalist and even republican killings were directed by British intelligence. The only incontrovertible statistic is that there were over 3000 deaths and all of them were tragic for families and friends. We need to move beyond that and that includes those on the British and Irish side admitting their wrongs and showing genuine remorse. This is long overdue and many victims understandably can't move on until there is that recognition .
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Applesisapples on November 05, 2020, 12:30:09 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 02, 2020, 03:07:01 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 02:28:28 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 02, 2020, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Christ we need to get a grip here. The Poppy is only contentious here because of the army's deployment in the troubles and the fact that it is used by Unionists as a political symbol. Across the water it is just another charity that does much needed work with army veterans often neglected by the very government the fought for. Whatever issue I have with the army here, I have to recognise that in Britain they are mainly working class lads with little opportunity and it resonates with the public. As such if Paul O'Connell chooses to work for the BBC and is required to wear a poppy, what of it. He presumably needs to earn a crust. We need a slightly more mature approach.
There is plenty of criticism of poppies and poppy culture in Britain


He shouldn't have to wear a political symbol to earn a living.
Its only political here, and is widely respected by the public in Britain.

Have to say I agree with MR, I tend to associate the poppy with genuine people commemorating the world war dead, or other military deaths, and I totally support that. My bugbear however is the treatment of McClean.
Just to clarify "Apples" , you are implying that , calling out the racist abuse of James McClean, effectively endorsed by Irish people who wear a poppy on TV because they're "earning a crust" Is immature? It reminds me of "knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing".
I Totally respect the argument re British working class joining their army, and I think they are often exploited and deserve support from their government as opposed to having to depend on charity donations. I also can understand those with family connections in the army, or simply British patriots supporting a British cause, but I resent the implication that  challenging Selective poppy wearing by Irish people is immature. The BLM movement reinforces the evidence that if you call out racism , it has a positive effect . Mcclean Tbf had the courage to respectfully explain his reasons for not wearing the poppy. Any mature analysis would respect McClean's reasoning . I'd love to hear Paul O'Connell explain his rationale for wearing one (and mcclean has clearly said he supports anyone's right to do so) , but also back McClean's right not to wear one. I can not understand how the racist attitudes towards Mcclean seem to be accepted across the board, even by his fellow Irish sporting internationals. No wonder Our national "teams" rarely succeed. Maybe we could learn something from
Our British neighbours re patriotism , loyalty and support for our own?
I am not condoning the racist abuse of James McClean he has a right not to wear a poppy and to be respected. What I am saying is that for most of us we need to respect that the poppy means something to many English people. We need to grow up and stop picking at scabs. We can't change history and I don't condone the actions of the army in Ireland, but 90% of those soldiers sent here would rather have been anywhere else. Irish people committed atrocities also in the name of war. I am older than a lot of posters on here and grew up in this cesspit. I want better for my children and grandchildren.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2020, 12:36:49 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2020, 12:30:09 PM
I am not condoning the racist abuse of James McClean he has a right not to wear a poppy and to be respected. What I am saying is that for most of us we need to respect that the poppy means something to many English people. We need to grow up and stop picking at scabs. We can't change history and I don't condone the actions of the army in Ireland, but 90% of those soldiers sent here would rather have been anywhere else. Irish people committed atrocities also in the name of war. I am older than a lot of posters on here and grew up in this cesspit. I want better for my children and grandchildren.

It was a volunteer army, if you didn't want to be in Ireland you didn't have to join. It is one thing having  fight in your own house, but another to go to someone else's house and start fighting with the people there.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 09, 2020, 11:52:05 AM
None of the dancers on Strictly had a Poppy on their costume last Saturday night.  I know dancers have to be careful with pins and such like but surely though something could have been done.

It's unfortunate that the same-sex couples dancing together means that Jim Wells and DUP folk can no longer watch the program.  This sh1t wouldn't happen on their watch.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 09, 2020, 11:57:23 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 09, 2020, 11:52:05 AM
None of the dancers on Strictly had a Poppy on their costume last Saturday night.  I know dancers have to be careful with pins and such like but surely though something could have been done.

It's unfortunate that the same-sex couples dancing together means that Jim Wells and DUP folk can no longer watch the program.  This sh1t wouldn't happen on their watch.

/Jim.

lol
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 15, 2020, 10:36:29 PM
The 11th has come and gone. Could O'Rourke and Kavanagh take their poppy pins off?

/Jim
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2020, 11:07:39 PM
I'd a jacket years ago which had a wee red pin on it, and everyone I knew gave me a second look, I thought he'd same thing lol!

I wonder did RTE force them?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2020, 11:21:04 PM
Had to look twice myself
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: BennyCake on November 15, 2020, 11:35:59 PM
I don't think they were poppies. Hard to tell, my signals shit
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: larryin89 on November 16, 2020, 10:05:56 AM
Noticed it but I'm not sure was it actually a poppy but perhaps it was ?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: blewuporstuffed on November 16, 2020, 10:26:41 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on November 16, 2020, 10:05:56 AM
Noticed it but I'm not sure was it actually a poppy but perhaps it was ?
I dont think it was , i think its just the lapel pin of those terrible suits they get supplied with
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Snapchap on November 16, 2020, 12:12:00 PM
It was a Benetti Suits pin. You'll never see Cavanagh on TV without one. He's a brand ambassador, as is Tomás Ó'Sé. O'Rourke possibly is too.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 16, 2020, 12:12:00 PM
It was a Benetti Suits pin. You'll never see Cavanagh on TV without one. He's a brand ambassador, as is Tomás Ó'Sé. O'Rourke possibly is too.

Like I said earlier I had similar pin. Some quare looks up the Falls!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 15, 2021, 01:53:42 PM
And so it starts for this year: 

M&S not selling Poppies yet:  https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1448942930413096967 (https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1448942930413096967)

/Jim.


Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: sensethetone on November 02, 2021, 09:18:30 AM
Was in Ballymena, saw one(1).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2021, 10:08:08 AM
Quote from: sensethetone on November 02, 2021, 09:18:30 AM
Was in Ballymena, saw one(1).

I'm working in Ballymena haven't seen one, was expecting heaps

Was in Manchester last week and seen one
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: imtommygunn on November 02, 2021, 10:20:04 AM
There has to be a poppy mask. If not why not.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: toby47 on November 02, 2021, 10:31:15 AM
Seen loads over the weekend. Belfast, Hillsborough, Lisburn. I suppose that's no shock given the locations.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2021, 10:39:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 02, 2021, 10:20:04 AM
There has to be a poppy mask. If not why not.

I'm sure that shop on the Shankill has them up and running!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 11:59:33 AM
Wear St Patrick's Day Badges or a bit of shamrock on yer geansai's. That will show them, feckin Prods ;D

All joking aside, if a united Ireland does happen, how in the name of Jaysus will our Gardai put manners on youse feral hoors. The Gardai policing a parade on the 12th in & around Belfast. There will be some blue flu then, unless they decide to go all Lansdowne Road 1995 on it.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2021, 12:03:38 PM
Seems there will be no Police in the UI going by comments on the other thread  ::)
The 12th parades in Leitrim, Cavan and Monaghan should be interesting!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: bogball88 on November 02, 2021, 12:37:06 PM
Few in work today-including one lad who had a brooch style one on that was the size of a tea saucer-thought it was only females who went for the brooch design
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 02, 2021, 01:38:51 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 11:59:33 AM
Wear St Patrick's Day Badges or a bit of shamrock on yer geansai's. That will show them, feckin Prods ;D

All joking aside, if a united Ireland does happen, how in the name of Jaysus will our Gardai put manners on youse feral hoors. The Gardai policing a parade on the 12th in & around Belfast. There will be some blue flu then, unless they decide to go all Lansdowne Road 1995 on it.

Wouldnt such a deal mean the PSNI would just become Gardai and police away as normal? The southern Gardai would be staying well clear thats for sure, sure they wouldn't even tackle a couple of travelers bare knuckle boxing.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 01:47:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 02, 2021, 01:38:51 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 11:59:33 AM
Wear St Patrick's Day Badges or a bit of shamrock on yer geansai's. That will show them, feckin Prods ;D

All joking aside, if a united Ireland does happen, how in the name of Jaysus will our Gardai put manners on youse feral hoors. The Gardai policing a parade on the 12th in & around Belfast. There will be some blue flu then, unless they decide to go all Lansdowne Road 1995 on it.

Wouldnt such a deal mean the PSNI would just become Gardai and police away as normal? The southern Gardai would be staying well clear thats for sure, sure they wouldn't even tackle a couple of travelers bare knuckle boxing.

Yes, pity all the same, would be some culture shock for a sheltered gascun from Mayo.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on November 02, 2021, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: bogball88 on November 02, 2021, 12:37:06 PM
Few in work today-including one lad who had a brooch style one on that was the size of a tea saucer-thought it was only females who went for the brooch design

Think the Shemales are big on the brooch now
Wouldn't be my cup of cha but each to their own, bigotry aside

(https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/files/2017/12/10776785055_bd7d4224f2_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: tiempo on November 02, 2021, 03:26:26 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 01:47:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 02, 2021, 01:38:51 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 11:59:33 AM
Wear St Patrick's Day Badges or a bit of shamrock on yer geansai's. That will show them, feckin Prods ;D

All joking aside, if a united Ireland does happen, how in the name of Jaysus will our Gardai put manners on youse feral hoors. The Gardai policing a parade on the 12th in & around Belfast. There will be some blue flu then, unless they decide to go all Lansdowne Road 1995 on it.

Wouldnt such a deal mean the PSNI would just become Gardai and police away as normal? The southern Gardai would be staying well clear thats for sure, sure they wouldn't even tackle a couple of travelers bare knuckle boxing.

Yes, pity all the same, would be some culture shock for a sheltered gascun from Mayo.

We cleared that one up years ago, Free State = demilitrised zone for quislings
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Armagh18 on November 02, 2021, 03:47:56 PM
Quote from: tiempo on November 02, 2021, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: bogball88 on November 02, 2021, 12:37:06 PM
Few in work today-including one lad who had a brooch style one on that was the size of a tea saucer-thought it was only females who went for the brooch design

Think the Shemales are big on the brooch now
Wouldn't be my cup of cha but each to their own, bigotry aside

(https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/files/2017/12/10776785055_bd7d4224f2_o.jpg)
As much as I don't like Arlene, posts like that are helping no one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Snapchap on November 02, 2021, 03:50:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 02, 2021, 12:03:38 PM
Seems there will be no Police in the UI going by comments on the other thread  ::)

Curious as to what post from the other thread has led to you that interpretation?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rois on November 15, 2021, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on November 15, 2021, 06:33:30 PM
BBC Ni play the sectarian card yet again and try to bully Donna Traynor into wear a poppy against her will. She has resigned.
Hopefully the tribunal gets played out in full for the bigots running BBC NI to be seen in their true colours.
Is that what the story is? 
I noted that they have also made Tim McGarry refer to Derry as Londonderry in his intro to The Blame Game in the last two episodes.  Both times he's almost tried to disguise it in his tone.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Hereiam on November 15, 2021, 10:58:36 PM
I have noticed that the cricket scores are getting pushed to the front of the sports bulletins, did I read somewhere that a department was set up by Westminster to promote Britishness within the UK
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 16, 2021, 08:33:13 AM
Quote from: Rois on November 15, 2021, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on November 15, 2021, 06:33:30 PM
BBC Ni play the sectarian card yet again and try to bully Donna Traynor into wear a poppy against her will. She has resigned.
Hopefully the tribunal gets played out in full for the bigots running BBC NI to be seen in their true colours.
Is that what the story is? 
I noted that they have also made Tim McGarry refer to Derry as Londonderry in his intro to The Blame Game in the last two episodes.  Both times he's almost tried to disguise it in his tone.

Is that why she resigned? I didnt realise that was the background. That is taking the poppy fascism to a new level. Fair play to her for having some principles, I hope she takes them to the cleaners.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2021, 08:45:48 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 16, 2021, 08:33:13 AM
Quote from: Rois on November 15, 2021, 10:48:54 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on November 15, 2021, 06:33:30 PM
BBC Ni play the sectarian card yet again and try to bully Donna Traynor into wear a poppy against her will. She has resigned.
Hopefully the tribunal gets played out in full for the bigots running BBC NI to be seen in their true colours.
Is that what the story is? 
I noted that they have also made Tim McGarry refer to Derry as Londonderry in his intro to The Blame Game in the last two episodes.  Both times he's almost tried to disguise it in his tone.

Is it though? I've not seen it anywhere else
Is that why she resigned? I didnt realise that was the background. That is taking the poppy fascism to a new level. Fair play to her for having some principles, I hope she takes them to the cleaners.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: gallsman on November 16, 2021, 08:49:23 AM
Time of year makes it look suspect but I heard the DT issue is a contractual dispute more then anything.

Cricket prominent in sports bulletins because there's a world cup on, I imagine. It's not always a big conspiracy against us, lads.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 16, 2021, 11:20:51 AM
It'll all become clear when it reaches the tribunal although am I right in thinking that if the BBC was to agree a settlement there can be a confidentiality clause?  I know she did refuse to wear a poppy some years ago and was subjected to trolling as a result but I thought she had been wearing one since.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: screenexile on November 04, 2022, 10:49:45 PM
Mescal not wearing one on Graham Norton... fair play!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2022, 10:52:07 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2022, 10:49:45 PM
Mescal not wearing one on Graham Norton... fair play!!
Just came on for this! He'll be getting death threats by midnight.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 04, 2022, 10:53:56 PM
Not a poppy in sight on The Blame Game
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AustinPowers on November 04, 2022, 11:16:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 04, 2022, 10:53:56 PM
Not a poppy in sight on The Blame Game

No doubt Big Jeff or Bryson  will be tweeting about that

Plus  the fact there's  too many taigs on the panel . (Actually now that I think about it,   that was brought up before by some unionist )
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2022, 11:30:13 PM
Paul Mescal either, the rebel from Clare!!

The singer never had one also
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on November 04, 2022, 11:41:18 PM
 He not Kildare?! Just came on to shout Up Kildare! but ill retract if need be 😃
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2022, 11:45:19 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 04, 2022, 11:41:18 PM
He not Kildare?! Just came on to shout Up Kildare! but ill retract if need be 😃

Could be, though that thick country accent could have said Kildare
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on November 04, 2022, 11:57:47 PM
Think he played Kildare Minors could be wrong
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: clarshack on November 05, 2022, 12:01:26 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 04, 2022, 11:57:47 PM
Think he played Kildare Minors could be wrong

Definitely Kildare
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Armagh18 on November 05, 2022, 08:29:08 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on November 04, 2022, 11:16:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 04, 2022, 10:53:56 PM
Not a poppy in sight on The Blame Game

No doubt Big Jeff or Bryson  will be tweeting about that

Plus  the fact there's  too many taigs on the panel everywhere . (Actually now that I think about it,   that was brought up before by some unionist )
Fixed that for ye! ;)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 05, 2022, 08:35:55 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2022, 10:49:45 PM
Mescal not wearing one on Graham Norton... fair play!!

And the stick insect beside Paul was wearing a gold poppy. That's dedication for you.

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: highorlow on November 07, 2022, 01:55:58 PM
It's all kicking off on the Joe Duffy show now on RTE1.....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: highorlow on November 07, 2022, 02:04:50 PM
Liveline better balance up the chat here, all west brits with posh accents on glad to wear the poppy...
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AustinPowers on November 07, 2022, 02:36:40 PM
It actually proves how much this  poppy fascism has  spread. Apparently he got loads of  stick online from British people. and now they're talking on IRISH radio  about why Paul Mescal (and James McClean)  didn't wear a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on November 07, 2022, 02:46:21 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on November 07, 2022, 02:36:40 PM
It actually proves how much this  poppy fascism has  spread. Apparently he got loads of  stick online from British people. and now they're talking on IRISH radio  about why Paul Mescal (and James McClean)  didn't wear a poppy.

f**k me I thought Nolan sunk to some depths but Liveline is taking the piss today. 
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: CK_Redhand on November 07, 2022, 03:00:44 PM
How can the English FA justify the printing of the poppy onto (slmost) every player and official kit to UEFA/FIFA and their "no political symbol" stance?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 5times5times on November 07, 2022, 04:17:58 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on November 07, 2022, 02:46:21 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on November 07, 2022, 02:36:40 PM
It actually proves how much this  poppy fascism has  spread. Apparently he got loads of  stick online from British people. and now they're talking on IRISH radio  about why Paul Mescal (and James McClean)  didn't wear a poppy.

f**k me I thought Nolan sunk to some depths but Liveline is taking the piss today.

For us brethren based in central europe, do share!!  ;D
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2022, 05:02:03 PM
When you read the stories about the people GAA clubs are named after you couldn't wear a poppy.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 07, 2022, 05:05:44 PM
I wouldn't wear one no matter what.....but if it was a choice of wearing that or listening to Joe Duffy... :-\
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: From the Bunker on November 07, 2022, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 07, 2022, 05:05:44 PM
I wouldn't wear one no matter what.....but if it was a choice if wearing that ir listening to Joe Duffy... :-\

Katie Hannon was on today instead of the Bould Joe! The difference in presentation. She chaired the debate. Let the contributors talk. No smart quips/digs. You'd be hard pushed to know Katies view(s) on the topic. A proper presenter.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AustinPowers on November 07, 2022, 06:35:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 07, 2022, 05:05:44 PM
I wouldn't wear one no matter what.....but if it was a choice of wearing that or listening to Joe Duffy... :-\

Well You're at  least right about joe Duffy, I  physically can't listen to  that mans voice.  Luckily he wasn't on today

Must add him to the  other thread
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2022, 03:38:50 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/micheal-martin-speaks-about-wearing-a-poppy-i-dont-believe-its-as-controversial-as-perhaps-some-suggest-42137311.html
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 11, 2022, 04:50:57 PM
That dose Brendan O Carroll was on Brit TV recently proudly wearing one. His grandfather was shot dead in his own home in front of his grandmother by the Tans. Odious soup drinking w**kstain.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 11, 2022, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 11, 2022, 04:50:57 PM
That dose Brendan O Carroll was on Brit TV recently proudly wearing one. His grandfather was shot dead in his own home in front of his grandmother by the Tans. Odious soup drinking w**kstain.

England is the only place left that thinks he's funny so he knows where his breads buttered
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on November 11, 2022, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 11, 2022, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 11, 2022, 04:50:57 PM
That dose Brendan O Carroll was on Brit TV recently proudly wearing one. His grandfather was shot dead in his own home in front of his grandmother by the Tans. Odious soup drinking w**kstain.

England is the only place left that thinks he's funny so he knows where his breads buttered

They were the only ones that thought he was ever funny.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2022, 05:29:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2022, 03:38:50 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/micheal-martin-speaks-about-wearing-a-poppy-i-dont-believe-its-as-controversial-as-perhaps-some-suggest-42137311.html

He wore it cos the he wanted to impress the Brits at the meeting. No doubt he took it straight off afterwards. That man stands for nothing, the worst Taoiseach this country ever had in my opinion.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: thebigfella on November 11, 2022, 05:29:48 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on November 11, 2022, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 11, 2022, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 11, 2022, 04:50:57 PM
That dose Brendan O Carroll was on Brit TV recently proudly wearing one. His grandfather was shot dead in his own home in front of his grandmother by the Tans. Odious soup drinking w**kstain.

England is the only place left that thinks he's funny so he knows where his breads buttered

They were the only ones that thought he was ever funny.

I'd rather have a poppy tattooed on my forehead than watch Mrs brown
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2022, 05:33:10 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 11, 2022, 05:29:48 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on November 11, 2022, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 11, 2022, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 11, 2022, 04:50:57 PM
That dose Brendan O Carroll was on Brit TV recently proudly wearing one. His grandfather was shot dead in his own home in front of his grandmother by the Tans. Odious soup drinking w**kstain.

England is the only place left that thinks he's funny so he knows where his breads buttered

They were the only ones that thought he was ever funny.

I'd rather have a poppy tattooed on my forehead than watch Mrs brown
;D

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2022, 05:36:53 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1798#Aftermath

"Presbyterian radicalism was effectively tamed or reconciled to British rule by inclusion in a new Protestant Ascendancy, as opposed to a merely Anglican one. By mid-1798 a schism between the Presbyterians and Catholics had developed, with radical Presbyterians starting to waver in their support for revolution.[46] The government capitalised on this by acting against the Catholics in the radical movement instead of the northern Presbyterians.[46] Prior to the rebellion, anyone who admitted to being a member of the United Irishmen was expelled from the Yeomanry, however former Presbyterian radicals were now able to enlist in it, and those radicals that wavered in support saw it as their chance to reintegrate themselves into society"

Croppies were not allowed into the Yeomanry so no poppies.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AustinPowers on November 11, 2022, 06:07:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 11, 2022, 05:29:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2022, 03:38:50 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/micheal-martin-speaks-about-wearing-a-poppy-i-dont-believe-its-as-controversial-as-perhaps-some-suggest-42137311.html

He wore it cos the he wanted to impress the Brits at the meeting. No doubt he took it straight off afterwards. That man stands for nothing, the worst Taoiseach this country ever had in my opinion.

Quote from: red hander on November 11, 2022, 04:50:57 PM
That dose Brendan O Carroll was on Brit TV recently proudly wearing one. His grandfather was shot dead in his own home in front of his grandmother by the Tans. Odious soup drinking w**kstain.

The term  " gombeens and arselickers" comes to mind again

I have the utmost respect for James McClean , even after years of abuse and threats , still doesn't kowtow to   poppy fascism
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2022, 06:23:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!

You could say that about most topics on this board. But that would just be a waste of everyone's time.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Orior on November 11, 2022, 07:21:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!

Outrage is a strong word.

For me the poppy mafia is a source of amusement.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 07:26:15 PM
Craig Doyle not wearing a poppy, probably his last job on BT!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: red hander on November 11, 2022, 07:44:13 PM
Jim Magilton not bending the knee on the BBC. Fair play (even though he turned out for the failed statelet).
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Saffrongael on November 11, 2022, 07:56:10 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 11, 2022, 07:44:13 PM
Jim Magilton not bending the knee on the BBC. Fair play (even though he turned out for the failed statelet).

And worked for the NI under age teams for years recently so he is happy enough to take their shilling
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on November 11, 2022, 08:00:47 PM
Jaysus lads. Doesnt wear poppy and still gets shit 😃😃
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 08:13:33 PM
Not sure which poppy mafia/fascists are worse? Those who don't want people to wear them or those who are happy too but taking abuse from complete tools online
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Snapchap on November 11, 2022, 10:40:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2022, 03:38:50 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/micheal-martin-speaks-about-wearing-a-poppy-i-dont-believe-its-as-controversial-as-perhaps-some-suggest-42137311.html

"The Republican Party"
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 11:51:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....

I've discussed my views on this numerous times but the same people are shocked/disgusted every year at people wearing a poppy

The outrage is ott but that's just my opinion on a discussion board, I'm free to talk about that?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on November 12, 2022, 12:44:31 AM
I think the point hes making is you do go on a bit 😉😙

So do others. Hugs & kisses. Nite all xo
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2022, 06:26:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 11:51:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....

I've discussed my views on this numerous times but the same people are shocked/disgusted every year at people wearing a poppy

The outrage is ott but that's just my opinion on a discussion board, I'm free to talk about that?

Just because you keep using the word "outrage" doesn't make it even a remotely accurate term.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Brendan on November 12, 2022, 07:31:56 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 11:51:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....

I've discussed my views on this numerous times but the same people are shocked/disgusted every year at people wearing a poppy

The outrage is ott but that's just my opinion on a discussion board, I'm free to talk about that?

I feel the same when it comes to the 11th night bonfires, politicians pretending its a shock and they're so hurt by their posters being displayed, they actively go out of their way to find one so they can depress their outrage. Yes it shouldn't happen but it is never going to change let's face it
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Franko on November 12, 2022, 08:57:36 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....

;D Lost count of the amount of times I've seen him do this
Extremely weird behaviour

Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2022, 09:05:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 12, 2022, 08:57:36 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....

;D Lost count of the amount of times I've seen him do this
Extremely weird behaviour

It's ok to have a different opinion. Not one person gave off about Craig Doyle not wearing a poppy, there are plenty that don't wear them, anyone that does wear a poppy wears it because they want to.

As for the abuse McClean gets it's wrong

Didn't realise you needed permission to post on the threads though
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2022, 09:27:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2022, 09:05:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 12, 2022, 08:57:36 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....

;D Lost count of the amount of times I've seen him do this
Extremely weird behaviour

It's ok to have a different opinion. Not one person gave off about Craig Doyle not wearing a poppy, there are plenty that don't wear them, anyone that does wear a poppy wears it because they want to.

As for the abuse McClean gets it's wrong

Didn't realise you needed permission to post on the threads though

All well and good but at least take people's opinions for what they actually are instead of trying to misrepresent them as being "outraged".
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: AustinPowers on November 12, 2022, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2022, 09:05:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 12, 2022, 08:57:36 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....

;D Lost count of the amount of times I've seen him do this
Extremely weird behaviour

It's ok to have a different opinion. Not one person gave off about Craig Doyle not wearing a poppy, there are plenty that don't wear them, anyone that does wear a poppy wears it because they want to.

As for the abuse McClean gets it's wrong

Didn't realise you needed permission to post on the threads though

Let's face it , the reason McClean has  got abuse for 11 years now (and not just around Poppy time) is all  down to the English FA.  This poppy on shirts thing  , there is no need for it whatsoever.  If they want to have  a minute silence on the date , then do so, I'm sure every player  would  stand for that.

The fa let McClean take flak for years before they even said anything and even then it was  half arsed statement. They allowed that abuse to fester and  grow without any condemnation.  Disgusting.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2022, 11:17:32 AM
Paddy Barnes and these boys taking Queens honours nearly annoys me more.

Nearly .
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: RedHand88 on November 13, 2022, 10:31:22 PM
https://twitter.com/Len_Scap/status/1591887804296212482?s=20&t=HdKpLn6UJd-f4lsWpcw1EQ  (https://twitter.com/Len_Scap/status/1591887804296212482?s=20&t=HdKpLn6UJd-f4lsWpcw1EQ)
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 13, 2022, 11:58:08 PM
Hell no, I take a knighthood, just to rub it up Jeffery D and David Beckham not getting one.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Main Street on November 14, 2022, 12:55:03 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on November 12, 2022, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2022, 09:05:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 12, 2022, 08:57:36 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....

;D Lost count of the amount of times I've seen him do this
Extremely weird behaviour

It's ok to have a different opinion. Not one person gave off about Craig Doyle not wearing a poppy, there are plenty that don't wear them, anyone that does wear a poppy wears it because they want to.

As for the abuse McClean gets it's wrong

Didn't realise you needed permission to post on the threads though

Let's face it , the reason McClean has  got abuse for 11 years now (and not just around Poppy time) is all  down to the English FA.  This poppy on shirts thing  , there is no need for it whatsoever.  If they want to have  a minute silence on the date , then do so, I'm sure every player  would  stand for that.

The fa let McClean take flak for years before they even said anything and even then it was  half arsed statement. They allowed that abuse to fester and  grow without any condemnation.  Disgusting.
When MR2 doesn't care a jot about 'whatever topic', he sure does spend a lot of time on the relevant thread letting everybody know that he doesn't care a jot and keeps an eagle eye on the thread for any responses to his refrain of 'who cares about this shít'.  And when taken to task, he wraps himself in victim hood garb. 'why pick on me?'   'since when do I need permission to post? Is this BIS  - Belfast Imposter Syndrome, or just BS?
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 14, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 13, 2022, 11:58:08 PM
Hell no, I take a knighthood, just to rub it up Geoff D and David Beckham not getting one.

I remember watching a debate between Jeffrey Donaldson and Nuala O'Loan.  No matter how many times she correct him he could not bring himself to refer her as Baroness.  It was very amusing as she picked up on it and would (with a smirk) correct him every time.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: fearsiuil on November 14, 2022, 01:41:10 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 14, 2022, 12:55:03 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on November 12, 2022, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2022, 09:05:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 12, 2022, 08:57:36 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 11, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2022, 06:12:25 PM
Why does anyone  care about someone wearing a poppy? Definitely more things to worry about, but I suppose it's November and the outrage is real!!
MR2s usual "why does anyone care" or other dirivative after going in to said thread lol. Your like the old Boy at the bar listening to some debate at another table, "you have little to bother yous", only you go on to a discussion forum to do it lol. I find it truly bizarre behaviour ;D, its not like the things poster's discuss here consume their daily lives and thoughts ffs. Well maybe the football threads.....

;D Lost count of the amount of times I've seen him do this
Extremely weird behaviour

It's ok to have a different opinion. Not one person gave off about Craig Doyle not wearing a poppy, there are plenty that don't wear them, anyone that does wear a poppy wears it because they want to.

As for the abuse McClean gets it's wrong

Didn't realise you needed permission to post on the threads though

Let's face it , the reason McClean has  got abuse for 11 years now (and not just around Poppy time) is all  down to the English FA.  This poppy on shirts thing  , there is no need for it whatsoever.  If they want to have  a minute silence on the date , then do so, I'm sure every player  would  stand for that.

The fa let McClean take flak for years before they even said anything and even then it was  half arsed statement. They allowed that abuse to fester and  grow without any condemnation.  Disgusting.
When MR2 doesn't care a jot about 'whatever topic', he sure does spend a lot of time on the relevant thread letting everybody know that he doesn't care a jot and keeps an eagle eye on the thread for any responses to his refrain of 'who cares about this shít'.  And when taken to task, he wraps himself in victim hood garb. 'why pick on me?'   'since when do I need permission to post? Is this BIS  - Belfast Imposter Syndrome, or just BS?
He is definitely not obsessed with Liverpool either!!
Title: Re: Poppy Watch
Post by: trailer on November 15, 2022, 08:42:14 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 13, 2022, 11:58:08 PM
Hell no, I take a knighthood, just to rub it up Jeffery D and David Beckham not getting one.

It would put you in same bracket as Arlene Foster, Gavin Williamson, Fred Goodwin and Jimmy Saville!

No thanks.