The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[The Iceman]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

I was staying away from it. Muppet called it God given. Do you agree that muppet cannot correctly make that statement? That Gay people are not definitively born or conceived gay? whether they are or not is moot anyway in my overall point - I'm not victimizing homosexuals - I'm disagreeing with the rationalization and normalization of sodomy.

This is a euphemism for being against gays, isn't that it in a nutshell?

No, not at all. I'm against domestic violence but I am not anti-marriage. I'm against adultery but I don't victimize those caught in the act. I'm against sodomy and I don't victimize gay people.

[muppet]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

We believe that Leviticus was written around 2,700 years ago. It mentions homosexual acts. Thus homosexuals have been around for a very long time. We don't know who wrote Leviticus, but for some strange reason a portion of modern society insist on using it as a sex guide.

You are completely and utterly wrong -typical antichurch argument, We use the new testament, and Jesus the new covenant as a guide. But I have chosen to remove any biblical arguments against sodomy from my arguments. Point to where I have used them please - you continue to pull the church in while I have mentioned them as being forced in to agreement that sodomy is as normative as the marital act.

So far my only argument against sodomy has been scientific.

You use Jesus as a guide?

What was He referring to when He cited Scripture then?

And you brought the Church into this latest discussion, portraying them as the victims naturally.

[muppet]

This is a euphemism for being against gays, isn't that it in a nutshell?

No, not at all. I'm against domestic violence but I am not anti-marriage. I'm against adultery but I don't victimize those caught in the act. I'm against sodomy and I don't victimize gay people.

Wow, so gay sex is to being gay,

as domestic violence is to marriage,

and adultery is to something else.

But of course you are not against gays.  Who do you think you are kidding?

[The Iceman]

I'm not trying to kid anyone - I mean what I say. I have detest nor hatred for any person. I detest and hate sin. Adultery, domestic violence, sodomy.... and lots more.

[muppet]

I'm not trying to kid anyone - I mean what I say. I have detest nor hatred for any person. I detest and hate sin. Adultery, domestic violence, sodomy.... and lots more.

I would argue that your intolerance is a bigger sin, but there you go.

Also, apparently the word 'sodomy' didn't appear in any original Jewish or Christian texts. Your deliberate and persistent use of the word, in place of gay sex, allows other meanings to be derived from the word. For example sodomy also has been used to describe sex with an animal and the Sodomites in the Bible were also believed to have been pedophiles.

[omaghjoe]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

I was staying away from it. Muppet called it God given. Do you agree that muppet cannot correctly make that statement? That Gay people are not definitively born or conceived gay? whether they are or not is moot anyway in my overall point - I'm not victimizing homosexuals - I'm disagreeing with the rationalization and normalization of sodomy.

Yeah he probably should be pulled on it but since especially as I presumed he was said it to goad you with your beliefs. (Only my perception Muppet)

Although his statement about gay people being god made is sort of my stance on the subject so I was probably biased even tho I don't believe its his actual stance.

But as far as "what God made" is a fairly abstract concept and its hard to nail down what it means...science on the other hand deals with the physical world so we can usually be pretty precise about what is correct or incorrect

Also you should be commended for keeping religion away from this while asking hard questions all in face of pretty incessant mudslinging that you are prejustice even tho I don't actually believe you are. There's nothing wrong with an open healthy discussion and Im enjoying it, but I dont feel strongly enuff on it to make a useful contribution.

[J70]

Where does oral sex fit into all this?

And sex toys?

And motor boating?!

[muppet]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

I was staying away from it. Muppet called it God given. Do you agree that muppet cannot correctly make that statement? That Gay people are not definitively born or conceived gay? whether they are or not is moot anyway in my overall point - I'm not victimizing homosexuals - I'm disagreeing with the rationalization and normalization of sodomy.

Yeah he probably should be pulled on it but since especially as I presumed he was said it to goad you with your beliefs. (Only my perception Muppet)

Although his statement about gay people being god made is sort of my stance on the subject so I was probably biased even tho I don't believe its his actual stance.

But as far as "what God made" is a fairly abstract concept and its hard to nail down what it means...science on the other hand deals with the physical world so we can usually be pretty precise about what is correct or incorrect

Also you should be commended for keeping religion away from this while asking hard questions all in face of pretty incessant mudslinging that you are prejustice even tho I don't actually believe you are. There's nothing wrong with an open healthy discussion and Im enjoying it, but I dont feel strongly enuff on it to make a useful contribution.

Anyone who insists on their beliefs being imposed on others can hardly hide from any blowback on those same beliefs. That would be hypocrisy.

And you are commending him for keeping religion out of it, even though he brought religion into to it twice, once with the Catholic Adoption Agencies and again by claiming that he is against gay sex because it is a sin!

[omaghjoe]

Quite the opposite actually. I don't want to change my behaviour because sodomy is being rationalized.

No, you are demonising people for behaviour that is God-given and normal for them. It is the opposite to everything Jesus stood for.

You make me laugh. The behaviour is not God given or normal. Science (as already discussed) has not proven that gay people are born that way. In fact as mentioned they stay away from it with a barge pole....
More ducking and diving

But if God didn't make gay people, who did? Where did this all come from?

Didn't God made everything and everyone.

Hang on Iceman what was previously discussed??? What was previously disccused is that nothing has been proved either way, and also born or conceived? One of the biggest effects of environment on human outcome is the environment within the womb itself even with id twins. I'd advise both of you to stay away from this area completely as nothing (strangely) has been agreed by science.

I was staying away from it. Muppet called it God given. Do you agree that muppet cannot correctly make that statement? That Gay people are not definitively born or conceived gay? whether they are or not is moot anyway in my overall point - I'm not victimizing homosexuals - I'm disagreeing with the rationalization and normalization of sodomy.

Yeah he probably should be pulled on it but since especially as I presumed he was said it to goad you with your beliefs. (Only my perception Muppet)

Although his statement about gay people being god made is sort of my stance on the subject so I was probably biased even tho I don't believe its his actual stance.

But as far as "what God made" is a fairly abstract concept and its hard to nail down what it means...science on the other hand deals with the physical world so we can usually be pretty precise about what is correct or incorrect

Also you should be commended for keeping religion away from this while asking hard questions all in face of pretty incessant mudslinging that you are prejustice even tho I don't actually believe you are. There's nothing wrong with an open healthy discussion and Im enjoying it, but I dont feel strongly enuff on it to make a useful contribution.

Anyone who insists on their beliefs being imposed on others can hardly hide from any blowback on those same beliefs. That would be hypocrisy.

And you are commending him for keeping religion out of it, even though he brought religion into to it twice, once with the Catholic Adoption Agencies and again by claiming that he is against gay sex because it is a sin!

First point yes but he wasn't fully engaging them in them on this point. The Catholic adoption agencies was just used as an example TBF, but yes you are right about the sin. Although he's off the same faith as myself and in it practically everything you do is a sin...but its all forgivable .... but lets say he has done a fairly good job of keeping religion out it.

Weirdly I think that religious values and principles are one of the main reasons we are more accepting of homosexuality these days,even tho many people using the values may not even be religious.

On another point he didn't answer J70s point about what harm it can do if its done in private and all the rest?

[J70]

Exactly.  Why is anal sex wrong?

Because it is not sex in the manner that can lead to reproduction?

If that's the case, then any non-vaginal intercourse or sexual act must be "wrong", which makes blowjobs, handjobs, vibrators, teabagging etc. etc. wrong.

Or is it just the homosexual part of it?

Is anal sex with the missus ok?

[muppet]

Exactly.  Why is anal sex wrong?

Because it is not sex in the manner that can lead to reproduction?

If that's the case, then any non-vaginal intercourse or sexual act must be "wrong", which makes blowjobs, handjobs, vibrators, teabagging etc. etc. wrong.

Or is it just the homosexual part of it?

Is anal sex with the missus ok?

It is all ok anyway, because in Leviticus killing a goat gets you forgiveness. This is probably better than Genesis as you would probably have to kill your firstborn as a sacrifice.

[omaghjoe]

Exactly.  Why is anal sex wrong?

Because it is not sex in the manner that can lead to reproduction?

If that's the case, then any non-vaginal intercourse or sexual act must be "wrong", which makes blowjobs, handjobs, vibrators, teabagging etc. etc. wrong.

Or is it just the homosexual part of it?

Is anal sex with the missus ok?

I darent google it so you'll have to explain J70?

[J70]

Exactly.  Why is anal sex wrong?

Because it is not sex in the manner that can lead to reproduction?

If that's the case, then any non-vaginal intercourse or sexual act must be "wrong", which makes blowjobs, handjobs, vibrators, teabagging etc. etc. wrong.

Or is it just the homosexual part of it?

Is anal sex with the missus ok?

I darent google it so you'll have to explain J70?

You never wondered by the Tea Party movement in the US are known as " teabaggers" among the likes of Bill Maher and so on? :p

[omaghjoe]

Exactly.  Why is anal sex wrong?

Because it is not sex in the manner that can lead to reproduction?

If that's the case, then any non-vaginal intercourse or sexual act must be "wrong", which makes blowjobs, handjobs, vibrators, teabagging etc. etc. wrong.

Or is it just the homosexual part of it?

Is anal sex with the missus ok?

I darent google it so you'll have to explain J70?

You never wondered by the Tea Party movement in the US are known as " teabaggers" among the likes of Bill Maher and so on? :p

Ah don't follow the politics much here now...I know about the tea party but that's about it.. dunno who Bill Maher is at all.
What is it?

[J70]

Exactly.  Why is anal sex wrong?

Because it is not sex in the manner that can lead to reproduction?

If that's the case, then any non-vaginal intercourse or sexual act must be "wrong", which makes blowjobs, handjobs, vibrators, teabagging etc. etc. wrong.

Or is it just the homosexual part of it?

Is anal sex with the missus ok?

I darent google it so you'll have to explain J70?

You never wondered by the Tea Party movement in the US are known as " teabaggers" among the likes of Bill Maher and so on? :p

Ah don't follow the politics much here now...I know about the tea party but that's about it.. dunno who Bill Maher is at all.
What is it?

You can look it up if you're really interested!  Detailing or even outlining the mechanics of a sexual act is not really something I'm interested in doing.