The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[Maguire01]

You are the one making the specific claims (tax and effect on children) and you have not backed them up with any evidence whatsoever. When someone suggests a similar argument, by way of comparison, you throw all of the toys out of the pram and demand evidence, and/or accuse them of attacking you.

But that's the point. I contended that the reason that there was substantial legal support for marriage was because society was investing in the children that provides its future. Nobody has claimed that the discrimination inherent in that support is justified by some other reason, instead we get individual examples of this and that. If someone is using an individual example to illustrate their argument it is surely reasonable to ask for some details of that example and is not "throwing the toys out the pram".

So, using that line, if the gay couples adopt (or go down the surrogacy route) and raise children, they're making the same contribution to society as (many) heterosexual couples. That being the scenario, what's the logic in your argument?

As I said adoption is a red herring, given the small numbers adopted there are enough normal couples to adopt them.
I don't wish to encourage surrogacy, many civilised countries outlaw it entirely.

"Normal", indeed.
But the argument that there are enough normal couples to adopt isn't a logical argument. You could equally say, in Ireland, that there are enough white couples, enough Catholic couples, enough FG/FF/SF (delete as appropriate) voting couples, as a reason to exclude others.
There's nothing to suggest that a gay couple adopting a child wouldn't be making an equal contribution to society.

[armaghniac]

Adoption is a worthwhile contribution to society, but it is a different one to people having children together.

[Maguire01]

Adoption is a worthwhile contribution to society, but it is a different one to people having children together.

Different, yes... but a lesser contribution?

[Milltown Row2]

Adoption is a worthwhile contribution to society, but it is a different one to people having children together.

How? My sister has adopted two sisters and id like to know the difference (not the obvious one)

[Maguire01]

Adoption is a worthwhile contribution to society, but it is a different one to people having children together.

How? My sister has adopted two sisters and id like to know the difference (not the obvious one)

In substance, there's no difference. It's just scrambling for an argument to support a position.

[Kidder81]

I didn't know you get paid for adopting in some cases.

[Tony Baloney]

I didn't know you get paid for adopting in some cases.

You considering it?

[muppet]

I didn't know you get paid for adopting in some cases.

Will you take in some of the Rossie posters for us?

[Milltown Row2]

I didn't know you get paid for adopting in some cases.

Fostering. Don't think my sister got anything. What circumstances you talk about

[J70]

Apparently a priest laid into Eamon McGee at mass in Annagry at the weekend, due to public comments he made in support of gay marriage. A few people walked out.

What an arrogant p***k! Is the church so afraid of the debate that they have to try to silence any opposition opinion by singling out someone at mass like they used to in the bad old days?

http://www.joe.ie/news/donegal-churchgoers-walk-out-of-mass-after-priest-criticises-gaa-stars-stance-on-gay-marriage/487732

[muppet]

Apparently a priest laid into Eamon McGee at mass in Annagry at the weekend, due to public comments he made in support of gay marriage. A few people walked out.

What an arrogant p***k! Is the church so afraid of the debate that they have to try to silence any opposition opinion by singling out someone at mass like they used to in the bad old days?

http://www.joe.ie/news/donegal-churchgoers-walk-out-of-mass-after-priest-criticises-gaa-stars-stance-on-gay-marriage/487732

"A Catholic organisation was ribbing me on Twitter and asking why the GAA was taking a stand on this. It's a societal issue rather than a political issue but the majority of it has been supportive and I think it's a good opportunity too for people to talk about it. It just shows you there's that bit of open-mindedness there."

The same could be asked of the Catholic Organisation, but then that would be 'anti-Catholic'.

[StephenC]

Apparently a priest laid into Eamon McGee at mass in Annagry at the weekend, due to public comments he made in support of gay marriage. A few people walked out.

What an arrogant p***k! Is the church so afraid of the debate that they have to try to silence any opposition opinion by singling out someone at mass like they used to in the bad old days?

http://www.joe.ie/news/donegal-churchgoers-walk-out-of-mass-after-priest-criticises-gaa-stars-stance-on-gay-marriage/487732

The "source" was Donegal Daily. Treat this story accordingly.

[J70]

Apparently a priest laid into Eamon McGee at mass in Annagry at the weekend, due to public comments he made in support of gay marriage. A few people walked out.

What an arrogant p***k! Is the church so afraid of the debate that they have to try to silence any opposition opinion by singling out someone at mass like they used to in the bad old days?

http://www.joe.ie/news/donegal-churchgoers-walk-out-of-mass-after-priest-criticises-gaa-stars-stance-on-gay-marriage/487732

The "source" was Donegal Daily. Treat this story accordingly.

Indo are carrying it too, including a comment from the priest where he doesn't deny singling out McGee.

[seafoid]

Bressie has a very interesting site devoted to mental health and one of the features is a Gay/Lesbian/whatever blog

http://www.my1000hours.com/schools-out/

"From my own experience of growing up gay the biggest problem wasn't what was said or done, but rather the opposite. It was the silence that surrounded the issue that was the main culprit. No student or teacher was out in school. No player or coach at football. Aunts and uncles teased you with the perpetual "any girlfriends?" jest, never "boyfriend". Nobody talked about it. Nobody talked about it. In fact, the only mention of "gay" in school was the slur "that's so gay" which was a phrase thrown around the corridors like confetti. It felt odd that the curriculum would spend hundreds of hours hammering trigonometry into you but blatantly ignore things more fundamental and meaningful to your being like your feelings. The result was fear and shame about being open about who you were, confusion over why this was the case, exclusion from the delights of sexuality (at 16 this matters), and worry that it would never change.

Then college. Wow. Physically only a few kilometers away from secondary school, college, with its diverse population and culture of openness, was a new way of life. People kissed whomever, dated whomever, held hands with whomever. It was out in the open, it was talked about, and (shockingly) nobody cared. It was like the discovery of a new planet previously unknown. Why had I needlessly worried? Why did nobody tell me about this? Hit with utter exasperation about the contrast in environments I wanted to do something about it and be that person who could tell others. So with a few friends I formed the non-profit ShoutOut which would do just that. It's mission: break the silence on LGBT issues in secondary schools across Ireland. "

The thing about college is that it is a  select population - not everyone goes to college so the values are not always the same as in secondary school which is more like the general population. LGBT issues are probably a harder sell at secondary level.   

[Oraisteach]

Tony, time to load up the conestoga wagon and head off to Oklahomophobia.

The Oklahoma legislature is seeking to pass a Tonyesque law allowing "religious liberty", i.e. endorsing businesses' anti-gay discrimination. 

Well, showing this law for what it is, a Dem. lawmaker, Emily Virgin (how topically apropos), has proposed an amendment.

Virgin wants to ensure that gay couples know which businesses and government agencies will refuse them service so they can avoid the indignity of being turned away based on their identity. So Virgin's amendment requires that "any person" who despises gay people too much to serve them must simply "post notice of such refusal in a manner clearly visible to the public in all places of business, including websites." The amendment would promulgate the same notice requirement for businesses that refuse to service based on race or gender identity.

An American Poyntz-They-Shall-Not-Pass