The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[Tubberman]

If my facebook feed is any indication of national intent (and it's not), then it's Yes by a landslide.

If they were really concerned they would probably have put on free all-day bingo in every town hall and that would have delivered an easy yes vote.

Big party planned for result day tomorrow, but Molly went and ruined it all by not getting through to the final

[muppet]

Just voted, very quiet alright. Not many names crossed out on the list.

Obviously most people are at work, but if they don't come out and vote it could really boost the chances of a No vote.

[magpie seanie]

Heard on the News bulletin on the radio that loads of people are expected back to vote. I asked myself - how do they know this? Seemed like a fishy tale to me.

A good friend of mine who has a knack of being close to the mark is calling it 56-44 for a Yes. Another guy I know who was out canvassing for a Yes vote calling it 64-36, reckons the Yes side are very motivated and the vote will come out (sorry for the choice of words). I think 64% Yes would be a spectacular success given that 30-35% of people will vote no to everything!

[muppet]

Heard on the News bulletin on the radio that loads of people are expected back to vote. I asked myself - how do they know this? Seemed like a fishy tale to me.

A good friend of mine who has a knack of being close to the mark is calling it 56-44 for a Yes. Another guy I know who was out canvassing for a Yes vote calling it 64-36, reckons the Yes side are very motivated and the vote will come out (sorry for the choice of words). I think 64% Yes would be a spectacular success given that 30-35% of people will vote no to everything!

I always think there are people who will always vote No and equally others who will always vote Yes regardless of anything. It would be hard to quantify but it must be a factor when planning canvassing (something I have never done and would hate tbh).

[deiseach]

Two observations on canvassing and their possible applicability to this referendum based on one morning doing it for a friend:

• People are generally very nice on the doorsteps. Do not assume that because they are listening to you and nodding that they support you. Definitely something the Yes campaign will have had in mind.
• The goal of all election canvassing is putting a face to the name. Person says "well, I would like..." and you go "I'm sure AN Other would be delighted to address your concerns, he/she is just around the corner." Again, this would be a winner for the Yes campaign. I don't have horns on my head and I brush my teeth every morning. Do you really want to deny me the opportunity to get married?

[AZOffaly]

One of the offputting things about the Yes campaign was some of the people they had in public life proposing Yes. The likes of Panti Bliss are not representative of normal gay men. But because of the relatively high proportion of gay men in showbiz, and the flamboyant nature that they project, a lot of people find that annoying, and also think that is how 'the gays' look and behave. A bit more Donal Óg Cusack or Leo Varadker and less of the camp in your face might have helped win hearts and minds of some cautious voters. It will probably end up Yes, but I've said before I think the Yes side turned a potential slam dunk into a nervy situation.

[muppet]

One of the offputting things about the Yes campaign was some of the people they had in public life proposing Yes. The likes of Panti Bliss are not representative of normal gay men. But because of the relatively high proportion of gay men in showbiz, and the flamboyant nature that they project, a lot of people find that annoying, and also think that is how 'the gays' look and behave. A bit more Donal Óg Cusack or Leo Varadker and less of the camp in your face might have helped win hearts and minds of some cautious voters. It will probably end up Yes, but I've said before I think the Yes side turned a potential slam dunk into a nervy situation.

I'd have to agree with that.

[screenexile]

Turnout seems to be high in a few places anyway . . .

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/twitter-reports-high-turnout-as-voting-begins-678234.html

[AZOffaly]

I think turnout in Dublin will be high. It will be interesting to see down the country. I think a lot of people who might be undecided will just not vote because they can't bring themselves to vote Yes, and don't want to think of themselves as No either.

[magpie seanie]

Bookies odds swinging significantly in favour of a yes. Looks like it will be comfortable, approx. 60-40.

Agree with AZ that Yes side almost lost from a slam dunk position. They were helped by a terrible inept No campaign.

There are a lot of morons in this country that get lots of media attention.

[deiseach]

I'm sure I've posted this here before but it's as true now as it was when I first read it 14 years ago:

Gay-Pride Parade Sets Mainstream Acceptance Of Gays Back 50 Years

April 25, 2001
VOL 44 ISSUE 26

WEST HOLLYWOOD, CA–The mainstream acceptance of gays and lesbians, a hard-won civil-rights victory gained through decades of struggle against prejudice and discrimination, was set back at least 50 years Saturday in the wake of the annual Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade.

Participants in Saturday's Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade, which helped change straight people's tolerant attitudes toward gays.

"I'd always thought gays were regular people, just like you and me, and that the stereotype of homosexuals as hedonistic, sex-crazed deviants was just a destructive myth," said mother of four Hannah Jarrett, 41, mortified at the sight of 17 tanned and oiled boys cavorting in jock straps to a throbbing techno beat on a float shaped like an enormous phallus. "Boy, oh, boy, was I wrong."

The parade, organized by the Los Angeles Gay And Lesbian And Bisexual And Transvestite And Transgender Alliance (LAGALABATATA), was intended to "promote acceptance, tolerance, and equality for the city's gay community." Just the opposite, however, was accomplished, as the event confirmed the worst fears of thousands of non-gay spectators, cementing in their minds a debauched and distorted image of gay life straight out of the most virulent right-wing hate literature.

Among the parade sights and sounds that did inestimable harm to the gay-rights cause: a group of obese women in leather biker outfits passing out clitoris-shaped lollipops to horrified onlookers; a man in military uniform leading a submissive masochist, clad in diapers and a baby bonnet, around on a dog leash; several Hispanic dancers in rainbow wigs and miniskirts performing "humping" motions on a mannequin dressed as the Pope; and a dozen gyrating drag queens in see-through dresses holding penis-shaped beer bottles that appeared to spurt ejaculation-like foam when shaken and poured onto passersby.

Timothy Orosco, 51, a local Walgreens manager whose store is on the parade route, changed his attitude toward gays as a result of the event.

"They kept chanting things like, 'We're here, we're queer, get used to it!' and 'Hey, hey, we're gay, we're not going to go away!'" Orosco said. "All I can say is, I was used to it, but now, although I'd never felt this way before, I wish they would go away."

Allison Weber, 43, an El Segundo marketing consultant, also had her perceptions and assumptions about gays challenged by the parade.

"My understanding was that gay people are just like everybody else–decent, hard-working people who care about their communities and have loving, committed relationships," Weber said. "But, after this terrifying spectacle, I don't want them teaching my kids or living in my neighborhood."

The parade's influence extended beyond L.A.'s borders, altering the attitudes of straight people across America. Footage of the event was featured on telecasts of The 700 Club as "proof of the sin-steeped world of homosexuality." A photo spread in Monday's USA Today chronicled many of the event's vulgar displays–understood by gays to be tongue-in-cheek "high camp"–which horrified previously tolerant people from coast to coast.

Dr. Henry Thorne, a New York University history professor who has written several books about the gay-rights movement, explained the misunderstanding.

"After centuries of oppression as an 'invisible' segment of society, gays, emboldened by the 1969 Stonewall uprising, took to the streets in the early '70s with an 'in-your-face' attitude. Confronting the worst prejudices of a world that didn't accept them, they fought back against these prejudices with exaggeration and parody, reclaiming their enemies' worst stereotypes about them and turning them into symbols of gay pride," Thorne said. "Thirty years later, gays have won far greater acceptance in the world at large, but they keep doing this stuff anyway."

"Mostly, I think, because it's really fun," Thorne added.

The Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade, Thorne noted, is part of a decades-old gay-rights tradition. But, for mainstream heterosexuals unfamiliar with irony and the reclamation of stereotypes for the purpose of exploding them, the parade resembled an invasion of grotesque outer-space mutants, bent on the destruction of the human race.

"I have a cousin who's a gay, and he seemed like a decent enough guy to me," said Iowa City, IA, resident Russ Linder, in Los Angeles for a weekend sales seminar. "Now, thanks to this parade, I realize what a freak he's been all along. Gays are all sick, immoral perverts."

Parade organizers vowed to make changes in the wake of the negative reaction among heterosexuals.

"I knew it. I said we needed 100 dancers on the 'Show Us Your Ass' float, but everybody insisted that 50 would be enough," said Lady Labia, spokesperson for LAGALABATATA. "Next year, we're really going to give those breeders something to look at."

[AZOffaly]

I was just about to say "surely that's from the onion" But sometimes a lot of truth is said in jest.

[eddie d]

I'm sure I've posted this here before but it's as true now as it was when I first read it 14 years ago:

Gay-Pride Parade Sets Mainstream Acceptance Of Gays Back 50 Years

April 25, 2001
VOL 44 ISSUE 26

WEST HOLLYWOOD, CA–The mainstream acceptance of gays and lesbians, a hard-won civil-rights victory gained through decades of struggle against prejudice and discrimination, was set back at least 50 years Saturday in the wake of the annual Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade.

Participants in Saturday's Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade, which helped change straight people's tolerant attitudes toward gays.

"I'd always thought gays were regular people, just like you and me, and that the stereotype of homosexuals as hedonistic, sex-crazed deviants was just a destructive myth," said mother of four Hannah Jarrett, 41, mortified at the sight of 17 tanned and oiled boys cavorting in jock straps to a throbbing techno beat on a float shaped like an enormous phallus. "Boy, oh, boy, was I wrong."

The parade, organized by the Los Angeles Gay And Lesbian And Bisexual And Transvestite And Transgender Alliance (LAGALABATATA), was intended to "promote acceptance, tolerance, and equality for the city's gay community." Just the opposite, however, was accomplished, as the event confirmed the worst fears of thousands of non-gay spectators, cementing in their minds a debauched and distorted image of gay life straight out of the most virulent right-wing hate literature.

Among the parade sights and sounds that did inestimable harm to the gay-rights cause: a group of obese women in leather biker outfits passing out clitoris-shaped lollipops to horrified onlookers; a man in military uniform leading a submissive masochist, clad in diapers and a baby bonnet, around on a dog leash; several Hispanic dancers in rainbow wigs and miniskirts performing "humping" motions on a mannequin dressed as the Pope; and a dozen gyrating drag queens in see-through dresses holding penis-shaped beer bottles that appeared to spurt ejaculation-like foam when shaken and poured onto passersby.

Timothy Orosco, 51, a local Walgreens manager whose store is on the parade route, changed his attitude toward gays as a result of the event.

"They kept chanting things like, 'We're here, we're queer, get used to it!' and 'Hey, hey, we're gay, we're not going to go away!'" Orosco said. "All I can say is, I was used to it, but now, although I'd never felt this way before, I wish they would go away."

Allison Weber, 43, an El Segundo marketing consultant, also had her perceptions and assumptions about gays challenged by the parade.

"My understanding was that gay people are just like everybody else–decent, hard-working people who care about their communities and have loving, committed relationships," Weber said. "But, after this terrifying spectacle, I don't want them teaching my kids or living in my neighborhood."

The parade's influence extended beyond L.A.'s borders, altering the attitudes of straight people across America. Footage of the event was featured on telecasts of The 700 Club as "proof of the sin-steeped world of homosexuality." A photo spread in Monday's USA Today chronicled many of the event's vulgar displays–understood by gays to be tongue-in-cheek "high camp"–which horrified previously tolerant people from coast to coast.

Dr. Henry Thorne, a New York University history professor who has written several books about the gay-rights movement, explained the misunderstanding.

"After centuries of oppression as an 'invisible' segment of society, gays, emboldened by the 1969 Stonewall uprising, took to the streets in the early '70s with an 'in-your-face' attitude. Confronting the worst prejudices of a world that didn't accept them, they fought back against these prejudices with exaggeration and parody, reclaiming their enemies' worst stereotypes about them and turning them into symbols of gay pride," Thorne said. "Thirty years later, gays have won far greater acceptance in the world at large, but they keep doing this stuff anyway."

"Mostly, I think, because it's really fun," Thorne added.

The Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade, Thorne noted, is part of a decades-old gay-rights tradition. But, for mainstream heterosexuals unfamiliar with irony and the reclamation of stereotypes for the purpose of exploding them, the parade resembled an invasion of grotesque outer-space mutants, bent on the destruction of the human race.

"I have a cousin who's a gay, and he seemed like a decent enough guy to me," said Iowa City, IA, resident Russ Linder, in Los Angeles for a weekend sales seminar. "Now, thanks to this parade, I realize what a freak he's been all along. Gays are all sick, immoral perverts."

Parade organizers vowed to make changes in the wake of the negative reaction among heterosexuals.

"I knew it. I said we needed 100 dancers on the 'Show Us Your Ass' float, but everybody insisted that 50 would be enough," said Lady Labia, spokesperson for LAGALABATATA. "Next year, we're really going to give those breeders something to look at."

What is? Sorry I'm not getting your point/post

[Maguire01]

I was just about to say "surely that's from the onion" But sometimes a lot of truth is said in jest.

It is.
http://www.theonion.com/article/gay-pride-parade-sets-mainstream-acceptance-of-gay-351

(Just in case anyone was in doubt.)

[topcuppla]

Most of this board probably on looking for a man.

A tongue in cheek comment on a totally different thread - that's all you have got!