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Which came first withdrawal of players which led to mediocrity or acceptance of mediocrity which led to withdrawal of players, it is no coincidence that Armagh , Derry and Cavan all adopted defensive systems inspired by Jim McGuinness's Donegal , this then led to talented forwards in particular becoming redundant and frustrated and eventually coming to the realisation that an absolute dummy could perform the role they were asked to perform and eventually left panel when it became apparent the system was more important than talent .

If ever there was an argument for a tiered championship this match was it. We got a great game against 2 evenly matched teams , however they are so far off the top table it is shocking . Two teams would be intermediate in a county championship scenario.No disrespect to Roscommon but they will do well not to be beat by 10 points in each super 8 game. McStay and Roscommon though has a plan and see the 3 games as a progression to Div 1 next year and then come back stronger to championship next year. Armagh however despite the best endeavours of a number of players are back to square one next year with no idea of who will play who won't , will management be retained or let go after another poor day at the office yesterday !!!!!!

Yet again on this forum ,attack anyone who doesn't toe the party line ! We have enough experts on here analysing or making excuses for the inability of Armagh to get within an asses roar of a top team. The stats speak for themselves and have been well documented ,

I'm not interested in bashing players or management but am sick of the endless posts ignoring the facts and pretending we are making progress , all I ask is for debate on how to improve into consistently maximising the undoubted talent there is in the county . Putting structures in place to avoid the peak and trough cycle we have been on since the formation of the gaa.

Apologies again ,I must be in the wrong thread this is obviously the Armagh cheerleaders association and any debate about and analysis of Armagh's performances under the current regime are not welcome, we all agree to let Rufus spoof on like a poor mans Joe Brolly and not challenge any of his assertions .

Rufus your love affair with your own opinion is unrivalled , add in your intolerance of others opinions and your ability to squirm out of facing facts makes you an ideal candidate to lead UK brexit campaign !!

Would agree on the O'Neill's , but lot of talent in the county that is being wasted , no point waking up in another 5 years and thinking where to now !

[If we were to win on Saturday, and thus make the last eight for the second year in a row, I don't think there would be many who could argue that we were maximizing our potential - even new members of this board with their own agendas]


Sorry I didn't realise this discussion forum was not open to new members with thoughts that span beyond the next or previous game .


If you can tell me Armagh have progressed in any shape or form since McGeeney came on board with his 5 year plan you are deluded, to use the example of a 69 minute non performance followed by Complete Clare collapse is more evidence of delusion.


I have no agenda or axe to grind with anyone , but am fed up with apologists for mediocrity. I think the majority of Armagh people who attend club matches week in week out know Armagh as a county are nowhere near fulfilling their potential, yet some people on this board cannot see beyond results and ignore performances no matter how shocking , all I would like to see is all Armagh coming together to ensure structures are put in place to allow us compete at a high level cosistently by getting our best talent on the field at all age groups. I don't think our current management can achieve that as to lose 2 or 3 is unfortunate , to lose 10 or 12 and have another 10 or 12 that won't commit suggests serious mismanagement.

The point is Armagh supporters , (and I mean all Armagh supporters , not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer who ridicule others who cannot stomach watching the current shambles ) deserve to know why there is such a huge drop off rate , and a huge number of players in the county who won't commit , same thing in Westmeath ,Down and Louth ,when players realised county boards had appointed managers not fit for purpose , all 3 gone 2 after only 1 year , in Armagh they have to listen to same old "it's not the managers fault , the players won't commit, give it more time , there is a good group of u'20 coming through"

I do commend the current squad for their commitment in sticking at it knowing Armagh should be at a higher level but would question whether their commitment is to Geezer or Armagh ? There seems to be an element in the group that hero worships the manager and are trotted out for interviews in IN with Crossan any time the pressure revs up.

All Armagh supporters should see the current trend towards super 8 , champions league format as an opportunity to get our house in order and become competitive on a consistent basis going forward, total root and branch review needed with those with vested interests being replaced to cease the cyclical nature of wasting talent for 10/15 years and then produce a team .

"The missing players is for another day. The forwards could badly do with Clarke and Campbell. Oisin O'Neill may not have been a starter anyway. I would have been more interested in seeing Rian available from the bench. Morgan is a miss. There are plenty of others and whilst McKenna and O'Hanlon are more recent departures I believe this team could really do with Caolin Rafferty and Declan McKenna. The latter being the natural successor to Donaghy. We will have lost out if those boats have sailed"



And why wait for another day to discuss the missing players ?? Will we wait for the unveiling of the new 5 year plan ? If you think Armagh have their best panel available never mind their best players on the field is deluded , if you think the O'Neills wouldn't be automatic staters on the current squad you don't see much football.