Armagh v Cavan (Sun - 02-06-19) Clones

Started by illdecide, May 27, 2019, 09:20:17 AM

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Itchy

Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.

The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.

Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really  improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.

tonto1888

Quote from: Itchy on June 02, 2019, 10:29:54 PM
Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.

The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.

Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really  improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.

Oh dear. Talk about seeing what you want. Cavan players were given carte Blanche to take as many steps as they wanted. Any time they were touched they got a free. Yet man McVeety, a good player, is an ejit. Starts pushing players and when they push back he turns to the umpire and cries. Actually I agree that the ref was pathetic. Also agree that the black card for Faulkner was wrong decision and Grimley was lucky to stay on the park. Shields got elbowed in the head. Clear red card. As was Donaghys

Captain Obvious

Quote from: Hound on June 02, 2019, 10:23:47 PM
Overall, the standard wasn't great. The Armagh team of the early 00s would have beaten either team today quite easily.

I'd agree there.

Your own Dublin team are great no questioning that however the overall the standard of competition they have isn't great. Just look at the current challengers. Tyrone not a patch on their All Ireland winning teams,Kerry in transition and still learning how to defend and Mayo who haven't reached a provincial final for the last 4 years and knocked out of the championship last year by Kildare.




sidelineball

Neutral observer here.
Thought it was a good game but Cavan can certainly feel hard done by officiate.
Armagh seemed to get easier frees and the majority if not most of the 50/50 calls. The black cards were very harsh especially when Armagh players were let off for the same thing and I don't think Cavan red was warranted. Shields play acting got the man sent off.
Jamie Clarke had a poor game and didn't seem himself but J Og Burns is a tremendous player.

Westside

McVeety got purposely hit in the face clearly 3 times during the game which resulted in 1 yellow card for Morgan. I don't get how they were any less of a red card than Brady's swing back? Faulkner's black was an outrageous decision. Confusion about the red for Donaghy, was it a second yellow? He had the yellow in his hand. Had to be a straight red surely. We were hard done by with the ref for sure.

Cavan were lucky that Armagh were just too inept to go on and win the game. Our lads dug in hard but once again it needed Mackey to come on and rescue the situation. Gearoid kicking that free wide in extra time was unforgivable. He spent some of last week in hospital and wasn't fully recovered today which was evident, he looked jaded but to be fair, he managed to win that kickout at the end and make a chance for Mackey to win it.

Hard to know what some of the Cavan players roles are. What does Oisin Kiernan do apart from move the ball over and back? Martin Reilly was extremely poor but well marshalled I suppose.
I think the replay will be equally as close. Cavan don't have the shooters to hammer home possession dominance. Two determined division 2 sides. Neither Tyrone nor Donegal will be quaking in their boots.

Westside

Quote from: tonto1888 on June 02, 2019, 10:34:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 02, 2019, 10:29:54 PM
Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.

The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.

Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really  improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.

Oh dear. Talk about seeing what you want. Cavan players were given carte Blanche to take as many steps as they wanted. Any time they were touched they got a free. Yet man McVeety, a good player, is an ejit. Starts pushing players and when they push back he turns to the umpire and cries. Actually I agree that the ref was pathetic. Also agree that the black card for Faulkner was wrong decision and Grimley was lucky to stay on the park. Shields got elbowed in the head. Clear red card. As was Donaghys

Jesus were you watching the game? Did you see the abuse Morgan gave McVeety for example. Even Whelan referred to it on the Sunday game. Oisin Pierson was being mounted in the second half of extra time in the FF line and the ref didn't want to know about it.

BennyCake

Quote from: sidelineball on June 02, 2019, 10:58:26 PM
Neutral observer here.
Thought it was a good game but Cavan can certainly feel hard done by officiate.
Armagh seemed to get easier frees and the majority if not most of the 50/50 calls. The black cards were very harsh especially when Armagh players were let off for the same thing and I don't think Cavan red was warranted. Shields play acting got the man sent off.
Jamie Clarke had a poor game and didn't seem himself but J Og Burns is a tremendous player.

I wouldn't say Shields playacted. He did get a dig in the face.

Cavan black, wrong. Red, correct.

Rowland could have easily gone too for high strike.

Throw ball

#112
It is amazing how people see things so differently! Why would anyone want to be a referee. Considering frees like the one the Cavan full forward won against Burns when he grabbed Burns around the neck I find it hard to see how anyone could say Armagh got the 50:50 calls.

McVeety is a very good player but he should cut out the crap. He was mouthing and digging at Morgan to try and get a reaction and Morgan stupidly reacted. I watched as McVeety pushed Morgan twice in the chest. Morgan reacted and pushed him in the face for which he could have seen red. McVeety went crying to the umpire. When Shields came on the first thing McVeety did was try and get a reaction from him. Shields is a bit more streetwise.

Think Cavan first black card was wrong. The red was correct.  I assume Grimley got yellow because he went to kick the ball as McKernan dived on it. Not deliberate but it could have been red. Donaghy - unusually for him - let himself down.

As an aside. Can the referees find some way of getting players to take frees from right place. All now seem to get a 5 or 6 step advantage on every scoreable free.

PS for all those commenting on Armagh hitting late etc. It was interesting to hear those on the Sunday game complementing Armagh on their defensive discipline.

illdecide

#113
Both teams will come away thinking they could have won it and think they were hard done by. I thought McVeety was probably Cavan's best player and thought he did receive a bit of extra treatment (that's what teams do to the opposition's best players). There were too many mistakes to start singling them all out, don't want to start on tactics as i don't think we have any (bar getting everyone behind the ball) but the thing that pissed me off the most was trying to keep ball near the end and losing it. We deserved all we got for that.

The thing that normally happens in extra time is one team's fitness or a few scores take over and usually dominate the other team but what we witnessed today was two teams out on their feet during extra time and didn't have anything extra to give...Surprising both teams were like this...

Both sets of fans think the Ref gave them nothing...lol. Thought he was just ok TBH, if we all took off our blinkers off we'd see it differently (I include myself in that), what is one teams free is the other team getting robbed...lol.
I can swim a little but i can't fly an inch

Throw ball

Quote from: illdecide on June 02, 2019, 11:42:16 PM
Both teams will come away thinking they could have won it and think they were hard done by. I thought McVeety was probably Cavan's best player and thought he did receive a bit of extra treatment (that's what teams do to the opposition's best players). There were too many mistakes to start singling them all out, don't want to start on tactics as i don't think we have any (bar getting everyone behind the ball) but the thing that pissed me off the most was trying to keep ball near the end and losing it. We deserved all we got for that.

The thing that normally happens in extra time is one team's fitness or a few scores takes over and usually dominate the other team but what we witnessed today was two teams out on their feet during extra time and didn't have anything extra to give...Surprising both teams were like this...

Both sets of fans think the Ref gave them nothing...lol. Thought he was just ok TBH, if we all took off our blinkers off we'd see it differently (I include myself in that), what is one teams free is the other team getting robbed...lol.

The problem in my opinion is not the referees but that the rules are to open to interpretation. If for example we take Grimley card. Was the referee correct as Grimley didn't do anything deliberately to hurt McKernan. Was he wrong because Grimley could not be expected to assume McKernan would dive on the ball as it wasn't a rugby match. Or was he wrong in that it should have been a red? The rules are not clear. Even the tackling. Sometimes a players holds the ball and gets done for overcarrying and other times he gets a free for an innocuous challenge. Until the rules are more clearly defined there won't be agreement and referees will get more abuse.

SouthDublinBro

Sad to see that nothing much has changed in the orchard county. Cavan much the better team and didn't resort to the blatant thuggery that Armagh made famous.

Westside

The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

Throw ball

Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

Itchy

I hope they get a decent strong ref like Gough for the next game that will be wise to mcgeeneys dirt and nip it in the bud early and a football game break out and let the best football team win.

Westside

Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.

But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....

As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.

The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.

If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?

As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.

He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.