Fermanagh v Armagh Brewster Pk Sat 19th May 7:00pm

Started by illdecide, May 10, 2018, 09:08:40 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

regal

Congratulations to fermanagh. Well deserved.

On Armagh. Oh my god. I have long been a mcgeeney fan but enough is enough. Utter confusion runs through this set up. Everything is over thought, over coached, over analysed and over prepared. The players are effectively being sent out with hand cuffs on. Mcgeeney has surrounded himself with crap personnel (I wouldn't include mccorry in this as I have some respect for him). His (relative) success with Kildare came when he had a decent back room team around him.

I felt sorry for Hughes, donaghy, Murnin tonight. Many of the others playing tonight are simply not good enough. Even if the management and coaching were ok,
Armagh is not a strong enough county to be able to compete without so many good footballers. We are missing players such as:

- heffron, Morgan, ohanlon
- o.oneill
- r.oneill, Campbell, Clarke, c.rafferty

I'm presuming crossmaglen will have someone at the head of the management set up next year. The question is who. I presume Tony mcentee will be favourite as his journey with mayo looks like coming to an end this year

regal

Quote from: stephenite on May 20, 2018, 12:32:10 AM
Quote from: Itchy on May 19, 2018, 11:32:58 PM
I said it for a long time, mcgeeney is a a spoofer. Surely his more ardent supporters can see this now.

100%, that man has long been an embarrassment to himself

And mayo would know all about how to embarrass themselves. David Brady. Aidan O'Shea. John omahony. Donal Vaughan, Caolan O'Connor.

TomFun

#152
regal are you a a bit of a Spoofer youself?

armaghniac

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 19, 2018, 10:59:03 PM
Football is simple and it is complicated by people who believe in systems over skills. I have always. Even if the opinion that the basics are the key and it you can do them better than the man beside you in the opposite jersey then this increases the changes of winning. The fundamentals are the basic building blocks and I get the feeling that armagh don't know what they are. It won't change and that's the reality. Too many people in key positions are happy with the status hip remaining

I am not expert in football, there are several hundred in Cross' alone who know more than me. But things like the sloppy tackling by Armagh were obvious 4 years ago and the same failings are obvious today. We failed to point several scorable frees and 45s. I'm not saying the talent is there to win Sam, but we have 3 times the pick of Fermanagh and that should be obvious on the field of play.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Erne Man

A surreal evening in Enniskillen where we won pulling up, and the result wasn't really in doubt when we registered the 1st score of the second half. I can only go back to wins against Antrim in the early 90's where we have been as comfortable. That said, the performance was quite patchy with decent defensive performances from Cullen, McMahon and Mulrone as well as total dominance in the middle from Jones and Donnelly. The fact that Armagh conceded midfield from the off gave our two lads the freedom to drive forward with Jones particularly impressive in the first half with 2 great scores.
However from midfield forward we were poor. Half forward line works hard, but don't do enough to bring our inside scoring threat into the game, and the lack of movement from Seamus/Sean/Conall was worrying. I think we need a bit of pace to play slightly deeper, and wouldn't be surprised to see Tomas start in place of Sean the next day.
Tyrone/Monaghan on reviewing tonight's game would see nothing to concern them, so a lot of work for Rory and co in the next 2 weeks. We'll enjoy tonight though as victories over Armagh are a rare commodity.
The context of the game can't ignore that Armagh were a shambles - tactically devoid, in my view surprisingly poorly conditioned with a lot of limited footballers on show. Their poor  shot selection and general panic that was evident all through the 2nd half made this more comfortable for Fermanagh than it should have been.
Final word on the ref. If this is how championship 2018 is being officiated I'm looking forward to the 10 v 10 games we will see in the super 8's. Neilan blew for all physical contact where legal or not, and some of the frees awarded to both sides were mind boggling. Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.

FermGael

Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2018, 09:56:12 AM
I'd like to personally wish Fermanagh all the best today.
Honeslty I believe this was the crucial element in tonight's win
Wanted.  Forwards to take frees.
Not fussy.  Any sort of ability will be considered

Throw ball

Quote from: Erne Man on May 20, 2018, 02:09:24 AM
A surreal evening in Enniskillen where we won pulling up, and the result wasn't really in doubt when we registered the 1st score of the second half. I can only go back to wins against Antrim in the early 90's where we have been as comfortable. That said, the performance was quite patchy with decent defensive performances from Cullen, McMahon and Mulrone as well as total dominance in the middle from Jones and Donnelly. The fact that Armagh conceded midfield from the off gave our two lads the freedom to drive forward with Jones particularly impressive in the first half with 2 great scores.
However from midfield forward we were poor. Half forward line works hard, but don't do enough to bring our inside scoring threat into the game, and the lack of movement from Seamus/Sean/Conall was worrying. I think we need a bit of pace to play slightly deeper, and wouldn't be surprised to see Tomas start in place of Sean the next day.
Tyrone/Monaghan on reviewing tonight's game would see nothing to concern them, so a lot of work for Rory and co in the next 2 weeks. We'll enjoy tonight though as victories over Armagh are a rare commodity.
The context of the game can't ignore that Armagh were a shambles - tactically devoid, in my view surprisingly poorly conditioned with a lot of limited footballers on show. Their poor  shot selection and general panic that was evident all through the 2nd half made this more comfortable for Fermanagh than it should have been.
Final word on the ref. If this is how championship 2018 is being officiated I'm looking forward to the 10 v 10 games we will see in the super 8's. Neilan blew for all physical contact where legal or not, and some of the frees awarded to both sides were mind boggling. Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.

Watched sending off on iPlayer. At first glance it looked harsh but replays would suggest it was the correct decision. Niall laid the ball of and Quigley was running towards him. I assume Niall thought he was going to check his run and he put his arm up to stop him and caught him with his forearm in the face.

Owen Brannigan

Random point, early on the morning after.

Futility of the competition is now even more obvious for Armagh supporters. All we hear is that a good run in the qualifiers is the best we can hope for. What's the point?

Armagh had a good run when they played teams of similar or worse ability in Division 3 and played on a regular basis. Qualifiers might suit them if they were to meet similar teams but that may not happen this year.

Armagh under current management cannot handle a longish period of preparation before a championship game as shown in the last four years.

The qualifiers will not be as handy for Armagh this year as has happened in the past years.  The a/b arrangement is gone. An open draw in round one could see an end to the season if they pull a much better team from Division 1 or 2 and that might not be a bad thing.

If Armagh by some stroke of luck made it to the Super 8s they were be hammered over three games.

At least yesterday's defeat prevented further embarrassment against Tyrone or Monaghan.

The pig headed or head in the sand or whatever you want to call it approach by not just the county board but the club delegates who have approved their decisions to continue with McGeeney for the last four years will probably continue for another year.

Time for a B championship to give hope for half the teams in the country. 

The best that Armagh can consider for the foreseeable future is to try and win 3/4 games in a row to win a championship. If they fail to do so then qualifiers is a waste of resources for the county board and for the supporters travelling around the country to be tortured.

8000+ supporters at yesterday's game was an indictment of how far football has fallen as something worth going to see live.  Systems have destroyed the game for the supporters' enjoyment.

naka

Shambles of a performance from Armagh and genuinely I have no appetite to follow them in the back door .
On seeing the team sheet on Friday I couldn't see where the scores were coming from and was proved right, we were ponderous and the shot selection was mind boggling.
Fermanagh had a game plan and stuck to it winning easily in the end.for me 4 years in  under mc geeney and the defeats in the championship are getting harsher.
He has nowhere to go.

Interesting point though I think the game is falling away as a spectacle, was surprised how empty the groubd was but at £24 a ticket to watch what is an amateur game I think the gaa are losing the run of themselves.

Rufus T Firefly

A few good points Owen, some of which I would have sympathy with, although others that I would take issue with.

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 07:52:46 AM
Futility of the competition is now even more obvious for Armagh supporters. All we hear is that a good run in the qualifiers is the best we can hope for. What's the point?

Time for a B championship to give hope for half the teams in the country. 

The best that Armagh can consider for the foreseeable future is to try and win 3/4 games in a row to win a championship. If they fail to do so then qualifiers is a waste of resources for the county board and for the supporters travelling around the country to be tortured.

I've lumped these together, because I feel they are related.

I can't help but feel these points are made from a dark place, with one of our worst performances ever still fresh in your mind. For the majority of the years of our existence, you could argue 'what's the point', as we only have 14 provincial championships out of the 120+ that were available. For many years, before the back door, we went into the Ulster Championship as no hopers and had a quick exit and then back to Club football. I still think that that is the reality of where we are today with regards Ulster. There are three teams who are playing at a level away beyond ours, and we would have to beat two of them to win an Ulster. That is not going to happen.

Oisin McConville talked about this last night on the TV - he said that after the Fermanagh defeat, our quest for silverware was effectively over, as we will not come within a hound's goul of an All Ireland. The reality though for me was that we had no real chance of winning an Ulster either. The reality is though that we now have qualifiers, and a run in those, without actually collecting a Cup, will be seen by us - as it is with many counties - to be success. With the commitment though being made by counties with regard to money, resources, time, I do think there is a very persuasive argument for at least two tiers in the Championship, as the sense I get is that the gap between the elite and the rest is growing, with the gap becoming unbridgeable. That will impact on crowds, revenue etc.

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 07:52:46 AM
Armagh had a good run when they played teams of similar or worse ability in Division 3 and played on a regular basis. Qualifiers might suit them if they were to meet similar teams but that may not happen this year.

The qualifiers will not be as handy for Armagh this year as has happened in the past years.  The a/b arrangement is gone. An open draw in round one could see an end to the season if they pull a much better team from Division 1 or 2 and that might not be a bad thing.

I don't think there is much of a difference here between last year and this year. There will be some big fish in the draw - Mayo and the losers of Monaghan and Tyrone - but there will be many others who could offer hope for progress.

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 07:52:46 AM
At least yesterday's defeat prevented further embarrassment against Tyrone or Monaghan. If Armagh by some stroke of luck made it to the Super 8s they were be hammered over three games.

Agreed and agreed. Progress to the Super 8s would still represent a very good season though.


Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 07:52:46 AM
Armagh under current management cannot handle a longish period of preparation before a championship game as shown in the last four years.

The pig headed or head in the sand or whatever you want to call it approach by not just the county board but the club delegates who have approved their decisions to continue with McGeeney for the last four years will probably continue for another year.

Management will come under scrutiny here - undoubtedly. However there are thin lines between what is considered success and failure. That was no more evident than in 2017. We were robbed by Tipp of promotion with virtually the last kick of the last game of the 2017 league. If we had avoided that goal, got promoted, then that, together with our qualifier run to the All Ireland quarter-finals, would have represented nearly the best (realistically) possible scenario any Armagh fan could have hoped for.

However there is a flip side to that coin. Failing to get promoted, we really should have been dumped out of the qualifiers by Westmeath in Mullingar last year, but they spurned a number of gilt edged chances when they had us on the ropes. We broke up the pitch and got the winning goal. From there we reached an All Ireland quarter-final. Failure to get promoted, and being dumped out by Westmeath would have represented a terrible season and I'm not sure McGeeney would have survived. Thin lines...

By County Board above, I assume you mean County Executive, as the club delegates are the County Board. I feel McGeeney earned himself another year after 2017, and given promotion to Division 2, there will be an argument for keeping him on again for 2019. It will be interesting to see how we go over the next number of weeks, as that could be a factor.

I realize last night was a shocker, and the players we had should be doing better, particularly in light of the preparation for this game, but bear in mind that we are no world beaters, even if we could put out our strongest side, and last night - for a variety of reasons - was well below what would be considered our best 15. That could also be a factor to be considered if the future of management is discussed.

FermGael

£24 per adult and £5 for under 16s is too dear.
It was a very poor crowd considering the weather.
Same last week in Ballybofey.

Wanted.  Forwards to take frees.
Not fussy.  Any sort of ability will be considered

Targetman

Yep far too expensive, there'll be even less in Newry on Saturday evening, I'd expect 7k approx!

keeperlit

[quote author=Erne Man link=topic=28631.msg1808827#msg1808827 date=15 Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.
[/quote]

Should not have been in the field to get sent off as management  should have had grimly subbed after about 20 mins into first half. Was having a stinker.

Throw ball

Quote from: keeperlit on May 20, 2018, 09:39:27 AM
[quote author=Erne Man link=topic=28631.msg1808827#msg1808827 date=15 Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.

Should not have been in the field to get sent off as management  should have had grimly subbed after about 20 mins into first half. Was having a stinker.
[/quote]

You aren't allowed to make 15 substitutions and there were quite a few worse than him. If Armagh are to progress they need to find more players like him. One rash moment and people would lynch a fella. If Dublin had taken that route in 2003 when Cluxton kicked McDonnell they may not have as many All Ireland's.

tonto1888

Quote from: Throw ball on May 20, 2018, 09:48:40 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on May 20, 2018, 09:39:27 AM
[quote author=Erne Man link=topic=28631.msg1808827#msg1808827 date=15 Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.

Should not have been in the field to get sent off as management  should have had grimly subbed after about 20 mins into first half. Was having a stinker.

You aren't allowed to make 15 substitutions and there were quite a few worse than him. If Armagh are to progress they need to find more players like him. One rash moment and people would lynch a fella. If Dublin had taken that route in 2003 when Cluxton kicked McDonnell they may not have as many All Ireland's.
[/quote]

Agree with this. Grimley was far from the worst up until his red.