Leaving Neverland - a documentary on sexual abuse

[Main Street]

Michael Jackson wax figure was removed from Copenhagen's Roedovre Centrum mall  on feb 11.

....replaced by Brad Pitt 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2019/02/11/michael-jackson-wax-figure-removed-danish-mall/2839523002/

[Dinny Breen]

There is a difference between banning music and simply not wanting to play it. I'm sure there are plenty of DJs who (like me) couldn't stomach playing "Man in the Mirror" after hearing those revelations. I'm sure there are some who could. That is not a ban.

And it is not actually radio play where we will see this - the Spotify charts will show far more accurately whether people are streaming him still or not. Either way, it is perfectly democratic and a pure expression of both the principle of free speech and the effectiveness of markets (for our right wing friends) if people make that choice.

Gary Glitter has nearly a 130,000 monthly listens on Spotify. I was surprised they still carried him.

[quit yo jibbajabba]

Watched Part 1 and wasnt convinced, but after Part 2 was more convinced when ye heard about the boys tellin their families and the fall out etc;

so leavin aside the obvious fact that he was a weirdo, i side with the boys with the frustratin thing being youll never know for sure;

With Saville it was hundreds who came out, here its 2 plus one or two more from before, i think if the other boys eg Macauley who have said he never touched came out then ye would have more certainty.

But yep. Paedo for me. I think..

[Milltown Row2]

For the most part  the 4 hour HBO documentary is a gripping account of 2 boys and their family's journey through the experience of being sexually abused in the full glare of pop stardom. It starts with the initial grooming, the obsessive nature of the grooming, the manipulation of the family, the lure of pop stardom, the sexual abuse itself, the self denials, the lies, the repression of the abuse trauma, the damaging psychological effects of the trauma, finally the shit hits the fan and whole families have to deal with the aftermath of the truth of what had been really happening all those years to the children in the company of Jackson.
As a piece of filmmaking  it's a brilliant documentary on sexual abuse, unparalleled.

It's also an indictment of a pedophile who just happens to be the world's most popular musician. But most rational people who were aware of signs of pedophilia and had examined the existing evidence, had already concluded to a reasonable certainty that Jackson was a pedophile and that his obsessive interest in children had a sexual attraction.

He had admitted to playing and sleeping with children separately in a remote room locked away in a basement. He was openly obsessed with children who were ever present in his life. The children (7 year olds) engaged in highly sexualised dance routines with him publicly on stage. Jackson's personality was evidently damaged and tales of abuse inflicted upon him as a child were many.
He had been dogged by persistent allegations of sexual abuse. The strongest evidenced case was bought off before it came to court with US$22m. Now the picture of the pedophile is fully formed.

Jackson's legacy will be stripped away from public life. Endorsing Jackson in public in any form will forever be associated with endorsing sex abuse pedophilia.  Every public image of Jackson will be removed, his wax images will be melted. Good riddance.

Some points that need to be looked at also, I for one think that Jackson was sexually involved with kids in some manner or form, though it doesnt matter which form that may take he was a child abuser (my view) though never convicted even over many years of various police forces attempts..

Questions need to be asked about how a local authorities actually allowed this to be facilitated, the parents were staying in the same house also which confuses me also..

The parenst were given no interest loans then the money that they owed back to Jackson after a small period was forgotten about ab dthey didnt have to pay it back.

The kids took gifts (rings jewellery) which they still keep, I mean what sort of person keeps stuff from a person that raped them!?
They also defended him under oath and allowed him to continue to rape (possibly) more kids and let down the ones that were brave enough to go against the Jackson media machine.

Personally I've no respect for them to now come out years later, and make a well made gripping documentary about being abused when they had the world media and Jackson there for the taking..

[tyrone08]

To be honest i would rather rewatch the numerous trials that he was put through including an FBI investigation all of which found him not guilty instead of watching a one sided "documentary".

Try believing actual facts and evidence rather than reality tv.

I am not defending him but anyone can say things about you when your dead. People are too quick these days to believe everything they hear instead of doing some research.

Tell me this does the "documentary" answer why they supported him was he was alive and didnt sue him them?

Havent seen the documentary but i would not be rushing to believe 2 people who swore under oath that mj had not abused them while he was alive.

If you are a parent would you take 22milion over justice for your kid? The whole the stinks of a money grab ploy to be honest.

You would have to think that there are easier ways to make money than baring your soul on a documentary and exposing yourself to the worst type of online vitriol and hate from legions of single diamante glove wielding weirdoes. In fact, given the baffling vitality of his fan base, a book entitled "MJ - Cool Guy - Defo Not A Paedophile" would be a much simpler way of cashing in?

Perhaps before saying The whole the stinks of a money grab ploy to be honest you might rectify this Havent seen the documentary ?

Good man.

[tyrone08]

If Jacko was a pedo then the kids should sue their parents as well for putting them in danager. Who in their right mind would let their own kid stay over at a mans house who they barely knew.

[Main Street]

For the most part  the 4 hour HBO documentary is a gripping account of 2 boys and their family's journey through the experience of being sexually abused in the full glare of pop stardom. It starts with the initial grooming, the obsessive nature of the grooming, the manipulation of the family, the lure of pop stardom, the sexual abuse itself, the self denials, the lies, the repression of the abuse trauma, the damaging psychological effects of the trauma, finally the shit hits the fan and whole families have to deal with the aftermath of the truth of what had been really happening all those years to the children in the company of Jackson.
As a piece of filmmaking  it's a brilliant documentary on sexual abuse, unparalleled.

It's also an indictment of a pedophile who just happens to be the world's most popular musician. But most rational people who were aware of signs of pedophilia and had examined the existing evidence, had already concluded to a reasonable certainty that Jackson was a pedophile and that his obsessive interest in children had a sexual attraction.

He had admitted to playing and sleeping with children separately in a remote room locked away in a basement. He was openly obsessed with children who were ever present in his life. The children (7 year olds) engaged in highly sexualised dance routines with him publicly on stage. Jackson's personality was evidently damaged and tales of abuse inflicted upon him as a child were many.
He had been dogged by persistent allegations of sexual abuse. The strongest evidenced case was bought off before it came to court with US$22m. Now the picture of the pedophile is fully formed.

Jackson's legacy will be stripped away from public life. Endorsing Jackson in public in any form will forever be associated with endorsing sex abuse pedophilia.  Every public image of Jackson will be removed, his wax images will be melted. Good riddance.

Do you think so?

Yes and it has already started

The paedophilia allegations have been around for more than 25 years (I remember being at a U2 gig at the RDS in '93 around the time they first came out and Bono saying "Michael Jackson, I don't believe you're bad"). He was tried and acquitted less than 15 years ago for the same.

That court judgement did not cleanse Jackson from the stain of persistent pedophilia allegations, nor did it cleanse him from the almost classic profile of a pedophile. The admitted facts from Jackson's life screamed pedophile. Popular acclaim / talent certainly masked it
It was just a matter of time before the remnants of the facade that protected him would be smashed.

At the same time, the allegations and suspicions were notably absent during the hysteria at the time of his death, at least here in the states, and have been since with regard his huge legacy. I watched the Netflix documentary on Quincy Jones (what a life he's led!) a few months back, and while they obviously delve into his major role in Jackson's solo career, I don't recall any mention of Jackson's personal life or conduct (I could be wrong).

That great reflector of public educated debate, the GAA discussion board, held a robust debate on the pedophile allegations after his death was reported http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12807.0
I'd assume there some level of debate elsewhere, and mention of pedophilia allegations in news reports of his death.

I think people basically just wanted to ignore it and just remember the artistic genius. Until now, at least. The Me Too movement has brought the reckoning for another offender.

That's not an educated perception of what has happened in this case.
The Jackson pedophile allegations have always hung like a cloud and it is low level sarcasm to say the Mee Too movement has claimed another victim, never mind putting Jackson the pedophile as a victim in all this.

Have you watched the program?  I'd hazard a guess that HBO legal team scrutinised every line of it.

[From the Bunker]

The Documentary showed how young children can be groomed for sex. How their families can be fooled into a false sense of security. How the child can be fooled in to maintaining a lie. A young mind is very impressionable.  Although they may know what has happened can be wrong, they can often believe they were part of the wrong doing. This in turn causes them to lie about it for fear of the repercussions of these event(s) getting out into the public domain. 

There will be more allegations to come out of the woodwork. This will depending on the allegations to be truthful and if there is compensation from his estate.

[easytiger95]

Wow.

Let's do this quick.

To be honest i would rather rewatch the numerous trials that he was put through including an FBI investigation all of which found him not guilty instead of watching a one sided "documentary".



The clue is in the title of the thread - we are talking about this documentary, not about his trials. And you are perfectly entitled to call it one-sided. Once you watch it. Which you haven't. And using inverted commas to emphasise your "scepticism" is a little "overblown" and "redundant" given the overall tone of your posts. Just a "style tip" for you.

Try believing actual facts and evidence rather than reality tv.

I'll be coming back to this one, but I will just say, as you haven't seen the "documentary" you are in no position to classify it as "reality tv" - you see what I'm doing here?

I am not defending him but anyone can say things about you when your dead. People are too quick these days to believe everything they hear instead of doing some research.



You are defending him. See your point just above about facts and evidence.

Tell me this does the "documentary" answer why they supported him was he was alive and didnt sue him them?


"Yes". It does. You should "watch" it.

[tyrone08]

Wow you are grumpy. So you would perfer to discuss the documentary rather than actual facts which dispute the entire documentary.

I used inverted commas because a documentary is defined as "a film or television or radio programme that provides a factual report on a particular subject." This cannot be a documentary then as it doesn't provide actual facts or evidence. If it did he would have been jailed.

I will watch it this weekend and get back to you. But as i said before unless it provides actual evidence then it simply should not be taken as fact.

Again im not defending him. I am following the rule of the law...iinnocent until proven guilty. Glad your not a judge.

[Dolph1]

Jackson's legacy will be stripped away from public life. Endorsing Jackson in public in any form will forever be associated with endorsing sex abuse pedophilia.  Every public image of Jackson will be removed, his wax images will be melted. Good riddance.

Do you agree with banning his music?

I have no opinion on banning his music. I believe the stripping of Jackson from the public arena will occur one way or another.
If a radio station does not ban his music, I believe individual presenters will not play his music.

Do you agree with pedophiles being honoured?

Even though the evidence seems overwhelming he was never convicted. This point is very important. We are watching mass hysteria based on a TV documentary.
This is not new news. Robson's story has been out since 2013. It's just been repackaged for the outrage generation.

Funny that the same people who are going apoplectic about Jackson are the same ones who dismiss third term abortion and post birth infanticide as normal.

Is this the start of banning celebrities who have been convicted of any crimes and purging their work from the archives?

[tyrone08]

Wow.

Let's do this quick.

To be honest i would rather rewatch the numerous trials that he was put through including an FBI investigation all of which found him not guilty instead of watching a one sided "documentary".



The clue is in the title of the thread - we are talking about this documentary, not about his trials. And you are perfectly entitled to call it one-sided. Once you watch it. Which you haven't. And using inverted commas to emphasise your "scepticism" is a little "overblown" and "redundant" given the overall tone of your posts. Just a "style tip" for you.

Try believing actual facts and evidence rather than reality tv.

I'll be coming back to this one, but I will just say, as you haven't seen the "documentary" you are in no position to classify it as "reality tv" - you see what I'm doing here?

I am not defending him but anyone can say things about you when your dead. People are too quick these days to believe everything they hear instead of doing some research.



You are defending him. See your point just above about facts and evidence.

Tell me this does the "documentary" answer why they supported him was he was alive and didnt sue him them?


"Yes". It does. You should "watch" it.

I will just leave this here for you to read and get back to me as you have seen the documentary. Please begin to explain this
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/joevogel/2019/01/29/what-you-should-know-about-the-new-michael-jackson-documentary/amp/

[Captain Obvious]

Every public image of Jackson will be removed.

Some task to achieve that...

[Falcao]

Here is the official response from MJ's estate:

https://mjjjusticeproject.wordpress....ing-neverland/

Watched the documentary last night, it is just the 2 lads telling their story, more of an interview than a documentary. Unless new evidence is found somewhere it is hard to see how they would ever win a case in court. You can see from the details in the estates response that the 2 lads credibility would be ripped to shreds quite easily.

[tyrone08]

Here is the official response from MJ's estate:

https://mjjjusticeproject.wordpress....ing-neverland/

Watched the documentary last night, it is just the 2 lads telling their story, more of an interview than a documentary. Unless new evidence is found somewhere it is hard to see how they would ever win a case in court. You can see from the details in the estates response that the 2 lads credibility would be ripped to shreds quite easily.

After reading the forbes story i am not even going to bother watching the documentary now. Its a bad sign of the times when alleged allegations by 2 people can get you stripped from history.