Antrim Hurling

[Last Man]

I should really ignore you Queenie but just this once? I am involved in juvenile development and I have attended county meetings to say my piece but the status quo will not be upset by one man, "Last Man" or whoever,democracy prevails in our beloved GAA as well you know. I am assuming some intelligence or knowledge of the current system on your part of course, over generous on my part possibly. Why don't you write down some of your good ideas on the back a postage stamp and send them on to me. I look forward to your constructive input and opinion.

Hold on a second.  You are the one who is blowing your mouth off about how bad we are, what needs to be done etc.  Your suggestion about me putting my ideas on the back of a postage stamp, I feel is typical of you apathy and a little uncallled for.  In many ways I agree with what you have said having witnessed the intensity, skill levels and pace of yesterdays game.  However, I dont believe that your rantings here outlining all that is wrong with the powers that be a HQ in Casement is going to change anyting.  Begrudgers they maybe, but all this talk about 'Long term development/strategy plans' is equally meaningless unless the quality of coaching within this county improves tenfold.  You can coach juveniles all you want, day in - day out, it will make now difference.  Until there is support from families, clubs, communities, parishes, divisional boards, county baords and provincial boards I may add, our wonderful 'sliotar agus caman' game is doomed.  The qulaity and intensity of our coaching/coaches needs to improve vastly.

Lets be real honest here, it needs major investment, it requires coaches of a high standard who bring no baggage with them.  It requires schools, clubs, parishes, communites etc, etc, to really commit to hurling to ensure it's long term survival in this part of the world.

In Antrim, 'CLUB' is everything, the only thing! 'County', where hurling in particular is concerned, is secondary and in many respects a costly inconvenience!  The entire 'mind set' regarding hurling and how we improve it in this county has to change.  Individuals at Club and County Board level need to look beyond self preservation and embrace a major willingness to change.  I am not sure there are that many indiviuduals in our county prepared to grasp such a nettle.   You can talk about the County board present imcumbents all you want.  We have done that for years.  You can criticise, moan, begrudge and engage in major character assassinations - sure have'nt we seen  and heard that all before!  In '89, we had our day in the sun and it looks like we are content with that!  Your club, my club and everybody eleses club is really all that matters when it comes down to it!

My issue is not with the board imcumbents but instead with the delegates who represent our clubs as they ultimately can influence change. Small minded clubs who can't see past their own gate and everybody look after their own is the road to nowhere. Clubs instead need to start working in partnership, get out there and evangelise about the game, stop intimidating people with their petty rivalries.
Rivalries should be saved until the ball is thrown in and put away afterwards.
What would that cost?

[theskull1]

Thanks hatchet for teaching us the theory on how to suck eggs.

[theskull1]

When you say you "bumped into"? 

[NAG1]

When is the Belfast strategy to be implemented?

I can see a big grand document with little or impact on the ground for lack of people to implement it.

[NAG1]

I just read it as, look how good we were then and how crap we are now.

Look at me being the only member of the team who has given something back.

Look at us we beat kilkenny when we were minors, I was right all along about Leinster.

I am not a fan personality wise and the attitude of the man so maybe I am biased but thats the way it came across to me.

[maxpower]

On Strategic Plans, grand and great to get aspirations down on paper and too see the resources required, much harder to implement and i wish the county board well in trying to do so.

Anyone starting to get the feeling that the amount of paid development officers may actually be preventing people coming forward to help, kinda 'thats there job' attitude.  I'm talking specifically about County level but with so many adverts appearing in recent years for club development officers it could seep down to Clubs.

I'm all on for development officers and i think the Schools in particular are a huge area of concern for Antrim gaels, in effect our juvenile season lasts from May to August, in the south the School competitions pick up when the club finishes, i read alot of autobiographies and too a man they all mention the influence some Brother or teacher has had on their hurling careers, the schools almost seem more important that the club.  Certainly the documentary on De La Salle in Waterford almost said as much.

Its the same in football in Ulster, look at the best players of the last few years, Canavan, O'Neill, McAnallen, add in others like Harte & Teirney, McGuckian, Lockhart, McGrath etc and you can see how football has flourish in Schools in Tyrone, Maghera, Newry yet hurling in Antrim remains in the doldums with only really Kieran Herron the big name hurler teaching, and of all schools he is at the most pro active hurling school in antrim anyhow.

We need to somehow encourage more coaching in the schools, and top class coaching, its not easy done and in the primary sector in particular i can see less and less men (let alone hurlers) entering the area of employment

We all know that it isn't one small thing that is hindering our development as a county it is thousands of small things, but the biggest obstacles are lethargy and finance

[theskull1]

You can't disagree with anything he has said, but as an ambassador for the game, yes he needs to be forthright with his opinions, but he needs to include what he feels needs to happen for it to get better in an equally forthright way.
The point he makes about the number of retired hurlers who wouldn't lift a finger round their clubs is the most important point IMO. We need to make them see that their job is not done when they hang up the boots and that they need to pass on their passion & knowledge of the game to the next generation or the whole thing falls to an arse. Boys like cloot, big niall & beaver come out of the woodwork to remaniss and talk about the good ole days but wouldn't antrim hurling have been all the better if they "and the rest" had been part of a well structured coaching development plan 20 years ago? They are the headline names of course but there are countless club hurlers who drifted away. If enough bodies could be persuaded to stay involved then the burden wouldn't be that great on the individual. Many hands make light work as they say but at the minute the committed ones spread themselves too thin and end up getting scundered by the workload combined with the apathy in fellow club/county men who either stand idly by or just go through the motions to keep their consciences clear.

[maxpower]

just reread my post and it sounds like i'm having a good at development officers, def not, i'm merely stating the fact they are paid (which is neccessary given the time required and working hours needed) may hinder them in doing the best job they can

On the Sambo interview, i don't see an awful lot wrong, it is as it is. I agree Leinster would help, and when i was minor i wished we could have competed rather than playing nonsense friendlies, before getting stuffed.  I like S&W attitude, don't agree with everything they've done but think they had the sporting arrogance that was needed.  IMHO they took the team 2 years too early

but they let more club games be played than i thought they would and that is a big thing that needs sorted also

[Queenie]

I should really ignore you Queenie but just this once? I am involved in juvenile development and I have attended county meetings to say my piece but the status quo will not be upset by one man, "Last Man" or whoever,democracy prevails in our beloved GAA as well you know. I am assuming some intelligence or knowledge of the current system on your part of course, over generous on my part possibly. Why don't you write down some of your good ideas on the back a postage stamp and send them on to me. I look forward to your constructive input and opinion.

Hold on a second.  You are the one who is blowing your mouth off about how bad we are, what needs to be done etc.  Your suggestion about me putting my ideas on the back of a postage stamp, I feel is typical of you apathy and a little uncalled for.  In many ways I agree with what you have said having witnessed the intensity, skill levels and pace of yesterdays game.  However, I don't believe that your rantings here outlining all that is wrong with the powers that be a HQ in Casement is going to change anyting.  Begrudgers they maybe, but all this talk about 'Long term development/strategy plans' is equally meaningless unless the quality of coaching within this county improves tenfold.  You can coach juveniles all you want, day in - day out, it will make now difference.  Until there is support from families, clubs, communities, parishes, divisional boards, county boards and provincial boards I may add, our wonderful 'sliotar agus caman' game is doomed.  The quality and intensity of our coaching/coaches needs to improve vastly.

Lets be real honest here, it needs major investment, it requires coaches of a high standard who bring no baggage with them.  It requires schools, clubs, parishes, communites etc, etc, to really commit to hurling to ensure it's long term survival in this part of the world.

In Antrim, 'CLUB' is everything, the only thing! 'County', where hurling in particular is concerned, is secondary and in many respects a costly inconvenience!  The entire 'mind set' regarding hurling and how we improve it in this county has to change.  Individuals at Club and County Board level need to look beyond self preservation and embrace a major willingness to change.  I am not sure there are that many individuals in our county prepared to grasp such a nettle.   You can talk about the County board present incumbents all you want.  We have done that for years.  You can criticise, moan, begrudge and engage in major character assassinations - sure haven't we seen  and heard that all before!  In '89, we had our day in the sun and it looks like we are content with that!  Your club, my club and everybody else's club is really all that matters when it comes down to it!

My issue is not with the board incumbents but instead with the delegates who represent our clubs as they ultimately can influence change. Small minded clubs who can't see past their own gate and everybody look after their own is the road to nowhere. Clubs instead need to start working in partnership, get out there and evangelise about the game, stop intimidating people with their petty rivalries.
Rivalries should be saved until the ball is thrown in and put away afterwards.
What would that cost?

Fair enough! But do you or anyone else for that matter see the likes of St. Johns (my club) working closely with the likes of Rossa? Or can you imagine the likes of Loughgeil working in tandem/harmony with Dunloy as part of an overall aim/objective with a greater 'strategic Plan' I honestly don't think so.  Hate to sound if I am being apathetic, but being a little bit longer in the tooth than most of you fellas and also having been around a few hurling corners, I cant honestly see or envisage the necessary change required to improve our hurling lot in the near future.

For the great and necessary change to evolve, to me there would have to be serious casualties among the present personnel within the county admin and at club level also.  A fair amount of gutting out would have to take place. That may sound very radical, but believe me it would be a major prerequisite.

[Queenie]

By the way, my spell checker is working again, so no need for the 'Dictionary' smart ass!

[Queenie]

Queenie, a long term strategc development plan has to be guided by a goal or an aim.

For example in terms of hurling development it might be: To foster, develop and create sustainable structures within the entire Antrim GAA family to compete at the very highest level both Domestically and Nationally consistently and competitively for the next 100 years.

The work is in the how do we do that and this would cover absolutely everything from coaching, to club structures, to funding, to kits, to equipment, to mental development, skills development, medical research even.  Absolutely everything.  After everything has been explored in all facets of the plan using good examples from other counties and all that, they are actioned!!  So you may have 15 different strands to the strategic plan, all with their own actions and timescales.  For example if one of them is club coaching, then first stage is to call a club meeting (by a certain time), recruit at least 20 volunteers (by march 2010), Have at least 15 out of 20 qualified up to Level one (by Macrh 2011), hold internal club coaching days an development - sharing of theories and drills etc (2 x per year), have 4 mentors per team (March 2011), hold training sessions 2 x per week (March 2011).  Same in terms of recruitment if your club is struggling for numbers: Aim - to get more kids.  How we gonna do it: Leaflets (March 2010), community/parish fun day or registration days etc etc etc.

If and its a big if, all clubs were guided by professional and competent people directing this huge operation and in particular if clubs stuck to it, then that would be the Long Term Strategic Development and Action plan in place.  You review it after a year or 6 months and alter it if need be.  But this plan would cover abolutely EVERYTHING from clubs organising equipment and fundraising to the County Board making its necessary changes to become more effective and to learn how to help manage such a plan and guess what,t hey would aso havn action plan to do that too although they would have to tell themselves that because they couldn't take anyone else telling them what to do and what not to.

I normally charge for this sortt of education by the way

I dont need a lesson from you about 'Strategic Plans' either.  Sure did'nt I write the strategic plan for GNM when they needed the 50K to buy the land their club sits on!

You can talk about all the Strategic Plans/Actions Plans you want.  In my vast expereince, they generally sit on shelves and gather dust.  (They cost a lot of money also).

Strategic/Action Plans need to be implemented, reviewed, frequently reviewed and modified against timesales.  More importantly, do you see the bollocks who is supposed to be implementing it and overseeing it, if things are shaping up against the deadlines, you shaft the useless fecker!

[Queenie]

Queenie, a long term strategc development plan has to be guided by a goal or an aim.

For example in terms of hurling development it might be: To foster, develop and create sustainable structures within the entire Antrim GAA family to compete at the very highest level both Domestically and Nationally consistently and competitively for the next 100 years.

The work is in the how do we do that and this would cover absolutely everything from coaching, to club structures, to funding, to kits, to equipment, to mental development, skills development, medical research even.  Absolutely everything.  After everything has been explored in all facets of the plan using good examples from other counties and all that, they are actioned!!  So you may have 15 different strands to the strategic plan, all with their own actions and timescales.  For example if one of them is club coaching, then first stage is to call a club meeting (by a certain time), recruit at least 20 volunteers (by march 2010), Have at least 15 out of 20 qualified up to Level one (by Macrh 2011), hold internal club coaching days an development - sharing of theories and drills etc (2 x per year), have 4 mentors per team (March 2011), hold training sessions 2 x per week (March 2011).  Same in terms of recruitment if your club is struggling for numbers: Aim - to get more kids.  How we gonna do it: Leaflets (March 2010), community/parish fun day or registration days etc etc etc.

If and its a big if, all clubs were guided by professional and competent people directing this huge operation and in particular if clubs stuck to it, then that would be the Long Term Strategic Development and Action plan in place.  You review it after a year or 6 months and alter it if need be.  But this plan would cover abolutely EVERYTHING from clubs organising equipment and fundraising to the County Board making its necessary changes to become more effective and to learn how to help manage such a plan and guess what,t hey would aso havn action plan to do that too although they would have to tell themselves that because they couldn't take anyone else telling them what to do and what not to.

I normally charge for this sortt of education by the way

I dont need a lesson from you about 'Strategic Plans' either.  Sure did'nt I write the strategic plan for GNM when they needed the 50K to buy the land their club sits on!

You can talk about all the Strategic Plans/Actions Plans you want.  In my vast expereince, they generally sit on shelves and gather dust.  (They cost a lot of money also).

Strategic/Action Plans need to be implemented, reviewed, frequently reviewed and modified against timesales.  More importantly, do you see the bollocks who is supposed to be implementing it and overseeing it, if things are shaping up against the deadlines, you shaft the useless fecker!

Now where in the hell are you going to find 'Professional and Competent' people with such attruibutes in GNM! I dont think so.  And if you do by some stretch of the imagination, you implement your plan and see where that takes you!

My Plan is this.  Lets send a team of professional consultants about 180 miles down the road to a county within Leinster (get me drift, Meeoowwww!)  Let them study how things are done in that county. Then get them to find us abou 35 players of the calibre of Tommy Walsh, King Henry, Cha Fitz and lend them to Antrim.  Send them out to play hurling for Antrim, win a Liam, and then everyone here will be happy. Full stop!   

[Queenie]

Hi HatchetMan,  you have been listening to too much of that Sinn Fein rhetoric at the top of the Rock.  Lets get back to living in the real world for goodness sake.

Who is going to fund all these grand ideas of your strategic plan?  Unless you know a wee bank down town with the side doors open!

[Last Man]

I should really ignore you Queenie but just this once? I am involved in juvenile development and I have attended county meetings to say my piece but the status quo will not be upset by one man, "Last Man" or whoever,democracy prevails in our beloved GAA as well you know. I am assuming some intelligence or knowledge of the current system on your part of course, over generous on my part possibly. Why don't you write down some of your good ideas on the back a postage stamp and send them on to me. I look forward to your constructive input and opinion.

Hold on a second.  You are the one who is blowing your mouth off about how bad we are, what needs to be done etc.  Your suggestion about me putting my ideas on the back of a postage stamp, I feel is typical of you apathy and a little uncalled for.  In many ways I agree with what you have said having witnessed the intensity, skill levels and pace of yesterdays game.  However, I don't believe that your rantings here outlining all that is wrong with the powers that be a HQ in Casement is going to change anyting.  Begrudgers they maybe, but all this talk about 'Long term development/strategy plans' is equally meaningless unless the quality of coaching within this county improves tenfold.  You can coach juveniles all you want, day in - day out, it will make now difference.  Until there is support from families, clubs, communities, parishes, divisional boards, county boards and provincial boards I may add, our wonderful 'sliotar agus caman' game is doomed.  The quality and intensity of our coaching/coaches needs to improve vastly.

Lets be real honest here, it needs major investment, it requires coaches of a high standard who bring no baggage with them.  It requires schools, clubs, parishes, communites etc, etc, to really commit to hurling to ensure it's long term survival in this part of the world.

In Antrim, 'CLUB' is everything, the only thing! 'County', where hurling in particular is concerned, is secondary and in many respects a costly inconvenience!  The entire 'mind set' regarding hurling and how we improve it in this county has to change.  Individuals at Club and County Board level need to look beyond self preservation and embrace a major willingness to change.  I am not sure there are that many individuals in our county prepared to grasp such a nettle.   You can talk about the County board present incumbents all you want.  We have done that for years.  You can criticise, moan, begrudge and engage in major character assassinations - sure haven't we seen  and heard that all before!  In '89, we had our day in the sun and it looks like we are content with that!  Your club, my club and everybody else's club is really all that matters when it comes down to it!

My issue is not with the board incumbents but instead with the delegates who represent our clubs as they ultimately can influence change. Small minded clubs who can't see past their own gate and everybody look after their own is the road to nowhere. Clubs instead need to start working in partnership, get out there and evangelise about the game, stop intimidating people with their petty rivalries.
Rivalries should be saved until the ball is thrown in and put away afterwards.
What would that cost?

Fair enough! But do you or anyone else for that matter see the likes of St. Johns (my club) working closely with the likes of Rossa? Or can you imagine the likes of Loughgeil working in tandem/harmony with Dunloy as part of an overall aim/objective with a greater 'strategic Plan' I honestly don't think so.  Hate to sound if I am being apathetic, but being a little bit longer in the tooth than most of you fellas and also having been around a few hurling corners, I cant honestly see or envisage the necessary change required to improve our hurling lot in the near future.

For the great and necessary change to evolve, to me there would have to be serious casualties among the present personnel within the county admin and at club level also.  A fair amount of gutting out would have to take place. That may sound very radical, but believe me it would be a major prerequisite.

We have been waiting from direction from the CB for years and lets face we won't be getting any so leave that one for now. The divisional boards hold the key IMO and certain club personell would have to be gassed no matter what good short term work they are perceived to do.
Chasing juvenile silverware at all costs has to stop, that would go a long way to reducing inter club bitterness and promote co-operation.

[SaffronArmy]

Hatchet, fair play. A lot of negative people around here that would complain and point out what is wrong, but you took your time and pointed out what needs to be done to correct these wrongs. Although it may seem simple, I'm sure those ideas wouldn't have been as quickly thought up at county board, or south antrim level. Your ideas are a mirror image of your progressing club. One thing I'd like to know however, and not just about GNM, about every city club, and country for that matter. How many coaches would you say you have around the ability of say, taking a minor county team. I know there aren't too many about, and I think this is what this debate is all about, the more quality coaches we have, the better our players are going to be, simple. More things need to be carried out, the way the north antrim board have done with the Munster coaches, when was the last time this took place? This should be happening at a county level, but look how long it has taken them to act, things need to be acted upon straight away to start our slow rise to the top.