Paddy O'Rourke's comments on intercounty demands

Started by Jinxy, February 15, 2018, 09:02:56 PM

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Jinxy

Quote from: Syferus on February 16, 2018, 12:01:43 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 16, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 16, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Can see this from both points.  Paddy knows that putting in months of hard graft, sacrifice and effort isn't going to bear any fruit and to be fair the way things are going only 4 teams are going to be thereabouts come silverware time.  Leinster is an especially hard nut to crack these days which Dublin dominating. 

Retrospectively, most players would talk about more than the medals sitting in a drawer at home when reflecting on their careers.  The camaraderie, sense of belonging and the bond is what most take away I think.  I would say if Paddy is content he has walked away knowing he has taken out of Meath what he wanted then fair dues.  You have to step away at some stage.

The sooner we get to a tiered championship like at club level the better. The clamour for it is growing all the time. The Longford manager was the latest to call for it this week. Ridiculous and deflating that teams like Longford and Wicklow are expected to take on Dublin.

You're smoking some shît if you think a tiered system would make the situation better and not worse.

I think a tiered system and a condensed intercounty season would solve a lot of issues within the broader GAA.
However, I'm conscious of unintended consequences.
That said, with the introduction of the Super Eight format, we will have a 'Division 1' by default.
I understand that there would be significant resistance to the introduction of a tiered championship but simple logic suggests it's the best way to go.
The biggest risk associated with this for me is that the 'product' becomes significantly more attractive as a result.
Not just for fans, but for advertisers, TV companies etc.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

trileacman

Quote from: shark on February 16, 2018, 01:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 09:39:57 AM
Trileacman I'm wondering who's the 4th BIG in Leinster?
There's Dublin, Meath, Kildare and.....?

It's a long time since Westmeath lost to any Leinster team outside of Dublin.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. To be honest it generous to include Meath in a Leinster Big 4
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

Esmarelda

Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 01:24:51 PM
No matter how bad Wicklow or Carlow were previously Meath and Offaly were winning or had a realistic  hope of winning Leinster.
Problem is now as said above teams are only playing for a place ir Round 4 of the Qualifiers.
What's that got to do with Wicklow or Carlow?

My point was that Wicklow or Carlow always set off in Leinster with seemingly no chance of winning. Nothing has changed on that front so why is there such a push for change?

My guess is that, although some intercounty players like O'Rourke are quitting for the reasons outlined, that most still want to play for their county regardless. This may change and may be currently changing. But as of a few years ago, there was no appetite among players from Division 3 and 4 to either scrap the provincials or to introduce a tiered championship.

joemamas

Quote from: Jinxy on February 16, 2018, 01:40:42 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 16, 2018, 12:01:43 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 16, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 16, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Can see this from both points.  Paddy knows that putting in months of hard graft, sacrifice and effort isn't going to bear any fruit and to be fair the way things are going only 4 teams are going to be thereabouts come silverware time.  Leinster is an especially hard nut to crack these days which Dublin dominating. 

Retrospectively, most players would talk about more than the medals sitting in a drawer at home when reflecting on their careers.  The camaraderie, sense of belonging and the bond is what most take away I think.  I would say if Paddy is content he has walked away knowing he has taken out of Meath what he wanted then fair dues.  You have to step away at some stage.

The sooner we get to a tiered championship like at club level the better. The clamour for it is growing all the time. The Longford manager was the latest to call for it this week. Ridiculous and deflating that teams like Longford and Wicklow are expected to take on Dublin.

You're smoking some shît if you think a tiered system would make the situation better and not worse.

I think a tiered system and a condensed intercounty season would solve a lot of issues within the broader GAA.
However, I'm conscious of unintended consequences.
That said, with the introduction of the Super Eight format, we will have a 'Division 1' by default.
I understand that there would be significant resistance to the introduction of a tiered championship but simple logic suggests it's the best way to go.
The biggest risk associated with this for me is that the 'product' becomes significantly more attractive as a result.
Not just for fans, but for advertisers, TV companies etc.

I agree 100% with this and your previous comments.
It is Ffin stupid right now.
The only people who are still protecting the provincial status quo at SENIOR level at the paid employees of the provinces. IMO, they have wielded way way too much power over the last 20 years or more. Tradition, tradition was the cry, tradition also  had the Bishop and ten others throwing the ball in to start the game, and then run like Fuc* to the sidelines. Time to move on.

How and why did intermediate and junior come about at club level.
If you have promotion and demotion of 1 or 2 teams every year from two or three tiered divisions then it will most likely sort it self out.
and have all two or three games on all-Ireland weekend Sat/Sun. God forbid you move the U17 to the evening before. 

If they don't then in three or fours years, half the teams will ultimately accept their fate, and a lot more players from divison 3 and div 4 will be saying the same thing as POR.


Rossfan

Can you imagine the laughter if someone put a motion to the Roscommon County Convention to
1 Abolish the Junior and Intermediate grades and have one County Championship.
2 Start up Regional Championships with 5, 6, 7 and 10 teams where the winners of each would go straight to Qtr Finals.

Logic says 3 All Ireland Championships ( keep Provincials as stand alones with all grades entering like in Kerry) with promotion and relegation.
Have a League of some sort as a pre season competition.
Designate certain weekends of the 27 between 1st weekend April to 1st weekend in October as club only (say 11) and others as County only (11) with the other (5) flexible.
All All Ireland Finals same weekend U17, U20,  Senior, Inter, Junior.

To those who say players from weak Counties are opposed -when did players ever get to say or decide what type or format of competitions?
Even the GPA despite becoming insiders had their proposals barred from even getting to Congress 2 years ago.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Esmarelda

Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 03:35:16 PM
Can you imagine the laughter if someone put a motion to the Roscommon County Convention to
1 Abolish the Junior and Intermediate grades and have one County Championship.
2 Start up Regional Championships with 5, 6, 7 and 10 teams where the winners of each would go straight to Qtr Finals.

Logic says 3 All Ireland Championships ( keep Provincials as stand alones with all grades entering like in Kerry) with promotion and relegation.
Have a League of some sort as a pre season competition.
Designate certain weekends of the 27 between 1st weekend April to 1st weekend in October as club only (say 11) and others as County only (11) with the other (5) flexible.
All All Ireland Finals same weekend U17, U20,  Senior, Inter, Junior.

To those who say players from weak Counties are opposed -when did players ever get to say or decide what type or format of competitions?
Even the GPA despite becoming insiders had their proposals barred from even getting to Congress 2 years ago.
Nobody said they get to decide. But whose opinions should be given more weight? Yours and mine? Journalists? Could you imagine the uproar if Croke Park asked the question, were told no to abolishing provincial championship and bringing in tiered championships by the players and went ahead and did it anyway?

Also, what's the logic you talk about with regards to three all-ireland championships? Even with a crude split based on league positions, do you think Leitrim, Wicklow and London would jump at the chance to having zero chance of winning a different competition? How about Meath or Tipperary in the senior?

Rossfan

I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon  and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Syferus

Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon  and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.

His accountant.

Esmarelda

Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon  and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.
I don't get your example. St. Ronan's have no chance of winning? If so, isn't the format failing them as the current AI championship fails most counties?

Reasons given for bringing in the Super 8 (not mine) were (1) in response to certain counties having a very easy path to the semi-finals, e.g. usually three games for Kerry versus possibly five for Donegal/Tyrone. (2) losing provincial finalists now will have a second chance like everyone else previously had (I know Mickey Harte had definitely complained about this) and (3) loads and loads and loads of reasons linked to €€€€€€€€€€€ which, as well all know, is all that matters to the fat cats etc. etc. etc.

I'm open to correction, but I don't think the CPA was in existence when the new structure was decided upon.

Blowitupref

On the AIB original interview Paddy O Rourke said.

Quote
I would never have quit the panel when Mick O'Dowd was manager because he's a fellow Skryne clubman

I think this is the case with some players on every county panel, they won't quit when they know or like the manager. O Rourke also said he was always going to give Andy McEntee a chance yet that chance was just one year so educated guess would be that McEntee has upped the training and prepartion from what O Dowd was doing and players such as O Rourke don't have time to give the type of commitment that McEntee requires.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Syferus

Quote from: Blowitupref on February 16, 2018, 05:02:47 PM
On the AIB original interview Paddy O Rourke said.

Quote
I would never have quit the panel when Mick O'Dowd was manager because he's a fellow Skryne clubman

I think this is the case with some players on every county panel, they won't quit when they know or like the manager. O Rourke also said he was always going to give Andy McEntee a chance yet that chance was just one year so educated guess would be that McEntee has upped the training and prepartion from what O Dowd was doing and players such as O Rourke don't have time to give the type of commitment that McEntee requires.


..or the writing was already on the wall before Dowd even arrived, and once he left O'Rourke was honest with himself. Which seems more likely.

Rossfan

Esmarelda the CPA asked last year's Congress to hold off the so called Super 8 so they obviously were in existence before the decision was made.
One only County Championship in Roscommon would fail small thinly populated clubs like St Ronans.
That's why we have 3 different graded Championships like most Counties  ( Cork's and Kerry have more I believe).
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Captain Obvious

#42
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 16, 2018, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon  and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.
I don't get your example. St. Ronan's have no chance of winning? If so, isn't the format failing them as the current AI championship fails most counties?

Reasons given for bringing in the Super 8 (not mine) were (1) in response to certain counties having a very easy path to the semi-finals, e.g. usually three games for Kerry versus possibly five for Donegal/Tyrone. (2) losing provincial finalists now will have a second chance like everyone else previously had (I know Mickey Harte had definitely complained about this) and (3) loads and loads and loads of reasons linked to €€€€€€€€€€€ which, as well all know, is all that matters to the fat cats etc. etc. etc.

I'm open to correction, but I don't think the CPA was in existence when the new structure was decided upon.

€€€€€€€€€€€ is the number one reason,  If All quarter final attendances weren't dropping in recent years a change would not have taken place.  The fat cats don't care if the weak become weaker with this new format all they care about is that more high profile games played in the height of the summer equals more €€€€€€€€€€€

Esmarelda

Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 16, 2018, 05:09:00 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 16, 2018, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon  and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.
I don't get your example. St. Ronan's have no chance of winning? If so, isn't the format failing them as the current AI championship fails most counties?

Reasons given for bringing in the Super 8 (not mine) were (1) in response to certain counties having a very easy path to the semi-finals, e.g. usually three games for Kerry versus possibly five for Donegal/Tyrone. (2) losing provincial finalists now will have a second chance like everyone else previously had (I know Mickey Harte had definitely complained about this) and (3) loads and loads and loads of reasons linked to €€€€€€€€€€€ which, as well all know, is all that matters to the fat cats etc. etc. etc.

I'm open to correction, but I don't think the CPA was in existence when the new structure was decided upon.

€€€€€€€€€€€ is the number one reason,  If All quarter final attendances weren't dropping in recent years a change would not have taken place.  The fat cats don't care if the weak become weaker with this new format all they care about is that more high profile games in the height of the summer equals more €€€€€€€€€€€
;D ;D ;D ;D
Who are these overweight felines?

They openly admitted that it would compensate for dropping attendances. The number of replays will likely be reduced which would reduce income. They're not pretending that they want to make money. It's like, "you see, he admitted it".

Lar Naparka

Quote from: lenny on February 16, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 16, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Can see this from both points.  Paddy knows that putting in months of hard graft, sacrifice and effort isn't going to bear any fruit and to be fair the way things are going only 4 teams are going to be thereabouts come silverware time.  Leinster is an especially hard nut to crack these days which Dublin dominating. 

Retrospectively, most players would talk about more than the medals sitting in a drawer at home when reflecting on their careers.  The camaraderie, sense of belonging and the bond is what most take away I think.  I would say if Paddy is content he has walked away knowing he has taken out of Meath what he wanted then fair dues.  You have to step away at some stage.

The sooner we get to a tiered championship like at club level the better. The clamour for it is growing all the time. The Longford manager was the latest to call for it this week. Ridiculous and deflating that teams like Longford and Wicklow are expected to take on Dublin.
Lenny, the trouble is that we did have a tiered championship of sorts, The Tommy Murphy Cup, and it lasted only two (I think) seasons. If you remember, that was a competition for Div 4 teams to give them a shot at making an appearance in Croke Park. Problem was none of the weaker teams were enthusiastic about the idea.
Back in 1984, the centenary of the GAA's founding, an open championship format was trialled for the Centenary Cup. It also lasted only two years. The vast majority of GAA people would agree that a change of format of some sort is needed but very few it seems are prepared to do anything about it.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi