Under 12 championships - no more Go Games

[Downtheroad]

Has anyone else heard the rule change at Under 12 level that 13 a side championships are to be allowed run in football and hurling thus doing away with the Go Games format at U12 level, which has been pared back to U11 level?

I think the background to this is that underage is going to u13,15,17 in some if not all counties.It's is a good idea where there will be a clear divide between underage and adult so that both can run without interference with each other as happens at the moment. We all know the problem with minors playing too many games. 

[manfromdelmonte]

Has anyone else heard the rule change at Under 12 level that 13 a side championships are to be allowed run in football and hurling thus doing away with the Go Games format at U12 level, which has been pared back to U11 level?

I think the background to this is that underage is going to u13,15,17 in some if not all counties.It's is a good idea where there will be a clear divide between underage and adult so that both can run without interference with each other as happens at the moment. We all know the problem with minors playing too many games.

In most counties most minors don't play enough.gsmes

[Avondhu star]

The one big issue not being addressed is the loss of players particularly when they enter secondary school. If kids dont get game time they will quickly go off the sport and find something else to do. Coaches and managers really dont care about losing weaker young lads as long as they can field a team and supplement a panel by bringing up a strong player from a younger age group. There are plenty so called weaker lads though who stuck with it and developed into fine players as they grew physically.

i think thats where internal competitions such as schools leagues should come into it. Kids don't really mind who they are playing as long as they are getting a game . Games should be competitive but not necessarily with in structured competitions

From a parents viewpoint there is nothing worse than rushing from work on a Summer evening in order to get lads to matches half way across the county or even locally and the lad doesnt even get a run out maybe because of big panels or the coach bringing up a stronger player from a younger team. I can understand why young lads would walk away. There is nothing wrong with competition but participation is also important

[johnneycool]

First I've heard of it  but if true it's a step in the right direction. Competitiveness is natural to that age group, let them play and experience winning but more importantly losing. GoGames is a fantastic initiative but I think U12 is a bit too old to ask kids to play non competitively.

Kids are inherently competitive and that should never be stymied, but its the behaviour of parents and coaches are the worry.

With Go games coaches are more inclined to give the weaker lads a run out as it doesn't matter in terms of who scored what plus parents especially of the stronger kids are more inclined to see past their wee Jonny not getting to do everything in pursuit of a "victory".

Remove that and there's now pressure on coaches and dickhead parents putting pressure on their kids to chase a bit of tin at the end of the year.

Wee Jonny should have taken that free you know.

[The Insider]

Longford have been doing this for the last 4 years , we also have a cross border competition with Leitrim clubs that has been successful going into its 4th year this May . Caters for all sizes of clubs . Groups of 4 teams with 2 from each county . Finals alternate between Pearse Park and Pairc Sean each year depending on pairings . Leitrim likely to move to the odd year grades this year . Longford sticking with the traditional grades for now

[The Gs Man]

We're planning to give every U12 at least a half this year whether we're 10 up at half-time or 10 down.

Your wee shy kid at U 12 may be your senior midfielder in 8 years time.

[magpie seanie]

We're planning to give every U12 at least a half this year whether we're 10 up at half-time or 10 down.

Your wee shy kid at U 12 may be your senior midfielder in 8 years time.

You're 100% correct but try telling that to the big lads Dad who's trying to relive his failed sporting career through his 11 year old man child!

[The Gs Man]

I hear ye Seanie!  We'll cross that bridge when we come to it though.

You can't do right for doing wrong sometimes.  Sticking to our principles though and hopefully people will see the bigger picture.

In an ideal world all clubs would follow the same principle and it would level things out.

[AZOffaly]

I hear ye Seanie!  We'll cross that bridge when we come to it though.

You can't do right for doing wrong sometimes.  Sticking to our principles though and hopefully people will see the bigger picture.

In an ideal world all clubs would follow the same principle and it would level things out.

Also just be aware of the other kids, particularly the better ones.Kids are, has been stated, competitive. If you are bringing off better lads, to bring on weaker lads, then you'll have to make sure the better kids don't start getting pissed off, or angry at the weaker kids. Two issues can occur there

1 - The better kids start getting disillusioned and pissed off with the game and/or with the weaker kids. "We lost because you came on"
2 - The weaker kids start getting scared to turn up because they know they have to play. "I'm not going because I don't want the others to shout at me".

That's a reason why I prefer to tke the parental grief up front, and field several teams (numbers allowing) at levels that are challenging enough for all the players, without being daunting or frightening for the weaker lads. Some kids think they should be higher, while their parents can get thick. But as long as everyone knows you are trying to give lads maximum playing time at a level they can enjoy and improve at, then it tends to work itself out.

[The Gs Man]

Good points there AZ and will definitely take them on board.

I'm moving up from U 10 Go Games to help out with the U 12s.  Luckily the U 12 coaches are staying on as well and they employed the same system last year.

As you say, being up front with the parents and trying to get them to see the bigger picture will be the biggest issue to overcome.

We've a big enough panel for 1 team but not enough for 2 teams so we'll be getting a lot of challenge matches organised as well.  Some kids might get more game time than others (this will bring problems no doubt) but we'll be guaranteeing every kid a half. 

[AZOffaly]

Good points there AZ and will definitely take them on board.

I'm moving up from U 10 Go Games to help out with the U 12s.  Luckily the U 12 coaches are staying on as well and they employed the same system last year.

As you say, being up front with the parents and trying to get them to see the bigger picture will be the biggest issue to overcome.

We've a big enough panel for 1 team but not enough for 2 teams so we'll be getting a lot of challenge matches organised as well.  Some kids might get more game time than others (this will bring problems no doubt) but we'll be guaranteeing every kid a half.

Yeah it sounds like ye know what yer doing. I know we walked ourselves into issues a couple of years ago because of best intentions. We never really got the parental buy in up front, so they thought our u12 coaches were basically brain dead idiots. Giving everyone equal time sounds great until you are in a close game and you have to take off a better player to put on a weaker one. It's the right thing to do, but it takes belief in your approach to do it. All you can do is try and explain up front what you are doing.

I had a situation myself with a development squad where I committed that every player would get a game. We had 3 group games, and a 'final' in our tournament, spread over 4 weeks. The problem was that by the final, because of a combination of bad circumstances and poor planning by me, we had one lad who hadn't played at all. We were playing the third game, which was when I had slated him to come on, and because of the way the game was going, I couldn't bring him on because the other lads would have gone mental. We were winning by 8 points and needed to win by 11 (we thought) to make the final. As it transpired, we made the final because the final positions were based on scores conceded rather than score difference (We won 2 and lost 1).

Anyway, after the game I spoke to the young lad and apologised to him, and I promised him that he would play the next week, come hell or high water. I reiterated to my co-selectors that this was happening, and we picked him to start, ahead of one of the better players. I reasoned that I'd prefer to start him, give him a half at least, and bring on the other lad if the game was close. But either way I was a bit ashamed of myself for not playing him the previous week, and I knew it was more important for him to play, than for us to win a poxy tournament. I also reasoned it would be better for the other lads to see the better lad coming on, rather than being taken off to be replaced by someone weaker.

I was happy enough with that, and then when I got to the location, and we were about to name the starting lineup, the young lad came up to me and said he hurt his ankle playing outside with his mates the night before. I felt so bad for him, and tried to make sure he was really unable to go, but he was certain.

It was only after I told him that I was really sorry, and that he would have started, that I saw relief in his face and I realised he no more wanted to play than the man in the moon. He felt nervous because he knew he had to play at some stage, and the final was the only game left. So he faked an injury (I believe).

Now this was a divisional side, so they were all reasonable standard, and this lad would have been in no way embarrassed, but because I made an arse of not bringing him on in an earlier game, he played no football with us in 'competitive' games. He played a challenge match or two alright. I've been doing this for a few years now, and it's the first time it happened to me, and it's a lesson I'll learn. But as well as what I'm learning from it, it also pinpointed that topic of a young lad feeling out of his depth. I had no idea he felt like that, I assumed he'd be raging he wasn't playing. At club level that may be even more of a problem, so look out for it, and try build up their confidence, but also put them in situations where they can gain confidence, rather than just firing them in in 'pressure' situations, or where they are completely out of their depth.

[The Gs Man]

Good advice again AZ.  Hadn't really thought of it from that point of view before, so will definitely discuss this with the rest of the coaches.

I've been involved with U 8 and U 10, but this is the first year at U 12 and I expect it to be a lot more difficult coming out of the GO Games format.

A steep learning curve ahead no doubt!

Another issue we have is that most of our coaches have their own kid playing in the age group.  I can foresee problems with this with perceived bias.  Although I'm more likely to substitute my kid first which may not be fair on him either.

Any experience in this area?

[No wides]

Good advice again AZ.  Hadn't really thought of it from that point of view before, so will definitely discuss this with the rest of the coaches.

I've been involved with U 8 and U 10, but this is the first year at U 12 and I expect it to be a lot more difficult coming out of the GO Games format.

A steep learning curve ahead no doubt!

Another issue we have is that most of our coaches have their own kid playing in the age group.  I can foresee problems with this with perceived bias.  Although I'm more likely to substitute my kid first which may not be fair on him either.

Any experience in this area?

This is a huge issue in my opinion, coaches following their kids, its not the bias of their son, I have found it is the bias for their son's mates is the issue.  Personally I think if you want to coach, coach but following your kid doesn't help the coach or the kid.

[Avondhu star]

Of course too there can be a big difference in the physical build up of a lad born in January and a lad born in December.  I think once kids hit 12 you have to have competition. But getting around player loss is difficult. Kids will have some many distractions and all the good underage coaching could be wasted. Of course many parents just use gaa nurseries as their babysitter on a Saturday morning while they go off for brunch. I don't know how many times I've seen the car pull up, back door open and little Johnny hop out with his gear bag and away the car goes.

[The Gs Man]

Good advice again AZ.  Hadn't really thought of it from that point of view before, so will definitely discuss this with the rest of the coaches.

I've been involved with U 8 and U 10, but this is the first year at U 12 and I expect it to be a lot more difficult coming out of the GO Games format.

A steep learning curve ahead no doubt!

Another issue we have is that most of our coaches have their own kid playing in the age group.  I can foresee problems with this with perceived bias.  Although I'm more likely to substitute my kid first which may not be fair on him either.

Any experience in this area?

This is a huge issue in my opinion, coaches following their kids, its not the bias of their son, I have found it is the bias for their son's mates is the issue.  Personally I think if you want to coach, coach but following your kid doesn't help the coach or the kid.

I can see your point here No Wides, but with us being small rural club, coaches are hard to come by and most of our underage teams would be coached by parents. 

It's a difficult situation alright.