Tyrone v Dublin - The return of the Jedi

[omagh_gael]

It will be interesting to see what happens if Tyrone have a rocky start. If attacks are breaking down regularly in the first quarter and the running game is faltering what will Harte/the team do? We never got going at all against Mayo last year and we don't really know if the team has significantly improved since then.

[Il Bomber Destro]

You have to play the system that best suits the players you have at your disposal. Harte doesn't have any real marquee forwards capable of shooting the lights out a la Brogan, Rock, O Donoghue or Geaney. Most of his best players are stacked in the middle 8 and are strong athletes best suited to a running style. Therefore he has to compensate by playing this ultra defensive system. It is not pretty to watch but sometimes you have to cut your cloth to suit. Any rational manager with an ounce of sense would play a similar system as Harte. In his own words, he is not there to entertain, he is there to win.

Maybe this is the only system that suits these Tyrone players. Far be it for me to argue with Mickey Harte about this. Looking from the outside it seems a lot of decent forwards have been sacrificed to the system over the last few years. No forward is going to be marquee playing this kind of football but for me this style of football has nothing to do with lack of forwards and all to do with no confidence in his defense.
As I said Mickey Harte went all in a couple of years ago that this was the way to beat Dublin. He has been refining the system over the last 3 years. 2015 they were two inexperienced for Kerry so they didn't get a chance to try it on Dublin, 2016 they didn't perform and off course the big bad wolf Lee Keegan stopped them trying it out on Dublin. 2017, No more excuses. This is it. If it doesn't work where do Mickey Harte and Tyrone turn to

I agree with this and have been arguing the case on this board for a good while. There is plenty of attacking talent in Tyrone but Mickey made a choice to rebuild the team using this particular model and just having attacking flair isn't enough. That's why boys like Ronan O'Neill and Darren McCurry are on the bench and Raymie Mulgrew and Kyle Coney are watching the games on TV. Now maybe that was the correct, pragmatic decision, but it's wrong IMO to suggest he had to go with this style because of lack of attacking options. Clearly he decided this way was more likely to upset the top teams. Personally I don't think this style has yet to beat anybody that Tyrone wouldn't have beaten anyway playing a more open brand of football. It needs to take out one of the big guns to prove this rebuild was the right way to go.

I fear that it will come unstuck again against the Dubs. If Tyrone get ahead I suspect they would once again try to defend the lead and would be reeled back in before the end. If Dublin get ahead this system has previously failed to allow Tyrone to come back. Equally, if it's close in the closing stages I can't see Tyrone committing enough to attack to win. I don't think Tyrone have the ruthlessness of Donegal 2012 and 2014 either. Struggling as such to see how Tyrone can win this game, unless as some have suggested Mickey throws a curveball and goes with a bit more in attack. Certainly the level of performance in the last two games will not be good enough for Tyrone made a lot of poor decisions in attack against Down and Armagh and kicked away a lot of ball. Donegal were poor in the Ulster semi but Tyrone hardly wasted anything in attack that day. Something similar will be required if they are to have a chance here.

Obviously I hope Mickey shows me up to be clueless on the 27th.

I agree with this as well. I think Tyrone have serious forward talent, albeit a bit small perhaps. I just can't see Tyrone winning if they play the way they've been playing. References to Donegal 2014 are irrelevant, Dublin learnt from that and won't be as easily caught. They'll have a plan for players like Peter Harte and Colm Cavanagh and will pose Tyrone way more problems defensively than anyone they've met so far.

Tyrone will definitely cause Dublin more problems than anyone else they've met so far but Dublin know how to beat Donegal 2014 now and unless Tyrone are ultra accurate with every chance they get or get a lucky goal I think they've little chance of winning. A lot needs to go right for Tyrone to win playing with 14 back. They have some chance if they play with more forwards.

Do they?

For all that is said about Dublin learning from Donegal 2014, they haven't played as defensively well organised side since that game in 2014. Tyrone will be the first time they have met something similar to that since 2014.

The only team to beat Dublin under Gavin in Championship football effectively played with 14 men in their own half. Nobody else has beaten them since.

[omaghjoe]

Defo think we have to bring something different to this game, Im not talking about an overhaul of the entire system or anything but something that the Dubs havent seen before to make them think a bit. Something like MClure partnering Bradley upfront with a few high ones pumped in. Probably a bit simplistic but we will need something, Mickey will have it tho I believe that.

Also think we need to target Cian O'Sullivan, he's the steady rock in that defence and other defenders like Small, McMahon, Cooper are a little volatile and if we have their leader under pressure we can perhaps ask a few questions of them in the process.

[BennyHarp]

People are making the mistake of thinking Tyrone leave one man up and just try to seek him out with passes inside and another player is required as a target. Bradley is not a target man, we very rarely use him with passes from deep. His role is to work the defensive line through his movement..a role he does very well. The difference between this current set up and other defensive teams is that in the transition to attack, Tyrone commit players AHEAD of the ball, they aren't just reliant on off the shoulder running, which we do pretty well too. So when Tyrone turn over possession within seconds there will be men up in support of the forward line. Look at the movement of Mulgrew for the goals as an example of this or Colm Cavanagh or even dare I say it Aiden McCrory. Tyrone won't deviate from Plan A. That's not say that Mickey won't have one or two curve balls up his sleeve though!

[Keyser soze]

There aren't too many boys playing the 'cute hoor card' on here that's for sure.

[Redhand Santa]

The usual nonsense is being put out on here and by Jim Gavin that Tyrone play a different games to the Dubs. They play attacking football whereas Tyrone focus on the defensive side of things. In reality both sides play a very similar brand of football. When not in possession they drop most players behind the ball (Dublin at times may leave an extra forward up than Tyrone) and when they win it back they attack in numbers. Tyrone have put more emphasis this year on getting scores when in possession whilst not compromising there defensive structure.

Another myth that always seems to come out when Tyrone go well is that its all based on the system and the players are inferior. Tyrone have developing a number of players this last few years who have become top footballers. If given the choice I would be  happy not switching Harte Donnelly Cavanagh McCann Sludden Hampsey McNamee for their opposite numbers on the Dublin team.

This is going to be a huge battle next week. I hope it doesn't become too defensive and with teams afraid to commit to the attack. I don't think it'll be overly high scoring but could still be a classic like Tyrone Armagh 2005. I believe we have been building towards this for a number of years and have every chance in the game. Too many counties are currently beaten before they take the field against the Dubs but I don't think we will be one of them. The Dubs are a quality proven outfit so it is going to take a mammoth effort to get over the line but we have as good a chance as anyone of beating them.

[Fuzzman]

Which is good to see Keyser and it's good to see lads discussing how they feel the game could go and what they think needs to happen for their team to win. It's just a pity there are not more Dubs on giving their views.
I must have a look later at their thread on Reservoir Dubs.

When I think back of the semifinal in 2009 when Sean Cavanagh went missing and was rumoured sick the night before though some thought he had a falling out with Mickey.
I wonder could this match be the one where he really makes up for that day. He's had a quiet enough season compared to what he used to be like but it wouldn't it be amazing to see him field a big high ball in near the square and turn and hit it into the roof of the net like Murphy v Mayo or Donaghy for Kerry.
People question his legs now but you still see him back in his own FB line mopping up and making tackles in the last 10 minutes of games.

My main hope going into this game is that Tyrone will frustrate the hell out of the Dubs (both players and supporters). They will play very defensively I think for the first 40-50 minutes and then if they need to will take the shackles off. They know they have the tools to hold teams to very low scores if needs be and having attended a lot of Dublin games, the players and fans are not used to that.
They are used to swashbuckling football with crisp fast passes and kicking scores from all over the field but if they are not allowed to do that and are pushed backwards to play across the pitch time and time again and then hit long range shots that go wide then the fans will start getting annoyed.
I remember clearly in the 2014 game against Donegal, Dublin were hitting some amazing long range scores in teh first half and everyone thought this is gonna be a walk over again.
However, they started to miss a few and suddenly the confidence was gone and they felt pressure for the first time that year.

To me this is where this game will be won and lost. I know it sounds simple but if Dublin (or Tyrone) start missing lots of shots from being put under pressure then their mental strength will be tested and can they keep their composure.

Likewise Tyrone created loads of chances last year against Mayo and a few years back in the semi against Kerry but missed a bagful.
When the players feel confident you get players like Ronan O'Neill lobbing the keeper or Mulgrew making his two goals look so easy. O'Gara scored a cracker goal against Westmeath but you would imagine you wont be seeing any goals in this game unless maybe a goalkeeping error.

A few Dublin people I have talked to are worried Gavin will start Connolly and that he could get targeted for some special attention. I can't see him starting and will be a huge impact sub in that 3rd quarter. He will create a huge roar and really lift them.

[omagh_gael]

I believe that we've the players and setup to beat Dublin on the 27th. However, what I am really interested to see is how the team reacts if the first quarter doesn't go according to plan. The big worries are that Dublin grab an early goal, fire over 4-6 long range points that completely by-pass our defensive structure or our running game/attacking movement hit the Dublin defensive wall and falters a la Mayo 2016. Do we drop the heads or stick at it and force our way through? Impossible to tell how things will go but, like others have pointed out, the team appears to have developed significantly this year and there is a definite push towards committing more to the attack versus last year.

The heart is saying we can nick it, however, sober objectivity still has to favour the Dubs by 3-5 points holding us at arms length quite comfortably.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I can't see Connolly starting either - it would be too much of a vote of no confidence in his replacement(s), all for a player that won't last the 70, compared to the impact of his being introduced at some later point.

[yellowcard]

Does anyone know if the U17 final is being televised?

[Syferus]

Does anyone know if the U17 final is being televised?

Nah.

[seafoid]

The usual nonsense is being put out on here and by Jim Gavin that Tyrone play a different games to the Dubs. They play attacking football whereas Tyrone focus on the defensive side of things. In reality both sides play a very similar brand of football. When not in possession they drop most players behind the ball (Dublin at times may leave an extra forward up than Tyrone) and when they win it back they attack in numbers. Tyrone have put more emphasis this year on getting scores when in possession whilst not compromising there defensive structure.

Another myth that always seems to come out when Tyrone go well is that its all based on the system and the players are inferior. Tyrone have developing a number of players this last few years who have become top footballers. If given the choice I would be  happy not switching Harte Donnelly Cavanagh McCann Sludden Hampsey McNamee for their opposite numbers on the Dublin team.

This is going to be a huge battle next week. I hope it doesn't become too defensive and with teams afraid to commit to the attack. I don't think it'll be overly high scoring but could still be a classic like Tyrone Armagh 2005. I believe we have been building towards this for a number of years and have every chance in the game. Too many counties are currently beaten before they take the field against the Dubs but I don't think we will be one of them. The Dubs are a quality proven outfit so it is going to take a mammoth effort to get over the line but we have as good a chance as anyone of beating them.

Tyrone have done nothing yet. I never saw a county with so much advance publicity. All the believers. Jaysus

[RedHand88]

Tyrone have done nothing yet. I never saw a county with so much advance publicity. All the believers. Jaysus

Back to back Ulster titles.... nothing.

[tonto1888]

Tyrone have done nothing yet. I never saw a county with so much advance publicity. All the believers. Jaysus

Back to back Ulster titles.... nothing.

A good achievement but means nothing in the all Ireland really

[seafoid]

Tyrone have done nothing yet. I never saw a county with so much advance publicity. All the believers. Jaysus

Back to back Ulster titles.... nothing.

Big swinging Mickey Harte
A provincial title doesn't mean anything in August.