Tyrone v Dublin - The return of the Jedi

Started by Fuzzman, August 05, 2017, 08:46:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Fuzzman

Very interesting read that Alan Brogan article and can't say I'm surprised by his honest comments that he and most of that team in the 2000s didn't like Tyrone as we showed them very little respect and beat them in some very big games. I remember clearly playing them in our first league match in 2004 as AI champions in Parnell park. They of course gave us a guard of honour but proceeded them to kick the shit out of us which for me was the start of the big hatred between the two teams. You could feel Dublin knew they wanted to lay down a marker and they won quite a dirty game by one point (as they had done the year before at the same venue).
This of course was repeated in 2006 in the battle of Omagh were they again wanted to lay down a marker to the reigning AI champions. For me this was when Dublin started to turn the tide and realise they had to change how they approached games if they were to get back to the top table and apparently they built their whole underage structure based on how Tyrone did things.

How would have thought back in 1995 when Dublin won the All Ireland in dubious circumstances that it would be them NOT Tyrone who would have to wait 16 years before they won another one.
Brogan was part of that 2005 and 2008 team

A lot of Dubs I'd meet would have it in their head that Tyrone have beaten them more times than they have beaten us. They look back at those 3 games in the mid 2000s with very bad memories but in fact Dublin have quite a good record against Tyrone in the championship

1984 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI semi 2.11 - 0.08
1995 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI final  1.10 - 0.12
2005 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  2.18 - 1.14 after a replay
2008 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  3.14 - 1.08
2010 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 1.15 - 0.13
2011 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 0.22 - 0.15

As Brogan and a few others alluded to, there is an element that this Tyrone team want to emulate Dublin now and how the roles are reversed from 10 years ago.





The Trap

Why are people bring league form into it??????
Monaghan almost beat Dublin in the league and Donegal drew with them........they are a different kettle of fish at this time of the year......hopefully Tyrone are a different team from the league also. The reality is nobody knows how these teams will match up and that's why it makes it for such an interesting game. Tyrone might win but they might get hammered, maybe it will be a draw.....hopefully it lives up to its billing and is a fantastic sporting occasion.

RedHand88

Quote from: The Trap on August 11, 2017, 11:27:00 AM
Why are people bring league form into it??????
Monaghan almost beat Dublin in the league and Donegal drew with them........they are a different kettle of fish at this time of the year......hopefully Tyrone are a different team from the league also. The reality is nobody knows how these teams will match up and that's why it makes it for such an interesting game. Tyrone might win but they might get hammered, maybe it will be a draw.....hopefully it lives up to its billing and is a fantastic sporting occasion.

Dont even start that chat!

Fuzzman

I think that's why the Dubs like this match so much as it's been a good few years since we played them and they are excited by the fact that there is an element of the unknown in this game.
I just met a work colleague there (They're all wanting to talk to me this week) and he is very confident they will beat us but he said ye never know and at least he'd rather lose to us than to Kerry or Mayo.

From the Bunker

Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2017, 11:38:39 AM
I think that's why the Dubs like this match so much as it's been a good few years since we played them and they are excited by the fact that there is an element of the unknown in this game.
I just met a work colleague there (They're all wanting to talk to me this week) and he is very confident they will beat us but he said ye never know and at least he'd rather lose to us than to Kerry or Mayo.

Aw isn't that nice?

WT4E

Any dubs I have been talking to have had the attitude of we'll beat you but at least we'll get a bit of a game. Which I am happy to go along with - even though I feel we have a big chance of turning them over.

tonto1888

Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2017, 11:10:07 AM
Very interesting read that Alan Brogan article and can't say I'm surprised by his honest comments that he and most of that team in the 2000s didn't like Tyrone as we showed them very little respect and beat them in some very big games. I remember clearly playing them in our first league match in 2004 as AI champions in Parnell park. They of course gave us a guard of honour but proceeded them to kick the shit out of us which for me was the start of the big hatred between the two teams. You could feel Dublin knew they wanted to lay down a marker and they won quite a dirty game by one point (as they had done the year before at the same venue).
This of course was repeated in 2006 in the battle of Omagh were they again wanted to lay down a marker to the reigning AI champions. For me this was when Dublin started to turn the tide and realise they had to change how they approached games if they were to get back to the top table and apparently they built their whole underage structure based on how Tyrone did things.

How would have thought back in 1995 when Dublin won the All Ireland in dubious circumstances that it would be them NOT Tyrone who would have to wait 16 years before they won another one.
Brogan was part of that 2005 and 2008 team

A lot of Dubs I'd meet would have it in their head that Tyrone have beaten them more times than they have beaten us. They look back at those 3 games in the mid 2000s with very bad memories but in fact Dublin have quite a good record against Tyrone in the championship

1984 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI semi 2.11 - 0.08
1995 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI final  1.10 - 0.12
2005 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  2.18 - 1.14 after a replay
2008 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  3.14 - 1.08
2010 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 1.15 - 0.13
2011 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 0.22 - 0.15

As Brogan and a few others alluded to, there is an element that this Tyrone team want to emulate Dublin now and how the roles are reversed from 10 years ago.

They gave you a guard of honour huh?

tonto1888

Quote from: BennyHarp on August 11, 2017, 08:56:22 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 11, 2017, 08:21:15 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on August 11, 2017, 06:20:47 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 11, 2017, 12:37:49 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on August 11, 2017, 12:30:59 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 11, 2017, 12:08:33 AM
Plámásing of the highest order. You'd know Brogan has Kerry blood in his veins. Mickey Harte has not done it in a while now! And when I say it I mean knocked a serious team off their Perch. This is the type of article that can set you up for a fall.

He hasn't done it in a while indeed but all the while has rebuilding a team to challenge again. The fate of Armagh, Derry, Down, Meath, Cork etc would highlight the job he has done to keep Tyrone competitive when at times we just didn't have the quality to replace what was leaving. He still seems to freak out the Dubs and Kerry. They hold him in exceptionally high esteem and almost expect him to pull a rabbit out of the hat in big games.

The thing that Dublin will face, which they don't face very often, is a team absolutely ravenous to have a go at them. Most teams, especially in Leinster are beaten before a ball is kicked, Tyrone 100% believe they are going to win this game, Mickey, in my view has built a gamelan which he 100% believes will beat them. I have a feeling Dublin will adapt their game to play Tyrone, which would be a mistake and I feel that will be due to the respect they have for a team managed by Mickey.

Do they? Where do they get this belief from? Did they believe they'd beat an average Mayo side last year? Paddy Power have Tyrone at 5/2! Hardly the odds of a team to be afraid of?

I'd say the confidence comes form how Dublin struggled with their system in the two league outings since it was introduced. 1-9 and 0-10 is not what Dublin are used to registering and while it's only league, there's currently no team who defend and frustrate teams to the level Tyrone do right now.

If you're throwing the Mayo thing in from last year, they lost by a point to a side who drew and lost the replay to Dublin by 1 point. Tyrone know they badly underperformed that day yet they still had chances to rescue the game with 14 men. The year before that they cut Kerry through the middle time and time again but in the end pissed away numerous goal chances which should have won them the game.

Tyrone's confidence stems from a huge belief in the system they employ and a belief they are every bit as good as Kerry and Mayo who have tested Dublin.

The way you talk about last year would make someone think Mayo played Tyrone off the pitch and hammered them.

Did Tyrone win either of those games in which Dublin scored 1-9 or 0-10?
Have Tyrone beaten Kerry or Mayo when it counts recently?
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 11, 2017, 08:21:15 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on August 11, 2017, 06:20:47 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 11, 2017, 12:37:49 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on August 11, 2017, 12:30:59 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 11, 2017, 12:08:33 AM
Plámásing of the highest order. You'd know Brogan has Kerry blood in his veins. Mickey Harte has not done it in a while now! And when I say it I mean knocked a serious team off their Perch. This is the type of article that can set you up for a fall.

He hasn't done it in a while indeed but all the while has rebuilding a team to challenge again. The fate of Armagh, Derry, Down, Meath, Cork etc would highlight the job he has done to keep Tyrone competitive when at times we just didn't have the quality to replace what was leaving. He still seems to freak out the Dubs and Kerry. They hold him in exceptionally high esteem and almost expect him to pull a rabbit out of the hat in big games.

The thing that Dublin will face, which they don't face very often, is a team absolutely ravenous to have a go at them. Most teams, especially in Leinster are beaten before a ball is kicked, Tyrone 100% believe they are going to win this game, Mickey, in my view has built a gamelan which he 100% believes will beat them. I have a feeling Dublin will adapt their game to play Tyrone, which would be a mistake and I feel that will be due to the respect they have for a team managed by Mickey.

Do they? Where do they get this belief from? Did they believe they'd beat an average Mayo side last year? Paddy Power have Tyrone at 5/2! Hardly the odds of a team to be afraid of?

I'd say the confidence comes form how Dublin struggled with their system in the two league outings since it was introduced. 1-9 and 0-10 is not what Dublin are used to registering and while it's only league, there's currently no team who defend and frustrate teams to the level Tyrone do right now.

If you're throwing the Mayo thing in from last year, they lost by a point to a side who drew and lost the replay to Dublin by 1 point. Tyrone know they badly underperformed that day yet they still had chances to rescue the game with 14 men. The year before that they cut Kerry through the middle time and time again but in the end pissed away numerous goal chances which should have won them the game.

Tyrone's confidence stems from a huge belief in the system they employ and a belief they are every bit as good as Kerry and Mayo who have tested Dublin.

The way you talk about last year would make someone think Mayo played Tyrone off the pitch and hammered them.

Did Tyrone win either of those games in which Dublin scored 1-9 or 0-10?
Have Tyrone beaten Kerry or Mayo when it counts recently?

I don't know what county you're from Tonto but this is the depressing defeatist attitude that seems to prevail, certainly in Leinster when teams play the likes of Dublin and all over Ireland when teams play Kerry. Ah sure, we didn't beat them last year, we've no chance this year. Thankfully, under Mickey Harte, Tyrone teams, if nothing else, don't have that inferiority complex.

Armagh mate. I think you have a very good team and a good chance of winning. That wasn't the point of my post though. I don't see how bringing up league matches you didn't win gives you the belief of can win. If you do have that belief, and I've no doubt you do, I don't think it comes from league games you didn't win

WT4E

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 11, 2017, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2017, 11:10:07 AM
Very interesting read that Alan Brogan article and can't say I'm surprised by his honest comments that he and most of that team in the 2000s didn't like Tyrone as we showed them very little respect and beat them in some very big games. I remember clearly playing them in our first league match in 2004 as AI champions in Parnell park. They of course gave us a guard of honour but proceeded them to kick the shit out of us which for me was the start of the big hatred between the two teams. You could feel Dublin knew they wanted to lay down a marker and they won quite a dirty game by one point (as they had done the year before at the same venue).
This of course was repeated in 2006 in the battle of Omagh were they again wanted to lay down a marker to the reigning AI champions. For me this was when Dublin started to turn the tide and realise they had to change how they approached games if they were to get back to the top table and apparently they built their whole underage structure based on how Tyrone did things.

How would have thought back in 1995 when Dublin won the All Ireland in dubious circumstances that it would be them NOT Tyrone who would have to wait 16 years before they won another one.
Brogan was part of that 2005 and 2008 team

A lot of Dubs I'd meet would have it in their head that Tyrone have beaten them more times than they have beaten us. They look back at those 3 games in the mid 2000s with very bad memories but in fact Dublin have quite a good record against Tyrone in the championship

1984 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI semi 2.11 - 0.08
1995 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI final  1.10 - 0.12
2005 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  2.18 - 1.14 after a replay
2008 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  3.14 - 1.08
2010 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 1.15 - 0.13
2011 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 0.22 - 0.15

As Brogan and a few others alluded to, there is an element that this Tyrone team want to emulate Dublin now and how the roles are reversed from 10 years ago.

They gave you a guard of honour huh?

Is this not a generally accepted tradition? When all ireland champions play the first league game of the following year the opposing team do this? no? I thought i remember tyrone doing it for someone in the past?

Farrandeelin

Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2017, 10:31:43 AM
I think it's gas the last few years the relationship between most of the Mayo and Tyrone fans and the lack of respect for each other.

Really Fuzzman? I know I don't read too much Tyrone related threads, but I have nothing but respect for you lot. Then again I don't know many Tyrone people to have no respect for them either. Looking forward to this game to be honest. If Tyrone do win, I imagine they will be favourites for the final.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

From the Bunker

Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2017, 10:31:43 AM
I think it's gas the last few years the relationship between most of the Mayo and Tyrone fans and the lack of respect for each other.

I think a lot of Tyrone fans feel Mayo are a good team but are always the nearly men that just don't have what it takes to get over the line. They probably lack that inner self belief that they are good enough which gives you that little bit extra to win out close games rather than draw them.

Mayo fans can't understand Tyrone's arrogance and over confidence when they play teams like them, Kerry and Dublin and why can't they be more realistic in that they've not beaten a top team now for 9 years.
Mayo see themselves as a top 2 or 3 team for a long period of time now and use this term one of the most consistent teams about and they would say Tyrone fans don't give them enough credit for that.

This is what I think anyway and it amuses me again to read some of their posters (and Rossies & others) get annoyed that Tyrone believe they are good enough to beat Dublin.
As Mickey Harte used to say back in the 2000s, if you yourself believe you can do something then you have a good chance that you will succeed. However, if you aren't sure and don't really believe then you are already at a huge disadvantage.
In fairness to Armagh they went into their games against Tyrone in 2003 and 2005 totally believing they were going to win and that very nearly got them over the line.

I have to say I think the exact same about Tyrone the last 6 to 7 years. Like it or hate it, There are a lot of similarities between both teams.

RedHand88

Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 11, 2017, 02:18:49 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2017, 10:31:43 AM
I think it's gas the last few years the relationship between most of the Mayo and Tyrone fans and the lack of respect for each other.

Really Fuzzman? I know I don't read too much Tyrone related threads, but I have nothing but respect for you lot. Then again I don't know many Tyrone people to have no respect for them either. Looking forward to this game to be honest. If Tyrone do win, I imagine they will be favourites for the final.

We're not a bad bunch really. Humble country people like yourselves.

Mayo4Sam14

Quote from: From the Bunker on August 11, 2017, 02:38:02 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2017, 10:31:43 AM
I think it's gas the last few years the relationship between most of the Mayo and Tyrone fans and the lack of respect for each other.

I think a lot of Tyrone fans feel Mayo are a good team but are always the nearly men that just don't have what it takes to get over the line. They probably lack that inner self belief that they are good enough which gives you that little bit extra to win out close games rather than draw them.

Mayo fans can't understand Tyrone's arrogance and over confidence when they play teams like them, Kerry and Dublin and why can't they be more realistic in that they've not beaten a top team now for 9 years.
Mayo see themselves as a top 2 or 3 team for a long period of time now and use this term one of the most consistent teams about and they would say Tyrone fans don't give them enough credit for that.

This is what I think anyway and it amuses me again to read some of their posters (and Rossies & others) get annoyed that Tyrone believe they are good enough to beat Dublin.
As Mickey Harte used to say back in the 2000s, if you yourself believe you can do something then you have a good chance that you will succeed. However, if you aren't sure and don't really believe then you are already at a huge disadvantage.
In fairness to Armagh they went into their games against Tyrone in 2003 and 2005 totally believing they were going to win and that very nearly got them over the line.

I have to say I think the exact same about Tyrone the last 6 to 7 years. Like it or hate it, There are a lot of similarities between both teams.

Theyre right though
You can forget about Sean Cavanagh as far as he's a man!

tonto1888

Quote from: WT4E on August 11, 2017, 02:16:01 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 11, 2017, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2017, 11:10:07 AM
Very interesting read that Alan Brogan article and can't say I'm surprised by his honest comments that he and most of that team in the 2000s didn't like Tyrone as we showed them very little respect and beat them in some very big games. I remember clearly playing them in our first league match in 2004 as AI champions in Parnell park. They of course gave us a guard of honour but proceeded them to kick the shit out of us which for me was the start of the big hatred between the two teams. You could feel Dublin knew they wanted to lay down a marker and they won quite a dirty game by one point (as they had done the year before at the same venue).
This of course was repeated in 2006 in the battle of Omagh were they again wanted to lay down a marker to the reigning AI champions. For me this was when Dublin started to turn the tide and realise they had to change how they approached games if they were to get back to the top table and apparently they built their whole underage structure based on how Tyrone did things.

How would have thought back in 1995 when Dublin won the All Ireland in dubious circumstances that it would be them NOT Tyrone who would have to wait 16 years before they won another one.
Brogan was part of that 2005 and 2008 team

A lot of Dubs I'd meet would have it in their head that Tyrone have beaten them more times than they have beaten us. They look back at those 3 games in the mid 2000s with very bad memories but in fact Dublin have quite a good record against Tyrone in the championship

1984 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI semi 2.11 - 0.08
1995 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI final  1.10 - 0.12
2005 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  2.18 - 1.14 after a replay
2008 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  3.14 - 1.08
2010 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 1.15 - 0.13
2011 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 0.22 - 0.15

As Brogan and a few others alluded to, there is an element that this Tyrone team want to emulate Dublin now and how the roles are reversed from 10 years ago.

They gave you a guard of honour huh?

Is this not a generally accepted tradition? When all ireland champions play the first league game of the following year the opposing team do this? no? I thought i remember tyrone doing it for someone in the past?

Fuzz will, or should, know what I'm referring to

Fear ón Srath Bán

Quote from: WT4E on August 11, 2017, 02:16:01 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 11, 2017, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 11, 2017, 11:10:07 AM
Very interesting read that Alan Brogan article and can't say I'm surprised by his honest comments that he and most of that team in the 2000s didn't like Tyrone as we showed them very little respect and beat them in some very big games. I remember clearly playing them in our first league match in 2004 as AI champions in Parnell park. They of course gave us a guard of honour but proceeded them to kick the shit out of us which for me was the start of the big hatred between the two teams. You could feel Dublin knew they wanted to lay down a marker and they won quite a dirty game by one point (as they had done the year before at the same venue).
This of course was repeated in 2006 in the battle of Omagh were they again wanted to lay down a marker to the reigning AI champions. For me this was when Dublin started to turn the tide and realise they had to change how they approached games if they were to get back to the top table and apparently they built their whole underage structure based on how Tyrone did things.

How would have thought back in 1995 when Dublin won the All Ireland in dubious circumstances that it would be them NOT Tyrone who would have to wait 16 years before they won another one.
Brogan was part of that 2005 and 2008 team

A lot of Dubs I'd meet would have it in their head that Tyrone have beaten them more times than they have beaten us. They look back at those 3 games in the mid 2000s with very bad memories but in fact Dublin have quite a good record against Tyrone in the championship

1984 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI semi 2.11 - 0.08
1995 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI final  1.10 - 0.12
2005 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  2.18 - 1.14 after a replay
2008 Tyrone beat Dublin in an AI 1/4 final  3.14 - 1.08
2010 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 1.15 - 0.13
2011 Dublin beat Tyrone in the AI 1/4 final 0.22 - 0.15

As Brogan and a few others alluded to, there is an element that this Tyrone team want to emulate Dublin now and how the roles are reversed from 10 years ago.

They gave you a guard of honour huh?

Is this not a generally accepted tradition? When all ireland champions play the first league game of the following year the opposing team do this? no? I thought i remember tyrone doing it for someone in the past?

Oh yes, we even did it for the Meath men in an NFL game in Omagh in '97! Then again, we really did have SO much to thank them for, truly (cue Hardy with a "you're welcome"). ;)
Carlsberg don't do Gombeenocracies, but by jaysus if they did...